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View Full Version : CMSAF Cody Coming. What questions should we ask him?



Drackore
03-21-2013, 05:28 AM
Got word that he's coming to a base that I will be at. I'll also get a shot at meeting him and he's having an All Call.

What would some of you all like me to ask him?

Airman of Darkness
03-21-2013, 05:37 AM
Got word that he's coming to a base that I will be at. I'll also get a shot at meeting him and he's having an All Call.

What would some of you all like me to ask him?

how about you ask him what ever HAPPENED TO THE MISSION and why are we FOCUSING ON PT TESTS AND EDUCATION AND OTHER STUSFF when it is THE MISSION THAT MATTERS!

how about you ask him when is the last time he went to GIT R DUN, when is the last time he actually DID IT TO IT?!?!

YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :flame :flame :flame :flame :flame :flame :flame

http://www.ammoland.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/AmmoLands-America-Hell-Yeah.jpg

imported_Renazance
03-21-2013, 05:38 AM
Ask him why he didn't put up a fight to save our TA.

imported_ManOSteel
03-21-2013, 05:54 AM
Ask him if he thinks the military has gotten to big/bureaucratic with too many administrators (ie people who "manage" but don't really "do" much). Have we lost focus of our core defense competencies by growing into a massive organization that does things with no direct connection to national defense like running crappy stores and massive (crappy) hospitals in which loads of uninspired uniformed staff provide services with no clear relation to war fighting. Ask him if we have too many general officers and chiefs. Have some balls, brother.

CrustySMSgt
03-21-2013, 05:58 AM
Ask him why he didn't put up a fight to save our TA.

Didn't know someone else was in the room when that went down. Please explain to us how it went. Don't need a full transcript, a "Reader's Digest" version will do.

imported_Renazance
03-21-2013, 06:38 AM
Didn't know someone else was in the room when that went down. Please explain to us how it went. Don't need a full transcript, a "Reader's Digest" version will do.

I would like to know how it went down as well. He might have put up a fight, he might have not. But from our perspective, taking away ALL of our TA so suddenly just makes it look like he gave in too quickly. The perception of him looking out for us would have been greater if he would have compromised with 75% or even 50% TA.

Robert F. Dorr
03-21-2013, 06:46 AM
Didn't know someone else was in the room when that went down. Please explain to us how it went. Don't need a full transcript, a "Reader's Digest" version will do.

Maybe there's something symbolic in the fact that Reader's Digest, once the strongest magazine in the world, is bankrupt. Good metaphor for the Air Force and the nation. Doubt Chief Cody could've done much about TA.

CrustySMSgt
03-21-2013, 07:35 AM
I would like to know how it went down as well. He might have put up a fight, he might have not. But from our perspective, taking away ALL of our TA so suddenly just makes it look like he gave in too quickly. The perception of him looking out for us would have been greater if he would have compromised with 75% or even 50% TA.

Given the two other services that cut TA also cut 100%, it would seem this was a non-negotiable order. Would be interested to know what the Navy cut to keep theirs.

Drackore
03-21-2013, 10:06 AM
So any serious questions?

imported_KnuckleDragger
03-21-2013, 10:18 AM
Is there guidance on the RABUs being sold at Clothing Sales?

imported_Renazance
03-21-2013, 10:31 AM
Given the two other services that cut TA also cut 100%, it would seem this was a non-negotiable order. Would be interested to know what the Navy cut to keep theirs.

Obviously if the Navy has kept their TA so far, it is a negotiable order. Perhaps we could have cut something else to keep ours.

Chief_KO
03-21-2013, 11:59 AM
First off, highly doubtful you will get a one-on-one with the CMSAF. Typically the All Call environments are scripted by the Wg/CCC with questions submitted and approved in advance. Same with enlisted breakfasts, etc.

So, Here is what I would ask: "Given the environment the Air Force has been in for the last 10 years or more; a constant deployment cycle, increasing ops tempo, more and more "non-traditional" taskings, eroding or changing benefits, threats of base closures, joint basing, multi-billion dollar weapons/IT programs that fail before launch, gutting of personnel support programs, etc. it is very easy for an Airman to lose faith in the system (or live the core value of Service before Self). Other than staying in to receive a retirement check, what why would someone consider making the Air Force a career?"

Shrike
03-21-2013, 12:41 PM
Got word that he's coming to a base that I will be at. I'll also get a shot at meeting him and he's having an All Call.

What would some of you all like me to ask him?
Is the Air Force ever planning on getting back to valuing job performance in its enlisted corps?

Sergeant eNYgma
03-21-2013, 01:49 PM
Ask if he'll be a bum like Roy was...

tiredretiredE7
03-21-2013, 02:07 PM
Got word that he's coming to a base that I will be at. I'll also get a shot at meeting him and he's having an All Call.

What would some of you all like me to ask him?

How is the AF going to be reimbursed for the ILO mission support to the Army?

sandsjames
03-21-2013, 03:39 PM
Ask how leaders plan on making it clear to their greedy, entitled troops that being in the Air Force is about the mission. School and stuff is nice, but not a necessity. Ask him if he thinks, with recent bitching, that "service before self" still (or ever) means anything.

MACHINE666
03-21-2013, 07:46 PM
Ask him what he thinks about Fa-Fa-Fini!



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EronVtKYr0c


Is Fa-Fa-Fini better than you?!?

:D :D :D :D :D

Pullinteeth
03-21-2013, 07:52 PM
Dang! Ya'll are trying to get this dude canned.... I would say just STFU because if history is any indication, if you ask a real question, you aren't likely to get a real answer anyway...

Mr. Happy
03-22-2013, 12:05 AM
Got word that he's coming to a base that I will be at. I'll also get a shot at meeting him and he's having an All Call.

What would some of you all like me to ask him?

Ask him why the Air Force feels the need to reward enlisted people a medal every 3 years for simply behaving. Since officers aren't awarded this medal, does that mean expectations are lower for enlisted people?

Ask him why the AF mandates a referral EPR for a fitness failure due to being short one push-up or 1 second on a run, but a person can fail QA spot-checks, fail CDCs, lose certifications, etc and be good to go with no referral. Has the point been made clear enough the last decade on fitness to maybe reign in the Air Force's obsession with it once and for all? I would mention to him the general consensus is the program has been over-emphasized to such a point that fitness has a negative connotation associated with it whenever it is mentioned. It's a program of fear, not a program that motivates healthier lifestyles...all because of the Air Force's approach and mentality in regards to it.

Ask him what he hopes to accomplish during his tenure. What legacy does he wish to leave?

CrustySMSgt
03-22-2013, 07:11 AM
Ask him why the AF mandates a referral EPR for a fitness failure due to being short one push-up or 1 second on a run, but a person can fail QA spot-checks, fail CDCs, lose certifications, etc and be good to go with no referral.

What legacy does he wish to leave?

I asked him your first question when he was here. There is no real way to answer that question with a straight face, because the answer is obvious... it was the "thing of the day" and has spiraled out of control. You can't rationally justify why it is held so far above the every other standard. I can see why it ended up being what it is, because despite all the "encouragement," after 5-6 years of having a "PT program," very few, from CCs down to Amn took it seriously. So they were still blowing off fitness, falsifying tests, and taking ZERO action against those who had 4, 5, 6, or more failures. I think we are over that hump and need to look at ways of encouraging fitness instead of holding a knife to our throats and threatening us with the consequences of failure.


I do like the last suggestion. As he looks forward to his tenure, what are his benchmarks for success and when he gets to the end, what will he be happy if he's accomplished?

Shrike
03-22-2013, 01:10 PM
Ask him why the Air Force feels the need to reward enlisted people a medal every 3 years for simply behaving. Since officers aren't awarded this medal, does that mean expectations are lower for enlisted people?

