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eman_osan
03-18-2013, 06:59 AM
After the last escapade, you'd think folks would learn.

http://www.stripes.com/news/pacific/bad-behavior-in-the-pacific/s-korean-police-to-arrest-suspect-in-stabbing-of-us-troops-1.212103


http://rokdrop.com/2013/03/17/two-gis-in-two-separate-incidents-assault-korean-police-is-usfk-about-to-institute-some-draconian-measures-in-response/

tiredretiredE7
03-18-2013, 02:01 PM
After the last escapade, you'd think folks would learn.

http://www.stripes.com/news/pacific/bad-behavior-in-the-pacific/s-korean-police-to-arrest-suspect-in-stabbing-of-us-troops-1.212103


http://rokdrop.com/2013/03/17/two-gis-in-two-separate-incidents-assault-korean-police-is-usfk-about-to-institute-some-draconian-measures-in-response/

Go Army! Army Strong! Oh, wait... these idiots will be going to jail. Which branch did the drive-by with a BB gun and then a highspeed chase? J/K. The Army made being in the ROK a lot more fun.

RFScott
03-18-2013, 02:12 PM
Eman,

If you are still at Osan, I would suspect that the wing will be having a Stand-down day in which your squadron will be meeting at the O-Club, base theater, or some other venue on base in which you will have the same old crap you see in AFN commercials drilled into your head (I am speaking from personal experience on this one).

That being said, something about the first story still seems fishy. When the article first came out in Stripes, my suspicions were immediately stoked by the quote from the bar owner about being provoked into a fight after being accused of hiring prostitutes. Either way, it doesn't look good when one of your fellow soldiers pulls a knife on you and a brawl ensues in the streets of Dongducheon.

RFScott
03-18-2013, 02:55 PM
And the shit comes rolling back down the hill now...at least for the 2ID:

http://www.stripes.com/news/pacific/korea/2id-commander-cracks-down-after-recent-rash-of-misconduct-1.212158

"Among the provisions indefinitely put in place Sunday by the commander were:

Suspension of alcohol consumption.
Termination of all three- and four-day weekend passes, and a complete review of the pass policy.
A review of all soldiers who have had past instances of misconduct.
Leadership seminars that will be held focusing on discipline and its relationship to the division’s readiness. Everyone in the division will be subject to responsible-conduct training in the days ahead."

JD2780
03-18-2013, 03:05 PM
And the shit comes rolling back down the hill now...at least for the 2ID:

http://www.stripes.com/news/pacific/korea/2id-commander-cracks-down-after-recent-rash-of-misconduct-1.212158

"Among the provisions indefinitely put in place Sunday by the commander were:

Suspension of alcohol consumption.
Termination of all three- and four-day weekend passes, and a complete review of the pass policy.
A review of all soldiers who have had past instances of misconduct.
Leadership seminars that will be held focusing on discipline and its relationship to the division’s readiness. Everyone in the division will be subject to responsible-conduct training in the days ahead."

2ID has had a rough go the last few yrs. Between stuff in Korea, the muderous squad from 4BDE and the SSG going batshit crazy and slaughtering folks in the village. The division commanders that have been goign through there must be face palming every time they read the news.

OtisRNeedleman
03-18-2013, 06:19 PM
As usual, piss-poor Army "leadership" punishes the many for the misdeeds of a very few. REAL leadership would have been to say something like, "The vast majority of you do a great job and are a credit to the Army and the nation. A few of you have gotten into trouble downtown. They're facing UCMJ action. While I trust you to act responsibly downtown, if you cause trouble I'll come down on you like a ton of bricks."

JD2780
03-18-2013, 06:58 PM
As usual, piss-poor Army "leadership" punishes the many for the misdeeds of a very few. REAL leadership would have been to say something like, "The vast majority of you do a great job and are a credit to the Army and the nation. A few of you have gotten into trouble downtown. They're facing UCMJ action. While I trust you to act responsibly downtown, if you cause trouble I'll come down on you like a ton of bricks."

AF does the same exact thing these days. I mean the EXACTLY THE SAME THING!!

OtisRNeedleman
03-18-2013, 10:04 PM
AF does the same exact thing these days. I mean the EXACTLY THE SAME THING!!

Undoubtedly, and AF "leadership" is just as piss-poor.

