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Absinthe Anecdote
08-22-2012, 06:41 PM
What AFSC do you have the most contempt for?

Try not to talk about your own AFSC.

I want to hear about the AFSC that bugs you the most.

I used to hate the personnel specialists that worked in the Squadron Ordely rooms. I don't even know their AFSC designator.

They would routinely deflect taskings that involved gathering personnel statistics to the operational flights, crap that they should have access to.

I also resented them for having better duty hours and being too cozy and chummy with the CC, Shirt and Ops Supe.

Sure, they were probably okay Joes and Janes but I really used to despise them.

Airborne
08-22-2012, 07:11 PM
Security forces, but thats because Im not a big cop fan military or civilian. Stop trying to be infantry and stop eating your own people. Wear a patrol cap like the vast majority of us cause you arent anything special. Why does the most populous AFSC in the USAF need a manning assist?
I might have fed a troll....

justachillin
08-22-2012, 07:12 PM
Fire dawgs. Lazy spoiled sob's. That is all

ttribe
08-22-2012, 07:13 PM
I think in the old AFSC world, you are referring to the 702's in the squadrons.

My first duty assignment, I was roomed with one of the sq 702s. Dude was a POS-1C. Drugs, alchy, and zero personal hygiene. All the others seems okay.

Venus
08-22-2012, 07:28 PM
By reading these forum threads I would believe any AFSC that gets all their weekends/holidays off and closes down Weds and Fri for training or a sqaudron function. Plus any AFSC that bitches about blues Monday when others are constantly in full battle rattle with a round constantly in the chamber. Also other AFSC's that don't even know what aircraft are assigned to their base or don't even know we've been in a constant expeditionary mode since August of 1990.

SomeRandomGuy
08-22-2012, 07:32 PM
Security forces, but thats because Im not a big cop fan military or civilian. Stop trying to be infantry and stop eating your own people. Wear a patrol cap like the vast majority of us cause you arent anything special. Why does the most populous AFSC in the USAF need a manning assist?
I might have fed a troll....

I agree with this but that is probably because I have only been to bases that did not have an MX squadron. I used to have a list of people who failed to inprocess with finance. 80% of that list was Security Forces. They also refuse to come in regardless of who you contact until you channel it all the way to their commander and shirt.

Also the whole augmentee thing has always pissed me off. They request people from Finance, Personnel, Medical to do their job then they complain when those AFSCs do not do their job. Did they ever consider that the problem is that we gave up all our people for Honor guard, augmentee, bay orderly, etc and SF gets exempted from all of those.

Also the whole "I am better than you attitude" is rampant in SF. I had a guy try to pull me across the counter at finance. Yep he was a cop. Another cop said he was about to dick slap one of my female Amn. We always used to say that the reason we have cops is because of cops.

Jamethon
08-22-2012, 07:44 PM
I have a feeling that the most hated one starts with a 2A.

WestCoastAR_Crewdog
08-22-2012, 07:54 PM
I have a feeling that the most hated one starts with a 1A.

Fixed it for ya.

JD2780
08-22-2012, 08:02 PM
SERE. Sure give them jump and freefall. In what universe do they have an operational need to do that? They dont.

Yet my guys have to pull teeth to get jump school, and the guys at Ranger Batts or Special Forces Groups (the real SFG) have to wait months to get freefall.

Plus some think they're BAMFs when they dont even do rescue missions but routinely tell people they're CSAR. Whatever, no use sweating over it.

MACHINE666
08-22-2012, 08:10 PM
What AFSC do you have the most contempt for?

Try not to talk about your own AFSC.

I want to hear about the AFSC that bugs you the most.

I used to hate the personnel specialists that worked in the Squadron Ordely rooms. I don't even know their AFSC designator.

They would routinely deflect taskings that involved gathering personnel statistics to the operational flights, crap that they should have access to.

I also resented them for having better duty hours and being too cozy and chummy with the CC, Shirt and Ops Supe.

Sure, they were probably okay Joes and Janes but I really used to despise them.

I despise the 4N0X1 careerfield. They are the idiots of the medical careerfield, plain and simple.

Airborne
08-22-2012, 08:23 PM
SERE. Sure give them jump and freefall. In what universe do they have an operational need to do that? They dont.

Yet my guys have to pull teeth to get jump school, and the guys at Ranger Batts or Special Forces Groups (the real SFG) have to wait months to get freefall.

Plus some think they're BAMFs when they dont even do rescue missions but routinely tell people they're CSAR. Whatever, no use sweating over it.

That was going to be my second choice for the exact same reasons.

LogDog
08-22-2012, 08:24 PM
I despise the 4N0X1 careerfield. They are the idiots of the medical careerfield, plain and simple.
Look who they have to work with; surgeons. Surgeons tend to fall into two categories: nice people or assholes with assholes and most are assholes. The reason they're assholes is because they have enormous egos and they aren't afraid to let you know they better than you or anyone else. Even outside their area of specialty they act as if they have the answer to everything.

Rainmaker
08-22-2012, 08:24 PM
Judging by the chatter on this forum. Its got be 8R000- Enlisted Accession Recruiter.

ericandersonx01
08-22-2012, 08:29 PM
I agree with this but that is probably because I have only been to bases that did not have an MX squadron. I used to have a list of people who failed to inprocess with finance. 80% of that list was Security Forces. They also refuse to come in regardless of who you contact until you channel it all the way to their commander and shirt.

Also the whole augmentee thing has always pissed me off. They request people from Finance, Personnel, Medical to do their job then they complain when those AFSCs do not do their job. Did they ever consider that the problem is that we gave up all our people for Honor guard, augmentee, bay orderly, etc and SF gets exempted from all of those.

Also the whole "I am better than you attitude" is rampant in SF. I had a guy try to pull me across the counter at finance. Yep he was a cop. Another cop said he was about to dick slap one of my female Amn. We always used to say that the reason we have cops is because of cops.


I was a cop and agree with you 100%. I never had the "attitude" though. I did my job and went home. Knew a bunch of guys that thought they were hot sh!t because they wore a beret. I, personally, thought it looked gay and wore my field cap whenever I could.

JD2780
08-22-2012, 08:33 PM
Look who they have to work with; surgeons. Surgeons tend to fall into two categories: nice people or assholes with assholes and most are assholes. The reason they're assholes is because they have enormous egos and they aren't afraid to let you know they better than you or anyone else. Even outside their area of specialty they act as if they have the answer to everything.

Plus they have to deal with people that come in with runny noses or minor aches and pains. Stuff that can be handled at home. Spouses demanding to be seen because of their husbands rank. Senior ranking people demanding to be seen because of their rank although there is an appt system for a reason. So they shut off their brains as to NOT punch whiney bitches in the face.

JD2780
08-22-2012, 08:33 PM
Judging by the chatter on this forum. Its got be 8R000- Enlisted Accession Recruiter.

Dang good call.

LogDog
08-22-2012, 08:45 PM
Plus they have to deal with people that come in with runny noses or minor aches and pains. Stuff that can be handled at home. Spouses demanding to be seen because of their husbands rank. Senior ranking people demanding to be seen because of their rank although there is an appt system for a reason. So they shut off their brains as to NOT punch whiney bitches in the face.
My post was mainly about the 4N1 career field but what you say is true also. My career was entirely in medical materiel (medical supply) so I rarely came in contact with a patient but my job took me to every section in the clinic/hospital and I saw much of what you said. A friend of mine, Red, was a med tech working the ER one night and they had two legitimate emergencies come in one after another. During the second emergency, a heart attack patient, the ER was backed up with other non-emergency patient. A LtCol keep bugging him about when his kids were going to be seen and Red was polite and explained the situation to him and asked for his patience. After waiting over an hour the LtCol find got in Red's face and demanded his kids, who had colds, be seen immediately or he'd have Red's stripes. Red lost it and told him he could either sit down and wait or leave. The LtCol decided to leave and told him that he'd be contacting the hospital commander. Just after shift change the next morning the commander called Red to his office and asked what happened. red told him and then handed the commander the LtCol and his family's medical records to show him the LtCol have abused using the ER. The commander, who was one of the best I ever worked for, told him to be careful in the future how he talks to patients and dismissed him. The commander then call the LtCol and told him if he or his family steps foot in his ER again and it's not an emergency then he and his family will be banned from the hospital and he can pay for his own care off base.

Dickie
08-22-2012, 08:56 PM
SERE. Sure give them jump and freefall. In what universe do they have an operational need to do that? They dont.

Yet my guys have to pull teeth to get jump school, and the guys at Ranger Batts or Special Forces Groups (the real SFG) have to wait months to get freefall.

Plus some think they're BAMFs when they dont even do rescue missions but routinely tell people they're CSAR. Whatever, no use sweating over it.

I all of my former units we had SERE guys and STS or PJs. The SERE guys always hung around them and jumped whenever there was an opening. They also wore the same operational type uniform the STS guys wore to fit in. They teach and help re-integrate folks we get back from captivity/evasion. I don't get it why don't they go PJ or TACP or something?

imported_AFKILO7
08-22-2012, 09:02 PM
Unfortunately I'm a cop...well I'm still K9 at least for the next three and a half years, then I go back to the career field. I can't stand what our career field has become. I used to be very proud of what I was a part of, now I look at alot of my fellow TSgt's and I want to curb stomp them, their attitudes towards other career fields are horrible. I don't really have an AFSC that I can't stand. I just can't stand assholes.

Now I will defend a Security Forces member if something doesn't sound right, but I know there are three sides to every story.

jshiver15
08-22-2012, 09:16 PM
If you're weather, it's weather. I've met some of the most uptight, judgmental, stubborn, whiney, self-righteous people doing this job.

We're also really bad at self-awareness . . so I'm probably one of those people.

ttribe
08-22-2012, 09:22 PM
Look who they have to work with; surgeons. Surgeons tend to fall into two categories: nice people or assholes with assholes and most are assholes. The reason they're assholes is because they have enormous egos and they aren't afraid to let you know they better than you or anyone else. Even outside their area of specialty they act as if they have the answer to everything.

I bought my house from an AF Doc, the guy thought he was a handyman. I'm still re-wiring things that he "Fixed". Everytime I unscrew a wall plate is a new adventure in "WTF was he doing?"

bb stacker
08-22-2012, 09:23 PM
easily weapons, they just suck!

jshiver15
08-22-2012, 09:32 PM
easily weapons, they just suck!

If you're weapons, my intent is not to offend . . but I think there is a bit of truth to your statement.

Of the few weapons guys I actually know, they're all extremely egotistical. I was at PME with one weapons troop who had the biggest ego I've ever seen. He'd always have this smug look on his face that made it really hard not to slap the shit out of him for. During the graduation, he received the 'Top Grad' (not Levitow, but the name escapes me at the moment) award for having the best scores on evaluations. My buddy told me that, even 9 months later, he talks about it all the time and has actually used it to pull weight in an argument.

grimreaper
08-22-2012, 09:44 PM
Fire dawgs. Lazy spoiled sob's. That is all

LOL, one must have stole your girlfriend.

Forsaken Wombat
08-22-2012, 09:56 PM
LOL, one must have stole your girlfriend.

Zzzzzz.

I would have to say that Fire Department (let's call them just that - Fire Department. No nicknames for these clowns) is my most hated. They do nothing all day aside from eat, sleep, sh*t, wash trucks, watch DVDs, and work out. They are responsible for a vast majority of discipline issues within a CE squadron (with EOD rounding out the rest). They "respond" to false calls and engine start-ups and just sit there in their trucks, burning diesel and sucking air until the Chief gives the all-clear...and then they claim they "saved $230M in AF assets/safeguarded 300K lives" or whatever.

There's a bumper sticker I saw that read, "USAF Fire Department - One False Alarm Away From a Medal!".

They really should break Fire Department, EOD, and EM off of CES and let them be their own squadron.

LogDog
08-22-2012, 10:02 PM
I bought my house from an AF Doc, the guy thought he was a handyman. I'm still re-wiring things that he "Fixed". Everytime I unscrew a wall plate is a new adventure in "WTF was he doing?"
I've known a number of doctors and many of them are good people. We had one doctor at my first base who used to buy washers and dryers at the DRMO sales. He'd repair them and then give them away to enlisted families who didn't have a washer or dryer.

