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View Full Version : Why I'd never do a day over 20



sandsjames
02-12-2013, 12:26 AM
Superintendent tells me today that I'll have to PT test again before I retire in June (PT test current as of December). I start PTDY on 25 June. Super said that the Commander doesn't want me to show up as noncurrent. I send a copy of the AFI stating that the Commander "will" exempt members who will be on PTDY/Terminal in conjunction with retirement. The Super comes back and says that the Chief said that since my PT test date was December 12th, my 6 month mark is June 12th, and after that I'm "noncurrent". I send the AFI stating that one is not noncurrent until the 1st day of the following month.

Now I'm waiting to hear more tomorrow. This stupidity is why I'd never do a day over 20. I feel an IG visit coming up. Actually, I'm looking forward to it.

PT GOD
02-12-2013, 12:32 AM
just focus all dat energy on da test and stop whining like a airman basic strait up out of teknical school..it jst be one more test, why you be caring,hell..i'd make htem test me even If i didnt have too just so i could show everyone up one last time...haters gonna hate..and fatties gonna complain...the end..

efmbman
02-12-2013, 12:35 AM
That's the sort of situation that one would wish common sense would take over. As a serviemember, I hoped (even expected) that mutual respect exists and the bosses would cover our asses. Doesn't happen in the USAF either, I see. In your case, I would be proud to have a CO that would explain that "noncurrent" to the next higher echelon as what it is - retarded. "This one noncurrent you see represents someone that is retiring, in fact he begins transition PTDY on 25 JUN so you will not see this in next month's report. It is a non-issue." When in command, command dammit.

tiredretiredE7
02-12-2013, 01:17 AM
Superintendent tells me today that I'll have to PT test again before I retire in June (PT test current as of December). I start PTDY on 25 June. Super said that the Commander doesn't want me to show up as noncurrent. I send a copy of the AFI stating that the Commander "will" exempt members who will be on PTDY/Terminal in conjunction with retirement. The Super comes back and says that the Chief said that since my PT test date was December 12th, my 6 month mark is June 12th, and after that I'm "noncurrent". I send the AFI stating that one is not noncurrent until the 1st day of the following month.

Now I'm waiting to hear more tomorrow. This stupidity is why I'd never do a day over 20. I feel an IG visit coming up. Actually, I'm looking forward to it.

Don't look at the trip to the IG as something you are doing for yourself but something that you are doing for you peers and subordinates. Your enlisted leadership probably don't know the AFI and are too scared to tell your CC they made a mistake.

What have you decided about your retirement ceremony?

raider8169
02-12-2013, 01:39 AM
If you are that close to the end just dont test agian. Fuck'em. If it becomes an issues within the last 6 months until I retire I have no intention of killing myself to pass. I would like to end on a good note but by that time there will be more important things to worry about.

KRC
02-12-2013, 01:49 AM
Take the PT test on the 5th, flunk it, and watch them spin their wheels after they realize you are leaving in less than 2 weeks. Or, better yet the day before you test, develop one hell of a back ache, go to medical. jump through all of the possible hoops you can. Hopefully, someone in your chain will just say, go ahead and outprocess. PS...there is definately life after big blue. Congrats and enjoy.

BRUWIN
02-12-2013, 02:49 AM
Superintendent tells me today that I'll have to PT test again before I retire in June (PT test current as of December). I start PTDY on 25 June. Super said that the Commander doesn't want me to show up as noncurrent. I send a copy of the AFI stating that the Commander "will" exempt members who will be on PTDY/Terminal in conjunction with retirement. The Super comes back and says that the Chief said that since my PT test date was December 12th, my 6 month mark is June 12th, and after that I'm "noncurrent". I send the AFI stating that one is not noncurrent until the 1st day of the following month.

Now I'm waiting to hear more tomorrow. This stupidity is why I'd never do a day over 20. I feel an IG visit coming up. Actually, I'm looking forward to it.

But you will be non-concurrent from the 12th-25th of Jun. You must take the test.

CrustySMSgt
02-12-2013, 03:07 AM
But you will be non-concurrent from the 12th-25th of Jun. You must take the test.

sorry my friend, not so much. :crazy

Not usually an advocate for thumbing your nose at the man, but I actually gotta side with KRC... go skip around the track and eat a jelly doughnut while you do one situp. :rockon

Or just don't show up and take your LOC like a man and in your rebuttal, let them know (respectfully and proffesionally) just how stupid you think they are... quoting AFIs to back you up of course!

71Fish
02-12-2013, 03:23 AM
I wonder what would happen if you took the test and failed. A "noncurrent" is easy to explain on a slide, "the dude is on Permissive/Terminal. But a failure on a slide for a guy on permissive/terminal would aggravate the commander every week he sees it.

PT GOD
02-12-2013, 03:58 AM
or why not just live up to them core values and smoke dat test...or does "excellence in all I do" only matter for new airman and just totally thrown out dat window once you hit SNCO.

CrustySMSgt
02-12-2013, 04:16 AM
or why not just live up to them core values and smoke dat test...or does "excellence in all I do" only matter for new airman and just totally thrown out dat window once you hit SNCO.

He is demonstrating his excellence by demanding his commander comply with the AFI that MANDATES his exemption from the test.



13. Unit Commanders will exempt from the FA, Airmen who are on terminal leave/Permissive Temporary Duty in conjunction with retirement/separation, incarcerated, or on appellate leave or excess leave pending separation.

Is it too much to ask that the person empowered with command through G-Series orders complies with an AFI, to which compliance is mandatory, as signed by the 3-star? The "will" is underlined for a reason. It doesn't say should, may, could, might, etc. In making the member test, the commander is in violation of Article 92 of the UCMJ and should be held accountable. How's that for excellence?

imported_DannyJ
02-12-2013, 04:27 AM
Superintendent tells me today that I'll have to PT test again before I retire in June (PT test current as of December). I start PTDY on 25 June. Super said that the Commander doesn't want me to show up as noncurrent. I send a copy of the AFI stating that the Commander "will" exempt members who will be on PTDY/Terminal in conjunction with retirement. The Super comes back and says that the Chief said that since my PT test date was December 12th, my 6 month mark is June 12th, and after that I'm "noncurrent". I send the AFI stating that one is not noncurrent until the 1st day of the following month.

Now I'm waiting to hear more tomorrow. This stupidity is why I'd never do a day over 20. I feel an IG visit coming up. Actually, I'm looking forward to it.

And this is why I believe there aren't that many Chiefs left out there. A WHOLE lot of E9s, not so many Chiefs.

imported_DannyJ
02-12-2013, 04:30 AM
He is demonstrating his excellence by demanding his commander comply with the AFI that MANDATES his exemption from the test.



Is it too much to ask that the person empowered with command through G-Series orders complies with an AFI, to which compliance is mandatory, as signed by the 3-star? The "will" is underlined for a reason. It doesn't say should, may, could, might, etc. In making the member test, the commander is in violation of Article 92 of the UCMJ and should be held accountable. How's that for excellence?

Respectfully Chief, when has that stopped any reject O (or E for that matter) from doing whatever the hell they feel like? Shoot, we have 3 stars contradicting the AFIs they themselves signed (with the "COMPLIANCE IS MANDATORY" stamped right on it). Hate to be the constant complainer, but damn.

CrustySMSgt
02-12-2013, 04:41 AM
Respectfully Chief, when has that stopped any reject O (or E for that matter) from doing whatever the hell they feel like? Shoot, we have 3 stars contradicting the AFIs they themselves signed (with the "COMPLIANCE IS MANDATORY" stamped right on it). Hate to be the constant complainer, but damn.

Would love to argue the contrary... but you know I can't. lol

If the Sq/CC fails to comply then the next COA would be to inform his supervisor of his troop's noncompliance. This is a black & white issue, nothing to interpret or read between the lines. He is current until 2359 on 30 June, at which time he'll be on PTDY and the AFI MANDATES the commander exempt him.

imported_DannyJ
02-12-2013, 04:46 AM
Would love to argue the contrary... but you know I can't. lol

If the Sq/CC fails to comply then the next COA would be to inform his supervisor of his troop's noncompliance. This is a black & white issue, nothing to interpret or read between the lines. He is current until 2359 on 30 June, at which time he'll be on PTDY and the AFI MANDATES the commander exempt him.

I stuck the same thing to the UFPM right before I deployed to Iraq in 2011. I scheduled to depart (and did) on the 24th and informed him I was current until the 1st and would NOT be testing prior to deployment. I would have loved to got a picture of his face at that exact moment. Even funnier part was that I was a PTL.

Tooltime
02-12-2013, 05:40 AM
So glad I Retired.