Ask him why the AF mandates a referral EPR for a fitness failure due to being short one push-up or 1 second on a run, but a person can fail QA spot-checks, fail CDCs, lose certifications, etc and be good to go with no referral. Has the point been made clear enough the last decade on fitness to maybe reign in the Air Force's obsession with it once and for all? I would mention to him the general consensus is the program has been over-emphasized to such a point that fitness has a negative connotation associated with it whenever it is mentioned. It's a program of fear, not a program that motivates healthier lifestyles...all because of the Air Force's approach and mentality in regards to it.

Ask him what he hopes to accomplish during his tenure. What legacy does he wish to leave?
That's a great way to sum up the program.

wxjumper
03-22-2013, 01:24 PM
Got word that he's coming to a base that I will be at. I'll also get a shot at meeting him and he's having an All Call.

What would some of you all like me to ask him?

Don't worry, if he is anything like the last CMSAF, you won't be able to ask him anything. Only a few select people will get to ask already prepared questions.

CrustySMSgt
03-22-2013, 01:30 PM
Don't worry, if he is anything like the last CMSAF, you won't be able to ask him anything. Only a few select people will get to ask already prepared questions.

Both (and their bosses) have been through here since I've been here. Neither had questions screened or pre-submitted prior to their all-calls.

Pullinteeth
03-22-2013, 01:52 PM
Don't worry, if he is anything like the last CMSAF, you won't be able to ask him anything. Only a few select people will get to ask already prepared questions.

That isn't true...I saw the last CMSAF and he was asked questions by those in the audience-no pre-screening. If it was a tough question, he just rambled about something else until he thought he took up enough time and went on to the next question....

Shrike
03-22-2013, 02:01 PM
That isn't true...I saw the last CMSAF and he was asked questions by those in the audience-no pre-screening. If it was a tough question, he just rambled about something else until he thought he took up enough time and went on to the next question....
You mean he answered like a politician? I'm shocked! :biggrin

Monkey
03-22-2013, 02:23 PM
That isn't true...I saw the last CMSAF and he was asked questions by those in the audience-no pre-screening. If it was a tough question, he just rambled about something else until he thought he took up enough time and went on to the next question....

No matter what you ask, you will get a canned answer. It may take a few sentences to spin your question in a way that fits the canned answer, but you will never hear a direct answer to any question you give. It can be a lot of fun to watch when you know it's going to happen.

Mr. Happy
03-22-2013, 04:52 PM
Perhaps if you get him behind closed doors, in the dark by candlelight, you may get a half canned answer.

It would be great to have his ear "off-line" to ask some candid questions and maybe get no BS answers. The nature of his position simply does not afford him the ability to say what HE thinks about topics personally to a point, so he has to speak on behalf of the CSAF when addressing this stuff to gatherings of people. Pretty much giving "big picture" type answers.

BigBaze
03-22-2013, 11:37 PM
If anyone thinks they will get any direct answer, keep dreaming. Like the previous posters stated, you'll get some canned response, or he'll just go off on a tangent so that when he is finished, everyone is so confused, that they'll move onto the next questions. Bottom line (or BLUF for you E9 types)..he is going to just regurgitate the vision of the CSAF. But at least we won't waste more time of our already full duty day by attending another useless "All Call" where the Command Chief thanks everyone for attending the mandatory formation. At the end of the day, nothing will change. PT and education will take precedence over any kind of job proficiency.

Capt Alfredo
03-23-2013, 12:53 AM
I can see why it ended up being what it is, because despite all the "encouragement," after 5-6 years of having a "PT program," very few, from CCs down to Amn took it seriously. So they were still blowing off fitness, falsifying tests, and taking ZERO action against those who had 4, 5, 6, or more failures.

Let us assume that what you say is true. How many missions failed due to this lack of "PT seriousness"? How many planes fell from the sky because the pilot only could do 21 push-ups? How many bombs hit the wrong target because the person who drafted the target folder ate too many bagels the morning she took her PT test? How many Airmen died on convoy duty because their sit-up scores were pencil-whipped? I'm guessing the answer is zero. Smarter, not harder, that was the Air Force culture I remember. RIP.

DWWSWWD
03-23-2013, 01:28 AM
[QUOTE=Mr. Happy;614753]It would be great to have his ear "off-line" to ask some candid questions and maybe get no BS answers. The nature of his position simply does not afford him the ability to say what HE thinks about topics personally to a point, so he has to speak on behalf of the CSAF when addressing this stuff to gatherings of people. Pretty much giving "big picture" type answers.[/QUOTE/] Something that surprised me a bit after i got a seat at the big boy table, was that I didn't get straight talk with these dudes. I've had quite a few opportunities for one on ones and in some cases with guys I knew well, before they got the job. i get it, I really do, but it's disappointing.

JD2780
03-23-2013, 01:29 AM
Let us assume that what you say is true. How many missions failed due to this lack of "PT seriousness"? How many planes fell from the sky because the pilot only could do 21 push-ups? How many bombs hit the wrong target because the person who drafted the target folder ate too many bagels the morning she took her PT test? How many Airmen died on convoy duty because their sit-up scores were pencil-whipped? I'm guessing the answer is zero. Smarter, not harder, that was the Air Force culture I remember. RIP.


Not so much that, but how many Airmen would be able to function effectively had their vehicle become disabled during a complex ambush?

Yes, Airmen dont need to be a gleaming example of fitness, but they dont need to be fat asses either. Dont need pencil necks, but dont need obese folks either.

Some missions didnt take off because a pilot was sick which could've been prevented by proper fitness. I know of a few buff drivers that are in that category.

Airplanes falling from the sky? Well, we've had a few of those happen and the AF likes to just blame the pilot anyhow, and they dont want it to be fitness so they'll just say because he was out cold, he couldnt recover the a/c. Somehow still making it his fault.

JD2780
03-23-2013, 01:29 AM
Let us assume that what you say is true. How many missions failed due to this lack of "PT seriousness"? How many planes fell from the sky because the pilot only could do 21 push-ups? How many bombs hit the wrong target because the person who drafted the target folder ate too many bagels the morning she took her PT test? How many Airmen died on convoy duty because their sit-up scores were pencil-whipped? I'm guessing the answer is zero. Smarter, not harder, that was the Air Force culture I remember. RIP.


Not so much that, but how many Airmen would be able to function effectively had their vehicle become disabled during a complex ambush?

Yes, Airmen dont need to be a gleaming example of fitness, but they dont need to be fat asses either. Dont need pencil necks, but dont need obese folks either.

Some missions didnt take off because a pilot was sick which could've been prevented by proper fitness. I know of a few buff drivers that are in that category.

Airplanes falling from the sky? Well, we've had a few of those happen and the AF likes to just blame the pilot anyhow, and they dont want it to be fitness so they'll just say because he was out cold, he couldnt recover the a/c. Somehow still making it his fault.

JD2780
03-23-2013, 01:30 AM
Let us assume that what you say is true. How many missions failed due to this lack of "PT seriousness"? How many planes fell from the sky because the pilot only could do 21 push-ups? How many bombs hit the wrong target because the person who drafted the target folder ate too many bagels the morning she took her PT test? How many Airmen died on convoy duty because their sit-up scores were pencil-whipped? I'm guessing the answer is zero. Smarter, not harder, that was the Air Force culture I remember. RIP.


Not so much that, but how many Airmen would be able to function effectively had their vehicle become disabled during a complex ambush?

Yes, Airmen dont need to be a gleaming example of fitness, but they dont need to be fat asses either. Dont need pencil necks, but dont need obese folks either.

Some missions didnt take off because a pilot was sick which could've been prevented by proper fitness. I know of a few buff drivers that are in that category.

Airplanes falling from the sky? Well, we've had a few of those happen and the AF likes to just blame the pilot anyhow, and they dont want it to be fitness so they'll just say because he was out cold, he couldnt recover the a/c. Somehow still making it his fault.

Quixotic
03-23-2013, 02:17 AM
I don't believe the current emphasis on PT has anything to do with how one does their job (or anything else), but does have everything to do with money.

