PDA

View Full Version : Most SRB's Gone



rich182x
07-30-2012, 10:15 PM
http://www.ramstein.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123311474

GREAT! I leave to retrain into 1n1B on August 19th. One of the reasons most people decide to retrain is because these slots are critically manned and want to serve their country in these slots. Another big reason is because of the bonus, and now that's being taken away from most?! Many enlist to also get the benefit of receiving free healthcare for the duration of their enlistment and longer for retirees (well it use to be). With Obamacare coming into affect, what incentives are there other than serving honorably? Enlisted is the last place money should be taken away and it will be shown with reduction of ranks leaving for the civilian sector. Nice job, I see a draft coming when the next war hits...

Comments?

Tak
07-30-2012, 10:20 PM
Thank god! It's time end ALL of them...

load.toad
07-31-2012, 01:23 AM
Thank god! It's time end ALL of them...

BAM! Agreed.
SRB justifications are usually unfounded and inconsistant. All get an SRB, or nobody gets one IMO. "Dangerous Job" You get hazard duty pay. "Great job opportunities in civilian sector" Good for you, get out and let someone who wants to be here work. "need to retain SME's" Stop over working them and they will gladly stay. I am more jealous than anything. Cops work 14hr day, and finance gets paid the same. Fighter Crew Chiefs work 14s in the rain without lunch, get paid same as the guy handing you a basket ball at the gym. Why should one get paid $70,000 to reup, and the other gets a high 5? Military isn't a democracy, we are all suppose to be the same. Same hair cut, same clothes, same way of speaking..SAME PAY!

FE Buckeye Pride
07-31-2012, 02:07 AM
2A5X1 - removal of Zone A, B, and C?....Good luck USAF on finding retention of solid maintainers without any bonuses. You are screwing over the largest sector. Medical? Cut em, we can hire civilians if need be. Cops? We already use civilians. We can't hire civilian C-130 MX.

Edit: If they seriously want to keep the MX guys/girls around, they better start giving them some Hazard Pay, especially when you're hooking up the Senor Ops, Cops, and Med Techs.

tiredretiredE7
07-31-2012, 02:14 AM
2A5X1 - removal of Zone A, B, and C?....Good luck USAF on finding retention of solid maintainers without any bonuses. You are screwing over the largest sector. Medical? Cut em, we can hire civilians if need be. Cops? We already use civilians. We can't hire civilian C-130 MX.

Hill AFB has CIVILIAN C-130 MX.

SomeRandomGuy
07-31-2012, 02:16 AM
2A5X1 - removal of Zone A, B, and C?....Good luck USAF on finding retention of solid maintainers without any bonuses. You are screwing over the largest sector. Medical? Cut em, we can hire civilians if need be. Cops? We already use civilians. We can't hire civilian C-130 MX.

I will bite! Why can't we hire civilian mechanics? Are you saying that in the real world we have cops, medical, etc but there are no mechanics? If I am not mistaken people who become C-130MX were at one point civilians. So in effect we already have hired civilians to do the job. Now if you wouldn't mind hopping off of the soapbox I would appreciate it. I have laundry to do.

FE Buckeye Pride
07-31-2012, 02:18 AM
Hill AFB has CIVILIAN C-130 MX.

C-130's at Hill are also both a test base and Reserves. You have to have deployable military C-130 MX. You can't man as many bases - both deployed and state side without military.

FE Buckeye Pride
07-31-2012, 02:24 AM
I will bite! Why can't we hire civilian mechanics? Are you saying that in the real world we have cops, medical, etc but there are no mechanics? If I am not mistaken people who become C-130MX were at one point civilians. So in effect we already have hired civilians to do the job. Now if you wouldn't mind hopping off of the soapbox I would appreciate it. I have laundry to do.

Soapbox? Why because I chose to express my feelings about a career field getting their bonuses cut? Im not even a maintainer dumb-dumb.

Also, there are just certain jobs where having a civilian works - doctors, dentists, cops. Maintainers need to be military if only for the fact that they need to be deployable at any given time in support of military operations. They need to be able to work between 8-12 hours any day without having to call their union, get permission, pay the overtime. Its a cheaper way to have the needed personnel work the hours the mission requires at any given time.

load.toad
07-31-2012, 02:26 AM
C-130's at Hill are also both a test base and Reserves. You have to have deployable military C-130 MX. You can't man as many bases - both deployed and state side without military.

Never saw deployed civilian RQ-1 maintainers?? Guess those guys just had shaving waivers.

FE Buckeye Pride
07-31-2012, 02:28 AM
Never saw deployed civilian RQ-1 maintainers?? Guess those guys just had shaving waivers.

