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View Full Version : AF SMSgt gets DUI, adds to troops misbehaving in Japan



tiredretiredE7
02-12-2013, 05:47 PM
http://www.stripes.com/news/pacific/bad-behavior-in-the-pacific/air-force-e-8-on-okinawa-suspected-of-drunken-driving-causing-accident-1.207579

Is the AF trying to one up the Navy?

Sergeant eNYgma
02-12-2013, 05:56 PM
More CBT's/Curfews/Commanders Calls when they can just hold the lone dumbass accountable in 3....2.....1....

SomeRandomGuy
02-12-2013, 06:07 PM
http://www.stripes.com/news/pacific/bad-behavior-in-the-pacific/air-force-e-8-on-okinawa-suspected-of-drunken-driving-causing-accident-1.207579

Is the AF trying to one up the Navy?

What office symbol is MXAB?.....That is the Cheif of Mainteance right?............Ouch

JD2780
02-12-2013, 06:07 PM
He will get retired. Retain full benefits. He's a moron that could've got people killed.

Sergeant eNYgma
02-12-2013, 06:21 PM
He will get retired. Retain full benefits. He's a moron that could've got people killed.

Basically...well at least we can't say Big Blue doesn't look out for Enlisted if this is the case...

JD2780
02-12-2013, 06:24 PM
Basically...well at least we can't say Big Blue doesn't look out for Enlisted if this is the case...

Certainly not. I would however, like to see Os and Es both tossed out for DUIs. There is no excuse for it at all.

Sergeant eNYgma
02-12-2013, 06:34 PM
Certainly not. I would however, like to see Os and Es both tossed out for DUIs. There is no excuse for it at all.

Def agree on that, I think you need to get lost after a single DUI. Then again could someone turn their career around afterwards? Might be a good worker just had fucked up decision making one time...but getting back to my original point one time bad decision could lead to lifetime consequences...

JD2780
02-12-2013, 06:37 PM
Def agree on that, I think you need to get lost after a single DUI. Then again could someone turn their career around afterwards? Might be a good worker just had fucked up decision making one time...but getting back to my original point one time bad decision could lead to lifetime consequences...

True, bust him down in rank let him/her stay in. However, they used they're one chance. If they screw up again its a boot. None of the multiple DUI things. I'm just tired of hearing about people getting DUIs and people being killed by drunk drivers.

Orion
02-12-2013, 09:39 PM
What office symbol is MXAB?.....That is the Cheif of Mainteance right?............Ouch

Yep, Looks like the Asst NCOIC of the 44 AMU, his career is over. If the JP's keep him, he is in for a very rough ride. If they turn him over to the Military, he will face a court martial just to save face with the Okinawans.

FLAPS
02-12-2013, 09:50 PM
What a dumbass. He'll be paying for this for the rest of his life!

sandsjames
02-12-2013, 10:20 PM
What a dumbass. He'll be paying for this for the rest of his life!

FLAPS...WTF???? Did you finally remember the password for this screen name?

raider8169
02-12-2013, 10:27 PM
6 times the legal limit in order to get into work. Wonder if his job is really that bad where one needs to be drunk in order to do it.

SENDBILLMONEY
02-12-2013, 11:24 PM
What I'd like to see: Special court-martial. Confinement and reduction need to be in play for this one.

efmbman
02-12-2013, 11:32 PM
6 times the legal limit in order to get into work. Wonder if his job is really that bad where one needs to be drunk in order to do it.

That's the part I noticed as well... out past curfew so the knee jerk reaction was "I'm going to work!" Very drunk going to work... good call.

Rizzo77
02-12-2013, 11:36 PM
Officers above him and command chief failed him.

ALL leaders are responsible for ALL subordinates; didn't you know that? his "wingman" failed him.

Yeah, individual responsibility is not the point; WHERE WAS HIS WINGMAN?

sandsjames
02-12-2013, 11:37 PM
That's the part I noticed as well... out past curfew so the knee jerk reaction was "I'm going to work!" Very drunk going to work... good call.

I think that all SNCO's on the base should have to be at the base commander's house in full service dress on Monday morning. That's the only way they'll learn. Guess some Chiefs need to be counseled about being good wingmen.

edit: looks like me and Rizzo agree on something.

Rizzo77
02-12-2013, 11:54 PM
looks like me and Rizzo agree on something.

Uuummm, yeah! I'm guessin' that you have had to stand in front of your "leadership" and explain why your Airman beat up a transvestite, knowing full well that you can't live every moment of your life with your subordinates and contemporarily have a life of your own (with SURPRISE, a wife and children that need you).

