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View Full Version : When is it okay to get hurt?



VFFSSGT
04-15-2012, 08:56 PM
I have been having a persistent pain that has been progressively getting worst and going to the Doctor...sorry the Medical Hobby Shop soon.

I am wondering if it is an okay time to go...since I am a piece of crap and score below a 90 on my PT test, I have to test twice a year. My next test is due in a couple months.

Is this far enough out to avoid perceptions of just going to the clinic for a profile to avoid the PT test?

Shrike
04-15-2012, 08:59 PM
It sickens me that this is the environment our senior managementship has cultivated. It's just flat out wrong.

Screw the wankers that may think idiotic thoughts and go take care of yourself. No one else will. Good luck.

MACHINE666
04-15-2012, 09:11 PM
VFF, get EVERYTHING medically documented...no matter how slight or insignificant it may seem, no matter if everyone in your squadron calls you a 6 foot vag....when you leave the military, you will deal with VA disability and existing injuries as a result of military service. Those blood farts who give you the stink eye won't be around when you're out of the military. Screw them and what they think. Look out for # 1.

BISSBOSS
04-15-2012, 09:14 PM
I wouldn't think twice about going to the Docs.

Two things are blindingly obvious...

1. As stated above - No one else will take care of you. You are the best judge of weather you are in sufficient discomfort to seek medical care.

2. Who cares about the perception? If you come away from the Clinic with a legitimate treatment regiment then who can claim you were "gold bricking"???

And for the record - I agree with Shrike... "We" have cultivated a really sad atmosphere in the AF...

OtisRNeedleman
04-15-2012, 09:18 PM
VFF, get EVERYTHING medically documented...no matter how slight or insignificant it may seem, no matter if everyone in your squadron calls you a 6 foot vag....when you leave the military, you will deal with VA disability and existing injuries as a result of military service. Those blood farts who give you the stink eye won't be around when you're out of the military. Screw them and what they think. Look out for # 1.

ABSOLUTELY! Once you retire, you're no longer as asset to the AF, just a liability. They won't care what you did during your active duty, they just see as you as another pension to be paid. Take care of yourself, and, as previously stated, get everything documented.

OlSarg
04-15-2012, 10:21 PM
F** the folks that might look down on you, get to the Doc. I struggled with "shin splints" for almost five years, after a deployment got a referral to an ortho doc who, after performing some rather painful tests, slapped my ass on the operating table a couple of times. The AF will take out of you what you give it, and afterwards they won't give a crap how F'd up you are....that is the VA's problem.

SENDBILLMONEY
04-15-2012, 11:16 PM
If you have a valid need to go, go and to hell with perceptions. Goal 1 is of course to get you fully fit for duty, but Goal 2 is to document everything that's wrong with you now that wasn't wrong with you when you initially entered military service.

technomage1
04-15-2012, 11:57 PM
Go. But expect the eye of suspicion to lay upon ye. I went in for some pain - pretty severe pain - and even though I said I didn't want a profile I got the eye roll. But I also got an MRI ordered - which, once I got it, showed indisputable, graphic proof that this isn't in my head nor am I angling for a profile for the test.

You have to love it when the MRI techs go - "Aren't you in pain?" just from the images alone....

omertalifestyle
04-16-2012, 12:35 AM
GO GO GO!!! If you don't, you will put yourself into the same position I put myself in because I cared more about perception than what was best for me.

ART
04-16-2012, 01:16 AM
Go.

/thread.

BRUWIN
04-16-2012, 01:26 AM
I have been having a persistent pain that has been progressively getting worst and going to the Doctor...sorry the Medical Hobby Shop soon.

I am wondering if it is an okay time to go...since I am a piece of crap and score below a 90 on my PT test, I have to test twice a year. My next test is due in a couple months.

Is this far enough out to avoid perceptions of just going to the clinic for a profile to avoid the PT test?

Weird how it occurs a few months before your PT test. Why are you trying to get out of your test?

Shrike
04-16-2012, 01:39 AM
Weird how it occurs a few months before your PT test. Why are you trying to get out of your test?

Too obvious. Your skills aren't fading now that you spend most of your time writing checks in the express lane, are they?

:)

VFFSSGT
04-16-2012, 01:45 AM
Weird how it occurs a few months before your PT test. Why are you trying to get out of your test?

Well, retired lazy fat pink polka dot umbrella carrying self-checkout express lane halter chief ...that is what I am trying to figure out. If I test every 6 months, how close to the next test is it too late to go to the medical hobby shop to avoid the short sighted baseless perceptions of your kind?

I ran a 5k the other day and a 1.5 mile in 12 minutes just a few days ago - think the 5k is what made it worst.

Serious note: I am hurt and going to the clinic and I don't care what others think - but the matter of this thread is a real problem out there. I have experienced it before with another issue that I had to have surgery for and seen many others experience it.

BRUWIN
04-16-2012, 02:34 AM
Too obvious. Your skills aren't fading now that you spend most of your time writing checks in the express lane, are they?

:)

It nevers works on regulars. I just do it to keep skills current. Had it been some new dude I'd be having a field day right about now.

Bunch
04-16-2012, 02:37 AM
The way PT test affects our careers now I wont even try to take a PT test having an injury. You see all this people that take pt test with a bad back, bad knees, bad whatever and they pass it and it gives them a false sense of confidence that they will be able to do it over the long run ignoring the fact that whatever injury they have if not treated correctly will get progressively worst and by the time you seek proper care it would be worst for you personally and career wise.

I have been dealing with knee injury for the past year and have been exempted from the run once and this month it looks I will not be able to do the run as I'm still in treatment. That puts me in MEB zone per the AFI but I will refuse to further the risk of permanent injury, it is my right to seek treatment and if the AF kicks me out because of it then so be it.

If you fail your PT test while being injured it just going to compound your problems down the road.

BRUWIN
04-16-2012, 02:53 AM
The way PT test affects our careers now I wont even try to take a PT test having an injury. You see all this people that take pt test with a bad back, bad knees, bad whatever and they pass it and it gives them a false sense of confidence that they will be able to do it over the long run ignoring the fact that whatever injury they have if not treated correctly will get progressively worst and by the time you seek proper care it would be worst for you personally and career wise.

I have been dealing with knee injury for the past year and have been exempted from the run once and this month it looks I will not be able to do the run as I'm still in treatment. That puts me in MEB zone per the AFI but I will refuse to further the risk of permanent injury, it is my right to seek treatment and if the AF kicks me out because of it then so be it.

If you fail your PT test while being injured it just going to compound your problems down the road.

Take it from me...whether you are taking the PT test or not, you will always have pain. Pain is just a fact of life as you get older. My spin has always been that the less you do physically to avoid more pain than the more problems you will have. Might as well push it. I always did...my back has been messed up since I was a SrA. I was working airplanes at the time. When the PT program went all crazy I would work out and I noticed that my back actually got better despite the 4 heirniated disks I have. Yes...I still have problems, and I don't work out when it's serious pain. But if it is bothering me I still do what I can or I get in a pain rut real quick. I don't know...maybe it's just me.

BRUWIN
04-16-2012, 03:00 AM
I ran a 5k the other day and a 1.5 mile in 12 minutes just a few days ago - think the 5k is what made it worst.



What about situps and pushups? Did you purposely avoid them and that's why you want out of the upcoming test?