Just curious - why did this even come up? Did your supervision bring it up, or did you ask about testing? I sat through a lot of Staff Meetings before I Retired (2 years worth), and I don't remember my Commander(s) getting worked up about PT Tests that were 4 months out. Sounds like there may be some history here, and they are using the PT Test as a "we got the last laugh" on your way out the door. Are they holding your Retirement Decoration on a Pass/Fail result?

Don't misunderstand my intent - I am on your side. After 23 years, 5 leg surgeries, bad back and a shoulder surgery - I had finally had enough of trying to keep up with the ever changing "standards" of the PT Test. Long story, but I required an ADSC waiver (DEROS curtailment). My Commander/Chief had my back, and helped push this through the WG (twice) so I could apply for Retirement. My final PT test wasn't in my PTDY/Terminal Leave month, but if it had been - there is no way they would have made me test. This seems personal - not just an issue of a CC worried about explaining a "non-current" on a Retiring member. Keep us updated.

Did I already mention how happy I am to be Retired, and not a part of this Circus anymore?

imported_Renazance
02-12-2013, 05:50 AM
Superintendent tells me today that I'll have to PT test again before I retire in June (PT test current as of December). I start PTDY on 25 June. Super said that the Commander doesn't want me to show up as noncurrent. I send a copy of the AFI stating that the Commander "will" exempt members who will be on PTDY/Terminal in conjunction with retirement. The Super comes back and says that the Chief said that since my PT test date was December 12th, my 6 month mark is June 12th, and after that I'm "noncurrent". I send the AFI stating that one is not noncurrent until the 1st day of the following month.

Now I'm waiting to hear more tomorrow. This stupidity is why I'd never do a day over 20. I feel an IG visit coming up. Actually, I'm looking forward to it.

Sounds like your Super doesn't have the cojones to stand up to the Chief and CC and show them the reg and your CC is just trying to look like the golden child at the wing staff meeting by having his slides show up all green. I hate it when leadership is more concerned about superficial sh*t and how they look on a slide show than actual problems.

I say screw them, don't take the test, have your retirement ceremony and be on your way. If they refuse to give you a retirement dec because of this, I would definitely hit up the IG.

CrustySMSgt
02-12-2013, 06:05 AM
Sounds like your Super doesn't have the cojones to stand up to the Chief and CC and show them the reg and your CC is just trying to look like the golden child at the wing staff meeting by having his slides show up all green. I hate it when leadership is more concerned about superficial sh*t and how they look on a slide show than actual problems.

I say screw them, don't take the test, have your retirement ceremony and be on your way. If they refuse to give you a retirement dec because of this, I would definitely hit up the IG.

being exempt = current, so this is a non-issue.

imported_Renazance
02-12-2013, 08:35 AM
being exempt = current, so this is a non-issue.

You have a point, if only we were talking about a chain of command with common sense. But this doesn't seem to be that case.

technomage1
02-12-2013, 10:27 AM
I'd have thought the will not, especially given that its underlined, would have been clear enough. You're not overdue until July 1. You shouldn't have to take the test. And if they snarl your retirement dec up on it that is an IG complaint.

This kind of stupidity is the reason we have the pt afi updated/clarified every 6 months and other ones only get updated once a decade. Its not rocket science. Honestly, if your chain can't figure this out then they're not qualified to be in the positions they're in.

SeeBee
02-12-2013, 11:52 AM
I agree with what you're saying--the stupid way the regs are being interpreted here. And I don't want to be a wet blanket, but...I think "Permissive TDY in conjunction with Retirement" is 'at the commanders discretion', is it not? As you read over the various, bold "opinions" posted here, you may want to remember that YOU are the only one seeking that permission. Definitely assert the regs--but do so respectfully. No sense in talking yourself out of the PTDY. I've seen retiring folks denied PTDY and terminal for failing PT grades. Best of luck in your future and thanks for your service (don't let this one crappy episode taint your view of the AF--it's still a great place) :-)

sandsjames
02-12-2013, 11:58 AM
So glad I Retired.

Just curious - why did this even come up? Did your supervision bring it up, or did you ask about testing? I sat through a lot of Staff Meetings before I Retired (2 years worth), and I don't remember my Commander(s) getting worked up about PT Tests that were 4 months out. Sounds like there may be some history here, and they are using the PT Test as a "we got the last laugh" on your way out the door. Are they holding your Retirement Decoration on a Pass/Fail result?

Don't misunderstand my intent - I am on your side. After 23 years, 5 leg surgeries, bad back and a shoulder surgery - I had finally had enough of trying to keep up with the ever changing "standards" of the PT Test. Long story, but I required an ADSC waiver (DEROS curtailment). My Commander/Chief had my back, and helped push this through the WG (twice) so I could apply for Retirement. My final PT test wasn't in my PTDY/Terminal Leave month, but if it had been - there is no way they would have made me test. This seems personal - not just an issue of a CC worried about explaining a "non-current" on a Retiring member. Keep us updated.

Did I already mention how happy I am to be Retired, and not a part of this Circus anymore?

I have the same question. I'm not sure why. Here are the facts of both sides:

I have failed a couple tests in the past, but recently passed (in December) with an 87.

I am on shift work, which means some days I am at squadron PT, somedays I am not.

Last week, a member of my flight overheard our Chief asking my Super why I wasn't at PT (this was asked before the recent fiasco started).

Yesterday, the Super asks me if my NCOIC has talked to me about PT testing. I said no, and that's when the whole thing started.

As to who initially said what to whom, I have no idea. I need to go speak with the Commander today because I don't know if ANY of this is coming from him. It may be at the Chief, it may be at flight level, not sure.

sandsjames
02-12-2013, 12:00 PM
I agree with what you're saying--the stupid way the regs are being interpreted here. And I don't want to be a wet blanket, but...I think "Permissive TDY in conjunction with Retirement" is 'at the commanders discretion', is it not? As you read over the various, bold "opinions" posted here, you may want to remember that YOU are the only one seeking that permission. Definitely assert the regs--but do so respectfully. No sense in talking yourself out of the PTDY. I've seen retiring folks denied PTDY and terminal for failing PT grades. Best of luck in your future and thanks for your service (don't let this one crappy episode taint your view of the AF--it's still a great place) :-)

PTDY is at the Commanders discretion, but he already approved it and signed the form a couple weeks ago. I've already taken it to MPF and Finance to schedule my final outs.

sandsjames
02-12-2013, 12:04 PM
What have you decided about your retirement ceremony?

Going to be pretty standard. Will do the flag folding ceremony. Everyone has said that it's a must.

sandsjames
02-12-2013, 12:06 PM
Just want to point out that I'm not "concerned" with the outcome of this at it relates to me. It will have zero impact on me whether I test with effort, test with no effort, or don't test at all. It just pisses me off that it even becomes an issue.

CrustySMSgt
02-12-2013, 12:07 PM
PTDY is at the Commanders discretion, but he already approved it and signed the form a couple weeks ago. I've already taken it to MPF and Finance to schedule my final outs.

Seems like that would seal the deal. Any changes to that to force you to test when you're currently in compliance could certainly be seen as retribution.

I would document every conversation on the subject, and if you can, send your questions via email and get a written response.

sandsjames
02-12-2013, 12:13 PM
Seems like that would seal the deal. Any changes to that to force you to test when you're currently in compliance could certainly be seen as retribution.

I would document every conversation on the subject, and if you can, send your questions via email and get a written response.

Am doing that. If indeed it is coming from Commander level (which I'll hopefully find out today) then I am fully expecting an attempt to revoke the PTDY. If that happens, things will get very interesting.

If it's not coming from the Commander, today should be the end of it. He always seemed like a pretty level headed guy. I can't see him pushing something this stupid.

Absinthe Anecdote
02-12-2013, 12:52 PM
Superintendent tells me today that I'll have to PT test again before I retire in June (PT test current as of December). I start PTDY on 25 June. Super said that the Commander doesn't want me to show up as noncurrent. I send a copy of the AFI stating that the Commander "will" exempt members who will be on PTDY/Terminal in conjunction with retirement. The Super comes back and says that the Chief said that since my PT test date was December 12th, my 6 month mark is June 12th, and after that I'm "noncurrent". I send the AFI stating that one is not noncurrent until the 1st day of the following month.

Now I'm waiting to hear more tomorrow. This stupidity is why I'd never do a day over 20. I feel an IG visit coming up. Actually, I'm looking forward to it.

I’m a little puzzled over what the big deal is about taking your very last PT test.

Why not just take the PT test instead of creating a bunch of drama with the Chief and CC?
Do you have trouble passing them?

