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CORNELIUSSEON
04-13-2012, 01:04 AM
Since becoming the first African-American to graduate from the Coast Guard Academy in 1966, Merle Smith has seen more diversity among the corps of cadets. But he says the academy still has work to do to better reflect the face of America.
The service academy, which is honoring Smith with a pioneer award Sunday, has been getting pressure from Congress to boost enrollment of minorities, particularly African-Americans, who account for about 5 percent of incoming cadets.

Read more about it here:http://www.militarytimes.com/news/2012/03/ap-coast-guard-academy-honor-first-black-graduate-033012/

Robert F. Dorr
07-06-2012, 12:51 PM
The Coast Guard and the Coast Guard Academy deserve credit for making a mid-course adjustment and getting out in front on equal-opportunity issues. Even in the short time since the above post appeared, things have improved a lot.

Rusty Jones
07-06-2012, 05:50 PM
The service academy, which is honoring Smith with a pioneer award Sunday, has been getting pressure from Congress to boost enrollment of minorities, particularly African-Americans, who account for about 5 percent of incoming cadets.

It's always been my understanding that admission to the Coast Guard Academy doesn't involve Congressmen the way the other service academies do, and that it's more similar to trying to get into most other four-year universities with the exception of having to meet the requirements to serve in the Coast Guard.

Robert F. Dorr
07-06-2012, 08:04 PM
From the Coast Guard Academy web site:

Q: Do I need a congressional nomination?
A: No. Admittance is based solely on personal merit.

FLAPS
07-06-2012, 11:09 PM
The Coast Guard and the Coast Guard Academy deserve credit for making a mid-course adjustment and getting out in front on equal-opportunity issues. Even in the short time since the above post appeared, things have improved a lot.

Not sure I understand how "boosting" minority numbers can be done without discriminating against otherwise equally (or more) qualified white people.

Robert F. Dorr
07-06-2012, 11:37 PM
Not sure I understand how "boosting" minority numbers can be done without discriminating against otherwise equally (or more) qualified white people.

It's very difficult to find the right balance. No question. I believe in integration. I'm not so sure, though, about diversity.

FLAPS
07-07-2012, 03:05 AM
It's very difficult to find the right balance. No question. I believe in integration. I'm not so sure, though, about diversity.

Fair integration can only happen naturally, not by force. It's sad that in the name of "equality," many people insist that we apply some form of affirmative action to "right" the balance. The problem is, this very practice is discriminatory. I personally had absolutely NOTHING to do with the atrocities or discrimination against black people over the last 200 years. Why is it that I have to pay the price? Discrimination is discrimination, no matter how you apply it. Maybe one day it will stop.

golfer55
07-07-2012, 05:20 AM
It's very difficult to find the right balance. No question. I believe in integration. I'm not so sure, though, about diversity.

Intergration absolutley. Diversity programs are complete bullshit though.

Robert F. Dorr
07-07-2012, 05:23 AM
Yes. FLAPS and golfer55 have it about right. Good points.

golfer55
07-07-2012, 05:37 AM
If your not the most qualified, not my problem. Do something to make yourself the most qualified. Don't push the bullshit diversity programs that eliminate MORE qualified people so institutions can look like a freakin rainbow of colors. It's complete crap in my book. Shit gets me agrivated about as much as people who push politically correctness around

rant over

Robert F. Dorr
12-25-2012, 04:29 PM
Yes. FLAPS and golfer55 have it about right. Good points.

The make-up of the population of the United States has changed not because of blacks, who were here all along and merely had to wait for their civil liberties, but because of immigration. You can pooh-pooh diversity all you want but you can't escape it. By 2050, there will be more native-born American adults whose only language is Spanish than native-born American adults whose only language is English. The academies are going to reflect this unless we get rid of the academies altogether. That's what we should do because it's a preposterously expensive way to produce an officer.

Pullinteeth
01-14-2013, 08:57 PM
I think people are using the term diversity in reference to the diversity programs not diversity itself... The objection isn't to having a diverse workforce (IMO), it is to the artificial methods used to create the diversity.