VFFSSGT
04-16-2012, 03:05 AM
What about situps and pushups? Did you purposely avoid them and that's why you want out of the upcoming test?

Nah, I'm good on those...I'm just a lazy tech trying to avoid the run. :-)

BRUWIN
04-16-2012, 03:15 AM
Nah, I'm good on those...I'm just a lazy tech trying to avoid the run. :-)

You don't seem to forthcoming on the numbers though. I have a funny feeling I'm not getting the whole story here.

Bunch
04-16-2012, 04:05 AM
Take it from me...whether you are taking the PT test or not, you will always have pain. Pain is just a fact of life as you get older. My spin has always been that the less you do physically to avoid more pain than the more problems you will have. Might as well push it. I always did...my back has been messed up since I was a SrA. I was working airplanes at the time. When the PT program went all crazy I would work out and I noticed that my back actually got better despite the 4 heirniated disks I have. Yes...I still have problems, and I don't work out when it's serious pain. But if it is bothering me I still do what I can or I get in a pain rut real quick. I don't know...maybe it's just me.

Common Bru' I've been here long enough!!! Nice try though...

BRUWIN
04-16-2012, 04:10 AM
Common Bru' I've been here long enough!!! Nice try though...

No...serious post. I'm not saying you go out running with a torn ACL or something. But if you are suffering from pain that comes from an injury that can't be repaired than sitting on it doesn't make things any better. I've see people use one injury to stop doing absolutely everything.

Greg
04-16-2012, 04:14 AM
Take it from me...whether you are taking the PT test or not, you will always have pain. Pain is just a fact of life as you get older. My spin has always been that the less you do physically to avoid more pain than the more problems you will have. Might as well push it. I always did...my back has been messed up since I was a SrA. I was working airplanes at the time. When the PT program went all crazy I would work out and I noticed that my back actually got better despite the 4 heirniated disks I have. Yes...I still have problems, and I don't work out when it's serious pain. But if it is bothering me I still do what I can or I get in a pain rut real quick. I don't know...maybe it's just me.

I have two herniated and two hyper-extended with pinched nerves. Light weight training on all body parts and muscle groups to achieve "homeostasis." I installed a towel rod in the hallway to my bathroom to hang from and extend the spine by doing swiveling of the hips to relieve the nerve pain. And here's the kicker, to have a solid foundation, I do Kegler exercises!

Bunch
04-16-2012, 04:17 AM
No...serious post. I'm not saying you go out running with a torn ACL or something. But if you are suffering from pain that comes from an injury that can't be repaired than sitting on it doesn't make things any better. I've see people use one injury to stop doing absolutely everything.

Ok... I see your point, my knee injury doesn't preclude me doing push ups, sit ups or maintaining my a/c to AF standards but it does affect my running... I still keep cardio training with but no high impact activites... I see what you mean though.

My bigger point is that individual health should be the biggest driver in the decision of if I go in a profile or not. Not "how people from my unit are going to look at me?" or "is the AF going to kick me out?"

LivingtheDream
04-16-2012, 06:31 AM
ABSOLUTELY! Once you retire, you're no longer as asset to the AF, just a liability. They won't care what you did during your active duty, they just see as you as another pension to be paid. Take care of yourself, and, as previously stated, get everything documented.

I tried explaining this (me a lowly junior NCO) to a SNCO and he did not buy off. He really thinks the AF is still going to care about him once he retires.

Pullinteeth
04-16-2012, 07:52 AM
It sickens me that this is the environment our senior managementship has cultivated. It's just flat out wrong.

Screw the wankers that may think idiotic thoughts and go take care of yourself. No one else will. Good luck.

I was actually thinking about this the other night. One thing that I think they should do is give everyone a freebie. You fail one, no big deal-two and you have problems. They claim that the PT test (Fit to Fight) is to encourage a lifestyle but it really isn't. For years, I excercised once a year-during my PT test. It wasn't until I failed for the first time that I started to take is seriously. That's why I think everyone should get one freebie. You may be able to skate for a while but not forever. A wake-up call isn't a bad thing but I don't think the first one should be punative....

Drackore
04-16-2012, 08:22 AM
I am also a dirtbag that only scores mid80s on PT tests. However, ever since I damaged my back and have been popping vicodin pills for almost a year now, on and off with a cane...I go to the Medical Hobby Shop so much I should just move my office there. I don't give a rats behind about perceptions. Never have, never will. I've also been to mental health for depression, anxiety, and what THEY claimed to be PTSD (from the same deployment I hurt my back). I still have my Top Secret, and ain't no one going to tell me I am weak because I used them to get my mind right...or close to it. You are hurt - go.

STODR
04-16-2012, 12:23 PM
I have been having a persistent pain that has been progressively getting worst and going to the Doctor...sorry the Medical Hobby Shop soon.

I am wondering if it is an okay time to go...since I am a piece of crap and score below a 90 on my PT test, I have to test twice a year. My next test is due in a couple months.

Is this far enough out to avoid perceptions of just going to the clinic for a profile to avoid the PT test?

There is nothing wrong with going in for treatment. Don't try and push through it because that can come back to bite you if you fail. There are some in leadership that might look down on you but those types will look down on people for anything. Most will look at you and make a determination about you on the whole. If you have never had problems or not many and don't bitch and moan everyday about how unfair the AF PT test is, havn't constantly been on the late list for getting the PT test done then they really dont care. They know people get hurt.

Shrike
04-16-2012, 12:58 PM
I was actually thinking about this the other night. One thing that I think they should do is give everyone a freebie. You fail one, no big deal-two and you have problems. They claim that the PT test (Fit to Fight) is to encourage a lifestyle but it really isn't. For years, I excercised once a year-during my PT test. It wasn't until I failed for the first time that I started to take is seriously. That's why I think everyone should get one freebie. You may be able to skate for a while but not forever. A wake-up call isn't a bad thing but I don't think the first one should be punative....
I think the Navy has something like that. If you take your PT test and the score isn't good you can throw down a figurative "I Had a Bad Day" card. You are then allowed to re-test in a week or so and if you do better on the second one the first score is thrown out. Can any of our Naval brethren that post in here confirm this?

I think it's a great idea and recognizes that on some days people just aren't at their best. But of course, like you said, Pullinteeth, the USAF PT test has nothing to do with fitness or health, so they'd probably never go for it.

Shrike
04-16-2012, 12:59 PM
I tried explaining this (me a lowly junior NCO) to a SNCO and he did not buy off. He really thinks the AF is still going to care about him once he retires.

Is he one of those nine-year MSgts? Or has he spent his entire career wearing blinders? Or is he just dumb?

Booster
04-16-2012, 05:38 PM
*sigh* just another "Airman" who's going to skate out of his duties (Readiness, Deployments, etc.) by riding on a Profile. I've seen so much of this since the new PT test got implemented. You'd think if the USAF had the initiative to improve the force's physical fitness by making a tougher test, that they'd also have the common sense to make it impossible for people to skip this requirement by "getting a profile."

I've seen far too many young, 19 year old - 22 year old, "Airmen" who are on profiles for having busted shins, bad knees, etc. There's simply no way they can be as broken as they claim to be at their age. It's a slap in the face, and yeah most of the rest of the shop/unit whatever is going to look down on them, as they SHOULD be looked down on. No healthy 19 year old kid should have busted knees at their age... and if they do... MEB their ass out. They aren't fit for military life.

