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Robert F. Dorr
11-28-2012, 11:16 AM
1. Why was the Piasecki/Vertol H-21 Workhorse helicopter built with a large round hole on either side of the rear fuselage, halfway between the main landing gear and the horizontal stabilizer? What is the purpose of the hole and what is its diameter?

Banned
11-28-2012, 11:22 AM
It wasn't intentional. A jarhead accidentally put a hole through it.

The diameter of the opening is roughly the size of a knifehand.

technomage1
11-28-2012, 11:36 AM
They're personnel relief holes.

Seriously, I'm guessing they're probably not holes but black patches of paint, though as to why I have no idea. They look to be about 2' in diameter or so.

BoredUTM
11-28-2012, 11:43 AM
Easy access to the engine equipment. The hole does look about 2-2 1/2 ft in diameter.

Measure Man
11-28-2012, 02:54 PM
Trick question indeed. It wasn't built with the hole. The hole was already there and the aircraft was built around it.

71Fish
11-28-2012, 07:45 PM
It looks like they are for weight savings to allow the rear rotors to lift faster than the front rotors to keep them from hitting.

BENDER56
11-28-2012, 07:55 PM
That's where the tow hitch attaches?

MilPhD
11-28-2012, 08:24 PM
Used to mount (2) turboshafts on either side. Diameter of holes: 25 inches.

sandsjames
11-28-2012, 08:25 PM
Trick question indeed. It wasn't built with the hole. The hole was already there and the aircraft was built around it.

Nice. Great answer.

Sperry1989
11-28-2012, 11:58 PM
My answer is probably wrong, but it was an air in-take engine so I say the holes were designed for airflow.

PT GOD
11-29-2012, 12:42 AM
airflow, cooling for the transmission that overheated during initial tests and i have no idea what the diameter is but....i just ripped my shirt off and flexed my freshly oiled chest all of your girly little weak pansies.

BadBender
11-29-2012, 03:21 AM
You guys are all wrong. The holes are kind of like the ones on the back bumpers of trucks. It's where it insert the rod to lower the spare tires.

Uncle-Sugar
11-29-2012, 04:03 AM
No idea, let me ponder the question over a 12 pack and I will get back to you :thumb

imported_Joker76
11-29-2012, 05:01 AM
the frame was taken form an aircraft, its pretty obvious, so look at the aircraft it was taken from and see what was there, god you guys are awful at this.

20+Years
11-29-2012, 12:09 PM
Theoretically, if the hole in the surface subtracted 8.2362% of the overall body surface of the aircraft, that would translate to a 8.2362% chance of enemy fire passing through the airspace maintained by the aircraft without a hit. If you then take into consideration the design might actually capture a gunners attention therefore subconsciously directing their fire to said hole, the chance of a miss raises to an impressive 14.2662%.

That, or it was to be a new form of basketball involving a moving hoop.

MilPhD
11-29-2012, 12:38 PM
the frame was taken form an aircraft, its pretty obvious, so look at the aircraft it was taken from and see what was there, god you guys are awful at this.

Fittings for (2) Morton Thiokol O-rings...

imported_CLSE
11-29-2012, 02:05 PM
1. Why was the Piasecki/Vertol H-21 Workhorse helicopter built with a large round hole on either side of the rear fuselage, halfway between the main landing gear and the horizontal stabilizer? What is the purpose of the hole and what is its diameter?

Couldn't tell you the diameter without measuring one, but they're engine cooling air intakes.

Robert F. Dorr
11-29-2012, 03:30 PM
Today's trick question:

2. How many Edo XOSE-1 seaplanes were actually built and flown (not the number ordered and not including any built but not flown)?

Yesterday's trick question:

I can't remember why I called it a trick. It wasn't. I'm finishing a series of articles about the H-21 for an aviation magazine in Poland and I really wanted to know. It was a terrific surprise to see who came out of the woodwork to respond, especially since being interested in aircraft automatically disqualifies you from joining the Air Force or participating in these Forums. I got what I thought were pretty good answers from BoredUTM, 71Fish, BENDER56, MilPhD and Sperry1989; a really funny answer from MeasureMan; and maybe not quite so good answers from technoimage1 (who was miles off in his estimate) and the ultra-ubiquitous, ever-present, always vapid Joe Bonham. Answers were examined by experts at the SECRET REBEL BASE.

MilPhD may have made it up with his 25-inch figure but if he did that's what they're going to read in Poland. Because of the exactness of the figure, I'm declaring the MilPhD the winner. If MilPhD will provide me with a postal mailing address within 72 hours, I will send a prize worth $25.


Robert F. Dorr
3411 Valewood Drive
Oakton VA 22124
robert.f.dorr@cox.net
(703) 264-8950

technomage1
11-29-2012, 04:11 PM
Today's trick question:

2. How many Edo XOSE-1 seaplanes were actually built and flown (not the number ordered and not including any built but not flown)?

Yesterday's trick question:

I can't remember why I called it a trick. It wasn't. I'm finishing a series of articles about the H-21 for an aviation magazine in Poland and I really wanted to know. It was a terrific surprise to see who came out of the woodwork to respond, especially since being interested in aircraft automatically disqualifies you from joining the Air Force or participating in these Forums. I got what I thought were pretty good answers from BoredUTM, 71Fish, BENDER56, MilPhD and Sperry1989; a really funny answer from MeasureMan; and maybe not quite so good answers from technoimage1 (who was miles off in his estimate) and the ultra-ubiquitous, ever-present, always vapid Joe Bonham. Answers were examined by experts at the SECRET REBEL BASE.

MilPhD may have made it up with his 25-inch figure but if he did that's what they're going to read in Poland. Because of the exactness of the figure, I'm declaring the MilPhD the winner. If MilPhD will provide me with a postal mailing address within 72 hours, I will send a prize worth $25.


Robert F. Dorr
3411 Valewood Drive
Oakton VA 22124
robert.f.dorr@cox.net
(703) 264-8950

Ok, fair enough I had no idea what they were for. But how was I miles off in my estimate if I said they were 2 feet - which equals 24 inches - and you declared them to be 25 inches?

iReddit
11-29-2012, 04:21 PM
Today's trick question:

2. How many Edo XOSE-1 seaplanes were actually built and flown (not the number ordered and not including any built but not flown)?

Yesterday's trick question:

I can't remember why I called it a trick. It wasn't. I'm finishing a series of articles about the H-21 for an aviation magazine in Poland and I really wanted to know. It was a terrific surprise to see who came out of the woodwork to respond, especially since being interested in aircraft automatically disqualifies you from joining the Air Force or participating in these Forums. I got what I thought were pretty good answers from BoredUTM, 71Fish, BENDER56, MilPhD and Sperry1989; a really funny answer from MeasureMan; and maybe not quite so good answers from technoimage1 (who was miles off in his estimate) and the ultra-ubiquitous, ever-present, always vapid Joe Bonham. Answers were examined by experts at the SECRET REBEL BASE.

MilPhD may have made it up with his 25-inch figure but if he did that's what they're going to read in Poland. Because of the exactness of the figure, I'm declaring the MilPhD the winner. If MilPhD will provide me with a postal mailing address within 72 hours, I will send a prize worth $25.


