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MACHINE666
03-27-2013, 07:03 PM
In your opinion, what constitutes "Air Force Dumb"?

My perception is that it is at least these three things:

1. Fraud, Waste and Abuse (especially when it comes to Housing Allowance)

2. Implementing a policy so dumb it defies common sense (aka the Blue Kool-Aid)

3. Getting caught with inappropriate material (drugs, child pornography, firearms, etc)

Of course there's the extra fourth definition which I could add: Sexual Assault, only it's not just Air Force focused...it's DoD wide.

Seems like every few months, whenever I read the Stars & Stripes, or I see the headlines of the Air Force Times, some dumb-ass blue suiter somewhere is getting his or her 15 minutes of shame.


Thoughts? Ideas?

RobotChicken
03-27-2013, 07:24 PM
In your opinion, what constitutes "Air Force Dumb"?

My perception is that it is at least these three things:

1. Fraud, Waste and Abuse (especially when it comes to Housing Allowance)

2. Implementing a policy so dumb it defies common sense (aka the Blue Kool-Aid)

3. Getting caught with inappropriate material (drugs, child pornography, firearms, etc)

Of course there's the extra fourth definition which I could add: Sexual Assault, only it's not just Air Force focused...it's DoD wide.

Seems like every few months, whenever I read the Stars & Stripes, or I see the headlines of the Air Force Times, some dumb-ass blue suiter somewhere is getting his or her 15 minutes of shame.


Thoughts? Ideas?
:evil A 'Drone' without 'Nose Art' less it offend one's enemy for starters after it blows them to..opps. cant say that either.:frusty

SomeRandomGuy
03-27-2013, 07:39 PM
In your opinion, what constitutes "Air Force Dumb"?

My perception is that it is at least these three things:

1. Fraud, Waste and Abuse (especially when it comes to Housing Allowance)

2. Implementing a policy so dumb it defies common sense (aka the Blue Kool-Aid)

3. Getting caught with inappropriate material (drugs, child pornography, firearms, etc)

Of course there's the extra fourth definition which I could add: Sexual Assault, only it's not just Air Force focused...it's DoD wide.

Seems like every few months, whenever I read the Stars & Stripes, or I see the headlines of the Air Force Times, some dumb-ass blue suiter somewhere is getting his or her 15 minutes of shame.


Thoughts? Ideas?

The BAH fraud one is definitly more than just AF wide. In fact at one location we helped in process Army people and they were a lot worse (granted there are more of them). I even started my briefing off by telling people that you are not the first to try BAH fraud and I am not stupid. Yet people would sit in that briefing 10 minutes after I told them that and certify their BAH form knowing it was false. That is totally ridiculous. It would be like being drunk at a bar and someone warns you that a DUI checkpoint is just down the road. Instead of calling a cab instead you hop in your car and try to drive through the checkpoint because you think you can beat it.

OtisRNeedleman
03-27-2013, 08:42 PM
Dumb is making decisions about systems acquisition-related matters on the basis of politics instead of logic.

Quixotic
03-27-2013, 09:30 PM
In your opinion, what constitutes "Air Force Dumb"?

Dare I say it,

REFLECTIVE BELTS!

Robert F. Dorr
03-27-2013, 09:32 PM
MQ-1B, MC-12W, C-27J

Sperry1989
03-27-2013, 09:43 PM
MQ-1B, MC-12W, C-27J

Bob...you forgot the F-35 but then again that would be a failure at the DoD level.

MajesticThunder
03-27-2013, 10:38 PM
Dare I say it,

REFLECTIVE BELTS!

+1. Classic Air Force Dumb is over diligence and zealous enforcement of reflective belts.

Work of art Air Force Dumber is … not having one mandated, unvarying, identical, recognized, “uniform” reflective belt color and design to standardize appearance and take full advantage of safety logic.

Inconsistent safety reflective belt mishmash is symbolic of underlying not thought through Air Force Dumb accepted wisdom.

Quixotic
03-27-2013, 10:46 PM
Work of art Air Force Dumber is … not having one mandated, unvarying, identical, recognized, “uniform” reflective belt color and design to standardize appearance and take full advantage of safety logic.


