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jondstewart
02-15-2013, 04:36 AM
I have not seen any posts by known Services folks, so I thought I'd be the first one. I've been retired almost 2 years and not sure if any major changes have happened since then, but there's many issues I'd like to bring up, good and bad:

1. The Food Transformation Initiative. Turned our operation into a nightmare. Unofficially, the reason it was initiated was to make money for our already broke government. At Elmendorf, we were one of the first bases. Ability One, or for a more precise term, handicapped employees, had their hours cut in half or jobs altogether! The Services troops had to work twice as hard and now made to do salads, prepping, and working the serving line. Shift leaders are responsible for cash register operations before and after the meal. The contract employees were strictly KP and cashiers afterwards. The government cooks didn't have to worry about much, because they're already well taken care of and have the union on their side. The companies that entered into a contract with the Air Force, Aramark and Sodexo, are not very reputable and known for paying their employees cheaply and dysfunctional management. Aramark has a monopoly on most of the public universities in America. Officially, the main reason this was initiated was a wider menu selection, more flexible eating hours, and to permit ALL base personnel to eat there. But prices are now inflated. Also, the supposed objective was to teach the Airmen the "real world" of food service. No, in actuality, the real world in food service is even tougher, even if you are a chef and been to culinary school. Unless you work in remote camps, on ships or boats, or for the government as a cook or supervisor (a thing of the past for the most part), you are going to make low wages and be worked to the bone! I don't know many that worked in the food service business after separation or retirement, and rightfully so! I LOVE cooking and part of my job is cooking that I now do at radar sites all over Alaska and grateful I'm not slaving away as a short order cook or manager at a restaurant!

2. Having civilians from the HAWC evaluate those for PT assessment tests instead of having a trained and qualified Fitness Specialist do the assessment. Why? I was in fitness at Lackland from about 1996 to 2001 and during those years, not much to learn, except facility and equipment maintenance, laundering, and cashier operations. Fitness and Sports was always low-skill and quite frankly, it should be made a NAF civilian job Air Force-wide! You rarely need the job in the field, since it's always contracted out or self-service.

3. The good ole "Air Force Services Agency" in San Antonio. You talk about an unfriendly and impersonal environment! I went there for a week long class some 10 years ago and didn't really learn anything that important. Most of the folks there are what I call "Randolphed". If you've been stationed at or around people stationed at Randolph AFB, you'll know what I mean!

4. Personnel. I've seen other career fields, particularly Medical and aircraft maintenance folks and they seem tightly knit and like family. Not so for Services! Dysfunctional is putting it nicely. Every other person I've known is either oppressed, cranky, unmotivated, on a power kick, or a backstabber. Most of the higher-uppers I've known over the years (E8 and above, especially) got there because they stepped on a lot of toes or did a lot of politicking.

5. Use of Service folks on deployments--do they need Services Specialists or contractors? Half the places like Bagram they have contractors, in Kuwait and Al Udeid, they have TCN's hired, while Services folks supervise them for cleanliness. At Diego Garcia, I was handing out movies and recreation equipment, but at my year long deployment in Afghanistan, I indeed worked and was running a small DFAC on a FOB of about 250 people that had me and 2 other Air Force and local hires making $200 a month.

6. Putting us and the Army together, particularly cooks. Not a good idea. Army food service is rigorous, even though their food is average at best, and you talk about some folks on a power craze that are E7's and above and Warrant Officers! They are a different breed. Keep us divided in that area. Living together is fine, just not working together!

---Just wanted to get this off my chest, as a relatively disgruntled and retired Services guy. I generally minded my own business throughout the years, stationed at only 3 bases (Barksdale, Lackland, and Elmendorf) and saw a lot of good and bad. And though I retired as a TSgt and had only 5 points in medals my whole career (the penalty for not PCS'ing every 3 years, LOL), I'm proud to have served my country and loved what I did. My years as a cook at Barksdale and Elmendorf and years as a QAE at Lackland were my favorite.

grimreaper
02-15-2013, 05:29 AM
I have not seen any posts by known Services folks, so I thought I'd be the first one.

That's because they're referred to as Force Support Squadron Personnel now.

jondstewart
02-15-2013, 05:43 AM
I figured I could have intelligent discussions with some folks on here, but many posters or responders are just as crude and immature as Soapbox posters on IMDB

*Sigh*! Idiocracy!

jondstewart
02-15-2013, 05:49 AM
Unfortunately, yes! As horrible as it sounds. The people who succeeded in that career field usually have/had cutthroat personalities or kissed ass. And many of the SSgt's and TSgt's just have to sit back and suck on it! Because brains or culinary skills are not the thing to succeed in Services, survival of the fittest is!

jondstewart
02-15-2013, 05:50 AM
My bad, let me correct myself. Yes, Service does suck and we DO have a lot of bad Airmen and NCO's!

