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View Full Version : If I hear another song about Trayvon Martin, I'm going to explode!!!!



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WPNS
03-27-2012, 02:03 AM
Enough already, seriously! How many people are killed every day in this country? And they wonder why racism won't go away in this country...

combatrob
03-27-2012, 02:18 AM
Turn off the radio?

Rusty Jones
03-27-2012, 02:31 AM
Enough already, seriously! How many people are killed every day in this country? And they wonder why racism won't go away in this country...

It isn't the fact that he was killed. It's the fact that nothing is being done about the case.

By the way, I don't think that you're really fed up with the topic. You just happened to bring it on over to militarytimes.com when no one else here was even talking about it. Thanks to you, we now get to! :heh

Banned
03-27-2012, 03:37 AM
A 17 year old boy doing nothing wrong in HIS OWN neighborhood was hunted down and murdered in cold blood... and the authorities have done nothing about it, despite an overwhelming amount of evidence, 911 tapes, and eyewitness testimony. THAT is the problem, and THAT is why so many Americans of all racial backgrounds are pissed about it.

akruse
03-27-2012, 03:40 AM
It's amazing how you can have all the facts without knowing a damn thing.

Pavegunner72
03-27-2012, 03:42 AM
It's amazing how you can have all the facts without knowing a damn thing.

Well said.

Banned
03-27-2012, 03:42 AM
Who are you addressing?

akruse
03-27-2012, 03:44 AM
Who are you addressing?

You and the rest of the 75%. The only info you have is what the media has fed you.

CYBERFX1024
03-27-2012, 03:44 AM
A 17 year old boy doing nothing wrong in HIS OWN neighborhood was hunted down and murdered in cold blood... and the authorities have done nothing about it, despite an overwhelming amount of evidence, 911 tapes, and eyewitness testimony. THAT is the problem, and THAT is why so many Americans of all racial backgrounds are pissed about it.

That's the thing like always you only see the half of the news you want to see. He was in a gated community, he DID NOT live there. All the guy wanted to do was question him because they have been having break in's in the neighborhood. But that little wanna be thug jumped him and gave him a broken nose. So yes it is his right to defend himself and shoot the kid. End of story

akruse
03-27-2012, 03:45 AM
That's the thing like always you only see the half of the news you want to see. He was in a gated community, he DID NOT live there. All the guy wanted to do was question him because they have been having break in's in the neighborhood. But that little wanna be thug jumped him and gave him a broken nose. So yes it is his right to defend himself and shoot the kid. End of story

You don't have a clue either. Standard.

BISSBOSS
03-27-2012, 03:46 AM
Enough already, seriously! How many people are killed every day in this country? And they wonder why racism won't go away in this country...


I'm confused.

You admit that there is a racism problem in the country - But your solution to it is to either stop talking about it, or at the very least leave YOU alone about it...

I will agree with you that people are killed in the United States every day. With handguns. And some while unarmed. But RARELY are the perpetrators of such acts known to the police and NOT at the VERY least taken into custody or arrested. I am not saying that we have all of the facts or that this case is cut and dry - But it (on the surface) is not doing a very good job of passing the eyeball test.

-BB-

jamethon
03-27-2012, 03:46 AM
You and the rest of the 75%. The only info you have is what the media has fed you.

And who are your sources?

CYBERFX1024
03-27-2012, 03:47 AM
You don't have a clue either. Standard.

Then how about you tell us what really happened. Since I can't get all the news in Afghanistan. Enlighten me all knowing one

akruse
03-27-2012, 03:47 AM
And who are your sources?

Thats the point. I don't have any "sources". I have withheld my judgement on this case until all the investigations are over.

BISSBOSS
03-27-2012, 03:50 AM
You and the rest of the 75%. The only info you have is what the media has fed you.

Can you shed some light of this case for the rest of us?

Please - What information do you have access to that the media has not fed us (them... whatever)?

-BB-

Rusty Jones
03-27-2012, 03:51 AM
Judging by the members' reactions to many other posts on this forum; there are probably going to be far more people who agree with the OP than not. No compassion for their fellow human beings at all.

akruse
03-27-2012, 03:52 AM
Can you shed some light of this case for the rest of us?

Please - What information do you have access to that the media has not fed us (them... whatever)?

-BB-

See above your post.

Banned
03-27-2012, 03:56 AM
Judging by the members' reactions to many other posts on this forum; there are probably going to be far more people who agree with the OP than not. No compassion for their fellow human beings at all.

Remember when Geraldo Rivera at Fox News declared that Martin wearing his hoodie contributed to his death? Classic facepalm moment. I saw a guy wearing a hoodie, so I shot him. Oh okay buddy, as long as you had a good reason.

Rusty Jones
03-27-2012, 03:59 AM
Remember when Geraldo Rivera at Fox News declared that Martin wearing his hoodie contributed to his death? Classic facepalm moment. I saw a guy wearing a hoodie, so I shot him. Oh okay buddy, as long as you had a good reason.

Yeah, I've collected over a dozen pics of Geraldo wearing hoodies himself. Being a Latino in a hoodie, I guess he's "asking for it!"

akruse
03-27-2012, 04:02 AM
Remember when Geraldo Rivera at Fox News declared that Martin wearing his hoodie contributed to his death? Classic facepalm moment. I saw a guy wearing a hoodie, so I shot him. Oh okay buddy, as long as you had a good reason.

As I said earlier, I don't know what happened. Let me throw a question your way though. Say you are driving home down your street at night. You see someone walking down the street you don't recognize who just happens to be wearing a hoodie pulled down low over his/her face. After getting out of your car to question the guy, he attacks you. Are you justified in using deadly force to protect yourself?

jamethon
03-27-2012, 04:02 AM
Thats the point. I don't have any "sources". I have withheld my judgement on this case until all the investigations are over.

Media sources normally are good sources. I don't know where you get your information about the investigation otherwise...

akruse
03-27-2012, 04:03 AM
Media sources normally are good sources. I don't know where you get your information about the investigation otherwise...

Give me a break.

Rusty Jones
03-27-2012, 04:04 AM
As I said earlier, I don't know what happened. Let me throw a question your way though. Say you are driving home down your street at night. You see someone walking down the street you don't recognize who just happens to be wearing a hoodie pulled down low over his/her face. After getting out of your car to question the guy, he attacks you. Are you justified in using deadly force to protect yourself?

If I weigh 100 lbs more than he did, and he was armed with an ice tea and a bag of Skittles... that one is a no-brainer.

Banned
03-27-2012, 04:07 AM
As I said earlier, I don't know what happened. Let me throw a question your way though. Say you are driving home down your street at night. You see someone walking down the street you don't recognize who just happens to be wearing a hoodie pulled down low over his/her face. After getting out of your car to question the guy, he attacks you. Are you justified in using deadly force to protect yourself?

-I see at least a dozen black dudes wearing a hoodie every day on the way to and from school.... I live in a mostly black/latino neighborhood, I'm not scared of the "colored people".

-"After getting out of your car to question the guy"... lolwut. Why would I do that? Have you not heard of this "minding your own business" concept?

-If some crazy guy was stalking me, and then started waving a gun in my face... yeah, I'd probably hit him and try to wrestle the gun out of his hands too.

akruse
03-27-2012, 04:08 AM
If I weigh 100 lbs more than he did, and he was armed with an ice tea and a bag of Skittles... that one is a no-brainer.

So its not possible for someone 100 pounds less than you to fuck you up? You didn't answer my question though. He starts attacking you. At what point are you going to use deadly force? After he knocks you to the ground and your head bounces off the pavement?

Banned
03-27-2012, 04:08 AM
If I weigh 100 lbs more than he did, and he was armed with an ice tea and a bag of Skittles... that one is a no-brainer.

But... but... he was black... and he was wearing a hoodie! He was probably conspiring to rape some defenseless white womenn.

akruse
03-27-2012, 04:10 AM
-I see at least a dozen black dudes wearing a hoodie every day on the way to and from school.... I live in a mostly black/latino neighborhood, I'm not scared of the "colored people".

-"After getting out of your car to question the guy"... lolwut. Why would I do that? Have you not heard of this "minding your own business" concept?

-If some crazy guy was stalking me, and then started waving a gun in my face... yeah, I'd probably hit him and try to wrestle the gun out of his hands too.

Funny how you bring race into it. I never mentioned it. Could care less what their race is. My problem is I care what happens in my neighborhood I guess. I'm not looking to start a fight or confrontation, just a simple introduction to try and gauge their intentions. I never mentioned anything about even having a gun on me let alone waving it in the guy/gals face.

Rusty Jones
03-27-2012, 04:12 AM
So its not possible for someone 100 pounds less than you to fuck you up? You didn't answer my question though. He starts attacking you. At what point are you going to use deadly force? After he knocks you to the ground and your head bounces off the pavement?

You use the minimum amount of force to neutralize the threat. Trayvon was actually trying to get away when he got shot. If you're unarmed and you're attacking someone and they pull out a gun... aren't you going to give up, and get out of there? Once that happens, there's no longer a threat.

Banned
03-27-2012, 04:13 AM
Funny how you bring race into it. I never mentioned it. Could care less what their race is. My problem is I care what happens in my neighborhood I guess. I'm not looking to start a fight or confrontation, just a simple introduction to try and gauge their intentions. I never mentioned anything about even having a gun on me let alone waving it in the guy/gals face.

So how about the actual case then - which incidentally was all caught on tape?

Honestly, its sometimes pretty exaspurating to read some of these posts. Yeah, he was wearing a hoodie, he looked real suspicious, and he was probably on his way to collect his welfare check. We get it... now can pretend this is a sane society and detain the shooter?

BISSBOSS
03-27-2012, 04:15 AM
As I said earlier, I don't know what happened. Let me throw a question your way though. Say you are driving home down your street at night. You see someone walking down the street you don't recognize who just happens to be wearing a hoodie pulled down low over his/her face. After getting out of your car to question the guy, he attacks you. Are you justified in using deadly force to protect yourself?

But for the fact the YOU stopped to question said individual (Who - Last time I checked had EVERY right to be walking down said street) there would have been ZERO altercation.

You cannot go and pick a fight, start to loose and use deadly force then claim self defense.

Does the fact that the 911 operator instructed him NOT to follow the youth count for anything?

-BB-

akruse
03-27-2012, 04:15 AM
You use the minimum amount of force to neutralize the threat. Trayvon was actually trying to get away when he got shot. If you're unarmed and you're attacking someone and they pull out a gun... aren't you going to give up, and get out of there? Once that happens, there's no longer a threat.

In a perfect world yes, the guy would get up and run away and everything would be honkey dorey.

Banned
03-27-2012, 04:16 AM
I should also mention that the Neighborhood watch manual (which, as the "captain", this fucknut should've read) specifically states carrying weapons or starting physical confrontations with people is a big no-no.

akruse
03-27-2012, 04:19 AM
But for the fact the YOU stopped to question said individual (Who - Last time I checked had EVERY right to be walking down said street) there would have been ZERO altercation.

You cannot go and pick a fight, start to loose and use deadly force then claim self defense.

Does the fact that the 911 operator instructed him NOT to follow the youth count for anything?

-BB-

So I stop to ask a guy who has every right to be walking down the street a question amounts to picking a fight? I'm not detaining the guy, I'm not threatening him, I'm asking him a question. Same thing a cop does every day. I'm glad I live in the neighborhood that I do.

akruse
03-27-2012, 04:19 AM
But for the fact the YOU stopped to question said individual (Who - Last time I checked had EVERY right to be walking down said street) there would have been ZERO altercation.

You cannot go and pick a fight, start to loose and use deadly force then claim self defense.

Does the fact that the 911 operator instructed him NOT to follow the youth count for anything?

-BB-

So I stop to ask a guy who has every right to be walking down the street a question amounts to picking a fight? I'm not detaining the guy, I'm not threatening him, I'm asking him a question. Same thing a cop does every day. I'm glad I live in the neighborhood that I do.

jamethon
03-27-2012, 04:19 AM
I don't care if people take sides on this, everyone can have their opinions. Just don't say you are withholding judgement or waiting to "find out what really happened" if you have already taken the side of the shooter. That isn't called withholding judgment.. you already have.

BISSBOSS
03-27-2012, 04:20 AM
Funny how you bring race into it. I never mentioned it. Could care less what their race is. My problem is I care what happens in my neighborhood I guess. I'm not looking to start a fight or confrontation, just a simple introduction to try and gauge their intentions. I never mentioned anything about even having a gun on me let alone waving it in the guy/gals face.


Actually... You said nothing about simple introductions or the gauging of intentions. You said: "After getting out of your car to question the guy..."

If YOU were walking home from the store at night and a car pulled up and a stranger approached you to "question" you... Are you saying that you would comply?

-BB-

Banned
03-27-2012, 04:23 AM
So I stop to ask a guy who has every right to be walking down the street a question amounts to picking a fight? I'm not detaining the guy, I'm not threatening him, I'm asking him a question. Same thing a cop does every day. I'm glad I live in the neighborhood that I do.

Except you're not a cop....

In fact, maybe he'll think YOU look like a "suspicious person" trying to mug him... then he'd have every right to shoot you... right?

akruse
03-27-2012, 04:24 AM
I don't care if people take sides on this, everyone can have their opinions. Just don't say you are withholding judgement or waiting to "find out what really happened" if you have already taken the side of the shooter. That isn't called withholding judgment.. you already have.

I'm not taking his side. I'm taking the side of their is so much conflicting info out there that nobody knows what happened. If it was so cut and dry, the dude would be sitting in a county jail awaiting trial. Unfortunately race was brought into the equation and the media storm went ape shit just like it always does. But I guess I got it all wrong, each side has their case sealed up air tight.

Side A: Little innocent teenager was gunned down while trying to flee the black hating neighborhood watch "captain"
Side B: Neighborhood watch "captain" was just doing his job when the hoodie wearing hoodlum viciously attacked him leaving him no choice but to cap his ass.

BISSBOSS
03-27-2012, 04:25 AM
So I stop to ask a guy who has every right to be walking down the street a question amounts to picking a fight? I'm not detaining the guy, I'm not threatening him, I'm asking him a question. Same thing a cop does every day. I'm glad I live in the neighborhood that I do.


Again... You didn't say "Ask him a question". You said "Question him". The Cops are Law Enforcement Agents. And even they use better judgement than in your scenario.

You still haven't addressed the guy ignoring the 911 Operator when told not to follow... And I'm pretty sure that Neighborhood Watch members are probably PROHIBITED from carrying firearms while patrolling.

-BB-

Pavegunner72
03-27-2012, 04:28 AM
----------

akruse
03-27-2012, 04:32 AM
Holy shit guys. Obviously none of you have had simple interaction with another human being without it ending up physical or even getting into a verbal altercation. A simple "Hey hows it going" or "Can I help you with something" is simple enough in my case. You would have every right to tell me to fuck off and I would have every right to observe you due to your reaction. I would count on my neighbors to do the same.

Have a good one.

CYBERFX1024
03-27-2012, 04:37 AM
Obviously they don't live in neighborhoods where people look out for one another. Which is still the case in parts of America, like where I live. It don't matter if that kids was white, black, yellow, or people. If he is a unknown person in the neighborhood which is a GATED community then I would stop and ask him. It's as simple as that.
What most of the media is not stating is that the watch commander got a broken nose out of this, because he was ATTACKED. They had a number of break in's recently so it was only fair to ask a UNKNOWN individual where he is going. All he had to do was give a address.

Also if the whole thing was taped like Joe says. Then why haven't charges been taken out so far if he was in the wrong, and they have a video?

BISSBOSS
03-27-2012, 04:44 AM
So I stop to ask a guy who has every right to be walking down the street a question amounts to picking a fight? I'm not detaining the guy, I'm not threatening him, I'm asking him a question. Same thing a cop does every day. I'm glad I live in the neighborhood that I do.

on a more basic note - What gives you the right to bother someone minding their own business walking down the street?

-BB-

CYBERFX1024
03-27-2012, 04:52 AM
on a more basic note - What gives you the right to bother someone minding their own business walking down the street?

-BB-

Your a straight up idiot. If someone is walking in my neighborhood and I didn't know them. I would stop to ask where they are going, and what they are doing there. Two simple questions.

Airborne
03-27-2012, 05:00 AM
Your a straight up idiot. If someone is walking in my neighborhood and I didn't know them. I would stop to ask where they are going, and what they are doing there. Two simple questions.

Would you also ask to see their papers?

CYBERFX1024
03-27-2012, 05:10 AM
No, I am not asking any one for papers. But if they are in my neighborhood and I didn't know them. Then YES I would stop them, and ask them a couple questions.

