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View Full Version : Is FLAPS a good officer?



Tak
07-22-2012, 05:29 PM
...........

Shrike
07-22-2012, 06:43 PM
Unless anyone on here works for or with him how would anyone know?

ske4za
07-22-2012, 07:30 PM
What would be funny is if you met FLAPS before during your career and didn't know it.

Tak
07-22-2012, 07:37 PM
What would be funny is if you met FLAPS before during your career and didn't know it.

He may be an awesome major in the real world. I'm just basing off of this fake aft forum.

wxjumper
07-22-2012, 07:42 PM
I would need to know his PT score before I can say whether he is a good officer or not.

Jamethon
07-22-2012, 07:52 PM
I don't care.

Forsaken Wombat
07-22-2012, 08:19 PM
Good or not, there is only one certainty.



FLAPS is an officer in the United States Air Force. He has a commission from the President of the United States. He has logged more than 2,000 flight hours in both the AC-130 and the U-2 Dragon Lady. When approached by FLAPS in an outdoor environment, one must ensure that they render a proper salute and an appropriate verbal greeting. Failure to do so could result in immediate UCMJ or UFC action. FLAPS is an officer in the United States Air Force.


FLAPS
http://www.calegionpost149.org/Riders/SkipErtwine2.jpg


NOT FLAPS
http://www.2020site.org/medals/images/airforce.jpg

RobotChicken
07-22-2012, 08:28 PM
:spy Everyone make sure you check your 'Flaps' before your mouth takes off on this one!! :lol

Jamethon
07-22-2012, 08:41 PM
When approached by FLAPS in an outdoor environment, one must ensure that they render a proper salute and an appropriate verbal greeting. Failure to do so could result in immediate UCMJ or UFC action.

Am I going to get put in a choke hold?

JD2780
07-22-2012, 09:15 PM
Am I going to get put in a choke hold?

Yes its in the fine print of the AFI. Possible toe hold which is worse. Its demeaning AND painful.

FLAPS
07-22-2012, 09:20 PM
Ah...cutsey little poll. Can I vote for myself? This is awesome. When we get to 4,780 votes, let me know! Thanks!

JD2780
07-22-2012, 09:23 PM
Ah...cutsey little poll. Can I vote for myself? This is awesome. When we get to 4,780 votes, let me know! Thanks!

Certainly can, but if you vote that you're a good officer, we'll call you a liar, and if you vote you're a bad officer, we'll ask that you resign your commission for being self identified as shitty. :third

technomage1
07-22-2012, 11:06 PM
What brought this on?

LogDog
07-22-2012, 11:11 PM
The words "good" + "officer" = oxymoron. :lol

Tak
07-23-2012, 12:01 AM
What brought this on?

Old fashion enlisted vs officer rivalry.

Or in this case, enlisted vs prior enlisted officer.

I am sure he only mentions that when it benefits him.

SgtS
07-23-2012, 12:27 AM
I couldn't care less. Really. I couldn't.

KellyinAvon
07-23-2012, 12:54 AM
Come on Tak, you are being way more kind to FLAPS than I expected given your history with him. A poll with a chance to answer yes? I was looking for poll choices from you like:
A: No
B: Hell No
C: FLAPS sucks
D: All of the above

I voted I don't know since I don't know. Seemed appropriate.

Tak
07-23-2012, 01:01 AM
Come on Tak, you are being way more kind to FLAPS than I expected given your history with him. A poll with a chance to answer yes? I was looking for poll choices from you like:
A: No
B: Hell No
C: FLAPS sucks
D: All of the above

I voted I don't know since I don't know. Seemed appropriate.

I just wanted to get a feel on what people thought.
Didn't want to be mean, or create a hostile forum environment.
Seems most don't care, which seems about right.
It was my first poll experiment.

Shrike
07-23-2012, 01:04 AM
I just wanted to get a feel on what people thought.
Didn't want to be mean, or create a hostile forum environment.
Seems most don't care, which seems about right.
It was my first poll experiment

That's not the word on the street. :biggrin

PickYourBattles
07-23-2012, 01:05 AM
What say you?

What I say is...

Please define "good officer."

Tak
07-23-2012, 01:06 AM
That's not the word on the street. :biggrin

That's it...going to MEO.

wxjumper
07-23-2012, 01:07 AM
That's not the word on the street. :biggrin

OHHH SNAP!!!:rockon

Tak
07-23-2012, 01:10 AM
What I say is...

Please define "good officer."

Good officer?

Tough to define.

Listen to troops, not be arrogant, great pt score,
Educated by enlisted, no ego, leader, calm delibrate
Thinker, accomplishes mission not at expense of men.

technomage1
07-23-2012, 01:12 AM
Old fashion enlisted vs officer rivalry.

Or in this case, enlisted vs prior enlisted officer.

I am sure he only mentions that when it benefits him.

In that case, my vote had to be "Don't know".