BRUWIN
02-15-2013, 06:21 AM
My bad, let me correct myself. Yes, Service does suck and we DO have a lot of bad Airmen and NCO's!

The best TSgt I ever worked with was during my last deployment. She was admin for a 2-star Army general, did supply, constant convoy duties, and whatever else we threw her way. She was services but working in an deployed intel environment for the first time. That was 2010 and I have never said another bad word about Services since.

BRUWIN
02-15-2013, 06:45 AM
Was she a "Chiefs aide" as well

Nope....in fact I stayed the hell out of her way. She was fiery if you came around her office and started fucking her shit up.

jondstewart
02-21-2013, 06:00 AM
Nope....in fact I stayed the hell out of her way. She was fiery if you came around her office and started fucking her shit up.

Yep, like I said, the most successful people in Services are usually those type of personalities.

We are/were a definitely maligned career field, probably worse than Security Forces. And many defenders of Services say people have to eat or need morale in the field. Oh sure! That's why we now send private contractors to cook and work in recreation and fitness in war zones.

Knew many high-ranking NCO's that had very successful careers and spent their whole careers in Services and they didn't know diddly squat about cooking or running a fitness center.

jondstewart
02-21-2013, 06:00 AM
Nope....in fact I stayed the hell out of her way. She was fiery if you came around her office and started fucking her shit up.

Yep, like I said, the most successful people in Services are usually those type of personalities.

We are/were a definitely maligned career field, probably worse than Security Forces. And many defenders of Services say people have to eat or need morale in the field. Oh sure! That's why we now send private contractors to cook and work in recreation and fitness in war zones.

Knew many high-ranking NCO's that had very successful careers and spent their whole careers in Services and they didn't know diddly squat about cooking or running a fitness center.

JD2780
02-21-2013, 03:48 PM
Services/Force Support whatever. Regardless they deal with assholes in chow lines every day that think they're better than them. They deal with arrogant pricks checking into billetting every day. They run mortuary affairs. They deal with assholes in the gym that can clean up after themselves. You want to talk about a thankless job? Look at those folks.

Sure they get looked down up, but they have some great opportunities for training and experience. I havent ran across one that wasnt helpful when I had a question. Even if they didnt have the answer they looked high and low to find it.

BRUWIN
02-21-2013, 03:56 PM
So you bowed to a TSgt, cause she was female.

More made up shit.

Pullinteeth
02-21-2013, 03:58 PM
We are/were a definitely maligned career field, probably worse than Security Forces.

How so? The worst I have heard anyone say about Services is that they have an easy job-handing out basketballs at the gym etc... If ANYTHING, I think Services gets a free pass. Cops are often called dumb or it is said that they didn't qualify for anything else so they made them a cop. In reality, the MAGE score required for cops is a 33G while for services it is a 24G. Yet for the most part, it is the cops that are seen as stupid not the services folks.

BRUWIN
02-21-2013, 04:47 PM
In reality, the MAGE score required for cops is a 33G while for services it is a 24G. Yet for the most part, it is the cops that are seen as stupid not the services folks.

And cops driving an LE car under an F-15 didn't do much to alleviate that perception.

SomeRandomGuy
02-21-2013, 05:21 PM
Since this thread is already de-railed: The reason people hate cops is because they are so damn cocky. Because of the power afforded to them by their position they walk around with a god complex. They always fail to understand that other people have pwoer based on their position. The other reason cops get a bad rap is because of that stupid beret. If you see someone do something stupid in uniform you normally do not know their AFSC. If you see a cop do something stupid in uniform you can recognize it right away just by the beret.

JD2780
02-21-2013, 05:48 PM
Since this thread is already de-railed: The reason people hate cops is because they are so damn cocky. Because of the power afforded to them by their position they walk around with a god complex. They always fail to understand that other people have pwoer based on their position. The other reason cops get a bad rap is because of that stupid beret. If you see someone do something stupid in uniform you normally do not know their AFSC. If you see a cop do something stupid in uniform you can recognize it right away just by the beret.

Or it could be this stupid quote I've heard tossed around.

"Dont confuse your rank with my authority" My reply has always been, your authority doesnt allow you to simply disrespect senior people. They get all mad like this Lt that pulled me over. He said I was texting while driving I told him no i wasnt he said he saw me do it. I called him on it and handed him my phone asked him to prove it. He couldnt so he let me go. Had he come up and acted like a professional instead of a cocky Lt, which NO Lt should ever be cocky, I probably wouldnt have been all defensive. Also it seems backwards that in the civilian worl you need to be 21 to be a cop yet in the military you can be 18 with social skills and they'll hand you a weapon.