I KNOW why Joe got a DUI - he fucked up. Why wasn't I there? I have a life, too, dickhead.

BRUWIN
02-13-2013, 12:10 AM
He's a maintenance guy? I didn't think they had enough off time to even consider a drink?

efmbman
02-13-2013, 12:20 AM
I just saw something on my Twitter feed:

"USFJ revises military curfew ; E5 and below in Japan to remain under 12a.m.-5a.m. curfew indefinitely".

Source is @eslavin_stripes if anyone wants to see it. No story on the S&S page yet.

Wonderful timing I would say!!

Cool Change
02-13-2013, 12:34 AM
"... Then again could someone turn their career around afterwards? ...

In my day I saw many who had lost a stripe for misbehavior, even Art15s, recover their career and get promoted over people of the same rank if they did not break any more rules. Basically it was good that they could recoup, but for those of us who did not get in trouble that was a sad thing to watch. I remember hearing many times, that maybe if we go out, screw up and get caught we'd get promoted faster. Never tried that, but that was a common thought in last century's AF.

bcoco14
02-13-2013, 01:04 AM
6 times the legal limit in order to get into work. Wonder if his job is really that bad where one needs to be drunk in order to do it.

6 times the legal limit was added for effect. The legal limit in Japan is .02 by our measurements. So if you do the conversion he had a BAC of around .18, still over the limit for everywhere in the states, but not near what the article implies.

raider8169
02-13-2013, 04:12 AM
6 times the legal limit was added for effect. The legal limit in Japan is .02 by our measurements. So if you do the conversion he had a BAC of around .18, still over the limit for everywhere in the states, but not near what the article implies.

Didnt know that, thanks for the info.

CrustySMSgt
02-13-2013, 04:47 AM
True, bust him down in rank let him/her stay in. However, they used they're one chance. If they screw up again its a boot. None of the multiple DUI things. I'm just tired of hearing about people getting DUIs and people being killed by drunk drivers.

He didn't "screw up," he broke the law, endangering his own and the lives of others... not to mention the international attention this will bring and the consessions we'll have to make to the Japanese.

Screwing up is forgetting to set your alarm or missing an appointment. Drinking and driving is a crime.


6 times the legal limit in order to get into work. Wonder if his job is really that bad where one needs to be drunk in order to do it.

I'm sure that was his "maybe they won't notice I'm drunk" answer. Probably followed by, "I only had 2 beers."

technomage1
02-13-2013, 05:30 AM
He's probably an alcoholic. .15 is the equivalent of 1/2 a pint of whiskey in your blood. Typically you only see that in younger troops who go out and binge drink. At his age and if he was "going into work" as he claimed - I'm guessing long term alcohol abuse.

Drackore
02-13-2013, 07:03 AM
What makes this 100x worse is the fact that it happened in Japan. Had this happened in the States or even Germany it might not have even made the news. I feel bad for people stationed in and around Asia anymore, because the moronic actions of a few neanderthals is causing a lot of suffering for people that are honestly mature, civilized, and responsible.

Monkey
02-13-2013, 07:14 AM
What makes this 100x worse is the fact that it happened in Japan. Had this happened in the States or even Germany it might not have even made the news. I feel bad for people stationed in and around Asia anymore, because the moronic actions of a few neanderthals is causing a lot of suffering for people that are honestly mature, civilized, and responsible.

It only made the "news" because it was in Japan/Okinawa. The only "news" outlets that I know of publishing this story is the Stars and Stripes and Japanese media.

imported_Renazance
02-13-2013, 09:03 AM
He's probably an alcoholic. .15 is the equivalent of 1/2 a pint of whiskey in your blood. Typically you only see that in younger troops who go out and binge drink. At his age and if he was "going into work" as he claimed - I'm guessing long term alcohol abuse.

He only used that excuse to avoid getting busted for breaking curfew. That shows how drunk he was, he was more concerned with not getting in trouble for a curfew violation than an actual DUI.

technomage1
02-13-2013, 09:23 AM
He only used that excuse to avoid getting busted for breaking curfew. That shows how drunk he was, he was more concerned with not getting in trouble for a curfew violation than an actual DUI.

If he'd have waited 1 more day it wouldn't have been an issue. There is no evidence either way that I can find that shows if he was lying or not about going to work. Maybe he was maybe he wasn't. If he's mx then they work all hours and he could've been night shift. Or he could've just been bombed out of his mind confused.

