PDA

View Full Version : What's going on with simple MOS training?!!



FatCat40
12-23-2012, 05:11 AM
I retired a year ago and walked into a contractor job basically doing my MOS less than a month after retiring. I work with soldiers from my MOS daily. To say I'm shocked, appalled and embarrassed at the lack of basic MOS knowledge not just among the soldiers that come into my office but the NCOs (to include SENIOR NCOs as well) would be an understatement. Though I don't mind helping/guiding them, I was very surprised to find out I and my co-workers in a lot of cases have to basically TRAIN them on proper technique to complete transactions for skill level 10 requests. They come into or call my office to ask questions I never would have dreamed of during my time in, questions I would have gone to my NCOIC, S or G shop with but again, several times I've advised a customer to run a question through their higher echelon and the reply has been...."I AM the higher echelon"!! It's insane!

efmbman
12-23-2012, 02:38 PM
No one seems to place an emphasis on MOS skills anymore. When I was in Germany, I knew a 68W that was fortunate enough to have enjoyed several cushy assignments. To his credit, he used the time wisely and earned an Associates and a Bachelors degree. After 7 years TIS, he was E6. Could not lead any of his soldiers to the latrine, however. The other NCOs in the unit stepped up and made sure everyone was squared away. This lack of leadership ability was not recorded on any counseling nor on the NCOER. In the absense of a bad report, the Army will consider the report at least successful.

I have kept hearing about this NCO over the years and he has some remarkable achievements: multiple NCO of the Year wins at very senior command levels, and high APFT scores. Now, with 15 years TIS, he is E8 (or at least selected for E8). All this guy has to do is not kill anyone and through natural attrition he will be selected for Sergeant Major, probably with less that 20 years TIS. This is someone that cannot even start an IV or correctly suture an open wound. I know this is the exception and not the rule, but the fact that the system allows it to happen cheapens the system as a whole. Junior soldiers pay close attention to the abilities and performance of their seniors. I know the old saying is: respect the rank, not the person. But in today's military, the actions and abilities carry a lot more respect than the rank insignia on the person's chest.

106PADDOCK
12-26-2012, 01:48 AM
The AMEDD has always be populated and led by a good number of "Me" NCOs struting around in Hospital Whites & white shoes with the CWM or Orderly Room ,maybe the Bn S-3 shop working to impress his/her raters and CoC with his "ability" to be successful as reflected by their AS, BS degrees and good PT scores from going running with the SGM. Yeah they are out there , look at the faker at Walter Reed who sucked his way up to SGM before getting caught as the worst example of these fake NCOs.

PS found it....www.armytimes.com/.../army-crump-sentenced-to-six-months.

efmbman
12-26-2012, 11:39 PM
The AMEDD has always be populated and led by a good number of "Me" NCOs struting around in Hospital Whites & white shoes with the CWM or Orderly Room ,maybe the Bn S-3 shop working to impress his/her raters and CoC with his "ability" to be successful as reflected by their AS, BS degrees and good PT scores from going running with the SGM. Yeah they are out there , look at the faker at Walter Reed who sucked his way up to SGM before getting caught as the worst example of these fake NCOs.

I missed that story... could we be talking about the same person? Can you send me a link to that, please?

106PADDOCK
12-27-2012, 05:32 PM
I missed that story... could we be talking about the same person? Can you send me a link to that, please?


I don't have those kind of computer skills but if you Google Walter Reed Sergeant Major court martial you may find the story. He wore a sh*t load of fake awards & badges fot reduced to SSG and retied after 60 days in jail about a year ago.They should have court martialed a bunch more of NCOs over the shi*ty living conditions of Soldiers in the Medical Hold Company a few years back that got the CG and Sec Army relieved!

I found it ..........www.armytimes.com/.../army-crump-sentenced-to-six-months.

efmbman
12-28-2012, 01:09 AM
I don't have those kind of computer skills but if you Google Walter Reed Sergeant Major court martial you may find the story. He wore a sh*t load of fake awards & badges fot reduced to SSG and retied after 60 days in jail about a year ago.They should have court martialed a bunch more of NCOs over the shi*ty living conditions of Soldiers in the Medical Hold Company a few years back that got the CG and Sec Army relieved!

I found it ..........www.armytimes.com/.../army-crump-sentenced-to-six-months.

Thanks for the link. This was not the same guy I was referring too, but I know that guy nevertheless. Such a shame.