The cost of military health care, both short term and long term VA care, has been climbing, fast. Some would say skyrocketing.

If you cut the bottom unhealthy-one-percent of airman, the over-weight, the obese, the smokers, i.e. the ones most likely to suffer from chronic health problems, the savings would be exponential.

Money, that's the only reason for the current PT witch hunt that makes a lick of sense to me.

Am I off? Your thoughts...?

I wonder what the Chief would say...?

CrustySMSgt
03-23-2013, 04:51 AM
No matter what you ask, you will get a canned answer. It may take a few sentences to spin your question in a way that fits the canned answer, but you will never hear a direct answer to any question you give. It can be a lot of fun to watch when you know it's going to happen.

When he was here I asked a PT question and both he & the CSAF said they were going to review the PT program and 2 weeks later it was formally announced. So you can actually get a straight answer.


But at least we won't waste more time of our already full duty day by attending another useless "All Call" where the Command Chief thanks everyone for attending the mandatory formation.

The CSAF is actually a great speaker as close to a "regular guy" as I've seen a senior officer be. If you get a chance to hear him speak or just go watch some of his speeches on YouTube, unless you're jaded beyond hope, he can be pretty inspiring.


Let us assume that what you say is true. How many missions failed due to this lack of "PT seriousness"? How many planes fell from the sky because the pilot only could do 21 push-ups? How many bombs hit the wrong target because the person who drafted the target folder ate too many bagels the morning she took her PT test? How many Airmen died on convoy duty because their sit-up scores were pencil-whipped? I'm guessing the answer is zero. Smarter, not harder, that was the Air Force culture I remember. RIP.

While I agree PT is overblown and MOST Airmen's daily duties don't require much fitness, I have to default to the baseline that it IS the military, and there should be some reasonable expectation of fitness and military image. Being here at a NATO base, I am amazed at the wide range of acceptable "military appearance!" Can they do their jobs, most likely. Do they look like belong in the military, not so much. If appearance and fitness don't matter, why don't we allow 400 pounders to serve? Using your logic, where do you draw the line? 40" waist? 50"? 60" as long as their great at their job?



I don't believe the current emphasis on PT has anything to do with how one does their job (or anything else), but does have everything to do with money.

The cost of military health care, both short term and long term VA care, has been climbing, fast. Some would say skyrocketing.

If you cut the bottom unhealthy-one-percent of airman, the over-weight, the obese, the smokers, i.e. the ones most likely to suffer from chronic health problems, the savings would be exponential.

Money, that's the only reason for the current PT witch hunt that makes a lick of sense to me.

Am I off? Your thoughts...?

I wonder what the Chief would say...?

You're not off. When they ramped up the fitness program all this was thrown out there... might have had more of a "we want you to be healthier to reduce long-term health costs" spin, but no doubt part of the equation was cutting the worst off before they hung out to retirement age and the VA was stuck footing the bill for their poor fitness and its long-term impact on their health.

VFFTSGT
03-23-2013, 07:37 AM
Got word that he's coming to a base that I will be at. I'll also get a shot at meeting him and he's having an All Call.

What would some of you all like me to ask him?

Personally, no one should waste their time; practically just another political appointee that's a mouthpiece for the kool aid. I'm sure he means well, but the position itself is just too political.

Monkey
03-23-2013, 10:34 AM
When he was here I asked a PT question and both he & the CSAF said they were going to review the PT program and 2 weeks later it was formally announced. So you can actually get a straight answer.

So you asked the right question. I never said they didn't have canned answers for the questions they expect. The funny part is when you ask something that is outside of what is expected. If I may ask, what was your PT question? And in what way did it get answered that varied from their public releases?

KellyinAvon
03-23-2013, 12:37 PM
Personally, no one should waste their time; practically just another political appointee that's a mouthpiece for the kool aid. I'm sure he means well, but the position itself is just too political.

You in distress, Bro?

Shrike
03-23-2013, 01:31 PM
I don't believe the current emphasis on PT has anything to do with how one does their job (or anything else), but does have everything to do with money.

The cost of military health care, both short term and long term VA care, has been climbing, fast. Some would say skyrocketing.

If you cut the bottom unhealthy-one-percent of airman, the over-weight, the obese, the smokers, i.e. the ones most likely to suffer from chronic health problems, the savings would be exponential.

Money, that's the only reason for the current PT witch hunt that makes a lick of sense to me.

Am I off? Your thoughts...?

I wonder what the Chief would say...?



You're not off. When they ramped up the fitness program all this was thrown out there... might have had more of a "we want you to be healthier to reduce long-term health costs" spin, but no doubt part of the equation was cutting the worst off before they hung out to retirement age and the VA was stuck footing the bill for their poor fitness and its long-term impact on their health.
There have been studies done that show that this view is incorrect. Short-term savings DO happen. But over the long term, the "unhealthy" folks actually cost less for one simple reason - on average they die at younger ages. Meanwhile, the "healthy" people live longer thus enduring more end-of-life illnesses and expensive end-of-life care. If I remember correctly the difference was in the neighborhood of $90K per person over the long-term. The problem is that the DOD doesn't look at it long-term.

The current emphasis on PT has to do with image and force reduction.
Image: After 9/11 - for the first time since DESERT STORM - Big Blue wasn't the poster boy for American military might anymore. The focus was on the lean, mean ground pounders and Big Blue developed a man crush on soldiers and marines.

Force Reduction: Big Blue wants to cut people that have been in a while. As the EES has been utterly, hopelessly broken for over two decades they can't just look at EPRs and say "Hey, you're a shit hot worker, we're keeping you. But you over there, you scrape by doing the minimum. There's the door." So, tying back into Image they decided to go with one of the most shallow litmus tests possible: cut the fatties regardless of their ability to perform the mission (to be fair, though, I saw far more people screw up their careers because of the fat-boy program prior to the new PT program than after it). Me, I always thought they should cut the ugly people and the stupid people but I didn't get a vote.

Rainmaker
03-23-2013, 01:40 PM
how about you ask him what ever HAPPENED TO THE MISSION and why are we FOCUSING ON PT TESTS AND EDUCATION AND OTHER STUSFF when it is THE MISSION THAT MATTERS!

how about you ask him when is the last time he went to GIT R DUN, when is the last time he actually DID IT TO IT?!?!

YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :flame :flame :flame :flame :flame :flame :flame

http://www.ammoland.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/AmmoLands-America-Hell-Yeah.jpg

What a Great Pic. It brings back fond memories of Rainmaker's childhood.

Shrike
03-23-2013, 01:41 PM
What a Great Pic. It brings back fond memories of Rainmaker's childhood.

Yeah, little Shrike stood up and took notice of that picture. :biggrin

imported_KnuckleDragger
03-23-2013, 01:42 PM
Short-term savings DO happen.

Minus the sports injuries/costs/down time directly related to over emphasis on the PT program.

Rainmaker
03-23-2013, 01:44 PM
I don't believe the current emphasis on PT has anything to do with how one does their job (or anything else), but does have everything to do with money.

The cost of military health care, both short term and long term VA care, has been climbing, fast. Some would say skyrocketing.

If you cut the bottom unhealthy-one-percent of airman, the over-weight, the obese, the smokers, i.e. the ones most likely to suffer from chronic health problems, the savings would be exponential.

Money, that's the only reason for the current PT witch hunt that makes a lick of sense to me.

Am I off? Your thoughts...?

I wonder what the Chief would say...?

It is not unique to the military. The reason costs are skyrocketing is because, Big insurance and Big Pharma are allowed by (bought off regulators and lawmakers) to gouge the hell out of the public.

Shrike
03-23-2013, 01:49 PM
Minus the sports injuries/costs/down time directly related to over emphasis on the PT program.

True that. I'd like to go back in time and add up all the man-hours that my couch-potato peers and subordinates had to pick up the slack because the fitness fanatics were on crutches or on medical leave due to sports-related injuries. I imagine it would be in the hundreds.