That, and not having one standard color often sends a confusing message about the sexual orientation of any given AF formation.

JD2780
03-27-2013, 11:12 PM
F-22 F-16 F-15C B-1 B-2 B-52. B-Dorr Schwartz, Roy

giggawatt
03-28-2013, 06:57 AM
F-22 F-16 F-15C B-1 B-2 B-52. B-Dorr Schwartz, Roy

notsureifsrs.jpg

JD2780
03-28-2013, 09:16 AM
notsureifsrs.jpg

Didnt work

giggawatt
03-28-2013, 10:28 AM
Didnt work

That's why jokey! Read the file name.

JD2780
03-28-2013, 10:32 AM
The srs part is what got me. It was 515 and I'm out of coffee. Forgive me. And no I'm not srs

BOSS302
03-28-2013, 11:36 AM
Air Force dumb: throwing money into two 5th-Gen fighters; one of which apparently chokes its pilots to death and is too delicate to field in a deployed environment; the other is barely superior to the fighters/attack aircraft it is replacing (and inferior in some respects) but costs a ridiculous amount more. Meanwhile, the US Air Force looks the other way while Saudi Arabia, South Korea, and Israel take delivery of freshly-made F-15s with near-5th Gen capabilities that cost a 1/3 of an F-22 Money Vampire.

Air Force dumb: putting emphasis (and blame) on "Wingmen" instead of the perpetrators when those idiots act like idiots and get in trouble.

Air Force dumb: still pouring money into a Mogas (unleaded) vehicle fleet instead of investing in more efficient, more durable diesel vehicles.

Air Force dumb: paying millions of dollars for "energy savings studies", paying millions of dollars for "energy saving devices and equipment" instead of starting simple at the facility and user level.

Air Force dumb: paying thousands upon thousands of dollars to train an airman in their Air Force Specialty Code, then tell that same airman upon entering the operational world that, "You must not focus on being a technical expert but instead you must focus on schooling, volunteering, and other activities that complete the 'whole person concept'". Pay to train technical experts, end up with confused generalists with misplaced priorities and a sense of entitlement that rivals civilian welfare recipients.

TREYSLEDGE
03-28-2013, 12:34 PM
Air Force dumb: Putting pilots in leadership positions they shouldn't be. i.e., assigning pilots as Mission Support Group Commanders.

thread_cop
03-28-2013, 12:57 PM
I may be a little confused but I was under the impression this thread was about stupid shit airmen that will most likely get them in trouble but they think they can get away with anyway, not the stupid shit the Air Force does.

SomeRandomGuy
03-28-2013, 01:14 PM
Definition of AF Dumb: Finance Processing Center at Ellsworth

Thunderhorse19
03-28-2013, 01:47 PM
It is very dumb for the Air Force to put non-rated military intelligence agents in leadership positions they shouldn't be, i.e. assigning an MI agent to be a Wing Commander of an operational aviation Wing.

I concur: It is also very dumb for the Air Force to put pilots in leadership positions they shouldn't be. i.e., assigning pilots as Mission Support Group Commanders.

It is also very dumb for the Air Force to play musical chairs with their H-1 Huey helicopters. Why is the Air Force still pursuing the 1950's model HH-47 Chinook's?

TREYSLEDGE
03-28-2013, 01:56 PM
It is very dumb for the Air Force to put non-rated military intelligence agents in leadership positions they shouldn't be, i.e. assigning an MI agent to be a Wing Commander of an operational aviation Wing.

Where did this happen?

JD2780
03-28-2013, 01:57 PM
Air Force dumb: Putting pilots in leadership positions they shouldn't be. i.e., assigning pilots as Mission Support Group Commanders.

Where else are the thousands of light birds going to command. In a fighter squadron you throw a rock and hit 5 Lt Cols.

JD2780
03-28-2013, 01:59 PM
AF dumb- putting a female 1st sgt at a unit that is home to an all male careerfield.

Silverback15
03-28-2013, 02:06 PM
I can't believe it's made it to page 3 without being mentioned: CBT's

SomeRandomGuy
03-28-2013, 02:36 PM
AF dumb- putting a female 1st sgt at a unit that is home to an all male careerfield.

