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BRUWIN
10-22-2012, 06:26 PM
So I applied for this job in "Mechanical Management" supervising/performing rail locomotive and railcar maintenance with CSX. I just got through the interview and it turns out this job had over 2,000 applicants and I was selected along with 200 others to go further in the interview process. The interview went well, however, although the interviewer didn't say it I don't think age works in my favor. The school is 9 months long and the pay is only $57,000 while I'm in there and jumps once I finish the training. Whether I make the final cut or not it was still satisfying to know there are opportunities are out there.

So why do I tell you all this? Well, just know that my CCAF Aircraft Maintenance Technology Degree was a player in this and the interviewer liked the fact I had it, despite my Bachelor's Degree. The job actually asked for a Bachelors degree but my previous mechanical experience along with the CCAF that specifically aaplies to a maintenance profession only helped me further.

I probably won't go any further but I least I tried and if I don't get this position then at least I can finally put the thoughts of working for the rail to bed and find something else I may be interested in. With that said, I beg you younger guys to just do the damn speech clep and get your CCAF, it's not entirely worthless if you want to do something related to your current specialty when you get.

hugomk
10-22-2012, 06:34 PM
Speech CLEP or do an online course. All I had to do to get my CCAF was Speech class but since I was not comfortable CLEPing it I just took an online course with BYU. You have a year to finish the class, self-pace and all you have to do is 7 speeches. Took me 5 months to finish it since I took my time to do it but I heard of other folks that finished it in a month. The course name was TMA 150. Got 2 CCAF degree after finishing that course.

KellyinAvon
10-22-2012, 07:20 PM
Congrats Bru. The CCAF haters will come back with examples that really don't make their point, maybe that speech CLEP would've helped them make points with words.:biggrin
When you say only $57K, that's GS-11 step 1 in this area.

BRUWIN
10-22-2012, 07:33 PM
Congrats Bru. The CCAF haters will come back with examples that really don't make their point, maybe that speech CLEP would've helped them make points with words.:biggrin
When you say only $57K, that's GS-11 step 1 in this area.

Yeah...I'm a GS 11 right now. My interest in CSX has little to do with money.

KellyinAvon
10-22-2012, 07:40 PM
Yeah...I'm a GS 11 right now. My interest in CSX has little to do with money.

If you can pursue something you're interested in with pay not being a huge factor you're in a good place to be. Henry Hill always wanted to be a gangster, did you always want to drive trains?

AF Comm Guy
10-22-2012, 07:50 PM
Is this job at Hill AFB? I know they have a repair depot for air force rail engines.

BRUWIN
10-22-2012, 08:29 PM
If you can pursue something you're interested in with pay not being a huge factor you're in a good place to be. Henry Hill always wanted to be a gangster, did you always want to drive trains?

Drive them yes...however, this is not a locomotive engineer job. Entry level for that is Frieght Conductor. I would love to drive them and actually applied for 3 seperate freight conductor positions at various times. Didn't even get an interview. They wanted a high school education level so maybe they assumed I was applying for shits and giggles and blew me off...I really don't know. So I applied for more a management type position and got an interview that way. I would be completely happy doing this I think. It's outside and after 15 years of being on the flightline, then suddenly being stuck in SCIFS with no windows as an intel troop for the next 15 years, being back outside and supervising maintenance would be a very welcome return.

BRUWIN
10-22-2012, 08:31 PM
Is this job at Hill AFB? I know they have a repair depot for air force rail engines.

Not Air Force...CSX is a rail company that operates all over the Eastern US and parts of Canada.

BRUWIN
10-22-2012, 08:32 PM
Is this job at Hill AFB? I know they have a repair depot for air force rail engines.

Not Air Force...CSX is a rail company that operates all over the Eastern US and parts of Canada.

Measure Man
10-22-2012, 08:46 PM
Not Air Force...CSX is a rail company that operates all over the Eastern US and parts of Canada.

Good luck!!

MilPhD
10-22-2012, 08:52 PM
Evidence could support all degrees being BS. This doesn't change the fact those who have the jobs typically use a degree as a determinant (rightly or wrongly) in whom they hire. Only those full of BS are too ignorant and stupid to admit this simple fact.

Good luck on the job, although I have to wonder why someone would leave a "secure" GS11 position for the railroad industry with a history of job insecurity.

KellyinAvon
10-22-2012, 09:00 PM
Evidence could support all degrees being BS. This doesn't change the fact those who have the jobs typically use a degree as a determinant (rightly or wrongly) in whom they hire. Only those full of BS are too ignorant and stupid to admit this simple fact.

Good luck on the job, although I have to wonder why someone would leave a "secure" GS11 position for the railroad industry with a history of job insecurity.

Should we wait 9 posts until he achieves Brass status or just hate him now?

Blue Warrior
10-22-2012, 09:37 PM
Good luck on the job, although I have to wonder why someone would leave a "secure" GS11 position for the railroad industry with a history of job insecurity.

"Secure" gov job? Have you been watching the news? Sequestration threatens well over 100,000 DoD jobs. Even if sequestration is somehow miraculously averted, you can rest assured that our gov's financial troubles will only get worse as time goes on. Best advice I can give anyone is to get yourself 100% free from gov dependence.

BRUWIN
10-22-2012, 10:52 PM
"Secure" gov job? Have you been watching the news? Sequestration threatens well over 100,000 DoD jobs. Even if sequestration is somehow miraculously averted, you can rest assured that our gov's financial troubles will only get worse as time goes on. Best advice I can give anyone is to get yourself 100% free from gov dependence.

My wife thinks I'm a nutjob for wanting to do something different and I tell her the exact same thing about this supposed GS job security. It doesn't help that she has friends that tell her I should be grateful for the job I have and ask why I wouild consider anything different. I really think people have no clue about the storm on the horizon. Call it denial. I think people that have been in the GS system for awhile will be ok....but juniors like me that are still on probation will be the first out the door.

CrustySMSgt
10-23-2012, 04:03 AM
Do you have to buy your own overalls & hat? ;)

Glad you made the cut; hope you get the job! If not, I'm sure you made an impression on the guy and he'll keep you in the standby pile for the next opening!

EOMFD/GFYM8
10-23-2012, 04:47 AM
Just got a scolding email from the group Chief with comments from the squadron Chief regarding CCAFs and NCOs/SNCOs. Apparently the group is not "leading the way" and that makes Chiefs sad.

In summation:
67% of the Mission Support Gp (MSG) NCO Corps doesn't have a CCAF degree
CE and SFS are tied for degree-less NCOs at 72%
39% of MSgts MSG wide don't have one with CE being the "leader" with 56% degree-less MSgts.
All of the Tech and Master Sergeants in Contracting have theirs.

I know I'm being a dick here, but emails like this make me happy. I also like seeing emails that say the CFC has only 2 days left and the wing is at 7% of its donation goal or the average number of days between DWIs is 4. So what? I like bad news that makes me feel better about myself.

Forsaken Wombat
10-23-2012, 05:23 AM
Just got a scolding email from the group Chief with comments from the squadron Chief regarding CCAFs and NCOs/SNCOs. Apparently the group is not "leading the way" and that makes Chiefs sad.

In summation:
67% of the Mission Support Gp (MSG) NCO Corps doesn't have a CCAF degree
CE and SFS are tied for degree-less NCOs at 72%39% of MSgts MSG wide don't have one with CE being the "leader" with 56% degree-less MSgts.All of the Tech and Master Sergeants in Contracting have theirs.I know I'm being a dick here, but emails like this make me happy. I also like seeing emails that say the CFC has only 2 days left and the wing is at 7% of its donation goal or the average number of days between DWIs is 4. So what? I like bad news that makes me feel better about myself.

SFS people are too busy training, deploying, training, deploying, working, getting crapped on by others & their own, etc. I rag on them a lot but they do have it rough.

As for CE, most are craftsmen who care more about their trade than taking some night class at UMUC or Central Texas College. For most, yes - a CCAF is only a CLEP or two away, but the point is that they'd rather focus on trade-specific courses than fluff like "Speech 101" or "Intermediate Math". It all depends on what your endgame is. Care to stay in and make it a career? Get your damn CCAF. Would you rather get out and be a Master Electrician on the outside working for Southern Company? Hit the books, work on your NEC License, and get as many training courses under your belt as you can.

As for 100% of Contracting NCOs having a CCAF...not surprising. They are the fairy godmothers of bake sales, booster clubs, and professional organizations. A flightline Airman does more work before lunch than a Contracting NCO does in an entire week. And these are the ones getting re-up bonuses.

raider8169
10-23-2012, 05:51 AM
SFS people are too busy training, deploying, training, deploying, working, getting crapped on by others & their own, etc. I rag on them a lot but they do have it rough.

As for CE, most are craftsmen who care more about their trade than taking some night class at UMUC or Central Texas College. For most, yes - a CCAF is only a CLEP or two away, but the point is that they'd rather focus on trade-specific courses than fluff like "Speech 101" or "Intermediate Math". It all depends on what your endgame is. Care to stay in and make it a career? Get your damn CCAF. Would you rather get out and be a Master Electrician on the outside working for Southern Company? Hit the books, work on your NEC License, and get as many training courses under your belt as you can.

As for 100% of Contracting NCOs having a CCAF...not surprising. They are the fairy godmothers of bake sales, booster clubs, and professional organizations. A flightline Airman does more work before lunch than a Contracting NCO does in an entire week. And these are the ones getting re-up bonuses.

SFS and CE are no different than other shops. Stop coming up with excuses and just get the damn thing done. Of course I have mine, the more people that do not have theirs just makes me look that much better. I dont lose sleep knowing that a shit ton of people have time to drink and cause trouble but not find time to finish a simple class or two.

Forsaken Wombat
10-23-2012, 06:00 AM
SFS and CE are no different than other shops. Stop coming up with excuses and just get the damn thing done. Of course I have mine, the more people that do not have theirs just makes me look that much better. I dont lose sleep knowing that a shit ton of people have time to drink and cause trouble but not find time to finish a simple class or two.

