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View Full Version : Rutgers gets $2.4M to study military suicides



AirDrop23
06-01-2012, 06:47 PM
I wonder what they will find out about this serious issue within our military.

DWWSWWD
06-01-2012, 06:55 PM
I would have done it for free. In fact I have.

Ops tempo
manpower shortages
job insecurity/moving targets for retention
Army convoys
auto hobby shop closures/diminishing value of Amn by actions
screwed up brains from 10 years of war
BLUFs/leading by keyboard

Banned
06-01-2012, 07:03 PM
There's not much we can do concerning factors like operational tempo, manpower shortages, etc - IMO its more important to identify cultural/environmental factors in military life and mitigate them.

Like for example hazing. Yeah, I know a lot of people complain about the "coddling" - but there is a lot of the ridiculous over-the-top homo-erotic shit that goes on, which is certainly a factor in military depression, PTSD, etc. Like that one scandal that happened in the army recently, where new members are anally raped. WTF? It amazes me what allegedly straight males are capable of doing to each other.

OtisRNeedleman
06-01-2012, 07:08 PM
Don't we have enough people in the military who can do such a study? There are all sorts of statistics. There are mental health professionals in the service. Only thing I can think is that an "independent" study, free of command influence, is needed.

Banned
06-01-2012, 07:11 PM
Don't we have enough people in the military who can do such a study? There are all sorts of statistics. There are mental health professionals in the service. Only thing I can think is that an "independent" study, free of command influence, is needed.

That's probably EXACTLY why they did it. Also - while we do have mental health professionals, we might not necessarily have the expertise for gathering statistics and conducting a study this in-depth.

DWWSWWD
06-01-2012, 07:14 PM
-Cultural aversion to seeing folks get blown up?
-Environmmental factors such as lead poisoning (7.62mm) and sand allergy?

cloudFFVII
06-01-2012, 08:33 PM
For those loved ones, and those units/bases that have lost a military member to suicide, $2.4M is a VERY small price to pay for a study that could help others from making a final, permanent decision from situations that are usually temporary in nature.

So much of our military today is "ME" focused, that we lose sight of the people around us. Or people simply don't care, as in "they need to fix things themselves".

And sadly, there is still a very negative stigma towards the mental health community. Until that mentality subsides (and steps are moving in the right direction), I fear no amount of studies will marginally affect the numbers.

It's up to each one of us to be sensitive to the thoughts and needs of others. If you can't help, find someone who can. Acting out of caution is a whole lot better than not acting at all and living with that guilt for the rest of your life.

gone4launch
06-01-2012, 08:55 PM
This study was linked to low Omega-3 levels.


http://www.stripes.com/news/special-reports/suicide-in-the-military/military-suicides-linked-to-low-omega-3-levels-1.153434

Banned
06-01-2012, 09:56 PM
-Cultural aversion to seeing folks get blown up?
-Environmmental factors such as lead poisoning (7.62mm) and sand allergy?

Like I said, there's not a whole lot we can do to prevent that. But what we can do is prevent factors at the home front. Not all stress is deployment or combat related. Depression and PTSD is not necessarily combat related.

Measure Man
06-01-2012, 09:58 PM
Don't we have enough people in the military who can do such a study? There are all sorts of statistics. There are mental health professionals in the service. Only thing I can think is that an "independent" study, free of command influence, is needed.

People in the military come with slogans and programs, not real studies.

I'm way not smart enough to know how to no-kidding impact suicides in the military. I really liked what someone posted in another suicide thread....that it has less to do with telling people to "get help when you are suicidal" and more to do with addressing root causes...somehow helping people make better relationship decisions, financial decisions, legal decisions that often seem to be underlying causes.

The hesitancy I have in this is it might end up being another ass-load of CBTs for the 90-whatever % of people who wouldn't commit suicide anyway.

I think there is something to idea that suicide is the symptom though and we need to treat the underlying problems, or greatest potential for problems.

I guess my other thought is that underlying problems will always exist, and suicide really IS the problem...we need to concentrate on taking the option of suicide off the consideration table no matter the underlying issues.

I"m not sure which approach would be more effective...Will be interesting how this goes...

tiredofpc
06-02-2012, 01:38 AM
It's the wars, stupid! There, that just saved every taxpayer their share of $2.4 million.

Greg
06-02-2012, 01:43 AM
Don't we have enough people in the military who can do such a study? There are all sorts of statistics. There are mental health professionals in the service. Only thing I can think is that an "independent" study, free of command influence, is needed.