Robert F. Dorr
3411 Valewood Drive
Oakton VA 22124
robert.f.dorr@cox.net
(703) 264-8950

Don't do it. It's a book.

Measure Man
11-29-2012, 04:25 PM
Today's trick question:

2. How many Edo XOSE-1 seaplanes were actually built and flown (not the number ordered and not including any built but not flown)?



Wikipedia says 2.

Robert F. Dorr
11-29-2012, 04:57 PM
Ok, fair enough I had no idea what they were for. But how was I miles off in my estimate if I said they were 2 feet - which equals 24 inches - and you declared them to be 25 inches?

I read your answer incorrectly. That was my mistake. Sorry.

Robert F. Dorr
11-29-2012, 04:57 PM
Wikipedia says 2.

The Wikipedia entry on this topic is pretty weak. I'd prefer a better source.

technomage1
11-29-2012, 04:59 PM
I read your answer incorrectly. That was my mistake. Sorry.

No worries!

Measure Man
11-29-2012, 05:23 PM
The Wikipedia entry on this topic is pretty weak. I'd prefer a better source.

MM guesses 2?

technomage1
11-29-2012, 05:34 PM
2 based on a model airplane news article.

imported_CLSE
11-29-2012, 06:29 PM
Today's trick question:

2. How many Edo XOSE-1 seaplanes were actually built and flown (not the number ordered and not including any built but not flown)?

Yesterday's trick question:

I can't remember why I called it a trick. It wasn't. I'm finishing a series of articles about the H-21 for an aviation magazine in Poland and I really wanted to know. It was a terrific surprise to see who came out of the woodwork to respond, especially since being interested in aircraft automatically disqualifies you from joining the Air Force or participating in these Forums. I got what I thought were pretty good answers from BoredUTM, 71Fish, BENDER56, MilPhD and Sperry1989; a really funny answer from MeasureMan; and maybe not quite so good answers from technoimage1 (who was miles off in his estimate) and the ultra-ubiquitous, ever-present, always vapid Joe Bonham. Answers were examined by experts at the SECRET REBEL BASE.

MilPhD may have made it up with his 25-inch figure but if he did that's what they're going to read in Poland. Because of the exactness of the figure, I'm declaring the MilPhD the winner. If MilPhD will provide me with a postal mailing address within 72 hours, I will send a prize worth $25.


Robert F. Dorr
3411 Valewood Drive
Oakton VA 22124
robert.f.dorr@cox.net
(703) 264-8950

You're welcome for the answer Bob, no need to say thanks...:wacko

Robert F. Dorr
11-29-2012, 07:43 PM
You're welcome for the answer Bob, no need to say thanks...:wacko

Looks like another mistake on my part. I'm sorry.

MilPhD
11-29-2012, 07:44 PM
Today's trick question:

2. How many Edo XOSE-1 seaplanes were actually built and flown (not the number ordered and not including any built but not flown)?

Yesterday's trick question:

I can't remember why I called it a trick. It wasn't. I'm finishing a series of articles about the H-21 for an aviation magazine in Poland and I really wanted to know. It was a terrific surprise to see who came out of the woodwork to respond, especially since being interested in aircraft automatically disqualifies you from joining the Air Force or participating in these Forums. I got what I thought were pretty good answers from BoredUTM, 71Fish, BENDER56, MilPhD and Sperry1989; a really funny answer from MeasureMan; and maybe not quite so good answers from technoimage1 (who was miles off in his estimate) and the ultra-ubiquitous, ever-present, always vapid Joe Bonham. Answers were examined by experts at the SECRET REBEL BASE.

MilPhD may have made it up with his 25-inch figure but if he did that's what they're going to read in Poland. Because of the exactness of the figure, I'm declaring the MilPhD the winner. If MilPhD will provide me with a postal mailing address within 72 hours, I will send a prize worth $25.


Robert F. Dorr
3411 Valewood Drive
Oakton VA 22124
robert.f.dorr@cox.net
(703) 264-8950


Very nice. Unfortunately due to very tight security regulations my name and address to the Imperial Base must be kept classified. Please donate very gracious prize to the local base library.

Thanks, as always for quality entertainment on the forum.

Robert F. Dorr
11-29-2012, 07:55 PM
Very nice. Unfortunately due to very tight security regulations my name and address to the Imperial Base must be kept classified. Please donate very gracious prize to the local base library.

Thanks, as always for quality entertainment on the forum.

I don't blame you. I make public the contact information for my FOB. That's an Air Force technical term. It's an abbreviation. You can do something called a word search to find out what it means. However, I would never, never compromise the handful of brave, outnumbered MTF patriots who are gathering strength at the SECRET REBEL BASE. Because I've previously donated copies of all of my books to the libraries at Andrews and Bolling AFBs -- that's an abbreviation -- I will honor the spirit of your wishes and make my donation to a veterans service organization. Please note that it is against OPSEC policy -- that's an abbreviation -- to put two spaces between sentences.

Robert F. Dorr
11-30-2012, 04:04 AM
3. What was the American military unit and what were the names of the American soldiers who captured German planemaker Willy Messerschmitt at Oberammergau on April 29, 1945?

I usually go to bed at 8:30 p.m. and tonight I'm up past midnight because of deadlines on the H-21 (a magazine in Poland) and XOSE-1 (Aviation History magazine), both of which were due today and are now finished, thank heaven.

American Legion, C.K.R.T. Post 7, 17448 South DuPont Hwy, Harrington, DE 19952,will receive a copy of "HELL HAWKS!" (cover price $24.95), a history of a P-47 Thunderbolt fighter group in World War II signed by co-authors Robert F. Dorr and Thomas D. Jones. The post was selected at random. This is in honor of MilPhD and is in lieu of sending the book as a prize directly to MilPhD based on my "trick question" no. 1 of November 27, 2012.

About the holes in the H-21 helicopter fuselage: when I was in high school in the 1950s near Andrews AFB a fellow student claimed to have crawled up inside the hole and to have stowed away during a brief flight on one of the Air Force H-21Bs used to support the Texas Tower program. It is possible for a person to fit back there and I've heard of it being done but it's also very hot being right up against the engine. (By the way, MilPhD: except on the one-of-a-kind XH-21D model, no turboshafts).

With regard to "trick question" no. 2 of November 28, 2012 about the Edo XOSE-1, it looks like a tie between MeasureMan and technimage1. In a random drawing, Measureman becomes the winner of the prize. If he will provide an address, I'll send it to him.

MilPhD
11-30-2012, 05:19 PM
Allied soldiers (British) captured Willy Messerschmitt in April 1945, at the Bavaria Aircraft facility. Oberammergau was the Bavarian property where Messerschmitt was under house arrest.

Source:

http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/Willy_Messerschmitt.aspx

Robert F. Dorr
12-02-2012, 01:01 AM
4. Who was Hieronymus Lauer and what happened to him twice? Very big extra points if you can find any details of his early life and upbringing.

A new rule: You can use the Internet all you want but please don't include a link as part of your answer.

Measure Man will receive a copy of "AIR FORCE ONE" (retail price $34.95), a great coffee table book about presidential aircraft. This is the prize based on my "trick question no. 2" of November 29, 2012.