At Osan, one of the best PAs I ever knew would put in a full shift in the hospital and then during the annual war exercise he volunteered his time to provide sick call at night for the troops in the field.

LogDog
08-22-2012, 10:03 PM
I bought my house from an AF Doc, the guy thought he was a handyman. I'm still re-wiring things that he "Fixed". Everytime I unscrew a wall plate is a new adventure in "WTF was he doing?"
I've known a number of doctors and many of them are good people. We had one doctor at my first base who used to buy washers and dryers at the DRMO sales. He'd repair them and then give them away to enlisted families who didn't have a washer or dryer.

At Osan, one of the best PAs I ever knew would put in a full shift in the hospital and then during the annual war exercise he volunteered his time to provide sick call at night for the troops in the field.

golfer55
08-22-2012, 10:22 PM
Zzzzzz.

I would have to say that Fire Department (let's call them just that - Fire Department. No nicknames for these clowns) is my most hated. They do nothing all day aside from eat, sleep, sh*t, wash trucks, watch DVDs, and work out. They are responsible for a vast majority of discipline issues within a CE squadron (with EOD rounding out the rest). They "respond" to false calls and engine start-ups and just sit there in their trucks, burning diesel and sucking air until the Chief gives the all-clear...and then they claim they "saved $230M in AF assets/safeguarded 300K lives" or whatever.

There's a bumper sticker I saw that read, "USAF Fire Department - One False Alarm Away From a Medal!".

They really should break Fire Department, EOD, and EM off of CES and let them be their own squadron.

No joke Wombat. We refer to them as the tenent unit within CES.

Absinthe Anecdote
08-22-2012, 10:44 PM
Zzzzzz.

I would have to say that Fire Department (let's call them just that - Fire Department. No nicknames for these clowns) is my most hated. They do nothing all day aside from eat, sleep, sh*t, wash trucks, watch DVDs, and work out. They are responsible for a vast majority of discipline issues within a CE squadron (with EOD rounding out the rest). They "respond" to false calls and engine start-ups and just sit there in their trucks, burning diesel and sucking air until the Chief gives the all-clear...and then they claim they "saved $230M in AF assets/safeguarded 300K lives" or whatever.
There's a bumper sticker I saw that read, "USAF Fire Department - One False Alarm Away From a Medal!".

They really should break Fire Department, EOD, and EM off of CES and let them be their own squadron.

Fucking hilarious!

However, I’d say 99.9 percent of the AFSC’s are guilty of loading their EPRs and Awards and Decs with nonsense like that.

We are taught to write crap like that and after a while too many people start believing their own bullshit.

Hell, it is no different in the civilian world. You should see some of the crap I tried to edit that went to support a congressional testimony last year.

Politicians? Forget about it! They are notorious for serving up mountains of bullshit based on the tiniest grain of truth.

This kind of bullshit is what created the story of Hillary Clinton dodging sniper fire in Bosnia.

It is always nice to see someone get called out on hyping shit up though!

Demaskee
08-22-2012, 10:48 PM
They really should break Fire Department, EOD, and EM off of CES and let them be their own squadron.

+1 for this

I feel bad for the traditional CE guys when it comes to quarterly awards packages. They bust their asses but there is only so many ways you can say you fixed a pipe break, installed a generator, etc... and even worse when you have to compete with someone safing a munition, putting out a fire, responding to a white powder incident.

71Fish
08-22-2012, 10:52 PM
I've known a number of doctors and many of them are good people. We had one doctor at my first base who used to buy washers and dryers at the DRMO sales. He'd repair them and then give them away to enlisted families who didn't have a washer or dryer.

At Osan, one of the best PAs I ever knew would put in a full shift in the hospital and then during the annual war exercise he volunteered his time to provide sick call at night for the troops in the field.



My most hated (and at times most loved) in the AMXS/MOO. Pain in the ass, and savior of my ass.

Rick_Dickulous
08-22-2012, 11:03 PM
I absolutely despise most flightline maintainers but especially crew chiefs. I know that they are continuously hyped by their leadership as the most important people in the Air Force, but bottom line is they are glorified Jiffy Lube employees that can be easily replaced by any high school drop out with minimal training.

grimreaper
08-22-2012, 11:10 PM
Zzzzzz.

I would have to say that Fire Department (let's call them just that - Fire Department. No nicknames for these clowns) is my most hated. They do nothing all day aside from eat, sleep, sh*t, wash trucks, watch DVDs, and work out. They are responsible for a vast majority of discipline issues within a CE squadron (with EOD rounding out the rest). They "respond" to false calls and engine start-ups and just sit there in their trucks, burning diesel and sucking air until the Chief gives the all-clear...and then they claim they "saved $230M in AF assets/safeguarded 300K lives" or whatever.

There's a bumper sticker I saw that read, "USAF Fire Department - One False Alarm Away From a Medal!".

They really should break Fire Department, EOD, and EM off of CES and let them be their own squadron.


And how exactly do you know all this?

KellyinAvon
08-22-2012, 11:19 PM
I hate ground safety.

Koa1121
08-22-2012, 11:20 PM
I absolutely despise most flightline maintainers but especially crew chiefs. I know that they are continuously hyped by their leadership as the most important people in the Air Force, but bottom line is they are glorified Jiffy Lube employees that can be easily replaced by any high school drop out with minimal training.

Spoken like someone who has no clue as to what really goes on. I can't speak for crew chiefs on heavies, but I can assure you there is much, much more that goes into producing fighter sorties by crew chiefs than most think. When jets are flying well, sure, the job is easy. But, when they aren't, it takes a hell of a lot more than a Jiffy Lube employee to get back to flying combat sorties.

Rick_Dickulous
08-22-2012, 11:54 PM
Spoken like someone who has no clue as to what really goes on. I can't speak for crew chiefs on heavies, but I can assure you there is much, much more that goes into producing fighter sorties by crew chiefs than most think. When jets are flying well, sure, the job is easy. But, when they aren't, it takes a hell of a lot more than a Jiffy Lube employee to get back to flying combat sorties.

Yeah, it must be tough hanging around the fire bottle, spitting tobacco on the ground and bitching about how hard you work.

Jamethon
08-23-2012, 12:16 AM
Yeah, it must be tough hanging around the fire bottle, spitting tobacco on the ground and bitching about how hard you work.

Just out of curiosity, what is your job? Do you perceive crew chiefs as only sitting around, spitting tobacco, and bitching? That would be like me perceiving that the finance troops sit around and get paid to mess up my travel vouchers and pay as much as they can.

Dislike a crew chief for his attitude, sure. Don't, even for a second, think that they aren't some of the hardest working people we have, outside of STS/TACP type.

I am not, nor have I been a crew chief. I was former maintenance and I have worked around them. Do I dislike a lot of them? Yeah because some are douche bags. But I understand they put in a hard day's work more than most non-combat airmen.

OtisRNeedleman
08-23-2012, 12:17 AM
Funny, I never disliked any particular AFSC just because of their AFSC. I only disliked people because they were assholes, regardless of their AFSC. The person I despised the most during my active-duty time, and despise to this day, held the same AFSC I did - 8035. (Signals Intelligence Officer).

71Fish
08-23-2012, 12:21 AM
Just out of curiosity, what is your job? Do you perceive crew chiefs as only sitting around, spitting tobacco, and bitching? That would be like me perceiving that the finance troops sit around and get paid to mess up my travel vouchers and pay as much as they can.

Dislike a crew chief for his attitude, sure. Don't, even for a second, think that they aren't some of the hardest working people we have, outside of STS/TACP type.

I am not, nor have I been a crew chief. I was former maintenance and I have worked around them. Do I dislike a lot of them? Yeah because some are douche bags. But I understand they put in a hard day's work more than most non-combat airmen.

Because of my past job (now retired) I had a love hate relationship with crew chiefs. But you are correct, they work harder and longer hours than probably any other career field. They put up with a lot of shit but still get he job done. The only AFSC I can think of that pulls the same hour are cops.

LogDog
08-23-2012, 12:39 AM
I promise you the PA didn't "volunteer" for anything. He was paid overtime or earned comp time for the extra hours he put in.

My most hated (and at times most loved) in the AMXS/MOO. Pain in the ass, and savior of my ass.
How does anyone in the AF get paid overtime because if they did then the AF owes me and a lot of other people a ton of money. As for comp time, he didn't take it because he was on an unaccompanied tour and other than shopping, there really wasn't much to there other than hit the bars (which he rarely did). I knew the PA personally and he loved his job. This was his last assignment before retiring and he and his wife, a registered nurse, had already signed a contract with New York State to provide medical services to rural Northern New York, which was his dream job.

LogDog
08-23-2012, 12:43 AM
Spoken like someone who has no clue as to what really goes on. I can't speak for crew chiefs on heavies, but I can assure you there is much, much more that goes into producing fighter sorties by crew chiefs than most think. When jets are flying well, sure, the job is easy. But, when they aren't, it takes a hell of a lot more than a Jiffy Lube employee to get back to flying combat sorties.
Being in medical my entire career I've always said that the medical field has the biggest whiners in the AF. I used to tell the whiners they should spend a week out on the flightline during the summer or winter doing what those guys do and then tell me what his problem is.

Rick_Dickulous
08-23-2012, 12:44 AM
Just out of curiosity, what is your job? Do you perceive crew chiefs as only sitting around, spitting tobacco, and bitching? That would be like me perceiving that the finance troops sit around and get paid to mess up my travel vouchers and pay as much as they can.

Dislike a crew chief for his attitude, sure. Don't, even for a second, think that they aren't some of the hardest working people we have, outside of STS/TACP type.

I am not, nor have I been a crew chief. I was former maintenance and I have worked around them. Do I dislike a lot of them? Yeah because some are douche bags. But I understand they put in a hard day's work more than most non-combat airmen.

I'll have you know that I am a combat optometry troop. I work 7 and sometimes 8 hours a day, up to 5 days a week. If I don't do my job, jets don't get off the ground. I am so highly trained, the Air Force cannot afford to replace me. I'm getting another Bronze Star next week for adjusting the General's glasses, thus avoiding a disasterous crash and saving the Air Force 1 trillion dollars.

tiredretiredE7
08-23-2012, 12:48 AM
I'll have you know that I am a combat optometry troop. I work 7 and sometimes 8 hours a day, up to 5 days a week. If I don't do my job, jets don't get off the ground. I am so highly trained, the Air Force cannot afford to replace me. I'm getting another Bronze Star next week for adjusting the General's glasses, thus avoiding a disasterous crash and saving the Air Force 1 trillion dollars.

LOL, this is awesome but I believe this could be a reality in today's AF.

Demaskee
08-23-2012, 12:54 AM
I hate anyone in any AFSC that treats me like I'm the asshole for not knowing THEIR job.

SENDBILLMONEY
08-23-2012, 12:57 AM
I hate anyone in any AFSC that treats me like I'm the asshole for not knowing THEIR job.

How about the ones who are mad when you call them out regarding their own AFI and 1) you're right, and 2) they have to do work because of it.

71Fish
08-23-2012, 01:03 AM
How does anyone in the AF get paid overtime because if they did then the AF owes me and a lot of other people a ton of money. As for comp time, he didn't take it because he was on an unaccompanied tour and other than shopping, there really wasn't much to there other than hit the bars (which he rarely did). I knew the PA personally and he loved his job. This was his last assignment before retiring and he and his wife, a registered nurse, had already signed a contract with New York State to provide medical services to rural Northern New York, which was his dream job.

I'm used to PA's being civilians (even at Osan when I was there). But if he is military then I should delete my entire post on the subject.

Demaskee
08-23-2012, 01:06 AM
How about the ones who are mad when you call them out regarding their own AFI and 1) you're right, and 2) they have to do work because of it.

Haha, Not entirely related, but I remember my boss' wife went to the base hospital at an overseas location to make an appointment. They told her that they couldn't do it in person because she did not have her ID. She replied that they don't require ID when you call to make an appointment. He tells her she must call then. So while walking out she sees a phone on the wall a few feet from the desk and calls the number. The same guy she talked to at the desk answers the phone where she stares at him the entire time making her appointment over the phone. What a douche.