I guess you missed the part where I said, "Get your damn CCAF". It's okay.

STL7997
10-23-2012, 07:51 AM
Back when TA was 75% I kinda got why folks didn't get it done. With 100% TA, I am baffled why folks don't get it done. If/when TA does go back to 75% or away all together, does everyone think CCAF degrees will drop significantly?

EOMFD/GFYM8
10-23-2012, 12:08 PM
Back when TA was 75% I kinda got why folks didn't get it done. With 100% TA, I am baffled why folks don't get it done. If/when TA does go back to 75% or away all together, does everyone think CCAF degrees will drop significantly?

Agreed. It's hard enough to get people to do the things the MUST do, let alone the things they SHOULD do, and when you get down to the things they CAN do, it's nearly impossible.

As for me, I struggled with my college algebra CLEP. Tanked it the first time and got really discouraged. I almost said, "fuck it", but I found something called the Online Academic Skills Course (OASC) and used it to teach myself all the math I should have learned in high school instead of getting erections and fishing.

Fullthrottle
10-23-2012, 12:30 PM
SFS people are too busy training, deploying, training, deploying, working, getting crapped on by others & their own, etc. I rag on them a lot but they do have it rough.

As for CE, most are craftsmen who care more about their trade than taking some night class at UMUC or Central Texas College. For most, yes - a CCAF is only a CLEP or two away, but the point is that they'd rather focus on trade-specific courses than fluff like "Speech 101" or "Intermediate Math". It all depends on what your endgame is. Care to stay in and make it a career? Get your damn CCAF. Would you rather get out and be a Master Electrician on the outside working for Southern Company? Hit the books, work on your NEC License, and get as many training courses under your belt as you can.

As for 100% of Contracting NCOs having a CCAF...not surprising. They are the fairy godmothers of bake sales, booster clubs, and professional organizations. A flightline Airman does more work before lunch than a Contracting NCO does in an entire week. And these are the ones getting re-up bonuses.

Sounds like you don’t know much about the contracting career field, or have just met a lot of really lazy individuals. Contracting get their CCAFs easily because by the time they are qualified for their 5 level, APDP level I, they only need a couple classes for their CCAF. Part of their upgrade qualification is 24 business hours of college. And the reason the get the SRB is because they are undermanned and have a retention problem. It’s hard to keep trained individuals in contracting when they can get out at 4 or 6 years and get a GS11 or 12, or get a civilian job that pays even better.

iReddit
10-23-2012, 12:55 PM
Yeah...I'm a GS 11 right now. My interest in CSX has little to do with money.

Good to know, BRU, I guessed I missed that. Was gonna start a thread about your awesomeness (from baiting to umbrellas, to glutes in running shorts) in an effort to convince potential employers.

SomeRandomGuy
10-23-2012, 01:11 PM
Sounds like you don’t know much about the contracting career field, or have just met a lot of really lazy individuals. Contracting get their CCAFs easily because by the time they are qualified for their 5 level, APDP level I, they only need a couple classes for their CCAF. Part of their upgrade qualification is 24 business hours of college. And the reason the get the SRB is because they are undermanned and have a retention problem. It’s hard to keep trained individuals in contracting when they can get out at 4 or 6 years and get a GS11 or 12, or get a civilian job that pays even better.

Maybe I don't know much about contracting either but having to deal with them is frustrating. My organization has over 12 million in dormant contracts right now. Some of them are as old as Fiscal year 2007 It is frustrating that I am having to do contracting's job for them. The period of performance on most of these contracts ended a long time ago. The problem is that no one ever stays in the same position long enough to take care of their contracts. Everytime I email someone the response I get is that they do not work in that office anymore and they have no idea who took over for them. It's pretty ridiculous.

ConfusedAirman
10-23-2012, 01:50 PM
My wife thinks I'm a nutjob for wanting to do something different and I tell her the exact same thing about this supposed GS job security. It doesn't help that she has friends that tell her I should be grateful for the job I have and ask why I wouild consider anything different. I really think people have no clue about the storm on the horizon. Call it denial. I think people that have been in the GS system for awhile will be ok....but juniors like me that are still on probation will be the first out the door.

Damn skippy. Good on you to be working a backup plan.

technomage1
10-23-2012, 02:52 PM
I don't hate the CCAF. I just think it is in your best interest not to stop there but to go on and get a bachelor's or above, which is more transparent to civilian sectors not affiliated with the military.

Fullthrottle
10-23-2012, 03:45 PM
Maybe I don't know much about contracting either but having to deal with them is frustrating. My organization has over 12 million in dormant contracts right now. Some of them are as old as Fiscal year 2007 It is frustrating that I am having to do contracting's job for them. The period of performance on most of these contracts ended a long time ago. The problem is that no one ever stays in the same position long enough to take care of their contracts. Everytime I email someone the response I get is that they do not work in that office anymore and they have no idea who took over for them. It's pretty ridiculous.

I feel for you and understand where you are coming from. It sounds like you may already know, but just in case you don't, a lot of our contracts are multiyear contracts and people do move on before they are completed. If you contact an old POC they should be able to point you in the right direction to get you to the new POC. Another thing to keep in mind, if your contracts are cost type contracts it can take years before they can be closed out and any extra funds de-obligated. There are way too many scenarios to explain why you are having the issues you are having, and it very well could be plain old laziness like you said.

In my prior post I didn’t mean to come across that Contracting don’t have its share of lazy people, we aren’t the exception, every career field has them. Anyway if you want to shoot me some specifics in a PM I may be able to shed some more light for you.

Airborne
10-23-2012, 03:55 PM
Back when TA was 75% I kinda got why folks didn't get it done. With 100% TA, I am baffled why folks don't get it done. If/when TA does go back to 75% or away all together, does everyone think CCAF degrees will drop significantly?

I sort of hope it goes back down so it's not damn near mandatory for freaking TSgts to have it as it is now.

ttribe
10-23-2012, 08:38 PM
Way to go BRU. One morning while I was on terminal, I woke up at 0-dark and started applying to several railroad positions. They all responded pretty quickly.
I went to a NS hiring session for Signal Maintainer. The way they did hiring in the area was to get a room full of people and hire from that group. We started with about 50. Lost 8 right off the bat when they explained the drug testing policy, about another 2 dozen when we finished taking the written tests, then they went over our resumes and applications and invited 10 of us in to interview. The hiring guy called me on the way home and offered me the job.

I went to a UP hiring session to be a rail car maintainer. Made it all the way through again, but was not offered the job.

UP called me to go through the process for rail service(conductor-leading to engineer). It cracked me up. They asked me to go to a central testing center and take a reading test. I make the appointment and go over. I get there and it is a place where people are taking a wide variety of tests for college, computer certs, etc. They made me empty my pockets and sign this big threatening document about cheating befor they let me into the testing room. Then I took the 5th grade level test in five minutes and laughed all the way home trying to figure out how to cheat on a reading test. I called UP and cancelled the hiring session a couple of days before I started my GS job.

I'll stick to the GS position. I actually really like it. I work with all of my old friends. We are able to do a lot more as civilians than we could in uniform. My last year in uniform, I started studying and pursuing becoming a power lineman with the local power company. I told my wife that if they called, I would have gone that route in a second. It just looked like good satisfying work. And it pays it's journeymen pretty good.

Rainmaker
10-23-2012, 09:02 PM
Drive them yes...however, this is not a locomotive engineer job. Entry level for that is Frieght Conductor. I would love to drive them and actually applied for 3 seperate freight conductor positions at various times. Didn't even get an interview. They wanted a high school education level so maybe they assumed I was applying for shits and giggles and blew me off...I really don't know. So I applied for more a management type position and got an interview that way. I would be completely happy doing this I think. It's outside and after 15 years of being on the flightline, then suddenly being stuck in SCIFS with no windows as an intel troop for the next 15 years, being back outside and supervising maintenance would be a very welcome return.

CSX must've heard about that "boy on the donkey cart full of pomegranates" incident in Massoud circle rush hour traffic. No way they'd put you behind a 200 ton locomotive.

BRUWIN
10-23-2012, 10:59 PM
CSX must've heard about that "boy on the donkey cart full of pomegranates" incident in Massoud circle rush hour traffic. No way they'd put you behind a 200 ton locomotive.

You must be thinking of Marine Lt Col "Lead Foot." I was a very good driver....I was born to drive.

CrustySMSgt
10-24-2012, 05:11 AM
Would be great if you got the gig... love to see folks land that dream job!

And thanks for the rep message! I wanna be like you when I grow up! :)

TVANSCOT
10-24-2012, 11:31 AM
Nice post, it is a reminder, and someone else said this as well... the degree may seem worthless, but someone else's trash might seem like gold to another. I have mine, it wasn't painful and it is done. There is even less of an excuse to get this done then for doing PT.

I do understand, that there are shops where is there is plenty of "sit" time and there are shops where there is much less "sit" time, but ion the end it is up to you.

Oh and by the by... get an engineers cap, you don't need to be one to look radically cool in one! I got my from the Stroudsburg museum in PA. It matches then one I got there when I was like 6.

I can wanting to switch to a job like this, especially for someone like me who was practically force fed everything RR related since the age of 1.

Good luck!

tiredretiredE7
10-24-2012, 05:40 PM
Nice post, it is a reminder, and someone else said this as well... the degree may seem worthless, but someone else's trash might seem like gold to another. I have mine, it wasn't painful and it is done. There is even less of an excuse to get this done then for doing PT.

I do understand, that there are shops where is there is plenty of "sit" time and there are shops where there is much less "sit" time, but ion the end it is up to you.

Oh and by the by... get an engineers cap, you don't need to be one to look radically cool in one! I got my from the Stroudsburg museum in PA. It matches then one I got there when I was like 6.

I can wanting to switch to a job like this, especially for someone like me who was practically force fed everything RR related since the age of 1.

Good luck!

