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CommunityEditor
03-12-2013, 12:49 PM
DoD urges ‘significant’ tuition assistance cuts

By Jeff Schogol - Staff writer
Posted : Friday Mar 8, 2013 10:04:02 EST

The Air Force is considering whether to curtail tuition assistance after the Defense Department told all of the services to consider cutting funding for the program, officials said.

The Army and Marine Corps have both decided to suspend their tuition assistance programs. Soldiers and Marines can finish the current semester, but the services are not allowing new enrollments. ... Click here (http://www.navytimes.com/news/2013/03/air-force-tuition-assistance-030813w/)to read the rest of the story.

*****

Are there better ways to trim costs?

AIRborne184
03-12-2013, 01:11 PM
This is crazy making all of these cuts. This will not stop the wasteful spending. Going to school while serving this great country is one of the greatest things that can be offered to us as a military member. To have our elected officials to drop this is a disgrace to the uniform. Benefits are earned as a member of service to our country. This needs to be fixed. Cutting jobs and education are not the way to do it. The mess that is going on has to be fixed before people start losing their homes, cars and everything in life they worked hard to get. We are all in a mess that the common soldier or American citizen has no say so. Stop blaming each other’s parties and fix this mess. We are Americans lets act like it. We are better than this stop cutting earned benefits and job hours.

MSG(Ret.)

imported_WILDJOKER5
03-12-2013, 04:07 PM
The one thing in the budget that is actually mandated by the constitution is taking the biggest cuts while Obama plays gold with Tiger Woods. No wonder why they want to label military returning from OS as crazy and should keep us from guns. The French Monarch would have put in guiliteen(sp) if they knew what was coming.

Chief Bosun
03-12-2013, 04:24 PM
Unfortunately, cuts have to be made somewhere.

I agree education is important. However, the powers that be have to look at the tradeoffs and see what can be supported. They are (hopefully) looking at a larger picture than we are, and trying to avoid tossing out the baby with the bathwater.

imported_WILDJOKER5
03-12-2013, 04:44 PM
Unfortunately, cuts have to be made somewhere.

I agree education is important. However, the powers that be have to look at the tradeoffs and see what can be supported. They are (hopefully) looking at a larger picture than we are, and trying to avoid tossing out the baby with the bathwater.

What have the cuts that have been made to congress and the POTUS benefits and pay? We peons are being targeted first. "Let them eat cake".

Chief Bosun
03-12-2013, 05:45 PM
What have the cuts that have been made to congress and the POTUS benefits and pay? We peons are being targeted first. "Let them eat cake".

As a whole - none. I've heard there is a Constitutional issue involved that prevents that from happening, but I have not heard the specific section cited that applies.

On an individual level, some (and I only know of a couple who happen to be Democrats) who have agreed to do without their pay for each day furloughs are in effect for the civilian employees.

At least the bread and butter issues for the military are (so far) not being affected as far as I know. By that, I mean pay and subsistance.

Personally, I think we all need to have very long memories in 2014 and 2016.

navyskcs
03-12-2013, 06:34 PM
This is crazy making all of these cuts. This will not stop the wasteful spending. Going to school while serving this great country is one of the greatest things that can be offered to us as a military member. To have our elected officials to drop this is a disgrace to the uniform. Benefits are earned as a member of service to our country. This needs to be fixed. Cutting jobs and education are not the way to do it. The mess that is going on has to be fixed before people start losing their homes, cars and everything in life they worked hard to get. We are all in a mess that the common soldier or American citizen has no say so. Stop blaming each other’s parties and fix this mess. We are Americans lets act like it. We are better than this stop cutting earned benefits and job hours.

MSG(Ret.)

The American citizen does have a say. We, as whole, voted the exact same people into power (The White House, Senate, and House of Rep) back in Nov that caused this mess in the first place knowing all too well that nothing would change unless we voted new leaders and representatives in.
Fortunatly we will have to power to change our government again in just 20 months from now. I just hope that the american people will finally say enough is enough and vote for some real change in our elected leaders......

RobotChicken
03-12-2013, 08:28 PM
Good luck on that with the 'Electoral Vote'.

efmbman
03-12-2013, 09:00 PM
The American citizen does have a say. We, as whole, voted the exact same people into power (The White House, Senate, and House of Rep) back in Nov that caused this mess in the first place knowing all too well that nothing would change unless we voted new leaders and representatives in.
Fortunatly we will have to power to change our government again in just 20 months from now. I just hope that the american people will finally say enough is enough and vote for some real change in our elected leaders......

I agree. Not only that, but the sequester was already written as law BEFORE the elections occured.

