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View Full Version : If $1 is spent on frivolous end of year spending...



VFFTSGT
03-07-2013, 05:13 AM
...everyone should overload their IG offices with waste complaints.

People are going without things needed to take care of them and other critical items! The money is there, it's just being hoarded.

technomage1
03-07-2013, 12:03 PM
I can't get federally required safety equipment for my shop. The stuff we have is expired. We just made a note of the request in the safety binder and that's all we can do. The stuff we need amounts to less than $20 per person.

SomeRandomGuy
03-07-2013, 01:02 PM
I can't get federally required safety equipment for my shop. The stuff we have is expired. We just made a note of the request in the safety binder and that's all we can do. The stuff we need amounts to less than $20 per person.

How far has your request been up-chanelled? As VFF said the money is there. A lot of units are sitting on what they do have until the next CRA (continuing resolution authority). The current CRA expires March 27th. At that point everyone is expecting a CRA that should carry us to the end of the fiscal year. Once those numbers are avaliable units should have a hard number to budget for the rest of the year. The best comparison I can think of is if you worked somewhere that was possibly annoucing layoffs in a few weeks. Worse case scenario you know that if you get laid off you can still use unemployment to get by. In the meantime you would just sit tight on your budget until you get a better idea how it will look later. Even in this situation you would still buy required items like food and clothing. The same is true for the current DoD budget. There IS money for required items. Don't let anyone tell you there isn't The question just becomes how high up you have to go to get that money. But if it is a required item there is money.

technomage1
03-07-2013, 03:32 PM
Went to the deputy CC. Their call, their butt if something happens. I've id'd it and asked for it and have the documentation o prove it. That's all I can do.

imported_chipotleboy
03-07-2013, 05:32 PM
It can't be too bad. Corona is still projected for this summer.

The Post Man
03-07-2013, 07:30 PM
Went to the deputy CC. Their call, their butt if something happens. I've id'd it and asked for it and have the documentation o prove it. That's all I can do.
Or people die because the equipment doesn't work. Maybe the Wing safety office could get the ball rolling.

Robert F. Dorr
03-07-2013, 07:43 PM
Or people die because the equipment doesn't work. Maybe the Wing safety office could get the ball rolling.

Do you really think anyone's life is threatened in this situation? Can you cite an example?

VFFTSGT
03-07-2013, 08:11 PM
Do you really think anyone's life is threatened in this situation? Can you cite an example?

We've had people go without cold weather gear, which is life threatening.

But we still spend money on awards/plaques.

garhkal
03-07-2013, 09:10 PM
We've had people go without cold weather gear, which is life threatening.

But we still spend money on awards/plaques.

One of the commands ours serviced when i was in Bahrain, had 3 tech assists from our comm shop, cause they didn't have the tools/parts needed to get their gear fixed.. but 3 weeks after the last one, they had a 40 man award ceremony... out of 73 people! So i know what you are saying.

Z1911
03-07-2013, 09:19 PM
We've had people go without cold weather gear, which is life threatening.

But we still spend money on awards/plaques.

"Different pot of money"...Which is a voodoo economics pile of horseshit!:frusty That whole concept needs to be flushed down the nearest toilet. IMHO, the "different pot of money" answer is one of the many MAJOR reasons the government is in the predicament it's in.

The Post Man
03-07-2013, 09:25 PM
Do you really think anyone's life is threatened in this situation? Can you cite an example?

Does it have to be life threatening? If an Airman lost an eye or a finger, would that be acceptable? Can you cite an example?

technomage1
03-07-2013, 09:53 PM
Do you really think anyone's life is threatened in this situation? Can you cite an example?

In our case, its PPE. Hard hats have an expiry date, believe it or not. And we need safety glasses for some folks. According to the letter of the law, we need new hard hats. Now, realistically...I don't think it would be an issue because we don't wear them continuously. I think they'd probably be fine. But I'm not OSHA.

If I was losing sleep over it I'd elevate. I'm not, but I still think its bogus we don't have less than $300 to meet the OSHA requirement. I honestly think our leadership is using this to beg the wing for more money as they've always taken good care of us in the past.

VFFTSGT
03-07-2013, 11:31 PM
"Different pot of money"...Which is a voodoo economics pile of horseshit!:frusty That whole concept needs to be flushed down the nearest toilet. IMHO, the "different pot of money" answer is one of the many MAJOR reasons the government is in the predicament it's in.

Not really, cold weather gear and plaques come from the same unit GPC funds.

Airborne
03-08-2013, 04:30 AM
In our case, its PPE. Hard hats have an expiry date, believe it or not. And we need safety glasses for some folks. According to the letter of the law, we need new hard hats. Now, realistically...I don't think it would be an issue because we don't wear them continuously. I think they'd probably be fine. But I'm not OSHA.

If I was losing sleep over it I'd elevate. I'm not, but I still think its bogus we don't have less than $300 to meet the OSHA requirement. I honestly think our leadership is using this to beg the wing for more money as they've always taken good care of us in the past.

This is the sort of thing that I think is worse than the whole "flat screen tv" thing. Is a hard hat really not gonna be serviceable one day after the expiry so now the commander has to drop some coin on it. Probably peanuts in the grand scheme sure, but some things need to be in the spirit of the law and not the letter of the law.