Tak
07-23-2012, 01:26 AM
Ah...cutsey little poll. Can I vote for myself? This is awesome. When we get to 4,780 votes, let me know! Thanks!
4,780? There's only like 20 people on here and some have multiple personas.

Seriously, what makes you a good officer?

PickYourBattles
07-23-2012, 01:28 AM
Good officer?

Tough to define.

Listen to troops, not be arrogant, great pt score,
Educated by enlisted, no ego, leader, calm delibrate
Thinker, accomplishes mission not at expense of men.

Ok. Listening to troops, does that mean agreeing with them and doing what they say? Or can you listen, understand, process, and then tell them "no, you're wrong and this is what we're doing?" Or would such a response equate to "not listening?"

As to arrogance, a lot of confident, secure, folks with healthy self esteem get accused of arrogance when they are not arrogant (unless liking/respecting yourself is that same as being arrogant). My question to you - is it possible to have an "arrogant" officer who listens to his troops, carefully considers their inputs when time allows, cares for their well being at expense to himself and his family, and makes decisions that are well informed, mission focused, and yet maximize "people" while focusing on mission - and who will tell you at the O'Club, "I'm a great officer, I kick ass, I'm better than most officers." Wouldn't be a good political statement to make, but would he be wrong? Would he be arrogant?

Educated by enlisted - if enlisted take the time to educate, then great. Of course lessons are not valuable simply because they come from Es. But I agree good Os (actually most Os) will seek the perspective/education of Es, especially if they have a supervisory role.

No ego? That's impossible. You must know that. We all have ego, and I would sure hope those responsible for taking lives and leading folks into combat would have a healthy dose of pride (often confused for ego or arrogance).

I agree with the rest of your definition, with the exception of accomplishing the mission not at the expense of men. IF the mission can be done without expense of the men, then absolutely.

Tak
07-23-2012, 01:32 AM
Ok. Listening to troops, does that mean agreeing with them and doing what they say? Or can you listen, understand, process, and then tell them "no, you're wrong and this is what we're doing?" Or would such a response equate to "not listening?"

As to arrogance, a lot of confident, secure, folks with healthy self esteem get accused of arrogance when they are not arrogant (unless liking/respecting yourself is that same as being arrogant). My question to you - is it possible to have an "arrogant" officer who listens to his troops, carefully considers their inputs when time allows, cares for their well being at expense to himself and his family, and makes decisions that are well informed, mission focused, and yet maximize "people" while focusing on mission - and who will tell you at the O'Club, "I'm a great officer, I kick ass, I'm better than most officers." Wouldn't be a good political statement to make, but would he be wrong? Would he be arrogant?

Educated by enlisted - if enlisted take the time to educate, then great. Of course lessons are not valuable simply because they come from Es. But I agree good Os (actually most Os) will seek the perspective/education of Es, especially if they have a supervisory role.

No ego? That's impossible. You must know that. We all have ego, and I would sure hope those responsible for taking lives and leading folks into combat would have a healthy dose of pride (often confused for ego or arrogance).

I agree with the rest of your definition, with the exception of accomplishing the mission not at the expense of men. IF the mission can be done without expense of the men, then absolutely.

Reading above I would guess you were an officer as well.

PickYourBattles
07-23-2012, 02:34 AM
Reading above I would guess you were an officer as well.

I see.

Well I hope you'll forgive me for "listening to you" and asking for clarification based on what I heard.

Your inability or unwillingness is noted.

Tak
07-23-2012, 02:45 AM
I see.

Well I hope you'll forgive me for "listening to you" and asking for clarification based on what I heard.

Your inability or unwillingness is noted.
You asked, I elaborated, you expounded, I stated, you showed your cards.

Cool Change
07-23-2012, 06:08 AM
Reading above I would guess you were an officer as well.

As long as you've been posting here you've only just figured that out? I've only been a member for four months and realized that when I read his first post.

PT GOD
07-23-2012, 08:42 AM
i can end this debat with one simple question : Flaps, what was your last 3 PT scores...if you say anything less than 100, then my answer is no, if they are all 100's then YEs

PickYourBattles
07-23-2012, 02:08 PM
As long as you've been posting here you've only just figured that out? I've only been a member for four months and realized that when I read his first post.

I see there is a lot of energy spent elaborating and providing details and answering questions about what a good officer is...

Enigmatic Airman
07-23-2012, 04:07 PM
Don't know or care...for all we know he could be on either side of the spectrum...

Tak
07-23-2012, 05:22 PM
I see there is a lot of energy spent elaborating and providing details and answering questions about what a good officer is...

My second guess is your a Major just as Flaps is.

PickYourBattles
07-23-2012, 06:01 PM
Reminds me of the communication loop from PME, message, feedback, clarification, etc.

TAK: A good officer is one who listens to his troops.

ME: By listen, do you mean agree with his troops? Or can a good officer listen, and factor their inputs, while not agreeing with them?

TAK: You're such an officer. You don't listen.