RQ-1? Nope, never interacted with UAV guys at all. Im a C-130 Flight Eng, not at a base anywhere near those things down in Creech. Sorry bud.

Besides fixing an RQ-1 vs a Herc is like working on a high tech go kart vs a 1960's mac truck.

SomeRandomGuy
07-31-2012, 02:33 AM
Soapbox? Why because I chose to express my feelings about a career field getting their bonuses cut? Im not even a maintainer dumb-dumb.

Also, there are just certain jobs where having a civilian works - doctors, dentists, cops. Maintainers need to be military if only for the fact that they need to be deployable at any given time in support of military operations. They need to be able to work between 8-12 hours any day without having to call their union, get permission, pay the overtime. Its a cheaper way to have the needed personnel work the hours the mission requires at any given time.

You make it sound like the only job that deploys or works long hours is maintenance. The reason their bonus got cut is the same reason other bonuses get cut. Once enough people apply for a CJR the AF knows they do not need a bonus for that career field. Cutting the bonus for C130X is not going too make a difference. If anything it just gets rid of the people who only wanted to re-enlist for the money.

3 years ago I was given a little over $10K to re-enlist in finance. We had a 1 multiplier for zone A and a 2 for zone B. I knew a lot of other people who re-enlisted and got a bonus. Everyone I knew was happy about the bonus but would have re-enlisted without it. Bonuses are needed in some career fields but they are way overused. In my opinion the only AFSC that should get bonuses are the ones with extremely long tech school (a year or longer) or jobs that have a hard to fill skill such as linguist, EOD, or TACP. Just my opinion and that is coming from a guy who did get a bonus but honestly did not really deserve it. As a first termer I was pretty easily replaceable and would have reenlisted anyways.

jazzcat23
07-31-2012, 02:35 AM
2A5X1 - removal of Zone A, B, and C?....Good luck USAF on finding retention of solid maintainers without any bonuses. You are screwing over the largest sector. Medical? Cut em, we can hire civilians if need be. Cops? We already use civilians. We can't hire civilian C-130 MX.

Edit: If they seriously want to keep the MX guys/girls around, they better start giving them some Hazard Pay, especially when you're hooking up the Senor Ops, Cops, and Med Techs.

You really need to get out more...

FE Buckeye Pride
07-31-2012, 02:39 AM
You make it sound like the only job that deploys or works long hours is maintenance. The reason their bonus got cut is the same reason other bonuses get cut. Once enough people apply for a CJR the AF knows they do not need a bonus for that career field. Cutting the bonus for C130X is not going too make a difference. If anything it just gets rid of the people who only wanted to re-enlist for the money.

3 years ago I was given a little over $10K to re-enlist in finance. We had a 1 multiplier for zone A and a 2 for zone B. I knew a lot of other people who re-enlisted and got a bonus. Everyone I knew was happy about the bonus but would have re-enlisted without it. Bonuses are needed in some career fields but they are way overused. In my opinion the only AFSC that should get bonuses are the ones with extremely long tech school (a year or longer) or jobs that have a hard to fill skill such as linguist, EOD, or TACP. Just my opinion and that is coming from a guy who did get a bonus but honestly did not really deserve it. As a first termer I was pretty easily replaceable and would have reenlisted anyways.


I stopped reading after that. I realize you have no clue of the sortie producing side of the house.

SomeRandomGuy
07-31-2012, 02:47 AM
I stopped reading after that. I realize you have no clue of the sortie producing side of the house.

Not everyone is as small minded as you. Typical maintenance ethnocentrism.

FE Buckeye Pride
07-31-2012, 02:52 AM
Not everyone is as small minded as you. Typical maintenance ethnocentrism.

lmao...Thats a good one, but your one flaw is that Im NOT maintenance. I just see the bigger picture of the show. I am pretty happy though that you stereotyped me incorrectly as a maintainer.

SomeRandomGuy
07-31-2012, 02:59 AM
lmao...Thats a good one, but your one flaw is that Im NOT maintenance. I just see the bigger picture of the show. I am pretty happy though that you stereotyped me incorrectly as a maintainer.

It is pretty funny. I hope you also appreciate the irony in you saying that we cannot hire civilians for C130MX. Then, about two posts later, you tell me that I do not understand that side of the house because I do not work there. Then, you follow that by saying you are not maintenance, but you understand the whole picture. Im sure somehow all of that makes sense in your head. Im surprised you are not mainteance, you have the same deductive reasoning skills as many of them.