BURAWSKI
03-12-2013, 10:19 PM
I agree. Not only that, but the sequester was already written as law BEFORE the elections occured.

I understand that these are across the board cuts. I get that. But what I don't understand is why these cuts are being made like this. No one is actually taking the time to analyze where to cut -- heck, just taking a chopping block and cutting without even looking at where the waste actually is. And there is waste out there - no doubt about it. I don't know, but I didn't vote for this. I am sure the people who did vote didn't anticipate getting screwed over either. They voted with the hope that these elected officials were going to do their jobs and come up with a budget. And cutting across the board is not a budget in my book. Anyone can do that - I am a high school graduate and can do that. These are people with the big fancy law and economic degrees who get paid to avoid these kind of problems. They are not, and haven't been, doing their jobs. No accountability. If I performed like these lawmakers I would have been terminated years ago. I have a checking account that I am expected to manage in order to avoid writing bad checks. I am held accountable if I spend more than I earn. That's what needs to be done: accountability. I agree there is a lot of apathy among the public but these lawmakers have a lot of apathy as well -- they only care about their own agendas and step on those that they are supposed to serve. These lawmakers work for us, but they act (and perform) as though we work for them. And if I were President I wouldn't even be seen near a golf course or out on vacation until this budget crisis was solved. He hasn't done anything to deserve a vacation.



B. M. BURAWSKI
Chief Yeoman, U.S. Navy (Ret.)

efmbman
03-12-2013, 10:27 PM
I understand that these are across the board cuts. I get that. But what I don't understand is why these cuts are being made like this.

This is only my opinion, and I am sure there are many here that will disagree or paint with a broad brush for saying so:

They are doing it in this manner to make everyone mad. These are the instances that will be pointed to during the next election cycle as a reason to vote for someone, or not to vote for someone. I honestly don't think there is any other rhyme or reason to it. If they were serious about cutting waste, they would approach it in a methodical manner with the best interest of the people in mind. This is obviously not what is happening. I do agree completely cuts need to be made and DoD is the most ripe target, but there are other things besides TA that can be done away with. Any entity that will willingly endanger their most important element (the humans) to better themselves is not acting in the best interest of those same people.

RobotChicken
03-12-2013, 10:30 PM
:spy 'Do as 'I' say,not as 'I' do......:brick

Chief Bosun
03-13-2013, 10:34 AM
I agree. Not only that, but the sequester was already written as law BEFORE the elections occured.

And there was a reason for that.

Idea was to force action before it took effect to come up with some (so-called) intelligent ways to trim the budget.

Problem is, once the elections were over the folks that hold sway over the process decided to be part of the problem and not part of the solution.

imported_WILDJOKER5
03-13-2013, 11:18 AM
As a whole - none. I've heard there is a Constitutional issue involved that prevents that from happening, but I have not heard the specific section cited that applies.The one thing in the constitution that is supposed to be funded by the government is taking the biggest cut in benefits and pay while funding foreign hostile countries militaries are on the rise. Why the hell are we giving money to Egypt who wants to destroy our ONLY ally in the middle east?


On an individual level, some (and I only know of a couple who happen to be Democrats) who have agreed to do without their pay for each day furloughs are in effect for the civilian employees.

At least the bread and butter issues for the military are (so far) not being affected as far as I know. By that, I mean pay and subsistance.

Personally, I think we all need to have very long memories in 2014 and 2016.

Agreed. And remember that the GOP is also part of the problem with these LONG standing wars that are causing massive stress on military personel and families.

imported_WILDJOKER5
03-13-2013, 11:29 AM
This is only my opinion, and I am sure there are many here that will disagree or paint with a broad brush for saying so:

They are doing it in this manner to make everyone mad. These are the instances that will be pointed to during the next election cycle as a reason to vote for someone, or not to vote for someone. I honestly don't think there is any other rhyme or reason to it. If they were serious about cutting waste, they would approach it in a methodical manner with the best interest of the people in mind. This is obviously not what is happening. I do agree completely cuts need to be made and DoD is the most ripe target, but there are other things besides TA that can be done away with. Any entity that will willingly endanger their most important element (the humans) to better themselves is not acting in the best interest of those same people.

And yet as an American people, we cant bring ourselves to see that having a base/post/port in 90% of the world, feeding these countries with our money from renting the land, troops spending money in THEIR economies, and paying taxes towards being there is not the first thing that should be cut. Lets be real here, we should NOT be in most of the areas around the world and need to pull our forces back to the states. Does anyone remember reading about the many, MANY empires of the past who expanded their troops beyond their borders and eventually went bankrupt? I mean seriously, why are we still in Germany, Japan, Korea, Italy, central and south America, Africa, Great britian? Most of the countries are either well off enough to take care of themselves or dont want us there to begin with, lets come home already.