FLAPS
02-13-2013, 09:44 AM
If he'd have waited 1 more day it wouldn't have been an issue. There is no evidence either way that I can find that shows if he was lying or not about going to work. Maybe he was maybe he wasn't. If he's mx then they work all hours and he could've been night shift. Or he could've just been bombed out of his mind confused.

Typically SMSgts serve as the Asst AMU Superintendent, Lead Pro-Super or MAYBE a Section Chief (depending on size of section)...all on dayshift.

Unless they were going through an exercise, at that time of night in a fighter AMU the midshift servicing crew would be coming on shift. Unless they were short on pro-super MSgts, I find it hard to believe why a SMSgt would be going to work at that hour.

Absinthe Anecdote
02-13-2013, 10:10 AM
He's probably an alcoholic. .15 is the equivalent of 1/2 a pint of whiskey in your blood. Typically you only see that in younger troops who go out and binge drink. At his age and if he was "going into work" as he claimed - I'm guessing long term alcohol abuse.

One of the comments over on the Stars & Stripes page claimed that the guy's Facebook page is all photos of keg parties and wine cellars. If he hasn't taken down his FB page yet, I'll bet it will be gone soon.

Hey, how did you calculate that .15 equates to a half a pint of whiskey?

Not saying that you are wrong, I've always wondered how those percentage points equate to the amount of alcohol consumed by volume over time.

technomage1
02-13-2013, 12:31 PM
One of the comments over on the Stars & Stripes page claimed that the guy's Facebook page is all photos of keg parties and wine cellars. If he hasn't taken down his FB page yet, I'll bet it will be gone soon.

Hey, how did you calculate that .15 equates to a half a pint of whiskey?

Not saying that you are wrong, I've always wondered how those percentage points equate to the amount of alcohol consumed by volume over time.

I got it from here. www.intheknowzone.com/substance-abuse-topics/binge-drinking/blood-alcohol-concentration.html

imported_Renazance
02-13-2013, 12:32 PM
If he'd have waited 1 more day it wouldn't have been an issue. There is no evidence either way that I can find that shows if he was lying or not about going to work. Maybe he was maybe he wasn't. If he's mx then they work all hours and he could've been night shift. Or he could've just been bombed out of his mind confused.


Typically SMSgts serve as the Asst AMU Superintendent, Lead Pro-Super or MAYBE a Section Chief (depending on size of section)...all on dayshift.

Unless they were going through an exercise, at that time of night in a fighter AMU the midshift servicing crew would be coming on shift. Unless they were short on pro-super MSgts, I find it hard to believe why a SMSgt would be going to work at that hour.

Both good points, but someone of that rank and (presumably) older age should have better judgment. If you happened to get called in to work, tell your unit you're too drunk to go to work. And if there was an exercise going on and he was working nights, then he's a straight up dumbass for getting shitfaced before his shift and deserved to get busted.

Sergeant eNYgma
02-13-2013, 12:38 PM
True, bust him down in rank let him/her stay in. However, they used they're one chance. If they screw up again its a boot. None of the multiple DUI things. I'm just tired of hearing about people getting DUIs and people being killed by drunk drivers.

I can agree with that, if they keep him in def take a stripe.

technomage1
02-13-2013, 12:38 PM
Both good points, but someone of that rank and (presumably) older age should have better judgment. If you happened to get called in to work, tell your unit you're too drunk to go to work. And if there was an exercise going on and he was working nights, then he's a straight up dumbass for getting shitfaced before his shift and deserved to get busted.

100% agree, he shouldnt have been driving. no question. Most of your older dudes don't get shitfaced. That's partly why I think he may be an alcoholic. It takes effort to get your BAC up to that level. An alcoholic has built up a tolerance to the stuff over time and therefore will pull a higher BAC.

Sergeant eNYgma
02-13-2013, 12:51 PM
What a dumbass. He'll be paying for this for the rest of his life!

Welcome back...

JD2780
02-13-2013, 01:48 PM
I can agree with that, if they keep him in def take a stripe.

As for the SMSgt, hes most likely already passed 20. I say take a stripe and make him retire.

wxjumper
02-13-2013, 02:20 PM
Certainly not. I would however, like to see Os and Es both tossed out for DUIs. There is no excuse for it at all.

Well, do they have good PT scores and look good in a uniform?

BENDER56
02-13-2013, 03:07 PM
"A breathalyzer test detected an alcohol level of six times the legal limit of 0.15 milligrams per liter of exhaled breath, the police said."