I might even go one further on this. If it can be avoided it is probably a good idea not to put a "boots on the ground" person as the 1st Sgt for an "office weenie" AFSC. That never works out well either. Also still a bad idea if it goes the other way too. Someone who made a career out of pushing paper probably shouldn't be the shirt for a red horse squadron.

EDIT: Thought of one more. Just about anything a new Lt. from the AF Academy says or does. For example I had a friend who was told to stand guard for a secure server during an exercise. He was standing guard behind a locked armored door in a secure room. The Lt. insisted he must stand there with his M16 even when the Amn explained that if the base is over run and they manage to bust through this armored door it is not going to do me much good to try and stop them with just this little M16.

JD2780
03-28-2013, 04:22 PM
I might even go one further on this. If it can be avoided it is probably a good idea not to put a "boots on the ground" person as the 1st Sgt for an "office weenie" AFSC. That never works out well either. Also still a bad idea if it goes the other way too. Someone who made a career out of pushing paper probably shouldn't be the shirt for a red horse squadron.

EDIT: Thought of one more. Just about anything a new Lt. from the AF Academy says or does. For example I had a friend who was told to stand guard for a secure server during an exercise. He was standing guard behind a locked armored door in a secure room. The Lt. insisted he must stand there with his M16 even when the Amn explained that if the base is over run and they manage to bust through this armored door it is not going to do me much good to try and stop them with just this little M16.

100% correct in everything you said.

MACHINE666
03-28-2013, 07:11 PM
Another Air Force Dumb: New NCOIC of a section blindly changes everything without first seeing what does and does not work. This includes the physical rearrangement of office furniture too.

MACHINE666
03-28-2013, 07:27 PM
Air Force dumb: Putting pilots in leadership positions they shouldn't be. i.e., assigning pilots as Mission Support Group Commanders.

The same applies to putting nurses in charge as commanders of entire Med Groups. The average nurse (to include flight nurse), doesn't have the slightest clue about the mission of the Air Force....most of them sit on their fat asses for 12 hours on a ward, and make whatever idiot 4N is working along side them do all the dirty work...taking vitals, changing bed pans, starting IV's, etc. Ask a nurse in charge of a Med Group what the flying mission and line mission consists of, and they will stare at you with a doe-eyed response. I've seen it happen all too often, too.

Flight surgeons, on the other hand, traditionally ran Med Groups BECAUSE they were so intricately a part of the Air Force mission...even that has sadly changed. Now most physicians avoid becoming part of the 48G series, since they view having to maintain flying hours and squadron duties as a pain in the ass. I can't even remember the last time I saw a doctor in a flight suit worthy of the "flight surgeon" title....but I digress....

Pueblo
03-28-2013, 07:32 PM
The BAH fraud one is definitly more than just AF wide. In fact at one location we helped in process Army people and they were a lot worse (granted there are more of them). I even started my briefing off by telling people that you are not the first to try BAH fraud and I am not stupid. Yet people would sit in that briefing 10 minutes after I told them that and certify their BAH form knowing it was false. That is totally ridiculous. It would be like being drunk at a bar and someone warns you that a DUI checkpoint is just down the road. Instead of calling a cab instead you hop in your car and try to drive through the checkpoint because you think you can beat it.

How does one commit BAH fraud? I would think the AF would know pertinent details (marital status, zip code) so how is this attempted?

Pueblo
03-28-2013, 07:36 PM
AF dumb- putting a female 1st sgt at a unit that is home to an all male careerfield.

Is there a physical expectation placed on an ASOS's Shirt? If so, you may be right if she can't meet physical standards. If not, I don't see why a female is less capable of performing the duties of a first sergeant than a male, regardless of the SQ.

RobotChicken
03-28-2013, 07:44 PM
:spy How about multi-purpose 'fighter A/C' and requisitioning numbers below what is available now that is still not enough;the 'F-117A' was not a fighter,it was a 'light bomber'. Multi-mission never worked,and still will not today. The USAF was short of A/C in 'Desert Storm' when we had a strong A/F with high airman numbers. AF leaders then said they could win the war alone without help! :tsk

SomeRandomGuy
03-28-2013, 07:53 PM
How does one commit BAH fraud? I would think the AF would know pertinent details (marital status, zip code) so how is this attempted?