FE Buckeye Pride
07-31-2012, 03:04 AM
It is pretty funny. I hope you also appreciate the irony in you saying that we cannot hire civilians for C130MX. Then, about two posts later, you tell me that I do not understand that side of the house because I do not work there. Then, you follow that by saying you are not maintenance, but you understand the whole picture. Im sure somehow all of that makes sense in your head. Im surprised you are not mainteance, you have the same deductive reasoning skills as many of them.

Okay, since you have little understand of the sortie-side. Im a Flight Engineer, prior MX. As an Engineer you have the same understanding of an aircraft as a MX and work with them side by side prior to and after flight. My wife is still a MX.

So yeah it makes sense.

JD2780
07-31-2012, 04:04 AM
Okay, since you have little understand of the sortie-side. Im a Flight Engineer, prior MX. As an Engineer you have the same understanding of an aircraft as a MX and work with them side by side prior to and after flight. My wife is still a MX.

So yeah it makes sense.


You can hire civilians do to MX on aircraft. They do it at bases all around the AF. Cops sorry we need them overseas, dont need active duty mx deployed we've proved that over the past few years. Medical, yea my wife is medical and she knows they could all be replaced but at the same time so can you.

With your complete loss of grip on reality you could pass for a regular mx troop.

golfer55
07-31-2012, 05:12 AM
Thank god! It's time end ALL of them...

I couldn't agree more. I have forgotten more about the job then most of these young guys currently know and they WERE the ones getting $60K+ to re-up. Complete crap IMHO. I never got shit and when anyone ever asked me a question about the program I would tell them they needed to go to MPF to get any info they required. I never had the need to get smart on it because I was never given a bonus, and wasn't going to.

ske4za
07-31-2012, 11:44 AM
I stopped reading after that. I realize you have no clue of the sortie producing side of the house.

Ah, I see you are a member of the TEAM (typical enlisted aircrew mentality). Since SomeRandomGuy wasn't involved in directly making a sortie, he has no idea about the "real" air force.

Shrike
07-31-2012, 12:47 PM
You can hire civilians do to MX on aircraft. They do it at bases all around the AF. Cops sorry we need them overseas, dont need active duty mx deployed we've proved that over the past few years. Medical, yea my wife is medical and she knows they could all be replaced but at the same time so can you.

With your complete loss of grip on reality you could pass for a regular mx troop.

Why is that?

SomeRandomGuy
07-31-2012, 01:37 PM
Why is that?

I think he was making the point that cops are required overseas for security. In alot of ways that is flawed logic. The reason we send our cops is because we do not have an infantry AFSC. That leads people to believe that being a cop and infantry are very similar when they are not. With that being said I am of the opinion that any job in the USAF could be replaced by civilains even in a deployed enviroment. It would not be cheaper but it is possible. We already have outsourced security (think Blackwater a few years ago) and Intel (lots of contractors doing that job). If we wanted we could also outsource C130, Medical, Police, Finance, MPF, EOD and just about anything else you could possibly name. I feel bad for FE Buckeye Pride. He thinks he is completely un-replaceable in the Air Force. That is a horrible view to have because the AF is pretty much known for using people and as soon as you are no longer useful you are just garbage. If I am not mistaken we have someone on here (JD280 I think?) Who was combat control and disqualified. He is moving on without the AF and the AF is moving on without him. Happens all the time. Anyone who tries to make the point that they are most important is in for a wake up call someday even if that day is retirement.

Jamethon
07-31-2012, 02:20 PM
Maybe I stand alone on this, but I think SRBs are a good idea. Take RPA Sensor Operator for example: The amount of money it costs to send through two tech schools, PCS, and through more training (JFC @ Nellis for some and FTU for everyone). After the enlistment is up, the operators can get out and work for contractors that do the same thing, just without a uniform and for, sometimes, more than double what you make while wearing a uniform. So all the money pumped into people to train them up on the system is just wasted for the person to get out and make more outside. The SRB is a HOPE that the person will stay in, preventing more money spend to train up another person.

When you can't compete with the money on the outside, you can offer some money, which will save the government money in the long run and hopefully convince someone to drink the kool-aid.

soferio
07-31-2012, 02:24 PM
Well I'm glad I just finished my re enlistment last month. The AF knows the economy still sucks and people are cautious about getting out even though there is better pay to be found. After this enlistment I might be done though, constant 12 hour shifts or only getting Sunday, Monday off or Friday, Saturday gets a little old for the pay.

Fullthrottle
07-31-2012, 02:32 PM
I do believe that the SRBs ultimately save the government money in the 6C0X1 (Contracting) career field. When contracting was first added to the SRB list the career field was critically manned. We were losing a lot of individuals who separated after getting qualified/trained to the civilian work force and make twice the pay. That was in the late 90’s and I believe we were still critically manned as late as 2006-2007. They may still be I’m not sure.