I've said this in the past facetiously but in fact it's utterly true: if the US Government wants to save money on military/veterans health care they would encourage a sedentary lifestyle in career members starting at around 15 years TIS. Advocate for unhealthy eating habits, smoking, and heavy drinking. Provide discounts to retirees at the food court, the Class Six, and for cigarettes in the commissary. The amount of money they save long term from people dying younger would be staggering.

Rainmaker
03-23-2013, 01:50 PM
Please ask CMSgt Cody when will they repeal the ridiculous prohibition of group study for WAPS. Also, did he or his wife CMSgt Cody ever "accidentally" leave their SKT study flash cards laying around the house, or where they kept under lock and key?

imported_KnuckleDragger
03-23-2013, 01:55 PM
Please ask CMSgt Cody when will they repeal the ridiculous prohibition of group study for WAPS.


Why is this in place? Is too much knowledge bad?

Mr. Happy
03-23-2013, 02:32 PM
There have been studies done that show that this view is incorrect. Short-term savings DO happen. But over the long term, the "unhealthy" folks actually cost less for one simple reason - on average they die at younger ages. Meanwhile, the "healthy" people live longer thus enduring more end-of-life illnesses and expensive end-of-life care. If I remember correctly the difference was in the neighborhood of $90K per person over the long-term. The problem is that the DOD doesn't look at it long-term.

The current emphasis on PT has to do with image and force reduction.
Image: After 9/11 - for the first time since DESERT STORM - Big Blue wasn't the poster boy for American military might anymore. The focus was on the lean, mean ground pounders and Big Blue developed a man crush on soldiers and marines.

Force Reduction: Big Blue wants to cut people that have been in a while. As the EES has been utterly, hopelessly broken for over two decades they can't just look at EPRs and say "Hey, you're a shit hot worker, we're keeping you. But you over there, you scrape by doing the minimum. There's the door." So, tying back into Image they decided to go with one of the most shallow litmus tests possible: cut the fatties regardless of their ability to perform the mission (to be fair, though, I saw far more people screw up their careers because of the fat-boy program prior to the new PT program than after it). Me, I always thought they should cut the ugly people and the stupid people but I didn't get a vote.

Not to mention, the sooner retirees die, the sooner the government can stop paying their retirement pensions too. Why in the world do they want us healthy and living to 100 years old is beyond me. They should be pumping in nicotine smoke into our ventilation systems at work and have two for one drink specials at the clubs on base 24/7.

The AF got by just fine for decades before the overzealous fitness programs we have now. Some have mentioned where would we set the standard then? Or fear we would have 400 pound lard asses serving. The Weight Management Program (aka "Fat Boy Program") took care of that back then. The AF did just fine with that program. We weren't marathon runners, but we could hang bombs on planes, fuel them and launch them with pretty good proficiency.

Shrike
03-23-2013, 03:01 PM
Not to mention, the sooner retirees die, the sooner the government can stop paying their retirement pensions too. Why in the world do they want us healthy and living to 100 years old is beyond me. They should be pumping in nicotine smoke into our ventilation systems at work and have two for one drink specials at the clubs on base 24/7.

The AF got by just fine for decades before the overzealous fitness programs we have now. Some have mentioned where would we set the standard then? Or fear we would have 400 pound lard asses serving. The Weight Management Program (aka "Fat Boy Program") took care of that back then. The AF did just fine with that program. We weren't marathon runners, but we could hang bombs on planes, fuel them and launch them with pretty good proficiency.

Yep; how the hell did the USAF put on one of the most stunning displays of air power in the history of this planet during DESERT STORM without a serious PT program in place? Apparently there's no correlation between fitness levels and ability to accomplish the mission.

Back then the WMP scared the hell out of FAR more people than PT did. A failed PT test could be overlooked if the member was a great technician. Bust weight and present a (subjective) poor military image, though, and there were ramifications.

Shrike
03-23-2013, 03:04 PM
Please ask CMSgt Cody when will they repeal the ridiculous prohibition of group study for WAPS. Also, did he or his wife CMSgt Cody ever "accidentally" leave their SKT study flash cards laying around the house, or where they kept under lock and key?


Why is this in place? Is too much knowledge bad?

This often puzzles me, too. As much as we focus on teamwork, looking out for each other, having the wingman stuff rammed down our throats, etc., you'd think collaborative studying would be encouraged.

The flip side to this coin is that as a service we wrongly focus on "Up or Out". So if you are a SSgt in a workcenter with two other SSgts, the percentages say that if any of you get promoted it'll only be one person. Are you going to help your peers prepare for the stripe you want?

KellyinAvon
03-23-2013, 03:06 PM
Not to mention, the sooner retirees die, the sooner the government can stop paying their retirement pensions too. Why in the world do they want us healthy and living to 100 years old is beyond me. They should be pumping in nicotine smoke into our ventilation systems at work and have two for one drink specials at the clubs on base 24/7.

The AF got by just fine for decades before the overzealous fitness programs we have now. Some have mentioned where would we set the standard then? Or fear we would have 400 pound lard asses serving. The Weight Management Program (aka "Fat Boy Program") took care of that back then. The AF did just fine with that program. We weren't marathon runners, but we could hang bombs on planes, fuel them and launch them with pretty good proficiency.

I quit smoking 20 years ago. I'm gonna draw Blue-ID Mafia payments til I'm well into geezer-dom.

Quixotic
03-23-2013, 03:07 PM
There have been studies done that show that this view is incorrect.

I'd like to see these studies because I'm not convinced. I'm being serious and not a smart @ss btw.


Short-term savings DO happen. But over the long term, the "unhealthy" folks actually cost less for one simple reason - on average they die at younger ages. Meanwhile, the "healthy" people live longer thus enduring more end-of-life illnesses and expensive end-of-life care. If I remember correctly the difference was in the neighborhood of $90K per person over the long-term. The problem is that the DOD doesn't look at it long-term.

I'm not convinced because end-of-life illness and care will still typically cost the same regardless of age, also, people still tend to go quicker later in life than sooner. Anyway, I'd seriously like to see the studies because we've been having this discussion at work.


The current emphasis on PT has to do with image and force reduction.
Image: After 9/11 - for the first time since DESERT STORM - Big Blue wasn't the poster boy for American military might anymore. The focus was on the lean, mean ground pounders and Big Blue developed a man crush on soldiers and marines.

Force Reduction: Big Blue wants to cut people that have been in a while. As the EES has been utterly, hopelessly broken for over two decades they can't just look at EPRs and say "Hey, you're a shit hot worker, we're keeping you. But you over there, you scrape by doing the minimum. There's the door." So, tying back into Image they decided to go with one of the most shallow litmus tests possible: cut the fatties regardless of their ability to perform the mission (to be fair, though, I saw far more people screw up their careers because of the fat-boy program prior to the new PT program than after it). Me, I always thought they should cut the ugly people and the stupid people but I didn't get a vote.

Not too sure I'm convinced of this one either because there are still other ways to cut people that have been around too long, or simply need to go. Although, force reduction (if Big Blue is serious about it) would be a compelling reason to finally fix the EES. Wow, think of all the people I could get rid of it wasn't mandatory that I give them all fives....

Chief_KO
03-23-2013, 03:24 PM
Big Blue's man crush on Soldiers and Marines...at first I did not agree with that, then thought about it for a minute.
The problem is that the ground Airman (officer or enlisted) is not the prototypical Air Force poster child...no flight suit, no cool sunglasses, no borderline haircut, no crunched flight cap, no snazzy nickname (if an officer and it is NOT a call sign).
So we didn't know what to do? How can we recognize (advertise) some lowly enlisted Airmen driving a convoy, defusing an IED, intel gathering, installing communications, launching aircraft, etc.
Rather than just properly recognizing and extolling these Airmen for what they do, we had to instead transform them into what they are not...Soldiers or Marines.