American Legion Post 100, 451 West Spring Lane, Lemoore CA 93245, will receive a copy of "MISSION TO BERLIN" (retail price $28.00), a history of B-17 Flying Fortress bomber crews in Europe in World War II. The post was selected at Random. This is in honor of MilPhD and is in lieu of sending the book as a prize directly to MilPhD based on my "trick question no. 3 of November 30, 2012. MilPhD's answer was the worst. But it was also the best.

These are real questions for real projects I'm working on and your help is needed and appreciated.

technomage1
12-02-2012, 02:54 AM
Shot down twice in an ME262. I can't find any personal info though aside from an address that may be him or a relative.

eman_osan
12-03-2012, 04:26 AM
Bob,
Will this work: Rony Lauer joined the Luftwaffe in 1937 but was still in pilot training at the start of the war. In 1942 he was posted to join KG30, flying the JU-88 on operations over England and later in the Mediteranean theater. In June, 1944, he transferred to 1./KG51 for training on the ME-262 and flew in in combat a few months later. Rony flew one of the lead aircraft in the attack on the Bridge at Remagen, and flew the 262 until the end of the war. Rony Lauer was witness to the first recorded Allied destruction of a Me262, belonging to the unit known as Kommando Schenk, on 28th August 1944, claimed as destroyed by 78th FG pilots Major Joseph Myers and Second Lieutenant Manford O. Croy flying P-47 Thunderbolts. Oberfeldwebel Hieronymus Ronny Lauer of I KG(J) 51, on a landing pattern crash landed his 262 to get away from the Allied fighters, which then destroyed the Me262 in strafing attacks.

4. Who was Hieronymus Lauer and what happened to him twice? Very big extra points if you can find any details of his early life and upbringing.

A new rule: You can use the Internet all you want but please don't include a link as part of your answer.

Measure Man will receive a copy of "AIR FORCE ONE" (retail price $34.95), a great coffee table book about presidential aircraft. This is the prize based on my "trick question no. 2" of November 29, 2012.

American Legion Post 100, 451 West Spring Lane, Lemoore CA 93245, will receive a copy of "MISSION TO BERLIN" (retail price $28.00), a history of B-17 Flying Fortress bomber crews in Europe in World War II. The post was selected at Random. This is in honor of MilPhD and is in lieu of sending the book as a prize directly to MilPhD based on my "trick question no. 3 of November 30, 2012. MilPhD's answer was the worst. But it was also the best.

These are real questions for real projects I'm working on and your help is needed and appreciated.

Robert F. Dorr
12-03-2012, 10:47 PM
5. Who was the German pilot in the first air-to-air engagement with the allies by the Messerschmitt Me 262?

Remember the new rule: You can use the Internet all you want but please don't include a link as part of your answer.

technoimage1 and eman_osan both provided correct answers to my "trick question no. 4" of December 1, 2012. Since there can be only one winner, I'll have to pick technoimage1 for being first. Thank you to both of you. Although I know that Lauer died in 2008, I would appreciate it if you'd send me that address, please.

If technoimage1 will provide an address, I will mail the prize for the correct answer. If technoimage1 does not want to provide an address, please let me know and I'll offer the prize instead to eman_osan.

This is not a parlor game. I'm writing a book about air battles between the Allies and German jets. You are providing real and useful help to me.

I'm always looking for more information in response to my earlier questions in addition to seeking an answer to my new question, above.

eman_osan
12-04-2012, 12:47 AM
Bobert


Alfred Schreiber (11 November 1923 – 26 November 1944), nicknamed "Bubi", was a German Luftwaffe fighter ace. He is noted for claiming the first aerial victory by a jet fighter in aviation history. He was born on 11 November 1923 in Keplachowitz.



5. Who was the German pilot in the first air-to-air engagement with the allies by the Messerschmitt Me 262?

Remember the new rule: You can use the Internet all you want but please don't include a link as part of your answer.

technoimage1 and eman_osan both provided correct answers to my "trick question no. 4" of December 1, 2012. Since there can be only one winner, I'll have to pick technoimage1 for being first. Thank you to both of you. Although I know that Lauer died in 2008, I would appreciate it if you'd send me that address, please.

If technoimage1 will provide an address, I will mail the prize for the correct answer. If technoimage1 does not want to provide an address, please let me know and I'll offer the prize instead to eman_osan.

This is not a parlor game. I'm writing a book about air battles between the Allies and German jets. You are providing real and useful help to me.

I'm always looking for more information in response to my earlier questions in addition to seeking an answer to my new question, above.

eman_osan
12-04-2012, 12:47 AM
Bobert


Alfred Schreiber (11 November 1923 – 26 November 1944), nicknamed "Bubi", was a German Luftwaffe fighter ace. He is noted for claiming the first aerial victory by a jet fighter in aviation history. He was born on 11 November 1923 in Keplachowitz.



5. Who was the German pilot in the first air-to-air engagement with the allies by the Messerschmitt Me 262?

Remember the new rule: You can use the Internet all you want but please don't include a link as part of your answer.

technoimage1 and eman_osan both provided correct answers to my "trick question no. 4" of December 1, 2012. Since there can be only one winner, I'll have to pick technoimage1 for being first. Thank you to both of you. Although I know that Lauer died in 2008, I would appreciate it if you'd send me that address, please.

If technoimage1 will provide an address, I will mail the prize for the correct answer. If technoimage1 does not want to provide an address, please let me know and I'll offer the prize instead to eman_osan.

This is not a parlor game. I'm writing a book about air battles between the Allies and German jets. You are providing real and useful help to me.

I'm always looking for more information in response to my earlier questions in addition to seeking an answer to my new question, above.

eman_osan
12-04-2012, 12:52 AM
Robert,
I want a book. Additional info: Alfred Schreiber (11 November 1923 – 26 November 1944), nicknamed "Bubi", was a German Luftwaffe fighter ace. He is noted for claiming the first aerial victory by a jet fighter in aviation history. He was born on 11 November 1923 in Keplachowitz.

On 26 July 1944, Leutnant Schreiber, a former Zerstörergeschwader 26 pilot, intercepted and attacked a Mosquito PR XVI, a photo-reconnaissance aircraft from No. 540 Squadron RAF, while flying Messerschmitt Me 262 A-1a W.Nr. 130 017.

eman_osan
12-04-2012, 12:53 AM
Robert,
I want a book. Additional info: Alfred Schreiber (11 November 1923 – 26 November 1944), nicknamed "Bubi", was a German Luftwaffe fighter ace. He is noted for claiming the first aerial victory by a jet fighter in aviation history. He was born on 11 November 1923 in Keplachowitz.

On 26 July 1944, Leutnant Schreiber, a former Zerstörergeschwader 26 pilot, intercepted and attacked a Mosquito PR XVI, a photo-reconnaissance aircraft from No. 540 Squadron RAF, while flying Messerschmitt Me 262 A-1a W.Nr. 130 017.

Robert F. Dorr
12-04-2012, 11:04 PM
6. What did Adolf Hitler personally have to say about the De Havilland Mosquito aircraft and when and where did he say it?

Remember this rule: You can use the Internet all you want but please don't include a link as part of your answer.

Whoever provides the best answer will receive a prize with a retail value of about $25. Two such prizes are departing here tomorrow for answers to previous questions.

This is not a parlor game. I'm writing a book about air battles between the Allies and German jets. You are providing real and useful help. I need more. I especially need more information about the key pilots who will appear in this book.