It’s easy to say let them go and enlist somebody who wants to be in the career field. But when history shows that you have retention problems for many years you have to do something to try and get people to stay, and sometimes the SRB is what makes the difference. Who can blame a Sra or SSgt of 4, 6 or 8 years from separating to get a GS-11 or 12 position or a civilian job making $75K-$125K.

Now that being said, in today’s economy and job market it makes sense to reduce the SRB for the career field because it isn’t as easy to get those jobs on the outside and there is a lot more competition.

I know we have several civilian and contractor employees fulfilling Contracting duties in the deployed environment, but we pay out the ass for it, way more then we pay military. I talked to a couple GS-11’s and a GS-12 who deployed for DCMA and they made over 120K while they were deployed for a year (granted I did not verify that, but I don’t know why they would lie), and a large part of that was tax exempt. The GS-12 told me that after filing taxes she ultimately only made about $30-$35k more than her normal annual pay (again hearsay). I have talked to several contracted contracting individuals (mostly separated military) who fulfill contracting duties in the deployed environment and they make anywhere from 150K to 350K depending on the location. I actually entertained the idea myself when I retired, but chose to start my civil service career. Anyway the cost of the SRB is a hell of a lot cheaper than paying civilians or contractors to do our job in the deployed environment.

Medic0721
07-31-2012, 02:47 PM
2A5X1 - removal of Zone A, B, and C?....Good luck USAF on finding retention of solid maintainers without any bonuses. You are screwing over the largest sector. Medical? Cut em, we can hire civilians if need be. Cops? We already use civilians. We can't hire civilian C-130 MX.

Edit: If they seriously want to keep the MX guys/girls around, they better start giving them some Hazard Pay, especially when you're hooking up the Senor Ops, Cops, and Med Techs.

You must of read the article wrong....It's only the shredout for Medical....The IDMTs are the ones that get the bonus. Not regular. If that were the case, I would have re-enlisted instead of extending. JD is right on what his wife says, we are replaceable.

jazzcat23
07-31-2012, 02:54 PM
I do believe that the SRBs ultimately save the government money in the 6C0X1 (Contracting) career field. When contracting was first added to the SRB list the career field was critically manned. We were losing a lot of individuals who separated after getting qualified/trained to the civilian work force and make twice the pay. That was in the late 90’s and I believe we were still critically manned as late as 2006-2007. They may still be I’m not sure.

It’s easy to say let them go and enlist somebody who wants to be in the career field. But when history shows that you have retention problems for many years you have to do something to try and get people to stay, and sometimes the SRB is what makes the difference. Who can blame a Sra or SSgt of 4, 6 or 8 years from separating to get a GS-11 or 12 position or a civilian job making $75K-$125K.

Now that being said, in today’s economy and job market it makes sense to reduce the SRB for the career field because it isn’t as easy to get those jobs on the outside and there is a lot more competition.

I know we have several civilian and contractor employees fulfilling Contracting duties in the deployed environment, but we pay out the ass for it, way more then we pay military. I talked to a couple GS-11’s and a GS-12 who deployed for DCMA and they made over 120K while they were deployed for a year (granted I did not verify that, but I don’t know why they would lie), and a large part of that was tax exempt. The GS-12 told me that after filing taxes she ultimately only made about $30-$35k more than her normal annual pay (again hearsay). I have talked to several contracted contracting individuals (mostly separated military) who fulfill contracting duties in the deployed environment and they make anywhere from 150K to 350K depending on the location. I actually entertained the idea myself when I retired, but chose to start my civil service career. Anyway the cost of the SRB is a hell of a lot cheaper than paying civilians or contractors to do our job in the deployed environment.

The DCMA folks are making that much (including their post deployment bonus), but I believe they're still paying taxes on most of it.

On another note, deployed (contingency) contracting is even more jacked up than stateside contracting. With the amount of money being wasted in OEF/OIF due to incompetence and outright fraud, I believe the vast majority of our deployed contracting corps should be locked up.

Tak
07-31-2012, 03:07 PM
I do believe that the SRBs ultimately save the government money in the 6C0X1 (Contracting) career field. When contracting was first added to the SRB list the career field was critically manned. We were losing a lot of individuals who separated after getting qualified/trained to the civilian work force and make twice the pay. That was in the late 90’s and I believe we were still critically manned as late as 2006-2007. They may still be I’m not sure.

It’s easy to say let them go and enlist somebody who wants to be in the career field. But when history shows that you have retention problems for many years you have to do something to try and get people to stay, and sometimes the SRB is what makes the difference. Who can blame a Sra or SSgt of 4, 6 or 8 years from separating to get a GS-11 or 12 position or a civilian job making $75K-$125K.