Rainmaker
03-23-2013, 03:33 PM
This often puzzles me, too. As much as we focus on teamwork, looking out for each other, having the wingman stuff rammed down our throats, etc., you'd think collaborative studying would be encouraged.

The flip side to this coin is that as a service we wrongly focus on "Up or Out". So if you are a SSgt in a workcenter with two other SSgts, the percentages say that if any of you get promoted it'll only be one person. Are you going to help your peers prepare for the stripe you want?


Only if we have a joint checking account. Nomsayin??

strataboomer
03-23-2013, 04:00 PM
Please ask CMSgt Cody when will they repeal the ridiculous prohibition of group study for WAPS. Also, did he or his wife CMSgt Cody ever "accidentally" leave their SKT study flash cards laying around the house, or where they kept under lock and key?

If you have ever met CMSAF Cody or his wife you would not ask such an insulting question.

Venus
03-23-2013, 04:22 PM
We weren't marathon runners, but we could hang bombs on planes, fuel them and launch them with pretty good proficiency.
You see that is the problem, we don't care about our core competencies anymore. The present force is so far removed from the Air Force that fought Desert Storm, Northern Watch, Southern Watch and the early beginning moves of Enduring Freedom.

Shrike
03-23-2013, 04:37 PM
I'd like to see these studies because I'm not convinced. I'm being serious and not a smart @ss btw.


The studies were linked here several times a while back by a poster named sigecaps, I believe.

Shrike
03-23-2013, 04:40 PM
[/B]

Only if we have a joint checking account. Nomsayin??
I can say with 100% honesty that when I was on AD my wife and I never studied together. All it would take would be for one minor slip of the tongue during a mundane conversation at work - "What'd we do last night? Oh, we were studying the PDG" instead of "I was studying the PDG" - and we could be in a world of shit. Why take the chance?

VFFTSGT
03-23-2013, 05:36 PM
You in distress, Bro?

Nope, every American that is about to get laid off and furloughed for political reasons is.

The country is in distress.

Deploy Me Please
03-23-2013, 06:32 PM
There have been studies done that show that this view is incorrect. Short-term savings DO happen. But over the long term, the "unhealthy" folks actually cost less for one simple reason - on average they die at younger ages. Meanwhile, the "healthy" people live longer thus enduring more end-of-life illnesses and expensive end-of-life care. If I remember correctly the difference was in the neighborhood of $90K per person over the long-term. The problem is that the DOD doesn't look at it long-term.

The current emphasis on PT has to do with image and force reduction.
Image: After 9/11 - for the first time since DESERT STORM - Big Blue wasn't the poster boy for American military might anymore. The focus was on the lean, mean ground pounders and Big Blue developed a man crush on soldiers and marines.

Force Reduction: Big Blue wants to cut people that have been in a while. As the EES has been utterly, hopelessly broken for over two decades they can't just look at EPRs and say "Hey, you're a shit hot worker, we're keeping you. But you over there, you scrape by doing the minimum. There's the door." So, tying back into Image they decided to go with one of the most shallow litmus tests possible: cut the fatties regardless of their ability to perform the mission (to be fair, though, I saw far more people screw up their careers because of the fat-boy program prior to the new PT program than after it). Me, I always thought they should cut the ugly people and the stupid people but I didn't get a vote.

I remember when that study was floating around. I think I saw it here. I emailed it to my boss and recommended and end to the PT program and jelly doughnut diet program. The study was funded by folks selling some kind of extended health insurance.

Drackore
03-23-2013, 07:18 PM
Ok I will have about 10 mins with him. I am not going to ask a PT based question, because he already stated that he's going to look into it and then be done with it. I also won't ask about the group WAPS study, because I understand it (people that took the test a few times doing a group study together is an unfair advantage and anyways - promotion is a personal responsibility). Same with EPRs....too many too often. Let's go a different route...something fresh yet pressing?

Uniforms? Ancillary training? CCAF? JET taskings?

VFFTSGT
03-23-2013, 07:22 PM
Ok I will have about 10 mins with him. I am not going to ask a PT based question, because he already stated that he's going to look into it and then be done with it. I also won't ask about the group WAPS study, because I understand it (people that took the test a few times doing a group study together is an unfair advantage and anyways - promotion is a personal responsibility). Same with EPRs....too many too often. Let's go a different route...something fresh yet pressing?

Uniforms? Ancillary training? CCAF? JET taskings?

Those aren't fresh either.

A fresher question would be how he can afford to travel around but we cannot afford to buy parts for equipment.

imported_KnuckleDragger
03-23-2013, 07:38 PM
Let's go a different route...something fresh yet pressing?

Uniforms? Ancillary training? CCAF? JET taskings?



Is there guidance on the RABUs being sold at Clothing Sales?

What this fart smeller said...

JD2780
03-24-2013, 12:31 AM
I can say with 100% honesty that when I was on AD my wife and I never studied together. All it would take would be for one minor slip of the tongue during a mundane conversation at work - "What'd we do last night? Oh, we were studying the PDG" instead of "I was studying the PDG" - and we could be in a world of shit. Why take the chance?

My wife and I always studied at the same time in the same room yet separately. Asked ourselves questions out loud. Separately of course.

BigBaze
03-24-2013, 12:46 AM
When he was here I asked a PT question and both he & the CSAF said they were going to review the PT program and 2 weeks later it was formally announced. So you can actually get a straight answer.



The CSAF is actually a great speaker as close to a "regular guy" as I've seen a senior officer be. If you get a chance to hear him speak or just go watch some of his speeches on YouTube, unless you're jaded beyond hope, he can be pretty inspiring.



While I agree PT is overblown and MOST Airmen's daily duties don't require much fitness, I have to default to the baseline that it IS the military, and there should be some reasonable expectation of fitness and military image. Being here at a NATO base, I am amazed at the wide range of acceptable "military appearance!" Can they do their jobs, most likely. Do they look like belong in the military, not so much. If appearance and fitness don't matter, why don't we allow 400 pounders to serve? Using your logic, where do you draw the line? 40" waist? 50"? 60" as long as their great at their job?




You're not off. When they ramped up the fitness program all this was thrown out there... might have had more of a "we want you to be healthier to reduce long-term health costs" spin, but no doubt part of the equation was cutting the worst off before they hung out to retirement age and the VA was stuck footing the bill for their poor fitness and its long-term impact on their health.


Not jaded at all, I am just tired of seeing my best and brightest punch because they are just sick of being told they are not good enough because they don't volunteer enough, don't go to school enough, but are shit hot at their job. And now I am sitting in weekly meetings with the CC, listening to Stan/Eval giving their checkride debrief for flyers that check all those boxes but now have Q3'd their check ride.

It's beyond maddening, the only thing that keeps me in right now is my love of flying, and the fact that we can save lives on the ground with our missions. Gen Selva is an amazing speaker and leader I am sure, but it takes a lot more than words, I think the enlisted force is worn out by rhetoric, and wants to see actual changes to the broken EPR and PT program.

Robert F. Dorr
03-24-2013, 12:59 AM
Not to mention, the sooner retirees die, the sooner the government can stop paying their retirement pensions too. Why in the world do they want us healthy and living to 100 years old is beyond me. They should be pumping in nicotine smoke into our ventilation systems at work and have two for one drink specials at the clubs on base 24/7.

The AF got by just fine for decades before the overzealous fitness programs we have now. Some have mentioned where would we set the standard then? Or fear we would have 400 pound lard asses serving. The Weight Management Program (aka "Fat Boy Program") took care of that back then. The AF did just fine with that program. We weren't marathon runners, but we could hang bombs on planes, fuel them and launch them with pretty good proficiency.

To the best of my recollection, there were no fitness requirements in the 1950s. You took a physical when you enlisted. Maybe they gave physicals routinely at some interval after that; I don't know. But we had senior noncommissioned officers who were hugely overweight. They probably weren't technically as proficient as NCOs today but they were able to do their jobs. Many of those fat guys had been in World War II.

mjt
03-24-2013, 01:39 AM
I'd like to know if Chief Cody feels that the Air Force preaching the importance of face to face communication then planning to shift a large portion of PME to distance learning in an effort to save money, sends a mixed signal to our Airmen on which is the priority.