FastFalkie
04-16-2012, 07:22 PM
The irony of this story is funny. I was getting in my truck this morning thinking that I have a month until my PT test, but my back is killing me. What will people think...I thought to myself.

I went and got x-rays (have to wait for results), physical therapy, and 30 days of profile. I have a pulled muscle, and pinched nerve (initial diagnosis). I'm glad I went instead of hoping it went away.

I feel guilty about the physical therapy, seeing as how I will be away from here, but I will schedule it later in the day.

Anyway, I guess my long-winded way of saying is do it for you. I never wanted to put anyone in a bind, like it seems as how you're coming across, but don't sit around in pain. People are a lot more understanding than you might believe.

Shrike
04-16-2012, 07:49 PM
*sigh* just another "Airman" who's going to skate out of his duties (Readiness, Deployments, etc.) by riding on a Profile. I've seen so much of this since the new PT test got implemented. You'd think if the USAF had the initiative to improve the force's physical fitness by making a tougher test, that they'd also have the common sense to make it impossible for people to skip this requirement by "getting a profile."

I've seen far too many young, 19 year old - 22 year old, "Airmen" who are on profiles for having busted shins, bad knees, etc. There's simply no way they can be as broken as they claim to be at their age. It's a slap in the face, and yeah most of the rest of the shop/unit whatever is going to look down on them, as they SHOULD be looked down on. No healthy 19 year old kid should have busted knees at their age... and if they do... MEB their ass out. They aren't fit for military life.
VFF doesn't fit your description above at all. Perhaps if you learned something about the person before opening your mouth and inserting your foot you wouldn't come across as a sanctimonious, ignorant blowhard.

Booster
04-16-2012, 09:12 PM
Ok, maybe I jumped the gun... but nothing I said isn't valid. The Fitness Assessment is part of all of our jobs. You knew what you were getting in to when you joined. Now you see tons of young healthy kids showing up to take their test, and getting just the waist measurement. Then they walk out without taking any other component of the test, and get an official Satisfactory stamped on their records. What garbage! How can you have busted knees and bad back problems as a young healthy junior enlisted Airman? 90% of this is just poor integrity. And of course, if you go to the clinic and complain about pain, even if they can't find anything wrong with you, you're still going to get physical therapy and a free ride on your PT test (aka: a Profile)

FastFalkie
04-16-2012, 09:15 PM
Ok, maybe I jumped the gun... but nothing I said isn't valid. The Fitness Assessment is part of all of our jobs. You knew what you were getting in to when you joined. Now you see tons of young healthy kids showing up to take their test, and getting just the waist measurement. Then they walk out without taking any other component of the test, and get an official Satisfactory stamped on their records. What garbage! How can you have busted knees and bad back problems as a young healthy junior enlisted Airman? 90% of this is just poor integrity. And of course, if you go to the clinic and complain about pain, even if they can't find anything wrong with you, you're still going to get physical therapy and a free ride on your PT test (aka: a Profile)


Show the math on your 90% claim.

Booster
04-16-2012, 09:18 PM
Show the math on your 90% claim.

You want math? I'll give you math. My opinion + common sense = the truth.
Ok, maybe that's laying it on a little thick. But you KNOW I'm right.

FastFalkie
04-16-2012, 09:22 PM
You want math? I'll give you math. My opinion + common sense = the truth.
Ok, maybe that's laying it on a little thick. But you KNOW I'm right.

I'll give it to you that I was in better shape at 18 than I am at 39, but there are exceptions...YOU know I'M right.

Solve for "X."

Shrike
04-16-2012, 09:52 PM
You want math? I'll give you math. My opinion + common sense = the truth.
Ok, maybe that's laying it on a little thick. But you KNOW I'm right.

Nope, I don't. The last few times I've tested I've been with a group of about a dozen folks each time. Of those, I've seen about two per test that didn't do all the components. I've seen only one person only get the waist measurement. And as I'm not a medical professional privy to these members' issues I have no basis on which to claim malingering.

So, my experience + not being a medical professional = not jumping to conclusions on what is - when we cut away all the bullshit - just one standard amongst many.

OtisRNeedleman
04-16-2012, 10:08 PM
I tried explaining this (me a lowly junior NCO) to a SNCO and he did not buy off. He really thinks the AF is still going to care about him once he retires.

Sounds like the guy drank too much of the Kool-Aid. He's going to find reality bites, big-time.

OtisRNeedleman
04-16-2012, 10:12 PM
No...serious post. I'm not saying you go out running with a torn ACL or something. But if you are suffering from pain that comes from an injury that can't be repaired than sitting on it doesn't make things any better. I've see people use one injury to stop doing absolutely everything.

True. Exercise is investment, not a liability. Unless you're totally bedridden there are alternative ways to keep the body tuned. Even though I can't presently run I still walk the four miles, five days a week. Need to keep the heart function as strong as possible for the upcoming "valve job".

VFFSSGT
04-16-2012, 10:41 PM
Ok, maybe I jumped the gun... but nothing I said isn't valid. The Fitness Assessment is part of all of our jobs. You knew what you were getting in to when you joined. Now you see tons of young healthy kids showing up to take their test, and getting just the waist measurement. Then they walk out without taking any other component of the test, and get an official Satisfactory stamped on their records. What garbage! How can you have busted knees and bad back problems as a young healthy junior enlisted Airman? 90% of this is just poor integrity. And of course, if you go to the clinic and complain about pain, even if they can't find anything wrong with you, you're still going to get physical therapy and a free ride on your PT test (aka: a Profile)

Now that I see your post is not sarcasm in any form...this thread was specifically created for people of your kind.

Kegler
04-16-2012, 10:50 PM
The Fitness Assessment is part of all of our jobs. You knew what you were getting in to when you joined.

Yes I knew what I was getting into when I joined. A 1.5 mile jog with a couple of cigarette breaks in between laps then slap a stretchy tape around me and I was good to go for a year. I was great at my job fixin' planes and volunteer duty was going to get the Keg and ice at the club for CC call.

technomage1
04-16-2012, 11:15 PM
Yes I knew what I was getting into when I joined. A 1.5 mile jog with a couple of cigarette breaks in between laps then slap a stretchy tape around me and I was good to go for a year. I was great at my job fixin' planes and volunteer duty was going to get the Keg and ice at the club for CC call.

When I joined it was report for a neck/waist taping and a bicycle test. If you failed - the consequences were you had to go to a class and then you smoked, drank a Mt. Dew and then passed no problem.

So according to your logic I should be held to that standard since that was the way it was when I joined.

Kegler
04-16-2012, 11:42 PM
When I joined it was report for a neck/waist taping and a bicycle test. If you failed - the consequences were you had to go to a class and then you smoked, drank a Mt. Dew and then passed no problem.

So according to your logic I should be held to that standard since that was the way it was when I joined.

Not my logic...I was using boosters logic

technomage1
04-17-2012, 12:16 AM
Not my logic...I was using boosters logic

Darn. I would love to go back to that standard, honestly....

LivingtheDream
04-17-2012, 12:43 PM
Is he one of those nine-year MSgts? Or has he spent his entire career wearing blinders? Or is he just dumb?