Bob

Robert F. Dorr
3411 Valewood Drive
Oakton VA 22124
robert.f.dorr@cox.net
(703) 264-8950


I'm always looking for more information in response to my earlier questions in addition to seeking an answer to my new question, above.

Robert F. Dorr
12-04-2012, 11:04 PM
7. Why did Hitler dislike the Mosquito so much?

Robert F. Dorr
12-05-2012, 11:25 AM
8. Describe in a couple of sentences how French forces used the Piasecki/Vertol H-21 helicopter in Algeria.

technomage1
12-05-2012, 11:39 AM
7. Why did Hitler dislike the Mosquito so much?

Because the bites itch. Sorry, couldn't resist.

It was made of wood and therefore unpenatrable to German radar. It was also fast.

technomage1
12-05-2012, 11:44 AM
8. Describe in a couple of sentences how French forces used the Piasecki/Vertol H-21 helicopter in Algeria.

They used it for ground attack, fitting fixed, forward firing rockets and machine guns on it.

PS

Sent you a PM with my info, did you get it? If not I will email it to you.

technomage1
12-05-2012, 12:07 PM
6. What did Adolf Hitler personally have to say about the De Havilland Mosquito aircraft and when and where did he say it?



I can't find any Hitler quotes on this. Hitler couldn't have been too happy if they bombed Berlin in daylight on his birthday, though. You know the war is not going as planned when....

eman_osan
12-06-2012, 02:48 AM
I can't find any Hitler quotes on this. Hitler couldn't have been too happy if they bombed Berlin in daylight on his birthday, though. You know the war is not going as planned when....

The only quote I could find was from 1940: At the Berlin Sports Palace, Fuhrer Adolph Hitler shrieked, "We will raze their cities to the ground. One of us will break, and it will not be National Socialist Germany."

Robert F. Dorr
12-06-2012, 10:10 AM
The only quote I could find was from 1940: At the Berlin Sports Palace, Fuhrer Adolph Hitler shrieked, "We will raze their cities to the ground. One of us will break, and it will not be National Socialist Germany."

I'm surprised at how often Adolf Hitler's name is spelled incorrectly.

sandsjames
12-06-2012, 01:42 PM
6. What did Adolf Hitler personally have to say about the De Havilland Mosquito aircraft and when and where did he say it?

He said that the De Havilland Mosquito turned him on. He said it in the bathtub to his mistress (name unknown). I have no link or proof of this, but also don't think it can be disproven.

sandsjames
12-06-2012, 01:43 PM
I'm surprised at how often Adolf Hitler's name is spelled incorrectly. Do you think maybe Hitler himself spelled it wrong and everyone else spells it right?

Robert F. Dorr
12-06-2012, 09:52 PM
9. What was the full name (not just the initials) of Flight Lieutenant A. W. Wall, the Mosquito pilot who was engaged by Alfred "Bubi" Schreiber in a Messerschmitt Me 262 on July 26, 1944? You get a gold star on your paper if you add the identity of Wall's squadron.

The British custom of identifying people only by their initials always annoys me.

Yes, I'm still looking for serious answers to historical questions and am offering a prize for any answer that helps me with my work. I've asked nine questions as of today and four people are receiving prizes. I will comment later on questions 6 through 8.

Robert F. Dorr
12-10-2012, 12:46 AM
10. What is the largest number of bombers the Strategic Air Command had in service at any one time? Extra points if you can find a breakdown by aircraft type.

Sorry. No prizes for 6 through 8. I still owe about 300 words on the French using the H-21 in Algeria and for that I need dates, locations, purpose, etc. I'm finished with my writing on the subjects of questions 6, 7 and 9, and didn't get enough help with those to justify a prize. There is still time to help with the French and the H-21 in Algeria.

Give me answer that helps with my writing and you get a prize with a retail value of $25 or more.

eman_osan
12-10-2012, 05:37 AM
10. What is the largest number of bombers the Strategic Air Command had in service at any one time? Extra points if you can find a breakdown by aircraft type.

Sorry. No prizes for 6 through 8. I still owe about 300 words on the French using the H-21 in Algeria and for that I need dates, locations, purpose, etc. I'm finished with my writing on the subjects of questions 6, 7 and 9, and didn't get enough help with those to justify a prize. There is still time to help with the French and the H-21 in Algeria.

Give me answer that helps with my writing and you get a prize with a retail value of $25 or more.

Bob,
Year 1959, 1366, B-47; 488, B-52 Total: 1854 aircraft

Robert F. Dorr
12-11-2012, 11:34 PM
11. Find Robert K. Filbey for me.

(When he contacted me in 2001, he was an Air Force captain. I've found a reference to a subsequent promotion to major but nothing after that. Here's why I want him: his wife's grandfather, Major George Anthony, was aboard the German Junkers Ju 290 transport "Alles Kaputt" (All Is Lost) that was flown from Germany to the United States on July 31, 1945. Records show the aircraft as being piloted by Col. Harold Watson and Capt. Fred McIntosh, so it's not clear what Anthony's role was. Filbey contacted me on December 31, 2001 to tell me about memorabilia from the Ju 290 in his family. I'm not able to find him using the usual Internet search tools. If still on active duty he might be a lieutenant colonel today).

To bring us complete up to date, eman_osan has provided the correct answer to question no. 10. I wonder where he found it...? I located it in the Air Force's own history of the Strategic Air Command (page 80). eman_osan will receive a prize for the second time. I'm including a reminder of my own contact information with this post.

Robert F. Dorr
3411 Valewood Drive
Oakton VA 22124
robert.f.dorr@cox.net
(703) 264-8950

eman_osan
12-12-2012, 12:07 AM
Lt Col Robert K. Filbey - last known location: Hill AFB, UT.

11. Find Robert K. Filbey for me.

(When he contacted me in 2001, he was an Air Force captain. I've found a reference to a subsequent promotion to major but nothing after that. Here's why I want him: his wife's grandfather, Major George Anthony, was aboard the German Junkers Ju 290 transport "Alles Kaputt" (All Is Lost) that was flown from Germany to the United States on July 31, 1945. Records show the aircraft as being piloted by Col. Harold Watson and Capt. Fred McIntosh, so it's not clear what Anthony's role was. Filbey contacted me on December 31, 2001 to tell me about memorabilia from the Ju 290 in his family. I'm not able to find him using the usual Internet search tools. If still on active duty he might be a lieutenant colonel today).

To bring us complete up to date, eman_osan has provided the correct answer to question no. 10. I wonder where he found it...? I located it in the Air Force's own history of the Strategic Air Command (page 80). eman_osan will receive a prize for the second time. I'm including a reminder of my own contact information with this post.

Robert F. Dorr
3411 Valewood Drive
Oakton VA 22124
robert.f.dorr@cox.net
(703) 264-8950

Robert F. Dorr
12-12-2012, 11:17 PM
I don't know answer to trick question,
but I have a bunch of Tricks.

Tak aka Pimpolicious

This is the kind of unhelpful idea that interferes with a civil discussion about Air Force issues.

Robert F. Dorr
12-12-2012, 11:25 PM
12. What is the number of KC-135 Stratotankers in inventory today? (This is public information but I have two figures).