Mostly only pertains to people overseas. In certain situations your BAH is based on your dependant's location. Some people will send their dependants to their home of record or next base but still claim they reside at the last base. Sometimes they do the opposite depending on which BAH rate is higher. Either way when you in process you are supposed to fill out an AF594 and list their zip code.

Another option is people who get divorced (not paying child support) yet never let finance know so they will continue to collect BAH.

The third and final option is one of my favorites made famous by the former finance superintendant at Keesler AFB. He lived in government provided housing for free and also collected BAH from 2007 to 2009. His "I didn't know any better" defense was kind of worthless considering his previous awards as outstanding comptroller.

http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2010/05/airforce_morrison_052010w

RobotChicken
03-28-2013, 08:17 PM
Mostly only pertains to people overseas. In certain situations your BAH is based on your dependant's location. Some people will send their dependants to their home of record or next base but still claim they reside at the last base. Sometimes they do the opposite depending on which BAH rate is higher. Either way when you in process you are supposed to fill out an AF594 and list their zip code.

Another option is people who get divorced (not paying child support) yet never let finance know so they will continue to collect BAH.

The third and final option is one of my favorites made famous by the former finance superintendant at Keesler AFB. He lived in government provided housing for free and also collected BAH from 2007 to 2009. His "I didn't know any better" defense was kind of worthless considering his previous awards as outstanding comptroller.

http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2010/05/airforce_morrison_052010w

:bump In his picture he looks like he was 'smiling all the way to the bank'. And what do I dare ask was his final outcome? :hug

SomeRandomGuy
03-28-2013, 08:25 PM
:bump In his picture he looks like he was 'smiling all the way to the bank'. And what do I dare ask was his final outcome? :hug

I actually have no idea on the outcome. I was not stationed at Keelser but it does happen to be the place that hosts finance tech school. After this happened they were wondering how people within the squadron let him get away with it. There are about four different reports that get done quarterly to make sure people within finance are not commiting fraud. Those reports sometimes get pencil whipped but ultimately the Financial Services Officer signs off that they are good to go. I would sure hate to be the people who were responsible for those reports.


They pretty much assumed the whole squadron was colluding and everyone got audited. It was not fun times around there for a while. I wish I could find information on his sentence though. Maybe someone here knows how to do that.

BOSS302
03-28-2013, 08:38 PM
I actually have no idea on the outcome. I was not stationed at Keelser but it does happen to be the place that hosts finance tech school. After this happened they were wondering how people within the squadron let him get away with it. They pretty much assumed the whole squadron was colluding and everyone got audited. It was not fun times around there for a while. I wish I could find information on his sentence though. Maybe someone here knows how to do that.

Interesting. He was charged in late 2009. A Google search on "Chief Master Sergeant James A Morrison Jr." returns a "Retirement List February 2011" published in the Air Force Times that shows a "Senior Master Sergeant James A. Morrison Jr." as having retired. Hmm...

Mr. Happy
03-28-2013, 08:40 PM
Air Force Dumb - Harrassing people over fitness failures who are separating or retiring within a few months.

SomeRandomGuy
03-28-2013, 08:41 PM
Interesting. He was charged in late 2009. A Google search on "Chief Master Sergeant James A Morrison Jr." returns a "Retirement List February 2011" published in the Air Force Times that shows a "Senior Master Sergeant James A. Morrison Jr." as having retired. Hmm...

Well I guess that answers that question. Also maybe that puts an end to the enlisted/officer punishment debate. Sometimes enlisted do get the hook up it just never gets publicized.

RobotChicken
03-28-2013, 08:44 PM
:panda Being in his position; he pulled an 'FBI Hoover' for a 'get out of jail free card'; as in had the goods on higher ups with all the money trails....smart way to go. :tea

efmbman
03-28-2013, 09:07 PM
The same applies to putting nurses in charge as commanders of entire Med Groups.

Sadly, that is not exclusively "dumb" only in the Air Force. The Army is dumb like that, too.