Pullinteeth
03-13-2013, 12:02 PM
As a whole - none. I've heard there is a Constitutional issue involved that prevents that from happening, but I have not heard the specific section cited that applies.

You are correct. It is the 27th amendment. "No law, varying the compensation for the services of the Senators and Representatives, shall take effect, until an election of Representatives shall have intervened." This was MEANT to prevent Congress from giving themselves a pay raise but now prevents a pay cut (though the Dems said they would axe one anyway)....

Chief Bosun
03-13-2013, 12:27 PM
The one thing in the constitution that is supposed to be funded by the government is taking the biggest cut in benefits and pay while funding foreign hostile countries militaries are on the rise. Why the hell are we giving money to Egypt who wants to destroy our ONLY ally in the middle east?



Agreed. And remember that the GOP is also part of the problem with these LONG standing wars that are causing massive stress on military personel and families.

There's plenty of blame to go around here.

Yes, the GOP has to shoulder some for supporting a military action against Iraq that was based on rather shaky grounds.

However, the Democrats also have to take some for their prior actions, such as initiating the Great Society in the 1960's and trying to have both guns and butter by starting that at the same time we were ramping up military operations in Vietnam.

In any event, it is a mess and both the military and the federal civilian employees are paying the price for the inaction of others.

imported_WILDJOKER5
03-13-2013, 12:38 PM
There's plenty of blame to go around here.

Yes, the GOP has to shoulder some for supporting a military action against Iraq that was based on rather shaky grounds.

However, the Democrats also have to take some for their prior actions, such as initiating the Great Society in the 1960's and trying to have both guns and butter by starting that at the same time we were ramping up military operations in Vietnam.

In any event, it is a mess and both the military and the federal civilian employees are paying the price for the inaction of others.

I put the blame on both parties for sure. One party come in and raises expenses on one aspect of the American life, then when the opposite party comes in base off rehtoric of how bad the other party is for spending so much on "x", they dont cut the spending generally and raise spending on the other aspect of American life. Its a fucked up seesaw that only sees each side go up, but never bringing it the other side down.

navyskcs
03-13-2013, 04:27 PM
I understand that these are across the board cuts. I get that. But what I don't understand is why these cuts are being made like this. No one is actually taking the time to analyze where to cut -- heck, just taking a chopping block and cutting without even looking at where the waste actually is. And there is waste out there - no doubt about it. I don't know, but I didn't vote for this. I am sure the people who did vote didn't anticipate getting screwed over either. They voted with the hope that these elected officials were going to do their jobs and come up with a budget. And cutting across the board is not a budget in my book. Anyone can do that - I am a high school graduate and can do that. These are people with the big fancy law and economic degrees who get paid to avoid these kind of problems. They are not, and haven't been, doing their jobs. No accountability. If I performed like these lawmakers I would have been terminated years ago. I have a checking account that I am expected to manage in order to avoid writing bad checks. I am held accountable if I spend more than I earn. That's what needs to be done: accountability. I agree there is a lot of apathy among the public but these lawmakers have a lot of apathy as well -- they only care about their own agendas and step on those that they are supposed to serve. These lawmakers work for us, but it they act (and perform) as though we work for them. And if I were President I wouldn't even be seen near a golf course or out on vacation until this budget crisis was solved. He hasn't done anything to deserve a vacation.



B. M. BURAWSKI
Chief Yeoman, U.S. Navy (Ret.)


There's that dirty little word "hope" again. Hope isn't going to solve our problems. Electing qualifed people who can really make a difference(dem or repub) will. If the average american voter would spend just 3 hours researching the positions of the candidates on their particular ballot and come up with a "informed" decision on who they will vote for, then we wouldn't be in this situation. Unfortuantly, most americans do not take the time to check out the ballot in advance and tend to vote for whoever the last candidate they saw on TV or in the mailer and we end up voting those folks in regardless if they can do the job or not.

Pullinteeth
03-13-2013, 04:35 PM
This is only my opinion, and I am sure there are many here that will disagree or paint with a broad brush for saying so:

They are doing it in this manner to make everyone mad. These are the instances that will be pointed to during the next election cycle as a reason to vote for someone, or not to vote for someone. I honestly don't think there is any other rhyme or reason to it. If they were serious about cutting waste, they would approach it in a methodical manner with the best interest of the people in mind. This is obviously not what is happening. I do agree completely cuts need to be made and DoD is the most ripe target, but there are other things besides TA that can be done away with. Any entity that will willingly endanger their most important element (the humans) to better themselves is not acting in the best interest of those same people.