1. Do you live around here?
2. Where are you going, address specifically?

Those are the 2 main questions police ask individuals when they are trying to figure something out. By asking those 2 questions you can determine alot by it.

1: If they live in the neighborhood.
2. Where they are going. If don't know where then there is a legtimate problem.

Why would they be walking in a neighborhood if they don't know where their going?

garhkal
03-27-2012, 05:14 AM
Funny how you bring race into it. I never mentioned it. Could care less what their race is. My problem is I care what happens in my neighborhood I guess. I'm not looking to start a fight or confrontation, just a simple introduction to try and gauge their intentions. I never mentioned anything about even having a gun on me let alone waving it in the guy/gals face.

Well said.. Hannity tonight layed into the left (panthers, Sharpton and company) for why there is no marching and general outcry for the 6 yr old killed over the St Paddy's weekend.. cause it was black on black.. No capacity to stir up the race hate there..


I don't care if people take sides on this, everyone can have their opinions. Just don't say you are withholding judgement or waiting to "find out what really happened" if you have already taken the side of the shooter. That isn't called withholding judgment.. you already have.



And i say the same to those who feel he is already guilty.. lock him up (Sharpton etc)..


Your a straight up idiot. If someone is walking in my neighborhood and I didn't know them. I would stop to ask where they are going, and what they are doing there. Two simple questions.


Plus since it was a gated community, i would be asking whom he was there to see.

CYBERFX1024
03-27-2012, 05:26 AM
Exactly if it is a GATED community. Then why would he be there in the first place, if he didn't live there? If he was going to go see a girl, hey thats fine. Most men young and old will agree with that. That's all the kid had to say, I am going to go see my gf, she lives at this address. Hell I would have drove the kid to the girl's house and been like good luck have a good time. Because most guys did something like that when we were younger.

I am still waiting for the WHOLE story. I bet it would be completely different than what the mainstream media says it is.
BTW wasn't he already suspended for having drugs in his possession?

CYBERFX1024
03-27-2012, 05:32 AM
Plus if the guy is a racist because he is a white hispanic. Then almost everybody is a racist in some sort or another.

Also why isn't there condemnation of the New Black Panther party for saying they will give $10,000 for "Zimmerman's capture"?

BRUWIN
03-27-2012, 05:45 AM
Also why isn't there condemnation of the New Black Panther party for saying they will give $10,000 for "Zimmerman's capture"?

I can't believe you asked that. You're racist.

BRUWIN
03-27-2012, 05:52 AM
[QUOTE=garhkal;518726]Well said.. Hannity tonight layed into the left (panthers, Sharpton and company) for why there is no marching and general outcry for the 6 yr old killed over the St Paddy's weekend.. [/Qoute]

Sharpton has been chiming in? You'd a thought he would have learned to shut the hell up until the facts are out after the Duke lacrosse team gang rape fiasco. Him and jackson both had serious egg on their face after the facts became known in that gaggle.

oregonbean
03-27-2012, 05:57 AM
Obviously they don't live in neighborhoods where people look out for one another. Which is still the case in parts of America, like where I live. It don't matter if that kids was white, black, yellow, or people. If he is a unknown person in the neighborhood which is a GATED community then I would stop and ask him. It's as simple as that.
What most of the media is not stating is that the watch commander got a broken nose out of this, because he was ATTACKED. They had a number of break in's recently so it was only fair to ask a UNKNOWN individual where he is going. All he had to do was give a address.

Also if the whole thing was taped like Joe says. Then why haven't charges been taken out so far if he was in the wrong, and they have a video?

If Zimmerman had stopped following Martin like the 911 dispatcher suggested, he doesn't end up with a broken nose and head wound. I have a hard time buying self-defense when the man's actions and disregard for the recommendation by the dispatcher to essentially stay put, are what lead to his "attack."

I don't know what happened, because I wasn't there, except for this--the transcript of the 911 call that Zimmerman made (released by the police department) indicates that he was told not to follow this kid by the 911 dispatcher, and he says "OK" then proceeds to follow the kid anyway. Zimmerman did say that Martin was looking at him and moving towards him (I don't know if Zimmerman is in or out of his car), but then he says Martin runs away. . . and Zimmerman follows him(after he was told not to).

Personally, if I'm walking down the street and I notice someone following me, or even someone in/out of a car that seems to be paying a little too much attention to me, and they continue to watch/follow me, I am going to be a bit worried. I'd probably say something so that person knew I was aware of them, but that's me(and I'm not a 17 year old kid). If said strange person keeps getting closer to me, even if I've picked up my pace, I'm going to be in fight or flight mode. I'm fleeing(walking fast or running), and this person is still following me? Now I'm thinking fight mode, especially if I have no way to get away.

Bottom line--if Zimmerman had done what he was asked to do by the 911 dispatcher and stayed in his car, or stopped following Martin, the kid probably walks to his father's house(which is in the same gated community), drinks his tea, eats some skittles, Zimmerman does not get "attacked" (did the kid have an escape route when this adult approached him--maybe he thought he was in danger and was defending himself), and Zimmerman doesn't shoot anyone that evening.

This is going to be one of those cases where it does not matter what the outcome is, there will be ugliness. I'm disturbed that this guy used a racial slur during his 911 call, but I'm also disturbed by the people who are trying to say that this is a 2012 version of the Emmit Till murder. I don't know anything about Sanford Florida and the quality of their police force, and like I said, I don't know the facts, other than a 17 year old is dead because an adult shot him in the chest after continuing to follow someone after the 911 dispatcher said not to.

What, if during the scuffle that supposedly took place, Zimmerman was the one who was shot? Would this even be in the media. Would Martin have been under more scrutiny, or could he have also invoked "stand your ground" and claimed self-defense? I don't know the answer to that question, but it's something to think about.

CYBERFX1024
03-27-2012, 06:01 AM
He used a racial slur? Where was it at in the tapes? Because they went throught those tapes front and back and never heard anything about a racial slur.

That is just more propaganda from the Martin, Sharpton, and Jackson crowd.

Tak
03-27-2012, 06:01 AM
Race+power=racism
(real world)

Guy is innocent, only full blooded whites can officially profile.

F%#$ the police, cop killer...that's all I got to say about that.
(NWA/Ice T/Forrest Gump)

CYBERFX1024
03-27-2012, 06:05 AM
[QUOTE=garhkal;518726]Well said.. Hannity tonight layed into the left (panthers, Sharpton and company) for why there is no marching and general outcry for the 6 yr old killed over the St Paddy's weekend.. [/Qoute]

Sharpton has been chiming in? You'd a thought he would have learned to shut the hell up until the facts are out after the Duke lacrosse team gang rape fiasco. Him and jackson both had serious egg on their face after the facts became known in that gaggle.

Yeah it was a really big case in North Carolina back when everything was going on. Does everybody know she is charged with murder now for killing an ex boyfriend. Yeah some victim

Tak
03-27-2012, 06:08 AM
Tawanna Brawley

Jena Six

Get my drift...

Tak
03-27-2012, 06:13 AM
I tell you what, I just had some hot cocoa with tiny marshmellows and dang nabbit
Was it good...I mean hot, sipping deliciousness...went great on a rainy night.

"Kill whitey!"
- black history class

oregonbean
03-27-2012, 06:14 AM
No, I am not asking any one for papers. But if they are in my neighborhood and I didn't know them. Then YES I would stop them, and ask them a couple questions.

1. Do you live around here?
2. Where are you going, address specifically?

Those are the 2 main questions police ask individuals when they are trying to figure something out. By asking those 2 questions you can determine alot by it.

1: If they live in the neighborhood.
2. Where they are going. If don't know where then there is a legtimate problem.

Why would they be walking in a neighborhood if they don't know where their going?

No one, in my entire life of walking in neighborhoods that I don't live in, has anyone ever asked me even one of these questions. There are plenty of reasons to be in a neighborhood you don't know where you are going. For example, you could be lost, or you might just be out for a walk with no specific destination in mind.

I'm glad I've never wandered through your neighborhood on a nice day. If a complete stranger asks me if I live nearby, and then asks me for the address I'm headed to, my first thought is probably going to be that you are a creep on the prowl, and I'm going to tell you to get lost. If you follow me after I tell you to leave me alone, I'm calling the police to report that someone suspicious is asking me for personal information and following me while I'm out for a walk.

If you are a police officer in uniform and you approach me with those questions, then of course I'm going to respond. Although, given the stories of weirdos running around in cop uniforms with fake badges and lights in their cars, I would comply but might ask to continue walking until we were in a visible and public spot, but I'd make that intention known.

Tak
03-27-2012, 06:16 AM
Profiling has its roots in air force history, started with pt program.
This needs to end. Time to stop racism and pt. Anything less would
Be uncivilized.

Down with profiles. Only full blooded 100% pt scores.

Tak
03-27-2012, 06:19 AM
All he had to do was yell Stranger Danger, even little kids know that.

"Fight the power"...and power = the white man
- public enemy

Tak
03-27-2012, 06:21 AM
Crayola used to have "flesh" colored crayons...and they were for coloring whitefolks.

"If at first you don't succeed, quit!"
- Tak

Tak
03-27-2012, 06:23 AM
Biggest unanswered question...what type of skittles and tea did he allegedly buy?

Tak
03-27-2012, 06:24 AM
I read today zimmerman saw guy reaching for thought to be gun...
Word against word and only one guy left talking...

Tak
03-27-2012, 06:25 AM
I read today zimmerman saw guy reaching for thought to be gun...
Word against word and only one guy left talking...

Tak
03-27-2012, 06:27 AM
My mission here is complete. Now time to go look at some Kim kardashian skimpy photos.

pjluckyman
03-27-2012, 06:36 AM
A 17 year old boy doing nothing wrong in HIS OWN neighborhood was hunted down and murdered in cold blood... and the authorities have done nothing about it, despite an overwhelming amount of evidence, 911 tapes, and eyewitness testimony. THAT is the problem, and THAT is why so many Americans of all racial backgrounds are pissed about it.

And you were the witness to said attack? I think that this is crap. I'm not defending this guy one bit but it is not yours to decide. It is a tragedy but unless you were there you don't know the story nor are you the local district attorney. This needs to be left alone and having the Race Baiters Al Sharpton, and Jessie Jackson lead the charge does nothing but use those that will me most effected by this tragedy to push and anti white agenda against someone who is HALF HISPANIC. The Black panthers posting a 10K dollar wanted dead or alive is ridiculous also. That is going to create more hate that doesn't need to be there.

oregonbean
03-27-2012, 07:36 AM
He used a racial slur? Where was it at in the tapes? Because they went throught those tapes front and back and never heard anything about a racial slur.

That is just more propaganda from the Martin, Sharpton, and Jackson crowd.

I'm not a fan of Sharpton, Jackson, or propaganda.

I had a nice reply, but lost it when I went to post. My original comment should have been "I'm disturbed that this guy may have used a racial slur." I'm in the process of moving, so didn't see anything about this case right away--no tv, newspapers, or online. When I did, the first thing I heard was that the Zimmerman 911 call was released, so I went online and listened to the audio. Most of the written transcripts that I initially saw seemed to edit out the latter half of the call.

At about 2:20 into Zimmerman's call, he says Martin is running, and mentions the back entrance to the neighborhood. It sounds like he gets out of a vehicle while he's saying this, and mutters something under his breath that, to me, sounded like a racial slur. The tape is apparently being analyzed by the FBI, so it's possible he said F'ing goons, or something other than an epithet that rhymes with goons, I don't know.

Like I said, I don't know what happened. I am disgusted by the sensationalism of the whole case, by the actions of people who have taken sides one way or the other without being privy to all the facts. I am most bothered by the possibility that this was a completely avoidable event. Zimmerman did the opposite of what the 911 dispatcher advised. If a suspicous person is running away from you, you are told not to follow that police are on the way, and you follow anyway and someone ends up dead(whether it was self-defense and regardless of who attacked who), you created that situation by failing to listen to the 911 dispatcher, and I am hard-pressed to accept an argument that it was all in self-defense.

Rusty Jones
03-27-2012, 11:33 AM
The kid was a little hood rat anyway. His mama already took out rights to his name and they are already marketing clothing to cash in on his death. after all, according to Comrade Obama he "Looks like he could have been my son...if I had one...(Sniff sniff)"

Screw all you PC a-holes, you are ruining this country.

Since you know so much about Trayvon, would you care to spill all of the information you have about him that led you to the conclusion that he's a "hood rat"?

Robert F. Dorr
03-27-2012, 11:43 AM
A 17 year old boy doing nothing wrong in HIS OWN neighborhood was hunted down and murdered in cold blood... and the authorities have done nothing about it, despite an overwhelming amount of evidence, 911 tapes, and eyewitness testimony. THAT is the problem, and THAT is why so many Americans of all racial backgrounds are pissed about it.

It's very possible the circumstances may be exactly as described by Joe Bonham above but there is an emerging body of information that suggests otherwise.

And am I really supposed to be outraged at the media (as his father is) for revealing that Trayvon Martin was dismissed from school because marijuana traces were found in his back pack? If I had a choice, anybody would be able to use marijuana any time they want, but that is not the law just now. So is this fact not relevant?

The Stand Your Ground Law seems to me to be a logical extension of the Second Amendment. So long as we have a government we need to be afraid of, and we do, we need the right to be armed. Why is no one defending the shooter?

Why did this child's parents give him a first name that identifies him by race? What is Al Sharpton's real reason for being involved?

Would anyone care what happened to this obviously troubled teenager if he had been white?

-- Robert F. Dorr (Bob)
Oakton, Virginia


And "shall not be infringed" means not by the Transportation Security Administration at the airport.

Rusty Jones
03-27-2012, 11:51 AM
And am I really supposed to be outraged at the media (as his father is) for revealing that Trayvon Martin was dismissed from school because marijuana traces were found in his back pack? If I had a choice, anybody would be able to use marijuana any time they want, but that is not the law just now. So is this fact not relevant?

It's not relevant for three reasons:

1. Did Zimmerman know about this? All he knew was that he was a black kid in a hoodie. Zimmerman claimed that Trayvon looked like he was high on drugs, but how many of you are able to tell from a distance - i.e., in your vehicle while watching someone walking down the street - that someone is high on pot? I can't.

2. Let's say, for example, that Trayvon was actually high on pot. Trayvon is already 100 pounds lighter than Zimmerman. Now if he's high on pot, that would put him at a far greater physical disadvantage than what he was already at. Taking on someone 100 pounds heavier than you, while you're high on pot? I don't think so.

3. Marijuana history does absolutely nothing to add to the justification of the shooting.

Rusty Jones
03-27-2012, 11:55 AM
Why did this child's parents give him a first name that identifies him by race?

Uh, seriously? Does this add to the justification as well? What about Latinos who name their children Carmen, Juan, etc? Should we hold that against them too? Should all Americans be required to give their children "white" names?

TJMAC77SP
03-27-2012, 12:05 PM
Yeah, I've collected over a dozen pics of Geraldo wearing hoodies himself. Being a Latino in a hoodie, I guess he's "asking for it!"

And I collected more than a dozen last night of known gang members all wearing hoodies......which I think was Geraldo's poorly stated point.....which I think more people 'get' than want to admit.

I don't have all the facts. New facts seem to be emerging every day, which is normal. For instance, it now appears that the parents have at least lied about why their son was serving a suspension. That has nothing to do with what happened to the boy but it certainly may cast doubts on all the other statements they have made about their son's behavior.


There are more possiblities in this situation than he was 'hunted down and murdered'. Everything being said about the shooter may be true and he is a racist who saw a young black man and assumed he was a criminal and when he wouldn't cooperate with him he shot him.

It could be that it happened exactly how the shooter stated it did. The 911 tapes do not refute that story and if he indeed has a broken nose that lends some credibility to the story.

At the very least I see this as a story which points out exactly why people who defend the arming of anyone and everyone just don't get it. Even if the shooter's story it completely true this young man should not have died. I don't believe their was a mortal threat present. Having said that, it doesn't make everything being said in defense of Martin, or more accurately everything being said in condemnation of Zimmerman true.

As for what actually happened I would dearly like to see the authorities able to finish a comprehensive investigation. I would guess (but don't know for sure) that FDLE has stepped in and is at least assisting. They are a competent organization. Let's see what comes out.

History does not seem to be teaching us anything here..........Tawana Brawley......Duke Lacrosse Team.

TJMAC77SP
03-27-2012, 12:08 PM
So how about the actual case then - which incidentally was all caught on tape?

Honestly, its sometimes pretty exaspurating to read some of these posts. Yeah, he was wearing a hoodie, he looked real suspicious, and he was probably on his way to collect his welfare check. We get it... now can pretend this is a sane society and detain the shooter?

What was 'caught on tape'? The only thing I have heard is the 911 tape which doesn't capture the confrontation at all.