Now that being said, in today’s economy and job market it makes sense to reduce the SRB for the career field because it isn’t as easy to get those jobs on the outside and there is a lot more competition.

I know we have several civilian and contractor employees fulfilling Contracting duties in the deployed environment, but we pay out the ass for it, way more then we pay military. I talked to a couple GS-11’s and a GS-12 who deployed for DCMA and they made over 120K while they were deployed for a year (granted I did not verify that, but I don’t know why they would lie), and a large part of that was tax exempt. The GS-12 told me that after filing taxes she ultimately only made about $30-$35k more than her normal annual pay (again hearsay). I have talked to several contracted contracting individuals (mostly separated military) who fulfill contracting duties in the deployed environment and they make anywhere from 150K to 350K depending on the location. I actually entertained the idea myself when I retired, but chose to start my civil service career. Anyway the cost of the SRB is a hell of a lot cheaper than paying civilians or contractors to do our job in the deployed environment.

Spend money to save money, don't think so.

js7799
07-31-2012, 03:09 PM
A lot of RQ/MQ-1 maintenance is being done by civvies in the AOR. I was in mx for 15 years and don't see any reason why they couldn't hire civilians to deploy and do the same job. We're no more special than finance, FSS, SFS, or any other career field. It really gets to me when I see the holier-than-thou attitude most flightline guys have. You fix planes, big fucking deal. There's always the unemployment line if you're that unhappy.

Shrike
07-31-2012, 05:45 PM
I think he was making the point that cops are required overseas for security. In alot of ways that is flawed logic. The reason we send our cops is because we do not have an infantry AFSC. That leads people to believe that being a cop and infantry are very similar when they are not. With that being said I am of the opinion that any job in the USAF could be replaced by civilains even in a deployed enviroment. It would not be cheaper but it is possible. We already have outsourced security (think Blackwater a few years ago) and Intel (lots of contractors doing that job). If we wanted we could also outsource C130, Medical, Police, Finance, MPF, EOD and just about anything else you could possibly name. I feel bad for FE Buckeye Pride. He thinks he is completely un-replaceable in the Air Force. That is a horrible view to have because the AF is pretty much known for using people and as soon as you are no longer useful you are just garbage. If I am not mistaken we have someone on here (JD280 I think?) Who was combat control and disqualified. He is moving on without the AF and the AF is moving on without him. Happens all the time. Anyone who tries to make the point that they are most important is in for a wake up call someday even if that day is retirement.

I know what point he was making. I just wondered why he thought that way.

I agree with you about the jobs in the USAF. I've been saying for years that probably 90-95% of the jobs could be accomplished by civilians. Some folks - mainly aircrew and maintenance - seem to think that what they do is somehow unique and can't be accomplished by anyone but a blue-suiter. But many of them have grossly over-inflated senses of self importance anyway, so...

js7799
07-31-2012, 05:48 PM
I know what point he was making. I just wondered why he thought that way.

I agree with you about the jobs in the USAF. I've been saying for years that probably 90-95% of the jobs could be accomplished by civilians. Some folks - mainly aircrew and maintenance - seem to think that what they do is somehow unique and can't be accomplished by anyone but a blue-suiter. But many of them have grossly over-inflated senses of self importance anyway, so...

Agreed. They should have to do some time outside of their career field to readjust their notion that mx/aircrew are the only jobs that matter in the AF.

Fullthrottle
07-31-2012, 06:17 PM
Spend money to save money, don't think so.

I hear what you are saying Tak, but I disagree in this instance. It takes 3 to 7 years to truly get proficient at Contracting (depending on the area of contracting and the individual). Just like any job the more experience you have the better you should be. You can look back and see where you could have did better in the past but you just didn’t have the knowledge to make it happen.

In the deployed environment it is not uncommon for 1 contracting individual to handle multiple even hundreds of requirements anywhere from a few thousand dollars a few million dollars is some cases $100M+. They rely on their experience and training to get the government a fair and reasonable price. If we are not able to keep our experienced contracting personnel then we very well may lose money on every requirement, it may still be a fair and reasonable price but it is very possible that it could have been a better price. That difference could triple what the individual received as an SRB.

The SRB isn’t the perfect solution and a lot of times it isn’t enough to get Contracting personnel to stay, I knew 2 individuals who passed up to a $70k SRB to take a better paying civilian job, one was hired by Best Buy and started off at 6 figures and was able to work from home 3 days a week. Another was a Sra with 4 years in the AF separated and hired as a GS-12.

I know when I was still on active duty I sat through numerous telecons with HQ’s and Contracting functionals trying to figure out how we could get our airman to re-enlist and we couldn’t come up with a good answer, that wasn’t something you should already be trying to do as a supervisor trying to keep good Airman. The SRB made a difference and there is no doubt that it saved the AF money in my opinion.

