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SeaLawyer
03-19-2013, 12:21 PM
So, there I was watching the news last night and drowning in sorrow over the financial posture and lackluster leadership of the United States. Every time I changed the channel, more news about the American crisis. In an attempt to turn a blind eye to the continual Congressional calamities, I decided to pick up the tangible, classic newspaper instead. Of course, this feeble attempt proved equally unworthy in my quest for something more patriotically uplifting.

What a sad recollection I then had: I pondered how proud I was to be an American back in the ‘80’s with a fearless President that was just as intimidating off the movie screen as he was on it back in his Death Valley Days. Seeing an American flag gave me goose bumps making it easy to walk tall when we pulled into foreign ports and walked off the bridge after saluting the American flag. It was like being a Hollywood star myself having people you don’t even know swarm around you wanting to know what it’s like to be from the United States.

While driving to work today, I took notice of all the American flags along the way and felt an overwhelming sadness of this Federal fecal typhoon we now endure. I mused myself even more on the forum threads I had with Quixotic, Chief Bosun, Robot Chicken, and garhkal about the naming of ships and what an afloat travesty that has become.

Can someone tell me what has happened over the past 20 years that has brought such seemingly mockery to our country with all the negative International headlines?

In other words, can someone provide please provide some verbal spirit and restore my pride and patriotism back to its original calibration?

We all know how I, “Sea Lawyer, “ likes to kick the hornet’s nest so, let’s make our own connotative run for Congress here!

Chief Bosun
03-19-2013, 01:48 PM
I'll bite.

We've had cycles of ups and downs.

In my lifetime I've seen Congress go from a group that not only had personal and political agendas, but the smarts to know when to put the agendas aside and work for the common good to a bunch of mostly self-serving folks that are legends in their own minds.

I've seen where military service went from being a shared obligation to something to be avoided even if it mean turning tail and running to Canada, and if you served you were called a baby killer, and all folks could focus on was investigating the President and trying to impeach him after he had resigned from office. Later it went to where senior folks were on food stamps, and it was almost impossible to keep folks in the service.

President Reagan, for all the negative things said about him, had one badly needed quality - he knew how to work a crowd, how to communicate, and more importantly, how to inspire. We managed to go from being a paper tiger back to a force to be reckoned with on the world stage.

Then we lost something after the first Gulf Conflict - not sure if it was the so-called "Peace Dividend" resulting in career folks being forced out because there was no room for them, or what. Then came the events of 1996 where Congress forced a shutdown just because they could, and the feeling of "us against them" that has pervaded both the Legislative and Executive Branches since then.

Now we for the most part have a bunch of folks in Congress that are so scared of their parties they almost can't go use the head without having to ask "Mommy may I" from the party leadership.

Far as I'm concerned, we need to remember what has been going on at the polls in 2014 and 2016.

BURAWSKI
03-19-2013, 03:42 PM
America is in decline and has been for years. Our elected leaders are only part of the reason. It is hard for me to blame the public either since we've been lied to so much by the government. The changes I've seen have not been for the better either. It will take another big change to improve things. Whether that positive change comes in the form of a second American Revolution, or by the ballot box - well, only time will tell!

SeaLawyer
03-19-2013, 08:51 PM
America is in decline and has been for years. Our elected leaders are only part of the reason. It is hard for me to blame the public either since we've been lied to so much by the government. The changes I've seen have not been for the better either. It will take another big change to improve things. Whether that positive change comes in the form of a second American revolution, or voting - only time will tell.

Indeed B! I've wondered myself when the next revolution will take place. Sometimes it seems that's the only way true Americans will ever regain their share as a stakeholder in this country.

The average man can never be a Congressman because they don't have enough money to begin with. I wonder what Mount Rushmore would be saying right now if they could speak.

jconners [Stolen Valor]
03-19-2013, 09:25 PM
Decline of the US economically, culturally, etc...I have observed that we are being outperformed by many nations and NOT the result of our declining performance as much as other nations out performing the US in most ways measured...economically, standard of living, education, etc, etc. I have observed us in a status quo mode whereas the peoples of other coutries have been outworking, outstudying, out everything us...as if we are standing still. I observed this throughout my entire life...certainly noticed by/during the Vietnam war era and the 1980s were not an exception.

RobotChicken
03-19-2013, 10:19 PM
:spy The 'last war' has been fought! The 'war on drugs' is lost, same as in the '20's against the war on Canadian beer/booze. With our AF and political leaders (NAVY TOO) have sold our ship/aircraft production down the river to 'friendly countries'. F-35 tail sections built in the UK?? 48 states building one plane? Italian Diesel engines in mine sweepers that cannot handle trans Atlantic/Pacific tasking's?? Forward basing LCS cause they burn to much fuel and need one tanker to keep 4 underway? (take out the tanker,forget about the LCS's) And do NOT even think of repairing it over there,cause their ports will be taken out on the first attack. One does 'less with less', not more. So here's to the 'BLUE&GREY KOOL-AIDE type',......not to be confused with...... 'Fellow CONCERNED Airpeople and Shipmates'!! Airpeople...did I type that?? :typing :boom

tiredretiredE7
03-19-2013, 10:19 PM
So, there I was watching the news last night and drowning in sorrow over the financial posture and lackluster leadership of the United States. Every time I changed the channel, more news about the American crisis. In an attempt to turn a blind eye to the continual Congressional calamities, I decided to pick up the tangible, classic newspaper instead. Of course, this feeble attempt proved equally unworthy in my quest for something more patriotically uplifting.