Robert F. Dorr
02-11-2013, 02:50 AM
My generation is the one that created the civil rights movement. The goal was integration. That's what Martin Luther King was fighting for. Integration. Not diversity. If you achieve integration, everyone is treated equally and no one cares at all about anyone's skin color. The best way to know that we still haven't achieved integration is to realize that we still have Black History Month. (See my column in the February 19 Air Force Times, published February 11).

I'd like an America where we're color blind. Not an American where we celebrate people's race.

Robert F. Dorr
02-11-2013, 02:51 AM
I think people are using the term diversity in reference to the diversity programs not diversity itself... The objection isn't to having a diverse workforce (IMO), it is to the artificial methods used to create the diversity.

You think? How do you distinguish between the two?

CORNELIUSSEON
03-07-2013, 03:20 AM
My generation is the one that created the civil rights movement. The goal was integration. That's what Martin Luther King was fighting for. Integration. Not diversity. If you achieve integration, everyone is treated equally and no one cares at all about anyone's skin color. The best way to know that we still haven't achieved integration is to realize that we still have Black History Month. (See my column in the February 19 Air Force Times, published February 11).

I'd like an America where we're color blind. Not an American where we celebrate people's race.

I was 6 years old when Brown vs. Board Of Education was decided, and was 17 when Johnson’s Civil Rights Act, and his Voting Rights Act were passed. I was in Vietnam when ML King was murdered. So, I know first-hand what it was that the Civil Rights Movement was all about, and Integration – per se – was NOT very high on the list of goals of the movement.The principle goal of the Civil Rights Movement (which was never officially identified as an African American organization since the membership of that organization consisted of other organizations of various origins, some of them African American, some of them Jewish, some of the Political and some of them Religious) was to address the fact that the 1st, 4th, 5th, 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments to the US Constitution were not being applied equally across the full spectrum of American Citizens. Yes, Integration was ONE of the goals, but it wasn’t the be-all and end-all goal of the movement.One thing that did charge up the movement was the famous poem by MARTIN NIEMÖLLER:“First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Socialist.”

“Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.”

“Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Jew.”

“Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me.”

CORNELIUSSEON
04-02-2013, 03:35 AM
Corny, we get it...you're old and you think you know everything.

To borrow from Wilson Mizner: "I hate careless flattery, the kind that exhausts one in one's effort to believe it."

RobotChicken
04-02-2013, 04:39 AM
How about 'Jesse Brown'?

CORNELIUSSEON
05-10-2013, 06:45 PM
How about 'Jesse Brown'?

Jesse Brown. 4 years my senior. Good academic record. He enlisted in the Marine Corps in 1963 and maintained a good military record, and came home from Nam with a Golden B-B which resulted in his release from Active Duty two years early. He joined the DAV, and advanced through its management ranks to the post of Director, which post he retained until selected for Secretary of Veterans Affairs by President Clinton. He served until 1997, whereupon he resigned to found a consulting firm. He was diagnosed with Lou Gherig's Disease in 1999, and passed away in 2002 at the age of 58. He's buried in Arlington. His wound got him a Purple Heart. His other decorations would be the Vietnam Service medal, the Vietnam Campaign Medal with 2 Campaign Stars, and the Republic of Vietnam Cross of Gallantry With Palm. It most likely was his Directorship of the DAV that got him noticed by Clinton, and it was his service as Secretary of Veterans' Affairs that got him his plot at Arlington.

imported_WILDJOKER5
05-10-2013, 07:29 PM
So, what if of all the applications being racieve by the academy are from only 5% blacks? Wouldnt 5% addmission to the school be in essence equal? From all the stereo typing I have herd, dont know for fact I admit, but there isnt much love of blacks and water. Please correct me if I am wrong. But if I am right, 5% applications to the school would be a normal amount coming from a demographic that is only 12% of the country.