Depends on the skillset and if there are any retired AF in the interview panel. I recently went through four interview panels in one day and education was a huge part of the questions. I explained that I did not have a CCAF due to duty requirements/assignments and they were perfectly fine with my prior AF Associates degree from their local college that the Air Force would not accept. I also educated them on the AF marking down EPRs in the training block for those MSgts who did not have their CCAF. I wish I could have taken a picture on the interview panels faces. Complete utter disbelief of what I was telling them about the markdowns. There was a retired AF SF on the panel who personally verified what I was saying. The CCAF does NOT have any clout in this area anymore and my prior Associate’s degree does. That's reality for you. Now multiply that by how many MSgts are retiring without a CCAF and have markdowns who will be giving the same explanation I did. How do you think that CCAF will be doing in a couple more years of the AF non-sense of marking down people who clearly exceed the standard? Course 14 and Joint SNCO PME had not weight as well for my education overall score from the board.

My advice is to get a Bachelor degree with or without the CCAF.

sandsjames
10-24-2012, 05:54 PM
Get rid of TA altogether. We've already got the GI Bill. If a person is really "better than their peers" then they will knock out the degree on their own. It's like someone who volunteers to give blood during duty hours because it A)gets them out of PT and B)gives them a bullet statement. The real "well rounded" people are doing stuff on their own time. TA is a budget drain. We don't need it and spouses definitely don't need it. Cut it completely and maybe I can buy a ratchet for my shop that doesn't have to be held together with electrical tape.

tiredretiredE7
10-24-2012, 06:05 PM
Get rid of TA altogether. We've already got the GI Bill. If a person is really "better than their peers" then they will knock out the degree on their own. It's like someone who volunteers to give blood during duty hours because it A)gets them out of PT and B)gives them a bullet statement. The real "well rounded" people are doing stuff on their own time. TA is a budget drain. We don't need it and spouses definitely don't need it. Cut it completely and maybe I can buy a ratchet for my shop that doesn't have to be held together with electrical tape.

SJ,

I think its safe to say TA will not be around for long. DOD's budget can't support it anymore.

BRUWIN
10-24-2012, 09:10 PM
Depends on the skillset and if there are any retired AF in the interview panel. I recently went through four interview panels in one day and education was a huge part of the questions. I explained that I did not have a CCAF due to duty requirements/assignments and they were perfectly fine with my prior AF Associates degree from their local college that the Air Force would not accept. I also educated them on the AF marking down EPRs in the training block for those MSgts who did not have their CCAF. I wish I could have taken a picture on the interview panels faces. Complete utter disbelief of what I was telling them about the markdowns. There was a retired AF SF on the panel who personally verified what I was saying. The CCAF does NOT have any clout in this area anymore and my prior Associate’s degree does. That's reality for you. Now multiply that by how many MSgts are retiring without a CCAF and have markdowns who will be giving the same explanation I did. How do you think that CCAF will be doing in a couple more years of the AF non-sense of marking down people who clearly exceed the standard? Course 14 and Joint SNCO PME had not weight as well for my education overall score from the board.

My advice is to get a Bachelor degree with or without the CCAF.

I got a bachelors degree as well and it was a prerequisite to apply for the job. However, how many of those applicants also have an associates in a mechanical field? I really don't know because she didn't tell me, but I am guessing it's not many. But I ain't getting my hopes up either.

Measure Man
10-24-2012, 09:56 PM
You got them Freight Train Blues, brutha:



I was born in Dixie in a boomer shack
Just a little shanty by the railroad track
Freight train whistle taught me how to cry
The holler of the driver was my lullaby
I got the freight train blues
Oh Lord mama, I got them in the bottom of my rambling shoes
And when the whistle blows I gotta go baby, don't you know
Well, it looks like I'm never gonna lose the freight train blues.

Well, my daddy was a fireman and my mama-ha
She was the only daugther of an engineer
My sweetheart was a brakeman and it ain't no joke
A shame the way she keeps a good man broke
I got the freight train blues
Oh Lord mama, I got them in the bottom of my rambling shoes
And when the whistle blows I gotta go mama, don't you know
Well, it looks like I'm never gonna lose the freight train blues.

Well, the only thing that makes me laugh again
Is a southbound whistle on a southbound train
Every place I wanna go I never can go
Because you know I got the freight train blues
Oh Lord mama, I got them in the bottom of my rambling shoes.

~ Bob Dylan

raider8169
10-25-2012, 12:09 AM
Get rid of TA altogether. We've already got the GI Bill. If a person is really "better than their peers" then they will knock out the degree on their own. It's like someone who volunteers to give blood during duty hours because it A)gets them out of PT and B)gives them a bullet statement. The real "well rounded" people are doing stuff on their own time. TA is a budget drain. We don't need it and spouses definitely don't need it. Cut it completely and maybe I can buy a ratchet for my shop that doesn't have to be held together with electrical tape.

TA is not going to solve any budget issues. If they remove it the money will just go back towards the F-22s. Same with many programs that are being cut.

My GI bill is for my kids now. I will not be touching that. TA is how I will work towards college. If I have to pay for it out of pocket it will not happen.

I do not think it will go away, if it does I will be writting my congressman and trying to get it back.

Rusty Jones
10-25-2012, 12:20 AM
I was always under the impression that the individual services do not allocate TA money themselves, and that the money for that comes directly from DoD, specifically DANTES. The individual servies, however, decide how it's administered.

It's a good program, that not everyone uses anyway.

sandsjames
10-25-2012, 01:06 PM
TA is not going to solve any budget issues. If they remove it the money will just go back towards the F-22s. Same with many programs that are being cut.

My GI bill is for my kids now. I will not be touching that. TA is how I will work towards college. If I have to pay for it out of pocket it will not happen.

I do not think it will go away, if it does I will be writting my congressman and trying to get it back.

It's your decision to give it to your kids. That has nothing to do with the TA. The money is there for your schooling through the GI Bill. If you choose not to use it, so be it. TA is just another benefit members have come to expect as a right. If military members didn't feel entitled to every advantage, we'd all be better off.

Rusty Jones
10-25-2012, 01:31 PM
It's your decision to give it to your kids. That has nothing to do with the TA. The money is there for your schooling through the GI Bill. If you choose not to use it, so be it. TA is just another benefit members have come to expect as a right. If military members didn't feel entitled to every advantage, we'd all be better off.

The only problem is, as of now, education is a de facto requirement for promotion; and it won't be long before it becomes de jure.

Don't know about you, but I'd be damned if I'd let them require me to dig into my own GI Bill.

It's not so much being an entitlement, but if you're going to require me to do something, then YOU pay for it. That's like you being sent TDY and not being given per diem and mileage.

sandsjames
10-25-2012, 01:38 PM
The only problem is, as of now, education is a de facto requirement for promotion; and it won't be long before it becomes de jure.

Don't know about you, but I'd be damned if I'd let them require me to dig into my own GI Bill.

It's not so much being an entitlement, but if you're going to require me to do something, then YOU pay for it. That's like you being sent TDY and not being given per diem and mileage.

It's not even close to the same thing. Getting promoted is your choice, not a requirement. If you choose to go "above and beyond" then it's your responsibility. I'm required to do volunteer in the community in order to get a 5, which is pretty much necessary to get promoted to E-8. Gas money for me to get to the volunteer location isn't provided. I'm required to pass PT. I am the one who has to pay for running shoes. If people are only doing things on the gov's expense, or during duty hours, etc, that is not "above and beyond". Above and beyond is doing it on your own. If the amount of extra money you will receive for retiring at a higher rank isn't good enough for you, then that's your own fault.

BRUWIN
10-31-2012, 02:01 AM
I found out today that I didn't get this job. Bottom line up front is that they said I was waaaay too good looking. Out of 2,000 applicants it was nice to still get an interview I guess. I am pretty disappionted. I' haven't given up on a railroad job yet but I think age is gonna be my downfall. I'm thinking about trucking school as a backup plan too. Somehow someway I gotta find my niche!

CrustySMSgt
10-31-2012, 02:22 AM
I found out today that I didn't get this job. Bottom line up front is that they said I was waaaay too good looking. Out of 2,000 applicants it was nice to still get an interview I guess. I am pretty disappionted. I' haven't given up on a railroad job yet but I think age is gonna be my downfall. I'm thinking about trucking school as a backup plan too. Somehow someway I gotta find my niche!

bummer... don't give up the dream!

I hear there are lots of truck companies recruiting military. I like to drive, but I think that'd be another job that is young man's work and would be hard to jump in to now.

You could always fall back on modelling for GQ.

VOLZZZMAN
10-31-2012, 02:27 AM
I found out today that I didn't get this job. Bottom line up front is that they said I was waaaay too good looking. Out of 2,000 applicants it was nice to still get an interview I guess. I am pretty disappionted. I' haven't given up on a railroad job yet but I think age is gonna be my downfall. I'm thinking about trucking school as a backup plan too. Somehow someway I gotta find my niche!

Trucking companies suck up ex-military, that's a clincher. Being able to live that lifestyle, another question altogether. Some can, some can't.

BRUWIN
10-31-2012, 02:33 AM
I hear there are lots of truck companies recruiting military. I like to drive, but I think that'd be another job that is young man's work and would be hard to jump in to now.

.

Trucking is hard work but it's one of the only occupations that will see shortages in the next few years. It's not a dream job, but it's a backup plan once the hammer comes down on government spending.

Rusty Jones
10-31-2012, 09:04 AM
Trucking companies suck up ex-military, that's a clincher. Being able to live that lifestyle, another question altogether. Some can, some can't.

I'm sure that those truck stop whores make it all worth it.

Greg
10-31-2012, 11:17 AM
Trucking companies suck up ex-military, that's a clincher. Being able to live that lifestyle, another question altogether. Some can, some can't.

Research the trucking company first, there are some that offer good training but the pay and bennies truly suck!
The first couple years you'll be driving your ass off but it's that experience the trucking companies that do pay well are looking for. Remember, you'll be a FNG all over again. I'm not trying to discourage, it's just part of a process and that process is change. As my one social work professor likes to remark, "Change causes friction."