Not sure if the writer of the article was indirectly quoting a police statement when he wrote this but it's very confusing. The way this is written, it means 0.15 milligrams is the legal limit, thus his level was six times that or 0.9 -- in which case he'd be dead.

So I assume the 0.15 refers to his BAL. But everything I've found online says Japan's max legal BAL is 0.03, which means if he was six times the limit he should have been 0.18. Either way, sloppy reporting.

BENDER56
02-13-2013, 03:11 PM
Typically SMSgts serve as the Asst AMU Superintendent, Lead Pro-Super or MAYBE a Section Chief (depending on size of section)...all on dayshift.

Unless they were going through an exercise, at that time of night in a fighter AMU the midshift servicing crew would be coming on shift. Unless they were short on pro-super MSgts, I find it hard to believe why a SMSgt would be going to work at that hour.

According to comments accompanying the original article, this guy was the unit's 1st Sgt. I'm assuming for a unit the size of a typical AMXS, that means he was an actual diamond-wearer and not an additional-duty 1st Sgt, but that's just a guess.

BRUWIN
02-13-2013, 03:13 PM
I'm still waiting for a maintenance guy to show up on this board to tell us that if maintenance guys had time off like everybody else then they wouldn't have to drink on the way to work.

Monkey
02-13-2013, 03:27 PM
If us maintenance guys had time off like everybody else, we wouldn't need to drink on our way to work.

SomeRandomGuy
02-13-2013, 03:30 PM
If us maintenance guys had time off like everybody else, we wouldn't need to drink on our way to work.

Well if you guys had simply went to college, then flight school, you could drink AT WORK in the fully stocked bar. In a way it is your own fault ;)

BRUWIN
02-13-2013, 03:33 PM
If us maintenance guys had time off like everybody else, we wouldn't need to drink on our way to work.

Amen brother!! :)

FLAPS
02-13-2013, 04:24 PM
Welcome back...

Well, I never really left...but thanks!

JD2780
02-13-2013, 04:29 PM
If us maintenance guys had time off like everybody else, we wouldn't need to drink on our way to work.

If you were anybody but maintenance you could multi-task.

BRUWIN
02-13-2013, 04:33 PM
If you were anybody but maintenance you could multi-task.

I witnessed a maintenance guy change a #1 engine main fuel control while eating a double-whopper...that's multi-tasking.

JD2780
02-13-2013, 04:39 PM
I witnessed a maintenance guy change a #1 engine main fuel control while eating a double-whopper...that's multi-tasking.

Nope. I need tangible proof. I've only seen a maintainer do one thing at a time. Usually it revolves around working, drinking, eating or talking shit about everybody else.

sandsjames
02-13-2013, 05:08 PM
Alright!!! In the last 2 days we've had a flight suit thread and, now, a thread that has turned into a maintenance thread. It's bee awhile. It's just like old times now.

JD2780
02-13-2013, 05:10 PM
Alright!!! In the last 2 days we've had a flight suit thread and, now, a thread that has turned into a maintenance thread. It's bee awhile. It's just like old times now.

Hold on........... Officers are lazy assholes that never get punished but enlisted get ran over constantly.

BOOM!!!! Now its done.

SomeRandomGuy
02-13-2013, 05:12 PM
Nope. I need tangible proof. I've only seen a maintainer do one thing at a time. Usually it revolves around working, drinking, eating or talking shit about everybody else.

True story...........I once helped a maintenance guy remember the date he arrived for his PCS voucher. He had no idea what day he arrived. He only remembered that it was sometime last week. I used my excellent customer service abilities to help him remember. I simply asked him what bar he went to the night he got into town. Once he told me the bar I asked him what the special was. As soon as he said it was $0.50 drafts I automatically knew he arrived last tuesday. Sometimes you just have to help them relate dates and numbers with alcohol. It really helps.

sandsjames
02-13-2013, 05:15 PM
Hold on........... Officers are lazy assholes that never get punished but enlisted get ran over constantly.

BOOM!!!! Now its done.

Sweet. One all encompassing thread.

BRUWIN
02-13-2013, 05:49 PM
True story...........I once helped a maintenance guy remember the date he arrived for his PCS voucher. He had no idea what day he arrived. He only remembered that it was sometime last week. I used my excellent customer service abilities to help him remember. I simply asked him what bar he went to the night he got into town. Once he told me the bar I asked him what the special was. As soon as he said it was $0.50 drafts I automatically knew he arrived last tuesday. Sometimes you just have to help them relate dates and numbers with alcohol. It really helps.