How can you bulster the amount of blacks in the academy if there isnt the drive to be in the academy? Unless there is a boost to the addmission scores for blacks to make sure there is 12% admission to those that only comprise 5% of the applications, I dont see how else you can get more diversity without the interest. But hey, if you feel blacks are too stupid to do it on their own and need government help, then I guess we all know where you stand and the respect for your own race.

Measure Man
05-10-2013, 09:14 PM
It's very difficult to find the right balance. No question. I believe in integration. I'm not so sure, though, about diversity.

Integrate into what?


I think people are using the term diversity in reference to the diversity programs not diversity itself... The objection isn't to having a diverse workforce (IMO), it is to the artificial methods used to create the diversity.

I can go along with that.


My generation is the one that created the civil rights movement. The goal was integration. That's what Martin Luther King was fighting for. Integration. Not diversity. If you achieve integration, everyone is treated equally and no one cares at all about anyone's skin color. The best way to know that we still haven't achieved integration is to realize that we still have Black History Month. (See my column in the February 19 Air Force Times, published February 11).

I'd like an America where we're color blind. Not an American where we celebrate people's race.

I'm not so sure...I don't think we need to ignore our differences.


So, what if of all the applications being racieve by the academy are from only 5% blacks? Wouldnt 5% addmission to the school be in essence equal? From all the stereo typing I have herd, dont know for fact I admit, but there isnt much love of blacks and water. Please correct me if I am wrong. But if I am right, 5% applications to the school would be a normal amount coming from a demographic that is only 12% of the country.

Well, I think you ask yourself..."Why is it that blacks don't want to come here? What about us is not appealing to blacks? Is it our image? Is it something we do? Is it because we don't recruit in black areas? Is it because our standards of dress and appearance and conduct are all based off of white cultural norms?

If it really is just that they don't like to be around water, then there isn't much we can do about that, I mean, we are the coast guard...but, I think it's valid to probe a little deeper and find out why blacks aren't interested in the Coast Guard, if that is even true.


How can you bulster the amount of blacks in the academy if there isnt the drive to be in the academy? Unless there is a boost to the addmission scores for blacks to make sure there is 12% admission to those that only comprise 5% of the applications, I dont see how else you can get more diversity without the interest. But hey, if you feel blacks are too stupid to do it on their own and need government help, then I guess we all know where you stand and the respect for your own race.

You create the interest through marketing.

imported_WILDJOKER5
05-13-2013, 01:28 PM
Well, I think you ask yourself..."Why is it that blacks don't want to come here? What about us is not appealing to blacks? Is it our image? Is it something we do? Is it because we don't recruit in black areas? Is it because our standards of dress and appearance and conduct are all based off of white cultural norms?

If it really is just that they don't like to be around water, then there isn't much we can do about that, I mean, we are the coast guard...but, I think it's valid to probe a little deeper and find out why blacks aren't interested in the Coast Guard, if that is even true.

Why should there be a specific targeting of advertising specificly for blacks? What in the black culture does the coast guard need to target? There is a pretty significant overlap in white and black cultures and people seem to think they are mutally exclusive. Maybe Corny can fill us in if there is some part of the black culture that needs to be more targeted for recruitment? Should there just be more blacks in the comercials?

I dont know what you mean by the dress and appearance of white cultural standards? There are so many white cultural dress styles, its not funny.

JD2780
05-13-2013, 01:38 PM
My generation is the one that created the civil rights movement. The goal was integration. That's what Martin Luther King was fighting for. Integration. Not diversity. If you achieve integration, everyone is treated equally and no one cares at all about anyone's skin color. The best way to know that we still haven't achieved integration is to realize that we still have Black History Month. (See my column in the February 19 Air Force Times, published February 11).

I'd like an America where we're color blind. Not an American where we celebrate people's race.

Your generation also fought against civil rights. It wasn't Like anybody born after 1929 was all for civil rights.