What a sad recollection I then had: I pondered how proud I was to be an American back in the ‘80’s with a fearless President that was just as intimidating off the movie screen as he was on it back in his Death Valley Days. Seeing an American flag gave me goose bumps making it easy to walk tall when we pulled into foreign ports and walked off the bridge after saluting the American flag. It was like being a Hollywood star myself having people you don’t even know swarm around you wanting to know what it’s like to be from the United States.

While driving to work today, I took notice of all the American flags along the way and felt an overwhelming sadness of this Federal fecal typhoon we now endure. I mused myself even more on the forum threads I had with Quixotic, Chief Bosun, Robot Chicken, and garhkal about the naming of ships and what an afloat travesty that has become.

Can someone tell me what has happened over the past 20 years that has brought such seemingly mockery to our country with all the negative International headlines?

In other words, can someone provide please provide some verbal spirit and restore my pride and patriotism back to its original calibration?

We all know how I, “Sea Lawyer, “ likes to kick the hornet’s nest so, let’s make our own connotative run for Congress here!

Watch the online movie "Grinding Down America". Don't just google it for others views of the movie, watch the entire movie. The movie's claims have been validated by outside resources and proven to be true. The movie takes 90 minutes but the time flys by and all of your questions will be answered. I am troubled by the amount of Americans who just accept what America has become.

Robert F. Dorr
03-20-2013, 02:04 AM
I am troubled by the amount of Americans who just accept what America has become.

What do you expect from a country that has gone from almost 100% literacy in my lifetime to 75%?

RobotChicken
03-20-2013, 02:08 AM
What do you expect from a country that has gone from almost 100% literacy in my lifetime to 75%?
:eyebrows And THIS is what I :love about Bob....:brick TELLS it like it IS.......:typing

SeaLawyer
03-20-2013, 08:57 AM
What do you expect from a country that has gone from almost 100% literacy in my lifetime to 75%?

Now THAT's a great point Bob! I do; however, feel you are being generous with those numbers though. Then again, I guess it depends on the definition of "literate." There are plenty of people out there that have a college degree yet still seem illiterate. Your post certainly provokes more thought though!

SeaLawyer
03-20-2013, 09:03 AM
Watch the online movie "Grinding Down America". Don't just google it for others views of the movie, watch the entire movie. The movie's claims have been validated by outside resources and proven to be true. The movie takes 90 minutes but the time flys by and all of your questions will be answered. I am troubled by the amount of Americans who just accept what America has become.

Thanks a lot tiredretiredE7... I'm now engrossed with your recommended video. Going to have to watch it piecemeal but certainly has my attention. Thanks for the lead. On a side note, let me reciprocate and recommend "An American Carol" if you haven't seen it already. Came out in 2008 and it's about an anti-American filmmaker who's out to abolish the July Fourth holiday and is visited by three ghosts who try to change his perception of the country. It's starting to seem more a reality than a fictitious movie.

navyskcs
03-20-2013, 06:29 PM
So, there I was watching the news last night and drowning in sorrow over the financial posture and lackluster leadership of the United States. Every time I changed the channel, more news about the American crisis. In an attempt to turn a blind eye to the continual Congressional calamities, I decided to pick up the tangible, classic newspaper instead. Of course, this feeble attempt proved equally unworthy in my quest for something more patriotically uplifting.

What a sad recollection I then had: I pondered how proud I was to be an American back in the ‘80’s with a fearless President that was just as intimidating off the movie screen as he was on it back in his Death Valley Days. Seeing an American flag gave me goose bumps making it easy to walk tall when we pulled into foreign ports and walked off the bridge after saluting the American flag. It was like being a Hollywood star myself having people you don’t even know swarm around you wanting to know what it’s like to be from the United States.

While driving to work today, I took notice of all the American flags along the way and felt an overwhelming sadness of this Federal fecal typhoon we now endure. I mused myself even more on the forum threads I had with Quixotic, Chief Bosun, Robot Chicken, and garhkal about the naming of ships and what an afloat travesty that has become.

Can someone tell me what has happened over the past 20 years that has brought such seemingly mockery to our country with all the negative International headlines?

In other words, can someone provide please provide some verbal spirit and restore my pride and patriotism back to its original calibration?