"Unbiased" In 2009, VAMC Wade Park did a study to find out why they had 32 suicides of veterans in 12 months.
They concluded that though there was various independent variables involved, they were not at fault.

Greg
06-02-2012, 02:10 AM
People in the military come with slogans and programs, not real studies.

I'm way not smart enough to know how to no-kidding impact suicides in the military. I really liked what someone posted in another suicide thread....that it has less to do with telling people to "get help when you are suicidal" and more to do with addressing root causes...somehow helping people make better relationship decisions, financial decisions, legal decisions that often seem to be underlying causes.

The hesitancy I have in this is it might end up being another ass-load of CBTs for the 90-whatever % of people who wouldn't commit suicide anyway.

I think there is something to idea that suicide is the symptom though and we need to treat the underlying problems, or greatest potential for problems.

I guess my other thought is that underlying problems will always exist, and suicide really IS the problem...we need to concentrate on taking the option of suicide off the consideration table no matter the underlying issues.

I"m not sure which approach would be more effective...Will be interesting how this goes...

From what I understand, both of your hypotheses's are correct, although the second one is a some what winnowed version of
the first. Some times, at least from the start, all you can ask for is a twenty-four hour arrestment of the symptoms on a
daily basis.

Pueblo
06-02-2012, 04:02 AM
Don't we have enough people in the military who can do such a study? There are all sorts of statistics. There are mental health professionals in the service. Only thing I can think is that an "independent" study, free of command influence, is needed.

Alright! Angry-about-everything-guy is checking in :flying

Assaultdog0351
06-02-2012, 04:05 AM
They'll have to do a whole separate study with that mefloquin shit... I don't know a single Marines that didn't talk/yell in their sleep when we took it.

ScarlettGTO
06-02-2012, 04:08 AM
They'll have to do a whole separate study with that mefloquin shit... I don't know a single Marines that didn't talk/yell in their sleep when we took it.

That shit gave me night terrors and some of the most life like dreams I have ever had in my life. It was actually quite disturbing.

tenfor
06-06-2012, 05:16 PM
I agree. You make a good point. One article I read said the DoD estimates there were 19,000 sexual assaults in the military in 2011. This in my view is a leading cause of suicides, along with the dehumanization inherent in forced psychiatry many victims undergo. If the study concludes that once more the remedy to suicides and PTSD numbers is more “mental health treatment” it will have wasted the money. Victims of sex crimes of both genders should be treated as crime victims not made mental patients as is the current policy. As it stands now, perpetrators are protected by “sovereign immunity” via the Feres doctrine. Likewise, victims cannot recover damages because of these pro elitist obstacles to justice. When a shrink puts certain labels on you, good luck getting insurance for the rest of your life. Likewise good luck getting a job that has insurance. People who do not believe in the medical model should not have it forced on them anymore than any other belief system, for that’s what it is, though it parades itself as science.
The courts could overturn Feres but so far has not. Those concerned with this issue might write to urge the author of the following quote to repeal Feres;
“Restoring responsibility and accountability is essential to the economic and fiscal health of our nation.”
U.S. Senator Carl Levin, Chair, Armed Services Committee
Web address;
http://www.levin.senate.gov/
Quote found at;
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/keywords/accountability_2.html#rdZqydfsM4sRc5Eu.99

Measure Man
07-03-2013, 11:45 PM
From what I understand, both of your hypotheses's are correct, although the second one is a some what winnowed version of
the first. Some times, at least from the start, all you can ask for is a twenty-four hour arrestment of the symptoms on a
daily basis.

I see it as two entirely different approaches...

Do we spend time and energy trying to minimize and treat every problem that a servicemember could have (or at least focus on the big ones, financial, relationship, legal) so that No problems=No suicides or Fewer problems=Fewer suicides.

OR...do we forget about the problems, so to speak, and try to teach people that suicide is never the answer, no matter what problems they might have.

Greg
07-04-2013, 12:35 AM
I see it as two entirely different approaches...

Do we spend time and energy trying to minimize and treat every problem that a servicemember could have (or at least focus on the big ones, financial, relationship, legal) so that No problems=No suicides or Fewer problems=Fewer suicides.

OR...do we forget about the problems, so to speak, and try to teach people that suicide is never the answer, no matter what problems they might have.

I would start with your, posted, second option. Substitute the word "not" for the word "never," and then solve backwards.

http://ethical-solutions.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Suicide-Factsheet-6-4-20121.pdf

RobotChicken
07-04-2013, 01:00 AM
"Now how much are they going to spend studying the study?"