Number 2 and Number 3... and it depends on what you mean by Number 1... 9 years like he's had it on for 9 years or 9 years like he sewed on in 9 years? Cause he's gonna get hit with HYT if he doesn't make E-8 this next time...

jarjar
04-17-2012, 01:11 PM
How can you have busted knees and bad back problems as a young healthy junior enlisted Airman? 90% of this is just poor integrity. And of course, if you go to the clinic and complain about pain, even if they can't find anything wrong with you, you're still going to get physical therapy and a free ride on your PT test (aka: a Profile)

Actually it is possible when every PT leader thinks that he/she is a certified personal trainer because they went to a four hour course. If you do that on the outside, it takes $1500-$3000, weeks of study and actually knowing what you are talking about. Even better are the Crossfit people that love them some kool-aid. Don't get me wrong, I love Crossfit, but it takes a smart (or at least not stupid) person to teach it to a group without hurting people. When I was a PT leader my first concern was safety - I never worked out with the group. I wasn't there to work out with them, I was there to make sure they don't get hurt.

Nowadays you get some marathon runner Lt or SrA that thinks running 5-10ks and doing a thousand repetitions of everything is a good idea. After all, he can do it, why shouldn't the other fat slobs be able to?

Shrike
04-17-2012, 01:15 PM
Number 2 and Number 3... and it depends on what you mean by Number 1... 9 years like he's had it on for 9 years or 9 years like he sewed on in 9 years? Cause he's gonna get hit with HYT if he doesn't make E-8 this next time...
That one.
.

Shaken1976
04-17-2012, 03:02 PM
I have been exempt from push ups forever. Will probably never do them again. I had a bad break on my right wrist and it wasn't set right nor did it heal right and I refuse to let them rebreak it to fix it right. I went through an MEB for it and since I can do pretty much everything with it just not push ups I was returned to duty. I still get asked about push-ups and when I will be able to do them....the answer is never. My wrist doesn't bend enough to do them.

Booster
04-17-2012, 03:04 PM
Actually it is possible when every PT leader thinks that he/she is a certified personal trainer because they went to a four hour course. If you do that on the outside, it takes $1500-$3000, weeks of study and actually knowing what you are talking about. Even better are the Crossfit people that love them some kool-aid. Don't get me wrong, I love Crossfit, but it takes a smart (or at least not stupid) person to teach it to a group without hurting people. When I was a PT leader my first concern was safety - I never worked out with the group. I wasn't there to work out with them, I was there to make sure they don't get hurt.

Nowadays you get some marathon runner Lt or SrA that thinks running 5-10ks and doing a thousand repetitions of everything is a good idea. After all, he can do it, why shouldn't the other fat slobs be able to?

Sorry. I will absolutely never buy this excuse. The majority of the AF is passing the PT test.. with a staggering number scoring an "Excellent." So this whole argument that "more working out leads to more injuries and an AF that has profiles" just doesn't fly with me. MOST of your peers are doing ok, so maybe you should step up your game. I still feel that even the legitimate injuries are the fault of slacking off and general lack of care. If you sit around for 4 months not working out at all, then try to frantically work out in the last two months before your PT test, of COURSE you're going to hurt yourself. In these cases, that's on you... there shouldn't be a profile handed out to reward destructive behavior. If you want to spend 80% of the time after your last test not working out, you kinda' deserve to fail your next test.

The whole point of the new test is to make Airmen more fit. It's no longer "just a test" that you have to strategically plan for. You're supposed to be able to pass at any time. You should keep your body in shape, and there'd be far less injuries. Zero sympathy for a 19 year old A1C that was a profile for a sore back or a pulled muscle. Man up. I ran my mile and half on a sprained ankle and I never sought a profile, and I ended up passing and it healed itself with one week of rest after my test. How was my body able to cope? Because I'm in good shape, all the time. Not just before I test.

Shrike
04-17-2012, 03:07 PM
I have been exempt from push ups forever. Will probably never do them again. I had a bad break on my right wrist and it wasn't set right nor did it heal right and I refuse to let them rebreak it to fix it right. I went through an MEB for it and since I can do pretty much everything with it just not push ups I was returned to duty. I still get asked about push-ups and when I will be able to do them....the answer is never. My wrist doesn't bend enough to do them.

Well obviously you are of no use to the USAF and are nothing more than a leech on the system. Be gone, welfare queen!

Shrike
04-17-2012, 03:10 PM
Sorry. I will absolutely never buy this excuse. The majority of the AF is passing the PT test.. with a staggering number scoring an "Excellent." So this whole argument that "more working out leads to more injuries and an AF that has profiles" just doesn't fly with me. MOST of your peers are doing ok, so maybe you should step up your game. I still feel that even the legitimate injuries are the fault of slacking off and general lack of care. If you sit around for 4 months not working out at all, then try to frantically work out in the last two months before your PT test, of COURSE you're going to hurt yourself. In these cases, that's on you... there shouldn't be a profile handed out to reward destructive behavior. If you want to spend 80% of the time after your last test not working out, you kinda' deserve to fail your next test.

The whole point of the new test is to make Airmen more fit. It's no longer "just a test" that you have to strategically plan for. You're supposed to be able to pass at any time. You should keep your body in shape, and there'd be far less injuries. Zero sympathy for a 19 year old A1C that was a profile for a sore back or a pulled muscle. Man up. I ran my mile and half on a sprained ankle and I never sought a profile, and I ended up passing and it healed itself with one week of rest after my test. How was my body able to cope? Because I'm in good shape, all the time. Not just before I test.

Really? You have evidence to back up this claim?

Booster
04-17-2012, 03:14 PM
Ok, you got me there. The point of the new test was to reduce health-care costs for the USAF. I know that. That's why they score the test based on "low risk, moderate risk, high risk" etc. But doesn't it stand to reason that if a test exists to reduce healthcare costs, it's doing so by making you more physically fit? (Hint: The answer is yes!)

Shaken1976
04-17-2012, 03:19 PM
Well obviously you are of no use to the USAF and are nothing more than a leech on the system. Be gone, welfare queen!

Dear ShrikeTakBruwin,
I recently separated from the Air Force due to an injury that happened in the line of duty. I feel the Air Force owes me a paycheck for the rest of my life. But they said it is only 10%. But it would have never happened if I had never joined. What can I do to get what I deserve?
Sincerely,
Broked Old Airman.

Shrike
04-17-2012, 03:34 PM
Ok, you got me there. The point of the new test was to reduce health-care costs for the USAF. I know that. That's why they score the test based on "low risk, moderate risk, high risk" etc. But doesn't it stand to reason that if a test exists to reduce healthcare costs, it's doing so by making you more physically fit? (Hint: The answer is yes!)

Really? You have evidence to back up this claim? Seeing that the OPR for the AFI was specifically and conspicuously moved from HAF/SG to HAF/A1, Big Blue has sent a loud and clear message that PT is NOT about health.

Shrike
04-17-2012, 03:39 PM
Dear ShrikeTakBruwin,
I recently separated from the Air Force due to an injury that happened in the line of duty. I feel the Air Force owes me a paycheck for the rest of my life. But they said it is only 10%. But it would have never happened if I had never joined. What can I do to get what I deserve?
Sincerely,
Broked Old Airman.
Dear BOA,
The pension that you would earn over an entire 20+ year career has been denied you because of your injury. That pension could be worth up to or beyond a million dollars. So to make up for that you need to use your 10% disability to get veterans hiring preference and secure a government job. Then use the money from that GS position to buy lottery tickets. Over a long enough period of time the odds are in your favor that you could recoup the amount of pension you're entitled to through lottery winnings. Good luck, and get yourself a lucky quarter for those scratch-off cards!