JD2780
07-31-2012, 08:42 PM
I think he was making the point that cops are required overseas for security. In alot of ways that is flawed logic. The reason we send our cops is because we do not have an infantry AFSC. That leads people to believe that being a cop and infantry are very similar when they are not. With that being said I am of the opinion that any job in the USAF could be replaced by civilains even in a deployed enviroment. It would not be cheaper but it is possible. We already have outsourced security (think Blackwater a few years ago) and Intel (lots of contractors doing that job). If we wanted we could also outsource C130, Medical, Police, Finance, MPF, EOD and just about anything else you could possibly name. I feel bad for FE Buckeye Pride. He thinks he is completely un-replaceable in the Air Force. That is a horrible view to have because the AF is pretty much known for using people and as soon as you are no longer useful you are just garbage. If I am not mistaken we have someone on here (JD280 I think?) Who was combat control and disqualified. He is moving on without the AF and the AF is moving on without him. Happens all the time. Anyone who tries to make the point that they are most important is in for a wake up call someday even if that day is retirement.

You're correct, except I'm a TACP, no swimming required!!

Cops are required for base security and not dignitary security. It comes into that issue of Geneva Conventions. Security Forces are far from infantry. The cop community is in an identity crisis and greatly confused. Are they cops, are they ABD? What are they? They dont know.

The TACP community tossed me asside the minute I was Dq'd, I was afforded the option to cross train into certain AFSCs. I said no thanks. I cant go from this community then go another with out tons of friction because I'm disgruntled. Couldnt take a job I didnt truly want.

Both are moving on happily. Later AF.

JD2780
07-31-2012, 08:44 PM
Maybe I stand alone on this, but I think SRBs are a good idea. Take RPA Sensor Operator for example: The amount of money it costs to send through two tech schools, PCS, and through more training (JFC @ Nellis for some and FTU for everyone). After the enlistment is up, the operators can get out and work for contractors that do the same thing, just without a uniform and for, sometimes, more than double what you make while wearing a uniform. So all the money pumped into people to train them up on the system is just wasted for the person to get out and make more outside. The SRB is a HOPE that the person will stay in, preventing more money spend to train up another person.

When you can't compete with the money on the outside, you can offer some money, which will save the government money in the long run and hopefully convince someone to drink the kool-aid.

I dont know why sensor operators come through JFC. I think thats the worst course in the history of courses.

Tak
07-31-2012, 08:47 PM
I hear what you are saying Tak, but I disagree in this instance. It takes 3 to 7 years to truly get proficient at Contracting (depending on the area of contracting and the individual). Just like any job the more experience you have the better you should be. You can look back and see where you could have did better in the past but you just didn’t have the knowledge to make it happen.

In the deployed environment it is not uncommon for 1 contracting individual to handle multiple even hundreds of requirements anywhere from a few thousand dollars a few million dollars is some cases $100M+. They rely on their experience and training to get the government a fair and reasonable price. If we are not able to keep our experienced contracting personnel then we very well may lose money on every requirement, it may still be a fair and reasonable price but it is very possible that it could have been a better price. That difference could triple what the individual received as an SRB.

The SRB isn’t the perfect solution and a lot of times it isn’t enough to get Contracting personnel to stay, I knew 2 individuals who passed up to a $70k SRB to take a better paying civilian job, one was hired by Best Buy and started off at 6 figures and was able to work from home 3 days a week. Another was a Sra with 4 years in the AF separated and hired as a GS-12.

I know when I was still on active duty I sat through numerous telecons with HQ’s and Contracting functionals trying to figure out how we could get our airman to re-enlist and we couldn’t come up with a good answer, that wasn’t something you should already be trying to do as a supervisor trying to keep good Airman. The SRB made a difference and there is no doubt that it saved the AF money in my opinion.

Total BS...

Jamethon
08-01-2012, 12:46 AM
I dont know why sensor operators come through JFC. I think thats the worst course in the history of courses.

The info was good stuff to know, but the practical exercises were ran over by Captains and Majors who wanted to get DG (for some reason?) and wouldn't let anyone else do their assigned job. It seemed awful disorganized and a ton of info that wasn't necessary though.

bcoco14
08-01-2012, 01:04 AM
The info was good stuff to know, but the practical exercises were ran over by Captains and Majors who wanted to get DG (for some reason?) and wouldn't let anyone else do their assigned job. It seemed awful disorganized and a ton of info that wasn't necessary though.

Because it will go on their PRF.

briefer
08-01-2012, 01:49 AM
Total BS...