WestCoastAR_Crewdog
07-23-2012, 06:19 PM
I see there is a lot of energy spent elaborating and providing details and answering questions about what a good officer is...

- Definition of a "Good Officer" -

One that will admit that the entire notion of the Officer program is a hierarchy. The serparation of Officer and Enlisted is an outdated idea that only served to cause a rift between two sects in the modern military. If the designation for one to make an authoratative decision is based solely on 4 years spent at some subpar university, then by that my cousin who still waits tables with her bachelors in applied science but can't find a job can make a more informed decision in my career than my flight chief with 16 years experience, which debunks the entire process altogether. Create career fields that are built to require degrees, such as those that are focus on aspects of a technical, scientific, medical, or managerial nature and put the focus back in our enlisted leadership.

Tak
07-23-2012, 06:28 PM
Reminds me of the communication loop from PME, message, feedback, clarification, etc.

TAK: A good officer is one who listens to his troops.

ME: By listen, do you mean agree with his troops? Or can a good officer listen, and factor their inputs, while not agreeing with them?

TAK: You're such an officer. You don't listen.

No not blindly agree. Make tough calls when needed, basically
Firm but fair without apologies. Lastly, weigh in when/if needed.

PickYourBattles
07-23-2012, 07:25 PM
No not blindly agree. Make tough calls when needed, basically
Firm but fair without apologies. Lastly, weigh in when/if needed.

I agree those are good traits.

FLAPS
07-23-2012, 11:31 PM
- Definition of a "Good Officer" -

One that will admit that the entire notion of the Officer program is a hierarchy. The serparation of Officer and Enlisted is an outdated idea that only served to cause a rift between two sects in the modern military.

Do you sense a "rift" between you and officers? If so, are you on AD? If so, is this "rift" you mention so bad you just can't bare to re-enlist....but will anyway? Can't you just simply accept the "hierachy" as it is and do the best job you can do? The rank thing isn't personal, just part of the job. You do yours, we'll do ours, and on the 1st and 15th we'll both get paid. Of course, you may not be happy with your pay, like I am with mine. Then again, we all have career choices, don't we? What choices have you made, to be a bitter as you make your way to your re-enlistment ceremony?

Tak
07-23-2012, 11:42 PM
Do you sense a "rift" between you and officers? If so, are you on AD? If so, is this "rift" you mention so bad you just can't bare to re-enlist....but will anyway? Can't you just simply accept the "hierachy" as it is and do the best job you can do? The rank thing isn't personal, just part of the job. You do yours, we'll do ours, and on the 1st and 15th we'll both get paid. Of course, you may not be happy with your pay, like I am with mine. Then again, we all have career choices, don't we? What choices have you made, to be a bitter as you make your way to your re-enlistment ceremony?

This may not help your votes buddy.

FLAPS
07-24-2012, 10:54 AM
This may not help your votes buddy.

I finally voted for myself. I picked "don't care." Actually, I do care. These boards are entertaining, and sometimes educational. I'm guessing that the officers that don't really give a crap about enlisted views have no interest spending time on the MTFs reading about your opinions. Again, just a guess.

Tak
07-24-2012, 01:07 PM
I finally voted for myself. I picked "don't care." Actually, I do care. These boards are entertaining, and sometimes educational. I'm guessing that the officers that don't really give a crap about enlisted views have no interest spending time on the MTFs reading about your opinions. Again, just a guess.

You picked don't care, but you do care.
Got it.
Very decisive.

PickYourBattles
07-24-2012, 02:49 PM
I think some of the friction, if not most or all, between some enlisted and officers is that people think they know how best to drive the train, and want to drive the train. That's good, and is one of the reasons why there isn't any difference between Es and Os. Both are capable and eager to make it happen. But it's really about position, and rank ties into it. Somebody has to be the conductor, and it doesn't matter what you use to distinguish between those who drive the train, and those who work on it, nothing will change that. Union management and union members, Os and Es, there is always friction.

But it's a team/crew effort, and regardless of your position, you have to provide inputs to the decision maker regardless of whether you think he or she "listens" or will agree. And when you know they don't want inputs, then you definitely need to provide them. And just because they may not agree, doesn't mean they don't listen. A good "follower" will offer up the inputs in a conducive way, more geared toward the decision maker making the best decision, instead of in a way geared to demonstrate your own ability to make the decision. As a young guy, my inputs were more designed to show the rest of the crew that I could drive the train - and so while my inputs might have been good, the delivery was so bad it made the inputs worthless. I didn't feel I got enough respect, and wanted to prove to all I could run the show. As I matured and was no longer concerned about demonstrating that, my inputs as a follower got better with better effect on the mission.

FLAPS
03-18-2013, 08:08 PM
This is the original real FLAPS, he old name shows guest under his name.
The new fake one and blue warrior are posers.

You got me. FLAPS is not FLAPS. The new FLAPS (looks like FLAP #1's twin) will continue to post to MTF on topics that interest him (and Blue Warrior, of course). Now go harass someone else, please.