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View Full Version : The Navy only made a mistake ONCE!!!!



LTwife
03-14-2013, 10:11 PM
So I'm doing a little research into the Board of Corrections of Naval Records, an entity that is supposed to protect the rights of sailors and remove unjust items for Naval Records.
I'm interested in this because my husband received a DFC from an abusive CO ( bragged about punching subordinate and getting away with it, gave every officer on the ship an LOI etc.) Every JAG we talked to said my husband had an iron clad case to BCNR because apart from the fact that the accusations were unsubstantiated the CO also did not follow basic PERS instructions for DFC. We were SHOCKED when the DFC was not overturned.
Then I found this little nugget on the Navy Times....
http://www.navytimes.com/news/2011/06/navy-unfired-tucker-detached-persistent-062011w/
Only ONE DFC has been overturned in at least 30 years?!?!?! Maybe ever?!?!?! WHAT THE WHAT?!?!?
So I'm supposed to believe that only ONE person in Navy has been wrongly fired since the BCNR was established in 1945? Sounds like a broken system if you ask me.
And before you say, "yes but DFCs are very rare" consider this....
The CO gave five DFCs in the course of a year. The COMDESRON that my husband was sent to was packed with people DFCd for things ranging from adultery to failed shipboard inspections.
Why isn't anyone investigating the BCNR?

SeaLawyer
03-15-2013, 01:48 AM
1) First off, "LTwife": Don't expect much support when you use your husband's rank as part of your own personal user name. It's as though you're trying to boast. I'd disown my wife if she had a log-in name "CDRwife" (my wife is senior to you because of my rank). Get my point?

2) If your hubby's CO "DFC'd" people for adultery to failed shipboard inspections, you'd better be damn sure your hubby LT isn't hiding something before you go flinging mud. He may be innocent; however, I've known a few in my time that were given "DFC's" for affairs but asked to have it "disguised" in their write-up as a favor to salvage their marriage. Again, I don't know your "LThusband's" whole story but, DFC's aren't a sole action of the CO. These do get reviewed and validated from above his CO.

3) Before a CO can give a DFC (as part of above) he has to have substantial evidence to support his/her rationale. Again, something like this doesn't stick if the CO didn't forward significant evidence with the DFC. I think you need to have a hard ball conversation with LThubby before you enter the forum pointing fingers on his behalf.

4) Don't forget to change your user name. Trying to pull rank in any fashion in this forum will get you nowhere fast. At the very least, it's a magnet for bastards like me to let you know LT's wive's are a dime a dozen and don't have a lick of common sense when they try to leverage their husband's rank for their own personal gain.

Have a fine Navy Day!

LTwife
03-15-2013, 02:39 AM
Sorry if my tag offended you or anyone else. Only lack of creativity and not "wearing my husband's rank."
So my honest questioning of a PROCEDURE means that you have a personal obligation to belittle and insult me? Picking on a woman, nicely played.
I am a "dime a dozen" when it comes to being married to someone in the military but am also the rare wife to who trying to make sense of the loss of career my husband loved. And yes I've read the DFC as well as written statements from several sources about the command climate.
Let me put it in this context sea lawyer....you know the "horrible Holly Graf" who was fired from USS Cowpins for cruelty to subordinates? What happened to all the people she fired? It appears their DFCs were not overturned. And can you honestly tell me that the Navy didn't know she was a nut job until AFTER she took command of that ship.

RobotChicken
03-15-2013, 02:43 AM
:doh Please don't push...you cannot have 'equal rights' and want 90% of 'em.......:clock

garhkal
03-15-2013, 03:53 AM
What the heck is a DFC?

BURAWSKI
03-15-2013, 04:48 AM
I don't think he was belittling or insulting you. I think he was just trying to tell you the reality of the situation.

RobotChicken
03-15-2013, 04:52 AM
:spy 'Catch-22' Detachment For Cause'....:smash

Stalwart
03-15-2013, 09:24 AM
As was said earlier, when some is detached for cause the detachment, circumstances surrounding it and leading up to it are examined and adjudicated and finalized, I once saw the review process take almost 18 months but in the end it was upheld.


you know the "horrible Holly Graf" who was fired from USS Cowpins for cruelty to subordinates? What happened to all the people she fired? It appears their DFCs were not overturned.

Just because CAPT Graf or any other Commanding Officer is relieved does not mean that anyone they detached for cause (misconduct, poor judgment, the subordinate’s inability to complete assigned duties etc.) immediately gets a reprieve. Bad Commanders also have less than standard people that work for them; if your Command is lacking you are still expected to perform your duties to a satisfactory standard -- even people who love their jobs may not be able to meet that standard. There are avenues for your husband to pursue if he thinks he has a case, if he has not he may be quietly and personally acknowledging that he fell short, if he doesn’t know what they are he needs to do some research.

Stalwart
03-15-2013, 09:25 AM
double post

perpetual_staff_weenie
03-15-2013, 12:57 PM
So my honest questioning of a PROCEDURE means that you have a personal obligation to belittle and insult me? Picking on a woman, nicely played.

Belittle? Insult? Are you always this sensitive (and annoying)?

Don't come here and play the "woman card". :ohwell

garhkal
03-15-2013, 06:14 PM
:spy 'Catch-22' Detachment For Cause'....:smash

Thanks.

So to boil it down, your hubby did something warranting a capt mast where he got discharged, and you feel he should be able to get it overturned?