The best part is that none of those elected can be blamed for any of these cuts directly...they are "powerless" if they blame 'em all on sequestration.... The Dems can blame the Reps for not raising taxes, the Reps can blame the Dems for coming up with sequestration and not voting on spending cuts... Neither one has to shoulder any direct blame for any specific program cuts. Obama was a friggin genius to come up with the idea of sequester and everyone that voted for it (under the guise of planning to fix the problem before it took effect) was smart...

BURAWSKI
03-13-2013, 05:10 PM
There's that dirty little word "hope" again. Hope isn't going to solve our problems. Electing qualifed people who can really make a difference(dem or repub) will. If the average american voter would spend just 3 hours researching the positions of the candidates on their particular ballot and come up with a "informed" decision on who they will vote for, then we wouldn't be in this situation. Unfortuantly, most americans do not take the time to check out the ballot in advance and tend to vote for whoever the last candidate they saw on TV or in the mailer and we end up voting those folks in regardless if they can do the job or not.

You are right about the public not doing their research on these candidates. But in their defense I have to blame the media as well. Just look at the Presidential debates. They were not even debates. I call them infomercials because that's all they were. Expecting a candiate to answer a complicated question in 60 seconds or less is not a debate. It isn't even an intellectual discussion. The public is fed attack ads that have absolutely nothing to do with the issues at hand. If fact, the media publicizes outright lies, have-truths, innuedo and gossip and calls it news. So where exactly does that leave us? No I don't think we deserve this. We are getting screwed and I don't think it is right to lay the blame on the voting public. Instead I would put the accountability on the people who agree to represent us. No matter what these politicians believe in or what their views are they still have a duty to perform their jobs. They are not performing and to blame the public is not exactly right either.

efmbman
03-13-2013, 09:49 PM
And there was a reason for that.

Idea was to force action before it took effect to come up with some (so-called) intelligent ways to trim the budget.

Problem is, once the elections were over the folks that hold sway over the process decided to be part of the problem and not part of the solution.

That is one way to look at it... but something else is bothering me about all this:

The Budget Control Act established the super-committee that was tasked to reduce the deficit dramatically. Included in the Act was a provision for automatic cuts should the super committee fail. As we all know, they did fail. My concern is that the Act basically sends the message that Congress knew, or at least anticipated and would allow, failure. What entity does this as a business practice? Plan for failure in current operations? They should have locked those people in a room and not let them out until an agreement was hammered out. I know in my heart that since the sequestration was "Plan B" none of them took their duties on the super committee seriously. They all figured that the other side would cave in. Neither side caved. Now it is the people that suffer.

Does anyone realize that 80% of the House members that voted in favor of the Budget Control Act were returned to Congress? That is Dems and Repubs. 80%.

Vrake
03-13-2013, 09:58 PM
You are right about the public not doing their research on these candidates. But in their defense I have to blame the media as well. Just look at the Presidential debates. They were not even debates. I call them infomercials because that's all they were. Expecting a candiate to answer a complicated question in 60 seconds or less is not a debate. It isn't even an intellectual discussion. The public is fed attack ads that have absolutely nothing to do with the issues at hand. If fact, the media publicizes outright lies, have-truths, innuedo and gossip and calls it news. So where exactly does that leave us? No I don't think we deserve this. We are getting screwed and I don't think it is right to lay the blame on the voting public. Instead I would put the accountability on the people who agree to represent us. No matter what these politicians believe in or what their views are they still have a duty to perform their jobs. They are not performing and to blame the public is not exactly right either.

Well said!!

sandsjames
03-13-2013, 11:08 PM
How did our military possibly function before TA and degrees for everyone? I'm amazed we weren't wiped off the face of the Earth.

What a bunch of greedy people. It's really and embarrassment that people are so up in arms about this but have little to say about people losing jobs and having hours cut. For those of you using the military to get your "education", too frickin' bad. Do what everyone else in the country has to do. Pay for it. Hopefully you realize people pay for college every day while working at places like McDonalds. You're making 5-10 times what they're making. If it's not important enough to you to come out of pocket, or apply for grants, or take advantage of several other options, then it must not be that important.

Good lord we're all a bunch of entitled children. For anyone who questions why are country is in the tank financially, take a look in the mirror.

Quixotic
03-13-2013, 11:13 PM
How did our military possibly function before TA and degrees for everyone? I'm amazed we weren't wiped off the face of the Earth.