We all know how I, “Sea Lawyer, “ likes to kick the hornet’s nest so, let’s make our own connotative run for Congress here!

Most of the problems that we see today have been around for decades. It's just that 30 years ago we all had to rely on what Walter Cronkite and Peter Jennings told us in 30 mins each night and what your printed Newspaper told us each morning, and what they said was final. You had to be a serious political and news junkie to find out what was really going on in our governement back then. Today, almost every american has access at their fingertips to hundreds and hundreds of news stories reported in social media, internet, and endless cable news channels.
It's a pretty safe bet to say that if we had the technology that we have today 30 years ago, then you can be sure that Carter, Reagan, and even the Clinton administrations, along with the congressional leaders at the time would have vastly different outcomes than the did as millions of people would have had instant access to the media like they due today.
With 330 milion of us today with almost as many opnions on how our society should be run and thousands of ways to express our opinions, It is going to be very difficult if not impossible for any politician to break through the barriers that need to be broken to get the country moving in "any" direction again.....

SeaLawyer
03-25-2013, 03:30 PM
Most of the problems that we see today have been around for decades. It's just that 30 years ago we all had to rely on what Walter Cronkite and Peter Jennings told us in 30 mins each night and what your printed Newspaper told us each morning, and what they said was final. You had to be a serious political and news junkie to find out what was really going on in our governement back then. Today, almost every american has access at their fingertips to hundreds and hundreds of news stories reported in social media, internet, and endless cable news channels.
It's a pretty safe bet to say that if we had the technology that we have today 30 years ago, then you can be sure that Carter, Reagan, and even the Clinton administrations, along with the congressional leaders at the time would have vastly different outcomes than the did as millions of people would have had instant access to the media like they due today.
With 330 milion of us today with almost as many opnions on how our society should be run and thousands of ways to express our opinions, It is going to be very difficult if not impossible for any politician to break through the barriers that need to be broken to get the country moving in "any" direction again.....

You make a great point regarding the technology at our fingertips, skcs! On the lighter side, the US was well aware of Carter's gas crisis back in the mid 70's as evidenced by the unbelievably long lines at the gas pumps. I agree, these issues have certainly plagued us for all these decades but the technology just seems to serve as an informational multiplier by compounding the issues at hand but, using this same technology, I can't seem to find a single electronic archive highlighting any of our former Presidents that have driven America to the economic catastrophe we now endure.

Steve45213
03-26-2013, 03:07 PM
I think we, as a nation, have lost our sense of shame and accountability for our actions. To the rest of the world we look like insufferable spoiled rich kids. Conduct that at one time made you the object of ridicule and the butt of jokes now gets you your own TV show.


Edit: typo

Greg
03-26-2013, 04:23 PM
I think we, as a nation, have lost our sense of shame and accountability for our actions. To the rest of the world we look like insufferable spoiled rich kids. Conduct that at one time made you the object of ridicule and the butt of jokes now gets you your own TV show.


Edit: typo

Sacre bleu!

CYBERFX1024
03-26-2013, 04:57 PM
I think we, as a nation, have lost our sense of shame and accountability for our actions. To the rest of the world we look like insufferable spoiled rich kids. Conduct that at one time made you the object of ridicule and the butt of jokes now gets you your own TV show.


Edit: typo


You are correct. The nation as it stands right now are made up of a majority of spoiled brats who want me me me. Whenever something doesn't go there way they want to complain and sue somebody for being discriminated against. The nation has become a nation of people wanting to do just enough to get by and still get rewarded like they did hard work.

thread_cop
03-26-2013, 05:07 PM
You are correct. The nation as it stands right now are made up of a majority of spoiled brats who want me me me. Whenever something doesn't go there way they want to complain and sue somebody for being discriminated against. The nation has become a nation of people wanting to do just enough to get by and still get rewarded like they did hard work.

And to further the problem, the rest have become accepting of this type of behavior; apologetic even. It's now okay for people to feel this way because if their behavior is corrected it may be detrimental to their development. The forced apethy in the country is killing us.

When people try to correct this sort of thing (eg. Bill Cosby) they are attacked.

The sad part is we could be so great. With our technology and opportunities the younger generation could thrive. They could become the envy of the world, as we used to have. Unfortunately, there is no drive, no discipline, no work ethic by the future generation.

SeaLawyer
03-27-2013, 02:38 PM
...Conduct that at one time made you the object of ridicule and the butt of jokes now gets you your own TV show...


Edit: typo

... Or a seat in Congress!

Chief Bosun
03-28-2013, 12:05 PM
I think we, as a nation, have lost our sense of shame and accountability for our actions. To the rest of the world we look like insufferable spoiled rich kids. Conduct that at one time made you the object of ridicule and the butt of jokes now gets you your own TV show.


Edit: typo

Concur. Add to that, we seem to be more concerned with the marital issues of someone with a dubious claim to fame instead of issues that cause lasting harm to people and impede the improvement of the standard of living of our population.