LogDog
08-23-2012, 01:55 AM
I'm used to PA's being civilians (even at Osan when I was there). But if he is military then I should delete my entire post on the subject.
I was at Osan in the early 90s and the only PAs there, that I knew of, were military. You don't need to delete your post but thanks for the clarification.

JD2780
08-23-2012, 01:56 AM
I all of my former units we had SERE guys and STS or PJs. The SERE guys always hung around them and jumped whenever there was an opening. They also wore the same operational type uniform the STS guys wore to fit in. They teach and help re-integrate folks we get back from captivity/evasion. I don't get it why don't they go PJ or TACP or something?


Because then they might have actually earn their jump boots and berets.

Yea SERE gets a beret, but EOD doesnt? Another fine choice by the uniform board. Morons.

Rick_Dickulous
08-23-2012, 02:03 AM
I also can't stand logistics people. What's the point of having them? Hasn't the DoD heard of FedEx? Loggies are just a waste of space and they have no place in my Air Force.

Airborne
08-23-2012, 02:21 AM
Because then they might have actually earn their jump boots and berets.

Yea SERE gets a beret, but EOD doesnt? Another fine choice by the uniform board. Morons.

I can understand their reasoning behind them jumping and I dont have a problem with it. They have created an environment where people are not sure "exactly" what they do outside of SV80 for the most part so being jump qualified so they can teach people how to bail is a passable reasoning. However, the fact that Ive met parachute riggers who cant jump and some TACPs (as you mentioned) who arent even static line jump qualified it is baffling. They can pretty much do whatever they want. Ive seen them with any combination of combat dive, halo, pathfinder, air assualt, etc. Most of them think they are operators is what it comes down to.

bcoco14
08-23-2012, 02:51 AM
I'm gonna go with crew chiefs, both heavy and fighter. Seeing as I have worked fighter MX and heavy Ops. Most of them have a self entitlement that can rival any fighter pilot, hands down.

The fighter guys try to do the I'm better than you dick dance like "I worked 15 hours while only actually only doing 8 hours of work." .... TPo most of the heavy guys that don't even know what's in the 781's when you show up to the jet and sit there playing angry birds. Then they look at you like you're the asshole when you have a question that they should already know the answer to!

JD2780
08-23-2012, 02:51 AM
I can understand their reasoning behind them jumping and I dont have a problem with it. They have created an environment where people are not sure "exactly" what they do outside of SV80 for the most part so being jump qualified so they can teach people how to bail is a passable reasoning. However, the fact that Ive met parachute riggers who cant jump and some TACPs (as you mentioned) who arent even static line jump qualified it is baffling. They can pretty much do whatever they want. Ive seen them with any combination of combat dive, halo, pathfinder, air assualt, etc. Most of them think they are operators is what it comes down to.

They dont even teach you how to jump. They teach you how to lower yourself from your harness and how to PLF. Yes, quite a few do think they're operators. I've worked with some stand out dudes though. Dont think for a second I think they're all assholes. They dont need all that stuff.

Plus when they're at the usual wings, they teach refresher stuff like water survival.

We had one start talking shit to us when we were going through SV80. Asking us the longest we've ever rucked and we answered 14 miles. He asked "Yea well how long did it take you?" We replied, some of us did it in 2hrs and 15 minutes, some did it in 3hrs. He then asked again," Yea how much were you guys carrying?" The same guy replied, per AFI we started off with 80 pounds including water, we dumped that shit as we cross the starting line. My buddy then just came back and said, TSgt______, you're the one with the complex, I'm just here to learn how to take a beating, can we proceed?

Yea this all took place in their big auditorium.

combatrob
08-23-2012, 03:03 AM
I agree with this but that is probably because I have only been to bases that did not have an MX squadron. I used to have a list of people who failed to inprocess with finance. 80% of that list was Security Forces. They also refuse to come in regardless of who you contact until you channel it all the way to their commander and shirt.

Also the whole augmentee thing has always pissed me off. They request people from Finance, Personnel, Medical to do their job then they complain when those AFSCs do not do their job. Did they ever consider that the problem is that we gave up all our people for Honor guard, augmentee, bay orderly, etc and SF gets exempted from all of those.

Also the whole "I am better than you attitude" is rampant in SF. I had a guy try to pull me across the counter at finance. Yep he was a cop. Another cop said he was about to dick slap one of my female Amn. We always used to say that the reason we have cops is because of cops.

Anything happen to either of those jackasses?

Jamethon
08-23-2012, 03:48 AM
I don't know what AFSC it is, but I dislike the AFSC that refers to the Air Force as "my Air Force."

JD2780
08-23-2012, 03:49 AM
I don't know what AFSC it is, but I dislike the AFSC that refers to the Air Force as "my Air Force."

Oh you mean 8F000. Yea quite a few of them suck also.

Rick_Dickulous
08-23-2012, 03:53 AM
I don't know what AFSC it is, but I dislike the AFSC that refers to the Air Force as "my Air Force."

It's combat optometry and I also dislike any AFSC that dislikes any AFSC that refers to the Air Force as "my Air Force." Show some ownership and pride for God's sake. Aim High-Fly, Fight, and Win! HOO HAH!

BRUWIN
08-23-2012, 03:55 AM
I think Fire Fighters are actually a pretty good bunch of guys so I don't know why anybody would think they suck. They always came across to me as a pretty level headed group of people.

Jamethon
08-23-2012, 03:56 AM
I also want to add in PJ and CCT. Really, where do these guys get off? You think that because you save lives and see combat that you are special? I never see them hosting bake sales or at the 5/6 meetings. What kind of professionals are they? They can't even volunteer!

BRUWIN
08-23-2012, 04:05 AM
I also want to add in PJ and CCT. Really, where do these guys get off? You think that because you save lives and see combat that you are special? I never see them hosting bake sales or at the 5/6 meetings. What kind of professionals are they? They can't even volunteer!

Include TacP as well. I bet JD has never even frosted a cupcake in support of a unit fund-raiser.

CrustySMSgt
08-23-2012, 06:08 AM
I also want to add in PJ and CCT. Really, where do these guys get off? You think that because you save lives and see combat that you are special? I never see them hosting bake sales or at the 5/6 meetings. What kind of professionals are they? They can't even volunteer!

Hate to digress from the sarcasm and AFSC smack talking, but I just gotta throw it out there. I did the Ops panel on the last SMSgt board (for all but the bag wearers... you know they don't let commoners assess their superpowers) and we looked at the TACPs, PJ, and Combat Controllers... I kept getting in trouble for falling behind, because I couldn't help but take the time to actually read their decoration citations. Saw a Silver Star, and more Bronze Stars with Valor than I could count... There were a couple guys with 5 of them. Some amazing Airmen.

They were amongst the toughest ones to score, knowing how high their OPSTEMPO is. We all agreed that for these AFSCs, credibility and experience were the most important factors. Not hard to determine who deserves to get promoted, a guy who got one Bronze Star 10 years ago and has spent the rest of his time in support positions or training, or the guy who has more deployments than you can count, is leading troops in combat, and has more than a handful of Bronze Stars (most with Vs). Seems obvious who would have more credibility and ability to lead in that community. That is why we can't go to a cookie cutter approach when it comes to rating Airmen, because some just don't fit into the mold.

Now, back :focus
I'm with the crowd that doesn't hate any specific AFSC, just those in their AFSC who don't know their own AFIs, won't get off their ass to even pretend they comprehend "customer service," and who close for "training" during everyone else's duty hours; if you've got training that can't be done while you are serving customers, close the doors at 1630 and do it on YOUR time, not mine!

giggawatt
08-23-2012, 06:15 AM
And how exactly do you know all this?

Because half of the time electricians respond to alarms as well and actually fix the problem when there is no fire. When you go to the FD for any RWP or work order, you see them washing trucks, sitting in the break room or in their little gym. I do say though, they have the cleanest vehicles on base. Then, when it comes to quarterly packages and what not, this "fire" fighter always wins. When you see the package, you easily see all the rediculous bullets. If there were actually fires, the rest of CE would be at that facility shortly after doing repairs or at least managing the contract for it. I've had 2 FF piss mates. One was your typical egotistical "fire dawg" and the other was a guy that didn't "fit in" with that crew. He hated being an AF fire fighter. I used to hang out with him at the FD sometimes and work out with him while he was on shift.
The discipline issues within a CE squadron are just plain evident.

OK, I'll give them a little credit, they do have to do some training during the "duty day".

I've never had one steal my GF but they are good at taking the glory for catching jets with the barrier.

BigBaze
08-23-2012, 06:21 AM
All this fine discourse and not one mention of the hated zipper suited sun gods, and their stupid flight pay, flight suits, silly morale patches, complete disregard for discipline and their sense of entitlement??? Those assholes go and drain the Ramstein shoppette of all its alcohol, and sing stupid songs around the piano at the base club, not to mention think they are better then everyone else, I wish they'd just go to hell and die, along with their silly tradition, they are not real Air Force anyway!! /rant off

CrustySMSgt
08-23-2012, 06:34 AM
All this fine discourse and not one mention of the hated zipper suited sun gods

I think that is a given... too easy to bash them, they provide all the material and serve it up on a silver platter... lol

Rick_Dickulous
08-23-2012, 06:47 AM
I'm with the crowd that doesn't hate any specific AFSC, just those in their AFSC who don't know their own AFIs, won't get off their ass to even pretend they comprehend "customer service," and who close for "training" during everyone else's duty hours; if you've got training that can't be done while you are serving customers, close the doors at 1630 and do it on YOUR time, not mine!

You are a dumb butt.:panda

BigBaze
08-23-2012, 07:29 AM
I think that is a given... too easy to bash them, they provide all the material and serve it up on a silver platter... lol


we really are a bunch of assholes, especially us enlisted aircrew....:)

dceabf
08-23-2012, 07:43 AM
i am going with loadmasters, they are just aerial porters in a flight suit.

Monkey
08-23-2012, 08:25 AM
Public Affairs. There is nobody more out of touch with the military as a whole. Event the guy working behind the counter at Outdoor Rec has a better understanding of what we all do.

loadsmith
08-23-2012, 10:30 AM
i am going with loadmasters, they are just aerial porters in a flight suit.

So let me guess, you are either a Boom Operator or a 2T2 who couldn't pass a flight physical? :crutch

STL7997
08-23-2012, 10:35 AM
All this fine discourse and not one mention of the hated zipper suited sun gods, and their stupid flight pay, flight suits, silly morale patches, complete disregard for discipline and their sense of entitlement??? Those assholes go and drain the Ramstein shoppette of all its alcohol, and sing stupid songs around the piano at the base club, not to mention think they are better then everyone else, I wish they'd just go to hell and die, along with their silly tradition, they are not real Air Force anyway!! /rant off

So without all the flight suits, what would we be called? It certainly wouldn't be an Air Force anymore.

STL7997
08-23-2012, 10:37 AM
i am going with loadmasters, they are just aerial porters in a flight suit.

Somebody has to pass out blankets and pillows to the space-a folks.

Absinthe Anecdote
08-23-2012, 10:39 AM
i am going with loadmasters, they are just aerial porters in a flight suit.

I've always thought of them as flight attendants. Maybe just a tad uglier and with more body hair than the average Southwest Airlines flight attendant but other than that about the same.

Absinthe Anecdote
08-23-2012, 10:59 AM
I really used to get pissed off at the the JAG office because of how they were constantly talking down to you in those AFN commercials.

Don't give a special power of attorney to a shady character you met in a pool hall.

Jeeze, they really came off as condescending.

I was also pissed at the Chaplins because they had a commercial that said, "look at all the hard work Chaplins do!"

Then it shows them shooting basketball, going on fun runs, and wearing one of those stupid fancy silk robes like they are the high priest of the Temple of Syrinx.

Screw them! Bunch of glorified phonies.

Shrike
08-23-2012, 11:54 AM
i am going with loadmasters, they are just aerial porters in a flight suit.

I'm going with aerial porters. They're just loadmasters that don't get to wear a flight suit.