SotaPop
10-31-2012, 12:12 PM
Depends on the skillset and if there are any retired AF in the interview panel. I recently went through four interview panels in one day and education was a huge part of the questions. I explained that I did not have a CCAF due to duty requirements/assignments and they were perfectly fine with my prior AF Associates degree from their local college that the Air Force would not accept. I also educated them on the AF marking down EPRs in the training block for those MSgts who did not have their CCAF. I wish I could have taken a picture on the interview panels faces. Complete utter disbelief of what I was telling them about the markdowns. There was a retired AF SF on the panel who personally verified what I was saying. The CCAF does NOT have any clout in this area anymore and my prior Associate’s degree does. That's reality for you. Now multiply that by how many MSgts are retiring without a CCAF and have markdowns who will be giving the same explanation I did. How do you think that CCAF will be doing in a couple more years of the AF non-sense of marking down people who clearly exceed the standard? Course 14 and Joint SNCO PME had not weight as well for my education overall score from the board.

My advice is to get a Bachelor degree with or without the CCAF.

So did you get the job? Because if I was the retired member on the panel and just listened to the excuses you spewed out and whined about I would not hire you.

You went in the interview and said you where too busy for 20+ years to take 5 classes and took a lower marking in a performance report because of it. It just would not sit right with me. What if I need you to go that extra mile or take a course on your time?

raider8169
11-01-2012, 04:28 AM
It's not even close to the same thing. Getting promoted is your choice, not a requirement. If you choose to go "above and beyond" then it's your responsibility. I'm required to do volunteer in the community in order to get a 5, which is pretty much necessary to get promoted to E-8. Gas money for me to get to the volunteer location isn't provided. I'm required to pass PT. I am the one who has to pay for running shoes. If people are only doing things on the gov's expense, or during duty hours, etc, that is not "above and beyond". Above and beyond is doing it on your own. If the amount of extra money you will receive for retiring at a higher rank isn't good enough for you, then that's your own fault.

Everything the military requires you to have at some point you were issued it. Running shoes, yup issued in basic. You are required to maintain them with your clothing allowance.

Classes during duty hours just doesnt work for me. That is all on my time.

If TA goes away the CCAF requirement needs to as well plus the push for off duty education. TA is something many of us count on, without it I could not afford to take classes. This will only get worse once I start my masters program.

Barberakb
11-01-2012, 04:19 PM
Everything the military requires you to have at some point you were issued it. Running shoes, yup issued in basic. You are required to maintain them with your clothing allowance.

Classes during duty hours just doesnt work for me. That is all on my time.

If TA goes away the CCAF requirement needs to as well plus the push for off duty education. TA is something many of us count on, without it I could not afford to take classes. This will only get worse once I start my masters program.

You don't need TA to finish a CCAF. You can do it without setting foot in a classroom!

SotaPop
11-01-2012, 04:43 PM
Everything the military requires you to have at some point you were issued it. Running shoes, yup issued in basic. You are required to maintain them with your clothing allowance.

Classes during duty hours just doesnt work for me. That is all on my time.

If TA goes away the CCAF requirement needs to as well plus the push for off duty education. TA is something many of us count on, without it I could not afford to take classes. This will only get worse once I start my masters program.

TA is going to be changed, there is no doubt about that.

From a policy stand point every service member is given the 9/11 GI Bill. That is for the service member's education. Why should the AF pay TA?

SomeRandomGuy
11-01-2012, 04:57 PM
TA is going to be changed, there is no doubt about that.

From a policy stand point every service member is given the 9/11 GI Bill. That is for the service member's education. Why should the AF pay TA?

Under the old GI Bill you could not use it until you completed 3 years of service. Do you happen to know if that is the case with Post 9/11? I am just wondering because if that is true removing TA would screw new airmen and leave everyone else basically unaffected.

Robert F. Dorr
11-01-2012, 06:02 PM
Does anyone want to be quoted by name on this?

CrustySMSgt
11-02-2012, 04:56 AM
Research the trucking company first, there are some that offer good training but the pay and bennies truly suck!
The first couple years you'll be driving your ass off but it's that experience the trucking companies that do pay well are looking for. Remember, you'll be a FNG all over again. I'm not trying to discourage, it's just part of a process and that process is change. As my one social work professor likes to remark, "Change causes friction."

But someday you might make it on Ice Road Truckers!!

CrustySMSgt
11-02-2012, 04:58 AM
Does anyone want to be quoted by name on this?

No, but if you've got room on the page for a photo with a blurred out face, that'd be pretty sweet! :)

Look forward to reading about it! (reminds me, I still gotta update my deployed address... relying on the wife to mail me my AFTs means I get them a month late... lol)

BRUWIN
11-02-2012, 08:15 AM
Does anyone want to be quoted by name on this?

I have no problem with it:

Dick Burns
CMSgt, USAF, Ret

SomeRandomGuy
11-02-2012, 12:03 PM
I have no problem with it:

Dick Burns
CMSgt, USAF, Ret

Were we stationed together at Seymour-Johnson or Fort Dix? I remember someone by that name.

sandsjames
11-02-2012, 01:48 PM
Does anyone want to be quoted by name on this?

Yes, you can quote me. Screen name or real name. I'm good either way. If you are more interestest in my opinion, send me an email.

Rainmaker
11-02-2012, 05:23 PM
Were we stationed together at Seymour-Johnson or Fort Dix? I remember someone by that name.

Small world! Were you stationed with Amn Juan Tobanger or SSgt Barry McCochiner?

tiredretiredE7
11-02-2012, 07:20 PM
Does anyone want to be quoted by name on this?

Sure RFD,

mine name is:

Goes Upinya
MSgt, USAF (ret)

giggawatt
11-03-2012, 12:20 AM
Sure RFD,

mine name is:

Toolazy TogetCCAF, I'mAWhiner
MSgt, USAF (ret)

fixed umad?

Blue Warrior
11-03-2012, 12:27 AM
Sure RFD,

mine name is:

Goes Upinya
MSgt, USAF (ret)


Mine is:

Fuk Et Dood
SMSgt, USAF (still here)

Airman of Darkness
11-03-2012, 06:09 AM
So I applied for this job in "Mechanical Management" supervising/performing rail locomotive and railcar maintenance with CSX. I just got through the interview and it turns out this job had over 2,000 applicants and I was selected along with 200 others to go further in the interview process. The interview went well, however, although the interviewer didn't say it I don't think age works in my favor. The school is 9 months long and the pay is only $57,000 while I'm in there and jumps once I finish the training. Whether I make the final cut or not it was still satisfying to know there are opportunities are out there.

So why do I tell you all this? Well, just know that my CCAF Aircraft Maintenance Technology Degree was a player in this and the interviewer liked the fact I had it, despite my Bachelor's Degree. The job actually asked for a Bachelors degree but my previous mechanical experience along with the CCAF that specifically aaplies to a maintenance profession only helped me further.

I probably won't go any further but I least I tried and if I don't get this position then at least I can finally put the thoughts of working for the rail to bed and find something else I may be interested in. With that said, I beg you younger guys to just do the damn speech clep and get your CCAF, it's not entirely worthless if you want to do something related to your current specialty when you get.

WOW YOUR HAVE TO BE JOKEING?!!! who allowed YOU to get a CIVILIAN JOB OPERATING TRAINS WHILE YOU ARE ON ACTIVE DUTY!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

see this is the BULLCRAP that is going on in todays military!! this guy is too FOCUSED ON HIS CCAF AND SECOND JOB and not on the MISSION!

how about you take you train job and SIT ON IT and get back to FOCUSING ON THE WAR FIGHTING MISSION?!? GIT R DUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:flame :flame :flame :flame :flame :flame :flame :flame :flame :flame

CrustySMSgt
11-03-2012, 06:22 AM
WOW YOUR HAVE TO BE JOKEING?!!! who allowed YOU to get a CIVILIAN JOB OPERATING TRAINS WHILE YOU ARE ON ACTIVE DUTY!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

see this is the BULLCRAP that is going on in todays military!! this guy is too FOCUSED ON HIS CCAF AND SECOND JOB and not on the MISSION!

how about you take you train job and SIT ON IT and get back to FOCUSING ON THE WAR FIGHTING MISSION?!? GIT R DUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:flame :flame :flame :flame :flame :flame :flame :flame :flame :flame

I know you were probably too busy re-writing your Penthouse Forum version of your water fountain incident to keep up, but he's retired.

Airman of Darkness
11-03-2012, 06:36 AM
I know you were probably too busy re-writing your Penthouse Forum version of your water fountain incident to keep up, but he's retired.

if you dont believe me about the water fountain THAT IS YOU'RE PROBLEM!!!!!! it happened and THATS ALL THERE IS TO IT! you werent there and you shouldnt care!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOW GIT R DUN and go to a STOP-3 meeting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:flame :flame :flame :flame :flame :flame :flame

Airman of Darkness
11-03-2012, 06:37 AM
I know you were probably too busy re-writing your Penthouse Forum version of your water fountain incident to keep up, but he's retired.

if you dont believe me about the water fountain THAT IS YOU'RE PROBLEM!!!!!! it happened and THATS ALL THERE IS TO IT! you werent there and you shouldnt care!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOW GIT R DUN and go to a STOP-3 meeting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:flame :flame :flame :flame :flame :flame :flame

tiredretiredE7
11-03-2012, 06:03 PM
fixed umad?

No, GigaTwat, I am not mad and once again you show your lack of creativity. By the way, CCAFs have been holding a lot less weight in the interview boards I have been going to when compared to my pre-AF Associates. Most of the interview boards have had prior service AF who knows what a sham the CCAF is compared to in residence college courses. I did ensure 100% of my subordinates earned their CCAF on the way to a Bachelor’s degree. Can you say the same? Didn't think so and aren't you in one of the careerfields about to be replaced by a webpage?

sandsjames
11-03-2012, 06:24 PM
Didn't think so and aren't you in one of the careerfields about to be replaced by a webpage?Yeah, the ol' famous CE career field done through a web page.