I hope you were just being flippant about taking this to the IG because that sounds like something PYB would do.

It will probably be a nice spring day when you test, enjoy it! Take your time getting showered and changing back into uniform after the test and have a nice lunch with your friends.

You are leaving the Air Force forever in a few months, relax and enjoy the ride.

tiredretiredE7
02-12-2013, 01:45 PM
Am doing that. If indeed it is coming from Commander level (which I'll hopefully find out today) then I am fully expecting an attempt to revoke the PTDY. If that happens, things will get very interesting.

If it's not coming from the Commander, today should be the end of it. He always seemed like a pretty level headed guy. I can't see him pushing something this stupid.

I will put my money on someone in the enlisted CoC miss counting the months, gave the bad information to the CC and now does not want to tell the CC they screwed up. Be prepared for the CC to ask you to take the test anyway to helpout the squadron FA stats.

tiredretiredE7
02-12-2013, 01:45 PM
Am doing that. If indeed it is coming from Commander level (which I'll hopefully find out today) then I am fully expecting an attempt to revoke the PTDY. If that happens, things will get very interesting.

If it's not coming from the Commander, today should be the end of it. He always seemed like a pretty level headed guy. I can't see him pushing something this stupid.

I will put my money on someone in the enlisted CoC miss counting the months, gave the bad information to the CC and now does not want to tell the CC they screwed up. Be prepared for the CC to ask you to take the test anyway to helpout the squadron FA stats.

CrustySMSgt
02-12-2013, 02:05 PM
I will put my money on someone in the enlisted CoC miss counting the months, gave the bad information to the CC and now does not want to tell the CC they screwed up. Be prepared for the CC to ask you to take the test anyway to helpout the squadron FA stats.

Once again, how will this help the stats? exempt = current

TSgt"M"
02-12-2013, 02:25 PM
I was within weeks of terminal leave and had to do NBC with/chamber and M-16.

CrustySMSgt
02-12-2013, 02:30 PM
I was within weeks of terminal leave and had to do NBC with/chamber and M-16.

100% agree that makes no sense at all, but there wasn't an AFI saying your CC WILL exempt you from the training.

sandsjames
02-12-2013, 03:03 PM
I’m a little puzzled over what the big deal is about taking your very last PT test.

Why not just take the PT test instead of creating a bunch of drama with the Chief and CC?
Do you have trouble passing them? This isn't about the PT test. I'm surprised that you would support not holding the CoC responsible to follow the very clear AFI. And they are the ones creating the drama, not me.


I hope you were just being flippant about taking this to the IG because that sounds like something PYB would do. I made some comments yesterday out of frustration. I probably should have taken some time to calm down before I posted. However, if they continue to push this, I will have to decide what action to take.


It will probably be a nice spring day when you test, enjoy it! Take your time getting showered and changing back into uniform after the test and have a nice lunch with your friends. It will be a June day at Beale. Probably about 90 degrees. However, I won't need to shower because it doesn't take much energy to do the following: 1. Put a knee down at beginning of situps. 2. "Rest" on my back on the first situp. 3. Step off the track at the beginning of the run.


You are leaving the Air Force forever in a few months, relax and enjoy the ride. I will enjoy the ride. I'm much calmer now. I do think it's funny that you would give any support the the Commander/Chief batently violating the AFI in order to avoid showing a noncurrent (which would NOT be a noncurrent based on the AFI) on a slideshow.

Absinthe Anecdote
02-12-2013, 03:24 PM
This isn't about the PT test. I'm surprised that you would support not holding the CoC responsible to follow the very clear AFI. And they are the ones creating the drama, not me.

I made some comments yesterday out of frustration. I probably should have taken some time to calm down before I posted. However, if they continue to push this, I will have to decide what action to take.

It will be a June day at Beale. Probably about 90 degrees. However, I won't need to shower because it doesn't take much energy to do the following: 1. Put a knee down at beginning of situps. 2. "Rest" on my back on the first situp. 3. Step off the track at the beginning of the run.

I will enjoy the ride. I'm much calmer now. I do think it's funny that you would give any support the the Commander/Chief batently violating the AFI in order to avoid showing a noncurrent (which would NOT be a noncurrent based on the AFI) on a slideshow.

I understand why that irritates you, I really do.

However, sometimes it is better for you to just let stupid shit slide.

You really can, “pick your battles.”

Good luck to you and don’t let those dumb asses get you all upset.

It isn’t worth it. :)

sandsjames
02-12-2013, 03:51 PM
I understand why that irritates you, I really do.

However, sometimes it is better for you to just let stupid shit slide. The reason this keeps happening is because everyone always let's the "stupid shit slide". It happens enough that the AFI had to be clarified, with the word "will" underlined, about exemptions while on PTDY in conjunction with retirement.


You really can, “pick your battles.” And this may be one that I choose to pick. Again, if it keeps happening and nobody raises a stink, it will never change.


Good luck to you and don’t let those dumb asses get you all upset.

It isn’t worth it. :) Won't be upset at all. Nothing to be upset about, until he decides to cancel my PTDY in order to get rid of the loophole. I doubt that will happen, but it wouldn't be unexpected.

imported_chipotleboy
02-12-2013, 03:53 PM
Sandsjames,

Good luck, and I hope you win this. I started PTDY/terminal leave a week before I was due for my PFT. My PTL was actually going to try to make me take the test so I wouldn't show up as noncurrent on the slides until my retirement date. When I explained that if I failed the test, I'd be gone before any follow-up action could happen to me, the fail would show up as a black mark on the unit stats which he, not I, cared about, and that he was only wasting his time by having me take a test that wasn't required by the AFI. He quickly dropped the issue.

tiredretiredE7
02-12-2013, 04:54 PM
Once again, how will this help the stats? exempt = current

Some wing staff meetings have average scores for each squadron briefed during the PPTs. I know the scores don't matter (unless its a failing score) but it is a source for unwanted attention from wing leadership.

sandsjames
02-12-2013, 05:02 PM
Some wing staff meetings have average scores for each squadron briefed during the PPTs. I know the scores don't matter (unless its a failing score) but it is a source for unwanted attention from wing leadership.

My last score was an 86. That would neither raise nor lower the average of the squadron.

TSgt"M"
02-12-2013, 06:19 PM
100% agree that makes no sense at all, but there wasn't an AFI saying your CC WILL exempt you from the training.

I realize this, just saying big blue has been f cking with people for a long time. Oh and forgot the terminal leave piss test. Sheez, for crying out loud.

Capt Alfredo
02-12-2013, 10:49 PM
86?!?

No wonder they want you to retest.
An 86 is not excellence on all you did!

It's 11 points more than the standard dictates, might I remind you.

FLAPS
02-12-2013, 11:57 PM
This is an enlisted matter major.
How many officers are losing rank
Or careers? Hardly any!

86 may be 11 above bare minimum,
But its 4 short of excellent, so piss off

86 earns you a B+ in most public schools

CrustySMSgt
02-13-2013, 04:53 AM
Some wing staff meetings have average scores for each squadron briefed during the PPTs. I know the scores don't matter (unless its a failing score) but it is a source for unwanted attention from wing leadership.

I'm thinking his exempt will not be a blip on the radar... but his "kiss my ass" failure will drop the average, since all he'll get points for is his A/C (unless that has been his issue and maybe not even then).

CrustySMSgt
02-13-2013, 04:57 AM
I hope you were just being flippant about taking this to the IG because that sounds like something PYB would do.


I'm usually the first one to call people out for throwing out the "going to the IG" card... but in this case it would actually be right in the IG lane. If he continues to press the issue, pointing out his CC's non-compliance with a black and white order in the AFI and to get around it the CC recinded his approved PTDY, that would be a textbook case of reprisal... even IF they tried to come up with some BS "needs of the Air Force" justification.

sandsjames
02-13-2013, 12:55 PM
I've got my Flight CC involved now. Apparently, he had no idea any of this was going on. It went from the Commander/Chief (I list both because those were the names thrown at me) to my Superintendent, without the flight CC (Captain) knowing anything. He has reviewed the AFIs and is completely on my side. Now, he said he just needs to find the right way to "convey" this message to his boss.

Still would like to know who actually started all of it. Me pushing the issue has seemed to work so far. It shouldn't take me having to point out AFI's, etc, but I guess it's not fair to expect the CoC to know all the rapidly changing AFIs anymore than I would expect myself to be able to keep up with the changes.

Either that or they knew and didn't expect anyone to follow up, thinking I'd just roll over and do what they say. Either way, it seems the CoC (once everyone in the CoC was actually involved) could possibly work.