Also, we lost sight of what President Kennedy said about not asking what the country can do for you, but what you can do for your country. Too many seem to think they are owed a job that they like in a place where they want to live instead of realizing that you have to take what you get and do what it takes to earn the job you think you want and to afford a home in the place you think you want to live.

But then, I'm just a knuckle-dragger raised by parents who grew up in the midwest during the Great Depression, and lived in a time when everyone had to chip in to support the family instead of just being handed things by parents who didn't want their kids to go through what they went through.

Robert F. Dorr
04-19-2013, 07:48 PM
Now THAT's a great point Bob! I do; however, feel you are being generous with those numbers though. Then again, I guess it depends on the definition of "literate." There are plenty of people out there that have a college degree yet still seem illiterate. Your post certainly provokes more thought though!

Generous?

My number is from a survey that was limited to American-born, native speakers of American English. The study ruled out immigrants because many are literate in other languages. The study concluded that about 25 percent of adult Americans have significant difficulty reading, understanding, and acting upon a moderately complex sentence in the English language.

Want proof? Just Google "Military Times Forums." You'll be astonished at how much difficulty people have with spelling, punctuation, grammar and clarity. And these mofos are part of the 75 percent. Some of them even have copies of "MISSION TO TOKYO." As an author of books, magazines and newspaper columns I've been forced in recent years to explain terms that anyone would have understood earlier and to dumb down my texts for the median American adult of today.

sandsjames
04-19-2013, 08:17 PM
Generous?

My number is from a survey that was limited to American-born, native speakers of American English. The study ruled out immigrants because many are literate in other languages. The study concluded that about 25 percent of adult Americans have significant difficulty reading, understanding, and acting upon a moderately complex sentence in the English language.

Want proof? Just Google "Military Times Forums." You'll be astonished at how much difficulty people have with spelling, punctuation, grammar and clarity. And these mofos are part of the 75 percent. Some of them even have copies of "MISSION TO TOKYO." As an author of books, magazines and newspaper columns I've been forced in recent years to explain terms that anyone would have understood earlier and to dumb down my texts for the median American adult of today.

Luckily, though, the large majority of those you refer to as "illiterate" are able to use Google in order to find information necessary to them.

20+Years
04-19-2013, 08:50 PM
I honestly believe the downgrade has come from Americans allowing the minoirity to change our culture. One kid is offended by prayer in school... one kid is offended by the pledge of allegiance... we all know it was the parents pushing thier own progressive agendas onto the children. And we allowed it, some even encouraged it. Very sad.

I know many here disagree with the religion part, and thats fine. In my own mind I was just demonstrating at how we keep chipping away at what we had.

Vrake
04-20-2013, 11:54 AM
I think we, as a nation, have lost our sense of shame and accountability for our actions. To the rest of the world we look like insufferable spoiled rich kids. Conduct that at one time made you the object of ridicule and the butt of jokes now gets you your own TV show.


Edit: typo

VERY well said!!

And yet the rest of the world still looks to us as the first one for handouts. Our entitlement programs are broke internally, we can't even wrap ourselves around our own failures. We cant wait to give away money to keep our "status" in the worlds eye. Spend the money we give away here! Anything left over we will help.


Screw them in the goat arse, focus on what matters. If something flares up we will handle it. Lets quit giving money out and see who our true friends are. Put the rest to internal security by 50ft fences all along our borders.

Lets fix our problems on our own first then maybe help others.


There is a reason the dollar is the base for world currency lets act like it.

Banned
04-20-2013, 12:00 PM
I honestly believe the downgrade has come from Americans allowing the minoirity to change our culture. One kid is offended by prayer in school... one kid is offended by the pledge of allegiance... we all know it was the parents pushing thier own progressive agendas onto the children. And we allowed it, some even encouraged it. Very sad.

I know many here disagree with the religion part, and thats fine. In my own mind I was just demonstrating at how we keep chipping away at what we had.

Our Republican system is all about preventing the tyranny of the majority. The "under god" phrase was not in the original pledge of allegiance... it was pushed by evangelical fanatics after WWII who were scared of American children becoming socialists.

I say we embrace our progressive roots as an ever-changing and adapting country... not held back by fear and ideology.

sandsjames
04-20-2013, 12:24 PM
Our Republican system is all about preventing the tyranny of the majority. The "under god" phrase was not in the original pledge of allegiance... it was pushed by evangelical fanatics after WWII who were scared of American children becoming socialists.

I say we embrace our progressive roots as an ever-changing and adapting country... not held back by fear and ideology.

Can't you respond to what he ACTUALLY said instead of focusing only on the military reference that he stated was only being used as an example? I'll explain it to you.

He was pointing out that Americans are getting dumber because we are forced to dumb things down so as not to offend anyone. Can you comment on this point? Or are you just going to continue to make your irrelevant redundant points?