:biggrin

Shrike
08-23-2012, 11:55 AM
I really used to get pissed off at the the JAG office because of how they were constantly talking down to you in those AFN commercials.

Don't give a special power of attorney to a shady character you met in a pool hall.

Jeeze, they really came off as condescending.

I was also pissed at the Chaplins because they had a commercial that said, "look at all the hard work Chaplins do!"

Then it shows them shooting basketball, going on fun runs, and wearing one of those stupid fancy silk robes like they are the high priest of the Temple of Syrinx.

HEY! Their great computers fill the hallowed halls. All the gifts of life are held within their walls! Show some respect!

AF2017
08-23-2012, 12:09 PM
I would say all enlisted flyers. They think they're so f-ing special. Grow the f-up!! All because you wear a flight suit doesn't make you anymore special then anyone else. Your not a pilot or a warrant officer. Get to know your place.

Drives me nuts when you ask one of them to help. Never able to help. Have training or going home early. WTF! I out rank you bitch, do what I tell you to do!

js7799
08-23-2012, 12:20 PM
Whatever career field it is that works outbound assignments. Between taking forever to cut orders and not knowing their own PCS AFIs, I have never visited a less-helpful agency on any base I've been stationed at.

Shrike
08-23-2012, 12:24 PM
Whatever career field it is that works outbound assignments. Between taking forever to cut orders and not knowing their own PCS AFIs, I have never visited a less-helpful agency on any base I've been stationed at.

I hear that. My last two PCS I've had to go to outbound with a hard copy of sections of 36-2110 to show them that what they were telling me was wrong.

ttribe
08-23-2012, 12:35 PM
All this fine discourse and not one mention of the hated zipper suited sun gods, and their stupid flight pay, flight suits, silly morale patches, complete disregard for discipline and their sense of entitlement??? Those assholes go and drain the Ramstein shoppette of all its alcohol, and sing stupid songs around the piano at the base club, not to mention think they are better then everyone else, I wish they'd just go to hell and die, along with their silly tradition, they are not real Air Force anyway!! /rant off

Yeah, those guys are a bunch of.... wait just one f-ing minute. I have never stood around a piano and sang.

Speaking for FE's, all of us were guys that were unhappy with our career fields and did something about it. We retrained. It's easy to hate on us. We love our jobs. And the extra 400 bones in our checks didn't hurt either.

Absinthe Anecdote
08-23-2012, 01:46 PM
Yeah, those guys are a bunch of.... wait just one f-ing minute. I have never stood around a piano and sang.

Speaking for FE's, all of us were guys that were unhappy with our career fields and did something about it. We retrained. It's easy to hate on us. We love our jobs. And the extra 400 bones in our checks didn't hurt either.

Liar! I've seen you guys do it!

You guys also slick your hair back with big gooey globs of pomade and chain smoke unfiltered cigarettes.

I've also seen you guys giving each other rides on the handle bars of bicycles and going for picnics under apple trees.

Kind of gay if you ask me. But hey, you like your jobs...

Sad thing is you'll all be replaced by robotic aircraft in a few years.

WeaponsTSGT
08-23-2012, 02:07 PM
Judging by the chatter on this forum. Its got be 8R000- Enlisted Accession Recruiter.

I had to log in for this one....I would side with saying 8R000, and this isn't an outside view. Anyone that has worked with them will agree that there is no other career field that lacks core values like recruiters. It's not the one assignment and done recruiter, it's the ones that decided to stay in the career field and work in the squadron you have to watch out for.

71Fish
08-23-2012, 02:08 PM
Now, back :focus
I'm with the crowd that doesn't hate any specific AFSC, just those in their AFSC who don't know their own AFIs, won't get off their ass to even pretend they comprehend "customer service," and who close for "training" during everyone else's duty hours; if you've got training that can't be done while you are serving customers, close the doors at 1630 and do it on YOUR time, not mine!

I have to agree with you here. Our MPF/Finance "customer service" hours are 0900-1530. Really. On wednesday the clinic doesn't open until 0900 because of "training". I showed up early for a PT appt and let myself early. I didn't see anyone training, but there was a whole lot breakfast buffets going on.

Enigmatic Airman
08-23-2012, 02:50 PM
I despise the 4N0X1 careerfield. They are the idiots of the medical careerfield, plain and simple.

Your posts are hilarious since their so close to what I feel. I think a mixed bag here far as they go...usually the Airmen are the go to people most the NCO's cant wipe their own ass...Airmen bust ass to make it work over here I see...

Course it could be different story depending on the base.

*Bladeless
08-23-2012, 02:58 PM
not just one AFSC, a group....comm people, 3Ds.

I don't want to hear about your latest raid in rivendale, how you took down an epic legend mob, or your +1 mace of infinity...and take a shower you smelly ASS, and your dorm room smells like old pizza, balls, butt and barf!! Funny how comm people are the most lacking in people skills and normal communication.

SomeRandomGuy
08-23-2012, 03:00 PM
I have to agree with you here. Our MPF/Finance "customer service" hours are 0900-1530. Really. On wednesday the clinic doesn't open until 0900 because of "training". I showed up early for a PT appt and let myself early. I didn't see anyone training, but there was a whole lot breakfast buffets going on.

I have a question. Why do MPF/Finance need walk in hours anyways? At Wright-Patterson finance does not have walk in hours at all. I was one of the people who wrote the AFSO 21 idea that got that approved. The process now is that you send an email to Finance and they will either answer your question or make an appointment for you (similar to medical). You would be amazed how many people walk in to Finance to ask a question that would have been quicker on google. You want to know the per diem rate for your TDY to Hawaii? Let me check google. Thanks for wasteing my time.

9 times out of 10 if you have a major issue the person who is working walk-ins will not be able to help you anyways. Wouldn't you rather have an appointment to talk to the expert who runs the program you need help with? I compare it to people who go to the Emergency Room. Most of them have an issue that could have been solved with over the counter medication and rest. If they actually have a serious issue it would be better to have an appointment with their primary care provider or a specialist. I have never understand why people complain about the lack of walk-in hours for customer service. If I am sitting at the counter answering your stupid questions that means I cannot compute your voucher and get it paid quickly. It ends up creating a revolving door where the people sitting at the counter answer question about when a voucher will be paid. Those vouchers would have been paid a long time ago if you would leave me alone long enough to compute it.

Pullinteeth
08-23-2012, 03:11 PM
6F0...When I deployed, it took four months for them to pay my interim voucher-had to go to the chief of finance to get them to actually file the damn thing. Same thing for my supplemental clothing allowance. When I got back, I was told I could do a hard copy but they would just make me do it again in DTS (even though the orders weren't in DTS). Filed it in E-Finance they rejected it 3x simply because they didn't actually look at it (and admitted it). I had finance review it and it was submitted to Ellsworth-rejected. Finance reviewed it AGAIN-Ellsworth paid part. Filed a hard copy. They paid under $20 of the remaining $600-they were refusing to pay my airfare to and from the POD. Went back to finance-they requested I email the damn thing. Emailed it....waited....emailed again....waited...Had to get the chief of finance to get them to do anything-finally paid. In the meantime, I noticed I was still getting FSA (was told during inprocessing by the finance person that once the voucher was filed, all deployment related pay would stop). I contacted finance-they ignored the email-read it but didn't respond. Contacted the cheif of finance (in conjuction with the TV issue)...miracle...they contacted me. Their response? When we pay the airfare, you can just come in and pay-off the debt. To hell with that!! It was ENTIRELY based on their foibles-I filed a request for remission...

ttribe
08-23-2012, 03:21 PM
Liar! I've seen you guys do it!

You guys also slick your hair back with big gooey globs of pomade and chain smoke unfiltered cigarettes.

I've also seen you guys giving each other rides on the handle bars of bicycles and going for picnics under apple trees.

Kind of gay if you ask me. But hey, you like your jobs...

Sad thing is you'll all be replaced by robotic aircraft in a few years.

I do resemble that part. But it is a requirement. I flew on the KC-10. It had a great mirror in the lav to admire myself and work on the manscape. Nevermind the crewchiefs hated me for clogging the drain with my doo-gel. As to the smoking, the AF made it too easy for me. Does your uniform have a pocket on the arm specifically designed to hold a pack of smokes, and plastic spoon? Does your workstation come with a built in ashtray? Hate me, but it's not my fault.

BSflag
08-23-2012, 03:37 PM
Liar! I've seen you guys do it!

You guys also slick your hair back with big gooey globs of pomade and chain smoke unfiltered cigarettes.

I've also seen you guys giving each other rides on the handle bars of bicycles and going for picnics under apple trees.

Kind of gay if you ask me. But hey, you like your jobs...

Sad thing is you'll all be replaced by robotic aircraft in a few years.

Holy Shit that was funny, the tears are still rolling and people are walking by giving me weird looks.

JD2780
08-23-2012, 03:56 PM
Include TacP as well. I bet JD has never even frosted a cupcake in support of a unit fund-raiser.

Since I was DNF/DNIC I've frosted many cupcakes and went to one 5/6 meeting. Checked that box.

BSflag
08-23-2012, 03:57 PM
From being in two different worlds of the AF I have a few, most of which have all ready been covered.

Weapons - Unionized ex fourth string jv punters who sit around the break room talking about the time they all most got in the game. They refuse to work because their 2 man isn't there that day, can't even take out the trash.

Med Group - What do you call the top 70% of a graduating med school class.....Dr. What do you call the bottom 30%......Cpt.

MPF/Finance - Why is there one person helping a full waiting room while everyone else in the shop is standing around a filing cabinet, coffee in hand, and chatting about random bullshit.

Fighter Pilots - Yes wires go all over the jet, thanks for calling your jet code three about an arm rest you couldn’t figure out how to adjust on a Friday night. Don't worry about dowsing us with hydozine because you have 100 flying hours and don't need to use the start up check list anymore. I'm sure the pancreatic cancer you just gave me later in life won't be that bad. (Back to Med Grp, nice try with "losing" my exposure paperwork, to bad for you I got a copy)

AC 130 Pilots - You're not SF, you fly a cargo plane in circles, that is all.

13S (Officer Missileers and Space Operators) - Every bad idea in Space Command starts out with "Well when I was in Missiles we did this". I sit beside officers and do the exact same job, actually teach them how to do theirs these days, and get paid a hell of a lot less. The only difference is I don't have to kiss ass and plan parties every month.

1C6X1 Space Systems Operations (my current one) - Well no more flight suits for us desk pilots so I can't complain there. Eight hours max, inside, as long a lunch as I want. I do half the work as my last job, 2A, but get three times the praise. I just read this entire forum without a single person asking me what I was doing. I tested PME only and made Tech in less than nine years. I get to go to the gym anytime I want. I just finished a sweet four month TDY to Manhattan Beach CA. I'm considered "deployed in place" so no more sand box fun for me. Seriously, I'm surprised I'm not the most hated AFSC in the AF. Oh yeah, that’s right, hardly anybody knows we exist. God I love my job.

js7799
08-23-2012, 04:19 PM
Weapons - Unionized ex fourth string jv punters who sit around the break room talking about the time they all most got in the game. They refuse to work because their 2 man isn't there that day, can't even take out the trash.

I forgot about the 2-dubs: "We can't fireguard, we can't break up our 3-man teams."
"We broke a wire putting the gun in but we can't fix it because we don't know how even though wire repair is in our CDCs."
"We forgot to take the plugs off the gun drum panel so we need avionics to fix it." And of course they had a chief on base defending them, so they got away with this shit.

Also annoying was fuel shop (sorry FuelShopTech). I got really tired of being called to fuel barn to troubleshoot probe problems using the test sets that were owned by fuels. Or the arguments about the external tank probes being bad when I could hit the tank with a rubber mallet and the cockpit guage would jump.

I'm glad I got away from the line for a couple of years. I really don't want to go back.

Jamethon
08-23-2012, 04:30 PM
I've always thought of them as flight attendants. Maybe just a tad uglier and with more body hair than the average Southwest Airlines flight attendant but other than that about the same.

Don't forget the weapon they yield.


I would say all enlisted flyers. They think they're so f-ing special. Grow the f-up!! All because you wear a flight suit doesn't make you anymore special then anyone else. Your not a pilot or a warrant officer. Get to know your place.