What a bunch of greedy people. It's really and embarrassment that people are so up in arms about this but have little to say about people losing jobs and having hours cut. For those of you using the military to get your "education", too frickin' bad. Do what everyone else in the country has to do. Pay for it. Hopefully you realize people pay for college every day while working at places like McDonalds. You're making 5-10 times what they're making. If it's not important enough to you to come out of pocket, or apply for grants, or take advantage of several other options, then it must not be that important.

Good lord we're all a bunch of entitled children. For anyone who questions why are country is in the tank financially, take a look in the mirror.

Yes, your McDonald's analogy speaks volumes towards your ignorance of the situation.

Quixotic
03-13-2013, 11:25 PM
We lost TA because of sequestration and the political ineptitude of both the Democrats and the Republicans on Capital Hill who thought that it was a great idea. And now, 104,000 of us have been thrown under the bus with the whimsical stroke of a pen. TA costs the Air Force $128 million annually and that is still, even today, chump change easily picked up off the hallway floors of the Pentagon. TA was cut knowing that we would all get mad and be vocal about it, TA was cut to make a political statement. By cutting TA in this manner, faith has been broken. Now, if you will excuse me, I have a mission to go ignore.

sandsjames
03-14-2013, 12:13 AM
We lost TA because of sequestration and the political ineptitude of both the Democrats and the Republicans on Capital Hill who thought that it was a great idea. And now, 104,000 of us have been thrown under the bus with the whimsical stroke of a pen. TA costs the Air Force $128 million annually and that is still, even today, chump change easily picked up off the hallway floors of the Pentagon. TA was cut knowing that we would all get mad and be vocal about it, TA was cut to make a political statement. By cutting TA in this manner, faith has been broken. Now, if you will excuse me, I have a mission to go ignore.

How are you thrown under the bus? What have you lost, other than something that was "extra" in the first place. If the biggest thing you have to complain about it that you can't get your college degree fully paid for anymore then I'm sure you'll be fine. And if the only reason you were putting effort into the job is because of TA then you're better off, and so are the rest of us, if you take your ball and go home.

Quixotic
03-14-2013, 12:27 AM
How are you thrown under the bus? What have you lost, other than something that was "extra" in the first place. If the biggest thing you have to complain about it that you can't get your college degree fully paid for anymore then I'm sure you'll be fine. And if the only reason you were putting effort into the job is because of TA then you're better off, and so are the rest of us, if you take your ball and go home.

If you can't understand how having a major source of funding for higher educational goals suddenly terminated to make a political statement isn't being thrown under the bus, well, my earlier comment about your level of ignorance pretty much says it all I think.

Vrake
03-14-2013, 12:57 AM
Political or not it still sucks we lost it. Sands and Quix you are both right IMHO it was a benifit that went away. Yet each side is using it for their own reasons...

sandsjames
03-14-2013, 10:42 AM
If you can't understand how having a major source of funding for higher educational goals suddenly terminated to make a political statement isn't being thrown under the bus, well, my earlier comment about your level of ignorance pretty much says it all I think.

Alrighty. I just hope that Bed, Bath, and Beyond doesn't take away your military discount. You deserve it.

imported_WILDJOKER5
03-14-2013, 02:51 PM
There's that dirty little word "hope" again. Hope isn't going to solve our problems. Electing qualifed people who can really make a difference(dem or repub) will. If the average american voter would spend just 3 hours researching the positions of the candidates on their particular ballot and come up with a "informed" decision on who they will vote for, then we wouldn't be in this situation. Unfortuantly, most americans do not take the time to check out the ballot in advance and tend to vote for whoever the last candidate they saw on TV or in the mailer and we end up voting those folks in regardless if they can do the job or not.There's the other problem, its not just between dem and GOP, there are more parties out there and usually they will do a better job cause they are more concerned with their voters than the establishment they represent.

imported_WILDJOKER5
03-14-2013, 02:56 PM
They should have just cut it back to 75% as it was before. Only those that wanted the degree got it cause they had to put forth their own money for it. Now $500 per class (depending where you are) is more than I can afford at this time and deffinately more than most airmen will be able to shell out just to get a CCAF.

sandsjames
03-14-2013, 03:05 PM
They should have just cut it back to 75% as it was before. Only those that wanted the degree got it cause they had to put forth their own money for it. Now $500 per class (depending where you are) is more than I can afford at this time and deffinately more than most airmen will be able to shell out just to get a CCAF.

Luckily a degree (other than the free CCAF you can get) is not a necessity for military service.

imported_WILDJOKER5
03-14-2013, 03:13 PM
Luckily a degree (other than the free CCAF you can get) is not a necessity for military service.

Usually the CCAF isnt needed for your job either. But to get the mark up from the bullet for your EPR it usually is.