KellyinAvon
03-18-2013, 11:03 PM
Well, let's recap: 2ID types times 2 assault of Korean Police Officers. "Mr. Lee" (no doubt the most common surname in the ROK this side of Kim) stabbed some drunk GI's who were helping the drunk spouse of another GI. Armed with a plastic bat, ain't quite figured that one out yet.

eman_osan
03-18-2013, 11:45 PM
Here's the follow-up from the 2ID Commander:http://www.stripes.com/news/pacific/korea/2id-commander-cracks-down-after-recent-rash-of-misconduct-1.212158


Eman,

If you are still at Osan, I would suspect that the wing will be having a Stand-down day in which your squadron will be meeting at the O-Club, base theater, or some other venue on base in which you will have the same old crap you see in AFN commercials drilled into your head (I am speaking from personal experience on this one).

That being said, something about the first story still seems fishy. When the article first came out in Stripes, my suspicions were immediately stoked by the quote from the bar owner about being provoked into a fight after being accused of hiring prostitutes. Either way, it doesn't look good when one of your fellow soldiers pulls a knife on you and a brawl ensues in the streets of Dongducheon.

JD2780
03-19-2013, 01:47 AM
Undoubtedly, and AF "leadership" is just as piss-poor.

True. We dont have leaders. We have managers

eman_osan
03-19-2013, 03:10 AM
I don't have to worry about it. Retired and no curfews for me.


Eman,

If you are still at Osan, I would suspect that the wing will be having a Stand-down day in which your squadron will be meeting at the O-Club, base theater, or some other venue on base in which you will have the same old crap you see in AFN commercials drilled into your head (I am speaking from personal experience on this one).

That being said, something about the first story still seems fishy. When the article first came out in Stripes, my suspicions were immediately stoked by the quote from the bar owner about being provoked into a fight after being accused of hiring prostitutes. Either way, it doesn't look good when one of your fellow soldiers pulls a knife on you and a brawl ensues in the streets of Dongducheon.

Rizzo77
03-19-2013, 04:02 AM
As usual, piss-poor Army "leadership" punishes the many for the misdeeds of a very few. REAL leadership would have been to say something like, "The vast majority of you do a great job and are a credit to the Army and the nation. A few of you have gotten into trouble downtown. They're facing UCMJ action. While I trust you to act responsibly downtown, if you cause trouble I'll come down on you like a ton of bricks."

I was on the peninsula in the mid-2000s in a unit in which a few guys behaved badly. Following an incident in which a drunk guy entered the (unlocked) door of a young female servicemember and cuddled with her, the entire battalion was sent to a formation in which the battalion commander said, and I quote "You men can't control yourselves. I will control you." We were then sentenced to not only an alcohol ban, but an 1800 curfew. I lived off post with my family and didn't go to the ville, so it didn't affect me. I felt that the young soldiers were unjustly punished, though, and DID resent the blanket accusation that all men are perpetrators. That a LTC stood in front of his battalion and publicly accused all of his Soldiers of impropriety was unprofessional and not worthy of a man put in charge of hundreds of Soldiers.

OtisRNeedleman
03-19-2013, 06:13 AM
I was on the peninsula in the mid-2000s in a unit in which a few guys behaved badly. Following an incident in which a drunk guy entered the (unlocked) door of a young female servicemember and cuddled with her, the entire battalion was sent to a formation in which the battalion commander said, and I quote "You men can't control yourselves. I will control you." We were then sentenced to not only an alcohol ban, but an 1800 curfew. I lived off post with my family and didn't go to the ville, so it didn't affect me. I felt that the young soldiers were unjustly punished, though, and DID resent the blanket accusation that all men are perpetrators. That a LTC stood in front of his battalion and publicly accused all of his Soldiers of impropriety was unprofessional and not worthy of a man put in charge of hundreds of Soldiers.

Indeed. Guess it was just too much work to exercise real leadership.

KellyinAvon
03-19-2013, 09:37 AM
I was on the peninsula in the mid-2000s in a unit in which a few guys behaved badly. Following an incident in which a drunk guy entered the (unlocked) door of a young female servicemember and cuddled with her, the entire battalion was sent to a formation in which the battalion commander said, and I quote "You men can't control yourselves. I will control you." We were then sentenced to not only an alcohol ban, but an 1800 curfew. I lived off post with my family and didn't go to the ville, so it didn't affect me. I felt that the young soldiers were unjustly punished, though, and DID resent the blanket accusation that all men are perpetrators. That a LTC stood in front of his battalion and publicly accused all of his Soldiers of impropriety was unprofessional and not worthy of a man put in charge of hundreds of Soldiers.

Well said Rizzo.