Shrike
03-27-2012, 12:10 PM
What's this got to do with the USAF?

Robert F. Dorr
03-27-2012, 12:16 PM
Uh, seriously? Does this add to the justification as well? What about Latinos who name their children Carmen, Juan, etc? Should we hold that against them too? Should all Americans be required to give their children "white" names?

Giving a kid a name like Trayvon is a defiant, in-your-face gesture. It's exactly the kind of arrogant separatism we fought against in the 1960s when we thought the goal was something called integration. And because not all Americans are as unbiased and open-minded as I am, giving him the name puts him at a disadvantage for his entire life although this point is less relevant to people who are dead.

I can't answer your question about Latinos because I can't ask any of those who live around here. None of them speak English. Or any of my other languages.

Fact is, we don't know what happened here, the Stand Your Ground Law is fully justified, and Zimmerman shouldn't be arrested and charged just because 937,455 people vote for it on Facebook. Guns? Anyone in America should be permitted to carry a gun, openly or concealed, any time, anywhere, no exceptions.

-- Robert F. Dorr (Bob)
Oakton, Virginia



This line is added at the end to get your goat and for one other reason that I can't reveal.

Rusty Jones
03-27-2012, 12:25 PM
Giving a kid a name like Trayvon is a defiant, in-your-face gesture. It's exactly the kind of arrogant separatism we fought against in the 1960s when we thought the goal was something called integration.

Uh, WHAT? It's "defiant"? The names offend you? You're attributing motives to people for giving certain names to their children. What kind of non-sense is that?

Also, your last sentence indicates two things: that unity equals everyone doing everything the "white" way, and that the parents bear the responsibility for the murder because of the name. Did Zimmerman know that the guy's name was Trayvon before confronting him?


I can't answer your question about Latinos because I can't ask any of those who live around here. None of them speak English. Or any of my other languages.

Cop out.


Fact is, we don't know what happened here, the Stand Your Ground Law is fully justified, and Zimmerman shouldn't be arrested and charged just because 937,455 people vote for it on Facebook. Guns? Anyone in America should be permitted to carry a gun, openly or concealed, any time, anywhere, no exceptions.

He followed Trayvon when he was asked not to. That's not "standing your ground." That's being in persuit.

MACHINE666
03-27-2012, 12:27 PM
What's this got to do with the USAF?

I was thinking the same thing too. Shouldn't this thread be located under "In The News" or something?...

MACHINE666
03-27-2012, 12:27 PM
...and I can hardly wait to see the South Park episode dealing with this entire case (if they ever make one)....

SomeRandomGuy
03-27-2012, 01:33 PM
Some more information just came out today. It is interesting to note that Zimmerman had a bruise on the back of his head and also a broken nose eespecially when you hear this....

Zimmerman, 28, claimed he shot Martin in self-defense and has not been arrested. Because Martin was black and Zimmerman has a white father and Hispanic mother, the case has become a racial flashpoint that has civil rights leaders and others leading a series of protests in Sanford and around the country.

Meanwhile, the Orlando Sentinel reported that Zimmerman told police he lost Martin in the neighborhood he regularly patrolled and was walking back to his vehicle when the youth approached him from behind. The two exchanged words, Zimmerman said, and Martin then punched him in the nose, jumped on top of him and began banging his head on a sidewalk. Zimmerman said he began crying for help; Martin's family thinks it was their son who was crying out. Witness accounts differ and 911 tapes in which the voices are heard are not clear.

Rusty Jones
03-27-2012, 01:37 PM
Some more information just came out today. It is interesting to note that Zimmerman had a bruise on the back of his head and also a broken nose eespecially when you hear this....

Zimmerman, 28, claimed he shot Martin in self-defense and has not been arrested. Because Martin was black and Zimmerman has a white father and Hispanic mother, the case has become a racial flashpoint that has civil rights leaders and others leading a series of protests in Sanford and around the country.

Meanwhile, the Orlando Sentinel reported that Zimmerman told police he lost Martin in the neighborhood he regularly patrolled and was walking back to his vehicle when the youth approached him from behind. The two exchanged words, Zimmerman said, and Martin then punched him in the nose, jumped on top of him and began banging his head on a sidewalk. Zimmerman said he began crying for help; Martin's family thinks it was their son who was crying out. Witness accounts differ and 911 tapes in which the voices are heard are not clear.

You cut and pasted this from the Fox News website. Follow the link that was given to the Orlando Sentinel, and you'll see that they're far less definate and more doubtful than what Fox News is saying.

SomeRandomGuy
03-27-2012, 01:41 PM
You cut and pasted this from the Fox News website. Follow the link that was given to the Orlando Sentinel, and you'll see that they're far less definate and more doubtful than what Fox News is saying.

Actually I read the same story you are talking about in the Sentinel here is the link

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-26/news/os-trayvon-martin-zimmerman-account-20120326_1_miami-schools-punch-unarmed-black-teenager

I agree with the original poster and the majority of people who have commented. Race has nothing to do with what happened. We need to withhold judgement until all the facts come out. This is America we have a legal system in place to serve justice to people.

poindexter
03-27-2012, 01:41 PM
I am trying to understand how a hoodie and someone’s name have anything to do with this situation. The fact is a boy is dead and someone shot him and why is happened is not clear. If it was a white, brown or yellow kid really doesn’t matter. If it was my son that was walking to his father’s house and someone shot him, I would be raising all kind of hell to figure out why this happened. I wouldn’t call on Sharpton or Jessie Jackson because IMO they do not represent the black community, they turn a negative situation and make it into something that is about them. There are too many unanswered questions and everyone is speculating on what happened and no one knows.

But getting punched in the nose and getting shot are two different things. If I beat you up, I deserve to get my ass kicked but I don't deserve to get shot or to die.

SomeRandomGuy
03-27-2012, 01:51 PM
I am trying to understand how a hoodie and someone’s name have anything to do with this situation. The fact is a boy is dead and someone shot him and why is happened is not clear. If it was a white, brown or yellow kid really doesn’t matter. If it was my son that was walking to his father’s house and someone shot him, I would be raising all kind of hell to figure out why this happened. I wouldn’t call on Sharpton or Jessie Jackson because IMO they do not represent the black community, they turn a negative situation and make it into something that is about them. There are too many unanswered questions and everyone is speculating on what happened and no one knows.

But getting punched in the nose and getting shot are two different things. If I beat you up, I deserve to get my ass kicked but I don't deserve to get shot or to die.

If (and thats a huge IF) Zimmerman's account is really true and Martin was banging his head on the ground that changes things doesn't it? You are correct if you punch me in the nose you deserve to get your ass kicked. If you are on top of me banging my head into the sidewalk and I am armed with a gun I just may shoot you. The sad thing is all the police needed to do in this situation was arrest this guy in the beginning and this would be a non issue. If Zimmerman's account is really true he can prove that to 12 of his peers (or a judge). He absolutely should have been arrested in the beginning but in light of the (possible) facts that are coming out now he would have ended up being released anyways.

Rusty Jones
03-27-2012, 01:52 PM
Whether or not this is "racist," I'm going to hold my judgement on until later. A confirmation on whether or not he said "fucking coon" may shed light on that, but I'm not sure it's going to be a priority for investigators unless they decide to arrest him and they need to make a determination on whether or not it's a hate crime (and I doubt it's going to be, since even if he was "racist," race would have to be the motive and not an exascerbator).

Luvnlife
03-27-2012, 02:01 PM
I love it how so many people jumped to conclusions at first, I also like the pictures they use for the deceased, it looks like they were taken when he was 12 or 13. Why didnt they use the one where he's got that gold grill on?

Simply the media wants to stir racial emotions where there were none. Anytime Sharpton and Jackson show up you should know that the story is over, they completely destroy any credibility that was there. I sure cant wait till both of those racist idiots are 6 feet under. I wonder who will take up for them when theyre gone.

Anyone remember last week when the school children in France were killed? At first the media said it might be a right wing neo-nazi and then it turns out to be mohammed. How about when Congresswoman Giffords was shot in the head; oh it must have been Sarah Palin who indirectly inspired the gunman; then it turns out the gunman was a leftwing freak. Gotta love the media and their ability to jump to conclusions and point fingers.

poindexter
03-27-2012, 02:03 PM
If (and thats a huge IF) Zimmerman's account is really true and Martin was banging his head on the ground that changes things doesn't it? You are correct if you punch me in the nose you deserve to get your ass kicked. If you are on top of me banging my head into the sidewalk and I am armed with a gun I just may shoot you. The sad thing is all the police needed to do in this situation was arrest this guy in the beginning and this would be a non issue. If Zimmerman's account is really true he can prove that to 12 of his peers (or a judge). He absolutely should have been arrested in the beginning but in light of the (possible) facts that are coming out now he would have ended up being released anyways.

I agree with what you are saying.


Whether or not this is "racist," I'm going to hold my judgement on until later. A confirmation on whether or not he said "fucking coon" may shed light on that, but I'm not sure it's going to be a priority for investigators unless they decide to arrest him and they need to make a determination on whether or not it's a hate crime (and I doubt it's going to be, since even if he was "racist," race would have to be the motive and not an exascerbator).

If Zimmerman really called hime a Saying racial slurs just proves how dumb you really are.

SomeRandomGuy
03-27-2012, 02:09 PM
What I would like to know is the trajectory of the bullet. From what I have read Martin was shot in the chest. My question is was it from at an upward angle as if he we standing over someone? Was it from a downward angle as if Zimmerman was standing over him? These are the type of questions that need to be answered before I can take a side on this issue. Right now all we have is the what the media has told us. In light of how much the media has led me astray in the past I am withholding judgement until I get more facts or the accused is actually convicted or even charged.

Rusty Jones
03-27-2012, 02:11 PM
I love it how so many people jumped to conclusions at first, I also like the pictures they use for the deceased, it looks like they were taken when he was 12 or 13. Why didnt they use the one where he's got that gold grill on?

Would a picture with gold teeth convince the world that he deserved to die, or something?


Anyone remember last week when the school children in France were killed? At first the media said it might be a right wing neo-nazi and then it turns out to be mohammed.

How does calling him "Mohammed" make YOU look? And, why are you offended that Neo-Nazis were first suspected?


How about when Congresswoman Giffords was shot in the head; oh it must have been Sarah Palin who indirectly inspired the gunman; then it turns out the gunman was a leftwing freak. Gotta love the media and their ability to jump to conclusions and point fingers.

I'm sure that if a Republican lawmaker was shot, the gunman would be assumed to be liberal too. What's your point?

Luvnlife
03-27-2012, 02:13 PM
Would a picture with gold teeth convince the world that he deserved to die, or something?



How does calling him "Mohammed" make YOU look? And, why are you offended that Neo-Nazis were first suspected?



I'm sure that if a Republican lawmaker was shot, the gunman would be assumed to be liberal too. What's your point?

You just proved it buddy.

BTW, his name was Mohammed.....oy

Which is why you and the media should have all the facts before chiming in!

Shrike
03-27-2012, 02:23 PM
I was thinking the same thing too. Shouldn't this thread be located under "In The News" or something?...

People seem scared to venture out into the rest of the forum. I know it's big, but there's nothing to fear.

SomeRandomGuy
03-27-2012, 02:24 PM
What's this got to do with the USAF?

He obviously was not fit to fight. He clearly had the waste measurement but was lacking in his ability to run from his aggressor. If only he could have passed a USAF PT test he would still be alive today.

Shrike
03-27-2012, 02:27 PM
There are exactly two people who know what happened and one of them is dead. Everything else is mindless speculation with great emphasis on the "mindless".

Rusty Jones
03-27-2012, 02:28 PM
You just proved it buddy.

BTW, his name was Mohammed.....oy

Which is why you and the media should have all the facts before chiming in!

Wrong. His name actually being Mohammed is irrelevant. You used "Mohammed" as a term opposed to "Neo-Nazi." Maybe you should pay attention to the context in which you use certain terms.

Shrike
03-27-2012, 02:29 PM
He obviously was not fit to fight. He clearly had the waste measurement but was lacking in his ability to run from his aggressor. If only he could have passed a USAF PT test he would still be alive today.

No, no. We're warriors nowadays. If he was USAF-trained he would have killed Zimmermann with any one of a hundred lethal warrior techniques us Airmen Warriors are skilled in.

poindexter
03-27-2012, 02:31 PM
No, no. We're warriors nowadays. If he was USAF-trained he would have killed Zimmermann with any one of a hundred lethal warrior techniques us Airmen Warriors are skilled in.

Is this training on ADLS?

sandsjames
03-27-2012, 02:32 PM
People seem scared to venture out into the rest of the forum.
Why shouldn't this post be in the AF thread? The question of "integrity" has been raised and, as we all know, that's the biggy when it comes to AF core values.

I know it's big, but there's nothing to fear.

No comment!!

Rusty Jones
03-27-2012, 02:45 PM
You know, here's an issue that I'm having right now. Posts like these that attempt to humiliate those that feel that they've been wronged because of their race do absolutely nothing help race relations.

I can understand calling someone out who brings up race as a resort to win a battle in which they're actually the wrong party; however, this situation is a strong misconception. There are people who genuinely feel that they've been wronged because of their race, and instead of addressing it; you attempt to shut them down.

Wrong answer, buddy.

TVANSCOT
03-27-2012, 02:52 PM
Wait for the facts folks, none of you know enough to judge either way. The fact that you can be swayed by the media establishment is sad.

briefer
03-27-2012, 02:53 PM
Geez, why so serious? Nobody's crying for the crime wave in Chicago last week. Same as nobody's crying for the white kid that got doused in gasoline and set on fire by two older black kids 3 weeks ago. And everybody's just shuffling the French/Algerian Allahu Akbar Jew/Mil-killer under the rug.

Rusty Jones
03-27-2012, 02:56 PM
Geez, why so serious? Nobody's crying for the crime wave in Chicago last week. Same as nobody's crying for the white kid that got doused in gasoline and set on fire by two older black kids 3 weeks ago. And everybody's just shuffling the French/Algerian Allahu Akbar Jew/Mil-killer under the rug.

Are the people who committed these heinous acts alive and free, as Zimmerman is?

Luvnlife
03-27-2012, 03:02 PM
Are the people who committed these heinous acts alive and free, as Zimmerman is?

Sharpton is that you? :spy

SoonerE8
03-27-2012, 03:04 PM
Everyone needs to CALM down and let the justice system work. Zimmerman is innocent until PROVEDN guilty. This is no different than the Duke Lacrosse rape case. Everyone was out for blood--kids got kicked out of school, lacrosse team was completely shut down at Duke--them low and behold--ALL were innocent of the charges--so the media and everyone else (Sharpton, and the always opportunistic Jesse Jackson as well as the Politicians) needs to stop the race baiting, the truth will come out.

Luvnlife
03-27-2012, 03:04 PM
Wrong. His name actually being Mohammed is irrelevant. You used "Mohammed" as a term opposed to "Neo-Nazi." Maybe you should pay attention to the context in which you use certain terms.
Wrong. I said it was mohammed; and guess what, it was mohammed.

Please stop now, you're just making a spectacle of yourself and we can only laugh for so long before we start to feel pity for you.

Rusty Jones
03-27-2012, 03:12 PM
Wrong. I said it was mohammed; and guess what, it was mohammed.

Please stop now, you're just making a spectacle of yourself and we can only laugh for so long before we start to feel pity for you.

Now, you get into ad hominen and start warning people of how others will perceive them. Oh, and then you speak for other members of the board by speaking in the first person plural, in a lame attempt to make yourself appear more valid. Not going to work, buddy. Try again.

You used "Mohammed" as a term that is opposed to Neo-Nazi, not as a person. If a guy named James Smith did it, would you say "It turned out to be Jim"? I don't know who the hell "Jim" is, just like I don't know who the hell "Mohammed" is. Again, it's the context in which you used it. And if you can't see that, then it's selective ignorance on your part, and you are the true fool in need of pity.

Luvnlife
03-27-2012, 03:15 PM
Now, you get into ad hominen and start warning people of how others will perceive them. Oh, and then you speak for other members of the board by speaking in the first person plural, in a lame attempt to make yourself appear more valid. Not going to work, buddy. Try again.

You used "Mohammed" as a term that is opposed to Neo-Nazi, not as a person. If a guy named James Smith did it, would you say "It turned out to be Jim"? I don't know who the hell "Jim" is, just like I don't know who the hell "Mohammed" is. Again, it's the context in which you used it. And if you can't see that, then it's selective ignorance on your part, and you are the true fool in need of pity.


Yes if it had been bob I would have said bob. Next.

SomeRandomGuy
03-27-2012, 03:17 PM
Sharpton is that you? :spy

This was actually pretty funny!