Follow-up on question no. 11 in a day or so. Confirmed that my questions about the Air Force are within the terms of service of these Forums, no matter what tiredretiredE7, Tak and seneca7-11 might think. There is different issue involving the privacy of an individual and it was a mistake to use these Forums to try to locate someone, although there is no rule against it.

Thanks again to everyone who contacted me.

ske4za
12-12-2012, 11:49 PM
12. What is the number of KC-135 Stratotankers in inventory today? (This is public information but I have two figures).

I found a wild range of numbers, up to 550 for the total-force (active duty, reserve, and guard), but it looks like they have been retiring a lot within the last decade. Here is the most current that I have found.

Source (http://www.bga-aeroweb.com/Defense/C-135-Series.html)

As of March 2012, there are 396 aircraft in the KC-135 inventory.

Robert F. Dorr
12-14-2012, 12:55 AM
13. What happened to the designer of the Messerschmitt Me 262 at the end of the war?

There is no new prize to announce. I found the person I was looking for using a method that someone could have suggested but didn't -- simply following the standard Air Force format for an individual's e-mail address. I found the number of KC-135s off line. A sentence or two about what happened to the designer of the Me 262 will bring a prize for anyone who wants to help.

The appropriate people have reviewed this thread and determined that it complies with the terms of service of these Forum. Asking for information is actually one of the purposes of this venue. If you don't want to participate, don't.

Robert F. Dorr
12-14-2012, 01:23 AM
14. What was the date of the first flight of the Junkers Ju 290 A-1?

Greg
12-14-2012, 01:36 AM
14. What was the date of the first flight of the Junkers Ju 290 A-1?

I'll bite:

"Type:
– Long Range Transport
– Reconnaissance Bomber
– Maritime Patrol
Origin: Junkers Flugzeug und Motorenwerke
Models: Ju 290A-1 to A-8 and B-1, B-2 and C
Crew: 9
First Flight (rebuilt Ju90V5): Early 1939
First Flight (prototype Ju 290 V1): July 16, 1942
First Flight (production Ju 290A-1): October 1942
Service Delivery: August 1942
Final Delivery: October 1944"

http://warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/ju290.html

Robert F. Dorr
12-15-2012, 12:28 AM
15. Find me someone who participated in a deployment called Coronet Buffalo when 36 Air National Guard A-7Ds deployed to RAF Waddington over May 11-June 8, 1985. The units involved were: South Dakota ANG 114/TFG/125th TFS; Sioux Falls Iowa ANG 132TFW/124th TFS Des Moines; Iowa ANG 185 TFG/174th TFS Sioux City. Looking for anyone who had any connection with this large-scale A-7D exercise.

Robert F. Dorr
12-26-2012, 01:01 AM
16. On November 26, 1943, Adolf Hitler attended a show that was put on for him at Insterburg in Bavaria to look at wunderwaffe, or wonder weapons that included the Messerschmitt Me 262 Schwalbe (Swallow) jet fighter. When he arrived that day, where did he come from and what means of transportation did he use?

Questions nos. 1 through 13 are no longer. There have been no winners to the questions that still remain open, namely questions nos. 14 and 15. A month and a year are not sufficient to answer no. 14 -- I knew that already; I need the date. No one has responded to no. 15.

When you provide a correct answer that I can use, you get a prize, assuming you're willing to provide an address so I can send the prize to you.

Sperry1989
12-26-2012, 05:48 PM
Bob,

We cannot give out addresses in these forms since it is considered pii. I thought pii was 3.141592+ or the ratio of the circumference of a circle in relation to its diaphragm.

Robert F. Dorr
12-26-2012, 05:55 PM
Bob,

We cannot give out addresses in these forms since it is considered pii. I thought pii was 3.141592+ or the ratio of the circumference of a circle in relation to its diaphragm.

Says who?

Perhaps you are referring to a military rule. If so, that might apply to active-duty people. I don't think that would prevent anyone from contacting me with their address. Several on these forums have done so. My contact information is readily accessible everywhere including here:

Robert F. Dorr
3411 Valewood Drive
Oakton VA 22124
robert.f.dorr@cox.net
(703) 264-8950

Sperry1989
12-26-2012, 10:36 PM
Says who?

Perhaps you are referring to a military rule. If so, that might apply to active-duty people. I don't think that would prevent anyone from contacting me with their address. Several on these forums have done so. My contact information is readily accessible everywhere including here:

Robert F. Dorr
3411 Valewood Drive
Oakton VA 22124
robert.f.dorr@cox.net
(703) 264-8950

Bob,

Of course you are correct. I tried to pull a Bruwin here in your thread and it was a flop. Perhaps I should leave the heavy lifting to the professionals. I thought the misspelling of Pi and the last word in my post would be a contextual clue that I was not being serious.

eman_osan
12-26-2012, 11:43 PM
Robert the answer to question 14 is:

The Luftwaffe's dire need of large-capacity transport aircraft necessitated the Ju 290As being taken over the Luftwaffe straight from the assembly line, and one of the Ju 290A-0s, together with the Ju 290 V1, was assigned immediately to supply missions for the beleaguered German 6th Army at Stalingrad. The first flight to and from an airfield in the vicinity of the Russian city was made on January 10, 1943. Three days later, the Ju 290 V1 crashed while taking-off with a load of wounded troops being evacuated to Germany, and the Ju 290A-0 was attacked by LaGG-3 fighters during its landing approach after its first flight from Germany. It was so badly damaged that it was unable to effect a lading and had to return to its base.

Source: http://www.aer.ita.br/~bmattos/mundo/ww2/ju290.htm

eman_osan
12-27-2012, 02:26 AM
Question No. 15 is now answered.

Ju 290A series

The first pre-production Ju 290A-0 (wek-Nr. 0150) was completed at Bernburg in October 1942 with BMW 801L engines each rated at 1,600 hp for takeoff and 1,380 hp at 15,100 ft, this, like a second Ju 290A-0 and five Ju 290A-1s (Werk-Nummern 0152-0156), being completed as a transport and possessing essentially similar defensive-armament to that of the Ju 90 V8. This was later to be supplemented by forward maintenance units which introduced a pair of 7.9-mm MG 15 machine guns firing from windows on each side of the forward fuselage.

The Luftwaffe's dire need of large-capacity transport aircraft necessitated the Ju 290As being taken over the Luftwaffe straight from the assembly line, and one of the Ju 290A-0s, together with the Ju 290 V1, was assigned immediately to supply missions for the beleaguered German 6th Army at Stalingrad. The first flight to and from an airfield in the vicinity of the Russian city was made on January 10, 1943. Three days later, the Ju 290 V1 crashed while taking-off with a load of wounded troops being evacuated to Germany, and the Ju 290A-0 was attacked by LaGG-3 fighters during its landing approach after its first flight from Germany. It was so badly damaged that it was unable to effect a lading and had to return to its base
Source: http://www.aer.ita.br/~bmattos/mundo/ww2/ju290.htm



16. On November 26, 1943, Adolf Hitler attended a show that was put on for him at Insterburg in Bavaria to look at wunderwaffe, or wonder weapons that included the Messerschmitt Me 262 Schwalbe (Swallow) jet fighter. When he arrived that day, where did he come from and what means of transportation did he use?