BRUWIN
11-03-2012, 11:36 PM
Most of the interview boards have had prior service AF who knows what a sham the CCAF is compared to in residence college courses.

Such a sham that a prior AF interviewer would probably ask why the individual couldn't be bothered to get one...unless of course he's illiterate.

tiredretiredE7
11-03-2012, 11:56 PM
Such a sham that a prior AF interviewer would probably ask why the individual couldn't be bothered to get one...unless of course he's illiterate.

Bruwin,

That question was asked and I was ready with the answer of "Two primary duty positions (one of which was a CE duty) and 5 additional duties". Our commander gathered the requirements for each sections inspection preparation and I had the most time required and was in a one deep slot. I passed my inspections while balancing classified communications for a COCOM operation on top of the inspection preparations. I was also the only certified BIT instructor for my installation. My last two EPRs easily qualify me for two very different jobs and I displayed the capability to be diversified for my last two years. Exec summary: Two primary jobs, the most required for inspection prep while going through retirement BS. My university also dropped my CAPSTONE course on me for my last two months on AD.

Then they asked me why I applied for an entry level job with all of my education, training and experience. I caused the whole interview process (4 interview panels) to be delayed 45 minutes. And no, I did not get the job because I did not have the state required class.
So the CCAF would have been pointless since I already had an Associate’s degree and would have made me look like a professional student as well as showing a lack of education progression. I just love AF people with multiple CCAFs and have not completed a Bachelor’s degree. These people are the E9s of today’s AF.

tiredretiredE7
11-04-2012, 12:11 AM
Yeah, the ol' famous CE career field done through a web page.

Most of EM is done through a webpage and the rest of CE is being contracted out to the local civilian industry. The FD is also mostly civilianized. Do you want me to keep going about CE? I would rather CE remain AD and not be replaced but it is.

CrustySMSgt
03-02-2013, 10:45 AM
Bru,

Come on out to Peterson, BNSF is interviewing!!



EVENT: BNSF Railway
Job Fair/Employment Information Session
PETERSON AFB & SCHRIEVER AFB
JOINT TAP EMPLOYMENT EVENT
DATE: Wednesday, 13 March 2013 (8AM – 10AM)
LOCATION: Peterson Airman & Family Readiness Center,
Bldg. 350 Rm 1203
REGISTRATION: 719-556-6141

Are you interested in a lifelong career? BNSF offers a work environment where safety is #1, competitive pay and benefits, on-the-job training and career advancement!

Positions we’re hiring for:
 Mechanic Diesel Engines
 Railcar Repair (Carman)
 Electrician Diesel Engine - Locomotive
 Conductor Trainee

Skills Needed:
 Welders
 Mechanics
 Electricians
 And More!...

ADDITIONAL INFORMATION:
BNSF is looking for Veterans to fill positions for the following geographical locations ND, SD, MT, WY, NE (Alliance), WI. More information will be provided during the information session on 13 March. OPEN TO DOD ID CARD HOLDER. *Interested active duty veterans MUST either be on “Transition Leave” or completely separated from the military by 1 July 2013. SPOUSES WELCOME!

BNSF is proud to be an EEO/AA employer M/F/D/V.

Arod2012
03-04-2013, 05:05 AM
Is this job at Hill AFB? I know they have a repair depot for air force rail engines.

The locomotives at Hill aren't Air Force, they are Army...the Air Force did have one, but it has been officially decommissioned.

JD2780
03-04-2013, 11:10 AM
Such a sham that a prior AF interviewer would probably ask why the individual couldn't be bothered to get one...unless of course he's illiterate.

A decent answer would be because I was pursuing a bachelors degree in a different field since I had already been given all the knowledge available for my AFSC. You since after recieving your 5 level its only some genEds and a speech, I spent 4 yrs as a formal school house instructor, giving instruction ranging from 30 minutes to 4 hrs, but no credit given. How does a humanities class make me a better TACP? Simple, it doesnt.

giggawatt
03-05-2013, 07:23 AM
A decent answer would be because I was pursuing a bachelors degree in a different field since I had already been given all the knowledge available for my AFSC. You since after recieving your 5 level its only some genEds and a speech, I spent 4 yrs as a formal school house instructor, giving instruction ranging from 30 minutes to 4 hrs, but no credit given. How does a humanities class make me a better TACP? Simple, it doesnt.

Yes it does. :fencing

BRUWIN
03-05-2013, 11:33 AM
A decent answer would be because I was pursuing a bachelors degree in a different field since I had already been given all the knowledge available for my AFSC. You since after recieving your 5 level its only some genEds and a speech, I spent 4 yrs as a formal school house instructor, giving instruction ranging from 30 minutes to 4 hrs, but no credit given. How does a humanities class make me a better TACP? Simple, it doesnt.

All I'm saying is if you have any desire for E-8...and maybe you didn't and that's fine...don't complain about the CCAF requirement. The rule has been out for like 5 years now and people with Bachelor's Degrees STILL complain about it.

JD2780
03-05-2013, 12:20 PM
All I'm saying is if you have any desire for E-8...and maybe you didn't and that's fine...don't complain about the CCAF requirement. The rule has been out for like 5 years now and people with Bachelor's Degrees STILL complain about it.

Because its a stupid requirement that doesnt prove youre a better leader or have more knowledge about your AFSC. If the AF wants us to have better speech give us more time in ALS for speeches. Then the AF wont have to pay more in TA for that class. I did at one point have some desire to make E-8 and I was going to get my CCAF because of it. However, that still didnt change my opinion of it being completely stupid and worthless. Then I got even more tired of the AF and decided 20 and out. Only make E-7 and press on from there. Then the AF decided because of some headaches I couldnt be a TACP anymore. Yes, I'm still a little disgruntled over the AFs handling my medical crap. Especially since I've recently had a few flight docs look over my stuff as a courtesy and I was told I got screwed over.

Went way off track there. My bad.

SotaPop
03-05-2013, 08:49 PM
Because its a stupid requirement that doesnt prove youre a better leader or have more knowledge about your AFSC. If the AF wants us to have better speech give us more time in ALS for speeches. Then the AF wont have to pay more in TA for that class. I did at one point have some desire to make E-8 and I was going to get my CCAF because of it. However, that still didnt change my opinion of it being completely stupid and worthless. Then I got even more tired of the AF and decided 20 and out. Only make E-7 and press on from there. Then the AF decided because of some headaches I couldnt be a TACP anymore. Yes, I'm still a little disgruntled over the AFs handling my medical crap. Especially since I've recently had a few flight docs look over my stuff as a courtesy and I was told I got screwed over.

Went way off track there. My bad.

I work with a guy who has a degree in set design, it’s really beneficial!!

CCAF is a standard, a way to judge everyone’s education level on a level playing field. If your degree is so worthwhile you should be able to pass a CLEP without a problem.

DWWSWWD
03-05-2013, 11:18 PM
Bruwin,

That question was asked and I was ready with the answer of "Two primary duty positions (one of which was a CE duty) and 5 additional duties". Our commander gathered the requirements for each sections inspection preparation and I had the most time required and was in a one deep slot. I passed my inspections while balancing classified communications for a COCOM operation on top of the inspection preparations. I was also the only certified BIT instructor for my installation. My last two EPRs easily qualify me for two very different jobs and I displayed the capability to be diversified for my last two years. Exec summary: Two primary jobs, the most required for inspection prep while going through retirement BS. My university also dropped my CAPSTONE course on me for my last two months on AD.

Then they asked me why I applied for an entry level job with all of my education, training and experience. I caused the whole interview process (4 interview panels) to be delayed 45 minutes. And no, I did not get the job because I did not have the state required class.
So the CCAF would have been pointless since I already had an Associate’s degree and would have made me look like a professional student as well as showing a lack of education progression. I just love AF people with multiple CCAFs and have not completed a Bachelor’s degree. These people are the E9s of today’s AF.

Ever see those guys that are so stressed because they have so much going on? They look like they are about to spin themselves into butter? I've got a self inspection going on, I had to do infosec training, we have 4 fire extinguishers about to expire and I have an EPR that is due in 2 months. How do you handle it all? From my little bit of interviewing and hiring.... If you spend 15 minutes telling me why you didn't have time to CLEP speech, I'm not hiring you. I'm not. There is only one real answer. You didn't value it. That's OK. But you weren't too busy. The opposite of that guy is the guy that is cool as a cucumber, but you know has 1,000 things going on. He's taking to you like you are the only thing in the world right then. Who do you want working for you. More love, less drama.

JD2780
03-06-2013, 03:18 AM
I work with a guy who has a degree in set design, it’s really beneficial!!

CCAF is a standard, a way to judge everyone’s education level on a level playing field. If your degree is so worthwhile you should be able to pass a CLEP without a problem.

Why cant they value a bachelors?

imported_DannyJ
03-06-2013, 03:06 PM
Why cant they value a bachelors?

IDK. This kills me. I have a BBA and my CCAF and still get pressured to "expand my toolbox". Here's a bullet:

Has both bachelor's and CCAF--F*CK OFF.

SotaPop
03-06-2013, 03:34 PM
Why cant they value a bachelors?

Key work "Value". Where do you draw the line? Are foreign schools the same as US schools? What about nationally accredited verses regionally accredited?

I had a school in Colorado offer me a Doctorate in Aircraft Maintenance for the one-time price of $3,500 based on experience only. Should that be valued?

imported_KnuckleDragger
03-06-2013, 03:39 PM
I had a school in Colorado offer me a Doctorate in Aircraft Maintenance for the one-time price of $3,500 based on experience only. Should that be valued?