Rusty Jones
03-27-2012, 03:22 PM
Yes if it had been bob I would have said bob. Next.

Yeah, bullshit.

Rusty Jones
03-27-2012, 03:43 PM
Everyone needs to CALM down and let the justice system work. Zimmerman is innocent until PROVEDN guilty. This is no different than the Duke Lacrosse rape case. Everyone was out for blood--kids got kicked out of school, lacrosse team was completely shut down at Duke--them low and behold--ALL were innocent of the charges--so the media and everyone else (Sharpton, and the always opportunistic Jesse Jackson as well as the Politicians) needs to stop the race baiting, the truth will come out.

I honestly don't think anyone here is "race baiting." In fact, all I see here is people getting defensive about "race baiting" before anything that can really be perceived as "race baiting" is even brought up.

For my part, I specifically stated that it needs to be determined first whether or not Zimmerman was engaged in wrongdoing before race can even be touched on in this case.

But here is what we do know right now: George Zimmerman was armed, and approached someone who was unarmed when he was asked not to. The unarmed person, Trayvon, was killed.

Those are the facts of the case, those are the facts that you will hear from both sides of the case, those are the facts that you will hear from any account given; they are indisputable.

Right now, we're waiting on everything in between to come out.

SomeRandomGuy
03-27-2012, 03:59 PM
[QUOTE=Rusty Jones;518845]I honestly don't think anyone here is "race baiting." In fact, all I see here is people getting defensive about "race baiting" before anything that can really be perceived as "race baiting" is even brought up.

For my part, I specifically stated that it needs to be determined first whether or not Zimmerman was engaged in wrongdoing before race can even be touched on in this case.

But here is what we do know right now: George Zimmerman was armed, and approached someone who was unarmed when he was asked not to. The unarmed person, Trayvon, was killed.

Those are the facts of the case, those are the facts that you will hear from both sides of the case, those are the facts that you will hear from any account given; they are indisputable.

How do you know this? You just said some things need to be determined then you follow it by saying these are the facts. Based on eye witness statements Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman beating him. Zimmerman then used his gun on Trayvon. Its funny how you only specifically pick the facts which support your case. Im not trying to say Zimmerman was in the right or anywhere close to it. I just think it is interesting that so many people want to rush to judgement. When the facts come out I might be willing to believe this was racially motivated but for know I see it for what it is. A kid was being followed by a stranger so he decided to run. Armed stranger followed him while calling police. At some point the two got into a verbal altercation. One of them broke the other guys nose. The other guy decided he was afraid for his life and decided to kill the guy who just broke his nose. Notice how I didnt identify either of there by there race in that description? That is what the media needs to do.

Banned
03-27-2012, 04:04 PM
It's very possible the circumstances may be exactly as described by Joe Bonham above but there is an emerging body of information that suggests otherwise.

And am I really supposed to be outraged at the media (as his father is) for revealing that Trayvon Martin was dismissed from school because marijuana traces were found in his back pack? If I had a choice, anybody would be able to use marijuana any time they want, but that is not the law just now. So is this fact not relevant?

The Stand Your Ground Law seems to me to be a logical extension of the Second Amendment. So long as we have a government we need to be afraid of, and we do, we need the right to be armed. Why is no one defending the shooter?

Why did this child's parents give him a first name that identifies him by race? What is Al Sharpton's real reason for being involved?

Would anyone care what happened to this obviously troubled teenager if he had been white?

-- Robert F. Dorr (Bob)
Oakton, Virginia


And "shall not be infringed" means not by the Transportation Security Administration at the airport.

Bro, you're being a bit ridiculous here.

-Martin's suspension is totally irrelevant, and no justification for what Zimmerman did. That's like saying a girl deserves to get raped because she missed her curfew six months earlier. Though you do accidentally raise an interesting point - suspending a kid for a 100 days because he had trace amounts of weed? Isn't that a little ridiculous? A 100 day suspension pretty much guarantees he's not going to graduate high school at time, assuming he graduates at all - so how exactly is this helping the student? In a logical world kids who break the rules would be forced to stay at school LONGER, not get kicked out on the street.

-The Second Amendment and Stand your Ground are of no help to Zimmerman - neither of these give you the right to pick fights with random people and then murder them when it gets out of hand.

-What the fuck does his first name have to do with ANYTHING? My parents gave me a first name that identifies me as Irish...

-You ask would anyone care if he was white.... come on, don't be naive. If the victim had been a white 17 year old, and the gunman a black adult male ... you know his ass would be rotting in jail with a 6 digit bail. And if he'd been caught standing over the corpse in the middle of the street, yeah, he might have been killed "resisting arrest".

Let me ask you this, since you think it is so incredibly important to defend Zimmerman's actions... what property was Zimmerman defending? Who's life was in danger? This moron started a fight after being told not to by the 911 dispatcher.

Rusty Jones
03-27-2012, 04:07 PM
Zimmerman then used his gun on Trayvon. Its funny how you only specifically pick the facts which support your case.

What is "my" case? The FACT is, he was asked not to follow Trayvon, and he still did it. All of this could have been avoided had he not blew off the operator. That's why the fist fight really isn't important as the other facts of the case, since the way fight went down hasn't even been determined yet.

crzycapt
03-27-2012, 04:08 PM
I read these forums daily and Joe every post you make is plain stupid. You are so hypocritical and righteousness in your posts like you could never be wrong. Get over yourself. I would say most of these posts are providing one side of the story (the side they agree with). Young kid in a gated community (he does not have the right to be walking there) gets questioned by a wanna be cop (who was released from the police academy) some type of struggle breaks out and the kid dies. Who cares about all the hoodie/race/questioning, a kid died. And said kid was unarmed, where I grew up if you took an a$$ beating one day you got up to fight again, not go get a gun. Adult should have used better judgment. If the kid was going to do a burglary, he prevented it good job, wait in your car for the cops to show.
Except you're not a cop....

In fact, maybe he'll think YOU look like a "suspicious person" trying to mug him... then he'd have every right to shoot you... right?

Luvnlife
03-27-2012, 04:19 PM
I think a persons past actions need to be out there for everyone to judge. If the deceased was a total dirtbag then I think everyone needs to know. If the shooter was a dirtbag then let it out there, although I havent seen one story yet about the shooter being one.

I have teenagers and not one has ever been caught with drugs, been suspended for graffiti or been found to be carrying a large amount of ladies jewelry. Raise your kids right and maybe they might grow up to be good citizens.

Rusty Jones
03-27-2012, 04:32 PM
I think a persons past actions need to be out there for everyone to judge. If the deceased was a total dirtbag then I think everyone needs to know. If the shooter was a dirtbag then let it out there, although I havent seen one story yet about the shooter being one.

I have teenagers and not one has ever been caught with drugs, been suspended for graffiti or been found to be carrying a large amount of ladies jewelry. Raise your kids right and maybe they might grow up to be good citizens.

Why is ANY of this relevant to him being shot and killed? Should I be able to go around shooting anyone that I deem a "total dirtbag"?

akruse
03-27-2012, 04:40 PM
I think a persons past actions need to be out there for everyone to judge. If the deceased was a total dirtbag then I think everyone needs to know. If the shooter was a dirtbag then let it out there, although I havent seen one story yet about the shooter being one.

I have teenagers and not one has ever been caught with drugs, been suspended for graffiti or been found to be carrying a large amount of ladies jewelry. Raise your kids right and maybe they might grow up to be good citizens.

Other than him attempting to attack some cops during a run in....

SomeRandomGuy
03-27-2012, 04:48 PM
Why is ANY of this relevant to him being shot and killed? Should I be able to go around shooting anyone that I deem a "total dirtbag"?

For the same reason that judges give harsher sentences to repeat offenders. Certain types of behavior can show a pattern which is likely to be repeated. All the original person was saying is that he would like to know as many details about each of the people involved as possible. He never said this kid deserved to be shot because he was suspsended from school for drugs. There are plenty of people out there talking about how Zimmerman was some wanna be cop and a racist. If we are going to bring up information about one person why not do the same for the victim?

AF Comm Guy
03-27-2012, 04:55 PM
I'm going to weigh in here because there is an issue that hasn't been addressed, or at least it has only been touched on. On the surface the 'stand your ground' law seems to be fairly reasonable. The relevant statute reads as follows:

"A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony"

Okay fine, there is an altercation between two individuals and one of them uses deadly force on the other. At this point the police would be called and an investigation would be started. In a normal size police department the investigation would be done by detectives, not patrol officers because the training is far different, not to mention that the detectives are considered a dispassionate party rather than first responders who will already have a somewhat skewed perspective. At some point, the person who used deadly force would be detained and questioned, possibly arrested and held while the investigation is being performed. Once the investigation is done it would go to the District Attorney's office where they would decide how best to proceed.

In the Treyvon Martin case it seems that the police simply took Zimmerman's word at face value and called it a day. First responders simply do not have that authority or latitude on how to enforce the law; it is not their call. To the outside observer, i.e. all of us on this forum, it really does appear that a proper investigation was never done and the reasoning behind it is because of the stand your ground law. I find this just a little chilling because a law that is meant for self defense seems to be easily perverted into one which can be used for vigilantism or straight up murder. There have been several cases like this across the country and in nearly all situations the person who was shot or shot at was unarmed. While a person needs to be considered innocent until proven guilty it seems that nobody is even bothering to determine IF the shooter in this case is guilty. There needs to be some reasonable burden of proof on the person doing the defending.

What I'm getting at is that the cops really seemed to bungle the entire thing and the DA's office didn't even weigh in until there was a public outcry. If Zimmerman is innocent and really was defending himself then so be it but at least let the wheels of justice turn and make a determination. So far they seem to be rusted and standing still.

Rusty Jones
03-27-2012, 04:58 PM
For the same reason that judges give harsher sentences to repeat offenders. Certain types of behavior can show a pattern which is likely to be repeated. All the original person was saying is that he would like to know as many details about each of the people involved as possible. He never said this kid deserved to be shot because he was suspsended from school for drugs. There are plenty of people out there talking about how Zimmerman was some wanna be cop and a racist. If we are going to bring up information about one person why not do the same for the victim?

The only things about Travyon that would be relevant would be things that meet two criteria: 1) they are observable by a complete stranger, and 2) they are a justified cause for confronting him.

So he got suspending for having drug parapharnalia. This doesn't meet either of the two criteria.

sandsjames
03-27-2012, 05:04 PM
Why is ANY of this relevant to him being shot and killed? Should I be able to go around shooting anyone that I deem a "total dirtbag"?

No, you shouldn't, but what if Zimmerman had previous race relation run-ins? Should that also not be applicable?

Rusty Jones
03-27-2012, 05:09 PM
No, you shouldn't, but what if Zimmerman had previous race relation run-ins? Should that also not be applicable?

Not unless it has been determined that there has been wrongdoing on the part of Zimmerman first.

sandsjames
03-27-2012, 05:14 PM
Not unless it has been determined that there has been wrongdoing on the part of Zimmerman first.

Agreed. Now the other question, do you think the media, Sharpton, Jackson, etc would plaster it all over the news if they found a video or a witness from 10 years ago that would show Zimmerman as possibly be racist? Absolutely they would. They shouldn't, but they would. So of course the side defending him is going to try to make Martin look as bad as possible. Unfornutely, it's the game that's played these days. And it's the game that keeps racial tensions much higher than they should be in this day and age.

TJMAC77SP
03-27-2012, 05:38 PM
You know, here's an issue that I'm having right now. Posts like these that attempt to humiliate those that feel that they've been wronged because of their race do absolutely nothing help race relations.

I can understand calling someone out who brings up race as a resort to win a battle in which they're actually the wrong party; however, this situation is a strong misconception. There are people who genuinely feel that they've been wronged because of their race, and instead of addressing it; you attempt to shut them down.

Wrong answer, buddy.

But, if say for example a guy shoots another guy, say a young person and before anything factual is released by a competent authority, the simple facts of the race of the people involved are released and the young person is black and the other say has a name which is not apparently black or Hispanic so in initial reports is said to be white. Having said that, several prominent people both black and non-black immediately come out publically and state emphatically that it was a hate crime and that the shooter is a racist murderer, knowing only the races (although one reported inaccurately) of the individuals involved. Would that for example be a situation where it was justified in calling bullshit to the race card?

There is a lot about this case which smells badly. It smells badly all around. Unfortunately, much like in the Duke case the public has been poisoned by the tiny and possibly irrelevant ‘facts’ which they have been privy to. So, maybe it turns out that everything being said about Zimmerman proves true. At this point it is even odds that everything being said (negatively) proves inaccurate. How many of those ‘famous’ people do you think will line up to apologize. If the Duke case is any indication the answer is zero. Please excuse people who are just plain sick and tired of race being dragged into every case involving parties of differing races. Sometimes it is just people acting stupidly. Not because or despite their race just acting stupid like a human being.

TJMAC77SP
03-27-2012, 05:42 PM
Bro, you're being a bit ridiculous here.

-Martin's suspension is totally irrelevant, and no justification for what Zimmerman did. That's like saying a girl deserves to get raped because she missed her curfew six months earlier. Though you do accidentally raise an interesting point - suspending a kid for a 100 days because he had trace amounts of weed? Isn't that a little ridiculous? A 100 day suspension pretty much guarantees he's not going to graduate high school at time, assuming he graduates at all - so how exactly is this helping the student? In a logical world kids who break the rules would be forced to stay at school LONGER, not get kicked out on the street.

-The Second Amendment and Stand your Ground are of no help to Zimmerman - neither of these give you the right to pick fights with random people and then murder them when it gets out of hand.

-What the fuck does his first name have to do with ANYTHING? My parents gave me a first name that identifies me as Irish...

-You ask would anyone care if he was white.... come on, don't be naive. If the victim had been a white 17 year old, and the gunman a black adult male ... you know his ass would be rotting in jail with a 6 digit bail. And if he'd been caught standing over the corpse in the middle of the street, yeah, he might have been killed "resisting arrest".

Let me ask you this, since you think it is so incredibly important to defend Zimmerman's actions... what property was Zimmerman defending? Who's life was in danger? This moron started a fight after being told not to by the 911 dispatcher.

The suspension speaks only to the credibility of Martin's parents if indeed he was not suspended for 'tardiness'.

The Stand Your Ground law allows for personal defense so that would be the 'property' he was defending. Perhaps this will cause the law to be amended or repealed but it is what it is.

Tak
03-27-2012, 05:48 PM
Family looks to trademark ‘I am Trayvon’

TJMAC77SP
03-27-2012, 05:49 PM
No, you shouldn't, but what if Zimmerman had previous race relation run-ins? Should that also not be applicable?

Probably if race is an issue uncovered during an actual investigation and not because some talking head parasite shouted it to be true within minutes of being told of the incident.

Edit: And as Rusty posted if Zimmerman is found to have been at wrong in the case.

poindexter
03-27-2012, 05:52 PM
Family looks to trademark ‘I am Trayvon’

Your source?

Tak
03-27-2012, 05:56 PM
Your source?

front page now of yahoo dot com

TJMAC77SP
03-27-2012, 05:59 PM
Your source?

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/trayvon-martin-mother-moves-trademark-phrases-rallying-cries-wake-son-death-article-1.1051304

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2120841/Trayvon-Martin-case-Mother-trademarks-sons-name.html

http://now.msn.com/now/0326-trayvon-martin-trademark.aspx

SomeRandomGuy
03-27-2012, 05:59 PM
Earlier someone implied that I only get my news from foxnews. Here is an article from CNN on this. One paragraph specifically speaks to why he was not arrested

On Monday, more questions arose in the already murky case, with Sanford police confirming the details of an Orlando Sentinel report, which cited unnamed authorities saying Zimmerman told them Martin punched him in the nose after the two exchanged words.

Police said Monday the Sentinel account is "consistent with the information provided to the State Attorney's office by the police department." The newspaper reported that Zimmerman said Martin then repeatedly punched him and slammed his head into the sidewalk.

Previously released tapes of 911 calls included neighbors saying they had heard screams -- though it wasn't clear whether they came from Zimmerman or Martin.

Two women who live nearby have said they heard "a whining, someone in distress, and then the gunshot."

Mary Cutcher and her roommate, Selma Mora Lamilla, told CNN Monday that they ran outside. "Within seconds," they were about 10 feet away from Martin's body, Lamilla said.

"(Zimmerman) was standing over the body, basically straddling the body with his hand on Trayvon's back," said Cutcher, adding that they called three times to him before he finally asked them to call police. "It didn't seem to me that he was trying to help him in any way."

When police arrived, Zimmerman's "back appeared to be wet and was covered in grass (and he) was also bleeding, from the nose and back of his head," according to a police report.