ShrikeTakBruwin

bb stacker
04-17-2012, 05:40 PM
good advice, but i think rainman is more qualified to give out advice about disability claims...

Shaken1976
04-17-2012, 06:36 PM
good advice, but i think rainman is more qualified to give out advice about disability claims...

I don't think I want an advice column by Rainman

Booster
04-17-2012, 06:40 PM
Really? You have evidence to back up this claim? Seeing that the OPR for the AFI was specifically and conspicuously moved from HAF/SG to HAF/A1, Big Blue has sent a loud and clear message that PT is NOT about health.

Ah, so you're one of THOSE, huh? Yeah... nice try. But the PT test is a poor force-shaping tool, for the following reasons:
1. Profiles! Profiles! Profiles! It's so easy to get one, the only reason anyone ever has for failing their PT test is good integrity!
2. AFI sets in stone when a commander should be looking at discharge for PT failure, and it takes an obscene amount of failures at that.
3. The test is freakin' easy... we have the easiest test of all four branches, including the Navy.

FuelShopTech
04-17-2012, 06:58 PM
I don't think I want an advice column by Rainman

Why not?

Who could resist free medical advice from a guy so highly skilled in the healthcare profession that he doesn't even have to see you to be able to hand out medical evaluations?

Besides, wasn't "Rainman" that retarded guy who could count matchsticks really fast?

Shaken1976
04-17-2012, 07:06 PM
Why not?

Who could resist free medical advice from a guy so highly skilled in the healthcare profession that he doesn't even have to see you to be able to hand out medical evaluations?

Besides, wasn't "Rainman" that retarded guy who could count matchsticks really fast?



Hmmmm You could be right...

Dear Rainman,
I broke my wrist several years ago and it was set wrong and therefore healed wrong. I have limited range of motion with it now. It was broken while working on Active Duty. What should I do to correct this so I won't be a drain on the government when I get out?
Signed,
One Good Hand.

jarjar
04-17-2012, 08:07 PM
Sorry. I will absolutely never buy this excuse. The majority of the AF is passing the PT test.. with a staggering number scoring an "Excellent." So this whole argument that "more working out leads to more injuries and an AF that has profiles" just doesn't fly with me. MOST of your peers are doing ok, so maybe you should step up your game.

The whole point of the new test is to make Airmen more fit.

Man up. I ran my mile and half on a sprained ankle and I never sought a profile, and I ended up passing and it healed itself with one week of rest after my test. How was my body able to cope? Because I'm in good shape, all the time. Not just before I test.

Oh man. You crack me up. I didn't say that more working out makes more injuries and therefore is unhealthy. I said that PT leaders are not certified physical trainers. There is an entire process you have to go through in the civilian world, and like I said, it takes much more than what you get in three hours at the HAWC.

I am also one of those profile babies. I was ordered to run 150%(ish) of my normal capacity, and because it was a lawful order, followed it until I broke. Hell, we were just doing 3-5 miles two times a week, what's the big deal? The big deal is that I had just returned from a deployment, one that involved, you know, combat and flying and stuff. While I was deployed I chose to do my job rather than be a gym queen, and even so, worked up to rowing really fast for a really long time. I didn't have time to do weights and running so I did rowing and calisthenics.

Anyway...after being on a profile, the "doctors" I got to see didn't even order an x-ray until 11 months after the initial injury. Eleven months. I go on a regular basis to say yes, I am still broken, and yes, I still need medical attention, but it doesn't work. Tell me, is it my fault the doctors can't seem to pull their heads from their asses? Or that I tried to show my PT plan (that included running) to the squadron PTLs that wouldn't listen? Or that I'm smarter than the PTL's (I guess that one is)?

The test may not be an effective force shaping tool, but if you look at it from a legal perspective, it is one.

If you ran on a sprained ankle, that's your own fault for being dumb. I've done that too and am paying the price for it now. If your ankle was healed a week after...dude, it wasn't sprained. Just strained. Maybe.

Shrike
04-17-2012, 10:02 PM
Ah, so you're one of THOSE, huh? Yeah... nice try. But the PT test is a poor force-shaping tool, for the following reasons:
1. Profiles! Profiles! Profiles! It's so easy to get one, the only reason anyone ever has for failing their PT test is good integrity!
2. AFI sets in stone when a commander should be looking at discharge for PT failure, and it takes an obscene amount of failures at that.
3. The test is freakin' easy... we have the easiest test of all four branches, including the Navy.
C'mon, Bruwin, you're not going to hook me with such stupid bait.

VFFSSGT
04-17-2012, 11:11 PM
And the initial verdict is...I'm not 18 anymore.

Physical Therapy and Glucoseamine Chondroitin. I didn't see that coming a mile away.

Got to say though....if PCM's are going to start 'prescribing' GC, the base pharmacy needs to start carrying it.

Oh and the most important part. The doctor thought I was making it all up and wouldn't give me a profile.

Actually...I was asked if I needed a profile and I said no thanks for now.

bb stacker
04-17-2012, 11:16 PM
gc is a fucking waste of time. been taking it for months and my knees still feel like crap. of course they never see the need for x-rays, but apparently the va saw something on the ones they took.

VFFSSGT
06-21-2012, 02:43 AM
With the latest AFT Cover Story...I shall revive this thread.

Rainmaker
06-21-2012, 07:21 PM
Hmmmm You could be right...

Dear Rainman,
I broke my wrist several years ago and it was set wrong and therefore healed wrong. I have limited range of motion with it now. It was broken while working on Active Duty. What should I do to correct this so I won't be a drain on the government when I get out?
Signed,
One Good Hand.


Just Use your other hand and stop being such a pussy.

VFFTSGT
03-27-2013, 04:50 AM
Well, a year later and a few military doctors failing...went off base and found the problem.

JD2780
03-27-2013, 12:37 PM
Well, a year later and a few military doctors failing...went off base and found the problem.

Not surprised.

JD2780
03-27-2013, 12:37 PM
Well, a year later and a few military doctors failing...went off base and found the problem.

Not surprised.

TheWife
03-27-2013, 04:25 PM
Ok, maybe I jumped the gun... but nothing I said isn't valid. The Fitness Assessment is part of all of our jobs. You knew what you were getting in to when you joined. Now you see tons of young healthy kids showing up to take their test, and getting just the waist measurement. Then they walk out without taking any other component of the test, and get an official Satisfactory stamped on their records. What garbage! How can you have busted knees and bad back problems as a young healthy junior enlisted Airman? 90% of this is just poor integrity. And of course, if you go to the clinic and complain about pain, even if they can't find anything wrong with you, you're still going to get physical therapy and a free ride on your PT test (aka: a Profile)

Obviously they aren't "healthy" because the Dr's are finding things wrong with them.
I've been fighting shin pain since day one of PT in basic training. 4 years later I'm still going strong and I haven't failed yet. Have I been on and off of profiles, absolutely. I've never been exempt from a component though. This year was this first year I didn't make a 90 or above and that's because I slacked off. Your assumptions are ridiculous. People have to take care of themselves, the Air Force can't give them and new body...