OtisRNeedleman
03-24-2013, 02:48 AM
Let us assume that what you say is true. How many missions failed due to this lack of "PT seriousness"? How many planes fell from the sky because the pilot only could do 21 push-ups? How many bombs hit the wrong target because the person who drafted the target folder ate too many bagels the morning she took her PT test? How many Airmen died on convoy duty because their sit-up scores were pencil-whipped? I'm guessing the answer is zero. Smarter, not harder, that was the Air Force culture I remember. RIP.

Indeed. And it hadn't yet turned into the "culture of fear" I see depicted here every day. True, it was a "one-mistake Air Force" even thirty years ago, but people didn't seem to live in fear all the time.

KellyinAvon
03-24-2013, 11:57 AM
Nope, every American that is about to get laid off and furloughed for political reasons is.

The country is in distress.

Thought I'd ask since you're flying your flag upside-down.

Chief_KO
03-24-2013, 12:53 PM
Analog vs digital...
Heard that from a figure head awhile ago
:-)

Since distance learning works so well for Air War College, producing the free world's greatest military leaders why would we expect less from enlisted PME? (that was full sarcasm)

Actually, I believe EPME is going to a "blended learning" environment where certain lessons will be completed before hand cutting the in residence portion by half.

FYI we used to have all levels of PME available via correspondence...I did NCOA correspondence and later in residence. Those were killed off in the "Year of Education" purge lead by some guy wearing a blue blazer...

imported_DannyJ
03-24-2013, 01:39 PM
Ok I will have about 10 mins with him. I am not going to ask a PT based question, because he already stated that he's going to look into it and then be done with it. I also won't ask about the group WAPS study, because I understand it (people that took the test a few times doing a group study together is an unfair advantage and anyways - promotion is a personal responsibility). Same with EPRs....too many too often. Let's go a different route...something fresh yet pressing?

Uniforms? Ancillary training? CCAF? JET taskings?

Uniforms- Given the charlie foxtrot that the ABU is (it is a fancy garrison uniform essentially) why don't we bring back some heritage and use drabs again? No need for infrared suppression or any of the other fancy, expensive, and useless traits. We want a professional, cheap, and USEFUL uniform for home station. We're getting deployed uniforms now anyway (which was supposed to be the point of the ABU...).

Additional duties - Me for an example, I am a records custodian, facility manager, self inspection manager, all on top of running shift. How am I suppose to focus on the job, and I do my best, when I have to learn and keep up with all those other programs? This kind of shit just needs to go away.

JET Taskings - END THEM. We should not be sending one more body on this crap. The Army cut their deployments so we shouldn't be filling their gaps anymore. Why are we still doing them?!

TA - Make TA only applicable to course toward CCAF or degrees applicable to your career field. Could still give 100% and reduce abuse by a damn good amount.

CCAF - This should be mandatory for promotion to MSgt. Isn't there too much of a gap between SNCO ranks like MSgt and SMSgt?

General question - Is there any thought being put into how to put the focus back on technical/professional proficiency? There are too many Airmen trying to compete on everything but how well they do their job.

Drackore
03-24-2013, 06:10 PM
General question - Is there any thought being put into how to put the focus back on technical/professional proficiency? There are too many Airmen trying to compete on everything but how well they do their job.

I am leaning towards something like this. Education beyond CCAF, Volunteering, Ancillary Training, Add'l Training, Pre-Deployment Training, CRT, CST, PME...CBTs that are required to take a class that rehashes the CBTs (SABC, CBRN)...who has time for their primary job?

Anyone want to help me develop this into a question? It sounds good as is - I want it to sound epic (because I am dead sexy).

KellyinAvon
03-24-2013, 07:04 PM
Uniforms- Given the charlie foxtrot that the ABU is (it is a fancy garrison uniform essentially) why don't we bring back some heritage and use drabs again? No need for infrared suppression or any of the other fancy, expensive, and useless traits. We want a professional, cheap, and USEFUL uniform for home station. We're getting deployed uniforms now anyway (which was supposed to be the point of the ABU...).

Additional duties - Me for an example, I am a records custodian, facility manager, self inspection manager, all on top of running shift. How am I suppose to focus on the job, and I do my best, when I have to learn and keep up with all those other programs? This kind of shit just needs to go away.

JET Taskings - END THEM. We should not be sending one more body on this crap. The Army cut their deployments so we shouldn't be filling their gaps anymore. Why are we still doing them?!

TA - Make TA only applicable to course toward CCAF or degrees applicable to your career field. Could still give 100% and reduce abuse by a damn good amount.

CCAF - This should be mandatory for promotion to MSgt. Isn't there too much of a gap between SNCO ranks like MSgt and SMSgt?

General question - Is there any thought being put into how to put the focus back on technical/professional proficiency? There are too many Airmen trying to compete on everything but how well they do their job.

Some good questions for the CMSAF here DannyJ. Every chance I get, BRING BACK GREEN FATIGUES appears on the screen.

Additional duties were getting out of hand years ago. It's like we (ya'll since I'm long-gone) never end any additional duties, just pile more on. Fewer troops = more per troop.

JET (ILO in my day): need to go away. Why are we doing them? Chief Cody can and should call the 9AF/CCM and ask why were still doing this crap.

JD2780
03-24-2013, 07:19 PM
Uniforms- Given the charlie foxtrot that the ABU is (it is a fancy garrison uniform essentially) why don't we bring back some heritage and use drabs again? No need for infrared suppression or any of the other fancy, expensive, and useless traits. We want a professional, cheap, and USEFUL uniform for home station. We're getting deployed uniforms now anyway (which was supposed to be the point of the ABU...).

Additional duties - Me for an example, I am a records custodian, facility manager, self inspection manager, all on top of running shift. How am I suppose to focus on the job, and I do my best, when I have to learn and keep up with all those other programs? This kind of shit just needs to go away.

JET Taskings - END THEM. We should not be sending one more body on this crap. The Army cut their deployments so we shouldn't be filling their gaps anymore. Why are we still doing them?!

TA - Make TA only applicable to course toward CCAF or degrees applicable to your career field. Could still give 100% and reduce abuse by a damn good amount.

CCAF - This should be mandatory for promotion to MSgt. Isn't there too much of a gap between SNCO ranks like MSgt and SMSgt?

General question - Is there any thought being put into how to put the focus back on technical/professional proficiency? There are too many Airmen trying to compete on everything but how well they do their job.

The CCAF should be tossed out all together. It's worthless.

RobotChicken
03-24-2013, 08:42 PM
:clock What is with all this 'Volunteering/told' stuff anyway? Did all you folks and I NOT Volunteer for SERVICE in OUR Military? :crazy

CrustySMSgt
03-25-2013, 06:05 AM
Both Chief Cody and the CSAF have said they agree we should have Airmen doing Airmen stuff and are doing their best to get those turned off, so that one is probably in the :deadhorse category.

I think everything that is discussed here has been asked and answered many times. To get outside the box, you've got to make it something different.

I do like the idea of asking him what he feels his responsibility as CMSAF is. What his goals for his tenure are and when he looks back, what does he want to see as the highlights of his time in the position.

Or, a question I asked the ACC commander when the Chiefs had lunch with him when he came through here, "What keeps you up at night?"

Shrike
03-25-2013, 01:10 PM
The CCAF should be tossed out all together. It's worthless.