The parts I highlighted in bold are the reason he was not arrested. I still do not agree that he was justified in shotting this kid but at the same time its not like he just walk up and shot this kid for no reason as some in the media would like you to believe.

poindexter
03-27-2012, 06:13 PM
Okay, after reading this I am on the fence when it comes to the parents. I understand that the use of their sons name is getting out of control but trade marking? Well…. I would assume that there would be bigger priorities… what bothers me is the fact that someone would wear a t-shirt like that describing Zimmerman… I don’t support nor defend him or his alleged actions but this is just going too far. But the ignorance of many is now rearing its ugly head….

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/trayvon-martin-family-looks-trademark-am-trayvon-justice-142131528.html

Monkey
03-27-2012, 06:26 PM
There is a crazy amount of conjecture on this thread.

I like our legal system and believe in "innocent until proven guilty" so I would like to see this guy proven guilty by a jury of his peers before I pass judgement. Nonetheless, after reading all of these posts I have a few questions. Warning: some of you may chose to interpret them as me showing bias, but you'd be wrong.

#1 - How many times does somebody have to beat your head against concrete before you might start fearing for your life and consider using deadly force to protect yourself?

#2 - Maybe I missed this, but in which account of the incident did Mr. Zimmerman not comply with the 911 operator? From whay I have gathered, nobody has given an eyewitness account of him chasing Mr. Martin. The only printed account I've seen so far is that after the call, it was Mr. Martin who approached Mr. Zimmerman (not the other way around)

#3 - Why did the police not take Mr. Zimmerman in for questioning? I don't care how clear-cut the police thought the case was. If somebody gets shot and dies, I would expect that the police should at a minimum remove the admitted shooter from the scene and figure out exactly what happened. Killing a man is serious and it seems like this was treated a little too casually by the police.

IH8EngMTX
03-27-2012, 06:28 PM
I don't give a shit what race, gender, etc. you are. If you are attacking me and I feel my life is in danger, either my knife is going into you or an entire magazine of either .40 or .45 (whichever gun I'm carrying at the time) is getting emptied into your body.

In AF news, I'm washing my flight suits now. (puts on flame suit and waits for RPA op's don't need them comments):lol

akruse
03-27-2012, 06:40 PM
There is a crazy amount of conjecture on this thread.

I like our legal system and believe in "innocent until proven guilty" so I would like to see this guy proven guilty by a jury of his peers before I pass judgement. Nonetheless, after reading all of these posts I have a few questions. Warning: some of you may chose to interpret them as me showing bias, but you'd be wrong.

#1 - How many times does somebody have to beat your head against concrete before you might start fearing for your life and consider using deadly force to protect yourself?

#2 - Maybe I missed this, but in which account of the incident did Mr. Zimmerman not comply with the 911 operator? From whay I have gathered, nobody has given an eyewitness account of him chasing Mr. Martin. The only printed account I've seen so far is that after the call, it was Mr. Martin who approached Mr. Zimmerman (not the other way around)

#3 - Why did the police not take Mr. Zimmerman in for questioning? I don't care how clear-cut the police thought the case was. If somebody gets shot and dies, I would expect that the police should at a minimum remove the admitted shooter from the scene and figure out exactly what happened. Killing a man is serious and it seems like this was treated a little too casually by the police.

In reference to #1, it's obvious if the guy outweighs you by "100 pounds" then you have nothing to worry about. (sarcasm intended)

I agree whole heartedly with #3. The police fucked this one up. Even if it comes out with clear convincing evidence that Zimmerman followed the intent of the law, he's still fucked.

SomeRandomGuy
03-27-2012, 06:44 PM
I think this comic actually sums it up pretty well

http://imgur.com/gallery/0ShZ0

Rusty Jones
03-27-2012, 06:52 PM
I don't give a shit what race, gender, etc. you are. If you are attacking me and I feel my life is in danger, either my knife is going into you or an entire magazine of either .40 or .45 (whichever gun I'm carrying at the time) is getting emptied into your body.

In AF news, I'm washing my flight suits now. (puts on flame suit and waits for RPA op's don't need them comments):lol

With all that tough talk, I'm sure that someone who weighs 100 lbs less than you and is high on downers* wouldn't be able to kick your ass, would they?

I mean if you can't kick his ass, then you should at least be able to muscle your way out of the situation so that you wouldn't have to use deadly force, right?

*This is based on Zimmerman's claim that Travyon appeared to be high on drugs, and combined with the reports of Travyon being suspended for having a bag with traces of marijuana.

SomeRandomGuy
03-27-2012, 07:00 PM
With all that tough talk, I'm sure that someone who weighs 100 lbs less than you and is high on downers* wouldn't be able to kick your ass, would they?

I mean if you can't kick his ass, then you should at least be able to muscle your way out of the situation so that you wouldn't have to use deadly force, right?

*This is based on Zimmerman's claim that Travyon appeared to be high on drugs, and combined with the reports of Travyon being suspended for having a bag with traces of marijuana.

Manny Pacquiao was 145 pounds when he fought Miguel Cotto. He has fought other bouts as light as 113 pounds. Even if I weighed 250 pounds I wouldnt be lining up to fight him. Im curious why you equate weight with fighting ability. As you said Zimmerman was 100 pounds heavier but he also was fightingg with a broken nose (I wonder how that happened) and most likely trying to protect his weapon from being taken from him. That would change things in a fight.

Rusty Jones
03-27-2012, 07:10 PM
Manny Pacquiao was 145 pounds when he fought Miguel Cotto. He has fought other bouts as light as 113 pounds. Even if I weighed 250 pounds I wouldnt be lining up to fight him. Im curious why you equate weight with fighting ability. As you said Zimmerman was 100 pounds heavier but he also was fighting with a broken nose (I wonder how that happened) and most likely trying to protect his weapon from being taken from him. That would change things in a fight.

Now you're taking this to a different level by mentioning professional fighters. People who actually fight and train to fight for a living. Travyon Martin was a high school student. If Travyon Martin even had half of the fighting skills that Pacquiao has, he'd likely have his hands registered as weapons - and we'd all know about that by now.

Also, if I weighed 250, I wouldn't want to fight Pacquiao either. In a straight toe-to-toe fight, I'm toast. But I bet that if he came at me, I'd be able to muscle my way out of whatever he's trying to do. And him being high on downers would make it that much more easier for me.

SomeRandomGuy
03-27-2012, 07:17 PM
Now you're taking this to a different level by mentioning professional fighters. People who actually fight and train to fight for a living. Travyon Martin was a high school student. If Travyon Martin even had half of the fighting skills that Pacquiao has, he'd likely have his hands registered as weapons - and we'd all know about that by now.

Also, if I weighed 250, I wouldn't want to fight Pacquiao either. In a straight toe-to-toe fight, I'm toast. But I bet that if he came at me, I'd be able to muscle my way out of whatever he's trying to do. And him being high on downers would make it that much more easier for me.

What if he suckered punched you and broke your nose then jumped on top of you and started pounding your head against the concrete? I'm not saying that is what happened here im just laughing at the fact that you think it is impossible for a 17 year old kid to win a fight against someone 100 pounds heavier. I am nothing close to a professional fighter but I have definitly won some fights against people who weighed more than me. The reason I brought up a professional fighter was that I was making a ridiculous point to show you how ridiculous your point was.

If someone breaks my nose and is pounding my head into the concrete I am not waiting until I become the next Bryan Stowe before I defend myself.

akruse
03-27-2012, 07:20 PM
Now you're taking this to a different level by mentioning professional fighters. People who actually fight and train to fight for a living. Travyon Martin was a high school student. If Travyon Martin even had half of the fighting skills that Pacquiao has, he'd likely have his hands registered as weapons - and we'd all know about that by now.

Also, if I weighed 250, I wouldn't want to fight Pacquiao either. In a straight toe-to-toe fight, I'm toast. But I bet that if he came at me, I'd be able to muscle my way out of whatever he's trying to do. And him being high on downers would make it that much more easier for me.

Waste of time. Have a good day.

Rusty Jones
03-27-2012, 07:23 PM
What if he suckered punched you and broke your nose then jumped on top of you and started pounding your head against the concrete? I'm not saying that is what happened here im just laughing at the fact that you think it is impossible for a 17 year old kid to win a fight against someone 100 pounds heavier. I am nothing close to a professional fighter but I have definitly won some fights against people who weighed more than me. The reason I brought up a professional fighter was that I was making a ridiculous point to show you how ridiculous your point was.

If someone breaks my nose and is pounding my head into the concrete I am not waiting until I become the next Bryan Stowe before I defend myself.

Do you think that the average 140 lb kid can punch with enough force to break a nose with one punch? There are super heavy weight fighters getting punched in the face by other super heavy weights, going through whole 12-round fights their whole careers that have never had their nose broken.

Not saying that your scenario is impossible, but to say that it's highly improbably is an understatement.

imported_MSGDay
03-27-2012, 07:25 PM
Let's put this into perspective please.

1. Zimmerman was walking to his vehicle after having bought some items in a story.

2. He is approached by a young man who confronts him.

3. When he doesn't agree with or go along with the young man's "demands"? he is punched in the nose, shoved to the ground and the young man is above him, beating upon him.

4. Fearing for his life he shots the young man. {I woulda shot him in the nuts!}

5. The young man has been suspended from school and the bag he carried has traces of Weed.

6. And the police are accused of not doing anything when they have witnesses to the event?

C'mon. Gimme a break! :smash

[If you're interesting in California history, check out my blog, A Soldier's Tales @ http://lvcabbie.blogspot.com ]

TJMAC77SP
03-27-2012, 07:26 PM
Do you think that the average 140 lb kid can punch with enough force to break a nose with one punch? There are super heavy weight fighters getting punched in the face by other super heavy weights, going through whole 12-round fights their whole careers that have never had their nose broken.

Not saying that your scenario is impossible, but to say that it's highly improbably is an understatement.

The nose is extremely easy to break. It is cartridge and not nearly as strong as bone.

Banned
03-27-2012, 07:29 PM
The suspension speaks only to the credibility of Martin's parents if indeed he was not suspended for 'tardiness'.

The tardiness, from what I've read, is related to an earlier suspension, not the suspension involving the weed.

And regardless - still irrelevant to the shooting. Should students who get D's in English also be shot dead?



The Stand Your Ground law allows for personal defense so that would be the 'property' he was defending. Perhaps this will cause the law to be amended or repealed but it is what it is.

Except he initiated the confrontation, even after being instructed not to by the 911 operator.

I'm all about gun rights, I happen to own one myself. But this is a beef I have with many gun owners. They think that any kind of physical conflict automatically justifies deadly force. If Zimmerman was so scared of a fist fight (especially one that he could have avoided easily) that you're going to gun down an unarmed 17 year old kid... sorry... you're not a "badass", you're a cowardly little bitch.

garhkal
03-27-2012, 07:38 PM
I can't believe you asked that. You're racist.

It is seeming that the powers that be seem to push that..



Sharpton has been chiming in? You'd a thought he would have learned to shut the hell up until the facts are out after the Duke lacrosse team gang rape fiasco. Him and jackson both had serious egg on their face after the facts became known in that gaggle.

You would have thought that.. but obviously they care not.


If Zimmerman had stopped following Martin like the 911 dispatcher suggested, he doesn't end up with a broken nose and head wound. I have a hard time buying self-defense when the man's actions and disregard for the recommendation by the dispatcher to essentially stay put, are what lead to his "attack."
...snip...

Bottom line--if Zimmerman had done what he was asked to do by the 911 dispatcher and stayed in his car, or stopped following Martin, the kid probably walks to his father's house(which is in the same gated community), drinks his tea, eats some skittles, Zimmerman does not get "attacked" (did the kid have an escape route when this adult approached him--maybe he thought he was in danger and was defending himself), and Zimmerman doesn't shoot anyone that evening.

Well said.. But i do not see what laws were broken by that.. Though if i was a jury member in his case, i would most definitely take that into consideration in whether to say guilty or innocent for any other charges brought.



This is going to be one of those cases where it does not matter what the outcome is, there will be ugliness.

Especially since the NBP seem to be so hot and heavy to "get the guy"...



What, if during the scuffle that supposedly took place, Zimmerman was the one who was shot? Would this even be in the media. Would Martin have been under more scrutiny, or could he have also invoked "stand your ground" and claimed self-defense? I don't know the answer to that question, but it's something to think about.

Doubt it would have even made the CNN Ticker..



The Stand Your Ground Law seems to me to be a logical extension of the Second Amendment. So long as we have a government we need to be afraid of, and we do, we need the right to be armed. Why is no one defending the shooter?

Political expedience.. Racial bias??



Would anyone care what happened to this obviously troubled teenager if he had been white?


Doubt it. Heck i doubt we would have even heard about it.




Yeah, I've collected over a dozen pics of Geraldo wearing hoodies himself. Being a Latino in a hoodie, I guess he's "asking for it!"

And I collected more than a dozen last night of known gang members all wearing hoodies......which I think was Geraldo's poorly stated point.....which I think more people 'get' than want to admit.
Team.

Exactly.. To me when i see hoodies, it is usually one of 2 groups.
1) street thugs/gangs
2) rappers.
(though poker tournament players are a close 3rd)


Some more information just came out today. It is interesting to note that Zimmerman had a bruise on the back of his head and also a broken nose eespecially when you hear this....

Zimmerman, 28, claimed he shot Martin in self-defense and has not been arrested. Because Martin was black and Zimmerman has a white father and Hispanic mother, the case has become a racial flashpoint that has civil rights leaders and others leading a series of protests in Sanford and around the country.

Meanwhile, the Orlando Sentinel reported that Zimmerman told police he lost Martin in the neighborhood he regularly patrolled and was walking back to his vehicle when the youth approached him from behind. The two exchanged words, Zimmerman said, and Martin then punched him in the nose, jumped on top of him and began banging his head on a sidewalk. Zimmerman said he began crying for help; Martin's family thinks it was their son who was crying out. Witness accounts differ and 911 tapes in which the voices are heard are not clear.

I have heard that several times (though mostly on Fox news).. and would love to get a voice comparison between Zimmerman and Martin, to see whether any of the 'witnesses' could tell which it was..


I wouldn’t call on Sharpton or Jessie Jackson because IMO they do not represent the black community, they turn a negative situation and make it into something that is about them..

Speaking of that.. Last night while watching MSNBC, they had 2 black commentators on arguing about the situation, one a talk radio commentator (supposedly) and one a rep for a civil rights group. What got me, is that the CRG person said the "Other commentator's" opinions did not matter as much as Sharptons do..


You know, here's an issue that I'm having right now. Posts like these that attempt to humiliate those that feel that they've been wronged because of their race do absolutely nothing help race relations.

I can understand calling someone out who brings up race as a resort to win a battle in which they're actually the wrong party; however, this situation is a strong misconception. There are people who genuinely feel that they've been wronged because of their race, and instead of addressing it; you attempt to shut them down.

Wrong answer, buddy.

To me, part of it is cause for every time race HAS been a reason, there are 2 where it was not.. Also cause when race is an issue (But the other way around), the media seems to always overlook it.


Are the people who committed these heinous acts alive and free, as Zimmerman is?

I don't know.. This is the first i am even hearing of the kid being doused in gas by 3 blacks, as well as the 3rd time about the Chicago crime spree. And last i heard on the Chicago situ, was that 2 suspects were in custody.. that was it.


Everyone needs to CALM down and let the justice system work. Zimmerman is innocent until PROVEDN guilty. This is no different than the Duke Lacrosse rape case. Everyone was out for blood--kids got kicked out of school, lacrosse team was completely shut down at Duke--them low and behold--ALL were innocent of the charges--so the media and everyone else (Sharpton, and the always opportunistic Jesse Jackson as well as the Politicians) needs to stop the race baiting, the truth will come out.

And do you honestly think that with the racial sh1t storm and political hubabub brewing, that if it ever DOES get to trial, the jury will be fair and balanced/impartial? The media (well MSNBC, HLN and CNN) seem to already have decided Zimmerman is guilty by the public court..



There is a lot about this case which smells badly. It smells badly all around. Unfortunately, much like in the Duke case the public has been poisoned by the tiny and possibly irrelevant ‘facts’ which they have been privy to. So, maybe it turns out that everything being said about Zimmerman proves true. At this point it is even odds that everything being said (negatively) proves inaccurate. How many of those ‘famous’ people do you think will line up to apologize. If the Duke case is any indication the answer is zero..

I doubt Sharpton even knows what apologizing is...


Family looks to trademark ‘I am Trayvon’

Yay.. let another :money made rich scheme from tragedy..

SomeRandomGuy
03-27-2012, 07:45 PM
The tardiness, from what I've read, is related to an earlier suspension, not the suspension involving the weed.