Questions nos. 1 through 13 are no longer. There have been no winners to the questions that still remain open, namely questions nos. 14 and 15. A month and a year are not sufficient to answer no. 14 -- I knew that already; I need the date. No one has responded to no. 15.

When you provide a correct answer that I can use, you get a prize, assuming you're willing to provide an address so I can send the prize to you.

Robert F. Dorr
12-27-2012, 09:01 PM
Question No. 15 is now answered.

Ju 290A series

The first pre-production Ju 290A-0 (wek-Nr. 0150) was completed at Bernburg in October 1942 with BMW 801L engines each rated at 1,600 hp for takeoff and 1,380 hp at 15,100 ft, this, like a second Ju 290A-0 and five Ju 290A-1s (Werk-Nummern 0152-0156), being completed as a transport and possessing essentially similar defensive-armament to that of the Ju 90 V8. This was later to be supplemented by forward maintenance units which introduced a pair of 7.9-mm MG 15 machine guns firing from windows on each side of the forward fuselage.

The Luftwaffe's dire need of large-capacity transport aircraft necessitated the Ju 290As being taken over the Luftwaffe straight from the assembly line, and one of the Ju 290A-0s, together with the Ju 290 V1, was assigned immediately to supply missions for the beleaguered German 6th Army at Stalingrad. The first flight to and from an airfield in the vicinity of the Russian city was made on January 10, 1943. Three days later, the Ju 290 V1 crashed while taking-off with a load of wounded troops being evacuated to Germany, and the Ju 290A-0 was attacked by LaGG-3 fighters during its landing approach after its first flight from Germany. It was so badly damaged that it was unable to effect a lading and had to return to its base
Source: http://www.aer.ita.br/~bmattos/mundo/ww2/ju290.htm

Alas, still no first flight date. But here is more on the Junkers Ju 290 aircraft:

http://www.defensemedianetwork.com/author/robert-f-dorr/

Just think: one of these could have been saved as a museum display -- but wasn't.

eman_osan
12-27-2012, 10:50 PM
Alas, still no first flight date. But here is more on the Junkers Ju 290 aircraft:

http://www.defensemedianetwork.com/author/robert-f-dorr/

Just think: one of these could have been saved as a museum display -- but wasn't.
Bob, you're making this hard. The Ju90 V1 which is the forerunner of the JU 290 with several different model variants actually flew on August 28, 1937. I found this in the same reference I sent you before.

RobotChicken
12-28-2012, 01:54 AM
28 august,1937 (ju 90 v1) D-AALU.......RC.

Robert F. Dorr
12-28-2012, 01:30 PM
Bob, you're making this hard. The Ju90 V1 which is the forerunner of the JU 290 with several different model variants actually flew on August 28, 1937. I found this in the same reference I sent you before.

Yes, I am but my question is about the Ju 290, not the Ju 90.

Robert F. Dorr
01-15-2013, 12:40 PM
17. Where is former budget analyst Cindy Williams (not television actor Cindy Williams), who in 2000 wrote an op-ed piece in the Washington Post titled, "Our GIs Earn Enough"? What is she doing today? Where does she live and what job does she occupy? Be wary of anything on the Internet that doesn't look like accurate information.

This isn't meant to be a trick but is a real question to which I need a real answer. Provide an answer and win the prize.

Capt Alfredo
01-16-2013, 01:27 AM
Just FYI on that thread going around again...

http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/gipay.asp

Robert F. Dorr
01-16-2013, 11:08 AM
Just FYI on that thread going around again...

http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/gipay.asp

Yes, I read the Snopes item before asking the question. It's amazing how much trouble you can get into by arguing that troops are paid enough.

At the height of the Great Depression, a close relative of mine had the good fortune to enjoy a secure job with the U.S. government in Washington. One day, somebody came around and said everyone's salary was being cut by 10 per cent. No one complained. All were grateful they had jobs when so many didn't. All understood that it was a time when sacrifice was called for. The story is family lore and the real facts may have been slightly different but that's the general idea.

Can you imagine the uproar if Cindy Williams or RFD or anyone else were to suggest that 20-year retirement is an anachronism, that the nation can no longer afford it, and that you'll have to work 22 years before you can retire? Just imagine. Do you think anyone would say, "Oh, it's for the good of the country, so let's do it"?

imnohero
01-16-2013, 02:50 PM
Can you imagine the uproar if Cindy Williams or RFD or anyone else were to suggest that 20-year retirement is an anachronism, that the nation can no longer afford it, and that you'll have to work 22 years before you can retire? Just imagine. Do you think anyone would say, "Oh, it's for the good of the country, so let's do it"?

1) In answer to your question: I don't know or care where Ms Williams is today. It doesn't make any difference, since the important discussion are the points raised in her op-ed.

2) Re 20 year retirement/military pay levels: The nation wants an all volunteer force, then the nation will have to pay for it. In case you don't remember, Rumsfeild, Bush, Clinton, et al. implemented a 40% retirement system, that was rescinded 15 years later, for a number of reasons but not the least of which was that it was the #1 reason for low career retention. So yeah, suggest all you want, but reality of the all volunteer force is inescapable.

Robert F. Dorr
01-16-2013, 05:02 PM
1) In answer to your question: I don't know or care where Ms Williams is today. It doesn't make any difference, since the important discussion are the points raised in her op-ed.

2) Re 20 year retirement/military pay levels: The nation wants an all volunteer force, then the nation will have to pay for it. In case you don't remember, Rumsfeild, Bush, Clinton, et al. implemented a 40% retirement system, that was rescinded 15 years later, for a number of reasons but not the least of which was that it was the #1 reason for low career retention. So yeah, suggest all you want, but reality of the all volunteer force is inescapable.

Yes, it's difficult to bring up a subject that is essentially taboo. But here goes:

Twenty-year retirement makes no sense. No sense at all. It never did and it does even less today.

The Redux scheme of the 1990s was a rare attempt to address the problem and, of course, it failed.

Career retention? Give me a break. The services are being KILLED by career retention. They're set up for mid-career re-enlistment rates of around 60 to 65 percent and are now getting 80 to 85 percent. There is no need for an incentive to make the military a career. The opposite is true. To get our force structure right, we need to find a way for more people to want not to.

I'm interested in finding Williams because I want to learn about her experiences after she dared suggest that troops are paid enough.

imnohero
01-16-2013, 06:00 PM
If 20 doesn't make sense, why 22, or 30? Why offer a retirement at all? We can just enroll everyone in a 401K, right? Shoot, we probably shouldn't even provide matching funds or anything.

Robert F. Dorr
01-16-2013, 06:04 PM
If 20 doesn't make sense, why 22, or 30? Why offer a retirement at all? We can just enroll everyone in a 401K, right? Shoot, we probably shouldn't even provide matching funds or anything.

That's pretty extreme. There must be a middle ground that recognizes the need to reward military members but also the need to cut spending.

SomeRandomGuy
01-16-2013, 06:15 PM
If 20 doesn't make sense, why 22, or 30? Why offer a retirement at all? We can just enroll everyone in a 401K, right? Shoot, we probably shouldn't even provide matching funds or anything.