Banned
04-20-2013, 04:32 PM
Can't you respond to what he ACTUALLY said instead of focusing only on the military reference that he stated was only being used as an example? I'll explain it to you.

He was pointing out that Americans are getting dumber because we are forced to dumb things down so as not to offend anyone. Can you comment on this point? Or are you just going to continue to make your irrelevant redundant points?

Are you on drugs? Where did I even mention the military in my post? Where in that post I quoted did he even have the word "dumb"?

If anything, taking prayer and religious doctrination out of school makes us smarter, not dumber. The only reason you all want religion in school is because you happen to be the majority. I'll bet my next paycheck that if you became the minority religion - and Muslims or Hindus became the majority, you would be A LOT less excited about reading religious text and leading students in prayer!

garhkal
04-20-2013, 05:38 PM
I think we, as a nation, have lost our sense of shame and accountability for our actions. To the rest of the world we look like insufferable spoiled rich kids. Conduct that at one time made you the object of ridicule and the butt of jokes now gets you your own TV show.


Edit: typo

Part of that falls on the lawyers and congress for turning our country into IMO a cesspool for PCism, part of that falls on society for allowing it to happen and in some ways Demanding it to happen.



Also, we lost sight of what President Kennedy said about not asking what the country can do for you, but what you can do for your country. Too many seem to think they are owed a job that they like in a place where they want to live instead of realizing that you have to take what you get and do what it takes to earn the job you think you want and to afford a home in the place you think you want to live.

Its also imo partially the fact we have so much technology now days giving us Instant access to damn near anything we want, people feel they are entitled to everything else NOW NOW NOW!.. people have lost patience and the willingness to EARN it.

Banned
04-20-2013, 07:13 PM
So remind me again why requiring public leaders, teachers, law enforcement, etc - to exercise common sense when dealing with other cultures and groups is a bad thing?

Banned
04-20-2013, 07:36 PM
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/734032_606789849349260_23587298_n.jpg

garhkal
04-20-2013, 08:54 PM
Na// besides religion/state, there is also the segregation of tobacco users that seems acceptable.

efmbman
04-20-2013, 10:45 PM
Na// besides religion/state, there is also the segregation of tobacco users that seems acceptable.

Why would this not be acceptable? I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you are a smoker...?

garhkal
04-21-2013, 04:17 AM
Yes i am. So you think its ok to discriminate/segregate smokers/tobacco users?

sandsjames
04-21-2013, 04:30 AM
Yes i am. So you think its ok to discriminate/segregate smokers/tobacco users?

We are evil, don't ya know?

sandsjames
04-21-2013, 04:32 AM
Are you on drugs? Where did I even mention the military in my post? Where in that post I quoted did he even have the word "dumb"?

If anything, taking prayer and religious doctrination out of school makes us smarter, not dumber. The only reason you all want religion in school is because you happen to be the majority. I'll bet my next paycheck that if you became the minority religion - and Muslims or Hindus became the majority, you would be A LOT less excited about reading religious text and leading students in prayer!

Religion blah blah blah...that's not what the conversation is about, but that's the only place you can take it.

sandsjames
04-21-2013, 04:33 AM
Yes i am. So you think its ok to discriminate/segregate smokers/tobacco users?

We are evil, don't ya know?

efmbman
04-21-2013, 11:02 AM
Yes i am. So you think its ok to discriminate/segregate smokers/tobacco users?So you think it is ok that non-smokers often have no option other than to walk through a cloud of second-hand smoke when leaving or entering a building?So you think it is unfair that smokers are forced to smoke outside while non-smokers enjoy their meal in a smoke-free environment?

garhkal
04-21-2013, 06:12 PM
We are evil, don't ya know?

it does seem like we have taken over for lepers in that department.


So you think it is ok that non-smokers often have no option other than to walk through a cloud of second-hand smoke when leaving or entering a building?So you think it is unfair that smokers are forced to smoke outside while non-smokers enjoy their meal in a smoke-free environment?

I find it unfair that places which used to be able to decide themselves if they wanted to be smoking only, half/half, or non smoking only (commonly decided between the owner AND workers) now a days has No choice in the matter. IT WILL be non smoking period. I find it unfair that in several states you can not only be fired for smoking OUT OF WORK HOURS, but in many cases flat out get denyed a job there ("Don't bother applying for a job if you use tobacco"). I also find it unfair that a smoker cna live in place X for Y number of years, but as soon as a non smoker moves next door/down the corridor etc (Apartment communities) that smoker is the one forced out..

efmbman
04-21-2013, 07:47 PM
...I find it unfair that in several states you can not only be fired for smoking OUT OF WORK HOURS, but in many cases flat out get denyed a job there ("Don't bother applying for a job if you use tobacco")...Seriously? I have never even heard about that sort of qualification. Despite my position on the matter, it seems that would have been ripe for the ACLU hippies to take that one to court. If I may ask, where are you that you have seen that in an employer?