The SRB is a useful tool to keep certain career fields from depleting, in turn leading to crazy SSgt/TSgt/MSgt grade inflation.

Full disclosure: I've only reupped once. In 3 years, once I'm ready to stay in or get out, I'll be deciding between becoming a dirty/overpaid contractor, a lazy/overpaid GS12/13, taking a bonus that may or may not be miniscule or huge, or putting in an OTS packet. Decisions, decisions. Or, we'll be living in some kind of post-apocolyptic America, and Tak will be like Kevin Costner, with Shrike as Mel Gibson (but without all the Jew-hatred).

mikezulu1985
08-01-2012, 02:58 AM
For all the non bonus haters out there. If your career field gets a bonus and it is being reduced or going away their is a loophole that allows you to reenlist early. If you have 36months or less left on your current enlistment and you transfer your GI bill to wife/kid you can reenlist immediately . My zone B bonus is going from a 5.5 multiplier to a 1. But since I hit my 3yr mark on Thursday I am transferring my GI bill to my son and getting to reenlist for 3yrs in zone B which will be 44k instead of the 15k I would have gotten in 2yrs. If you need details on the specifics of how to do it let me know.

JD2780
08-01-2012, 05:08 AM
The info was good stuff to know, but the practical exercises were ran over by Captains and Majors who wanted to get DG (for some reason?) and wouldn't let anyone else do their assigned job. It seemed awful disorganized and a ton of info that wasn't necessary though.

We've said that repeatedly to the course manager and they refuse to listen.

The PEX is stupid. How recently did you go through?

ubermetroid
08-01-2012, 09:29 AM
For all the non bonus haters out there. If your career field gets a bonus and it is being reduced or going away their is a loophole that allows you to reenlist early. If you have 36months or less left on your current enlistment and you transfer your GI bill to wife/kid you can reenlist immediately . My zone B bonus is going from a 5.5 multiplier to a 1. But since I hit my 3yr mark on Thursday I am transferring my GI bill to my son and getting to reenlist for 3yrs in zone B which will be 44k instead of the 15k I would have gotten in 2yrs. If you need details on the specifics of how to do it let me know.

Pass the word!

I will take the info - what do I have to do?

Note - I am at a deployed location.. So that will make it more difficult I assume.

Fullthrottle
08-01-2012, 11:59 AM
Total BS...

You don’t have to believe me if you don’t want to, I don’t really care, was just providing my first hand knowledge. But if you have any retention ideas please pass them along, I will pass them to some old POC’s, maybe somebody with a different background will think of something different that might work.

Something else I didn’t mention in regard to training, Contracting has to take 5 Defense Acquisition University classes to meet UTC and upgrade qualifications (in addition to CDC's), this training is the exact same training that civilians have to take to meet the same qualifications, not to mention that you have to have 24 college business hours, granted that isn’t that big of a deal in todays AF, but it is unique that an AF AFSC requires an enlisted to have 24 hours of college to be qualified in their career field period, I don’t know of any other AFSC that has that requirement, but that don’t mean there are not any others.

mikezulu1985
08-01-2012, 01:49 PM
You don’t have to believe me if you don’t want to, I don’t really care, was just providing my first hand knowledge. But if you have any retention ideas please pass them along, I will pass them to some old POC’s, maybe somebody with a different background will think of something different that might work.

Something else I didn’t mention in regard to training, Contracting has to take 5 Defense Acquisition University classes to meet UTC and upgrade qualifications (in addition to CDC's), this training is the exact same training that civilians have to take to meet the same qualifications, not to mention that you have to have 24 college business hours, granted that isn’t that big of a deal in todays AF, but it is unique that an AF AFSC requires an enlisted to have 24 hours of college to be qualified in their career field period, I don’t know of any other AFSC that has that requirement, but that don’t mean there are not any others.

Ive got some pliers whenever you realize you got hooked.

Fullthrottle
08-01-2012, 01:57 PM
Ive got some pliers whenever you realize you got hooked.

That wouldn't be the first time, and if that is the case, it actually makes more sence.