The 401K is one of the ideas being floated. I actually do not see what the problem with it is. Especially if the 401K was a non-contributory plan (though still making contributing an option). I have heard different options mentioned but the one I like best is the government contributing a set amount each month and the GI also contributing a small amount. This system actually benefits everyone. If you stick around 20-30 years you will have achieved a pretty signifigant savings account. If you change your mind and punch out at 14 years you still leave with something. That in my opinion would help us get rid of people who are "ROAD". I have seen plenty of people at 16 years that are just riding out their time to 20. They have no other option because leaving now means they get nothing. Wouldn't everyone be better off getting rid of these people?

Robert F. Dorr
01-16-2013, 08:34 PM
Back to the drawing board. Never had a 401k. Never knew anyone who had one. Time to study up.

jconners [Stolen Valor]
01-16-2013, 09:03 PM
""Why was the Piasecki/Vertol H-21 Workhorse helicopter built with a large round hole on either side of the rear fuselage, halfway between the main landing gear and the horizontal stabilizer? What is the purpose of the hole and what is its diameter?""

Access to allow inspection of rear transmission (and landing gear controls) by crew chief after rotor engagement and prior to takeoff...diameter 26 inches.

imnohero
01-16-2013, 11:36 PM
Back to the drawing board. Never had a 401k. Never knew anyone who had one. Time to study up.

Seriously? You want to discuss retirements without even understanding what current language of the topic is?

I guess when your pulling down 2 government pensions, and have been for 10 or 15 years, it's easy to say they are no longer necessary or affordable. Read: I got mine, screw you.

Robert F. Dorr
01-16-2013, 11:53 PM
Seriously? You want to discuss retirements without even understanding what current language of the topic is?

I guess when your pulling down 2 government pensions, and have been for 10 or 15 years, it's easy to say they are no longer necessary or affordable. Read: I got mine, screw you.

Whose two government pensions do you have in mind?

I plead guilty to exaggerating a little. I do have a pretty good idea what a 401K is and how it works. I don't see how it fits here.

Robert F. Dorr
01-16-2013, 11:54 PM
""Why was the Piasecki/Vertol H-21 Workhorse helicopter built with a large round hole on either side of the rear fuselage, halfway between the main landing gear and the horizontal stabilizer? What is the purpose of the hole and what is its diameter?""

Access to allow inspection of rear transmission (and landing gear controls) by crew chief after rotor engagement and prior to takeoff...diameter 26 inches.

Thank you for your response but this one has been off the table for weeks.

technomage1
01-16-2013, 11:59 PM
Thank you for the book, btw. I really enjoyed it. I can't believe they had to pull Smith off punishment KP duty to award him the medal of honor. Awesome. Today he probably won't have gotten it no matter how much he deserved it due to his disciplinary record.

Robert F. Dorr
01-17-2013, 12:33 AM
Thank you for the book, btw. I really enjoyed it. I can't believe they had to pull Smith off punishment KP duty to award him the medal of honor. Awesome. Today he probably won't have gotten it no matter how much he deserved it due to his disciplinary record.

That's exactly right.

technomage1
01-17-2013, 07:28 AM
That's exactly right.

I have told everybody about that. The officers shake their heads, the enlisted just grin.

Robert F. Dorr
01-18-2013, 05:54 PM
18. Who was the pilot on the first flight of the XP-39, the prototype for the P-39 Airacobra, at Wright Field, Ohio, on April 6, 1938. Name the pilot on this crucial maiden flight and you get the prize.

Of the previous questions posed on this thread, only question no. 17, about Cindy Williams, remains open as of today.

Robert F. Dorr
02-28-2013, 01:00 AM
19. Was any American pilot credited with shooting down a Heinkel He 162?

RobotChicken
02-28-2013, 02:09 AM
:clock
19. Was any American pilot credited with shooting down a Heinkel He 162?
why guy cary 'ole bean'!:plane

Robert F. Dorr
02-28-2013, 08:49 AM
:clock
why guy cary 'ole bean'!:plane

I wonder what this looked like before it was edited.

GoatDriver57
03-01-2013, 01:26 AM
I wonder what this looked like before it was edited.

HA! It wasn't edited. It was thrown up and you jumped for it. :eek:

RobotChicken
03-01-2013, 02:08 AM
:clock 'maybe' it was an AMERICAN pilot flying for the Canadian forces in a 'tempest' (Fairbanks ring a bell??) MUST BE SPECIFIC IN UR ??????? 1 of 2 shot down in combat during the end of the war,gave u the other name...but oh well. :canada

Robert F. Dorr
03-02-2013, 01:09 AM
:clock 'maybe' it was an AMERICAN pilot flying for the Canadian forces in a 'tempest' (Fairbanks ring a bell??) MUST BE SPECIFIC IN UR ??????? 1 of 2 shot down in combat during the end of the war,gave u the other name...but oh well. :canada

Let me study this a little.

Robert F. Dorr
03-02-2013, 01:17 AM
:clock
why guy cary 'ole bean'!:plane

I'm late to realize this but RobotChicken solved my problem and provided the needed answer to "trick question" no. 19. This means that RobotChicken has won first prize, which is a copy of the book "HELL HAWKS!" by Robert F. Dorr and Thomas D. Jones. If RobotChick will contact me (robert.f.dorr@cox.net) and provide an address, I'll send the prize immediately.

RobotChicken
03-02-2013, 03:19 AM
I'm late to realize this but RobotChicken solved my problem and provided the needed answer to "trick question" no. 19. This means that RobotChicken has won first prize, which is a copy of the book "HELL HAWKS!" by Robert F. Dorr and Thomas D. Jones. If RobotChick will contact me (robert.f.dorr@cox.net) and provide an address, I'll send the prize immediately.
:spy You have all my personal info on me, Ron.:first:cheer2

Robert F. Dorr
03-02-2013, 06:00 PM
:spy You have all my personal info on me, Ron.:first:cheer2

Correction: the book is "MISSION TO BERLIN." Watch your mail box.

Robert F. Dorr
03-03-2013, 12:11 AM
20. What was the date of the meeting between Erich Bachem and Heinrich Himmler that resulted in Himmler's throwing Shutzstaffel support behind the Bachem Ba 349 Natter?

KellyinAvon
03-03-2013, 12:33 AM
The Natter was rocket powered, he met with Von Braun.

sandsjames
03-03-2013, 12:42 AM
20. What was the date of the meeting between Erich Bachem and Heinrich Himmler that resulted in Himmler's throwing Shutzstaffel support behind the Bachem Ba 349 Natter?

I tried to read this question, but with all the funny names I felt kind of like you do when you're looking at the acronyms/abbreviations in here.

RobotChicken
03-03-2013, 10:55 PM
The Natter was rocket powered, he met with Von Braun.
:clock I thought Von Braun first proposed it in '39 but later thought it was impractical,bombers could just stay clear of the launch areas.

RobotChicken
03-03-2013, 11:01 PM
20. What was the date of the meeting between Erich Bachem and Heinrich Himmler that resulted in Himmler's throwing Shutzstaffel support behind the Bachem Ba 349 Natter?
:clock Possibly July 5,'44, or August 15,'44, but I'll keep digging......:typing

Robert F. Dorr
03-03-2013, 11:02 PM
The Natter was rocket powered, he met with Von Braun.