Greg
04-21-2013, 08:04 PM
This was plastered all over the local newspaper when this institution's policy first came out. The Cleveland Clinic is respected world-wide:

"As a health care institution, whose inherent mission is healing the sick and cultivating a healthier community, does it make sense to support a habit that leads to disease, disability and death?

At Cleveland Clinic, we don't believe so.

That's why we adopted a smoke-free campus in 2005 and why, in 2007, we went further, deciding to no longer hire smokers. Job candidates are told that the offer is subject to a nicotine-free urine test. If a candidate tests positive for nicotine, the offer is rescinded, and he or she is offered a free tobacco- cessation program and may reapply in 90 days."

For the record, I'm an ex-smoker. When I quit, on my second hitch, I was twenty-five and smoking two packs a day.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/opinion/story/2012-01-29/Cleveland-Clinic-not-hiring-smokers/52873896/1

efmbman
04-21-2013, 08:11 PM
Unreal... I guess it is their prerogative to employ whomever they wish, but that is over the top to me. Thanks for the link - I collect news stories that I find interesting for various reasons (mainly civil liberties) and that one went into the collection.

Greg
04-21-2013, 08:33 PM
Unreal... I guess it is their prerogative to employ whomever they wish, but that is over the top to me. Thanks for the link - I collect news stories that I find interesting for various reasons (mainly civil liberties) and that one went into the collection.

The Cleveland Clinic is a private institution with a sterling reputation, they may hire who they wish. If someone has a problem with one of their policies, don't apply.

If you are already an employee, either sharpen your resume, or work for effective change from within.

Banned
04-21-2013, 11:17 PM
Religion blah blah blah...that's not what the conversation is about, but that's the only place you can take it.

Fundies are hilarious. They demand that we put prayer in schools, and cry that atheists are singling out religion when we put up the BS flag.

This is the inherent flaw in the American Right's thinking - that patriotism and religion go hand in hand and you can't have national pride without the (Christian) god.

sandsjames
04-22-2013, 02:51 PM
Fundies are hilarious. They demand that we put prayer in schools, and cry that atheists are singling out religion when we put up the BS flag.

This is the inherent flaw in the American Right's thinking - that patriotism and religion go hand in hand and you can't have national pride without the (Christian) god.

Religion blah blah blah...

JD2780
04-22-2013, 03:29 PM
Fundies are hilarious. They demand that we put prayer in schools, and cry that atheists are singling out religion when we put up the BS flag.

This is the inherent flaw in the American Right's thinking - that patriotism and religion go hand in hand and you can't have national pride without the (Christian) god.

Yea fundies are funny. Demanding no dont pray in uniform or while on government time.

garhkal
04-22-2013, 10:58 PM
Seriously? I have never even heard about that sort of qualification. Despite my position on the matter, it seems that would have been ripe for the ACLU hippies to take that one to court. If I may ask, where are you that you have seen that in an employer?

Take a look at these 4 sites (the first 4 on the list that google shows for "How many firms won't hire smokers"..
http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/91034

http://www.hrmorning.com/ban-hiring-smokers/

http://neoneocon.com/2013/04/09/its-not-enough-to-banish-smoking-now-we-wont-hire-smokers/

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/industries/health/story/2012-01-03/health-care-jobs-no-smoking/52394782/1

you will see from the last link a map of the US for states that do NOT give any protections for workers against being 'discriminated' against just for being a tobacco user..

Here is also a link for florida specific areas that are that way at the city/state/regional level..

http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/florida-city-wont-hire-smokers-reasonable-or-ridiculous/question-3228657/?link=ibaf&q=&esrc=s

http://www.newser.com/story/155112/florida-city-we-wont-hire-smokers.html

http://www.city-data.com/forum/work-employment/1702824-news-florida-city-we-wont-hire.html

Pullinteeth
04-23-2013, 02:37 PM
Our Republican system is all about preventing the tyranny of the majority. The "under god" phrase was not in the original pledge of allegiance... it was pushed by evangelical fanatics after WWII who were scared of American children becoming socialists.

I say we embrace our progressive roots as an ever-changing and adapting country... not held back by fear and ideology.

At least you are consistant....never EVER let facts get in the way of your bashing of the right....

"Under God" was added February 12th 1948 by a friggin chaplain of the Sons of the American Revolution... In 1951, the Knights of Columbus started adding it. It spread and was adopted by the KoC. In 1953 a DEMOCRAT proposed legislation to officially add "Under God." Before you get into your nonsessical garbage about the Democrats of yesteryear being the Republicans of today, While Rabaut (D) introduced the legislation in the House, the final legislation was introduced by two Repulbicans in 1954 (Oakman and Ferguson) so no matter how you try to play this, you are WRONG, WRONG, WRONG...