Drives me nuts when you ask one of them to help. Never able to help. Have training or going home early. WTF! I out rank you bitch, do what I tell you to do!

Hey don't hate at CEA. You know how badges are arranged on the uniform? From top to bottom it's God (chaplain badge), aircrew, then everyone else.

Absinthe Anecdote
08-23-2012, 05:33 PM
Don't forget the weapon they yield.



Hey don't hate at CEA. You know how badges are arranged on the uniform? From top to bottom it's God (chaplain badge), aircrew, then everyone else.

Is that true?

Chaplins really get on my nerves.

One time at PSAB a Chaplin told me to take my "hat" off inside the building.

We had just went to MOPP 4 and were standing inside a bomb shelter. That "hat" was a helmet.

He caught on two seconds later when the fifty people behind me started streaming in the shelter.

Jamethon
08-23-2012, 05:49 PM
Also this AFSC

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/574825_10151345530819989_1352910312_n.jpg

Jamethon
08-23-2012, 05:51 PM
Is that true?

Chaplins really get on my nerves.

One time at PSAB a Chaplin told me to take my "hat" off inside the building.

We had just went to MOPP 4 and were standing inside a bomb shelter. That "hat" was a helmet.

He caught on two seconds later when the fifty people behind me started streaming in the shelter.

That true about the badges or the weapons?

Both are true.

Absinthe Anecdote
08-23-2012, 06:07 PM
That true about the badges or the weapons?

Both are true.

I was asking about the Chaplin badge...

alter ego
08-23-2012, 06:14 PM
During my time I had reasons to dislike several different career fields for their incompetance/unwillingness to follow Services AFI standards. My current dislike is LRS and JPPSO for screwing up every pcs move I made and allowing a carrier to sell my household goods without informing me.

Jamethon
08-23-2012, 06:20 PM
I was asking about the Chaplin badge...

Oh yeah, Chaplains badges are mandatory and go above any other badge on the uniform.

Venus
08-23-2012, 07:33 PM
This thread should be most hated individuals and not AFSC's, every shop has it share of douchebags. My vote for the most hated is that guy who is a self centered SOB who says things like send somebody else to the AOR not me. Who would ef over anybody just to get his way, who can never be counted on, who will use their race or sex to play the system. Just a waste of good oxygen somebody else productive could be using, hate these people so bad if I met their parents I would punch both squarely in the mouth.

grimreaper
08-23-2012, 10:05 PM
Because half of the time electricians respond to alarms as well and actually fix the problem when there is no fire. When you go to the FD for any RWP or work order, you see them washing trucks, sitting in the break room or in their little gym. I do say though, they have the cleanest vehicles on base. Then, when it comes to quarterly packages and what not, this "fire" fighter always wins. When you see the package, you easily see all the rediculous bullets. If there were actually fires, the rest of CE would be at that facility shortly after doing repairs or at least managing the contract for it. I've had 2 FF piss mates. One was your typical egotistical "fire dawg" and the other was a guy that didn't "fit in" with that crew. He hated being an AF fire fighter. I used to hang out with him at the FD sometimes and work out with him while he was on shift.
The discipline issues within a CE squadron are just plain evident.

OK, I'll give them a little credit, they do have to do some training during the "duty day".

I've never had one steal my GF but they are good at taking the glory for catching jets with the barrier.


You must be at a pretty slow base then because I see all the OPREP reports and the significant events reports generated by the FD on a daily basis. If you think they are washing trucks all day, you must be at one Sleepy Hollow of an assignment.

Discipline problems also have to do with the base, but I'm pretty sure the FD is one of the largest, if not the largest Flight in CE, so it makes sense they would probably have the most.

As far as barriers go, can't say I blame them. If it was me who was having to get up in the middle of the night to do someone else's job, I'd damn well be taking the credit for it too.

I be careful about saying you want the FD, EOD, and EM going to their own squadron...go ask the CE Commander if he would like that. I bet he says, "Not just No, but HELL NO!", because he knows if that were to actually happen, at least half of his budget or more leaves with them.

blumpkin
08-23-2012, 11:56 PM
This is actually a work in progress. The working title is "Emergency Services Flight" but which agencies other than Fire and EOD will be combined is still in the works.

grimreaper
08-24-2012, 12:13 AM
This is actually a work in progress. The working title is "Emergency Services Flight" but which agencies other than Fire and EOD will be combined is still in the works.

"Fire Emergency Services" Flight is what the FD is known as now.

The FD and EOD are already their own Flights, so I don't know how combining them plus others would still be defined as a Flight. It would at least have to be a Squadron.

That concept was already tried some years ago and was abandoned.

blumpkin
08-24-2012, 12:34 AM
"Fire Emergency Services" Flight is what the FD is known as now.

The FD and EOD are already their own Flights, so I don't know how combining them plus others would still be defined as a Flight. It would at least have to be a Squadron.

That concept was already tried some years ago and was abandoned.


---I mis-spoke, they are looking at making it a seperate squadron. Latest I heard was Fire, EOD and EM.

KellyinAvon
08-24-2012, 12:36 AM
During my time I had reasons to dislike several different career fields for their incompetance/unwillingness to follow Services AFI standards. My current dislike is LRS and JPPSO for screwing up every pcs move I made and allowing a carrier to sell my household goods without informing me.

Since the thread is about hating on AFSCs (not squadrons or offices) I think it's the 2T0 Packin and Crackin types you want to hate on.

BigBaze
08-24-2012, 01:19 AM
Yeah, those guys are a bunch of.... wait just one f-ing minute. I have never stood around a piano and sang.

Speaking for FE's, all of us were guys that were unhappy with our career fields and did something about it. We retrained. It's easy to hate on us. We love our jobs. And the extra 400 bones in our checks didn't hurt either.

I am an FE, my post was in sarcasm:)

golfer55
08-24-2012, 03:25 AM
Somebody has to pass out blankets and pillows to the space-a folks.

Did you know that those numbers above their patches (1,000-1,500-2,000-2,500 etc) stand for how many meals they have served. Somebody mentioned flight hours...but we all know the truth

Forsaken Wombat
08-24-2012, 03:30 AM
You must be at a pretty slow base then because I see all the OPREP reports and the significant events reports generated by the FD on a daily basis. If you think they are washing trucks all day, you must be at one Sleepy Hollow of an assignment.

Discipline problems also have to do with the base, but I'm pretty sure the FD is one of the largest, if not the largest Flight in CE, so it makes sense they would probably have the most.

As far as barriers go, can't say I blame them. If it was me who was having to get up in the middle of the night to do someone else's job, I'd damn well be taking the credit for it too.

I be careful about saying you want the FD, EOD, and EM going to their own squadron...go ask the CE Commander if he would like that. I bet he says, "Not just No, but HELL NO!", because he knows if that were to actually happen, at least half of his budget or more leaves with them.

Reports generated by the Fire Department that show them as singular Heroes of the Day when it comes to alarm calls, engine run-ups, and a "burning smell" from a light fixture that turns out to be some Airman overcooking their ramen noodles? Say it isn't so!!

Operations Flight is the largest (and hardest working) flight in CE.

As far as barriers go, that was a requirement from back in the day when the tape had asbetos in it and FD had the respirators. The asbestos is gone, but the FD still wants that bullet :hand

JD2780
08-24-2012, 03:32 AM
Maybe everybody else should have patches showing how many hours we havent spent actually working. Like in the last 4 yrs, the amount of time I have spent actually instructing on ranges, in simulators, and in the classroom exceeded 4,000 hrs. Maybe I should rock that patch. Dweebs.

grimreaper
08-24-2012, 04:26 AM
Reports generated by the Fire Department that show them as singular Heroes of the Day when it comes to alarm calls, engine run-ups, and a "burning smell" from a light fixture that turns out to be some Airman overcooking their ramen noodles? Say it isn't so!!

Sorry, but the events you describe don't generate OPREP reports or make significant events logs that go to the WG/CC, MAJCOM, and HAF.


Operations Flight is the largest (and hardest working) flight in CE.

In your opinion...but I'm glad you have loyalty to your shop/Flight. I could really careless that you want to call the FD and other shops in CE lazy idiots or not...doesn't affect me in the least. But from where I sit, I see data everyday that says you're wrong. Like I said, must be your base.


As far as barriers go, that was a requirement from back in the day when the tape had asbetos in it and FD had the respirators. The asbestos is gone, but the FD still wants that bullet :hand

Yeah, I bet their are just thrilled about getting up in the middle of the night to go do other people's jobs. Go tell them that they don't need to go out anymore and I'm willing to bet you that they don't put up a fight. The CE, OG, and WG/CC's might have a problem with it though.

Forsaken Wombat
08-24-2012, 04:34 AM
Sorry, but the events you describe don't generate OPREP reports or make significant events logs that go to the WG/CC, MAJCOM, and HAF.



In your opinion...but I'm glad you have loyalty to your shop/Flight. I could really careless that you want to call the FD and other shops in CE lazy idiots or not...doesn't affect me in the least. But from where I sit, I see data everyday that says you're wrong. Like I said, must be your base.


Yeah, I bet their are just thrilled about getting up in the middle of the night to go do other people's jobs. Go tell them that they don't need to go out anymore and I'm willing to bet you that they don't put up a fight. The CE, OG, and WG/CC's might have a problem with it though.

Hey, Guy. It's in the CDCs...Operations is the largest flight & Heavy Repair is the largest element within that flight. Me thinks someone didn't do so well on their SKT...:eyebrows

As for your HHQ reports, that must be YOUR base where everyone is sick & dying and the infrastructure is constantly catching fire or falling on people. I would HATE to be there. Otherwise, every FD I have known has been an expert in watching DVDs, washing trucks, and lifting weights while shotgunning creatine shakes. All day.

It's Fire Department; they are never thrilled about doing anyone else's job. Hell they barely do their own! But I would bet an LES that even if it were Power Pro guys doing 100% of that work, the FD would find a way to wiggle themselves into a Super Bullet that knocked everyone out of Quarterly/Annual contention.

Have a beer and relax - CES and Fire Department get along like cats and water. Nothing new and it will never go out of style. That is until ya'll are completely turned into WG/GS positions :D

grimreaper
08-24-2012, 05:03 AM
Hey, Guy. It's in the CDCs...Operations is the largest flight & Heavy Repair is the largest element within that flight. Me thinks someone didn't do so well on their SKT...:eyebrows

My days of testing SKT have been over for a number of years, and the CE Operations Flight is not the largest at every base.



As for your HHQ reports, that must be YOUR base where everyone is sick & dying and the infrastructure is constantly catching fire or falling on people. I would HATE to be there.

Unfortunately, that's life, and that's why there is a Fire Department. No worries though...sounds like your base could just get rid of them and nobody would know the difference...that is until it's your house that's a burnin' or you're the one in that car accident.


It's Fire Department; they are never thrilled about doing anyone else's job. Hell they barely do their own! But I would bet an LES that even if it were Power Pro guys doing 100% of that work, the FD would find a way to wiggle themselves into a Super Bullet that knocked everyone out of Quarterly/Annual contention.

I say good on 'em then. That's called a Chief looking out for his people. If your's isn't good enough to do that, maybe the problem is in your shop? I'm sure you've been around long enough to know that 90% of stuff on EPR's, Decs, and awards is bullshit anyway.


Nothing new and it will never go out of style. That is until ya'll are completely turned into WG/GS positions :D

Pretty sure they would welcome that. More pay, less work, and no deployments.:thumb

giggawatt
08-24-2012, 08:43 AM
You must be at a pretty slow base then because I see all the OPREP reports and the significant events reports generated by the FD on a daily basis. If you think they are washing trucks all day, you must be at one Sleepy Hollow of an assignment.

Discipline problems also have to do with the base, but I'm pretty sure the FD is one of the largest, if not the largest Flight in CE, so it makes sense they would probably have the most.

As far as barriers go, can't say I blame them. If it was me who was having to get up in the middle of the night to do someone else's job, I'd damn well be taking the credit for it too.

I be careful about saying you want the FD, EOD, and EM going to their own squadron...go ask the CE Commander if he would like that. I bet he says, "Not just No, but HELL NO!", because he knows if that were to actually happen, at least half of his budget or more leaves with them.