Colorado ehh?

http://www.polishtheconsole.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/shut-up-and-take-my-money.jpg

imported_KnuckleDragger
03-06-2013, 03:41 PM
I would love to strut around base like my sh!t doesn't stink, because I have a Doctorate as TSgt!

tiredretiredE7
03-06-2013, 04:19 PM
Ever see those guys that are so stressed because they have so much going on? They look like they are about to spin themselves into butter? I've got a self inspection going on, I had to do infosec training, we have 4 fire extinguishers about to expire and I have an EPR that is due in 2 months. How do you handle it all? From my little bit of interviewing and hiring.... If you spend 15 minutes telling me why you didn't have time to CLEP speech, I'm not hiring you. I'm not. There is only one real answer. You didn't value it. That's OK. But you weren't too busy. The opposite of that guy is the guy that is cool as a cucumber, but you know has 1,000 things going on. He's taking to you like you are the only thing in the world right then. Who do you want working for you. More love, less drama.

Interesting. "More love, less drama". This is a new motto. Maybe the AF should adopt it. I recently completed my Bachelor’s degree. Most people did not know how much I had going on except for the Chief and CC since we would see each other in the building 7 days a week.

I would want the individual who put the team and subordinates before themselves working for me. If the individual did not have a "should" requirement due to an administrative issue but met and vastly exceeded all of the requirements then I would NOT mark down their EPR and deny decs to that individual. However, the current AF climate of careerism is producing a lot of NCOs/SCNOs who are only out for themselves and not for the team or subordinates. I could not look myself in the mirror and try to justify a severe failure in leadership with "that's the way the AF is now, its today’s AF".

JD2780
03-06-2013, 04:25 PM
Key work "Value". Where do you draw the line? Are foreign schools the same as US schools? What about nationally accredited verses regionally accredited?

I had a school in Colorado offer me a Doctorate in Aircraft Maintenance for the one-time price of $3,500 based on experience only. Should that be valued?

Well if they'll accept the same degree to commission an officer they should accept it to get an SRE. I dont know. Maybe I'm thinking to logically for the AF.

BRUWIN
03-06-2013, 08:53 PM
IDK. This kills me. I have a BBA and my CCAF and still get pressured to "expand my toolbox".

This is why I took 30 years to get my BA. I had an education bullet for every year. You gotta make the system work for you if you don't want higher degrees.

imported_DannyJ
03-06-2013, 09:55 PM
This is why I took 30 years to get my BA. I had an education bullet for every year. You gotta make the system work for you if you don't want higher degrees.

I view education a bit like prison. I did my damn time, now leave me the f*** alone!

imported_CLSE
03-06-2013, 10:04 PM
Ever see those guys that are so stressed because they have so much going on? They look like they are about to spin themselves into butter? I've got a self inspection going on, I had to do infosec training, we have 4 fire extinguishers about to expire and I have an EPR that is due in 2 months. How do you handle it all? From my little bit of interviewing and hiring.... If you spend 15 minutes telling me why you didn't have time to CLEP speech, I'm not hiring you. I'm not. There is only one real answer. You didn't value it. That's OK. But you weren't too busy. The opposite of that guy is the guy that is cool as a cucumber, but you know has 1,000 things going on. He's taking to you like you are the only thing in the world right then. Who do you want working for you. More love, less drama.

So what if the guy who's spun up tells you that he didn't take the speech CLEP because in his set of priorities, it ranked after picking up dog sh*t?

Would you hire him for at least being honest?

And I don't see how you can, without any other knowledge of the individual, claim that they just weren't too busy.

I'm working on an engineering degree and in the course of that, I have, to date, taken 8 math courses ranging from general math to Calculus III. You'd think that CCAF would take at least one of those, but no, they won't accept any of them, for various reasons.

The local Navy education office has been consolidated to another base and to take a CLEP locally at the community college will cost me $140 out of my pocket. The next nearest military base is an hour drive away, once you figure time off from work and gas there and back, it will cost me at least that much as taking it at the community college.

And, just like I tell my wife now, guess what will happen when I finish my CCAF degree? Not a damn thing. No better job, no pay raise in my current job.

So, is that that speech CLEP really supposed to be so important that I should go through the ass-pain required to get it any time soon?

And don't tell me that the degree is really important, because based on what I've experienced and heard from others, the vast majority of employers don't really care whether your degree is in engineering or the history of lesbian albino pygmys of the Amazon.

What that tells me is that a prospective employer has so little respect for me and my abilities that, regardless of my education and experience, they expect me to waste 4+ years of my life and a significant chunk of money that could be put to better use to get a degree that they really don't give two sh*ts about.

imported_KnuckleDragger
03-06-2013, 10:11 PM
And don't tell me that the degree is really important, because based on what I've experienced and heard from others, the vast majority of employers don't really care whether your degree is in engineering or the history of lesbian albino pygmys of the Amazon.

Please let us know how that pans out for you.

imported_CLSE
03-07-2013, 02:33 PM
Please let us know how that pans out for you.

Huh? You either quoted the wrong part or you lost me...

FLAPS
03-07-2013, 03:19 PM
A CCAF degree (term used loosely) is a requirement for a Sr Rater endorsement. That's its ONLY value, period.

Sperry1989
03-07-2013, 03:36 PM
A CCAF degree (term used loosely) is a requirement for a Sr Rater endorsement. That's its ONLY value, period.

Wrong answer. Wikipedia offers the following definition:

"The Community College of the Air Force (CCAF) is a federal program offered by the United States Air Force which grants two year Associate of Applied Science (AAS) degrees in association with Air University.

The CCAF is accredited by the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools through Air University."

I could go on and highlight the importance of this program to our first term airman who separate after four years of military service, but I think my point would fall on deaf ears.

SotaPop
03-07-2013, 04:07 PM
A CCAF degree (term used loosely) is a requirement for a Sr Rater endorsement. That's its ONLY value, period.

And you speak for every Air Force member? Did you read the whole thread? I would start at the first post :crazy

Sperry1989
03-07-2013, 04:12 PM
A CCAF degree (term used loosely) is a requirement for a Sr Rater endorsement. That's its ONLY value, period.

More from Wikipedia

"In June 2007 Air University announced a new program where four year colleges accept the entire value (60 credits) of the CCAF Associates degree towards a Bachelor degree, requiring only 60 more credits (typically upper division, core classes). This program is called the Air University Associate-To-Baccalaureate Cooperative. It has been publicized as a convenient way for an Airman to complete their 4 year degree. It has also served to boost the desirability of a CCAF degree, as there is a notion among the enlisted members that a CCAF Associate degree only holds value in the Air Force community. As of October 2009 the AU-ABC program included 42 civilian colleges and universities offering 209 bachelor's degree programs. Thirty-six of the ABC schools hold regional accreditation, and six hold national accreditation through the Distance Education and Training Council. For additional information on accreditation please refer to the Council for Higher Education Accreditation (CHEA) or U.S. Department of Education websites."

USMC0341
03-07-2013, 04:19 PM
Wrong answer. Wikipedia offers the following definition:

"The Community College of the Air Force (CCAF) is a federal program offered by the United States Air Force which grants two year Associate of Applied Science (AAS) degrees in association with Air University.

The CCAF is accredited by the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools through Air University."

I could go on and highlight the importance of this program to our first term airman who separate after four years of military service, but I think my point would fall on deaf ears.

Did they teach you to use wikipedia as a reliable source?

Sperry1989
03-07-2013, 04:29 PM
I should have taken the time to search and use the AU website or other more reliable source since this seems to really matter to you. Please forgive me.

Here is a reliable source: http://www.au.af.mil/au/ccaf/

imported_DannyJ
03-07-2013, 11:55 PM
Ccaf is the enlisted man's herpes.

Cannot give anymore positive rep.

FLAPS
03-08-2013, 11:26 PM
Wrong answer. Wikipedia offers the following definition:

"The Community College of the Air Force (CCAF) is a federal program offered by the United States Air Force which grants two year Associate of Applied Science (AAS) degrees in association with Air University.

The CCAF is accredited by the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools through Air University."

I could go on and highlight the importance of this program to our first term airman who separate after four years of military service, but I think my point would fall on deaf ears.

I "earned" my CCAF in 1995. It did nothing for me. The new AU program is a good improvement though...as long as a four-year school will accept the credits. NOT the case when I got my Bachelors in the late 90s. Still, I think the AF can kill the CCAF. Plenty of other options available these days.

grimreaper
03-08-2013, 11:39 PM
I "earned" my CCAF in 1995. It did nothing for me. The new AU program is a good improvement though...as long as a four-year school will accept the credits. NOT the case when I got my Bachelors in the late 90s. Still, I think the AF can kill the CCAF. Plenty of other options available these days.

If you kill the CCAF, you're essentially killing the AU-ABC program as well. The main reason why four-year schools will accept the credits is because CCAF has a regional accreditation. Get rid of that, good luck getting any legitimate four-year schools to accept credits from a school that does not have an established, accredited program. For that matter, you could also see less and less colleges accepting any military training or schooling even for a Associate's degree if they didn't come from an accredited program.

FLAPS
03-09-2013, 01:52 PM
Does anyone here with a CCAF honestly believe they received a level of education on par with a brick and mortar community college? For my CCAF I took one correspondence class (VHS tape and book), and CLEP/DANTES the rest.

CrustySMSgt
03-09-2013, 02:06 PM
Does anyone here with a CCAF honestly believe they received a level of education on par with a brick and mortar community college? For my CCAF I took one correspondence class (VHS tape and book), and CLEP/DANTES the rest.

My wife is attending the local community college using her GI bill. Hearing the stories she's telling me, yes.
May be a sad testament to the state of education as a whole.

sandsjames
03-09-2013, 02:12 PM
My wife is attending the local community college using her GI bill. Hearing the stories she's telling me, yes.
May be a sad testament to the state of education as a whole.So true. Colleges are no longer about education. They are a business that's interested in nothing other than making money. The push on the importance of college over the last 20 years has fooled people into thinking the need it. If they think they need it, they will pay ANY amount of money to get the degree, no matter how broke it makes them. It's one of the biggest rackets in the country. Smart by the colleges, dumb by those who think the degree is the golden ticket to success.