RobotChicken
03-28-2013, 09:18 PM
Sadly, that is not exclusively "dumb" only in the Air Force. The Army is dumb like that, too.
:doh 'A different kind of dumb;trust me on that!:frusty

JD2780
03-29-2013, 12:13 PM
Is there a physical expectation placed on an ASOS's Shirt? If so, you may be right if she can't meet physical standards. If not, I don't see why a female is less capable of performing the duties of a first sergeant than a male, regardless of the SQ.

Maybe it was just this one. She despised all of us. Every male shirt I had would ruck with us. Granted he would be slower and have less weight but we didnt care. We were happy to see him. She wouldn't do anything like that. She prided herself on hassling us. We come back from 3 days in the field and she starts coming unglued because of our uniforms. She didnt belong there.

coldmkay
03-29-2013, 12:18 PM
Air Force Dumb?

The ABU. Vanity Patterns have to be one of the worst things the DoD has ever allowed. Besides CBTs that is.

Pullinteeth
03-29-2013, 06:46 PM
Mostly only pertains to people overseas. In certain situations your BAH is based on your dependant's location. Some people will send their dependants to their home of record or next base but still claim they reside at the last base. Sometimes they do the opposite depending on which BAH rate is higher. Either way when you in process you are supposed to fill out an AF594 and list their zip code.

Another option is people who get divorced (not paying child support) yet never let finance know so they will continue to collect BAH.

The third and final option is one of my favorites made famous by the former finance superintendant at Keesler AFB. He lived in government provided housing for free and also collected BAH from 2007 to 2009. His "I didn't know any better" defense was kind of worthless considering his previous awards as outstanding comptroller.

http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2010/05/airforce_morrison_052010w

Don't forget the one made famous before DADT ended...the lesbians that were living togther collecting BAH with dependents based upon at least ones marriage to a dude...

SomeRandomGuy
03-29-2013, 07:38 PM
Don't forget the one made famous before DADT ended...the lesbians that were living togther collecting BAH with dependents based upon at least ones marriage to a dude...

Oh yeah I definitly remember those. Nothing suspicious at all about two women with short spiked hair dropping by finance to update their marriages. Of course they are married to en but since they are best friends they do everything together including stopping by finance.

Most of those people were easy to find though. Just cross reference LES/W2 addresses to find actual residences. Most of the time you would find 4 gay friends (2 male, 2 female) married to each other but the two men live togther and the two women live together. It was even easier sometimes when gay people were sharing a bank account. That was always an awkward conversation, "Hi, this is SomeRandomGuy from finance. Are you aware that your direct deposit account is the same as another military member?" .....................Oh, yes! of course that is my best friend................"Umm, you share a bank account with your best friend?

MACHINE666
04-01-2013, 05:34 PM
Air Force Dumb: Superceding an AFI by making it stricter than what's necessary.

Overheard conversation from one of my tours at Kunsan, 2001 timeframe:

(Background is the Paradise Club, A-Town on a Friday night. New Dress and Appearance change released earlier in the week allows for male airmen to wear ear rings out of uniform, off base)

Shirt: Hey airman, you need to remove your ear ring. You're can't have that in.

Airman: Sir, the new Dress and Appearance AFI says we can wear one off base, out of uniform.

Shirt: Do it because I said so.

Airman complies, only to have The Wolf address this very issue within the following week, saying that he approves of the new AFI change.

TVANSCOT
04-04-2013, 06:06 PM
Duct tape on your helmet. Nothing dumber.

imported_CLSE
04-04-2013, 06:19 PM
Why is the Air Force still pursuing the 1950's model HH-47 Chinook's?

Because it's a much better helicopter for the mission - More room inside, more speed, more range, more power and a large supply of spare parts easily available around the world in a pinch.

The age of the design is a non-issue, just like the A-10, the basic design is about perfect for what it's supposed to do. You can upgrade and add individual parts as they become available, but there isn't much in the basic design that you could change to significantly improve it's capabilities.

I spent 8 years in a rescue unit, on more than one occasion we were able to get parts for our HH-60s from co-located Army units.

Another problem is that the HH-60s are pigs with the way that they are configured. It's no secret that in full combat configuration, they are taking off at nearly the designed max gross weight. The creates a whole slew of problems.