All I'm saying is that perception is reality. I've been at 1 slow base. 2 high ops tempo fighter bases and a HQ USAFE base. I've seen the OPREPs. Most of the time, they're reporting comm going down at a GSU or a jet backing into a HAS causing damage. But I have seen the ones about a guy getting hit by a train while riding his bike or fatal vehicle crashes.

Who do you think is out there in the middle of the night with you guys during engagements? It sure as hell isn't the FD putting that barrier back in service. Trust me. Power pro would gladly take those duties away from you. They do it 100 times better anyway.

F16TSgt
08-24-2012, 12:02 PM
I personally can't stand Red Horse, always building stuff downrange and those silly red hats...:biggrin

I don't hate any one career field but if there is one that will aggrivate me is Weapons. For some reason, they can't function in any sort of way unless there are three of them. Also, good luck getting any food if the squadron has a burger burn...they usually eat everything before Crew Chiefs and Specs even know about the cookout. But besides that, I've known some awesome folks in that AFSC, its just fun to give them shit.

imported_chipotleboy
08-24-2012, 01:13 PM
Apologies to OtisRNeedleman and BRUWIN, but I'd have to say the 14N and 1N O&E intel AFSCs. I've never met more people with razor blades in their shoes out to get each other and everyone around them. This community is notorious for eating their young, and everything is looked at from a political angle.

ske4za
08-24-2012, 01:25 PM
1C6X1 Space Systems Operations (my current one) - Well no more flight suits for us desk pilots so I can't complain there. Eight hours max, inside, as long a lunch as I want. I do half the work as my last job, 2A, but get three times the praise. I just read this entire forum without a single person asking me what I was doing. I tested PME only and made Tech in less than nine years. I get to go to the gym anytime I want. I just finished a sweet four month TDY to Manhattan Beach CA. I'm considered "deployed in place" so no more sand box fun for me. Seriously, I'm surprised I'm not the most hated AFSC in the AF. Oh yeah, that’s right, hardly anybody knows we exist. God I love my job.

That is crap. I know you are out there practicing avoidance maneuvers. And officers praise you after you do your job?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfAHw1kTpvY

Absinthe Anecdote
08-24-2012, 01:44 PM
That is crap. I know you are out there practicing avoidance maneuvers. And officers praise you after you do your job?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfAHw1kTpvY

I like the holograms the space weanies were playing with when the crisis kicked off.

The commercial with the C-17 looking thing than turns into a transformer robot and then lands at the wrong airfield is much better.

Capt Alfredo
08-24-2012, 05:15 PM
Apologies to OtisRNeedleman and BRUWIN, but I'd have to say the 14N and 1N O&E intel AFSCs. I've never met more people with razor blades in their shoes out to get each other and everyone around them. This community is notorious for eating their young, and everything is looked at from a political angle.

What? We're all kind and gentle and never, ever, mock the stupid, lazy, or weak.

imported_chipotleboy
08-24-2012, 05:38 PM
What? We're all kind and gentle and never, ever, mock the stupid, lazy, or weak.

I served two assignments in the IC as a 61D (Physicist/Nuclear Engineer). The difference between the IC and the rest of the world is that in the IC, you argue a "position", (which is often politically determined), while the rest of the world tries to discover the truth, knowing that competition and peer review will eventually lead to the right answer. Seeing how assessments were performed and disagreements resolved by anything but the facts, I wasn't surprised to see the Iraqi WMD fiasco turn out the way it did.

The IC has reached out to me by name twice to come back, but I prefer to work in a world of objective truth.

BSflag
08-24-2012, 07:45 PM
That is crap. I know you are out there practicing avoidance maneuvers. And officers praise you after you do your job?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfAHw1kTpvY

You should see my coin rack just from the past 2 years in space. I actually ran into the "collision avoided sir" Airman at Vandenberg, pun intended.

OtisRNeedleman
08-24-2012, 07:51 PM
Apologies to OtisRNeedleman and BRUWIN, but I'd have to say the 14N and 1N O&E intel AFSCs. I've never met more people with razor blades in their shoes out to get each other and everyone around them. This community is notorious for eating their young, and everything is looked at from a political angle. Sadly, I don't doubt it. Saw some of it as a flight commander in Korea, first assignment as a butter-bar. I was happy to leave what was then Electronic Security Command and return to ATC. Stayed in ATC for the next nine years. Believe it or not, I went further in ATC and did more there than I could ever have done in ESC. Had to go back to what they then called Air Force Intel Command when I had to go to Fort Meade. AFIC promptly showed me how much they thought I was worth to them when they gave me a P for major in the primary zone. But the laugh was on them...still got promoted. After the Fort Meade tour escaped AFIC for good by going to DLI and falling under the 11th Wing (HQ USAF).

BSflag
08-24-2012, 07:57 PM
I like the holograms the space weanies were playing with when the crisis kicked off.

The commercial with the C-17 looking thing than turns into a transformer robot and then lands at the wrong airfield is much better.

They took the hologram projector out of the budget along with the flight suits. In reality nothing happens that fast in Space Command, to many people have to have their input in order for something like that to take place. When I got back from Tech School all of my MXT buddies kept poking my spings (space wings) and saying "collision avoided sir, collision avoided sir". I even had pilots stopping me and asking what functional badge it was. I'm actually scared to run into my MXT friends these days because I don’t want to shake hands with them. They will feel how soft and supple my space hands are and pick on me relentlessly. Oh yeah, while you’re on crew, you only work about 15 days out of the month, Space fucking rocks!

imported_chipotleboy
08-24-2012, 08:18 PM
Sadly, I don't doubt it. Saw some of it as a flight commander in Korea, first assignment as a butter-bar. I was happy to leave what was then Electronic Security Command and return to ATC. Stayed in ATC for the next nine years. Believe it or not, I went further in ATC and did more there than I could ever have done in ESC. Had to go back to what they then called Air Force Intel Command when I had to go to Fort Meade. AFIC promptly showed me how much they thought I was worth to them when they gave me a P for major in the primary zone. But the laugh was on them...still got promoted. After the Fort Meade tour escaped AFIC for good by going to DLI and falling under the 11th Wing (HQ USAF).

It looks like you got caught up in the anti-prior service mentality going on back then. I remember the initial targets for the 1992 officer RIF included eliminating 50% of all prior service officers, regardless of year group. Later, they removed prior-service as a category they tracked, but the RIF outcome was still disproportionate. It seemed most of the vulnerable people in the 1980-85 reserve commission officers were prior enlisted -- which was probably a factor in the nonselection at their regular commission boards then held at the 4 & 7 year point (with the board thinking "why not INVEST it in someone who will be around longer?"). Same attitudes probably applied to DPs for promotion selection boards.

grimreaper
08-24-2012, 08:20 PM
Who do you think is out there in the middle of the night with you guys during engagements? It sure as hell isn't the FD putting that barrier back in service. Trust me. Power pro would gladly take those duties away from you. They do it 100 times better anyway.

With "you guys"? I'm not out there. Never have been. I'm not in the FD or even CE for that matter. I've just been around them, meaning the FD and other CE AFSC's enough to know what they do and what they don't do. And I do know for a fact that the the FD has been called out, sometimes several times in a night, to either take a barrier down, or put it back up with no Power Pro to be seen.

OtisRNeedleman
08-24-2012, 08:29 PM
It looks like you got caught up in the anti-prior service mentality going on back then. I remember the initial targets for the 1992 officer RIF included eliminating 50% of all prior service officers, regardless of year group. Later, they removed prior-service as a category they tracked, but the RIF outcome was still disproportionate. It seemed most of the vulnerable people in the 1980-85 reserve commission officers were prior enlisted -- which was probably a factor in the nonselection at their regular commission boards then held at the 4 & 7 year point (with the board thinking "why not INVEST it in someone who will be around longer?"). Same attitudes probably applied to DPs for promotion selection boards.

Yup. Wasn't subject to RIF due to having a regular commission, but you nailed it re prior service. Knew some other guys who got P's and they were all prior enlisted. And in my case had been out of their command for nine years. Like to think would have gotten a DP if I'd still been at HQ ATC. They took very good care of me there.

justachillin
08-25-2012, 05:24 PM
With "you guys"? I'm not out there. Never have been. I'm not in the FD or even CE for that matter. I've just been around them, meaning the FD and other CE AFSC's enough to know what they do and what they don't do. And I do know for a fact that the the FD has been called out, sometimes several times in a night, to either take a barrier down, or put it back up with no Power Pro to be seen.

Lol the only reason the the FD is out there is because of the IFE. FD hooks up the barrier but doesn't certify it. At least that's the way it was when I was in the barrier shop. Half the time they can't even hook it up right. Most of the times I made it to the pit before the FD was even out there and that was from my house.

grimreaper
08-25-2012, 05:46 PM
Lol the only reason the the FD is out there is because of the IFE. FD hooks up the barrier but doesn't certify it. At least that's the way it was when I was in the barrier shop. Half the time they can't even hook it up right. Most of the times I made it to the pit before the FD was even out there and that was from my house.

The only reason YOU are out there is the IFE. Jets without problems don't catch barriers unless it's for a certification. Sorry bro, but I used to work ATC and now do Airfield Management. I know everyone who's out there...when, and why.

And as I already stated, I've seen numerous cases of the FD either taking it down or putting it back up without you guys being out there. Putting it up or taking down the barrier has nothing to do with an IFE. Am I really explaining this to a Power Pro Troopie?

E&ECubsFan
08-26-2013, 04:57 PM
As a maintainer, I would agree with you 90%; most of them I knew were jerky schmucks, who forgot we weren't in HS anymore, but a small handful were just great all around guys, as family men, as workers, as professionals (even if only for having the most face time with pilots), and friends. They sometimes aren't the most intelligent troops (hence, the "nose pickers" moniker) but ALL of them would work as hard as they had to. If they didn't, they'd get sent to support, quickly, so as to retro actively prevent accidents. But, the one shop that typically has the MOST work is E&E, the electricians: red-headed step children of the flight line; first to go to work, last to put their tools up. If the CC's, weapons, engines, and even fuels can't find it or duplicate it - "kick it to E&E!". Anyway, Rick Dickulous over there sounds like a true "noner" talking smack like that. Flat out, if your job is indoors, you ain't got $#!t on flight line MX!

BOSS302
08-26-2013, 10:19 PM
Flat out, if your job is indoors, you ain't got $#!t on flight line MX!

Then flight line MX can process their own military pay, conduct their own annual dental cleaning, process their own military assignment/training actions with functionals and AFPC, take care of their own logistics/supply, etc.

UH1FE
08-27-2013, 12:16 AM
Damn near can now its call Mypay, Micare, vMPF, and the person with impact card!

Absinthe Anecdote
08-27-2013, 01:04 AM
That image of MX guys out on the flight line cleaning each other's teeth is pretty funny. :-)

TIMBERLAND722
08-27-2013, 01:18 AM
HEY DIP$#!+S! AMMO HERE! The Top 10 AFSC's Most Worthy of The Gen. Merril McPeak Rising Dirtstar Award.

10. Any Medical Career Field. Notorious for Booster Clubs and Bake Sales. Also, cake hours and are off on, Weekends, Down Days, Holidays, Canadian Holidays, Chinese New Years, Obama's Dogs Baptism and the 2nd and 4th Tuesday through Friday of every month for "training". Should all be consolidated to "The Motrin Group".
9. EOD. WE MAKE THE EFFIN' BOMBS! WHY FOR YOU BLOW THEM UP?!? ON PURPOSE?!? (Joking. They are cool.)
8. Finance. I hope you tards never work in a civilian bank. Ever. Makes me think the IRS is nothing but former Finance "Troops".
7. Fuels. We just dont mix. Never liked you....and you never liked us. Always a race to see who can get to a jet first so the loser doesnt sit 50 feet away for 2 hours.
6. Whatever AFSC that runs the $#!+ter truck to clean the jet's crappers. You stink. Literally. For some reason, all gingers.
5. Crew Chiefs. "OH NO! THIS JET HAS A SCRATCH ON IT! DOWNLOAD ALL THE AMMO!!! WAAAARRRGAAARRRBBBLLLL!!!!"
4. Cops. Douchebags Immemorial. Thinks they're the most bad ass of non-combat career fields. "YOU WENT 31 in a 30! TICKET!" Shove your fairy-@$$ Frenchie Hat up your balloon knots.
3. AGE. For once could you give us something that A. Doesn't explode when we touch it, B. Has gas, C. Doesn't make sounds like the effin' Road Warrior, and/or D. Spews crap everywhere?
2. (Not really an AFSC, but...) SARC/EO (and legit AFSC) Legal. I'm one Commanders Call Briefing away from being suicidal, going on a stabbing rampage, snorting coke, descriminating against DeShawn and Juanita and giving a General Power of Attorney to my wife!
1. Loaders. Eff you. Our eternal rivals. You Douche-barges are the bane of our very existence. How can it possibly take 4 hours to load a jet? Or one crew be available for an entire squadron? In the words of Ray Finkle's mother, "I hope you catch Gonhorrea and burn in Hell."