BRUWIN
02-13-2013, 01:00 PM
I've got my Flight CC involved now. Apparently, he had no idea any of this was going on. It went from the Commander/Chief (I list both because those were the names thrown at me) to my Superintendent, without the flight CC (Captain) knowing anything. He has reviewed the AFIs and is completely on my side. Now, he said he just needs to find the right way to "convey" this message to his boss.

Still would like to know who actually started all of it. Me pushing the issue has seemed to work so far. It shouldn't take me having to point out AFI's, etc, but I guess it's not fair to expect the CoC to know all the rapidly changing AFIs anymore than I would expect myself to be able to keep up with the changes.

Either that or they knew and didn't expect anyone to follow up, thinking I'd just roll over and do what they say. Either way, it seems the CoC (once everyone in the CoC was actually involved) could possibly work.

You have to take the test or the slides will show you non concurrent.

technomage1
02-13-2013, 01:15 PM
I've got my Flight CC involved now. Apparently, he had no idea any of this was going on. It went from the Commander/Chief (I list both because those were the names thrown at me) to my Superintendent, without the flight CC (Captain) knowing anything. He has reviewed the AFIs and is completely on my side. Now, he said he just needs to find the right way to "convey" this message to his boss.

Still would like to know who actually started all of it. Me pushing the issue has seemed to work so far. It shouldn't take me having to point out AFI's, etc, but I guess it's not fair to expect the CoC to know all the rapidly changing AFIs anymore than I would expect myself to be able to keep up with the changes.

Either that or they knew and didn't expect anyone to follow up, thinking I'd just roll over and do what they say. Either way, it seems the CoC (once everyone in the CoC was actually involved) could possibly work.

I had something similar happen prior to my deployment. They made some people test out of cycle, they got to me and I showed them the AFI. As long as you have a current score prior to deployment youre good to go. Didn't test and haven't heard anything about it.

As far as your case, how to tell the CC? Oh, look boss, the most recent AFI change shows what you're about to do is specifically prohibited. Now, the reaction should be "gee, you're right. Thanks for pointing that out and preventing me from making a mistake". The sad reality is that oftentimes the reaction is: "you've proven me wrong and therefore must be my enemy. Prepare to be destroyed".

sandsjames
02-13-2013, 01:17 PM
Hope your not looking for a retirement dec.

Nope. Not getting one. I've already refused my last EPR, plus I had a previous PT failure. The dec was never on the table.

sandsjames
02-13-2013, 01:18 PM
I had something similar happen prior to my deployment. They made some people test out of cycle, they got to me and I showed them the AFI. As long as you have a current score prior to deployment youre good to go. Didn't test and haven't heard anything about it.

As far as your case, how to tell the CC? Oh, look boss, the most recent AFI change shows what you're about to do is specifically prohibited. Now, the reaction should be "gee, you're right. Thanks for pointing that out and preventing me from making a mistake". The sad reality is that oftentimes the reaction is: "you've proven me wrong and therefore must be my enemy. Prepare to be destroyed".

Luckily with 4 months left, retirement orders in hand, PTDY/Terminal leave already approved, final outprocessing date scheduled, there is nothing he can do to destroy me.

Monkey
02-13-2013, 01:21 PM
Nope. Not getting one. I've already refused my last EPR, plus I had a previous PT failure. The dec was never on the table.

I'm not sure why you'd want one. What possible purpose could it serve? It certainly won't get you a job.

technomage1
02-13-2013, 01:23 PM
Nope. Not getting one. I've already refused my last EPR, plus I had a previous PT failure. The dec was never on the table.

Oh, this makes it easy then. Sign up for the test on the last day of the month. Do 1 push-up, 1 sit-up, and walk around the track 6 times. This will equal spectacular failure, which your CC will then have to explain, which will lead to him having to explain why you were tested to begin with.

BRUWIN
02-13-2013, 01:31 PM
Oh, this makes it easy then. Sign up for the test on the last day of the month. Do 1 push-up, 1 sit-up, and walk around the track 6 times. This will equal spectacular failure, which your CC will then have to explain, which will lead to him having to explain why you were tested to begin with.

He has to take the test or the slides will show non-concurrent.

technomage1
02-13-2013, 01:33 PM
He has to take the test or the slides will show non-concurrent.

Negative, they would show him as exempt. He's current until midnight the last day of June. As of July 1 he is exempt.

Monkey
02-13-2013, 01:37 PM
He has to take the test or the slides will show non-concurrent.

Nice touch.

JD2780
02-13-2013, 01:37 PM
Speaking of the need to quote AFIs. I had a MARLO qoute AFIs to ACC. THey were trying to go around it saying they could throw more students at us, but based off of our AFI we had to maintain a student to instructor ratio of 2:1 while controlling aircraft. ACC thought they could do more but our MARLO who was our OIC at the time asked why he had to repeatedly quote airforce instructructions to an airforce majcom. It was great to listen to.

BRUWIN
02-13-2013, 01:37 PM
Negative, they would show him as exempt. He's current until midnight the last day of June. As of July 1 he is exempt.

No they wouldn't show him as exempt. That is why they need him to take the test. You're outta your league on this one.

SomeRandomGuy
02-13-2013, 01:39 PM
Negative, they would show him as exempt. He's current until midnight the last day of June. As of July 1 he is exempt.

I think Bru got you.

Non-current (what you thought he said) is when someone is not currently in line with a regulation or up to date on some standard.

Non concurrent (what he said) is when someone refuses to comply or concur. I think non-concurrent would be a great way to describe this situation.

technomage1
02-13-2013, 01:40 PM
I think Bru got you.

Non-current (what you thought he said) is when someone is not currently in line with a regulation or up to date on some standard.

Non concurrent (what he said) is when someone refuses to comply or concur. I think non-concurrent would be a great way to describe this situation.

Ah, looks like I need a bit more coffee this morning. I should know better than to take anything he says seriously.

Grammar Police
02-13-2013, 06:39 PM
Or just don't show up and take your LOC like a man and in your rebuttal, let them know (respectfully and proffesionally) just how stupid you think they are... quoting AFIs to back you up of course!

Your spelling of "professionally" is wrong. I'm quoting a dictionary to back me up of course! :welcome

BRUWIN
02-13-2013, 07:00 PM
I think Bru got you.

Non-current (what you thought he said) is when someone is not currently in line with a regulation or up to date on some standard.

Non concurrent (what he said) is when someone refuses to comply or concur. I think non-concurrent would be a great way to describe this situation.

He has to take the test or the ppt slides will show him non-concurrent. I'm not sure why people don't understand this.

giggawatt
02-14-2013, 06:10 AM
Good thing they're not vagina testing you.

Oooooohhhhhhh! Does Beale have a burn trauma center?

sandsjames
02-14-2013, 02:10 PM
Oooooohhhhhhh! Does Beale have a burn trauma center?

Yes, but it's closed Monday-Thursday for training.

giggawatt
02-14-2013, 02:45 PM
Yes, but it's closed Monday-Thursday for training.

Well played.

VFFTSGT
02-15-2013, 01:49 AM
Superintendent tells me today that I'll have to PT test again before I retire in June (PT test current as of December). I start PTDY on 25 June. Super said that the Commander doesn't want me to show up as noncurrent. I send a copy of the AFI stating that the Commander "will" exempt members who will be on PTDY/Terminal in conjunction with retirement. The Super comes back and says that the Chief said that since my PT test date was December 12th, my 6 month mark is June 12th, and after that I'm "noncurrent". I send the AFI stating that one is not noncurrent until the 1st day of the following month.

Now I'm waiting to hear more tomorrow. This stupidity is why I'd never do a day over 20. I feel an IG visit coming up. Actually, I'm looking forward to it.

Hell, I'm not even going to make it to 20...

jshiver15
02-15-2013, 07:22 AM
Superintendent tells me today that I'll have to PT test again before I retire in June (PT test current as of December). I start PTDY on 25 June. Super said that the Commander doesn't want me to show up as noncurrent. I send a copy of the AFI stating that the Commander "will" exempt members who will be on PTDY/Terminal in conjunction with retirement. The Super comes back and says that the Chief said that since my PT test date was December 12th, my 6 month mark is June 12th, and after that I'm "noncurrent". I send the AFI stating that one is not noncurrent until the 1st day of the following month.

Now I'm waiting to hear more tomorrow. This stupidity is why I'd never do a day over 20. I feel an IG visit coming up. Actually, I'm looking forward to it.

It amazes me that despite how balls deep commanders are into PT, they don't know the regs.

sandsjames
02-15-2013, 01:29 PM
It amazes me that despite how balls deep commanders are into PT, they don't know the regs.