OK..now that as funny!

Absinthe Anecdote
02-13-2013, 07:31 PM
Has anyone been looking at the comments section on that article over on Stars & Stripe?

There is someone claiming to be his mother posting over there.

As his mother this breaks my heart. Your comments are cruel. Try to remember some of the many sacrifices Eric has made for us and his country in 23 years of service. It hasn't all been rainbows and sunshine.

Even if it is a troll post, what a hoot!

technomage1
02-13-2013, 07:37 PM
According to comments accompanying the original article, this guy was the unit's 1st Sgt. I'm assuming for a unit the size of a typical AMXS, that means he was an actual diamond-wearer and not an additional-duty 1st Sgt, but that's just a guess.

Now, see that just makes it 100X worse. The guy responsible for the enlisted discipline - or a least the CC's right hand man in the matter - getting in trouble like that? Come on!

Absinthe Anecdote
02-13-2013, 08:01 PM
Alcohol and vaginas don't mix

I'm thinking that you are either drunk or took too much ritalin or both.

AFCommunicator
02-14-2013, 02:15 AM
Okay, I have a dog in this fight. Since it seems many have not had this life changing experience, I will share.

199X. XXX AFB. Kid goes to his own going away party. Been on station nearly six years. Nearly a year prior, made SSgt (back when the promotion rate was around 13% or so, maybe more, maybe less) and his AFCM as a SrA was nearly a done deal. Just graduated DG from ALS, sweet assignment and sweeter follow-on assignment. Drank his butt off (he was 23 at the time) at his going away party in housing that a friend threw for him (key part to the story). His plan was in place - gave his keys to his buddy and told him that he was going to enjoy himself and not to give them back.

After a good seven hours of partying it up, things went sideways. Kid decides to leave the party. His plan worked - his buddy did not toss him his keys, he actually hid them. Determination being what it is, the Kid found his keys, jumped in his car and drove away. Remember, I mention that this was in housing right? Kid drove about a mile through housing, hit a main road leaving the base and was caught. This was at 2am or so. When pulled over, the Kid told the SFS troop he declined the field sobriety, and "let's just go to the station and see what the breathalyzer says". Thirty minutes later, and at a BAC of .21, the Kid is put in the holding room and the Shirt is called.

Now, let's talk consequences. Assignment, cancelled. Dec, declined. Kid lived off base, so with his year suspension he had to sell his crap and move into the dorms. SSgt stripe, yep, redlined. Try again in two years. Forfeiture of pay, yep. Additional duty, yep. Restriction to base, yep. Formal reprimand, yep. Loss of respect by both peers and supervisors, yep. Loss of self-esteem, yep. EPR? Well, that was kinda interesting. Referral 4. Kid actually argued with his supervisor about it (since he just got out of ALS), and said he did not deserve it...1 or 2 would have been more appropriate.

The "dig your way back story". A year later the Kid gets his line number back. Two years later, the Kid is NCO of the Year for the base. Evenutally leaves said base. Thirteen years later, the kid tests for SMSgt with that 4 on the bottom...crap board score. The next year it cycles out and he makes SMSgt. Retires as a Senior.

"Long lasting effects" of this experience. Kid still likes his beer and wine, no doubt. The Kid won't have 1, ever, and get behind the wheel. Have a beer while doing yardwork on Saturday then run to the store...nope. Night out with the better half...if she wants wine, I have Diet Coke and vice-versa.

Now, I don't disagree that a DUI is a criminal offense, hell, I had enough of my own Airmen deal with this problem over my career. I am to this day ashamed when I think about the lives I jeopardized (I drove through FREAKING HOUSING, the families I put at risk through no fault of their own) with this one bad decision. However, I do not agree with the statements that 1) it is a career-ender, or 2) us folks that make these bad decisions should be punished to the full extent of the UCMJ.

It's a bad decision that in some cases is made without recognizing the full spectrum of consequences, both for the individual and the collateral victims.

-AFC

JD2780
02-14-2013, 03:04 AM
Okay, I have a dog in this fight. Since it seems many have not had this life changing experience, I will share.

199X. XXX AFB. Kid goes to his own going away party. Been on station nearly six years. Nearly a year prior, made SSgt (back when the promotion rate was around 13% or so, maybe more, maybe less) and his AFCM as a SrA was nearly a done deal. Just graduated DG from ALS, sweet assignment and sweeter follow-on assignment. Drank his butt off (he was 23 at the time) at his going away party in housing that a friend threw for him (key part to the story). His plan was in place - gave his keys to his buddy and told him that he was going to enjoy himself and not to give them back.