Absinthe Anecdote
08-27-2013, 01:22 AM
WTF?

Did Robot Chicken's son join the Air Force?

grimreaper
08-27-2013, 01:31 AM
WTF?

Did Robot Chicken's son join the Air Force?

LOL, looks like it, but the post is missing the key ingredient...about 25 smilies.

TIMBERLAND722
08-27-2013, 02:06 AM
grim, real AFSC's don't use smilies. (Walks away from the explosion)

imported_AFKILO7
08-27-2013, 02:17 AM
IYAAYAPI (If You Aint Ammo You Are Probably Intelligent)

nuff said.


:fear

TIMBERLAND722
08-27-2013, 02:31 AM
Yup. Sorry for not having the mental capacity to properly host a 5K or how to frost a cupcake...

imported_AFKILO7
08-27-2013, 02:43 AM
That makes two of us. At least I won't be alone in not seeking E8 and E9

grimreaper
08-27-2013, 03:12 AM
I'm not sure what RC's AFSC is...anyone know?

Absinthe Anecdote
08-27-2013, 04:31 AM
I'm not sure what RC's AFSC is...anyone know?

You mean his Navy rating? I'm pretty sure he was a back-ender on a P-3 for at least part of his time. He would have made a swell ammo troop though.

Juggs
09-02-2013, 07:40 PM
grim, real AFSC's don't use smilies. (Walks away from the explosion)

Actually real AFSCs dont walk away from explosions. We cause them. Oh, and we use the shit out of smiley faces.

USAF TACP!!!!!

Eff ammo you're nerds

Eff cops, you're security guards

Finance, you're nerds but I'll keep you happy to keep my pay straight

Med group, I know you, I married one so keep my meds right and keep letting me get the secret appoints

Eff AMX, you're knuckle dragging jackasses that think the world revolves around you. I dont really know who is worse, you or fliers.

Personel, supply, Comm, I'll treat with respect to get what I need, if you stop giving me what I need I'll trash you.

SERE, boy scouts in camo that get unwarranted schools

Fire, you're alright by me.



Thats all really. I dont have much more beef with anybody else. Keep it real homies.

:nervous::spam::becky:clap2:smug::headbang::kev

Max Power
09-02-2013, 08:09 PM
Actually real AFSCs dont walk away from explosions. We cause them. Oh, and we use the shit out of smiley faces.

USAF TACP!!!!!

Eff ammo you're nerds

Eff cops, you're security guards

Finance, you're nerds but I'll keep you happy to keep my pay straight

Med group, I know you, I married one so keep my meds right and keep letting me get the secret appoints

Eff AMX, you're knuckle dragging jackasses that think the world revolves around you. I dont really know who is worse, you or fliers.

Personel, supply, Comm, I'll treat with respect to get what I need, if you stop giving me what I need I'll trash you.

SERE, boy scouts in camo that get unwarranted schools

Fire, you're alright by me.



Thats all really. I dont have much more beef with anybody else. Keep it real homies.

:nervous::spam::becky:clap2:smug::headbang::kev

You have always been a badass JD.

jondstewart
09-02-2013, 09:13 PM
Woooooooow!! Not a single bad thing, or anything for that matter, said about my career field when I was in!

We are the glorified janitors and short order cooks with more chiefs than Indians. Literally!

But seriously, where does Services fit in nowadays, other than the FSS merging? Over my 20 year period, at any given base or workplace, you more than likely had more civilians than military working there. In a deployed environment, you had TCN's or a contracting giant such as KBR or Fluor doing your job for you and you were usually stuck just handing out equipment or being a babysitter in the dining hall. Or there were exceptions, such as mine, where you went downrange or on a FOB and worked yourself to the bone many days and weren't sitting pretty like those at Bagram, Al Udeid, Manas, Bagdhad, etc.

TREYSLEDGE
09-03-2013, 12:26 PM
I've been assigned to bases with fighter pilots, bomber pilots, instructor pilots, and cargo pilots. No matter how whiney, or how many stupid ideas/requests, or how high and mighty they act they are no where near as bad as MISSILEERS.

It's as if they sit in that hole in the ground (only one day at a time, 2-3 times a month) and think up/or do stupid shit out of boredom or asshattery. If you push back they go direct to the group or wing leadership saying ______ squadron is not supporting the nuclear mission. And most of them say nuculer! (Thanks Homer Simpson for protecting our country).

After they repeatedly called out crews for emergencies on the weekends for clogged toilets in the capsule (the best was on Thanksgiving) I took a bag of the papertowels, plastic glove and sharpie that were flushed down by the asshole missile crew to their DO and said we will not respond to another clogged toilet after duty hours because they are the ones clogging them. Just one of many.

A missileer's wife told my wife that missileers have the hardest job in the Air Force because of the importance of nukes (guess her husband had her drinking the missileer cool-aid). My wife said have your husband go to war for 6 months then go again after only being home for 6 months then she can talk. She did not respond.

Juggs
09-04-2013, 11:34 PM
Woooooooow!! Not a single bad thing, or anything for that matter, said about my career field when I was in!

We are the glorified janitors and short order cooks with more chiefs than Indians. Literally!

But seriously, where does Services fit in nowadays, other than the FSS merging? Over my 20 year period, at any given base or workplace, you more than likely had more civilians than military working there. In a deployed environment, you had TCN's or a contracting giant such as KBR or Fluor doing your job for you and you were usually stuck just handing out equipment or being a babysitter in the dining hall. Or there were exceptions, such as mine, where you went downrange or on a FOB and worked yourself to the bone many days and weren't sitting pretty like those at Bagram, Al Udeid, Manas, Bagdhad, etc.

I got nothing but good things to say about most services folks. They're good folks.

akruse
09-05-2013, 06:07 AM
Woooooooow!! Not a single bad thing, or anything for that matter, said about my career field when I was in!

We are the glorified janitors and short order cooks with more chiefs than Indians. Literally!

But seriously, where does Services fit in nowadays, other than the FSS merging? Over my 20 year period, at any given base or workplace, you more than likely had more civilians than military working there. In a deployed environment, you had TCN's or a contracting giant such as KBR or Fluor doing your job for you and you were usually stuck just handing out equipment or being a babysitter in the dining hall. Or there were exceptions, such as mine, where you went downrange or on a FOB and worked yourself to the bone many days and weren't sitting pretty like those at Bagram, Al Udeid, Manas, Bagdhad, etc.

You were in Afghanistan? On a FOB? Holy crap. When were you there? Did you see some shit?

jondstewart
09-05-2013, 07:21 PM
You were in Afghanistan? On a FOB? Holy crap. When were you there? Did you see some shit?

Well, sort of. The first 3-4 months I was at the FOB we got attacked or attempted attack 2-3 times a week on average. But between September and early April 2007 just before I left, nothing happened. 2 of our people that were Army Civil Affairs died in a convoy just outside the U.S. Embassy in Kabul and one of them was the oldest woman ever to die in combat, SFC Meredith Howard

I was pretty lucky and only left the wire twice the whole year, outside of going home for R and R, and that was just a couple of local drives

Juggs
09-05-2013, 07:24 PM
Well, sort of. The first 3-4 months I was at the FOB we got attacked or attempted attack 2-3 times a week on average. But between September and early April 2007 just before I left, nothing happened. 2 of our people that were Army Civil Affairs died in a convoy just outside the U.S. Embassy in Kabul and one of them was the oldest woman ever to die in combat, SFC Meredith Howard

I was pretty lucky and only left the wire twice the whole year, outside of going home for R and R, and that was just a couple of local drives

You didn't see the mockery did you?

20+Years
09-05-2013, 09:10 PM
You didn't see the mockery did you?

lol... FSS gets so forgotten about. Now go cook my dinner.

Chief_KO
09-06-2013, 03:35 AM
The saddest site to see is a newly minted 2Lt services officer. Sad in that he/she is paid the same as any other 2Lt, sad that he/she graduated college/received a commission, sad that they will very likely separate as soon as the complete their commitment.

PburghNo1
09-06-2013, 01:04 PM
The saddest site to see is a newly minted 2Lt services officer. Sad in that he/she is paid the same as any other 2Lt, sad that he/she graduated college/received a commission, sad that they will very likely separate as soon as the complete their commitment.

Enlighten me...why sad?

Dickie
09-06-2013, 01:52 PM
Enlighten me...why sad?

It is a waste of an officer billet that could go to something else, logistics, mx or ops. Services officers merged with personnel and manpower officers into 38P Personnel Officers. Similar to the LRO concept. Move the officers around from services to personnel to manpower to be "well rounded". when really not learning the functions very deeply. The whole jack of all trades, master of none thing. This already clearly illistrates to me that at the highest echelons, these officers are not concidered important in any way and therefore an expendible line item on a UMD to move elseware.

They really serve no point until they get to higher ranks, just so we can have commanders of our FSS units. The Lts, Capts and young Majors more or less just get in the way. Just another layer in the machine to work around or though to get my noner job done.

Pullinteeth
09-06-2013, 02:02 PM
It is a waste of an officer billet that could go to something else, logistics, mx or ops. Services officers merged with personnel and manpower officers into 38P Personnel Officers. Similar to the LRO concept. Move the officers around from services to personnel to manpower to be "well rounded". when really not learning the functions very deeply. The whole jack of all trades, master of none thing. This already clearly illistrates to me that at the highest echelons, these officers are not concidered important in anyway and therefore an expendible line item on a UMD to move elseware.

They really serve no point until they get to higher ranks, just so we can have commanders of our FSS units. The Lts, Capts and young Majors more or less just get in the way. Just another layer in the machine to work around or though to get my noner job done.

To be perfectly honest, the O-3s and below that actually DO anything could probably be counted ok, not on one hand but their AFSCs honestly couldn't either but... Unless they are a Flier, Medical Professional, or an Engineer, what does a Lt/Capt REALLY do? Besides try to stay out of the say?

PburghNo1
09-06-2013, 02:31 PM
It is a waste of an officer billet that could go to something else, logistics, mx or ops. Services officers merged with personnel and manpower officers into 38P Personnel Officers. Similar to the LRO concept. Move the officers around from services to personnel to manpower to be "well rounded". when really not learning the functions very deeply. The whole jack of all trades, master of none thing. This already clearly illistrates to me that at the highest echelons, these officers are not concidered important in anyway and therefore an expendible line item on a UMD to move elseware.

They really serve no point until they get to higher ranks, just so we can have commanders of our FSS units. The Lts, Capts and young Majors more or less just get in the way. Just another layer in the machine to work around or though to get my noner job done.

Serve no point, huh? Wow. You do know Commanders don't just grow on trees, right?

I clearly understand the Services and Personnel merger, however, I think you fail to see the bigger picture. How are 38P officers to learn anything about the core functions of FSS if they are not IN said functions? To learn them, movement and experience, even if brief, is required. After the cuts of the last few years, Lieutenants and Captains are thrust into leadership positions (i.e. a 1st Lt as an FSS OpsO--normally a Major's billet...and yes, it happens) much sooner than they had before. Would you rather them have not seen an area or have 6-12 months experience in that area and then rotating, before making decisions that affect a unit and base? If you have a good Squadron Commander, he or she will consider all of this when developing an officer's breadth of experience.