SeaLawyer
03-18-2013, 12:08 AM
So I'm doing a little research into the Board of Corrections of Naval Records, an entity that is supposed to protect the rights of sailors and remove unjust items for Naval Records.
I'm interested in this because my husband received a DFC from an abusive CO ( bragged about punching subordinate and getting away with it, gave every officer on the ship an LOI etc.) Every JAG we talked to said my husband had an iron clad case to BCNR because apart from the fact that the accusations were unsubstantiated the CO also did not follow basic PERS instructions for DFC. We were SHOCKED when the DFC was not overturned.
Then I found this little nugget on the Navy Times....
http://www.navytimes.com/news/2011/06/navy-unfired-tucker-detached-persistent-062011w/
Only ONE DFC has been overturned in at least 30 years?!?!?! Maybe ever?!?!?! WHAT THE WHAT?!?!?
So I'm supposed to believe that only ONE person in Navy has been wrongly fired since the BCNR was established in 1945? Sounds like a broken system if you ask me.
And before you say, "yes but DFCs are very rare" consider this....
The CO gave five DFCs in the course of a year. The COMDESRON that my husband was sent to was packed with people DFCd for things ranging from adultery to failed shipboard inspections.
Why isn't anyone investigating the BCNR?

Look "LTwife," Perhaps I was a bit too harsh on you but I want you to understand the many Junior Sailors that come here looking for advice and want it without it without "ranks."

Like I said, your hubby may have a legitimate complaint. If so, have him collaborate with all the other J.O.'s from his command and form a class act complaint. Even Holly Graf--the crappy CO she was--had to provide substantiated evidence to fry someone. The only difference with her was: People made the same mistakes, she would just fry them for the most minute thing--the fact of the matter is, they still made mistakes she held them accountable for... Mistakes the average person would oversee. She made mountains out of mole-hills.

If you want to do your "LThubby" a favor, have him get together with all of his colleagues from the ship. If they all stick together, they may get this over-turned... if legitimate. Perhaps you can even send BURAWSKI a personal message. He is very wise in the Navy administrative ways!

Meanwhile, and again, my apologies... I just want you to have consideration for the others that come here seeking advice.

Sincerely,
"Sea Lawyer"

forcedj
03-18-2013, 02:44 PM
OK, I am not any sort of legal expert, but couldn’t doing what you’re suggesting have the potential of becoming a UCMJ Article 94 (Mutiny and Sedition) against the accusers? If the LTHubby “collaborates” it may look like mutiny. But if he has legal representation doing it…?

Dan



Like I said, your hubby may have a legitimate complaint. If so, have him collaborate with all the other J.O.'s from his command and form a class act complaint....

...If you want to do your "LThubby" a favor, have him get together with all of his colleagues from the ship. If they all stick together, they may get this over-turned... if legitimate.
Sincerely,
"Sea Lawyer"


Dan

SeaLawyer
03-18-2013, 03:11 PM
Good point forcedj! Not to create a mutiny; however, under lawful legal guidance--I might/should add--he may have the required support via witness testimony to support his side of the story.

Grazie and great point with the counter post!!!

BURAWSKI
03-18-2013, 03:15 PM
Good point forcedj! Not to create a mutiny; however, under lawful legal guidance--I might/should add--he may have the required support via witness testimony to support his side of the story.

Grazie and great point with the counter post!!!


Not knowing the specifics of the case the best solution might be for both of them to contact legal assistance and talk to either a JAG or civilian attorney who is well versed in BCNR/DFC issues.

SeaLawyer
03-18-2013, 03:31 PM
Not knowing the specifics of the case the best solution might be for both of them to contact legal assistance and talk to either a JAG or civilian attorney who is well versed in BCNR/DFC issues.


... Perhaps you can even send BURAWSKI a personal message. He is very wise in the Navy administrative ways!

See... I knew you were wise in the ways, B!!!

CaliMC
03-19-2013, 04:38 PM
DFC can be a very lengthy process. Just because someone is removed from an activity pending DFC doesn't mean the DFC is ultimately approved by NPC. Because of the severity and advere impact on the individual officer's career, DFC's undergo a very stringent screening process before being finally approved. Many individuals removed pending DFC are exonerated or the DFC request is withdrawn during the review process. So only having 1 overturned via BCNR wouldn't surprise me.

Pullinteeth
03-19-2013, 05:10 PM
Only ONE DFC has been overturned in at least 30 years?!?!?! Maybe ever?!?!?! WHAT THE WHAT?!?!?
So I'm supposed to believe that only ONE person in Navy has been wrongly fired since the BCNR was established in 1945? Sounds like a broken system if you ask me.

You are of course aware that the article YOU posted says nothing of the sort? It does say this was the first successful case in at least 30 years but doesn't say that the one 30 years ago was the only one in the last 68 years (as you claim it was).


As was said earlier, when some is detached for cause the detachment, circumstances surrounding it and leading up to it are examined and adjudicated and finalized, I once saw the review process take almost 18 months but in the end it was upheld.

So what you are saying is that due to the fact tht it takes so long to do one and go through the appeals process that usually they get it right and the BCMR isn't neccessary? I am actually asking cause that seems like what you are saying and that could be a reason why there has only been once successful in 30 years...

MilPhD
03-19-2013, 07:26 PM
The fact an officer's wife had to post on an Internet forum to fight his battles speaks volumes, in my mind.

I am curious if he knows of her actions.

RobotChicken
03-19-2013, 07:30 PM
The fact an officer's wife had to post on an Internet forum to fight his battles speaks volumes, in my mind.

I am curious if he knows of her actions.
Can he be 'trolling around' in her skirt? :suspicious

Pullinteeth
03-19-2013, 07:36 PM
The fact an officer's wife had to post on an Internet forum to fight his battles speaks volumes, in my mind.

I am curious if he knows of her actions.

HA! If you think THAT is bad, you should ask anyone that had been around for a while about "She who we do not speak of." THAT was a military spouse trying to fight her hubby's battles on an internet forum...