Rusty Jones
05-13-2013, 01:56 PM
I'm not sure about the stereotype about blacks not wanting to be around water; but what I can tell you is that if this was truly the cause of the Coast Guard Academy's issues, then the Naval Academy would be EQUALLY affected.


Why should there be a specific targeting of advertising specificly for blacks? What in the black culture does the coast guard need to target? There is a pretty significant overlap in white and black cultures and people seem to think they are mutally exclusive. Maybe Corny can fill us in if there is some part of the black culture that needs to be more targeted for recruitment? Should there just be more blacks in the comercials?

I had a debate with someone on facebook about a similar subject, but it dealt with the low numbers of black firefighters and how fire departments are trying to reach out and recruit more.

She was against this, but my reasoning in being for it was this: the reason behind the low numbers needs to be investigated. Do black people - or does black culture - lack a sense of "civic duty"? If so, why? And could this be manifested in other ways, than simply low numbers of firefighters?

What about their own neighborhoods and communities? If there's a fire there, the people who are coming to put that fire out are people who don't live there, and thus lack any emotional connection to that community. Makes sense to me that those who care about the community the most - those who live there - are the ones who are going to put their all into it.

Similar questions need to asked, as it applies to the Coast Guard Academy.

imported_WILDJOKER5
05-13-2013, 01:59 PM
I'm not sure about the stereotype about blacks not wanting to be around water; but what I can tell you is that if this was truly the cause of the Coast Guard Academy's issues, then the Naval Academy would be EQUALLY affected.True, but also the coast guard doesnt seem to get the same air time as the Navy. I totally didnt know about the CG till i was at MEPS shipping out to basic.


I had a debate with someone on facebook about a similar subject, but it dealt with the low numbers of black firefighters and how fire departments are trying to reach out and recruit more.

She was against this, but my reasoning in being for it was this: the reason behind the low numbers needs to be investigated. Do black people - or does black culture - lack a sense of "civic duty"? If so, why? And could this be manifested in other ways, than simply low numbers of firefighters?

What about their own neighborhoods and communities? If there's a fire there, the people who are coming to put that fire out are people who don't live there, and thus lack any emotional connection to that community. Makes sense to me that those who care about the community the most - those who live there - are the ones who are going to put their all into it.

Similar questions need to asked, as it applies to the Coast Guard Academy.

But what part of the black culture needs the targeting in advertising for such job? Who are you going to go out and recruit? Does LL Cool J or Kanye need to make a comercial? I find it sad to think that there needs to be some racial overtones to get blacks interested in things like this.

Pullinteeth
05-13-2013, 03:21 PM
True, but also the coast guard doesnt seem to get the same air time as the Navy. I totally didnt know about the CG till i was at MEPS shipping out to basic.


There is a reason for that...they generally don't have a problem with recruiting so they don't HAVE to spend the big bucks to get the advertizing space....

RobotChicken
05-14-2013, 06:44 AM
Not sure I understand how "boosting" minority numbers can be done without discriminating against otherwise equally (or more) qualified white people.
:ohwell Welcome to our world of reverse discrimination in todays 'PC' world, and they wonder WHY industries are moving overseas?? :clock

Measure Man
06-24-2013, 10:08 PM
Why should there be a specific targeting of advertising specificly for blacks? What in the black culture does the coast guard need to target? There is a pretty significant overlap in white and black cultures and people seem to think they are mutally exclusive.

Maybe, maybe not. I guess the easiest way to describe it is when the "Army of One" campaign came out...the marketing team briefed it to whatever General was in charge of it...and when they got done he said, "That doesn't make me want to join the Army"...and the marketer replied, "Sir, we're not trying to recruit you."

Basically...there are still differences in white and black sub-cultures...and different marketing may appeal to each differently.

I'm not saying that's the complete answer here...just that it is a valid question to ask, is whether or not your marketing targets minority groups as well as it does majority groups.


Maybe Corny can fill us in if there is some part of the black culture that needs to be more targeted for recruitment? Should there just be more blacks in the comercials?