SomeRandomGuy
08-01-2012, 05:43 PM
While I agree for the most part the last part is absoulte bullshit, with the exception of a few army douchebags you cannot paint the entire careerfield as such.

the biggest hurt the 6C0 will face is the fact that 80% ( yes 80% ) of the careerfield has less then 3 yrs contracting exp. On top of the the biggest number 1 complaint was keeping uniformed service members in past their 10 yr mark. By 10 yrs you are shit hot to industry and gov jobs. So what do they do, completely take away the zone C incentive to re up and hook them for another 10 yrs, because lets face it, not many will punch after 14 yrs of service so if you hook a 6C at 10 yrs with a zone C bonus you basically have him for 20. The day this dropped via email, I heard the wind sucked right out of the entire careerfield, sure 6c is 400% manned in 3 levels but all you are doing is training them for a few years before they punch lol

The opposite is really funny to watch too. I mentioned a few posts earlier that I took a Zone A bonus 3 years ago as a first termer (multiplier was 1 so about $10K for a SrA). Plenty of other people took taht bonus and have reenlisted. Now they release the NCORP list and guess what? 25 Finance SSgt need to retrain. So the same people who took a bonus about 3 years ago are being forced out? I have no problems with re-enlistment bonus as long as they are logical. The situation you mentioned above is a perfect example of a logical bonus. Finance would have never needed a reenlistment bonues if they had not started the processing center at Ellsworth. When you are a first termer and you realize you will have to do at least one tour in South Dakota (they call it Hellsworth) seperating starts looking pretty good. If they had simply placed that processing center somewhere nice (florida for example) people would have been dying to reenlist and PCS down there.

Tak
08-01-2012, 05:44 PM
You don’t have to believe me if you don’t want to, I don’t really care, was just providing my first hand knowledge. But if you have any retention ideas please pass them along, I will pass them to some old POC’s, maybe somebody with a different background will think of something different that might work.

Something else I didn’t mention in regard to training, Contracting has to take 5 Defense Acquisition University classes to meet UTC and upgrade qualifications (in addition to CDC's), this training is the exact same training that civilians have to take to meet the same qualifications, not to mention that you have to have 24 college business hours, granted that isn’t that big of a deal in todays AF, but it is unique that an AF AFSC requires an enlisted to have 24 hours of college to be qualified in their career field period, I don’t know of any other AFSC that has that requirement, but that don’t mean there are not any others.

Don't agree; or disagree--don't care

MajesticThunder
08-01-2012, 06:30 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/08/01/bonus-checks-for-gsa-workers-total-far-more-than-previously-reported-lawmaker/

GSA civilians had no cash flow incentive “bonus” or overtime pay problems! :whoo

No US government civil service worker at any grade or in any position paid with tax dollars should be getting an annual incentive “bonus” of any kind on top of their standard SES/GS/WG salary and routine pay entitlements.

synergy_68
07-18-2013, 01:53 PM
Heres a question for all you that have done the retrain/renlist/SRB path...
I have been in 8 years, will attend/receive my Sensor Operator 3-level in October 2013. I can reenlist( for the second time) a few months later, my DOS is Dec2015.
Will I get the SRB?
Joined for 6 in 2005, reenlisted for 4 in 2011.

Thanks.
Jason

raustin0017
07-18-2013, 02:17 PM
Heres a question for all you that have done the retrain/renlist/SRB path...
I have been in 8 years, will attend/receive my Sensor Operator 3-level in October 2013. I can reenlist( for the second time) a few months later, my DOS is Dec2015.
Will I get the SRB?
Joined for 6 in 2005, reenlisted for 4 in 2011.

Thanks.
Jason

Jason, Contact your Career Enhancement section and get the correct information. They are the experts and will give you the straight answer.

synergy_68
07-18-2013, 02:18 PM
Jason, Contact your Career Enhancement section and get the correct information. They are the experts and will give you the straight answer.

Thank you.

RetC141BFCC
07-22-2013, 03:10 PM
I will bite! Why can't we hire civilian mechanics? Are you saying that in the real world we have cops, medical, etc but there are no mechanics? If I am not mistaken people who become C-130MX were at one point civilians. So in effect we already have hired civilians to do the job. Now if you wouldn't mind hopping off of the soapbox I would appreciate it. I have laundry to do.

You can but you can not afford to work them like you do active duty. Since I retired I work 4 ten hour shifts. Days off Sun, Mon and Tue. Guess what after ten hours time and one half after 12 hours double time. I worked a 10 hour shift on the 4th. It cost my company 75 bucks an hour. I always laugh when guys here complain about working an hour overtime to finish a jet. I tell them they would not make it 2 weeks in the AF. If you work Mx do yourself a favor and get your airframe and power plant before you retire. If you need help on how to do it without spending 35,000 IM me. I spent a total of 800 dollars.

garhkal
07-22-2013, 09:01 PM
Personally while i am for SRBs, i do feel some were too inflated compared to the rest..

mikezulu1
07-23-2013, 12:16 PM
Personally while i am for SRBs, i do feel some were too inflated compared to the rest..

Which ones?

Juggs
07-23-2013, 07:53 PM
Which ones?

SERE. All enlisted aircrew!!!

garhkal
07-23-2013, 11:06 PM
Networking admins etc, nukes.