After a good seven hours of partying it up, things went sideways. Kid decides to leave the party. His plan worked - his buddy did not toss him his keys, he actually hid them. Determination being what it is, the Kid found his keys, jumped in his car and drove away. Remember, I mention that this was in housing right? Kid drove about a mile through housing, hit a main road leaving the base and was caught. This was at 2am or so. When pulled over, the Kid told the SFS troop he declined the field sobriety, and "let's just go to the station and see what the breathalyzer says". Thirty minutes later, and at a BAC of .21, the Kid is put in the holding room and the Shirt is called.

Now, let's talk consequences. Assignment, cancelled. Dec, declined. Kid lived off base, so with his year suspension he had to sell his crap and move into the dorms. SSgt stripe, yep, redlined. Try again in two years. Forfeiture of pay, yep. Additional duty, yep. Restriction to base, yep. Formal reprimand, yep. Loss of respect by both peers and supervisors, yep. Loss of self-esteem, yep. EPR? Well, that was kinda interesting. Referral 4. Kid actually argued with his supervisor about it (since he just got out of ALS), and said he did not deserve it...1 or 2 would have been more appropriate.

The "dig your way back story". A year later the Kid gets his line number back. Two years later, the Kid is NCO of the Year for the base. Evenutally leaves said base. Thirteen years later, the kid tests for SMSgt with that 4 on the bottom...crap board score. The next year it cycles out and he makes SMSgt. Retires as a Senior.

"Long lasting effects" of this experience. Kid still likes his beer and wine, no doubt. The Kid won't have 1, ever, and get behind the wheel. Have a beer while doing yardwork on Saturday then run to the store...nope. Night out with the better half...if she wants wine, I have Diet Coke and vice-versa.

Now, I don't disagree that a DUI is a criminal offense, hell, I had enough of my own Airmen deal with this problem over my career. I am to this day ashamed when I think about the lives I jeopardized (I drove through FREAKING HOUSING, the families I put at risk through no fault of their own) with this one bad decision. However, I do not agree with the statements that 1) it is a career-ender, or 2) us folks that make these bad decisions should be punished to the full extent of the UCMJ.

It's a bad decision that in some cases is made without recognizing the full spectrum of consequences, both for the individual and the collateral victims.

-AFC

I've had a couple friends killed by a drunk driver while in college. Maybe a some jr enlisted should be handled the way you were, but a SMSgt with a DUI should lose a stripe and be forced to retire.

giggawatt
02-14-2013, 06:17 AM
Nice story. I like the part about the dragon.

Oh, you like dragons? I'll be dragon my balls across your face later. Wait, what?

technomage1
02-14-2013, 06:51 AM
I've had a couple friends killed by a drunk driver while in college. Maybe a some jr enlisted should be handled the way you were, but a SMSgt with a DUI should lose a stripe and be forced to retire.

Agree. The level of behavior expected from a E5 is different from the level of behavior expected from an E8.

Drackore
02-14-2013, 09:00 AM
Honestly at this point...it SHOULD be a career ending event. I'm tired of the briefings, tired of the weekend CC calls, tired of the "training", tired of the lectures. I'm really over it. It should be an automatic dismissal from the military. Pack your bags, get the fuck out. No benefits.

Harsh? Hell yea. Overdue? Absolutely. We kicked out people for saying "I'm gay" a few years ago. No one's life was ever in danger from that. People fail four PT tests in two years and we kick them out. No lives are really in danger from that. People drink and drive - lives are always in danger. People are still in. WTF?

imported_Renazance
02-14-2013, 09:49 AM
Honestly at this point...it SHOULD be a career ending event. I'm tired of the briefings, tired of the weekend CC calls, tired of the "training", tired of the lectures. I'm really over it. It should be an automatic dismissal from the military. Pack your bags, get the fuck out. No benefits.

Harsh? Hell yea. Overdue? Absolutely. We kicked out people for saying "I'm gay" a few years ago. No one's life was ever in danger from that. People fail four PT tests in two years and we kick them out. No lives are really in danger from that. People drink and drive - lives are always in danger. People are still in. WTF?

Spot on! If we keep coddling people for effing up, they'll never learn from their mistakes.