And regardless - still irrelevant to the shooting. Should students who get D's in English also be shot dead?



Except he initiated the confrontation, even after being instructed not to by the 911 operator.

I'm all about gun rights, I happen to own one myself. But this is a beef I have with many gun owners. They think that any kind of physical conflict automatically justifies deadly force. If Zimmerman was so scared of a fist fight (especially one that he could have avoided easily) that you're going to gun down an unarmed 17 year old kid... sorry... you're not a "badass", you're a cowardly little bitch.

How do you know he initiated the confrontation? There are reports coming out now that Zimmerman lost track of Martin and was walking back to his vehicle when Martin came up to him. Then they exchanged words got into a fist fight and Zimmerman got his nose broken.

Let me ask you a question if you see a suspicious person in your neighborhood would you not attempt to follow them to find out what they are doing? By suspicious I do not mean a black person either. I mean a young kid walking around in a hoodie late at night. Plus no one ever said that Zimmerman went up and confronted this kid. It is entirely possible that he was simply trying to keep track of him long enough for police to arrive.

ConfusedAirman
03-27-2012, 08:11 PM
So many things about this piss me off. The media focus on the reaction and protests has served to continually repeat false accusations made by emotional people. Some of this misinformation -

1) Zimm was ordered by police to stop following. WRONG! A suggestion from a 911 dispatcher that Zimm had no obligation to follow.
2) Various iterations of Zimm "chasing" Martin with a gun in his hand until Zimm made contact. UNKNOWN! Zimm claims to have followed and then was walking back to vehicle when Martin approached him. No one else knows different.
3) Zimm was not allowed to have a gun as part of Neighborhood Watch. WRONG! No law against. National organizations train against such. Local groups would decide (national group would probably pull endorsement).
4) Killing a 17 y/o who only had Skittles and iced tea was murder and the legal system must punish Zimm. UNKNOWN! It was a killing but murder is a legal verdict. Punishment will be based on the law and not people's emotional feelings. Those people can work to change the law if they want.


The other thing that pisses me off is the so-called calls for justice. I heard Martin's father on NBC with Lester Holt calmly saying he just wants Zimm arrested and tried and whatever happens with a verdict happens. But in front of a crowd with the various race-baiting, protesting, political figures like Sharpton and Jackson, he says he wants a conviction and punishment. Same with many others. They want justice but the only justice that will suffice is a murder conviction. Protesters say Stand Your Ground and other such laws bring a Wild West mentality. I say that Wild West mentality is better demonstrated by their calls for a trial followed by hanging.

Tak
03-27-2012, 08:24 PM
May have been mentioned...the news only shows the mug looking shot of zimmerman,
With his current appearance...

When it comes to the 17 yr old, they show many younger photos some with younger kids,
Not reflecting his appearance...

This thing is in full public affairs swing.

FuelShopTech
03-27-2012, 08:24 PM
<common sense>

I have no idea what "really" happened because 1.) I was not there and don't know anyone who was involved, 2.) I am not an LEO currently investigating the case. Therefore, I have no opinion because I have little to no evidence with which to form a reasonable judgement, just a bunch of useless speculation based on media reporting.

</common sense>

I've never understood people who get hot and bothered over these issues when they have no clue how things "really" went down. Ditto for people who "knew" Casey Anthony was guilty or, conversly, "knew" she was innocent.

briefer
03-27-2012, 08:32 PM
<common sense>

I have no idea what "really" happened because 1.) I was not there and don't know anyone who was involved, 2.) I am not an LEO currently investigating the case. Therefore, I have no opinion because I have little to no evidence with which to form a reasonable judgement, just a bunch of useless speculation based on media reporting.


I've never understood people who get hot and bothered over these issues when they have no clue how things "really" went down. Ditto for people who "knew" Casey Anthony was guilty or, conversly, "knew" she was innocent.
</common sense>


There. Fixed it for you. :)

imported_Shove_your_stupid_meeting
03-27-2012, 08:37 PM
The press has been horrible about this entire thing. Instead of using their position to edcuate people about the stand your ground law (and it's pretty obvious quite a few people don't know wtf they're talking about when they mention it), or perhaps where FL may have gone wrong with it, the press chose sensationalism. They made this about race, when it's really about a law and how it's interpretted.

On a side note, I was actually surprised it took so long for this topic to find it's way here.

Tak
03-27-2012, 08:40 PM
http://gma.yahoo.com/trayvon-martin-dogged-disciplinary-problems-school-151838644--abc-news-topstories.html

Tak
03-27-2012, 08:41 PM
The press is about as unbiased as a politician

TJMAC77SP
03-27-2012, 08:46 PM
The tardiness, from what I've read, is related to an earlier suspension, not the suspension involving the weed.

And regardless - still irrelevant to the shooting. Should students who get D's in English also be shot dead?


“at the time of his death, he was serving a five-day suspension from school for tardiness” (http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2110066,00.html)




Except he initiated the confrontation, even after being instructed not to by the 911 operator.

Not exactly ‘instructed’………….."OK, you don't need to do that,"


I'm all about gun rights, I happen to own one myself. But this is a beef I have with many gun owners. They think that any kind of physical conflict automatically justifies deadly force. If Zimmerman was so scared of a fist fight (especially one that he could have avoided easily) that you're going to gun down an unarmed 17 year old kid... sorry... you're not a "badass", you're a cowardly little bitch.

I won't argue whether or not he should have used a gun. In fact I believe I intimated it wasn't warranted. Avoided a fight, absolutely. Of course he was on Neighborhood Watch so maybe he saw it as a duty to confront. Then again, newest reports are saying there is a possibility Martin was the aggressor. Still don’t have all the facts so I will reserve my he is a ‘cowardly little bitch’ condemnation until we know everything that can be uncovered. I personally have drawn my weapon on ‘unarmed’ people. That is to say on people who had, at that moment nothing in their hands. Once they were subdued and searched I put my weapon away. I guess that makes me a ‘cowardly little bitch’.

As for the 17 year old, he was 6 foot 3 inches tall. Definitely not the kid in some of the photos released.

AF Comm Guy
03-27-2012, 09:05 PM
Well, it appears that Zimmerman's lawyer blew his own credibility out of the water. Scroll down and watch the Lawrence O'Donnell video.

www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/26/craig-sonner-interview-lawrence-odonnell_n_1381578.html?brave"

Shrike
03-27-2012, 09:33 PM
The tardiness, from what I've read, is related to an earlier suspension, not the suspension involving the weed.

And regardless - still irrelevant to the shooting. Should students who get D's in English also be shot dead?



Except he initiated the confrontation, even after being instructed not to by the 911 operator.

I'm all about gun rights, I happen to own one myself. But this is a beef I have with many gun owners. They think that any kind of physical conflict automatically justifies deadly force. If Zimmerman was so scared of a fist fight (especially one that he could have avoided easily) that you're going to gun down an unarmed 17 year old kid... sorry... you're not a "badass", you're a cowardly little bitch.

Interesting. That is the polar opposite of the beliefs of the "many" gun owners I know.

Shrike
03-27-2012, 09:38 PM
<common sense>

I have no idea what "really" happened because 1.) I was not there and don't know anyone who was involved, 2.) I am not an LEO currently investigating the case. Therefore, I have no opinion because I have little to no evidence with which to form a reasonable judgement, just a bunch of useless speculation based on media reporting.

</common sense>

I've never understood people who get hot and bothered over these issues when they have no clue how things "really" went down. Ditto for people who "knew" Casey Anthony was guilty or, conversly, "knew" she was innocent.

Because the sheeple who know no actual facts about the case other than what the media tells them buy into the media frenzy and then divide themselves into opposite sides based upon political beliefs.

Meanwhile, those of us capable of rational thought stand on the sidelines watching the sheeple bleat and bleat and bleat, seeing who can out-shout the other because he who shouts loudest and longest wins, justice and truth be damned.

oregonbean
03-27-2012, 09:56 PM
Well said.. But i do not see what laws were broken by that.. Though if i was a jury member in his case, i would most definitely take that into consideration in whether to say guilty or innocent for any other charges brought.

I don't think ignoring the advice of a 911 dispatcher is against the law, but I really don't know. I'm guessing that since Mr. Zimmerman wasn't arrested immediately after the incident, the police didn't have any evidence that he broke any law. But. . .
it still bothers me that at some point while talking to the dispatcher, he got out of his vehicle and continued following Martin on foot.

Call me crazy, but if I see someone suspicious, I see him holding something in his hand, and it appears he might have something in his waistband, and I can't confirm that it's not a weapon(all things Zimmerman relayed to the dispatcher), I'm not going to follow that person, even if I have a loaded gun. Zimmerman should have let the cops do their job.

akruse
03-27-2012, 10:45 PM
I don't think ignoring the advice of a 911 dispatcher is against the law, but I really don't know. I'm guessing that since Mr. Zimmerman wasn't arrested immediately after the incident, the police didn't have any evidence that he broke any law. But. . .
it still bothers me that at some point while talking to the dispatcher, he got out of his vehicle and continued following Martin on foot.

Call me crazy, but if I see someone suspicious, I see him holding something in his hand, and it appears he might have something in his waistband, and I can't confirm that it's not a weapon(all things Zimmerman relayed to the dispatcher), I'm not going to follow that person, even if I have a loaded gun. Zimmerman should have let the cops do their job.

Couldn't disagree with you more. That is part of the problem with the US today. Its someone elses problem. Someone else will do it.

imported_Shove_your_stupid_meeting
03-27-2012, 10:56 PM
I don't think ignoring the advice of a 911 dispatcher is against the law, but I really don't know. I'm guessing that since Mr. Zimmerman wasn't arrested immediately after the incident, the police didn't have any evidence that he broke any law. But. . .
it still bothers me that at some point while talking to the dispatcher, he got out of his vehicle and continued following Martin on foot.

Call me crazy, but if I see someone suspicious, I see him holding something in his hand, and it appears he might have something in his waistband, and I can't confirm that it's not a weapon(all things Zimmerman relayed to the dispatcher), I'm not going to follow that person, even if I have a loaded gun. Zimmerman should have let the cops do their job.


Well if you buy what's been reported/leaked, Zimmerman loses sight of Martin, the dispatcher suggests that Zimmerman goes to hang out by some mailboxes and wait for the police. Zimmerman agrees, heads in that direction, and shortly after the call ends, he supposedly gets jumped.

*shrug*

Rusty Jones
03-27-2012, 10:56 PM
Family looks to trademark ‘I am Trayvon’


Your source?


http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/trayvon-martin-mother-moves-trademark-phrases-rallying-cries-wake-son-death-article-1.1051304

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2120841/Trayvon-Martin-case-Mother-trademarks-sons-name.html

http://now.msn.com/now/0326-trayvon-martin-trademark.aspx

http://globalgrind.com/news/trayvon-martins-parents-fight-trademark-accusations-details

Rusty Jones
03-27-2012, 10:57 PM
Family looks to trademark ‘I am Trayvon’


Your source?


http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/trayvon-martin-mother-moves-trademark-phrases-rallying-cries-wake-son-death-article-1.1051304

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2120841/Trayvon-Martin-case-Mother-trademarks-sons-name.html

http://now.msn.com/now/0326-trayvon-martin-trademark.aspx

http://globalgrind.com/news/trayvon-martins-parents-fight-trademark-accusations-details

Banned
03-27-2012, 11:39 PM
“at the time of his death, he was serving a five-day suspension from school for tardiness” (http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2110066,00.html)

Interesting. I can't say I'm surprised though. Parents, as we all know, have a tendency to be that way when talking about their kids.

Though on the flip side of that coin - it is interesting to see all these Conservatives leaping out of the woodwork to smear him. For fuck's sake.


Not exactly ‘instructed’………….."OK, you don't need to do that,"

Maybe my command of the English language is just better than this "captain"... that seems, to me at least, a pretty clear instruction to not follow him.


I won't argue whether or not he should have used a gun. In fact I believe I intimated it wasn't warranted. Avoided a fight, absolutely. Of course he was on Neighborhood Watch so maybe he saw it as a duty to confront. Then again, newest reports are saying there is a possibility Martin was the aggressor. Still don’t have all the facts so I will reserve my he is a ‘cowardly little bitch’ condemnation until we know everything that can be uncovered. I personally have drawn my weapon on ‘unarmed’ people. That is to say on people who had, at that moment nothing in their hands. Once they were subdued and searched I put my weapon away. I guess that makes me a ‘cowardly little bitch’.

This isn't a warzone. This is American soil. As much as I support the right to bear arms for myself and others, I am at the same time somewhat concerned about the sheer number of complete fucking retards who could get spooked and shoot me. Fortunately, I'm pasty white as snow, so there's no danger of... ahem... "mistaken identity".

My statement still stands. Unless some startling new evidence is revealed - his actions were completely uncalled for.

Now, resisting your urge to leap to the defense of Zimmerman - from a purely neutral standpoint - a half dozen frantic calls to 911 because he saw a black kid in a hoodie... does this sound like the actions of a clear thinking, cool headed individual?


As for the 17 year old, he was 6 foot 3 inches tall. Definitely not the kid in some of the photos released.

Okay... so Zimmerman saw a TALL black kid in a hoodie walking down the street. I can see why he peed himself with fright.


Interesting. That is the polar opposite of the beliefs of the "many" gun owners I know.

Not from the looks of this thread. If I saw a man with a gun standing over a dead minor in the street with a bag of skittles and iced tea, I'd think "Hmm... looks like a possible murder" - not bend over backwards and try to find every reason in the book to justify his actions.

oregonbean
03-27-2012, 11:44 PM
Couldn't disagree with you more. That is part of the problem with the US today. Its someone elses problem. Someone else will do it.

I understand what you are saying, and I don't necessarily disagree with you in regards to the "it's not my problem" attitude that a lot of people seem hold dear.

From a personal standpoint, and in the situation described, I just think that, me having a gun and being proficient in it's use, doesn't mean that I am also adequately trained to handle a potentially dangerous situation(confronting someone I don't know who is acting suspiciously, has something in his hand, and is reaching for his waistband). The police, who are on their way(b/c I've called them and told them where I'm at), are better trained and equipped to handle that type of situation. And, you're right, it's not their problem, it's their job, and it's what they are trained to do. Whereas(from my perspective), my taking action might create a more dangerous situation, for myself, for that person I don't know, for the neighborhood, and for the police.

And, I can sit here and think about the whole thing--what would I do, what should I do, etc. . . and then do something completely different if I were actually in that situation.

I wasn't there, and I dont' know what happened. The more and more I see about the whole thing on TV, the more I am convinced that the news is just one more horrible, idiotic reality tv show that serves no real purpose other than to satisfy morons with gnat-like attention spans.

Banned
03-27-2012, 11:44 PM
Manny Pacquiao was 145 pounds when he fought Miguel Cotto. He has fought other bouts as light as 113 pounds. Even if I weighed 250 pounds I wouldnt be lining up to fight him. Im curious why you equate weight with fighting ability. As you said Zimmerman was 100 pounds heavier but he also was fightingg with a broken nose (I wonder how that happened) and most likely trying to protect his weapon from being taken from him. That would change things in a fight.

Size and weight is the main factor in a fight between average joes - because average joes have little to no hand to hand combat training.


I don't give a shit what race, gender, etc. you are. If you are attacking me and I feel my life is in danger, either my knife is going into you or an entire magazine of either .40 or .45 (whichever gun I'm carrying at the time) is getting emptied into your body.

In AF news, I'm washing my flight suits now. (puts on flame suit and waits for RPA op's don't need them comments):lol

And this is why I'm uncomfortable around civilians with guns. Because they feel the same way - but have zero military training (except modern warfare 3), so spooking them isn't very hard.

Banned
03-27-2012, 11:53 PM
I was at the bus stop last night... and I saw a big black guy wearing a hoodie! Where's the armed-to-the-teeth neighborhood watch clowns when you need them?

IH8EngMTX
03-27-2012, 11:58 PM
I don't give a shit what race, gender, etc. you are. If you are attacking me and I feel my life is in danger, either my knife is going into you or an entire magazine of either .40 or .45 (whichever gun I'm carrying at the time) is getting emptied into your body.


With all that tough talk, I'm sure that someone who weighs 100 lbs less than you and is high on downers* wouldn't be able to kick your ass, would they?

I mean if you can't kick his ass, then you should at least be able to muscle your way out of the situation so that you wouldn't have to use deadly force, right?

*This is based on Zimmerman's claim that Travyon appeared to be high on drugs, and combined with the reports of Travyon being suspended for having a bag with traces of marijuana.

I've underlined and made bold the relevant response since reading comprehension is lacking in this thread.

Banned
03-28-2012, 12:00 AM
I think you didn't answer his question. If you're so tough - why would you freak out and start shooting?