RobotChicken
03-08-2013, 04:35 AM
:spy Do kelvar helmets with stealth paint have a expiration date...like if your shot at the day after.....we need the 'ole steel pot',takes a lick'in and keeps your head on!! :hail

technomage1
03-08-2013, 06:29 AM
This is the sort of thing that I think is worse than the whole "flat screen tv" thing. Is a hard hat really not gonna be serviceable one day after the expiry so now the commander has to drop some coin on it. Probably peanuts in the grand scheme sure, but some things need to be in the spirit of the law and not the letter of the law.

I don't disagree, but as I noted its an OSHA requirement which the AF has to follow like any other employer in the US. With hard hats the plastic becomes more brittle with age and UV exposure. A 10 year old one may not give your noodle the protection it needs if you get knocked in the noggin. Not that ours are anywhere near that age.

Actually the requirement is to replace every 2-5 years depending on amount of use and climate. Also if it gets impacted due to a hit or even dropping it. They cost $15. A pittance compared to the safety they provide.

God help the employer that has expired hats or some such and something happens. OSHA descends and the fines/penalties can be harsh. PPE is cheap compared to it so most legit employers don't play when it comes to that sort of thing.

technomage1
03-08-2013, 07:02 AM
AFI 91-203 15 JUNE 2012

14.4.3.1.5. Inspection. Inspect safety helmets prior to each use. Any of the following defects is cause for immediate removal from service:
14.4.3.1.5.1. Suspension systems with evidence of material cracking, tearing, fraying or other signs of deterioration.
14.4.3.1.5.2. Any cracks, perforations of brim or shell, deformation of shell or evidence of exposure to excessive heat, chemicals or radiation.
14.4.3.1.5.3. Any accumulation of conductive material on or inside the shell that cannot be removed prior to use. This applies to helmets used in electrical hazardous environments.

Those too. But as noted in para 1.1 OSHA is the standard unless military needs dictate otherwise.

garhkal
03-08-2013, 07:43 AM
This is the sort of thing that I think is worse than the whole "flat screen tv" thing. Is a hard hat really not gonna be serviceable one day after the expiry so now the commander has to drop some coin on it. Probably peanuts in the grand scheme sure, but some things need to be in the spirit of the law and not the letter of the law.

Very true.. its why i also hated it when for the navy at least, if something is a day out of calibration date, you can't use it for PMS. Is that 1 day out going to make it all of a suddenly not give proper readings?

omertalifestyle
03-08-2013, 09:50 AM
Very true.. its why i also hated it when for the navy at least, if something is a day out of calibration date, you can't use it for PMS. Is that 1 day out going to make it all of a suddenly not give proper readings?
There is a chance that it could be out of limits, that's the reason why we have calibration dates.

One item that bothers me about all this crap is we tell people to use their clothing allowance to buy items that should be issued because it is required for their specific job (Steel Toe Boots, cold weather gear, PPE) Also when people are having to use their own money to buy office supplies to do their job, we have got a serious problem.

technomage1
03-08-2013, 11:51 AM
There is a chance that it could be out of limits, that's the reason why we have calibration dates.

One item that bothers me about all this crap is we tell people to use their clothing allowance to buy items that should be issued because it is required for their specific job (Steel Toe Boots, cold weather gear, PPE) Also when people are having to use their own money to buy office supplies to do their job, we have got a serious problem.

Agree. The clothing allowance is only for replacement items in the clothing bag. Anyone who tells enlisted to buy anything outside that list is 100% wrong.

imported_Shove_your_stupid_meeting
03-08-2013, 04:29 PM
This is the sort of thing that I think is worse than the whole "flat screen tv" thing. Is a hard hat really not gonna be serviceable one day after the expiry so now the commander has to drop some coin on it. Probably peanuts in the grand scheme sure, but some things need to be in the spirit of the law and not the letter of the law.


Why you gotta try and use your brain like that?

Rainmaker
03-08-2013, 04:48 PM
Fiscal year-end base level O&M spending is a drop in the bucket in the grand scheme of things. As if too many toner cartridges and flat screen TVs busted the country. Notice how DoD gets to decide how to implement the cut to O&M any way they want starting next fiscal year? There's a good reason for that folks. It's by design. All the FY 13 cuts are designed to fall on Military Operations and Civilian Personnel, so as to create the MAXIMUM AMOUNT OF DRAMA, while not actually screwing with the defense industry (whose O&M funded service contracts are already let thru 30 Sept). Apparently their hypocrisy knows no bounds.

garhkal
03-08-2013, 08:20 PM
Agree. The clothing allowance is only for replacement items in the clothing bag. Anyone who tells enlisted to buy anything outside that list is 100% wrong.

Its also for repair of those clothes.. such as getting your new crows/rank insignas sewn on.

technomage1
03-08-2013, 09:39 PM
Its also for repair of those clothes.. such as getting your new crows/rank insignas sewn on.

True that. Though I often wonder how all that is calculated. I'm pretty sure a Magic 8 ball is used at some point.