Back to services. Squared away folks as far as I've seen. Every AFSC has its idiots and assholes.

Robert F. Dorr
03-12-2013, 05:09 PM
Since this thread is already de-railed: The reason people hate cops is because they are so damn cocky. Because of the power afforded to them by their position they walk around with a god complex. They always fail to understand that other people have pwoer based on their position. The other reason cops get a bad rap is because of that stupid beret. If you see someone do something stupid in uniform you normally do not know their AFSC. If you see a cop do something stupid in uniform you can recognize it right away just by the beret.

I believe you're mistaken about the attitude but right about the beret.

JD2780
03-12-2013, 06:34 PM
How so? The worst I have heard anyone say about Services is that they have an easy job-handing out basketballs at the gym etc... If ANYTHING, I think Services gets a free pass. Cops are often called dumb or it is said that they didn't qualify for anything else so they made them a cop. In reality, the MAGE score required for cops is a 33G while for services it is a 24G. Yet for the most part, it is the cops that are seen as stupid not the services folks.

That is simply the required score. Cops tend to show their asses more. Acting like clowns parking cars under F-15s while "looking for something". Stopping folks and getting mad when they realize the driver wasnt actually doing anything wrong. Service usually referred to as more a joke than dummies. Basically saying they arent even really military. Service does however, provide many good services that are appreciated throughout the DoD. Cops also provide a service.

JD2780
03-12-2013, 06:36 PM
I believe you're mistaken about the attitude but right about the beret.

Sadly many times TACPs get confused for cops. I had it happen to me. The kid had a deer in the headlights look when I told hiim I wasnt a cop. Cops berets are a different color and have a different flash. Sheesh. Yes, when you have a different color it highlights your stupidity and arrogance.

Rainmaker
03-12-2013, 07:31 PM
Or it could be this stupid quote I've heard tossed around.

"Dont confuse your rank with my authority" My reply has always been, your authority doesnt allow you to simply disrespect senior people. They get all mad like this Lt that pulled me over. He said I was texting while driving I told him no i wasnt he said he saw me do it. I called him on it and handed him my phone asked him to prove it. He couldnt so he let me go. Had he come up and acted like a professional instead of a cocky Lt, which NO Lt should ever be cocky, I probably wouldnt have been all defensive. Also it seems backwards that in the civilian worl you need to be 21 to be a cop yet in the military you can be 18 with social skills and they'll hand you a weapon.

Back to services. Squared away folks as far as I've seen. Every AFSC has its idiots and assholes.

Why you got out ROMAD? it don't get no better than punking ponine butter bars. Nomsayin??

Pullinteeth
03-12-2013, 07:46 PM
That is simply the required score. Cops tend to show their asses more. Acting like clowns parking cars under F-15s while "looking for something". Stopping folks and getting mad when they realize the driver wasnt actually doing anything wrong. Service usually referred to as more a joke than dummies. Basically saying they arent even really military. Service does however, provide many good services that are appreciated throughout the DoD. Cops also provide a service.

So you are agreeing with me.....?

Rainmaker
03-12-2013, 07:47 PM
Nope....in fact I stayed the hell out of her way. She was fiery if you came around her office and started fucking her shit up.

Had a nice cut in the butter too. Nomsayin??

Rainmaker
03-12-2013, 08:01 PM
I figured I could have intelligent discussions with some folks on here, but many posters or responders are just as crude and immature as Soapbox posters on IMDB

*Sigh*! Idiocracy!

in case you hadn’t noticed... this ain’t exactly no Mensa meeting up in here. Try post some bootay photos to break the ice. Nomsayin Leibowitz?

JD2780
03-13-2013, 10:56 AM
Why you got out ROMAD? it don't get no better than punking ponine butter bars. Nomsayin??

Because I failed the ground based controller physical because of migraines. However, I've had a few other flight surgeons here in FL tell me the doc at Nellis screwed it up and I shouldnt have been booted.

Pullinteeth- I was saying that cops tend to look stupid alot more because they do stupid stuff alot more. The ASVAB score doesnt have anything to do with it. Being a CCT/PJ/or TACP doesnt require a high asvab score. Like, a 50 something.

Pullinteeth
03-13-2013, 05:47 PM
Pullinteeth- I was saying that cops tend to look stupid alot more because they do stupid stuff alot more. The ASVAB score doesnt have anything to do with it. Being a CCT/PJ/or TACP doesnt require a high asvab score. Like, a 50 something.

I get that...my post was refuting the OP that Services is more maligned than SFS... I think that is a fantasy. SFS is MUCH more maligned than Services-some for valid reasons I will grant you but maligned none-the-less.