F4CrewChick
03-30-2013, 06:55 AM
ABSOFUCKINGLUTELY get this documented--and ANYONE who is still AD, get copies of EVERY SINGLE VISIT. Start a file and get every piece of paper from every medical visit while active duty. Once you get out or retire, these records will expedite your VA claim by half.

FLAPS
03-30-2013, 10:19 AM
Before starting terminal leave I went to the hospital for aches and pains the I've had for years. Like others have said, if it's not at least documented in your records, then it will be real tough to tie the (now worse) same condition back to your time in the service.

KellyinAvon
03-30-2013, 12:06 PM
"Things don't hurt less as you get older"--Everyone who has gotten older
Getting it documented is a vital 1st step. Keep plugging away and don't give up is step 2.

imported_ManOSteel
03-30-2013, 02:11 PM
And as I'm not a medical professional privy to these members' issues I have no basis on which to claim malingering.
So, my experience + not being a medical professional = not jumping to conclusions on what is - when we cut away all the bullshit - just one standard amongst many.

Well stated. Due to privacy issues, most people do not get to know the full story on why people are on profiles. Are some of them working the system? Sure, that's going on but in many cases, the system is working to allow someone a break from the full PT test while they get care they need. You can miss wildly by making an uninformed judgement on why someone is not doing the full fitness test. Then you would be part of the problem. Some of this stuff makes more sense when you get older and your own body starts to get injured more easily and heal more slowly. I find that having a smoke and crispy cream with some medical colleagues allows me a chance to keep all this in perspective.

efmbman
03-30-2013, 04:47 PM
ABSOFUCKINGLUTELY get this documented--and ANYONE who is still AD, get copies of EVERY SINGLE VISIT. Start a file and get every piece of paper from every medical visit while active duty. Once you get out or retire, these records will expedite your VA claim by half.

True words! In fact, I will go on to say that no one should be discouraged by getting a 0 rating for any condition. A 0 rating is the VA's way of acknowledging that condition, but not awarding any compensation for it. Simply stated, it is now on the list. As you age and mature, your body will change... perhaps even revolt. Since your 0's are on the list, they may (in 10-15 years) become a 10 or a 20. The math that determines total compensation is odd, but accurate.

When filing a claim, one of the steps is to get a physical exam at the VA. The office that conducts this is called Compensation and Pension. That is your chance to complain, bitch and gripe about every ache and pain. You will be observed performing range of motion tests for major joints. Your ability is directly related to the disability rating. As F4CC said, paperwork is critical. If it was not written down, it did not happen. You are entitled to a free copy of all your medical records to include printouts from the electronic medical records. Some bases will put it all on a CD to save costs, but you still have and the VA will accept it. I mention this because it ties in to the paragraph above - during that first physical exam, have the paperwork to support that your issue happened on AD. Showing the connection 10-15 years later is much more difficult, and we all know the rules may change over time.

Not preaching, just trying to help.

efmbman
03-30-2013, 06:29 PM
...we all know the rules may change over time.

Ironically, an article just today about the rules changing...

http://www.stripes.com/news/veterans/veterans-fight-changes-to-disability-payments-1.214329

Pay attention out there.

F4CrewChick
03-31-2013, 12:14 PM
True words! In fact, I will go on to say that no one should be discouraged by getting a 0 rating for any condition. A 0 rating is the VA's way of acknowledging that condition, but not awarding any compensation for it. Simply stated, it is now on the list. As you age and mature, your body will change... perhaps even revolt. Since your 0's are on the list, they may (in 10-15 years) become a 10 or a 20. The math that determines total compensation is odd, but accurate.

When filing a claim, one of the steps is to get a physical exam at the VA. The office that conducts this is called Compensation and Pension. That is your chance to complain, bitch and gripe about every ache and pain. You will be observed performing range of motion tests for major joints. Your ability is directly related to the disability rating. As F4CC said, paperwork is critical. If it was not written down, it did not happen. You are entitled to a free copy of all your medical records to include printouts from the electronic medical records. Some bases will put it all on a CD to save costs, but you still have and the VA will accept it. I mention this because it ties in to the paragraph above - during that first physical exam, have the paperwork to support that your issue happened on AD. Showing the connection 10-15 years later is much more difficult, and we all know the rules may change over time.

Not preaching, just trying to help.Comp & Pen is a two and sometimes three step process. Your medical evaluation will be based on your complaints so if it ain't ortho, you probably won't get a range of motion eval. As efmbman said, take a thorough inventory of all your aches, pains, accidents, injuries AND REPORT THEM. I CANNOT EMPHASIZE THIS POINT ENOUGH.

AGAIN, IF YOU ARE ACTIVE DUTY, GET COPIES OF ALL YOUR MEDICAL RECORDS, REGARDLESS OF HOW UNIMPORTANT OR MINOR. KEEP EVERYTHING. CDS and paper records are all part of your VA EMR (electronic medical record) but things go missing, so a back-up of your own is highly desirable. Also the DoD, VA, and each Branch Department, DO NOT coordinate records. GET YOUR RECORDS.

Also a "0%" rating means more than you think, especially if you have several zero ratings for different complaints. 3 or 4 zero ratings actually add up to a 10% rating. It's the VA's new math. So, complain about all injuries, etc, no matter how insignificant you find it to be, 'cause i didn't see you in med school and medical professionals should make the evaluation. Hearing loss (my fellow crewdogs), vision problems, lung issues, joint pain, mobility problems and depending on your AFSC (Rate, MOS, etc.), there are certain injuries endemic to particular jobs (like the aforementioned flightline jobs), so pay attention to what your body complains about.

Do these things, and when you're older and things are going South body-wise, you will get the care and attention YOU EARNED BY SERVING YOUR COUNTRY. Who knows? I may even be a provider of yours someday.

KellyinAvon
03-31-2013, 12:32 PM
Comp & Pen is a two and sometimes three step process. Your medical evaluation will be based on your complaints so if it ain't ortho, you probably won't get a range of motion eval. As efmbman said, take a thorough inventory of all your aches, pains, accidents, injuries AND REPORT THEM. I CANNOT EMPHASIZE THIS POINT ENOUGH.

AGAIN, IF YOU ARE ACTIVE DUTY, GET COPIES OF ALL YOUR MEDICAL RECORDS, REGARDLESS OF HOW UNIMPORTANT OR MINOR. KEEP EVERYTHING. CDS and paper records are all part of your VA EMR (electronic medical record) but things go missing, so a back-up of your own is highly desirable. Also the DoD, VA, and each Branch Department, DO NOT coordinate records. GET YOUR RECORDS.

Also a "0%" rating means more than you think, especially if you have several zero ratings for different complaints. 3 or 4 zero ratings actually add up to a 10% rating. It's the VA's new math. So, complain about all injuries, etc, no matter how insignificant you find it to be, 'cause i didn't see you in med school and medical professionals should make the evaluation. Hearing loss (my fellow crewdogs), vision problems, lung issues, joint pain, mobility problems and depending on your AFSC (Rate, MOS, etc.), there are certain injuries endemic to particular jobs (like the aforementioned flightline jobs), so pay attention to what your body complains about.

Do these things, and when you're older and things are going South body-wise, you will get the care and attention YOU EARNED BY SERVING YOUR COUNTRY. Who knows? I may even be a provider of yours someday.