Rusty Jones
03-28-2012, 12:02 AM
I've underlined and made bold the relevant response since reading comprehension is lacking in this thread.

Again, he weighs 100 lbs less than you, and I'll even throw in that he's high on downers. Why are you in so much danger that you need to resort to a gun? Hell, why not comply with the operator and stay in your vehicle?

You can't go around picking fights with people, and then pull out a gun if you're getting your ass kicked. Self-defense doesn't work that way.

imported_Shove_your_stupid_meeting
03-28-2012, 12:03 AM
Perhaps I missed it in this thread, but if I didn't, here's the language of the law:


776.012 Use of force in defense of person.—A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:
(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or

(2) Under those circumstances permitted pursuant to s. 776.013.


Title XLVI, Chapter 776.012

http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2011/776.012

Banned
03-28-2012, 12:04 AM
If I win, I kick the shit out of him. But if he wins and kicks the shit out of me... I shoot him dead. Sounds reasonable to me.

/sarcasm

Rusty Jones
03-28-2012, 12:15 AM
If I win, I kick the shit out of him. But if he wins and kicks the shit out of me... I shoot him dead. Sounds reasonable to me.

/sarcasm

Oh, I also love how some of the people here are so convinced that Trayvon was the aggressor and started attacking Zimmerman.

What I want to know is, why was Trayvon attacking him? When he approached Trayvon (after he was asked not to), did he go up to him with a smile and invite him to a barbecue? Is that why Trayvon was attacking him?

oregonbean
03-28-2012, 12:18 AM
Well if you buy what's been reported/leaked, Zimmerman loses sight of Martin, the dispatcher suggests that Zimmerman goes to hang out by some mailboxes and wait for the police. Zimmerman agrees, heads in that direction, and shortly after the call ends, he supposedly gets jumped.

*shrug*

I'm not inclined to buy anything that gets leaked/reported. I just listened to the 911 call and wondered if Zimmerman followed Martin. I'm not out there screaming for someone's head on a platter like I know what happened. If it turns out Zimmerman wasn't following Martin, and Martin attacked him, I think he had every right to defend himself.

Ultimately, the police department, FBI, whoever else is officially investigating this, will determine the facts and take the appropriate action(or non-action), and that should be the end of it. The whole thing is a pretty ugly social commentary. I'm not a fan of the sheeple that grab their pitchforks because they saw a tweet or a facebook post, viral video, 10 second soundbite. . . I am a fan of those who mock the sheeple, so I'm off to watch some Action Figure Therapy.

imported_blacksheep1208
03-28-2012, 12:19 AM
Oh, I also love how some of the people here are so convinced that Trayvon was the aggressor and started attacking Zimmerman.

What I want to know is, why was Trayvon attacking him? When he approached Trayvon (after he was asked not to), did he go up to him with a smile and invite him to a barbecue? Is that why Trayvon was attacking him?

So you missed the part about Zimmerman no longer following him after losing contact and walking back to his SUV, then having Martin punch him in the head, and then jump on him and pound his head into the ground. Martin probably felt dissed and had to defend his manhood. And we all know the best way to do that is to kick the crap out of a guy that is 5'2.

IH8EngMTX
03-28-2012, 12:20 AM
And this is why I'm uncomfortable around civilians with guns. Because they feel the same way - but have zero military training (except modern warfare 3), so spooking them isn't very hard.

I am very comfortable around citizens with guns. I am going to presume tha Zimmerman has a Concealed Weapons Permit in Florida. I have one from that state as well since I just moved from there. You are required to take a firearms safety course in order to obtain the permit. In Nevada and Utah, you also have to take a firearm proficiency test to prove you can actually hit the target before you get your license. What does having military training have to do with defending yourself when someone is beating the shit out of you?


I think you didn't answer his question. If you're so tough - why would you freak out and start shooting?

I never stated that I would freak out and start shooting nor did I juxtopose myself into Zimmerman's postion. I stated that if someone is beating the shit out of me, regardless of what their race, gender, or weight is, I will use deadly force to protect myself if I feel my life is in danger. Someone stradling my body slamming my head into the ground (which can easily knock you out) is a situation I would feel my life was in danger.


Again, he weighs 100 lbs less than you, and I'll even throw in that he's high on downers. Why are you in so much danger that you need to resort to a gun? Hell, why not comply with the operator and stay in your vehicle?

You can't go around picking fights with people, and then pull out a gun if you're getting your ass kicked. Self-defense doesn't work that way.

Please see the bold part above and indicate where I put myself into Zimmerman's position in my earlier post.

Rusty Jones
03-28-2012, 12:23 AM
Please see the bold part above and indicate where I put myself into Zimmerman's position in my earlier post.

So you mean you're not talking about the case? You decided to just waltz on it, and talk about something else? Am I understanding this correctly?

Rusty Jones
03-28-2012, 12:27 AM
So you missed the part about Zimmerman no longer following him after losing contact and walking back to his SUV, then having Martin punch him in the head, and then jump on him and pound his head into the ground. Martin probably felt dissed and had to defend his manhood. And we all know the best way to do that is to kick the crap out of a guy that is 5'2.

That's according to Zimmerman's account. I know that we don't know and all that, but to be honest with you... if the talking led directly to getting physical, which led right into Trayvon getting shot... I know that if I was Zimmerman, that would be the FIRST lie I would make up. Kind of like a wife beater telling the cops that his wife ran into his fist.

Banned
03-28-2012, 12:34 AM
So you missed the part about Zimmerman no longer following him after losing contact and walking back to his SUV, then having Martin punch him in the head, and then jump on him and pound his head into the ground. Martin probably felt dissed and had to defend his manhood. And we all know the best way to do that is to kick the crap out of a guy that is 5'2.

Wow, so Trayvon hated barbecues that bad huh?


[QUOTE=IH8EngMTX;519065]I am very comfortable around citizens with guns. I am going to presume tha Zimmerman has a Concealed Weapons Permit in Florida. I have one from that state as well since I just moved from there. You are required to take a firearms safety course in order to obtain the permit. In Nevada and Utah, you also have to take a firearm proficiency test to prove you can actually hit the target before you get your license. What does having military training have to do with defending yourself when someone is beating the shit out of you?

I don't know about Florida, but the California safety course literally took me about 10 minutes to complete. A caveman could do it.



I never stated that I would freak out and start shooting nor did I juxtopose myself into Zimmerman's postion. I stated that if someone is beating the shit out of me, regardless of what their race, gender, or weight is, I will use deadly force to protect myself if I feel my life is in danger. Someone stradling my body slamming my head into the ground (which can easily knock you out) is a situation I would feel my life was in danger.

Or you could just walk away and let the police do their job.


Oh, I also love how some of the people here are so convinced that Trayvon was the aggressor and started attacking Zimmerman.

What I want to know is, why was Trayvon attacking him? When he approached Trayvon (after he was asked not to), did he go up to him with a smile and invite him to a barbecue? Is that why Trayvon was attacking him?

And that is why trying to argue with these people about this is just as pointless as trying to argue with them about the Patriot Act. "Bad guys" don't need any motivations or goals - they do what they do because they're bad and hate our freedom, no explanation needed.

akruse
03-28-2012, 12:37 AM
I understand what you are saying, and I don't necessarily disagree with you in regards to the "it's not my problem" attitude that a lot of people seem hold dear.

From a personal standpoint, and in the situation described, I just think that, me having a gun and being proficient in it's use, doesn't mean that I am also adequately trained to handle a potentially dangerous situation(confronting someone I don't know who is acting suspiciously, has something in his hand, and is reaching for his waistband). The police, who are on their way(b/c I've called them and told them where I'm at), are better trained and equipped to handle that type of situation. And, you're right, it's not their problem, it's their job, and it's what they are trained to do. Whereas(from my perspective), my taking action might create a more dangerous situation, for myself, for that person I don't know, for the neighborhood, and for the police.

And, I can sit here and think about the whole thing--what would I do, what should I do, etc. . . and then do something completely different if I were actually in that situation.

I wasn't there, and I dont' know what happened. The more and more I see about the whole thing on TV, the more I am convinced that the news is just one more horrible, idiotic reality tv show that serves no real purpose other than to satisfy morons with gnat-like attention spans.

Agree completely with your response and how it is written. My response to your statement was more in dealing with someone actively committing a crime and just sitting back. Nobody knows how they would react in that situation.

IH8EngMTX
03-28-2012, 12:37 AM
So you mean you're not talking about the case? You decided to just waltz on it, and talk about something else? Am I understanding this correctly?

I was just stating that I can understand why he shot. I nor you have all the facts of this case (along with the media) so I will refrain from calling either of them a dumbass at this time. The facts are: Martin was on top of Zimmerman slamming his head into the ground and broke his nose. Eyewitness and evidence supports this. Disregarding all the speculation beforehand, If I was in a situation where I am getting the shit beat out of me, I will use deadly force if I feel my life is in danger. I'm sure Zimmerman felt his life was in danger as his head was being slammed into the ground.

imported_blacksheep1208
03-28-2012, 12:39 AM
That's according to Zimmerman's account. I know that we don't know and all that, but to be honest with you... if the talking led directly to getting physical, which led right into Trayvon getting shot... I know that if I was Zimmerman, that would be the FIRST lie I would make up. Kind of like a wife beater telling the cops that his wife ran into his fist.

In that case let's no go off what the police used to determine whether charges should be filed or not. Let's just live in the land of make believe and make up our own version of what happened. Seems like the best way to take care of things.

Banned
03-28-2012, 12:40 AM
...you mean the same police chief who was suspended shortly afterwards? Sounds to me that's a sign that the police DIDN'T handle the case well.

imported_blacksheep1208
03-28-2012, 12:41 AM
...you mean the same police chief suspended for his inadequate response?

You mean the police chief that has temporarily stepped down? Don't let the facts get in the way of a good story.

Banned
03-28-2012, 12:45 AM
You mean the police chief that has temporarily stepped down? Don't let the facts get in the way of a good story.

Potato potatoe. He was taken down by a vote of no confidence by the city commission.

No please... what were you telling me about the "facts" again?

imported_blacksheep1208
03-28-2012, 12:47 AM
Potato potatoe. He was taken down by a vote of no confidence by the city commission.

No please... what were you telling me about the "facts" again?

You know, I'll just let you live in your fantasy world. Sorry for intruding.

Rusty Jones
03-28-2012, 12:48 AM
You know, I'll just let you live in your fantasy world. Sorry for intruding.

The white flag has been waved!

WPNS
03-28-2012, 03:58 AM
It isn't the fact that he was killed. It's the fact that nothing is being done about the case.

By the way, I don't think that you're really fed up with the topic. You just happened to bring it on over to militarytimes.com when no one else here was even talking about it. Thanks to you, we now get to! :heh

Wow, less than 24 hours and it's the most talked about thread in a long time... Mission Accomplished! :fish2

WPNS
03-28-2012, 04:07 AM
But for the fact the YOU stopped to question said individual (Who - Last time I checked had EVERY right to be walking down said street) there would have been ZERO altercation.

You cannot go and pick a fight, start to loose and use deadly force then claim self defense.

Does the fact that the 911 operator instructed him NOT to follow the youth count for anything?

-BB-

Look stupid, I LIVE in a gated community, and the sign says 'NO TRESPASSING" that means I have every right to ask someone what they're doing in MY neighborhood, It's called being "Vigilante and Aware of your Surroundings" Ever heard of that? It's the same training we've ALL received while serving this country, so unless you haven't served and are on these forums to talk about shit you know nothing about, keep going about your business and let someone you don't recognize or without the proper ID to walk up and stick a bomb in an aircraft's intake!

akruse
03-28-2012, 04:10 AM
It's called being "Vigilante and Aware of your Surroundings"

Can always count on the weapons folk...Your error is playing right into the other side of the argument. Classic.

ScarlettGTO
03-28-2012, 04:16 AM
Look stupid, I LIVE in a gated community, and the sign says 'NO TRESPASSING" that means I have every right to ask someone what they're doing in MY neighborhood, It's called being "Vigilante and Aware of your Surroundings" Ever heard of that? It's the same training we've ALL received while serving this country, so unless you haven't served and are on these forums to talk about shit you know nothing about, keep going about your business and let someone you don't recognize or without the proper ID to walk up and stick a bomb in an aircraft's intake!

Hey bro, this ain't the ramp. You can settle down with the RAB checks in your hood.

WPNS
03-28-2012, 04:32 AM
I am trying to understand how a hoodie and someone’s name have anything to do with this situation. The fact is a boy is dead and someone shot him and why is happened is not clear. If it was a white, brown or yellow kid really doesn’t matter. If it was my son that was walking to his father’s house and someone shot him, I would be raising all kind of hell to figure out why this happened. I wouldn’t call on Sharpton or Jessie Jackson because IMO they do not represent the black community, they turn a negative situation and make it into something that is about them. There are too many unanswered questions and everyone is speculating on what happened and no one knows.

But getting punched in the nose and getting shot are two different things. If I beat you up, I deserve to get my ass kicked but I don't deserve to get shot or to die.

I don't give a flying fuck about what you think someone should use when attacked. If Zimmerman dies from Trayvon smacking his head on the pavement, guess what, Tray-Tray gets Murder 1. So how would your story sound then? I wish I had a neighborhood watch guy like Zimmerman patrolling my neighborhood. Cause let me tell you motherfuckers something, what if this was YOUR neighborhood and Tray-Tray had just left your house where he raped and killed your wife and kids? Would you not want someone actually being proactive and trying to make the neighborhood safer? Maybe the thugs would've heard about the "crazy vato watchman" being a rent a cop and looking under every garbage can for the boogyman. Think about it that way, not the fact that Zimmerman violated Tray-tray's rights by asking him why he was in a GATED community, that obviously is GATED for a reason! If you see anybody with there pants down under their asses with their plaid boxers showing, do you not say in your mind, "What's that thug ass bitch doing in my town?" And no, I'm not racially profiling, I think that thought about ANYBODY I see looking like that.

WPNS
03-28-2012, 04:44 AM
What's this got to do with the USAF?

Maybe it has to do with the fact that I've been around MANY a black service member when they called their buddy in uniform, around other people in a crowd to include SQ CC's and CCM's, and act like it's "OK" because they're black and that's how they talk to each other. This, told to me exactly by several "leaders" in my Air Force. I've also been witness to a caucasian hung up by his balls for having the same "conversation" with another caucasian but since it was overheard by someone else, we can't use that term we're told, hence, ball stringing commenced. Just like someone mentioned before (Bruwin) about a member blaring racially slurred music through the BX parking garage for all to hear. It shouldn't matter the race that's playing said music, if all the other races can't get away with it, blacks shouldn't either.

Tak
03-28-2012, 04:46 AM
Now I remember why I like ammo guys better.

WPNS
03-28-2012, 05:26 AM
Now I remember why I like ammo guys better.

Dude, if you like guys, that's ok, you can voice that publicly now. No more need to hide, and yes you like ammo guys better, why wouldn't you? Since they are the "gayest" butt-pirates out there... :deadhorse

ScarlettGTO
03-28-2012, 05:27 AM
Am I the only here that just doesn't give a shit about this AT ALL?

:behindsofa

WPNS
03-28-2012, 05:28 AM
Hey bro, this ain't the ramp. You can settle down with the RAB checks in your hood.

LOL, that's how we roll here on the Eastside! Gots to keep it gangsta

WPNS
03-28-2012, 05:29 AM
Am I the only here that just doesn't give a shit about this AT ALL?

:behindsofa

Honestly, I thought this would get 10, MAYBE 15 responses... never thought it'd be the talk of the forum

:cheer2

ScarlettGTO
03-28-2012, 05:29 AM
LOL, that's how we roll here on the Eastside! Gots to keep it gangsta

I'm not gonna lie, I wanted to stay out of this thread until that post. It had such conviction and I had to comment.

ScarlettGTO
03-28-2012, 05:30 AM
LOL, that's how we roll here on the Eastside! Gots to keep it gangsta

I'm not gonna lie, I wanted to stay out of this thread until that post. It had such conviction and I had to comment.

WPNS
03-28-2012, 05:33 AM
GTO, I can only IMAGINE how many are standing on the side of the train tracks waiting for the 2 steaming locomotives to collide head-on!

:pop2

ScarlettGTO
03-28-2012, 05:35 AM
GTO, I can only IMAGINE how many are standing on the side of the train tracks waiting for the 2 steaming locomotives to collide head-on!

:pop2

It was me for awhile until a few posts ago, back to the shadows to lurk.