The Sikorsky offering is basically a bigger, fatter version of the HH-60 with slightly uprated engines and transmission and a 5-bladed main rotor. The net result would be a helicopter with the same problems as the HH-60s have now.

The Lockheed offering (UH-101) is a nice design, basically a modern version of the H-3 with a third engine, so it's got more power, but the type has had some serious problems, to the point where the Canadians quit flying them as a result. More importantly, the engines are probably the only parts on it that are common to any other airframe in the inventory.

The Air Force dumb part of the system: Air Force supply regs say that if the Air Force supply system has a part, we have to use that part, regardless of where it is.

Why it's dumb: We were in Turkey and needed a main rotor blade for a helicopter that was there to provide CSAR support for ONW. The Army has a whole hell of a lot of UH-60 main rotor blades right up in Europe, the same blades we use.

Instead of getting one of those, Air Force supply found a main rotor blade in Korea. They put it on a C-5 to Travis, transferred it to a truck, which took over a week to drive it cross-country to Dover. There, it was put on a C-5 and flown to Ramstein, where it got stuck for a week because of higher-priority cargo. It finally got to Turkey a full month after we ordered it.

Sergeant eNYgma
04-04-2013, 06:22 PM
The garbage ass ABU itself...

Banned
04-05-2013, 08:46 PM
Don't worry AF guys... could be a lot worse.

Marine Corps dumb:

- Fucking the neighbor's dog.

-Getting a female Marine in your unit pregnant, who alleges you raped her, kill her in your living room, bury her in the back yard, and think no one will notice.

-Pee on dead bodies, post it on youtube, think you won't get in trouble.

-Post a photo of everybody grinning in front of an SS flag, think you won't get in trouble.

-Post a video of you throwing a puppy off a cliff, think you won't get in trouble.

-Get into a minor fender bender on base, scream at the top of your lungs until you get arrested. Act surprised when you get arrested.

-Beat your wife with a hammer.

-Steal a million dollars worth of expended brass, think no one will notice.

-Smuggle AK-47s back home from deployment. Get caught.

-Smoke hashish of questionable origins on deployment. Go into a coma.

-Smoke spice in the barracks. Walk into the duty office and throw up.

-Smoke spice, low crawl down the catwalk in your boxers.

-Pee off the catwalk.

BOSS302
04-06-2013, 05:57 AM
Don't worry AF guys... could be a lot worse.

Marine Corps dumb:

- Fucking the neighbor's dog.

-Smoke spice, low crawl down the catwalk in your boxers.

-Pee off the catwalk.

Sounds a lot like the behavior of a GS-11 Civilian Airman.

imported_blacksheep1208
04-06-2013, 08:51 AM
Duct tape on your helmet. Nothing dumber.

A little piece of me dies inside each time I see that. We look like such clowns covering helmets in duct tape. I'm sure someone will say that Name, Rank, and AFSC isn't enough though. Soon we'll have to write our twitter handle or something else dumb on there.

El Kabong
04-06-2013, 09:47 AM
A little piece of me dies inside each time I see that. We look like such clowns covering helmets in duct tape. I'm sure someone will say that Name, Rank, and AFSC isn't enough though. Soon we'll have to write our twitter handle or something else dumb on there.

and writing m-9 on the duct or masking tape on your sleeves and pant legs of chem gear. do you still do that? that's like writing 5.56 NATO FMJ or tracer on your blanks.

imported_blacksheep1208
04-06-2013, 10:34 AM
and writing m-9 on the duct or masking tape on your sleeves and pant legs of chem gear. do you still do that? that's like writing 5.56 NATO FMJ or tracer on your blanks.

Yup that's also still done. I don't see why they don't use the expired stuff so people know what the real stuff will be like. Or actually wear the plates in the body armor. Or keep people at their duty location for the entire week instead of them going home after their shift is over. Wait..that'd make sense. Never mind.

MACHINE666
04-06-2013, 09:53 PM
A little piece of me dies inside each time I see that. We look like such clowns covering helmets in duct tape. I'm sure someone will say that Name, Rank, and AFSC isn't enough though. Soon we'll have to write our twitter handle or something else dumb on there.

Hash tags seem to be all the new rage for some reason. #Fucking#Hate#Hashtags.