The "jack of all trades, master of none" concept can be applied to any career field in the Air Force. Consider Maintenance--avionics career fields have been merging and consolidating since I came in, exponentially growing their responsibilities and expected scope of knowledge...jack of all trades, master of none. Does that mean they are any less important? Of course not. Whether or not that's smart policy is a different conversation altogether.

Also, what do you mean by "This already clearly illistrates to me that at the highest echelons, these officers are not concidered important in anyway and therefore an expendible line item on a UMD to move elseware."? Are you saying that junior officers are unimportant because they are moved often to gain that breadth of experience? Because they don't sit in one position on the UMD like say, an intel officer might, they aren't considered important to higher echelons? I would venture to guess the AF/A1 (a personnel officer, by trade) might disagree.

PburghNo1
09-06-2013, 02:33 PM
To be perfectly honest, the O-3s and below that actually DO anything could probably be counted ok, not on one hand but their AFSCs honestly couldn't either but... Unless they are a Flier, Medical Professional, or an Engineer, what does a Lt/Capt REALLY do? Besides try to stay out of the say?

I can see this denegrating into an E vs. O argument, so I'll just say perception is not always reality.

Dickie
09-06-2013, 02:59 PM
I concede that CCs do not grow on trees and that it does take time to cultivate and mentor said officer to fill that imporatnt role. What I would like to say is that along the lines of your comment about gaining too much responsibility early is an issue. I did not say junior officers are unimportant (or personally without worth). I merely said they would possibly be more effective and a much better use of resources elseware. The continuous merging ang realigning of resources to do more with less is going to continue and become more frequent. It comes down to what Big Blue wants to pay for: officer for the FSS or one pilot or mx officer. A MSgt in the MPS or a MSgt in mx. Now, I am not saying that the officers are not important. They are important in our structure and how we fight. I am saying (back to an earlier comment) that they can be better used in other capacities and other functions than support. Maybe the FSS needs to go away alltoghther (or a major reorg and downsized) given that almost (not all) every function is online/automated or direct with AFPC. Cuts come from somewhere and support (as a whole) is and easy function to pick on due to the office nature of it and that so many civilians already do that job for us, including all the consoledations and reorgs.

RetC141BFCC
09-06-2013, 03:09 PM
For me Its Fighter Pilots. I worked AWACS, C141s and F15s. Fighter pilots are the worse. As a FCC on the C141 pilots would help load bags and treated the crew chief great. Fighter pilots think they are gods. How can you tell a fighter pilots at the party? Don't worry he or she will tell you.

PburghNo1
09-06-2013, 03:32 PM
I concede that CCs do not grow on trees and that it does take time to cultivate and mentor said officer to fill that imporatnt role. What I would like to say is that along the lines of your comment about gaining too much responsibility early is an issue. I did not say junior officers are unimportant (or personally without worth). I merely said they would possibly be more effective and a much better use of resources elseware. The continuous merging ang realigning of resources to do more with less is going to continue and become more frequent. It comes down to what Big Blue wants to pay for: officer for the FSS or one pilot or mx officer. A MSgt in the MPS or a MSgt in mx. Now, I am not saying that the officers are not important. They are important in our structure and how we fight. I am saying (back to an earlier comment) that they can be better used in other capacities and other functions than support. Maybe the FSS needs to go away alltoghther (or a major reorg and downsized) given that almost (not all) every function is online/automated or direct with AFPC. Cuts come from somewhere and support (as a whole) is and easy function to pick on due to the office nature of it and that so many civilians already do that job for us, including all the consoledations and reorgs.

I agree wholeheartedly that placing junior Airmen (officers and enlisted alike) in positions that they are unprepared for is an issue. Unfortunately, I don't see it changing with the current fiscal environment. I've never been one to advocate for eliminating the FSS as a whole. I think certain functions can (and should) be reorganized, (i.e. A&FRC and Manpower under the Wing Staff) and contracted (certain NAF functions--Golf/Bowling/Aero Club, etc.) but I think the core of FSS is customer service (I know, I know--it's not great everywhere...again, a different conversation) and there will never be a point where you can eliminate that altogether by automation or call centers--just look at the Ellsworth fiasco in Finance.

Understand that you may not have intended to say the junior officers themselves are without worth, but when you say their job is without worth--it's an easy jump to make. Though I think the Air Force desperately needs educated, competent and experienced HR personnel (and make no mistake, FSS/A1 etc, is the AF's HR enterprise), I can concede that support areas are the "low-hanging fruit" when it comes to cuts.

Sorry for the thread jack....

Chief_KO
09-06-2013, 10:25 PM
Enlighten me...why sad?

Sad with regards to the amount of $ spent on education (be it USAFA, OTS, or ROTC), sad that the vast majority separate (with pay) as early as possible, sad that they will be given all the $hit work that is "beneath" the other Os, sad that they will never get to sit at the big boy table at the O Club they run, sad they take the fall for MPF & mobility processing line SNAFUs.
Yes, Commanders are grown from O-1 (just as Chiefs are grown from E-1) and yes each position is necessary or it would not be on a UMD. I have respect for all Airmen and what they do...just my observation that some are put on a pedestal (sometimes deservingly) while others will always be in "support".

PburghNo1
09-09-2013, 01:15 PM
Sad with regards to the amount of $ spent on education (be it USAFA, OTS, or ROTC), sad that the vast majority separate (with pay) as early as possible, sad that they will be given all the $hit work that is "beneath" the other Os, sad that they will never get to sit at the big boy table at the O Club they run, sad they take the fall for MPF & mobility processing line SNAFUs.
Yes, Commanders are grown from O-1 (just as Chiefs are grown from E-1) and yes each position is necessary or it would not be on a UMD. I have respect for all Airmen and what they do...just my observation that some are put on a pedestal (sometimes deservingly) while others will always be in "support".

You're right, the hits do come for MPF, mobility processing, et. al.--that'll never change--everyone else thinks they can do your job better.

Maybe my experience is different. I've embraced what you call "$hit work." Maybe that comes from my prior E side--I like doing something other than sitting behind a desk and doing it with my Airmen shows them I'm not only able, but willing. I got a good piece of advice from my first supervisor when I was an Airman Basic--"Whatever they give you to do, own it and kill it. The opportunities will come." That said, I've also had my share of opportunities at the supposed "big boy" table. Thing is, that "big boy table" gets smaller and smaller as you go higher and higher and more often than not, there's a dress code. If you aren't wearing something with a zipper, you don't get a seat. It's not just the FSS guys that punch--I've seen LRO's, Mx O's, etc. all punch because of simliar reasons.

Juggs
09-09-2013, 02:32 PM
Serve no point, huh? Wow. You do know Commanders don't just grow on trees, right?

I clearly understand the Services and Personnel merger, however, I think you fail to see the bigger picture. How are 38P officers to learn anything about the core functions of FSS if they are not IN said functions? To learn them, movement and experience, even if brief, is required. After the cuts of the last few years, Lieutenants and Captains are thrust into leadership positions (i.e. a 1st Lt as an FSS OpsO--normally a Major's billet...and yes, it happens) much sooner than they had before. Would you rather them have not seen an area or have 6-12 months experience in that area and then rotating, before making decisions that affect a unit and base? If you have a good Squadron Commander, he or she will consider all of this when developing an officer's breadth of experience.

The "jack of all trades, master of none" concept can be applied to any career field in the Air Force. Consider Maintenance--avionics career fields have been merging and consolidating since I came in, exponentially growing their responsibilities and expected scope of knowledge...jack of all trades, master of none. Does that mean they are any less important? Of course not. Whether or not that's smart policy is a different conversation altogether.

Also, what do you mean by "This already clearly illistrates to me that at the highest echelons, these officers are not concidered important in anyway and therefore an expendible line item on a UMD to move elseware."? Are you saying that junior officers are unimportant because they are moved often to gain that breadth of experience? Because they don't sit in one position on the UMD like say, an intel officer might, they aren't considered important to higher echelons? I would venture to guess the AF/A1 (a personnel officer, by trade) might disagree.


Except for tacps. Those guys are ninjas at everything thing they do. Even sex. Damn ninjas rangers

OtisRNeedleman
09-09-2013, 11:14 PM
To be perfectly honest, the O-3s and below that actually DO anything could probably be counted ok, not on one hand but their AFSCs honestly couldn't either but... Unless they are a Flier, Medical Professional, or an Engineer, what does a Lt/Capt REALLY do? Besides try to stay out of the say?

Whoa, whoa. As a butter-bar SIGINT officer in Korea I commanded a flight of 80 US, 12 ROK, and two facilities during my shift. If the shit hit the fan after the day weenies' duty I would have acted as unit commander until someone at a higher echelon showed up. I was doing my wartime job. And there were fellow butter-bars commanding much larger flights, at places like Misawa and Chicksands. With less than a year as an O-3 I was chief of operations and training for what was then the largest technical training group in the AF. Fast forward nine months, and I'm at HQ ATC doing a major's job as command acquisition manager, with ZERO background and training in systems acquisition, for $150 million in large-scale computer-based intelligence training systems. You don't get picked to handle challenging jobs by just staying out of the way. I'm sure there are plenty of company-grade officers out there who are engaged, not just staying out of the way.

Pullinteeth
09-10-2013, 12:30 AM
Whoa, whoa. As a butter-bar SIGINT officer in Korea I commanded a flight of 80 US, 12 ROK, and two facilities during my shift. If the shit hit the fan after the day weenies' duty I would have acted as unit commander until someone at a higher echelon showed up. I was doing my wartime job. And there were fellow butter-bars commanding much larger flights, at places like Misawa and Chicksands. With less than a year as an O-3 I was chief of operations and training for what was then the largest technical training group in the AF. Fast forward nine months, and I'm at HQ ATC doing a major's job as command acquisition manager, with ZERO background and training in systems acquisition, for $150 million in large-scale computer-based intelligence training systems. You don't get picked to handle challenging jobs by just staying out of the way. I'm sure there are plenty of company-grade officers out there who are engaged, not just staying out of the way.

Yadda yadda yadda... You can't take this shit personal. Take an objective look and tell me the value... Bunch of Lts and Capts.... They are basically bitchchildren until they make Maj or are a Sr Capt... You know it and I know it. What YOU did isn't exactly relevant because it is the exception not the rule. What do you call an XO? An overpaid enlisted aide... What do you call a OIC? Overpaid NCOIC or super... Nothing against officers-honestly. If I hadn't been putting people in boots and finished my degree six months earlier, I would have put in for a commission. I myself have put in over 100 officers into the USAF so I would say I have a fairly good idea of what it takes to be an officer. Did YOU know that you can do Cocaine and be an officer but can't be enlisted? Look it up-AFI 36-2005/AFRSI 36-2001/AFRCI 36-2001(not sure of the ANGI sorry...)

imported_Renazance
09-12-2013, 10:42 AM
Yadda yadda yadda... You can't take this shit personal. Take an objective look and tell me the value... Bunch of Lts and Capts.... They are basically bitchchildren until they make Maj or are a Sr Capt... You know it and I know it. What YOU did isn't exactly relevant because it is the exception not the rule. What do you call an XO? An overpaid enlisted aide... What do you call a OIC? Overpaid NCOIC or super... Nothing against officers-honestly. If I hadn't been putting people in boots and finished my degree six months earlier, I would have put in for a commission. I myself have put in over 100 officers into the USAF so I would say I have a fairly good idea of what it takes to be an officer. Did YOU know that you can do Cocaine and be an officer but can't be enlisted? Look it up-AFI 36-2005/AFRSI 36-2001/AFRCI 36-2001(not sure of the ANGI sorry...)

That's because they need to be coked up to keep up with all the politicos and their associated BS.

Mastercone
09-24-2013, 01:17 AM
My thinking is that the 9J000 AFSC is by far the most undesirable ever. Yet, anyone is eligible to voluntarily cross train into this special duty AFSC.

BENDER56
09-24-2013, 08:25 PM
My thinking is that the 9J000 AFSC is by far the most undesirable ever. Yet, anyone is eligible to voluntarily cross train into this special duty AFSC.

I think most are non-vols.