20+Years
04-23-2013, 08:59 PM
So heres the deal Joe. You countered my earlier post (which was merely an example of the chipping away of our beliefs) by slamming the right. Ummm, ok. What if I told you that I could care less WHICH religion our country embraced so many years ago. It could be gopher worship for all it matters to me. What I want to see is a country that stands for some of the same things... whats the word I need here? Oh... UNITED. Not a country where one person disagrees and everyone else has to comply. That is ludicrus. In my opinion, we now stand united for nothing, and I believe it will get worse. Pretty much, I think Congress and the way they act and behave now are a great example of the American populace.

Anyone remember the ole saying, United we stand, divided we fall? Welcome to divided.

Measure Man
04-23-2013, 09:19 PM
At least you are consistant....never EVER let facts get in the way of your bashing of the right....

"Under God" was added February 12th 1948 by a friggin chaplain of the Sons of the American Revolution... In 1951, the Knights of Columbus started adding it. It spread and was adopted by the KoC. In 1953 a DEMOCRAT proposed legislation to officially add "Under God." Before you get into your nonsessical garbage about the Democrats of yesteryear being the Republicans of today, While Rabaut (D) introduced the legislation in the House, the final legislation was introduced by two Repulbicans in 1954 (Oakman and Ferguson) so no matter how you try to play this, you are WRONG, WRONG, WRONG...

What part was he wrong about?

"Under God, was not in the orignal plege--true

It was added 1948-1954...post WWII--true

The people who pushed for adding it were evangelicals--well, I don't know for sure if it's true or false, but we can at least assume they were Christians, I mean he was "a friggin chaplain"...being evangelicals exist even today in both the Democrat or Republican parties, and aren't most Christians somewhat evangelical?--at least partially true.

Scared of children becoming socialists...well, that appears to at least be part of the reasoning as the bill wa introduced to congress: "You may argue from dawn to dusk about differing political, economic, and social systems, but the fundamental issue which is the unbridgeable gap between America and Communist Russia is a belief in Almighty God. From the root of atheism stems the evil weed of communism and its branches of materialism and political dictatorship. Unless we are willing to affirm our belief in the existence of God and His creator-creature relation to man, we drop man himself to the significance of a grain of sand and open the floodgates to tyranny and oppression"---pretty much true

Measure Man
04-23-2013, 09:21 PM
Unreal... I guess it is their prerogative to employ whomever they wish, but that is over the top to me. Thanks for the link - I collect news stories that I find interesting for various reasons (mainly civil liberties) and that one went into the collection.

"Smoker" is not a protected category under Civil Rights legislation...so there is nothing illegal about discriminating against them.

garhkal
04-24-2013, 10:06 PM
But yet fat is (as to some its a disability)..

Pullinteeth
04-25-2013, 03:20 AM
What part was he wrong about?

"Under God, was not in the orignal plege--true

It was added 1948-1954...post WWII--true

The people who pushed for adding it were evangelicals--well, I don't know for sure if it's true or false, but we can at least assume they were Christians, I mean he was "a friggin chaplain"...being evangelicals exist even today in both the Democrat or Republican parties, and aren't most Christians somewhat evangelical?--at least partially true.

Scared of children becoming socialists...well, that appears to at least be part of the reasoning as the bill wa introduced to congress: "You may argue from dawn to dusk about differing political, economic, and social systems, but the fundamental issue which is the unbridgeable gap between America and Communist Russia is a belief in Almighty God. From the root of atheism stems the evil weed of communism and its branches of materialism and political dictatorship. Unless we are willing to affirm our belief in the existence of God and His creator-creature relation to man, we drop man himself to the significance of a grain of sand and open the floodgates to tyranny and oppression"---pretty much true

DAMN YOU VOICE OF REASON!!!

Banned
04-25-2013, 03:04 PM
So heres the deal Joe. You countered my earlier post (which was merely an example of the chipping away of our beliefs) by slamming the right. Ummm, ok. What if I told you that I could care less WHICH religion our country embraced so many years ago. It could be gopher worship for all it matters to me. What I want to see is a country that stands for some of the same things... whats the word I need here? Oh... UNITED. Not a country where one person disagrees and everyone else has to comply. That is ludicrus. In my opinion, we now stand united for nothing, and I believe it will get worse. Pretty much, I think Congress and the way they act and behave now are a great example of the American populace.

Anyone remember the ole saying, United we stand, divided we fall? Welcome to divided.

So by "United" you mean everyone forced to comply with one ideology? I don't buy it.

sandsjames
04-25-2013, 03:47 PM
So by "United" you mean everyone forced to comply with one ideology? I don't buy it.


You don't feel that if we all agreed with your ideology that we'd be in a better place?

Banned
04-27-2013, 04:11 AM
You don't feel that if we all agreed with your ideology that we'd be in a better place?

For starters, you're confusing "ideology" with "facts and science". Secondly, we should know better than to establish a state religion when we have seen that establishing a state religion has led to tyranny, genocide, and many other massive human rights abuses every single time it has ever been tried throughout human history.