Airborne
03-09-2013, 02:19 PM
So true. Colleges are no longer about education. They are a business that's interested in nothing other than making money. The push on the importance of college over the last 20 years has fooled people into thinking the need it. If they think they need it, they will pay ANY amount of money to get the degree, no matter how broke it makes them. It's one of the biggest rackets in the country. Smart by the colleges, dumb by those who think the degree is the golden ticket to success.

I think the education/student loan bubble will bust just like the housing bubble. Not sure when.

sandsjames
03-09-2013, 02:29 PM
I think the education/student loan bubble will bust just like the housing bubble. Not sure when. Just saw a report about 5 minutes ago related to this. It mentioned the unemployment rate is down to 7.7% (good news) and that this is happening because more jobs are being created for people without degrees (even high school dropouts). With the rate of unemployed college grads between age 24-30 being over 50%, hopefully this will lead to colleges having to become more competitive in the future.

As far as the loan bubble, I think it's already here. The government is already bailing out certain people with huge loan debt.

tiredretiredE7
03-09-2013, 02:29 PM
I "earned" my CCAF in 1995. It did nothing for me. The new AU program is a good improvement though...as long as a four-year school will accept the credits. NOT the case when I got my Bachelors in the late 90s. Still, I think the AF can kill the CCAF. Plenty of other options available these days.

This is my first recommendation. The CCAF is the low hanging fruit. The other branches don't have their own CCAF and neither should the AF.

technomage1
03-09-2013, 02:31 PM
This is my first recommendation. The CCAF is the low hanging fruit. The other branches don't have their own CCAF and neither should the AF.

Agree. There was a time and place for it. But established, reputable schools are online now. The CCAF can go the way of the dodo.

Rainmaker
03-09-2013, 03:14 PM
Just saw a report about 5 minutes ago related to this. It mentioned the unemployment rate is down to 7.7% (good news) and that this is happening because more jobs are being created for people without degrees (even high school dropouts). With the rate of unemployed college grads between age 24-30 being over 50%, hopefully this will lead to colleges having to become more competitive in the future.

As far as the loan bubble, I think it's already here. The government is already bailing out certain people with huge loan debt.

The Six Contradictions of Socialism in the United States of America:

America is capitalist and greedy—yet half the population is subsidized.

Half of the population is subsidized—yet they think they are victims.

They think they are victims—yet their representatives run the government.

Their representatives run the government—yet the poor keep getting poorer.

The poor keep getting poorer—yet they have things that people in other countries only dream about.

They have things that people in other countries only dream about—yet they want America to be more like those other countries.

DWWSWWD
03-09-2013, 03:15 PM
Does anyone here with a CCAF honestly believe they received a level of education on par with a brick and mortar community college? For my CCAF I took one correspondence class (VHS tape and book), and CLEP/DANTES the rest. Absolutely. Remember the components of the CCAF include your tech training. In my case, the year of electronics training was the most intense school I'd attended before or since. My undergraduated degree is from Embry Riddle at a brick and mortar location. Quality of classes varied wildly as I'm sure it done at any school. For TR7, the other branches don't have 2 year degrees because the quality of training and instructors are not such that it could receive and maintain accreditation.

FLAPS
03-09-2013, 03:18 PM
Absolutely. Remember the components of the CCAF include your tech training.

For my tech training, I rightfully received a Certificate of Completion. College "degree" credit is a little over the top...

sandsjames
03-09-2013, 03:20 PM
The Six Contradictions of Socialism in the United States of America:

America is capitalist and greedy—yet half the population is subsidized.

Half of the population is subsidized—yet they think they are victims.

They think they are victims—yet their representatives run the government.

Their representatives run the government—yet the poor keep getting poorer.

The poor keep getting poorer—yet they have things that people in other countries only dream about.

They have things that people in other countries only dream about—yet they want America to be more like those other countries.

I really like this.

35% of new taxes will affect those who make less than $250k. The middle class are bitching about these new taxes and not being able to afford it. These people who are bitching are the same ones who voted for the administration who put these taxes in place. Time for people to shut up and pay their taxes. You get what you deserve.

FLAPS
03-09-2013, 03:20 PM
The push on the importance of college over the last 20 years has fooled people into thinking the need it.

When the jobs I'm applying for stop asking for a college degree, then I'll start realizing how much time/money I wasted to get my degrees.

FLAPS
03-09-2013, 03:27 PM
The Six Contradictions of Socialism in the United States of America:

America is capitalist and greedy—yet half the population is subsidized.

Half of the population is subsidized—yet they think they are victims.

They think they are victims—yet their representatives run the government.

Their representatives run the government—yet the poor keep getting poorer.

The poor keep getting poorer—yet they have things that people in other countries only dream about.

They have things that people in other countries only dream about—yet they want America to be more like those other countries.

Yep...and many of these same "victims" spend their weekends on their recliners with a "smoke" hanging out of their mouths watching "Honey Boo Boo" on their 52" LED TVs, while surfing Facebook on their smartphones with one hand while holding a Bud Light in the other.

DWWSWWD
03-09-2013, 03:28 PM
For my tech training, I rightfully received a Certificate of Completion. College "degree" credit is a little over the top... In addition to the beautiful certificate, suitable for framing, you received college credits toward core requirements. That's why my CCAF is in electronics, JD's is in killing folks and yours is in being a pain in the ass. Just busting your chops, FLAPS.

FLAPS
03-09-2013, 03:33 PM
In addition to the beautiful certificate, suitable for framing, you received college credits toward core requirements. That's why my CCAF is in electronics, JD's is in killing folks and yours is in being a pain in the ass. Just busting your chops, FLAPS.

I think mine states "Aircraft Maintenance Technology." Try showing that to an airline HR person. First thing they'll say is, "that's a cutsie name for a degree, so do you have an A&P License?"

sandsjames
03-09-2013, 03:36 PM
When the jobs I'm applying for stop asking for a college degree, then I'll start realizing how much time/money I wasted to get my degrees.

Not saying that degrees are useless. There are several jobs that require them. However, people need to stop thinking that they are going to get a job because they have a degree. A degree is not, as I said, a golden ticket. I think many believe it is. By the time they realize it's not, they are $250k in debt. College has a purpose. It is NOT for everyone and there will never be enough jobs for everyone with a degree.

technomage1
03-09-2013, 03:51 PM
Not saying that degrees are useless. There are several jobs that require them. However, people need to stop thinking that they are going to get a job because they have a degree. A degree is not, as I said, a golden ticket. I think many believe it is. By the time they realize it's not, they are $250k in debt. College has a purpose. It is NOT for everyone and there will never be enough jobs for everyone with a degree.

Somebody has to serve me my fries. Not knocking anyone with that job, just saying we can't all be in the executive suites.

sandsjames
03-09-2013, 04:04 PM
Somebody has to serve me my fries. Not knocking anyone with that job, just saying we can't all be in the executive suites.

Exactly. That's what annoyed me with the TAP class. EVERYTHING was directed towards a corporate job. All the interview stuff, resumes, etc. Nothing about getting a job working at Home Depot. I guess we are all "professionals" who want an office job. Anything less is below me, I'm sure.

Shrike
03-19-2013, 04:03 PM
Exactly. That's what annoyed me with the TAP class. EVERYTHING was directed towards a corporate job. All the interview stuff, resumes, etc. Nothing about getting a job working at Home Depot. I guess we are all "professionals" who want an office job. Anything less is below me, I'm sure.

Seconded. TAP was an utter waste of time unless you were looking for a full-time, high stress, big money job starting the day you began terminal leave. The only good thing about TAP was that it kept me out of my soul-sucking job for three days.

JD2780
03-19-2013, 04:13 PM
Seconded. TAP was an utter waste of time unless you were looking for a full-time, high stress, big money job starting the day you began terminal leave. The only good thing about TAP was that it kept me out of my soul-sucking job for three days.

I did benefit from some of the briefs. However, you're right about the corporate job mentality. I was asking questions about civil service jobs like fire fighter and cop. They couldnt really answer those at all.

Pullinteeth
03-19-2013, 05:00 PM
Yep...and many of these same "victims" spend their weekends on their recliners with a "smoke" hanging out of their mouths watching "Honey Boo Boo" on their 52" LED TVs, while surfing Facebook on their smartphones with one hand while holding a Bud Light in the other.

While those of us working to pay for all their crap sit on a beanbag watching Pawn Stars on our 38" CRT TVs, while talking on a flip-phone while holding a PBR in the other (not that PBR is bad...it is yummy AND cheap)...

giggawatt
03-20-2013, 07:30 AM
Does anyone here with a CCAF honestly believe they received a level of education on par with a brick and mortar community college? For my CCAF I took one correspondence class (VHS tape and book), and CLEP/DANTES the rest.

In a way, yes, because I only CLEP'd 2 gen ed classes. The classes I took in residence were good to ease me into the routine of extra homework when I started my bachelor's program. It's really all in how you approach it.

FLAPS
03-20-2013, 08:51 AM
In a way, yes, because I only CLEP'd 2 gen ed classes. The classes I took in residence were good to ease me into the routine of extra homework when I started my bachelor's program. It's really all in how you approach it.

Yes, you're right. This is why I always encourage people to take actual classes when working towards their CCAF degrees. Of course, that's a hard sell now that you can't get TA.

Robert F. Dorr
03-20-2013, 10:36 AM
Talked recently to a Guardsman who has an MBA from a respected state university but cannot be considered for advancement to the next level without CCAF.

Somebody want to explain this to me, please? Thank you.

giggawatt
03-20-2013, 10:54 AM
Talked recently to a Guardsman who has an MBA from a respected state university but cannot be considered for advancement to the next level without CCAF.

Somebody want to explain this to me, please? Thank you.

This has been discussed many times. Nobody can actually explain it. However, the popular argument is why can't he knock out the one class or do the work to get the appropriate transcripts to obtain the CCAF if he really wants the advancement?

It is silly but if you have an MBA you shouldn't be much left to do in order to meet the requirements set by the AF.