And if you deal with more than one VA Med Center and things seem completly different just remember our saying, "If you've seen one VA Med Center, you've seen one VA Med Center."

efmbman
03-31-2013, 12:44 PM
...Also a "0%" rating means more than you think, especially if you have several zero ratings for different complaints. 3 or 4 zero ratings actually add up to a 10% rating. It's the VA's new math.

True, perhaps I was wrong to state it as I did. Here is how the math works (as it was explained to me):

Steve is applying for compensation at the VA. You have the following conditions noted in your medical records and observed at your medical exam:

Lumbar osteoarthritis - 10%
Left knee patellofemoral syndrome - 10%
Right knee patellofemoral syndrome - 10%
Hypertension - 20%
Obstructive sleep apnea - 50%

Steve is a whole person, and that principle is used throughout the math. Each condition is ranked highest to lowest and applied to 100% of Steve. Since we start with 100% and the highest rating is 50%, that leaves us with:

50% compensation / 50% of Steve remaining.

Next up is the hypertension for 20%. We only have 50% of Steve remaining to work with, so 20% of 50% is 10% additional compensation which is added to the total compensation so far.

60% (50+10) compensation / 30% (100-50-20) of Steve remaining.

Then the remain 10% ratings are applied one at a time. 10% of 30% is 3%.

63% (50+10+3) compensation / 20% (100-50-20-10) of Steve remaining.

10% of 20% is 2%...

65% (50+10+3+2) compensation / 10% (100-50-20-10-10) of Steve remaining.

10% of 10% is 1%...

66% (50+10+3+2+1) compensation / 0% (100-50-20-10-10-10) of Steve remaining.

The VA only deals in multiples of 10%. Until you cross the threshold of a 10% rating, you are rated at the lower level. For Steve, since he has not reached the 70% level, his rating is topped off at 60%.

This is how it was explained to me by several different people I know that work specifically in this field for the VA. If anyone has other information, please share it. I feel all vets have a right to know how the rating is calculated.

imported_ManOSteel
03-31-2013, 05:02 PM
This is how it was explained to me by several different people I know that work specifically in this field for the VA. If anyone has other information, please share it. I feel all vets have a right to know how the rating is calculated.

Damn! That's confusing. I appreciate you breaking it down but it certainly does seem like a system that makes it exceedingly hard for people to "know how the rating is calculated". One of my beefs with VA is that it almost seems like processes are made unnecessarily complicated. There's too many forms using jargon and too many things like this calculation that you have to study to grasp. If this is really the best way of doing it, they should make a very clear flyer for people to read. Why is it that people have to go to the effort you did, asking around, putting it all together? Some of the injured vets are the least able to do that--how's a guy with a traumatic brain injury supposed to figure all this out when daily living may be a struggle. Sometimes it seems like the VA has lost touch with caring for veterans...

Greg
03-31-2013, 05:52 PM
"The Center for Investigative Reporting is releasing today data used in our recent report detailing how the Department of Veterans Affairs’ ability to quickly provide benefits to veterans has virtually collapsed under President Barack Obama.

The data reveals a department increasingly unable to respond in a timely manner to more than 822,000 veterans’ claims of disease, injury or illness sustained while serving the U.S. military. Altogether, more than 900,000 veterans are waiting for disability, pension and education benefits. The data is viewable on CIR’s interactive map, also seen below.

Today marks the first time the public can view this information for all 58 regional VA offices where claims are processed. New data points, available on a monthly basis going back to late 2010, include:

The number of veterans waiting a year or more for a response to their claim
The average wait time for veterans filing their first claim
The average number of claims completed per VA employee
The number of new claims

Before today, the only data about the backlog was published by the VA on a weekly and monthly basis and offered little insight into productivity and wait times."

http://cironline.org/blog/post/newly-released-data-reveal-extent-veterans-backlog-4324

VFFTSGT
03-31-2013, 06:55 PM
Damn! That's confusing. I appreciate you breaking it down but it certainly does seem like a system that makes it exceedingly hard for people to "know how the rating is calculated". One of my beefs with VA is that it almost seems like processes are made unnecessarily complicated. There's too many forms using jargon and too many things like this calculation that you have to study to grasp. If this is really the best way of doing it, they should make a very clear flyer for people to read. Why is it that people have to go to the effort you did, asking around, putting it all together? Some of the injured vets are the least able to do that--how's a guy with a traumatic brain injury supposed to figure all this out when daily living may be a struggle. Sometimes it seems like the VA has lost touch with caring for veterans...

It's somewhat confusing, but the information is out there....people should stop relying on Jim Bob's stories and read for themselves... Also, using Vet Orgs an/or VA Service Officers. The way I hear it is people who have problems with claims are those who try to do it all by themselves. We all get a VA briefing at separation and can go more than once. In that briefing they tell you not to do it all alone...then people do. Another common problem I keep hearing about is people's procrastination and not filing until after they get out rather than while they are still in the service...the more time that passes the more difficult it is to tie it to service-related.

It's somewhat simplified here and has a table to do the math for you...
http://www.benefits.va.gov/COMPENSATION/rates-index.asp

Diagnostic Codes/Percentages available here:
http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?c=ecfr&rgn=div5&view=text&node=38:1.0.1.1.5&idno=38

So, a few things I would like to know about the 900,000 backlog mentioned in another post:
1. How many vets are getting out now versus previous years.
2. How people filed...through a service office, with help of vet orgs, by themselves, online, etc.
3. When people filed..in service, within a month of sep, more than 6 months, 1 year, etc.
4. How much of their claims are tied to complaints from PCM visits in the service

efmbman
03-31-2013, 08:29 PM
It's somewhat confusing, but the information is out there....people should stop relying on Jim Bob's stories and read for themselves... Also, using Vet Orgs an/or VA Service Officers.

I don't want to be a "Jim Bob", but I recently went through this process, so I just wanted to help.

The above... very true. I used a local VSO and my rating was established in about 4 months. I got a notice from DFAS and the VA this last week explaining the retirement pay and the compensation pay so I am all set. My retirement date was 1 SEP 2012.


Another common problem I keep hearing about is people's procrastination and not filing until after they get out rather than while they are still in the service...the more time that passes the more difficult it is to tie it to service-related.

Oddly, most of the people I know (including myself) that retired in the last year had their claims settled in about 4-6 months while those that started the process while still on AD are in the 18-24 month waiting category. This is anecdotal, of course. I have no research to back it up. It just is. I have also read/heard that your geographic location plays a huge part in the time you wait. Oakland, Baltimore and Nebraska are the some of worst from what I understand.

VFFTSGT
03-31-2013, 08:44 PM
I don't want to be a "Jim Bob", but I recently went through this process, so I just wanted to help.

The above... very true. I used a local VSO and my rating was established in about 4 months. I got a notice from DFAS and the VA this last week explaining the retirement pay and the compensation pay so I am all set. My retirement date was 1 SEP 2012.

I know, I wasn't calling you a Jim Bob...just the guy that responded to you made it out like they make this process so hard and hide the information...when the information is there for the reading. :)


Oddly, most of the people I know (including myself) that retired in the last year had their claims settled in about 4-6 months while those that started the process while still on AD are in the 18-24 month waiting category. This is anecdotal, of course. I have no research to back it up. It just is. I have also read/heard that your geographic location plays a huge part in the time you wait. Oakland, Baltimore and Nebraska are the some of worst from what I understand.