JD2780
04-27-2013, 11:11 AM
Joe has said it over and over again. If. You believe in religion you're an idiot. Oh well.

sandsjames
04-27-2013, 02:02 PM
For starters, you're confusing "ideology" with "facts and science". Secondly, we should know better than to establish a state religion when we have seen that establishing a state religion has led to tyranny, genocide, and many other massive human rights abuses every single time it has ever been tried throughout human history.

Religion blah blah blah...once again, please come with a different game to at least make things slightly interesting. Your comments are as interesting as RFD's constant plugs and grammar corrections. Maybe interesting in the beginning but well past their expiration date.

Banned
04-27-2013, 02:10 PM
Religion blah blah blah...once again, please come with a different game to at least make things slightly interesting. Your comments are as interesting as RFD's constant plugs and grammar corrections. Maybe interesting in the beginning but well past their expiration date.

Sure buddy. Go ahead and get butthurt whenever anyone challenges your religious agenda. Go play with the Taliban, they would agree with you on most things.

Banned
04-27-2013, 02:22 PM
And we wonder why America is dicked up today.

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/529143_561871927190996_296915593_n.jpg

Greg
04-27-2013, 03:09 PM
And we wonder why America is dicked up today.

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/529143_561871927190996_296915593_n.jpg

A left-handed person trying to write right-handed.

sandsjames
04-27-2013, 04:20 PM
Sure buddy. Go ahead and get butthurt whenever anyone challenges your religious agenda. Go play with the Taliban, they would agree with you on most things.

Not butt hurt at all. Just bored, again, with your standard rhetoric.

sandsjames
04-28-2013, 02:19 PM
You're loyal to a tribal god worshipped by primitives. I'm loyal to the ideals of the nation. Have a good day.

Of which nation? I will have a good day. And I'll pray for you, Joe.

Banned
04-28-2013, 02:20 PM
You're loyal to a tribal god worshipped by primitives. I'm loyal to the ideals of the nation. Have a good day.

sandsjames
04-28-2013, 02:23 PM
You're loyal to a tribal god worshipped by primitives. I'm loyal to the ideals of the nation. Have a good day.

Of which nation? I will have a good day. And I'll pray for you, Joe.

Banned
04-28-2013, 03:47 PM
Of which nation? I will have a good day. And I'll pray for you, Joe.

Don't pray for me... pray for the millions without health or dental care. Pray for the children going to bed hungry. Pray for the people terrorized by gangs armed with military-grade weapons. Pray for the innocent people locked up in CIA torture camps. Pray for the workers getting black lung and a myriad of other easily preventable illnesses because their employers are blatantly ignoring safety and health regulations.

sandsjames
04-28-2013, 07:38 PM
Don't pray for me... pray for the millions without health or dental care. Pray for the children going to bed hungry. Pray for the people terrorized by gangs armed with military-grade weapons. Pray for the innocent people locked up in CIA torture camps. Pray for the workers getting black lung and a myriad of other easily preventable illnesses because their employers are blatantly ignoring safety and health regulations.

I already pray for most of those, but I will pray for you as well.

Banned
04-28-2013, 08:32 PM
I already pray for most of those, but I will pray for you as well.

God is a very busy man. Just don't pray too hard... because he might solve the problem by dropping an asteroid on the United States.

sandsjames
04-28-2013, 09:00 PM
God is a very busy man. Just don't pray too hard... because he might solve the problem by dropping an asteroid on the United States.

Well then, I'll pray that he doesn't do that, then I'll pray for you again.

Banned
04-28-2013, 11:28 PM
Well then, I'll pray that he doesn't do that, then I'll pray for you again.

Good. Make sure you're on your knees when you do it... he gets his rocks off on that.

Stalwart
04-30-2013, 02:14 PM
he gets his rocks off on that.

Or she ... depending on your particular belief.

JD2780
04-30-2013, 02:14 PM
I've been praying or JB for quite sometime. God loves projects.

Greg
04-30-2013, 02:40 PM
I've been praying or JB for quite sometime. God loves projects.

My God usually has me do my own work. Damn!

Banned
04-30-2013, 03:41 PM
Or she ... depending on your particular belief.

A self hating woman... I suppose there is some logic to this.


I've been praying or JB for quite sometime. God loves projects.

...Projects that don't involve actually improving the world or saving anyone from starvation, disease, or war.

Pullinteeth
05-01-2013, 02:32 AM
For starters, you're confusing "ideology" with "facts and science". Secondly, we should know better than to establish a state religion when we have seen that establishing a state religion has led to tyranny, genocide, and many other massive human rights abuses every single time it has ever been tried throughout human history.

I agree completely but cannot understand why you support other theocracies?

Banned
05-01-2013, 03:34 AM
I agree completely but cannot understand why you support other theocracies?

I'm not entirely sure what country you're referring to... but in general principle, yes - its not our place to tell other nations what governments they should have.