I wouldn't say that. Without a CCAF I wouldn't have retired as an SMSgt. Depending on how long I live the difference between MSgt and SMSgt pension may bring me a couple of hundred thousand dollars. That's how much it was worth it to me. :biggrin

Now if you're talking about getting rid of it and eliminating it from SRE requirements I'm with you 100%

Robert F. Dorr
03-25-2013, 01:38 PM
I wouldn't say that. Without a CCAF I wouldn't have retired as an SMSgt. Depending on how long I live the difference between MSgt and SMSgt pension may bring me a couple of hundred thousand dollars. That's how much it was worth it to me. :biggrin

Now if you're talking about getting rid of it and eliminating it from SRE requirements I'm with you 100%

Better not let any of the purist mofos in this Forum catch you using the P-word. That's "retired pay," Bubba. You can get into a lot of deep [censored] around here if you use a word in its correct meaning in the English language. Repeat after me: retired pay, retired pay, retired pay ...

JD2780
03-25-2013, 01:40 PM
I wouldn't say that. Without a CCAF I wouldn't have retired as an SMSgt. Depending on how long I live the difference between MSgt and SMSgt pension may bring me a couple of hundred thousand dollars. That's how much it was worth it to me. :biggrin

Now if you're talking about getting rid of it and eliminating it from SRE requirements I'm with you 100%


Ok, I'll go that with that one. There are plenty of MSgts that. Would make amazing SMSgt and CMSgts. But will never see it because they're concentrating on. Their bachelors or something. Yet you'll have some SNCOs that only pursued the CCAF and make it. Yet actually have NO leadership skills or managerial skills.

Shrike
03-25-2013, 01:46 PM
Ok, I'll go that with that one. There are plenty of MSgts that. Would make amazing SMSgt and CMSgts. But will never see it because they're concentrating on. Their bachelors or something. Yet you'll have some SNCOs that only pursued the CCAF and make it. Yet actually have NO leadership skills or managerial skills.

I really cannot feel sorry for those without a CCAF. It took me all of about 45 minutes of CLEP/DANTES time spread out over 15 or 16 years to knock out the CCAF requirements. 45 friggin' minutes. If they're already in a degree program they should have the background knowledge to be able to pass a CLEP no problem. If they're not they can check out a study guide for free from the base library, study for six hours or so over a weekend, and pass the test.

EDIT: BTW, I read your post inserting pauses between sentences at the periods as normal. I could not help but read it in William Shatner's voice. :biggrin I'm not busting your balls - I figure you're posting from a phone - but it was pretty funny.

tiredretiredE7
03-25-2013, 01:49 PM
Got word that he's coming to a base that I will be at. I'll also get a shot at meeting him and he's having an All Call.

What would some of you all like me to ask him?


I believe you could skip any questions on AC since the AF fired Col Tim Bush and skip any questions on TA since Chief Cody failed the enlisted on that subject. Wasn’t it Chief Cody who said he was going to look into the AC portion of the FA? 0-2 Chief Cody, on the same track as Roy.

JD2780
03-25-2013, 01:54 PM
I really cannot feel sorry for those without a CCAF. It took me all of about 45 minutes of CLEP/DANTES time spread out over 15 or 16 years to knock out the CCAF requirements. 45 friggin' minutes. If they're already in a degree program they should have the background knowledge to be able to pass a CLEP no problem. If they're not they can check out a study guide for free from the base library, study for six hours or so over a weekend, and pass the test.

EDIT: BTW, I read your post inserting pauses between sentences at the periods as normal. I could not help but read it in William Shatner's voice. :biggrin I'm not busting your balls - I figure you're posting from a phone - but it was pretty funny.

You hit the nail on the head. iPad and my detached keyboard is dead!!! It is horrible looking. How does having a CCAF equal leadership and job knowledge? It doesn't. I really hope my keyboard finishes charging soon

Drackore
03-25-2013, 02:07 PM
Well my personal time was cancelled but his All Call is soon. I'll try to sneak in the question of what keeps him up at night there.

His stance on the CCAF is what you would expect (addressed earlier when I was nearby): It's part of force development, we want educated and trained professionals, and lead from the front SNCOs (paraphrased, in a nutshell).

JD2780
03-25-2013, 02:22 PM
Well my personal time was cancelled but his All Call is soon. I'll try to sneak in the question of what keeps him up at night there.

His stance on the CCAF is what you would expect (addressed earlier when I was nearby): It's part of force development, we want educated and trained professionals, and lead from the front SNCOs (paraphrased, in a nutshell).


Yet a bachelors has no value. It's BS.

Shrike
03-25-2013, 02:38 PM
You hit the nail on the head. iPad and my detached keyboard is dead!!! It is horrible looking. How does having a CCAF equal leadership and job knowledge? It doesn't. I really hope my keyboard finishes charging soon

I agree with you 100%. As a matter of fact, in the past I've opined that the emphasis on the CCAF for SNCOs is actually rather insulting. But as long as it's a requirement for SRE anyone wishing to advance past MSgt knows they need to have one. And it's relatively easy to knock it out.

BUDJR8
03-25-2013, 03:37 PM
Had an all call with him and I can assure you the questions weren't scripted because we had some stupid ones.

Also, not one question about PT or EPRs. I did appreciate the CMSAF's honesty & "it is what it is", but really no breaking news or nothing new to pass along.

Drackore
03-25-2013, 04:58 PM
Nods...it was pretty uneventful and unenlightened. We had a better All Call with CMSAF Gaylor.

Sergeant eNYgma
03-25-2013, 06:27 PM
Not so much that, but how many Airmen would be able to function effectively had their vehicle become disabled during a complex ambush?

Yes, Airmen dont need to be a gleaming example of fitness, but they dont need to be fat asses either. Dont need pencil necks, but dont need obese folks either.

Some missions didnt take off because a pilot was sick which could've been prevented by proper fitness. I know of a few buff drivers that are in that category.

Airplanes falling from the sky? Well, we've had a few of those happen and the AF likes to just blame the pilot anyhow, and they dont want it to be fitness so they'll just say because he was out cold, he couldnt recover the a/c. Somehow still making it his fault.

Thats funny I thought the the pilot was the LAST person the AF would blame over such incidents...

JD2780
03-25-2013, 07:01 PM
Thats funny I thought the the pilot was the LAST person the AF would blame over such incidents...

Look at be f-22 wreck in AK. Blaming the pilot. Then some people at the funny shaped building said BS.

Sergeant eNYgma
03-25-2013, 08:26 PM
Look at be f-22 wreck in AK. Blaming the pilot. Then some people at the funny shaped building said BS.

I'll read up on that.

BUDJR8
03-25-2013, 08:44 PM
Nods...it was pretty uneventful and unenlightened. We had a better All Call with CMSAF Gaylor.

No doubt, but you always get a better show with the older guys like McCoy, Gaylor and Parrish...when's the last time you heard that ol' Benken or Finch really "stole the show" and put on a good gig...hasn't happened...

Robert F. Dorr
03-26-2013, 08:51 AM
When he was here I asked a PT question and both he & the CSAF said they were going to review the PT program and 2 weeks later it was formally announced. So you can actually get a straight answer.

The CSAF is actually a great speaker as close to a "regular guy" as I've seen a senior officer be. If you get a chance to hear him speak or just go watch some of his speeches on YouTube, unless you're jaded beyond hope, he can be pretty inspiring.

While I agree PT is overblown and MOST Airmen's daily duties don't require much fitness, I have to default to the baseline that it IS the military, and there should be some reasonable expectation of fitness and military image. Being here at a NATO base, I am amazed at the wide range of acceptable "military appearance!" Can they do their jobs, most likely. Do they look like belong in the military, not so much. If appearance and fitness don't matter, why don't we allow 400 pounders to serve? Using your logic, where do you draw the line? 40" waist? 50"? 60" as long as their great at their job?

You're not off. When they ramped up the fitness program all this was thrown out there... might have had more of a "we want you to be healthier to reduce long-term health costs" spin, but no doubt part of the equation was cutting the worst off before they hung out to retirement age and the VA was stuck footing the bill for their poor fitness and its long-term impact on their health.

I'm trying to find a reference to confirm that Chief Cody promised to review the EPR program. He did, didn't he?

The Air Force got through its first 50 years as an independent service branch without today's fitness culture.