Found out yesterday that my boss showed the regs to my superintendent and Chief and they agree that I don't have to test. They took it to the Commander and he said "I know what the reg says, but he's still going to test".

I have been advised to wait and see, which I will do. I'm guessing that if I don't bring it up anymore my retirement will come and go and he won't even realize it happened. I'll schedule the test for the end of June, but will be retired before that.

I am, however, documenting everything. I've asked for, and received, emails from my flight leadership stating what they've said and done. I've documented the dates of my PTDY/Terminal papers that have already been signed by the CC. His only recourse is to cancel my PTDY (as he isn't required to give this to me). If this happens, I will be visiting the IG as, to me, cancelling the PTDY would be clear retribution.

Hopefully it comes and goes without anything else being said. We'll just have to see.

CrustySMSgt
02-15-2013, 01:36 PM
Found out yesterday that my boss showed the regs to my superintendent and Chief and they agree that I don't have to test. They took it to the Commander and he said "I know what the reg says, but he's still going to test".

I have been advised to wait and see, which I will do. I'm guessing that if I don't bring it up anymore my retirement will come and go and he won't even realize it happened. I'll schedule the test for the end of June, but will be retired before that.

I am, however, documenting everything. I've asked for, and received, emails from my flight leadership stating what they've said and done. I've documented the dates of my PTDY/Terminal papers that have already been signed by the CC. His only recourse is to cancel my PTDY (as he isn't required to give this to me). If this happens, I will be visiting the IG as, to me, cancelling the PTDY would be clear retribution.

Hopefully it comes and goes without anything else being said. We'll just have to see.

Maybe there is an alternate definition of WILL that they only teach officers?

sandsjames
02-15-2013, 01:54 PM
Maybe there is an alternate definition of WILL that they only teach officers?

There must be. And what I'm kind of disappointed is that the Chief and my flight CC (Captain) have not told the CC that he doesn't have a choice in this. I'd like to think that they'd push it a little more. All they've said is that they've pointed it out to him and he still has the same intent. This is where they should be earning their money (especially the Chief).

giggawatt
02-15-2013, 01:58 PM
I know what the reg says but I'm an FGO and will disobey an instruction with which compliance is mandatory.

Maybe that's a perk of being an FGO.

sandsjames
02-15-2013, 02:10 PM
I know what the reg says but I'm an FGO and will disobey an instruction with which compliance is mandatory.

Maybe that's a perk of being an FGO.

Must be. I just don't think he expects any pushback as most people just go along with it. He is exactly the reason the AFI was change to take any ambiguity away.

What sucks is he seemed like a pretty good guy. He's approachable, can have a normal conversation, one of those Commander's people like. Guess it's a facade.

jshiver15
02-15-2013, 03:23 PM
I cringe whenever someone says "a commander has the authority to enforce stricter standards than the regs". So, basically, by that logic, an O5 or O6 has unlimited power? What's the point in even having AFI's if one guy can enforce whatever the fuck he wants?

imported_chipotleboy
02-15-2013, 07:36 PM
I cringe whenever someone says "a commander has the authority to enforce stricter standards than the regs". So, basically, by that logic, an O5 or O6 has unlimited power? What's the point in even having AFI's if one guy can enforce whatever the fuck he wants?

A commander can impose stricter standards if they are based on military necessity. One example, and admittedly this is in a different service (Army), my grad school classmate was an Army infantry company commander and imposed tougher physical fitness requirements for his infantry company than the baseline Army standard. This is entirely within the scope of military necessity. If the commander of an Air Force unit wanted to impose higher strength standards for firefighters or maintainers based on occupational need, it would be the prerogative of the commander to do so.

However, the OPs situation isn't a case of military necessity considering he is leaving the unit before his currency expires.

I like the idea of scheduling the test near the end of the month, outprocessing, and going on a long vacation. Or just fail the test and foul up numbnuts PT statistics

CrustySMSgt
02-16-2013, 04:43 AM
A commander can impose stricter standards if they are based on military necessity. One example, and admittedly this is in a different service (Army), my grad school classmate was an Army infantry company commander and imposed tougher physical fitness requirements for his infantry company than the baseline Army standard. This is entirely within the scope of military necessity. If the commander of an Air Force unit wanted to impose higher strength standards for firefighters or maintainers based on occupational need, it would be the prerogative of the commander to do so.

However, the OPs situation isn't a case of military necessity considering he is leaving the unit before his currency expires.

I like the idea of scheduling the test near the end of the month, outprocessing, and going on a long vacation. Or just fail the test and foul up numbnuts PT statistics

Good examples of situations where being more restrictive makes sense; however, there is no such applicability here. The instruction gives a very clear order. The intent of this order is highlighted by underlining the action to be taken, "WILL". There are plenty of "shoulds", "mays", recommendeds"... which indicate there are options available. In this case there is no alternative but to comply with this specific order, to exempt the member.

OtisRNeedleman
02-16-2013, 06:08 AM
Good examples of situations where being more restrictive makes sense; however, there is no such applicability here. The instruction gives a very clear order. The intent of this order is highlighted by underlining the action to be taken, "WILL". There are plenty of "shoulds", "mays", recommendeds"... which indicate there are options available. In this case there is no alternative but to comply with this specific order, to exempt the member. And if you REALLY want compliance, don't use "will". Use "shall". In my acquisition management days, learned that any "shall" in a contract was enforceable. If the contractor didn't comply with a "shall", they were liable for liquidated damages.

Uncle-Sugar
02-16-2013, 07:15 AM
LMAO! I had the same issue when I retired. So, I showed up for the pt test. Did 5 pushups, 5 sit-ups, 1 lap around the track, and called it a day. CC called me in to his office and asked me what the deal was. I tactfully informed him that not everyone bleeds blue and that there was a reason why I put my p/w in to begin with. I only did it so that they would get dinged on their slides. I'ver never even come close to failing my whole career, however, I could not resist sticking it to them for a change...

technomage1
02-16-2013, 11:22 AM
LMAO! I had the same issue when I retired. So, I showed up for the pt test. Did 5 pushups, 5 sit-ups, 1 lap around the track, and called it a day. CC called me in to his office and asked me what the deal was. I tactfully informed him that not everyone bleeds blue and that there was a reason why I put my p/w in to begin with. I only did it so that they would get dinged on their slides. I'ver never even come close to failing my whole career, however, I could not resist sticking it to them for a change...

Well, the AFI changed since then to specifically exempt members in this category. So it shouldn't be an issue.

Bonus points if he can scream "CRAMP!", fall to the ground, and roll around a few times if they make him test.

sandsjames
02-19-2013, 02:25 PM
Well, the AFI changed since then to specifically exempt members in this category. So it shouldn't be an issue.

Bonus points if he can scream "CRAMP!", fall to the ground, and roll around a few times if they make him test.

Thanks for the idea. This is going into my notebook.

technomage1
02-19-2013, 03:04 PM
Thanks for the idea. This is going into my notebook.

Happy to help. I actually did get a nasty foot cramp while running my last off base race. I didn't put on the production I described but boy I wanted to. I had to stop and walk for a bit until it eased.

sandsjames
02-19-2013, 03:15 PM
Happy to help. I actually did get a nasty foot cramp while running my last off base race. I didn't put on the production I described but boy I wanted to. I had to stop and walk for a bit until it eased.

I wonder what they'd say if I run the opposite direction of everyone else. Technically, in the instructions they give, it doesn't say I can't. All I have to do is stay on the track.

imported_CLSE
02-19-2013, 05:25 PM
There must be. And what I'm kind of disappointed is that the Chief and my flight CC (Captain) have not told the CC that he doesn't have a choice in this. I'd like to think that they'd push it a little more. All they've said is that they've pointed it out to him and he still has the same intent. This is where they should be earning their money (especially the Chief).

When I was having issues with my commander at my last base, the wing first sergeant spoke with my XO and advised him that my commander did not have the option to extend me if I was passing my PT test, he either had to approve my re-enlistment or deny it.

The result of that was my commander accusing me of going behind his back by talking to the first sergeant.

It took the Reserve Personnel Center and the ADC and IMA First Sergeant at AF Reserve Command to finally convince him that he had no choice in the matter.

So, yes, apparently, commanders seem to have been given the impression that their wide discretion includes whatever the they want to do, regardless of what the regs say.

technomage1
02-19-2013, 06:12 PM
I wonder what they'd say if I run the opposite direction of everyone else. Technically, in the instructions they give, it doesn't say I can't. All I have to do is stay on the track.