I dont know what you mean by the dress and appearance of white cultural standards? There are so many white cultural dress styles, its not funny.

Again...probably the easiest way to describe this is the hullabboo over a Sikh wanting to wear a turban in uniform. There were rules against it, he needed a waiver. Why are there rules against it? A turban is conservative, professional, traditional...obviously the "rules" were not made by or for Sikhs.

Perhaps the differences in dress styles of whites and minorities in the US are more subtle...but, still, they are there. No, that doesn't mean all whites dress a certain way and all blacks a different way...again, look at norms and what defines "conservative dress and grooming."

Measure Man
06-24-2013, 10:44 PM
True, but also the coast guard doesnt seem to get the same air time as the Navy. I totally didnt know about the CG till i was at MEPS shipping out to basic.



But what part of the black culture needs the targeting in advertising for such job? Who are you going to go out and recruit? Does LL Cool J or Kanye need to make a comercial? I find it sad to think that there needs to be some racial overtones to get blacks interested in things like this.

Why do you think there needs to be racial overtones to get blacks interested?

Perhaps this is why blacks aren't being attracted to the coast guard...maybe the marketing team has the same myopic view of them that you do.

Perhaps, the marketing team is making the same mistake..."Hey, if we make a commercial that we like, and just throw a black guy in there, it will appeal to blacks just as well"

imported_WILDJOKER5
06-25-2013, 12:33 PM
Why do you think there needs to be racial overtones to get blacks interested?

Perhaps this is why blacks aren't being attracted to the coast guard...maybe the marketing team has the same myopic view of them that you do.

Perhaps, the marketing team is making the same mistake..."Hey, if we make a commercial that we like, and just throw a black guy in there, it will appeal to blacks just as well"

Dude, its not my view, it very well stated by blacks that they wont listen to whitey because he is "the man". What whitey suggests is not what blacks want. When whitey says abortions, saggining pants, drug use, gangs, gun violence, killing one another over shoes is bad, seems like there is a surgence in the black community for those things. Unless the racial masters like Sharpton gets on the air and tell his people what to do, nothing changes.

Measure Man
06-25-2013, 03:34 PM
Dude, its not my view, it very well stated by blacks that they wont listen to whitey because he is "the man". What whitey suggests is not what blacks want. When whitey says abortions, saggining pants, drug use, gangs, gun violence, killing one another over shoes is bad, seems like there is a surgence in the black community for those things. Unless the racial masters like Sharpton gets on the air and tell his people what to do, nothing changes.

Very well stated?? I guess I missed that memo.

Pullinteeth
06-25-2013, 04:26 PM
Dude, its not my view, it very well stated by blacks that they wont listen to whitey because he is "the man". What whitey suggests is not what blacks want. When whitey says abortions, saggining pants, drug use, gangs, gun violence, killing one another over shoes is bad, seems like there is a surgence in the black community for those things. Unless the racial masters like Sharpton gets on the air and tell his people what to do, nothing changes.

You can't be serious? I thought you were in the military? You are aware that there are black Airmen, Soldiers, Sailors, Marines, and Coasties that take orders from white supervisors every day right? If you really think that black people do drugs, join gangs, commit gun crimes, kill people over shoes or have abortions because some white person said those things are bad, I think you might need to get out more.

mrjenks
06-28-2013, 03:21 PM
Dude, its not my view, it very well stated by blacks that they wont listen to whitey because he is "the man". What whitey suggests is not what blacks want. When whitey says abortions, saggining pants, drug use, gangs, gun violence, killing one another over shoes is bad, seems like there is a surgence in the black community for those things. Unless the racial masters like Sharpton gets on the air and tell his people what to do, nothing changes.

That has to be most asinine statement I have heard in a long time. I have no idea where you got that what you said was has been very well stated....I am sure you don't know any black person that has said that. As far as the black community goes.....there are problems.....just like their are problems among other communities of color albeit same or different they may be. I think I know what type of person you were while you were in the military as well as who you are now. Sad statement.