I haven't found a reference to him meeting with von Braun, who was in Peenemünde a lot of the time, but Bachem's problem was that no one in the Air Ministry, the Reichsluftfahrtministerium (or RLM, run by Albert Speer after 1943), offered much encouragement for his design. His solution was to turn to Himmler. It was a meeting between Bachem and Himmler (not von Braun) that assured the Natter would be built.

Robert F. Dorr
03-03-2013, 11:04 PM
I tried to read this question, but with all the funny names I felt kind of like you do when you're looking at the acronyms/abbreviations in here.

Not the same. You may not be familiar with the subject matter but my question is clear. There is no need to guess my intent. When someone uses an abbreviation, a category which includes acronyms, it's not possible to guess the writer's intent. I don't expect everyone here to be expertly versed in Bachem and Himmler but one or two people here are.

Robert F. Dorr
03-03-2013, 11:06 PM
:clock Possibly July 5,'44, or August 15,'44, but I'll keep digging......:typing

August 15 would probably be too late. July 5 seems to be right in the ball park.

RobotChicken
03-04-2013, 12:43 AM
August 15 would probably be too late. July 5 seems to be right in the ball park.
The '5th' would be the day after the meeting and 'official' date of approval. (4th being a USA holiday might raise eyebrows??)

Robert F. Dorr
03-04-2013, 12:58 AM
The '5th' would be the day after the meeting and 'official' date of approval. (4th being a USA holiday might raise eyebrows??)

How would the U.S. holiday be factor? This was back before our oppressive federal government imposed so many three-day weekends on us so I'm guessing Independence Day was in fact celebrated on July 4, 1944, which was a Tuesday. But how is that a factor in pinpointing the Bachem-Himmler meeting?

RobotChicken
03-04-2013, 01:10 AM
How would the U.S. holiday be factor? This was back before our oppressive federal government imposed so many three-day weekends on us so I'm guessing Independence Day was in fact celebrated on July 4, 1944, which was a Tuesday. But how is that a factor in pinpointing the Bachem-Himmler meeting?
:spyNone really, just one of those 'coincidences', so I assume the 4th would be the date until I fine some more concrete info to confirm. RC

RobotChicken
03-04-2013, 01:20 AM
:clockThe only thing so far to catch my attention was the fact the Emergency Fighter Program was awarded 3 July 1944 and being a sore loser went to H.Himmler with a pitch to intercede on the selection process and 'bingo',there you have it,after all who ever said "NO" to Himmler? Just my opinion at this point till I find more out.

Robert F. Dorr
03-06-2013, 12:51 PM
:clockThe only thing so far to catch my attention was the fact the Emergency Fighter Program was awarded 3 July 1944 and being a sore loser went to H.Himmler with a pitch to intercede on the selection process and 'bingo',there you have it,after all who ever said "NO" to Himmler? Just my opinion at this point till I find more out.

Not sure I understand the "sore loser" reference. Himmler was, as always, seeking to expand his powers. The Air Ministry initially wasn't interested but Himmler was.

Robert F. Dorr
03-06-2013, 12:52 PM
21. Where can I find a list of commanders of Air Training Command from about 1961 to about 1991?

Looks easy. Isn't.

Mcjohn1118
03-06-2013, 02:40 PM
Mr. Dorr, I came in in 1993, so is Air Training Command now Air Education and Training Command (AETC)? If so, I have a suggestion. I work at Wright-Patterson which also includes Air Force Materiel Command. In the command building, there are portraits with names of all former AFMC Commanders. If you're talking about the Generals that commanded ATC, you may be able to call HQ AETC public affairs at 210-652-9339. Here is a link to their home page as well. http://www.aetc.af.mil/. I don't know if this will work, but good luck.

Mcjohn1118
03-06-2013, 02:41 PM
Here is the link to the AETC historian as well: http://www.aetc.af.mil/library/history/index.asp

Capt Alfredo
03-06-2013, 03:34 PM
I'm betting their pictures are all on the wall down at the HQ building. That's not overly helpful, but the information exists.

Robert F. Dorr
03-06-2013, 04:43 PM
As a matter of fact, I am told by someone that the wall Capt Alredo is thinking about has portraits only of Air Education and Training Command bosses. I could have called public affairs as Mcjohn1118 suggested but guessed that might be too time-consuming. I did use the link to the historian as Mcjohn1118 suggested, made a phone call based on information in the link, and got what I needed and more. I guess that makes Mcjohn1118 the winner of the prize for helping, which is one book by Robert F. Dorr. (Second prize is two books). By the way, Air Education and Training Command has a really good historian's office.

If Mcjohn1118 will send an address, I'll send a book.

Robert F. Dorr
03-06-2013, 06:38 PM
McJohn1118 has indeed checked in and will shortly receive something nice.

Capt Alfredo
03-06-2013, 06:40 PM
As a matter of fact, I am told by someone that the wall Capt Alredo is thinking about has portraits only of Air Education and Training Command bosses. I could have called public affairs as Mcjohn1118 suggested but guessed that might be too time-consuming. I did use the link to the historian as Mcjohn1118 suggested, made a phone call based on information in the link, and got what I needed and more. I guess that makes Mcjohn1118 the winner of the prize for helping, which is one book by Robert F. Dorr. (Second prize is two books). By the way, Air Education and Training Command has a really good historian's office.

If Mcjohn1118 will send an address, I'll send a book.

Surprising, because if you go to San Antonio and visit Air Force ISR Agency HQ, they have pictures of all the top dogs on the wall, going all the way back to Bob's Air Force Security Service days.

Robert F. Dorr
03-06-2013, 06:58 PM
Surprising, because if you go to San Antonio and visit Air Force ISR Agency HQ, they have pictures of all the top dogs on the wall, going all the way back to Bob's Air Force Security Service days.

Of course I'm not certain but since Lilly is using our Gulfstream right now I won't be able to go down to Randolph and find out. Besides, thanks to McJohn1118 I won't need to.

Whenever the topic of photos on the wall comes up, my mind turns to the display at the 1st Helicopter Squadron at Andrews, which had the first sergeant in the lowest spot at the lower right and the commander-in-chief in the highest position at the upper left. Right next to the photo of the then-commander-in-chief was a portrait of Dick Cheney labeled "vice commander in chief." Maybe we've been over this before. The folks there loved him for his many visits and had difficulty grasping the fact that the vice president is not in the military chain of command.

RobotChicken
03-06-2013, 07:16 PM
Not sure I understand the "sore loser" reference. Himmler was, as always, seeking to expand his powers. The Air Ministry initially wasn't interested but Himmler was.
:spy Bachem played that card to H.H.; everyone wanting a piece of everything going on.
Thank you for the book,just came! WILL read it tonight! Little snow coming down now.:smow:couch2

Robert F. Dorr
03-06-2013, 08:49 PM
:spy Bachem played that card to H.H.; everyone wanting a piece of everything going on. Thank you for the book, just came! WILL read it tonight! Little snow coming down now.:smow:couch2

No matter how vile some of these guys may have been, guys like Himmler have an unlimited capacity to arouse our curiosity. Of all the people in that nuthouse, possibly only Goebbels, who murdered his own children, was worse.

Robert F. Dorr
03-16-2013, 12:31 AM
22. When did Pacific Command initiate the Theater Support Package (TSP) concept and what unit made the first TSP deployment?