LOL. Hey, why not do both? Have fun with it. Just don't interfere with people who are legitimately trying to pass the test.

imported_chipotleboy
02-19-2013, 07:53 PM
I wonder what they'd say if I run the opposite direction of everyone else. Technically, in the instructions they give, it doesn't say I can't. All I have to do is stay on the track.

You'd have to start on the opposite side of the start line from everybody else to avoid a foot fault. When they see you do that, they'll be on to you.

Personally, I think you should clutch your chest, look up at the sky, and yell "Elizabeth, this is the big one! I'm coming to join you darling!"

sandsjames
02-19-2013, 08:30 PM
You'd have to start on the opposite side of the start line from everybody else to avoid a foot fault. When they see you do that, they'll be on to you.

Personally, I think you should clutch your chest, look up at the sky, and yell "Elizabeth, this is the big one! I'm coming to join you darling!"

Ok, so here's how it goes. First, I'll have a huge breakfast (and drink 2 full glasses of milk, about 20 minutes before the test). Then, I'll start with everyone else. When they start, I will take a step across the line, then turn and SPRINT as hard as I can for as long as I can. At that point, I will vomit, fall down yelling "CRAMP!!", then clutch my chest and go all Fred Sanford. I can't think of a better way to go out than that. If I do this, I will have someone video it, and I will post it.

CrustySMSgt
02-20-2013, 05:56 AM
I wonder what they'd say if I run the opposite direction of everyone else. Technically, in the instructions they give, it doesn't say I can't. All I have to do is stay on the track.

I'd say bonus if you slalom those coming in the opposite direction, but then you'd be messing with everyone else's test.


Ok, so here's how it goes. First, I'll have a huge breakfast (and drink 2 full glasses of milk, about 20 minutes before the test). Then, I'll start with everyone else. When they start, I will take a step across the line, then turn and SPRINT as hard as I can for as long as I can. At that point, I will vomit, fall down yelling "CRAMP!!", then clutch my chest and go all Fred Sanford. I can't think of a better way to go out than that. If I do this, I will have someone video it, and I will post it.

Milk, yogurt, and maybe some saurkraut or something else with a pungent odor that will carry. I'll send you $10 for each sympathetic vomiter you "inspire"... if it isn't on video, it didn't happen!

grimreaper
02-20-2013, 05:59 AM
Milk was a bad choice!


http://youtu.be/2FM3Em7FIOc

wxjumper
03-09-2013, 10:13 PM
Thanks AF Times for the email you sent today that there just has been a "reply" in this thread.

sandsjames
03-09-2013, 10:49 PM
Thanks AF Times for the email you sent today that there just has been a "reply" in this thread.

LOL...yeah, they're on the ball.

RobotChicken
03-10-2013, 01:43 AM
Ok, so here's how it goes. First, I'll have a huge breakfast (and drink 2 full glasses of milk, about 20 minutes before the test). Then, I'll start with everyone else. When they start, I will take a step across the line, then turn and SPRINT as hard as I can for as long as I can. At that point, I will vomit, fall down yelling "CRAMP!!", then clutch my chest and go all Fred Sanford. I can't think of a better way to go out than that. If I do this, I will have someone video it, and I will post it.
:usa2 My Favorite movie..'The Great Santini..' '79' Robert Duvall; Gets to the heart of military brats growing up when their REAL WARRIOR fathers were at war!:love Opening scene when the 'chunky clam chowder' nails everyone!!! :puke The stuck up officers running for cover like the squirrels they are a HOOT!! Yea! GO MARINE AIR!! (maybe a page out of a 'Old's playbook'...Dealing with RINGKNOCKERS-101) Somethings NEVER change....Just my 'opinion,do not try at home...OR work for goodness saki, :lol:clock

sandsjames
03-10-2013, 11:32 AM
Fyi, if you retire for good, be prepared for people asking
Constantly if you got a job yet...

I'm already tired of people asking me what I've got lined up. I keep telling them I have retirement lined up. They can't comprehend.

Vrake
03-10-2013, 12:13 PM
:usa2 My Favorite movie..'The Great Santini..' '79' Robert Duvall; Gets to the heart of military brats growing up when their REAL WARRIOR fathers were at war!:love Opening scene when the 'chunky clam chowder' nails everyone!!! :puke The stuck up officers running for cover like the squirrels they are a HOOT!! Yea! GO MARINE AIR!! (maybe a page out of a 'Old's playbook'...Dealing with RINGKNOCKERS-101) Somethings NEVER change....Just my 'opinion,do not try at home...OR work for goodness saki, :lol:clock


RC I am sure you have but read the book as well, try it if you have not. The Lords of Discipline is my favorite among his works. I have yet to see any of the movies I just enjoy the books.

BTW a few less emoticons will make your posts read smoother and leave less of us trying to figure out what you mean not typed... No offense but help the stupid like myself...

FLAPS
03-10-2013, 12:43 PM
I'm already tired of people asking me what I've got lined up. I keep telling them I have retirement lined up. They can't comprehend.

I get that too, as if they're so concerned about how I'll make ends meet. O-4 ret pay, no kids, no debt, working wife. I think we'll survive.

imported_DannyJ
03-10-2013, 01:13 PM
I'm already tired of people asking me what I've got lined up. I keep telling them I have retirement lined up. They can't comprehend.

Have to remember, most folk in the military don't save like they should, so it's hard for them to get the idea of being frugal when they retire. Most of them don't live within their means while they are in. A really good illustration of this is that 22 year old loadmaster that just reenlisted and went out and bought a brand new corvette cash. Could have bought a brand new sedan for 40k less and still had a new car. That 40k could have EASILY turned into 230k in 30 years assuming dude was smart enough to invest properly. I can't even fathom how much insurance would be for a corvette for a 22 year old male.

I'm saving like a motha-f***er (cause I'll never get an SRB)! Still living off A1C pay (every raise has gone straight into TSP) so when it comes time for retirement, I'm prepared; cause there's NO way I'm doing an hour over 20, not for no one. Shoot, I'm already at 80% combined disability. Put that on top of that nice retirement check and TSP, no way in hell I'd get another job. Might just get a part time job at a hardware store just to pass the time, but f*** jobbin'~!

sandsjames
03-10-2013, 01:22 PM
Have to remember, most folk in the military don't save like they should, so it's hard for them to get the idea of being frugal when they retire. Most of them don't live within their means while they are in. A really good illustration of this is that 22 year old loadmaster that just reenlisted and went out and bought a brand new corvette cash. Could have bought a brand new sedan for 40k less and still had a new car. That 40k could have EASILY turned into 230k in 30 years assuming dude was smart enough to invest properly. I can't even fathom how much insurance would be for a corvette for a 22 year old male.

I'm saving like a motha-f***er (cause I'll never get an SRB)! Still living off A1C pay (every raise has gone straight into TSP) so when it comes time for retirement, I'm prepared; cause there's NO way I'm doing an hour over 20, not for no one. Shoot, I'm already at 80% combined disability. Put that on top of that nice retirement check and TSP, no way in hell I'd get another job. Might just get a part time job at a hardware store just to pass the time, but f*** jobbin'~!

Sounds like a good plan. I have actually thought about that. A hardware store would be fun, or maybe Best Buy or something. When I get bored, I may look into that sort of thing. Plus, since I plan on getting into some serious woodworking during retirement, the employee discount could be pretty handy. If/when I do decide to get that job, I hope my boss is some 22 year old kid. You know the guy. The one that is the night manager at the fast food place in every comedy movie ever made.

Luvnlife
04-11-2013, 07:03 PM
Have to remember, most folk in the military don't save like they should, so it's hard for them to get the idea of being frugal when they retire. Most of them don't live within their means while they are in. A really good illustration of this is that 22 year old loadmaster that just reenlisted and went out and bought a brand new corvette cash. Could have bought a brand new sedan for 40k less and still had a new car. That 40k could have EASILY turned into 230k in 30 years assuming dude was smart enough to invest properly. I can't even fathom how much insurance would be for a corvette for a 22 year old male.

I'm saving like a motha-f***er (cause I'll never get an SRB)! Still living off A1C pay (every raise has gone straight into TSP) so when it comes time for retirement, I'm prepared; cause there's NO way I'm doing an hour over 20, not for no one. Shoot, I'm already at 80% combined disability. Put that on top of that nice retirement check and TSP, no way in hell I'd get another job. Might just get a part time job at a hardware store just to pass the time, but f*** jobbin'~!
Amen and Amen!

Tak
04-11-2013, 08:15 PM
Never ever, ever, under any circumstances do a day over 20!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OtisRNeedleman
04-12-2013, 04:41 AM
And if you don't need to work don't waste the time. Too many neat things to do in life besides work, and very few civilian jobs are worth doing anyway.