All I got is anecdotal too...wish all these complaints about the 900,000 backlog had more data, but they seem more agenda driven than practically driven.

Greg
03-31-2013, 09:14 PM
I know, I wasn't calling you a Jim Bob...just the guy that responded to you made it out like they make this process so hard and hide the information...when the information is there for the reading. :)

All I got is anecdotal too...wish all these complaints about the 900,000 backlog had more data, but they seem more agenda driven than practically driven.

I think ManOSteel's post was spot on, at least by my experience with VAMC Wade Park, in Cleveland, Ohio.

I've experienced lack of communication and response to my concerns by my primary provider.
I've had the patient advocate stone-wall me when approached with my complaints about the primary.
Ineptness by physical therapy to the point where I don't bother with appointments. It's just as well, the environment is depressing.

For over two years, I've complained about the aggravation to my surgical scar that never healed properly, during AD, brought about by the exercises I preform due to my back injury. Now, lo and behold, I had emergency surgery this past November due to a bowel obstruction. A bowel obstruction brought on by that same surgical scar that split open, allowing part of my lower colon to "knuckle" outside of the abdominal wall, causing waste to back up and my abdomen to extend out like I was eight or nine months pregnant!

This surgery was perform at a local hospital because the VAMC is located on the other side of town and my need was immediate!
To add insult to injury, VAMC Wade Park refuse to authorize payment because I didn't fit the criteria. I sat down with the DAV rep, and within fifteen minutes documented how, indeed, I met all five points of criteria!

I apologize for the rant, but I'm sick and tired of the bullshit when dealing with the fucking VA!
I swear to God, it does seem as if they go out of their way to screw vets over.

F4CrewChick
03-31-2013, 11:37 PM
True, perhaps I was wrong to state it as I did. Here is how the math works (as it was explained to me):

Steve is applying for compensation at the VA. You have the following conditions noted in your medical records and observed at your medical exam:

Lumbar osteoarthritis - 10%
Left knee patellofemoral syndrome - 10%
Right knee patellofemoral syndrome - 10%
Hypertension - 20%
Obstructive sleep apnea - 50%

Steve is a whole person, and that principle is used throughout the math. Each condition is ranked highest to lowest and applied to 100% of Steve. Since we start with 100% and the highest rating is 50%, that leaves us with:

50% compensation / 50% of Steve remaining.

Next up is the hypertension for 20%. We only have 50% of Steve remaining to work with, so 20% of 50% is 10% additional compensation which is added to the total compensation so far.

60% (50+10) compensation / 30% (100-50-20) of Steve remaining.

Then the remain 10% ratings are applied one at a time. 10% of 30% is 3%.

63% (50+10+3) compensation / 20% (100-50-20-10) of Steve remaining.

10% of 20% is 2%...

65% (50+10+3+2) compensation / 10% (100-50-20-10-10) of Steve remaining.

10% of 10% is 1%...

66% (50+10+3+2+1) compensation / 0% (100-50-20-10-10-10) of Steve remaining.

The VA only deals in multiples of 10%. Until you cross the threshold of a 10% rating, you are rated at the lower level. For Steve, since he has not reached the 70% level, his rating is topped off at 60%.

This is how it was explained to me by several different people I know that work specifically in this field for the VA. If anyone has other information, please share it. I feel all vets have a right to know how the rating is calculated.Yes, that is the formula used to calculate disability rating. And the 0+0+0 calculation is also correct.
About Steve's 60% 'top off' since Steve has osteoarthritis which never improves, his rating will go up but he needs to reapply for a new rating. He will not get it automatically even though his increased pain, decreased mobility is in his record--he must reapply.

F4CrewChick
03-31-2013, 11:58 PM
Damn! That's confusing. I appreciate you breaking it down but it certainly does seem like a system that makes it exceedingly hard for people to "know how the rating is calculated". One of my beefs with VA is that it almost seems like processes are made unnecessarily complicated. There's too many forms using jargon and too many things like this calculation that you have to study to grasp. If this is really the best way of doing it, they should make a very clear flyer for people to read. Why is it that people have to go to the effort you did, asking around, putting it all together? Some of the injured vets are the least able to do that--how's a guy with a traumatic brain injury supposed to figure all this out when daily living may be a struggle. Sometimes it seems like the VA has lost touch with caring for veterans...Actually, the VA has been fully funded only since Obama has been in office. Prior to that, for the first 70 years of it's life it was never fully funded. The VA is really better than it's ever been but the admin side of things are still in the dark ages. There has been lots of media focus on this of late, so I am hoping for improvements. The good news is that you can get excellent healthcare for the rest of your life once you jump through the VA hoops.

efmbman
04-01-2013, 12:40 AM
Yes, that is the formula used to calculate disability rating. And the 0+0+0 calculation is also correct.
About Steve's 60% 'top off' since Steve has osteoarthritis which never improves, his rating will go up but he needs to reapply for a new rating. He will not get it automatically even though his increased pain, decreased mobility is in his record--he must reapply.

Thanks F4CC. Do you know if there is a VA specific terminology for when one reapplies?

Chief_KO
04-01-2013, 01:08 PM
Tread carefully when you look to get your rating increased. I've known more than a few that walked out with ratings decreased.

Pullinteeth
04-01-2013, 06:18 PM
Ironically, an article just today about the rules changing...

http://www.stripes.com/news/veterans/veterans-fight-changes-to-disability-payments-1.214329

Pay attention out there.

Ok, correct me if I am wrong here but isn't VA disability different than Social Security disability? The article says that Obama wants to change the inflation indicator for Social Security then abruptly changes to talking about the impact of changing the index for VA disability....


Actually, the VA has been fully funded only since Obama has been in office. Prior to that, for the first 70 years of it's life it was never fully funded. The VA is really better than it's ever been but the admin side of things are still in the dark ages. There has been lots of media focus on this of late, so I am hoping for improvements. The good news is that you can get excellent healthcare for the rest of your life once you jump through the VA hoops.

Bullshit.


As a federal department the VA can ONLY spend what they are budgeted for. And their budget is more than 200X what it was in 1940...It started a steady climb in about 2000 (before your hero came into office) and skyrocketed until about 2010 when it basically leveled off...

Budget authority—the amount of money a federal department or agency can spend or obligate to spend by law—for veterans’ benefits and services has increased significantly since FY1940. In FY1940, the budget authority for veterans’ benefits and services was $561.1 million, and in FY2012 the budget authority was $125.3 billion, or more than 200 times the FY1940 budget
authority. In constant 2011 dollars (i.e., inflation-adjusted), the FY2012 budget authority is 14 times the FY1940 budget authority.

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RS22897.pdf

F4CrewChick
04-01-2013, 08:17 PM
Thanks F4CC. Do you know if there is a VA specific terminology for when one reapplies?If you already have a VA disability rating and you believe it should be higher, if it is your first claim and rating, you appeal the decision. If it is an established condition you've been rated for which needs to be increased, you need to fill out a "STATEMENT IN SUPPORT OF CLAIM" VA Form 21-4138 (http://www.vba.va.gov/pubs/forms/vba-21-4138-are.pdf). Get additional letters from doctors, and other supporting info to file with this statement.