JD2780
03-20-2013, 11:07 AM
This has been discussed many times. Nobody can actually explain it. However, the popular argument is why can't he knock out the one class or do the work to get the appropriate transcripts to obtain the CCAF if he really wants the advancement?

It is silly but if you have an MBA you shouldn't be much left to do in order to meet the requirements set by the AF.

He is eligible for Maj, but not SMSgt. Silly.

TVANSCOT
03-20-2013, 11:16 AM
Yes, you're right. This is why I always encourage people to take actual classes when working towards their CCAF degrees. Of course, that's a hard sell now that you can't get TA.

When I finished my BA degree I was still one class short of my CCAF degree because they would not accept a 300 level class in social sciences, so I had to take a 100 level art class to make up for it. A waste of my time and your money.

JD2780
03-20-2013, 12:04 PM
When I finished my BA degree I was still one class short of my CCAF degree because they would not accept a 300 level class in social sciences, so I had to take a 100 level art class to make up for it. A waste of my time and your money.

They wouldnt take the math credit for my buddy's class either. He took a high level math class at purdue. He said screw it and decided to retire with no no retirement medal because he didnt have a CCAF. Thats cool, multiple BSMs with V, PH, no retirement medal. So he refused the retirement ceremony and instead had a bunch of buddies to his house. No CCAF!!! Then it doesnt matter what you did the other 23 yrs. You're a shitbag.

FLAPS
03-20-2013, 01:03 PM
-1........

Thanks asshole

sandsjames
03-20-2013, 01:54 PM
Talked recently to a Guardsman who has an MBA from a respected state university but cannot be considered for advancement to the next level without CCAF.

Somebody want to explain this to me, please? Thank you.

Bob,

I explained this to you the last time you asked the question. Maybe you didn't read it or maybe you are just trying to make a point of how ridiculous the idea is by asking the question again. Either way, I don't feel like answering again.

Shrike
03-20-2013, 02:08 PM
Bob,

I explained this to you the last time you asked the question. Maybe you didn't read it or maybe you are just trying to make a point of how ridiculous the idea is by asking the question again. Either way, I don't feel like answering again.
I plan on answering him. But I'm going to wait for about four or five years, dig up this thread out of the archives, and reply.

:biggrin

sandsjames
03-20-2013, 02:14 PM
I plan on answering him. But I'm going to wait for about four or five years, dig up this thread out of the archives, and reply.

:biggrin

Nice move. That's probably the next time he'll view it anyway. I've noticed he has a habit of posting in a thread then not returning to see responses for at least a month or so.

RobotChicken
03-20-2013, 06:17 PM
Bob will not "be around" in 4 to 5 years.
:tea
:sadThat 'Tough 'ole Bird' will outlast US!!!! As for his 'handle and avatar'.....time Will tell if it gets hijacked TOO! :mmph

Robert F. Dorr
03-20-2013, 08:52 PM
Bob will not "be around" in 4 to 5 years.
:tea

I'm going to put this in my folder labeled March 20, 2018.

Robert F. Dorr
03-20-2013, 08:53 PM
Bob,

I explained this to you the last time you asked the question. Maybe you didn't read it or maybe you are just trying to make a point of how ridiculous the idea is by asking the question again. Either way, I don't feel like answering again.

No. Never asked before. Couldn't have.

imported_DannyJ
03-20-2013, 09:32 PM
No. Never asked before. Couldn't have.

Yes.
You.
Did.

Robert F. Dorr
03-20-2013, 10:04 PM
Yes.
You.
Did.

Oh. I did? I wonder how I knew the question was going to come to my attention for the first time, ever, today?

sandsjames
03-21-2013, 01:59 PM
Oh. I did? I wonder how I knew the question was going to come to my attention for the first time, ever, today?


Still trying to understand why they have a rule that having CCAF makes you a better candidate for promotion. Why?


The reasoning is that the CCAF is directly related to your career field (questionable) while a higher degree is not. This means that, in their eyes, if you get your CCAF you are trying to better yourself in relationship to your career while if you get the higher degree which, in most cases, doesn't relate specifically to one's career field, you are doing it for personal reasons. The justification is that they'd rather have somebody earn a CCAF because that shows dedication to the Air Force, not to yourself.

Here you go.

imported_CLSE
03-21-2013, 02:10 PM
Somebody has to serve me my fries. Not knocking anyone with that job, just saying we can't all be in the executive suites.

And you point out another massive change over the last twenty years that ties in to all of this - Working at McDonalds/Burger King/etc used to be almost exclusively after-school work for kids to earn some money and get some work experience. The grown-ups who worked there for a living were the exception and most were managers.

Now, any job there can be a "career".

imported_DannyJ
03-21-2013, 11:26 PM
In my day, work knowledge outweighed book knowledge.

Must have been nice. Work knowledge doesn't matter for jack shit anymore. Frakin' bake sales and degrees that have all of nothing to do with your field matter more than the ability to actually complete the work the USAF pays you for.

Blue Warrior
03-22-2013, 09:49 PM
No one cares about the good ole days oldtimer.

I miss you. :-(

RobotChicken
03-22-2013, 10:01 PM
I miss you. :-(

:lever On 'TDY' but Not forgotten'...:brick:suspicious:croc

Robert F. Dorr
03-23-2013, 12:20 AM
And you point out another massive change over the last twenty years that ties in to all of this - Working at McDonalds/Burger King/etc used to be almost exclusively after-school work for kids to earn some money and get some work experience. The grown-ups who worked there for a living were the exception and most were managers.

Now, any job there can be a "career".

Not sure why the word career is in quotes or who is being quoted. McDonald's spent huge amounts of money designing their outlets so that anyone learn any function quickly, making it unnecessary to retain employees for a long period of time. Having a high turnover keeps employee wages at a minimum.

sandsjames
03-23-2013, 11:58 AM
Not sure why the word career is in quotes or who is being quoted. McDonald's spent huge amounts of money designing their outlets so that anyone learn any function quickly, making it unnecessary to retain employees for a long period of time. Having a high turnover keeps employee wages at a minimum.

Smart business...

But why no acknowledgement of the post above showing proof of your repeated asking of the same question you deny ever asking?

imported_CLSE
03-25-2013, 04:01 PM
Not sure why the word career is in quotes or who is being quoted. McDonald's spent huge amounts of money designing their outlets so that anyone learn any function quickly, making it unnecessary to retain employees for a long period of time. Having a high turnover keeps employee wages at a minimum.

Because, as you point out, McDonald's is a high-turnover employer, but they (and many other high-turnover employers) now advertise themselves as places where an employee can have a career. They never used to advertise themselves as being that type of work.

It used to be that, at least where I grew up, other than a store manager, able-bodied adults who had graduated from school (whatever level) got jobs at McDonalds to supplement their regular income. If you were the bread-winner and McDonalds, Wal-Mart, etc was and would remain your primary and regular employment, you were a loser.

Now, those employers try to give the appearance that jobs with them are just as good as any other job to remove the stigma for people with college degrees who can't find work somewhere else.

Sucks for the people who got talked into believing that the really needed that liberal arts degree, only to end up with a $50,000 bill and back at McDonalds making just as much as when they worked there during high school.

Works out great for the Keynsian economics-loving professor who will tell the world how great the economy is doing because the $50,000 the kid spent on the degree added to the GDP and the employment number went up by 1.

Barberakb
03-26-2013, 04:29 AM
Smart business...

But why no acknowledgement of the post above showing proof of your repeated asking of the same question you deny ever asking?

Because Bob is one of those people that can't stand to be wrong.

thread_cop
03-26-2013, 12:36 PM
Sandsjames was banned for a reason. Take care.


Indeed he was.

Luvnlife
04-05-2013, 04:50 PM
I have only read the first 3 pages of this thread and I will go ahead and say that I like it!

BRUWIN
04-05-2013, 05:12 PM
Must have been nice. Work knowledge doesn't matter for jack shit anymore. Frakin' bake sales and degrees that have all of nothing to do with your field matter more than the ability to actually complete the work the USAF pays you for.

I only got out a year ago and to be totally honest I never did a bake sale while I was in and I never got a bachelor's degree until after I retired. This whole bake sale/education thing is really just fallacy.

imported_DannyJ
04-05-2013, 05:21 PM
I only got out a year ago and to be totally honest I never did a bake sale while I was in and I never got a bachelor's degree until after I retired. This whole bake sale/education thing is really just fallacy.

Respectfully, that must have been your career field.

DWWSWWD
04-05-2013, 06:03 PM
I never did any of that stuff. I did chair the Native American dealio once. I had a BS job and noone else would volunteer. I'm not Native American by the way, though of course now that I'm a Chief I walk around with a headdress on and have tomahawks hanging in my office. Anywho, pissed off a bunch of people when I moved it off base because the club was being a cock about everything. Basically, "You'll eat what we put out and you'll have it when we say and you'll like it." Pissed off the social actions guy who was up my ass about every detail. I say we'll have turkey, he says that's racist or stereotyping or some bullshit. What do you suggest, egg foo yung? Finally told him to go away. Seriously, do not come to any more of these meetings. Tell your boss he can come if he must. He didn't.

SomeRandomGuy
04-05-2013, 06:09 PM
I never did any of that stuff. I did chair the Native American dealio once. I had a BS job and noone else would volunteer. I'm not Native American by the way, though of course now that I'm a Chief I walk around with a headdress on and have tomahawks hanging in my office. Anywho, pissed off a bunch of people when I moved it off base because the club was being a cock about everything. Basically, "You'll eat what we put out and you'll have it when we say and you'll like it." Pissed off the social actions guy who was up my ass about every detail. I say we'll have turkey, he says that's racist or stereotyping or some bullshit. What do you suggest, egg foo yung? Finally told him to go away. Seriously, do not come to any more of these meetings. Tell your boss he can come if he must. He didn't.

A kid in my ALS class went to an election night party when Obama won in 2008. He was white and basically an independant he just thought it would be cool to go. Him and his wife were the only white people at the event. They served fried chicken and watermelon. He kept asking his wife if it was one big joke.