Rainmaker
03-26-2013, 03:04 PM
Ask him how much his Air Fare and Per Diem was to attend the Air Warfare Symposium and Technology Exposition Feb. 23-24 in Orlando, FL. Was this considered mission essential travel? If so, why. Rainmaker hope didn't get a sunburn. It was pretty hot that day.

CrustySMSgt
03-26-2013, 03:43 PM
Ok, I'll go that with that one. There are plenty of MSgts that. Would make amazing SMSgt and CMSgts. But will never see it because they're concentrating on. Their bachelors or something. Yet you'll have some SNCOs that only pursued the CCAF and make it. Yet actually have NO leadership skills or managerial skills.

(Now I can't get Shrike's Shatner voice out of my head... lol)

If someone uses this as an excuse as to why they didn't make SMSgt or CMSgt, they're grasping at straws. As Shrike said, it is easily accomplished. And given most graduate degrees require general education, most can accomplish both with the same classes. Those who fail to meet the requirement are cutting off their nose to spite their face.


I'm trying to find a reference to confirm that Chief Cody promised to review the EPR program. He did, didn't he?

The Air Force got through its first 50 years as an independent service branch without today's fitness culture.

He mentioned it here; don't recall having read it anywhere else... but then my wife hasn't sent me my stack of AFTs and I don't often visit their website.

We made it through the first 50 years without lots of things... some good and some bad.

giggawatt
03-26-2013, 03:56 PM
Chief Cody was here today. It was very uneventful. I couldn't hear most of what he said because I was behind the speakers and getting a lot of echo. It was mostly a Q & A and that's about it.

One douche nozzle airman had a written out question with statistics about suicides. I don't know the exact questions because I couldn't hear but I just thought that guy was a tool bag. Certainly that was a canned question.

imported_StandardsAMust
03-26-2013, 05:38 PM
Here is what I took away from his visit in Germany. He had an all call that I attended. This is just a brief summary and he sounds legit.

One: He wants people to work less hours. He thinks our issues stem from us working more than we should because it is in our DNA. He says this message is coming from the Chief of Staff and Secretary of Air Force.

Two: He wants us to take care of our family and find the balance between work life and family life. It won't always be in balance, but we should try to make it balance as often as we can.

Three: He wants us to SERVE and stop thinking we should be SERVED.

Four: There are going to be decisions made under his watch that will benefit the SERVICE as a whole and not us as individuals. His message is to think big picture if a change occurs in a program that we are uncomfortable with.

Five: His mission and focus will be on finding what helps us complete the Mission with less distractions.

Then, there was time for Q&A. Here's the best I can remember:

Q1: What will TA look like in FY14?
Answer: Not sure, but it might not be 100%. He then said that congress just passed a bill to bring TA back this year...but didn't fund it. He also thinks Airmen should have some stake in this process...possibly referring to a 75/25 split.

Q2: I like medical and intramural sports? What benefits are on the chopping block because of sequestration.
Answer: Everything is on the table, then somehow the topic turned to retirement and he says that the system could be altered in the future that will benefit those coming in. A system that allows members to leave the service with 8 years invested and some type of retirement of savings plan when they leave, versus them staying 20 years to collect.

Q3: My squadron CC just briefed us that our deployment tempo will increase, is this true?
Answer: What squadron are you with????

Q4: What does the future hold for the F-35's?
Answer: Not sure...next

Q5: I began to lose interest at this point and can't remember the last few.

He ended the all call by reminding us that we should be proud to wear the uniform and that this is OUR Air Force and we shape it by what we do everyday.

There were no questions asked about EPRs, Uniforms or PT.

Hoo-huh???
03-27-2013, 06:39 AM
Got word that he's coming to a base that I will be at. I'll also get a shot at meeting him and he's having an All Call.

What would some of you all like me to ask him?

Drackore, any question you ask him will have to go through your leadership & be approved first. You know how it goes...

Drackore
03-27-2013, 07:07 PM
Actually they didn't pre-screen any questions. We didn't when SecAF came by last year either. All questions were free-for-all. I was quite impressed. (I know this because for SecAF an idiot with hair too long and out of regs asked if he could shake the SecAFs hand in front of the entire base)

Rainmaker
03-28-2013, 07:36 PM
Here is what I took away from his visit in Germany. He had an all call that I attended. This is just a brief summary and he sounds legit.

One: He wants people to work less hours. He thinks our issues stem from us working more than we should because it is in our DNA. He says this message is coming from the Chief of Staff and Secretary of Air Force.

Two: He wants us to take care of our family and find the balance between work life and family life. It won't always be in balance, but we should try to make it balance as often as we can.

Three: He wants us to SERVE and stop thinking we should be SERVED.

Four: There are going to be decisions made under his watch that will benefit the SERVICE as a whole and not us as individuals. His message is to think big picture if a change occurs in a program that we are uncomfortable with.

Five: His mission and focus will be on finding what helps us complete the Mission with less distractions.

Then, there was time for Q&A. Here's the best I can remember:

Q1: What will TA look like in FY14?
Answer: Not sure, but it might not be 100%. He then said that congress just passed a bill to bring TA back this year...but didn't fund it. He also thinks Airmen should have some stake in this process...possibly referring to a 75/25 split.

Q2: I like medical and intramural sports? What benefits are on the chopping block because of sequestration.
Answer: Everything is on the table, then somehow the topic turned to retirement and he says that the system could be altered in the future that will benefit those coming in. A system that allows members to leave the service with 8 years invested and some type of retirement of savings plan when they leave, versus them staying 20 years to collect.

Q3: My squadron CC just briefed us that our deployment tempo will increase, is this true?Answer: What squadron are you with????
Q4: What does the future hold for the F-35's?
Answer: Not sure...next

Q5: I began to lose interest at this point and can't remember the last few.

He ended the all call by reminding us that we should be proud to wear the uniform and that this is OUR Air Force and we shape it by what we do everyday.

There were no questions asked about EPRs, Uniforms or PT.

sounds legit? Sounds like the usual typical Bullshit political spin. Same old tired do more with less line. Anyone really think they're going to tell you to quit working so hard and mean it? It's enough to make a fat cat defense contractor at Disney World Cry. But, Rainmaker ain't buying this shit. It's one thing to have budget realities to deal with. It's another to be out there cheerleading cuts and blowing smoke up your troops asses and tell them you support gutting the retirement for the next generation and replacing it with a 401K because it's going to be more fair for them. Quit trying to put lipstick on the pig. This shit is pervasive from the top down. Just like Dempsey saying the infantry standards need to be "dusted off" (translation they're too hard for enough split tails to meet). This is what we've had ever since Big Blue started with this Command Chief shit. career politicians who spend too much time at executive leadership courses and business school seminars, being treated like DVs whenever they do show up. Rainmaker got nothing against this cat personally. But, 12 years of combat operations and we get a guy whose sole deployment experience is 3 months at PSAB to represent the Enlisted force's interests thru the drawdown?

RobotChicken
03-28-2013, 10:05 PM
:popcorn Ask him his retirement date!! :horn

Igloowhite
03-28-2013, 11:39 PM
Excellent critique!

Hoo-huh???
04-01-2013, 11:11 AM
Actually they didn't pre-screen any questions. We didn't when SecAF came by last year either. All questions were free-for-all. I was quite impressed. (I know this because for SecAF an idiot with hair too long and out of regs asked if he could shake the SecAFs hand in front of the entire base)

Well I was actually surprised they didn't pre-screen...

CrustySMSgt
04-01-2013, 12:51 PM
Well I was actually surprised they didn't pre-screen...

Been quite awhile since I've seen questions prescreened/picked. Seems like someone finally listened to all the bitching about the dumb questions being filtered out by base leadership and actually trusting people to go VFR direct.

imported_SergeantJack
04-04-2013, 06:39 PM
I'm trying very hard, but I'm not coming up with a single reason why anybody should ask the Chief Master Sergeant of the Air Force anything at all. What good will it do?