Shrike
03-19-2013, 12:39 PM
I was on the peninsula in the mid-2000s in a unit in which a few guys behaved badly. Following an incident in which a drunk guy entered the (unlocked) door of a young female servicemember and cuddled with her, the entire battalion was sent to a formation in which the battalion commander said, and I quote "You men can't control yourselves. I will control you." We were then sentenced to not only an alcohol ban, but an 1800 curfew. I lived off post with my family and didn't go to the ville, so it didn't affect me. I felt that the young soldiers were unjustly punished, though, and DID resent the blanket accusation that all men are perpetrators. That a LTC stood in front of his battalion and publicly accused all of his Soldiers of impropriety was unprofessional and not worthy of a man put in charge of hundreds of Soldiers.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

efmbman
03-19-2013, 10:13 PM
I was on the peninsula in the mid-2000s in a unit in which a few guys behaved badly. Following an incident in which a drunk guy entered the (unlocked) door of a young female servicemember and cuddled with her, the entire battalion was sent to a formation in which the battalion commander said, and I quote "You men can't control yourselves. I will control you." We were then sentenced to not only an alcohol ban, but an 1800 curfew. I lived off post with my family and didn't go to the ville, so it didn't affect me. I felt that the young soldiers were unjustly punished, though, and DID resent the blanket accusation that all men are perpetrators. That a LTC stood in front of his battalion and publicly accused all of his Soldiers of impropriety was unprofessional and not worthy of a man put in charge of hundreds of Soldiers.

I think there may be something that the senior leaders of the Army are not considering.

We have been at war since late 2001, so let's call it 11 years for the sake of argument. In 11 years a lot can happen. One of the things that certainly happened is that LTs are probably LTCs by now. Also, E4s are probalby E7s. That's the cornerstone of leadership in the Army. These are people that were junior officers and NCOs when the war started and probably had multiple deployments to the combat zones. They are well trained and prepared to lead troops in the combat zone. Back home in garrison, not so much. The art of influencing subordinates to do the right thing when no one is looking is lost. It may be a decade before that art is returned to the leadership of the Army. On a more dpressing note, these leaders that are lacking today will be the Generals and Sergeants Major in 5-6 years.

efmbman
03-19-2013, 10:13 PM
I was on the peninsula in the mid-2000s in a unit in which a few guys behaved badly. Following an incident in which a drunk guy entered the (unlocked) door of a young female servicemember and cuddled with her, the entire battalion was sent to a formation in which the battalion commander said, and I quote "You men can't control yourselves. I will control you." We were then sentenced to not only an alcohol ban, but an 1800 curfew. I lived off post with my family and didn't go to the ville, so it didn't affect me. I felt that the young soldiers were unjustly punished, though, and DID resent the blanket accusation that all men are perpetrators. That a LTC stood in front of his battalion and publicly accused all of his Soldiers of impropriety was unprofessional and not worthy of a man put in charge of hundreds of Soldiers.

I think there may be something that the senior leaders of the Army are not considering.

We have been at war since late 2001, so let's call it 11 years for the sake of argument. In 11 years a lot can happen. One of the things that certainly happened is that LTs are probably LTCs by now. Also, E4s are probalby E7s. That's the cornerstone of leadership in the Army. These are people that were junior officers and NCOs when the war started and probably had multiple deployments to the combat zones. They are well trained and prepared to lead troops in the combat zone. Back home in garrison, not so much. The art of influencing subordinates to do the right thing when no one is looking is lost. It may be a decade before that art is returned to the leadership of the Army. On a more dpressing note, these leaders that are lacking today will be the Generals and Sergeants Major in 5-6 years.

eman_osan
03-20-2013, 03:25 AM
From the AFN Osan Face Book page. A message 51st Fighter Wing Commander Col Patrick McKenzie. Remember to always be responsible and set a good example off base!
-SrA Katie Johnson

One of the highlights of being an Airmen is being part of a group of dedicated professionals who are committed to the high standards that not only set us a part, but are expected by those we defend.

... At Osan last weekend alone, we had 6 service members who were highly intoxicated, drunk and disorderly, and eventually required medical attention as a result of the amount of alcohol they consumed; clearly they were not meeting standards.

Over the past couple of weeks members of USFK have exercised poor judgment and failed to meet standards. We had Soldiers shoot an Air Soft Gun into a gathering of people in Itaewon, we had an Airmen approach a Korean National and show her indecent pictures from his i-Phone, and we had Soldiers get into a knife fight with a local merchant.

These incidents have cast a dark shadow across all of us and damaged the image of Americans to our hosts; and each will require significant time to heal that damage. In addition, the fresh wounds caused by these recent incidents have served to reopen old wounds (the handcuffing incident from July has recently resurfaced in local papers).

We are entering a perfect storm this THREE day weekend with the end of USFK's Key Resolve Exercise (which also includes the lifting of GO-1 for the participants) and the end of Exercise Beverly Midnight 13-2.

I need you to reach out to your Airmen and have the discussion about the importance of our standards and holding each other accountable to what makes us great!