BENDER56
04-12-2013, 06:41 PM
I know I've said this before (perhaps on this thread -- I'm too lazy to look) but there's no way I could be getting by now without a job if I hadn't maxed out my retired pay by staying until I hit HYT at 26 years. If I had punched out at 20 I don't think I'd be making enough to do it.

'Course, I don't think the AF was as jacked up during those extra six years from '04 to '10 as it is today. So who knows, if I were hitting 20 years today I might just say, "I've had enough'" and get out, too.

jondstewart
04-15-2013, 07:13 PM
I wish I had the luxury you all did. At the time I retired 3 years ago, I had a stay at home wife, a 16 year old, twin 2 year olds, and a $2000 a month mortgage (I live in Alaska). I made long term plans, but all of a sudden some asswipe got a wild hair up his ass and decided to lower the high year tenure for TSgt's and MSgt's by 2 years. So I retired. There is always a way for civilian jobs afterwards, especially if you live in Alaska, which is a haven for the working man in those remote camps.

WillsPowers
04-16-2013, 12:32 AM
Before you march into the IG's Office, make sure you research all AFI's as they pertain to your situation. Write up your complaint citing the AFI's, witnesses, photos, reports, documents etc and attach them with your complaint and report. Make the IG sign for receipt and have a proof of service attached. Don't let them weasel out of it on a technicality. The IG system is geared to protect O's and screw E's so make it hell for them. Now go get them!

Banned
04-16-2013, 03:47 AM
I know a former Marine Guard guy who's going on 25 years. When he's asked when he's planning to get out, he says "When I stop having fun."

FLAPS
04-16-2013, 10:10 AM
The IG system is geared to protect O's and screw E's so make it hell for them.

No, they just screw the type of people who think it's ok to run over their neighbors.

JD2780
04-16-2013, 11:00 AM
Before you march into the IG's Office, make sure you research all AFI's as they pertain to your situation. Write up your complaint citing the AFI's, witnesses, photos, reports, documents etc and attach them with your complaint and report. Make the IG sign for receipt and have a proof of service attached. Don't let them weasel out of it on a technicality. The IG system is geared to protect O's and screw E's so make it hell for them. Now go get them!

Nothing in your statement supports our last sentence. Its called having supporting documents. Even civilian cops, i know you hate them, would as you to have those documents. I've seen the IG system help enlisted many times. I think you didnt have all your info squared away,and you ran away crying. So you took it out on the.......renters.

Pullinteeth
04-16-2013, 01:56 PM
I know a former Marine Guard guy who's going on 25 years. When he's asked when he's planning to get out, he says "When I stop having fun."

No you don't. The Navy doesn't have a Guard component. Only the Air Force and the Army have Guard components.

JD2780
04-16-2013, 01:57 PM
No you don't. The Navy doesn't have a Guard component. Only the Air Force and the Army have Guard components.

Marine Embassy Guard perhaps. Sorry, I cant tell if your sarcasm is activated this morning.

SomeRandomGuy
04-16-2013, 02:04 PM
No you don't. The Navy doesn't have a Guard component. Only the Air Force and the Army have Guard components.

Maybe that is why he is having so much fun. The person he knows is the only person in the Navy Guard. He takes orders from no one.

Banned
04-16-2013, 02:10 PM
No you don't. The Navy doesn't have a Guard component. Only the Air Force and the Army have Guard components.

Sorry, I didn't write that clearly. "Former Marine currently in the Guard.

Army National Guard takes in Marines.

SomeRandomGuy
04-16-2013, 02:17 PM
Sorry, I didn't write that clearly. "Former Marine currently in the Guard.

Army National Guard takes in Marines.

If I am not mistaken the Army Guard (and Active Army) will take anyone with a RE (re-enlistment eligibility) code of 1,2, or 3 (with waiver in some cases). The only prior they will nto take is someone with an RE code that starts with 4. If you have an RE code that starts with 4 it means you were either court martialed or seperated due to an injury which would prevent future service. I think even the AF Reserve and Navy Reserve will take all other prior service as long as they have RE of 1,2 or 3 but I am not positive on that.

Pullinteeth
04-16-2013, 03:19 PM
Army National Guard takes in Marines.

I love that...sounds like Marines are criminals and the ARNG is a homeless shelter....


If I am not mistaken the Army Guard (and Active Army) will take anyone with a RE (re-enlistment eligibility) code of 1,2, or 3 (with waiver in some cases). The only prior they will nto take is someone with an RE code that starts with 4. If you have an RE code that starts with 4 it means you were either court martialed or seperated due to an injury which would prevent future service. I think even the AF Reserve and Navy Reserve will take all other prior service as long as they have RE of 1,2 or 3 but I am not positive on that.

Not exactly....1s are good, 3s are usually good, 2s are almost always bad, 4s are almost always bad, 5s and 6s can be good or bad....

JD2780
04-16-2013, 05:19 PM
I love that...sounds like Marines are criminals and the ARNG is a homeless shelter....



Not exactly....1s are good, 3s are usually good, 2s are almost always bad, 4s are almost always bad, 5s and 6s can be good or bad....

Yea I've got 4G and it isn't good. "No skill level commensurate with grade". That's what I get for doing the right thing per the AFI.

Pullinteeth
04-16-2013, 05:30 PM
Yea I've got 4G and it isn't good. "No skill level commensurate with grade". That's what I get for doing the right thing per the AFI.

I think they gave you the wrong code...you were what, a SSgt? You had a 1C451? 1C471? Just because you were DQ'd from your AFSC didn't mean you didn't still hold the AFSC/skill level....

SomeRandomGuy
04-16-2013, 05:39 PM
I think they gave you the wrong code...you were what, a SSgt? You had a 1C451? 1C471? Just because you were DQ'd from your AFSC didn't mean you didn't still hold the AFSC/skill level....

I would think he should have gotten 4K

RE-4K- Medically disqualified for continued svc; or pending evaluation by MEB/PEB

JD2780
04-16-2013, 05:43 PM
I think they gave you the wrong code...you were what, a SSgt? You had a 1C451? 1C471? Just because you were DQ'd from your AFSC didn't mean you didn't still hold the AFSC/skill level....

Is because we went through the channels of changing my AFSC to a 9A3. Also with that I wasn't given any separation pay, my CC and Sq Sup didnt know anything about this whole process. I took my terminal leave, and my GI bill. Now I'm waiting on the va, which will probably the most outrageous things ever.

Banned
04-16-2013, 05:46 PM
I love that...sounds like Marines are criminals and the ARNG is a homeless shelter....


They call it the "graveyard of Marines" for a reason.

JD2780
04-16-2013, 05:58 PM
Per the dd214 it says 1C451 10 yrs 1 month, and a code of 4G

JD2780
04-16-2013, 06:02 PM
It won't let me edit so more to the story. I was a SSgt 10 yrs most likely a number for Tsgt. 1C451. Not sure how I could be a 4G

JD2780
04-16-2013, 06:04 PM
Submitted early separation paper work because there my cross training stuff kept getting denied. N

Pullinteeth
04-16-2013, 06:29 PM
Is because we went through the channels of changing my AFSC to a 9A3. Also with that I wasn't given any separation pay, my CC and Sq Sup didnt know anything about this whole process. I took my terminal leave, and my GI bill. Now I'm waiting on the va, which will probably the most outrageous things ever.

Yes but 9A300 doesn't have skill levels so the Re code 4G would still be wrong... To get a 4G as a SSgt, you would have to not have a 5-level AND have a DAFSC that HAS skill levels.... Neither one applies to you...

That would be like telling someone has a 9J000 AFSC that they have to get out because they don't hold a skill level commensurate with their grade....just doesn't happen..


Submitted early separation paper work because there my cross training stuff kept getting denied. N

THAT is why you didn't get separation pay. If you voluntarily separated, unless authorized by a specific Force Shaping provision, you wouldn't be authorized separation pay.

FYI, you can submit to the AF BCMR to get your RE-Code fixed....it isn't that hard either...just takes forever.

http://www.afpc.af.mil/afveteraninformation/airforceboardforcorrectionofmilitaryrecords/index.asp

Just ignore the "rules" they have here and follow the instructions.

JD2780
04-16-2013, 06:31 PM
Yes but 9A300 doesn't have skill levels so the Re code 4G would still be wrong... To get a 4G as a SSgt, you would have to not have a 5-level AND have a DAFSC that HAS skill levels.... Neither one applies to you...

Hmmm so I got hosed by the good folks at Randolph. Surprise.

imported_SergeantJack
04-17-2013, 07:38 PM
Nope. Not getting one. I've already refused my last EPR, plus I had a previous PT failure. The dec was never on the table.