BRUWIN
02-14-2013, 11:14 AM
Honestly at this point...it SHOULD be a career ending event. I'm tired of the briefings, tired of the weekend CC calls, tired of the "training", tired of the lectures. I'm really over it. It should be an automatic dismissal from the military. Pack your bags, get the fuck out. No benefits.

Harsh? Hell yea. Overdue? Absolutely. We kicked out people for saying "I'm gay" a few years ago. No one's life was ever in danger from that. People fail four PT tests in two years and we kick them out. No lives are really in danger from that. People drink and drive - lives are always in danger. People are still in. WTF?

It's a desease.

tiredretiredE7
02-14-2013, 11:32 AM
It's a desease.

I currently live in a state where the first 2 DUIs are not a crime and there are increasing punishments going up to the 10th DUI.

Absinthe Anecdote
02-14-2013, 11:36 AM
Has anyone ever seen DUI statistics by location?

I've seen them by MAJCOM before but never by base.

I also would be like to see DUI statistics broken down by AFSC.

Okinawa is a special case because of media attention but I would guess they probably have one of the lower DUI rates in the AF.

There shouldn't be any DUI's; how fucking hard is it to call a cab?

Absinthe Anecdote
02-14-2013, 11:41 AM
It's a desease.

Look at Bruwin being all sophisticated with the French words!

tiredretiredE7
02-14-2013, 11:45 AM
There shouldn't be any DUI's; how fucking hard is it to call a cab?

I have three categories for DUIs from my experience; chronic alcoholic, gambler (they won't catch me) and idiot can't judge their level of intoxication (a cab is always the smart option but they are simply too stupid to make the correct choice). I would put this SMSgt in the gambler category. The only question now is why not too CM this guy. What kind of example would anything less than a CM send to the rest of the AF?

SomeRandomGuy
02-14-2013, 12:30 PM
I have three categories for DUIs from my experience; chronic alcoholic, gambler (they won't catch me) and idiot can't judge their level of intoxication (a cab is always the smart option but they are simply too stupid to make the correct choice). I would put this SMSgt in the gambler category. The only question now is why not too CM this guy. What kind of example would anything less than a CM send to the rest of the AF?

While your categories sound fine they are not measureable. The standards used by most judges paint a much better picture. There are basically 5 levels of DUI. 0.08-0.1= Low risk offender who most likely misjudged level of intoxication. 0.1-0.13= The "gambler" you mentioned who knew they were intoxicated but thought they could make it anyways. 0.13-0.16 (also include people who refuse to blow)=This group knows they are intoxicated does not really care about other's safety and normally have at least one prior DUI. 0.17-INFINITY = Hardcore alcoholic. These people have an extreme alcohol tolerance. The fact that they are even able to function at this level tells you how high their tolerance is. These are the people who typically get in collisions and kill others.

I heard an interesting statistic from a social worker a few years back. The average person who gets a DUI has driven drunk (0.08 or higher) around 100 times prior to getting a DUI. If you really think about this number and the people you see out at 0300 you would most likely be inclined to agree. Next time you go to a bar take a quick survey. Count the number of cars in the parking lot. Once you get inside take a quick count of the people drinking. Next count the number of people who are sober or not drinking. Subtract the number of sober people from the amount of cars in the parking lot. That will tell you the number of people who PLAN to drive home drunk.

technomage1
02-14-2013, 12:34 PM
I have three categories for DUIs from my experience; chronic alcoholic, gambler (they won't catch me) and idiot can't judge their level of intoxication (a cab is always the smart option but they are simply too stupid to make the correct choice). I would put this SMSgt in the gambler category. The only question now is why not too CM this guy. What kind of example would anything less than a CM send to the rest of the AF?

I'd say take a stripe, and retire him.

Reason being, generals can get DUIs and they can pcs, and take new jobs.

Www.airforcetimes.com/news/2010/05/airforce_dui_051410/

Brewhound
02-14-2013, 12:36 PM
I think this guy just F@#$Ked up is all. Maybe he needs help. Maybe not. Should he be punished?? Yes. Should he be made to retire? Maybe...It depends. I for one am all for equality. I say punch this guys ticket as soon as we start doing it for the G.O`s and other special people in the AF.
Now I am not advocating what this guy did, however, I think aloot of you are getting like the rest of the "Leadership" out there and quick to swing the axe. I think this guys deserves his punishment, (I.E demotion, forced retirement) But I also think deserves his retirement. Just my two cents.

CJSmith
02-14-2013, 12:46 PM
Has anyone ever seen DUI statistics by location?

I've seen them by MAJCOM before but never by base.

I also would be like to see DUI statistics broken down by AFSC.