Rizzo77
12-28-2012, 02:43 AM
What's going on with MOS training? It's been going on since I've been in the Army. The specialty suffers because the mindless drones in the field have no clue.

To wit: I am an outstanding cunning linguist. Rather than concentrating on creating proficient linguists, the Army imposes the AIT post Basic Training rules on its students. Don't focus on language learning (although that is our greatest shortcoming), focus on the Army bullshit.

A student at DLI should become a proficient linguist; the student should not have to worry about "combat proficiency" (especially when they do that shit on Saturday; linguists need a day off).

Advanced Individual Training (AIT) should be focused on developing a superior Soldier in his/her particular MOS that can perform. Well, cool. I get a 35N that can clear a room, but one that can't tell me which bad guy was transmitting on his handset.

Obviously, combat skills are critical (been there, done that); when the technical skills are ignored, though, the Army as a whole suffers.

106PADDOCK
12-30-2012, 05:59 AM
[QUOTE=Rizzo77;598304]What's going on with MOS training? It's been going on since I've been in the Army. The specialty suffers because the mindless drones in the field have no clue.

To wit: I am an outstanding cunning linguist. Rather than concentrating on creating proficient linguists, the Army imposes the AIT post Basic Training rules on its students. Don't focus on language learning (although that is our greatest shortcoming), focus on the Army bullshit.

A student at DLI should become a proficient linguist; the student should not have to worry about "combat proficiency" (especially when they do that shit on Saturday; linguists need a day off).

Advanced Individual Training (AIT) should be focused on developing a superior Soldier in his/her particular MOS that can perform. Well, cool. I get a 35N that can clear a room, but one that can't tell me which bad guy was transmitting on his handset.


The Army is run by the fighting guys so the technicians are held to their standards. I loved being a SP/6 but someone thought all E-6s should be Sergeants.......so I recall working in the CCU with 7 SSGs and 1 SFC, how effing good was that?

reserve
02-03-2013, 08:38 PM
Who has actually learned their MOS at AIT graduation? Who knew nothing about their MOS at graduation, but a whole lot about Army BS? I am the later with two signal MOSs.

Banned
02-13-2013, 04:18 AM
Douche hammers cover for other douche hammers. The good people who actually know how to do the job usually don't want to go through the effort of burning the douche hammer. But ironically, the douche hammers themselves will often gladly burn a good person for little or no reason.

My gripe for the day.

Jh762
02-15-2013, 09:58 PM
I didn't think 68W Combat Medic School was beneficial at all. We had to get an EMT certification, which was nice to have I guess, but was a requirement to graduate. Civilian EMT procedures and Combat Medic procedures are infinitely different and contradictory. Toward the end, we still had guys who were terrified of blood and had never touched a real patient. The 8 day FTX at the end was the only halfway decent training we received in the 6 months I was at Fort Sam. I definitely learned EVERYTHING once I got to my first duty station and met my team leader.

Banned
02-17-2013, 03:31 AM
I didn't think 68W Combat Medic School was beneficial at all. We had to get an EMT certification, which was nice to have I guess, but was a requirement to graduate. Civilian EMT procedures and Combat Medic procedures are infinitely different and contradictory. Toward the end, we still had guys who were terrified of blood and had never touched a real patient. The 8 day FTX at the end was the only halfway decent training we received in the 6 months I was at Fort Sam. I definitely learned EVERYTHING once I got to my first duty station and met my team leader.

Same here. I didn't know jack and shit when I hit the fleet.

Yet when I enlisted in the Guard, reclassified, and went to a different MOS school, I came out not just proficient... but actually more proficient than many of the troops who were initial entry and had already been doing the job for one, two, or even three years.

I think it, in part, has something to do with maturity. I learned a lot more at my second school (which was far harder than my first), but was also six years older.

Psy
05-29-2013, 08:03 PM
Army IET schools only teach a vey minimum actual proficiency. Anyone who wants to get more than that needs to work on it on their own. I came out of 25C Signal school knowing more about first aid than some of the initial-entry 68W at my first unit, simply because I actually studied it in basic instead of skating. What actual signal knowledge I did have has gradually degraded, I know today perhaps 25% of my actual MOS training (the part that I use with any frequency, pun intended).

The problem is that IET cannot hope to teach you all you need to know, so they settle for a very poor compromise. They teach you the minimum you need to know in order to not kill people while you actually learn what needs doing. Anythign more than that is a waste of time and mopney, because different units have different procedures and different equipment for different missions.