I'm not sure if you even care about it, but I can advise you right now not to settle for that. In the three years I've been stationed here, I've had three failures on the fitness program, and the group commander attempted to demote me twice. He also denied me reenlistment, which is why I ended up retiring this year (and thank God that happened, or I'd still be facing years of active duty).

I just got my MSM yesterday. Granted, I have a brand-new commander, but my dismal EPRs went into that package and the CC still readily signed it. It's your final hurrah; the Air Force doesn't lose anything by giving you a medal on the way out the door. It's not like you're competing for promotion anyways.

Go to your chief and tell him flatly that you want a medal. That's my advice. If he says no, then you haven't lost anything. You can still get your supervisor to submit one, and even if the chief recommends disapproval, the commander could override him.

Tak
04-17-2013, 07:51 PM
Fyi, the medal is for sale and can be bought. No need to be awarded one.

RetC141BFCC
04-19-2013, 04:47 PM
Fyi, the medal is for sale and can be bought. No need to be awarded one.

Sorry I don't feel that way. My medals are in a box in the garage but someday I might take them out and show the grandkids. I loved being in the AF maybe it was the job. Being a maintenance dude with MAC and then AMC got to see the world. Sure there were a few shit holes like Somalia, Haiti, Gulf and Bosnia but have you ever been TDY to Greece or Spain or seen the great pyramids of Egypt. I am glad I retired before all this PT sh*t
Ps. I also have been maced in a Hooker House in Germany but that’s another story

Tak
04-19-2013, 04:52 PM
Sorry I don't feel that way. My medals are in a box in the garage but someday I might take them out and show the grandkids. I loved being in the AF maybe it was the job. Being a maintenance dude with MAC and then AMC got to see the world. Sure there were a few shit holes like Somalia, Haiti, Gulf and Bosnia but have you ever been TDY to Greece or Spain or seen the great pyramids of Egypt. I am glad I retired before all this PT sh*t
Ps. I also have been maced in a Hooker House in Germany but that’s another story
Just factually stating they can be purchased, now about the hooker...

JD2780
04-19-2013, 06:29 PM
Sorry I don't feel that way. My medals are in a box in the garage but someday I might take them out and show the grandkids. I loved being in the AF maybe it was the job. Being a maintenance dude with MAC and then AMC got to see the world. Sure there were a few shit holes like Somalia, Haiti, Gulf and Bosnia but have you ever been TDY to Greece or Spain or seen the great pyramids of Egypt. I am glad I retired before all this PT sh*t
Ps. I also have been maced in a Hooker House in Germany but that’s another story

As TACP we only went to shitty places to break people's shit and blow them up. Then worse than that was Ft Polk and ft Irwin. It was a job. A fun one but just a job.

Rainmaker
04-19-2013, 08:08 PM
Sorry I don't feel that way. My medals are in a box in the garage but someday I might take them out and show the grandkids. I loved being in the AF maybe it was the job. Being a maintenance dude with MAC and then AMC got to see the world. Sure there were a few shit holes like Somalia, Haiti, Gulf and Bosnia but have you ever been TDY to Greece or Spain or seen the great pyramids of Egypt. I am glad I retired before all this PT sh*t
Ps. I also have been maced in a Hooker House in Germany but that’s another story

Rainmaker did layover at Cairo West once, when the 141 he was pax on hard broke. Rainmaker never got to see the Great Pyramids. But, He did get to catch Dysentery and got to spend 48 hours laying on a cot in a GP medium with no heat shitting hisself till he wanted to die.

RetC141BFCC
04-20-2013, 12:32 PM
Just factually stating they can be purchased, now about the hooker...



Tak just for your information unlike Dragnet all names in this story are changed to protect the guilty. I deployed to Jordon for an exercise. A Real sh*t hole. I am talking open bay barracks squat outside to take a dump you know the kind of place I am talking about. Steve got a Dear John letter. So being the outstanding NCO I was at the time and worrying about my fellow NCO I decided to improve his morale. On the way home we had a 24 hour delay in Frankfurt Germany. We went downtown to the apartment complexes were there ladies of the night did there trade. You must remember at this time we had one or two or 7 alcoholic drinks. I told to Steve pick out the lady of his choosing. While he did that I did a little window shopping. You have to remember in Germany all the doors were open in the complex so I see this woman who looked like she could be in penthouse. She also had handcuffs hanging on the wall. My buddy Steve comes out and I said hey Steve you fuc*ked up check out this bi*ch she has handcuffs on the wall. Well the lady did not speak English all she heard was Bit*h and maced me. Let me tell you that will drop you. My buddies got me out of there wash my face out and threw me in a cab back to the hotel. Well the next morning when I went to take a shower the rest of the mace ran down into my eyes. So Tak that’s the story of the Hooker In Germany.

Tak
04-20-2013, 12:52 PM
Tak just for your information unlike Dragnet all names in this story are changed to protect the guilty. I deployed to Jordon for an exercise. A Real sh*t hole. I am talking open bay barracks squat outside to take a dump you know the kind of place I am talking about. Steve got a Dear John letter. So being the outstanding NCO I was at the time and worrying about my fellow NCO I decided to improve his morale. On the way home we had a 24 hour delay in Frankfurt Germany. We went downtown to the apartment complexes were there ladies of the night did there trade. You must remember at this time we had one or two or 7 alcoholic drinks. I told to Steve pick out the lady of his choosing. While he did that I did a little window shopping. You have to remember in Germany all the doors were open in the complex so I see this woman who looked like she could be in penthouse. She also had handcuffs hanging on the wall. My buddy Steve comes out and I said hey Steve you fuc*ked up check out this bi*ch she has handcuffs on the wall. Well the lady did not speak English all she heard was Bit*h and maced me. Let me tell you that will drop you. My buddies got me out of there wash my face out and threw me in a cab back to the hotel. Well the next morning when I went to take a shower the rest of the mace ran down into my eyes. So Tak that’s the story of the Hooker In Germany.

Best story on here in a long time. I was in Germany 82-85,
But no whore bytches as I was 9 yrs old. Cheers mate.

RetC141BFCC
04-20-2013, 01:13 PM
Rainmaker did layover at Cairo West once, when the 141 he was pax on hard broke. Rainmaker never got to see the Great Pyramids. But, He did get to catch Dysentery and got to spend 48 hours laying on a cot in a GP medium with no heat shitting hisself till he wanted to die.



Rainmaker
Thanks for the laugh this morning. I did spend about 70 days at Cairo West during Restore Hope. We worked at Cairo West but lived downtown Cairo. Our Hotel was across from the Great Pyramids, They had us drive to work in civilian clothes then change clothes at the base. You story reminds me of my first trip to Hondo. The AF brought all sorts of bottle water everything we needed but then they bought the ice from downtown. I shit my brains out for about two days also. Food poisoning really bites the big one.

Rainmaker
04-20-2013, 03:51 PM
Tak just for your information unlike Dragnet all names in this story are changed to protect the guilty. I deployed to Jordon for an exercise. A Real sh*t hole. I am talking open bay barracks squat outside to take a dump you know the kind of place I am talking about. Steve got a Dear John letter. So being the outstanding NCO I was at the time and worrying about my fellow NCO I decided to improve his morale. On the way home we had a 24 hour delay in Frankfurt Germany. We went downtown to the apartment complexes were there ladies of the night did there trade. You must remember at this time we had one or two or 7 alcoholic drinks. I told to Steve pick out the lady of his choosing. While he did that I did a little window shopping. You have to remember in Germany all the doors were open in the complex so I see this woman who looked like she could be in penthouse. She also had handcuffs hanging on the wall. My buddy Steve comes out and I said hey Steve you fuc*ked up check out this bi*ch she has handcuffs on the wall. Well the lady did not speak English all she heard was Bit*h and maced me. Let me tell you that will drop you. My buddies got me out of there wash my face out and threw me in a cab back to the hotel. Well the next morning when I went to take a shower the rest of the mace ran down into my eyes. So Tak that’s the story of the Hooker In Germany.

That story has everything! Rainmaker's hazy recollection of his 2 years at Rhein-Main is pretty similar. Beers at the Rocket Club, Apple-Korn at the Sachsenhausen, Workin gals on the North end and when you hit the showers the next morning sometimes shit was burning but you just Wash, Rinse and Repeat.

Deploy Me Please
04-21-2013, 12:35 AM
I gave one of my airmen some deutschmarks for a nice bar lady in Germany back in the day. I should have put that in my EPR. His morale certainly improved for the rest of that deployment.

Mastercone
09-24-2013, 01:15 AM
After 20, you're working for half pay.