Okinawa is a special case because of media attention but I would guess they probably have one of the lower DUI rates in the AF.

There shouldn't be any DUI's; how fucking hard is it to call a cab?

Not when I was stationed there from 03-05. We couldn't go longer than one week without a DUI. Base CC said he'd authorize a 1 day pass for everyone if we could make it to 30 days. Never happened. With the plethora of cabs, we couldn't believe the amount of DUIs that happened. CC tried damn near everything too. If a DUI happened in your Group, everyone in the group was mandated to form up on Saturday morning at 0600. Didn't stop anything. Shit, within one month of that rule - a couple fighter jocks got busted for it along with fighting. No matter what they tried, DUIs kept coming.

SomeRandomGuy
02-14-2013, 12:55 PM
Not when I was stationed there from 03-05. We couldn't go longer than one week without a DUI. Base CC said he'd authorize a 1 day pass for everyone if we could make it to 30 days. Never happened. With the plethora of cabs, we couldn't believe the amount of DUIs that happened. CC tried damn near everything too. If a DUI happened in your Group, everyone in the group was mandated to form up on Saturday morning at 0600. Didn't stop anything. Shit, within one month of that rule - a couple fighter jocks got busted for it along with fighting. No matter what they tried, DUIs kept coming.

It is important to remember that we are talking about a different standard in Japan. As mentioned above the legal limit in Japan is .02 which is 1/4 the legal limit of any state in America. That is important to remember when you are lumping all DUIs together. I had a friend who was stationed at Misawa. He went to a going away party for his squadron. He drank like a fish the entire time he was there. He did the right thing and called a cab at the end of the night. He went home and slept for around 8 hours. The next day he had one hell of what he thought was a hangover. He got a ride back to his car and tried to drive back on base. He gets nailed for a "DUI" where his BAC was .04. Because of all the other DUIs on base he got his ass nailed to the wall. Was suspended from driving on base for 2 years and demoted from A1C to AB. That does not seem really fair when you think about it. It is always important to factor circumstances into any punishment. This guy ened up filing an Article 138 and had his punishment reduced. The entire reason he got such a harsh punishment is because his commander was trying to send a message. His punishment ended up exceeding other more serious DUIs.

imported_Sgt HULK
02-14-2013, 12:55 PM
Oh, you like dragons? I'll be dragon my balls across your face later. Wait, what?

I just lost, coffee out my nose and ruined shirt:rockon

CJSmith
02-14-2013, 01:48 PM
It is important to remember that we are talking about a different standard in Japan. As mentioned above the legal limit in Japan is .02 which is 1/4 the legal limit of any state in America. That is important to remember when you are lumping all DUIs together. I had a friend who was stationed at Misawa. He went to a going away party for his squadron. He drank like a fish the entire time he was there. He did the right thing and called a cab at the end of the night. He went home and slept for around 8 hours. The next day he had one hell of what he thought was a hangover. He got a ride back to his car and tried to drive back on base. He gets nailed for a "DUI" where his BAC was .04. Because of all the other DUIs on base he got his ass nailed to the wall. Was suspended from driving on base for 2 years and demoted from A1C to AB. That does not seem really fair when you think about it. It is always important to factor circumstances into any punishment. This guy ened up filing an Article 138 and had his punishment reduced. The entire reason he got such a harsh punishment is because his commander was trying to send a message. His punishment ended up exceeding other more serious DUIs.

True. I do remember them briefing us on driving the morning after drinking. I remember a few folks getting nailed this way.

Steve-OK
02-14-2013, 10:21 PM
It's a desease.

Alcoholism is the only disease you can get yelled at for having.

Eastwood
06-23-2013, 01:44 PM
Doubtful! Im sure it will come as no surprise that he is being allowed to finish his career. His promotion chances are shot, along with his reputation.

Airborne
06-23-2013, 02:18 PM
Doubtful! Im sure it will come as no surprise that he is being allowed to finish his career. His promotion chances are shot, along with his reputation.

Doesnt matter. He will be forgotten about as soon as he walks out the door just like every other senior and chief. And his retirement check cashes just the same as the outstanding seniors and chiefs.

FLAPS, USAF (ret)
06-23-2013, 02:43 PM
Doesnt matter. He will be forgotten about as soon as he walks out the door just like every other senior and chief. And his retirement check cashes just the same as the outstanding seniors and chiefs.

So, so true...

imported_KnuckleDragger
06-23-2013, 02:54 PM
What happened to this guy?