BadBender
03-28-2012, 06:08 AM
I can see how this topic is a relevant AF/military topic. I think this is a great lesson in how the media skews the news to fit their agenda. The facts are not known or intentionally left out, non-current pictures are used to portray the parties in a different light, and rumors are held in high esteem. Think about that then think about that Solider accused of shooting those Afghans. Heck, think about how PTSD and the war is being portrayed and how that may change the way future employers look at veterans all because the media wants us to believe all veterans are damaged goods.

garhkal
03-28-2012, 08:08 AM
I've never understood people who get hot and bothered over these issues when they have no clue how things "really" went down. Ditto for people who "knew" Casey Anthony was guilty or, conversly, "knew" she was innocent.

To some, it gives them a grand stand to push their agendas (sharpton)
To others, it gives them something to 'look like they care about'.


Interesting. That is the polar opposite of the beliefs of the "many" gun owners I know.

Shrike, i am with bonhem here... A number of gun owners i know, feel that their FIRST response when confronted by an attacker of any sort, is to shoot.


Couldn't disagree with you more. That is part of the problem with the US today. Its someone elses problem. Someone else will do it.

Agreed. That is why we see time after time, vid clips of someone in medical trouble, or getting beaten up and lots of people just standing around Watching... Not doing a damn thing. Cause their mentality is "Someone else will help"..

TJMAC77SP
03-28-2012, 11:41 AM
Interesting. I can't say I'm surprised though. Parents, as we all know, have a tendency to be that way when talking about their kids.

Though on the flip side of that coin - it is interesting to see all these Conservatives leaping out of the woodwork to smear him. For fuck's sake.

So the bottom line of this is that the ‘tardiness’ was a lie. Therefore anything they say has to be suspect. I believe that was my point.




Maybe my command of the English language is just better than this "captain"... that seems, to me at least, a pretty clear instruction to not follow him.

Sorry to hear about the English problems. Bottom line is he was advised and chose to ignore that advice.


This isn't a warzone. This is American soil. As much as I support the right to bear arms for myself and others, I am at the same time somewhat concerned about the sheer number of complete fucking retards who could get spooked and shoot me. Fortunately, I'm pasty white as snow, so there's no danger of... ahem... "mistaken identity".

My statement still stands. Unless some startling new evidence is revealed - his actions were completely uncalled for.

Who was speaking of a war zone? I can’t however argue your impression of some gun owners. Seems they are sometimes a little too eager to use the weapon.

I am also sorry about your cultural guilt.


Now, resisting your urge to leap to the defense of Zimmerman - from a purely neutral standpoint - a half dozen frantic calls to 911 because he saw a black kid in a hoodie... does this sound like the actions of a clear thinking, cool headed individual?

You just can’t help yourself can you? If I am opposed to something you have said then I must be DEFENDING the other position. The only thing I am ‘leaping’ to defend (as usual) is the truth.

I had not heard that Zimmerman made a ‘half dozen’ 911 calls. Where did you get that?


Okay... so Zimmerman saw a TALL black kid in a hoodie walking down the street. I can see why he peed himself with fright.

Really? You can do better than that. You mentioned his age like that would automatically make someone Zimmerman’s age and size an advantage in a physical confrontation. A silly assumption given Martin’s size. Simple statement of facts.

Rusty Jones
03-28-2012, 11:52 AM
I had not heard that Zimmerman made a ‘half dozen’ 911 calls. Where did you get that?

Half a dozen? Try 46 since January 2011

http://www.examiner.com/crime-in-national/trayvon-martin-shooter-george-zimmerman-made-46-calls-to-911-a-year

CYBERFX1024
03-28-2012, 12:20 PM
[QUOTE=Rusty Jones;519162]Half a dozen? Try 46 since January 2011

Oh wow he made 46 phone calls in over a year's time frame. He is part of the community watch idiot. What is he supposed to do, blow his horn? You and Joe are about the most idiotic people I have met on this forum.

I am all with WPNS on this one. If he was in my GATED community, and I didn't know who he was. Then yes I would stop him and ask him why is he there, what's the address. Believe it or not. you might have done just enough to prevent a crime from happening in the first place.

Rusty Jones
03-28-2012, 12:27 PM
[QUOTE=Rusty Jones;519162]Half a dozen? Try 46 since January 2011

Oh wow he made 46 phone calls in over a year's time frame. He is part of the community watch idiot. What is he supposed to do, blow his horn? You and Joe are about the most idiotic people I have met on this forum.

I am all with WPNS on this one. If he was in my GATED community, and I didn't know who he was. Then yes I would stop him and ask him why is he there, what's the address. Believe it or not. you might have done just enough to prevent a crime from happening in the first place.

Is this conversation too much for you to handle, that you need to resort to calling people "idiot"? It obviously is.

46 phone calls in a year is almost one per week. What gated community do you know of that has so much crime, that there's even that many calls made in one year by all of the neighbors put together?

First off, if I'm a 17 year old kid, and you stop me and ask me these questions - you're not my father, you're not the police, nor are you in ANY position of authority over me whatsoever - and I'll be more than willing to let you know it, and keep on walking. You touch me, and we're gonna get physical. Simple as that.

Greg
03-28-2012, 12:30 PM
Am I the only here that just doesn't give a shit about this AT ALL?

:behindsofa

You mean kinda like this incident and it's blow-up?

Tawana Brawley (born 1972) is an African-American woman from Wappingers Falls, New York. In 1987, at the age of 15, she received national media attention in the United States for accusing six white men, some of whom were police officers, of having raped her. The accusations soon earned her notoriety, which was inflamed by Brawley's advisers (including the Reverend Al Sharpton and attorneys Alton H. Maddox and C. Vernon Mason), the statements of various public officials, and intense media attention.[1] After hearing evidence, a grand jury concluded in October 1988 that Brawley had not been the victim of a forcible sexual assault and that she herself may have created the appearance of an attack.[2] The New York prosecutor whom Brawley had accused as one of her alleged assailants successfully sued Brawley and her three advisers for defamation.[3]

TJMAC77SP
03-28-2012, 12:35 PM
Half a dozen? Try 46 since January 2011

http://www.examiner.com/crime-in-national/trayvon-martin-shooter-george-zimmerman-made-46-calls-to-911-a-year

I thought he was referring to this situation. The guy is on the neighborhood watch, calling 911 is what they do. How is this relevant to the shooting incident? Did his 911 calls have any results?

Rusty Jones
03-28-2012, 12:47 PM
I thought he was referring to this situation. The guy is on the neighborhood watch, calling 911 is what they do. How is this relevant to the shooting incident? Did his 911 calls have any results?

I doubt it. However, the exceptionally high number of phone calls contributed to his image as an overzealous wannabe cop. It could also mean that he's far more panicky than rational.

ScarlettGTO
03-28-2012, 01:05 PM
You mean kinda like this incident and it's blow-up?

Tawana Brawley (born 1972) is an African-American woman from Wappingers Falls, New York. In 1987, at the age of 15, she received national media attention in the United States for accusing six white men, some of whom were police officers, of having raped her. The accusations soon earned her notoriety, which was inflamed by Brawley's advisers (including the Reverend Al Sharpton and attorneys Alton H. Maddox and C. Vernon Mason), the statements of various public officials, and intense media attention.[1] After hearing evidence, a grand jury concluded in October 1988 that Brawley had not been the victim of a forcible sexual assault and that she herself may have created the appearance of an attack.[2] The New York prosecutor whom Brawley had accused as one of her alleged assailants successfully sued Brawley and her three advisers for defamation.[3]

Yeah, don't care about that one either, now or when I was 2 (in 87).

Shrike
03-28-2012, 01:09 PM
Am I the only here that just doesn't give a shit about this AT ALL?

:behindsofa

I'm only interested for the entertainment it provides. As I said previously only two people know exactly what happened and one of them is dead. So it's amusing - in a sad way - to see so many people flying off the handle about things they only think they know. It's a nice microcosm of the whole world at large - lies, half-facts, and mindless speculation being used by both the media and the uninformed to further political agendas. I just wish Geroge Carlin were still around to see it as he'd get a kick out of it.

SomeRandomGuy
03-28-2012, 01:10 PM
I doubt it. However, the exceptionally high number of phone calls contributed to his image as an overzealous wannabe cop. It could also mean that he's far more panicky than rational.

What was the outcome of those other 46 calls? Was every single one of them about a suspsicious black person? Did he kill the other 46 people? What makes this situation different then the others? Since you are making the argument that past behavior can predict future behavior (I also made that argument earlier) Lets take the idea and run with it. We can probably safely assume that Zimmerman approached this situation the same as the other 46. Im sure the 911 dispatcher probably asked him not to follow the other people either. The question becomes what went wrong this time? In this situation the person he was following decided to fight back or be confrontational. If Martin had simply explained where he was going this would be a non-issue. The fact is he got into a fistfight with someone who was armed. Thats always a bad idea unless your reason for the fight is to disarm said person in fear that they will shoot you.

TJMAC77SP
03-28-2012, 01:10 PM
I doubt it. However, the exceptionally high number of phone calls contributed to his image as an overzealous wannabe cop. It could also mean that he's far more panicky than rational.

Actually they did have results.

“He once caught a thief and an arrest was made,” said Cynthia Wibker, secretary of the homeowners association. “He helped solve a lot of crimes.” (http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/17/2700249_p2/shooter-of-trayvon-martin-a-habitual.html)

Zimmerman is a wannabe cop and pretty passionate about 'policing' his community. Not sure I would label him 'panicky'.

Also, in light of this..."In all, police had been called to the 260-unit complex 402 times from Jan. 1, 2011 to Feb. 26, 2012." Maybe 46 calls in a twelve month period isn't so crazy after all

Rusty Jones
03-28-2012, 01:14 PM
What was the outcome of those other 46 calls? Was every single one of them about a suspsicious black person? Did he kill the other 46 people? What makes this situation different then the others? Since you are making the argument that past behavior can predict future behavior (I also made that argument earlier) Lets take the idea and run with it. We can probably safely assume that Zimmerman approached this situation the same as the other 46. Im sure the 911 dispatcher probably asked him not to follow the other people either. The question becomes what went wrong this time? In this situation the person he was following decided to fight back or be confrontational. If Martin had simply explained where he was going this would be a non-issue. The fact is he got into a fistfight with someone who was armed. Thats always a bad idea unless your reason for the fight is to disarm said person in fear that they will shoot you.

See post #204.

Rusty Jones
03-28-2012, 01:22 PM
Actually they did have results.

“He once caught a thief and an arrest was made,” said Cynthia Wibker, secretary of the homeowners association. “He helped solve a lot of crimes.” (http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/17/2700249_p2/shooter-of-trayvon-martin-a-habitual.html)

Zimmerman is a wannabe cop and pretty passionate about 'policing' his community. Not sure I would label him 'panicky'.

Also, in light of this..."In all, police had been called to the 260-unit complex 402 times from Jan. 1, 2011 to Feb. 26, 2012." Maybe 46 calls in a twelve month period isn't so crazy after all

Is there a percentage of calls that have resulted in an arrest, particularly of non-residents of the community?

Luvnlife
03-28-2012, 01:38 PM
Is there a percentage of calls that have resulted in an arrest, particularly of non-residents of the community?

Wow you're still here?? Please turn off the light and close the door when you're done.

SomeRandomGuy
03-28-2012, 01:54 PM
Wow you're still here?? Please turn off the light and close the door when you're done.

Actually that probably is not a good idea. He has already been involved in an internet argument with gun owners. I would hate for a suspicious person leaving this room in the dark to be gunned down. Its ok if he leaves I just wouldn't recommend turning the lights out :spy

Drackore
03-28-2012, 02:31 PM
Devil's advocate here: Neighborhood watch captain sees someone in his gated community that he doesn't recognize, but because the person he sees is black and this watch captain is NOT black, he decides not to report it because he doesn't want to be seen as racist. It turns out this one particular black person is a theif, or rapist, or muderer, and a crime is later reported that night.

Coulda, woulda, shoulda...didn't.

Now the cry of racism is being screamed out in this case, even after it was reported that Zimmerman is not only hispanic, but has black friends.

Teenagers of all walks of life and color are not known for their rational thinking, their appropriate decision making, or maturity (at least in America). Does being suspended for weed mean the kid should have been shot or even mark him as a bad kid? No, it doesn't. Does a teenager who knew he was being followed by SOMEONE (not knowing who that someone may have been) and decides he wants to send a message deserve to die? I don't know. If the kid started the physical altercation, then he learned a lesson my dad taught me, but he learned it the hard way: Don't start something or say something to someone you just don't know. They might have a gun that is bigger than your muscles or mouth.

Everyone keeps calling this guy a wanna-be cop, etc. Keep in mind that these positions are created because of the lack of police. There is a lack of police because 1) Unions drive up salaries and benefits, and 2) Taxpayers don't want to pay more for it. The gated community hires these people to do a job...and that job is to keep the area safe and secure, and to report suspicious activity to the police. The police, on the other hand, don't want to get called everytime a window is open on a hot summer night or some resident's guest parked on the wrong side of the street. Thus the watchman, or security guard, need to have some sort of authority. The members of the gated community grant that authority when they move in, sometimes in the form of an extra fee to pay for the security, or by signing an agreement form/contract that they never read.

The person hosting the kid probably didn't make mention to anyone that they were having this kid as a guest. If THEY don't know, then how are they supposed to assertain that the kid had a right to be there?

People live in gated communities for a reason: To keep riffraff out.

Everyone rushed to judgement on this. I am to blame as well. I have since stepped back and decided to wait and see what the investigations and grand juries dig up. Until then, the media is just going to spin this into a frenzy.

The one thing I think we can ALL agree on is that ethical journalism is dead, and this particular story hammered the final nail in that coffin.

HollomanMSgt
03-28-2012, 02:41 PM
The problem with people like rusty and Joe. No matter how detailed an investigation happens how much they dig into it or gather all the air tight evidence they can find. If Zimmerman is found to be in the right........ Their argument will then shift to they must not have done it right or they are covering something up for Zimmerman and he still killed that poor innocent child (the 6 foot 3, 17 year old child) Trust me i have seen people on the internet liek those two for a long time now not matter what you say or how much they are proven wrong they do not care they are right and have gotten themselfs to deeply involved to back out and admit that they were wrong.

Guess we will just have to wait and see what an investigation reveals.






Devil's advocate here: Neighborhood watch captain sees someone in his gated community that he doesn't recognize, but because the person he sees is black and this watch captain is NOT black, he decides not to report it because he doesn't want to be seen as racist. It turns out this one particular black person is a theif, or rapist, or muderer, and a crime is later reported that night.

Coulda, woulda, shoulda...didn't.

Now the cry of racism is being screamed out in this case, even after it was reported that Zimmerman is not only hispanic, but has black friends.

Teenagers of all walks of life and color are not known for their rational thinking, their appropriate decision making, or maturity (at least in America). Does being suspended for weed mean the kid should have been shot or even mark him as a bad kid? No, it doesn't. Does a teenager who knew he was being followed by SOMEONE (not knowing who that someone may have been) and decides he wants to send a message deserve to die? I don't know. If the kid started the physical altercation, then he learned a lesson my dad taught me, but he learned it the hard way: Don't start something or say something to someone you just don't know. They might have a gun that is bigger than your muscles or mouth.

Everyone keeps calling this guy a wanna-be cop, etc. Keep in mind that these positions are created because of the lack of police. There is a lack of police because 1) Unions drive up salaries and benefits, and 2) Taxpayers don't want to pay more for it. The gated community hires these people to do a job...and that job is to keep the area safe and secure, and to report suspicious activity to the police. The police, on the other hand, don't want to get called everytime a window is open on a hot summer night or some resident's guest parked on the wrong side of the street. Thus the watchman, or security guard, need to have some sort of authority. The members of the gated community grant that authority when they move in, sometimes in the form of an extra fee to pay for the security, or by signing an agreement form/contract that they never read.

The person hosting the kid probably didn't make mention to anyone that they were having this kid as a guest. If THEY don't know, then how are they supposed to assertain that the kid had a right to be there?

People live in gated communities for a reason: To keep riffraff out.

Everyone rushed to judgement on this. I am to blame as well. I have since stepped back and decided to wait and see what the investigations and grand juries dig up. Until then, the media is just going to spin this into a frenzy.

The one thing I think we can ALL agree on is that ethical journalism is dead, and this particular story hammered the final nail in that coffin.

ConfusedAirman
03-28-2012, 03:04 PM
If anyone finds themselves surfing for Internet news reports, I suggest they include orlandosentinel dot com. This paper seems to make an effort to report factual information or question other questionable reporting. Two examples can be seen by the titles of two articles that are posted there now (but read the articles themselves):

1) "Trayvon rumors abound, but here are facts"

2) "Trayvon Martin: New photos, details spark online debate"

Luvnlife
03-28-2012, 03:05 PM
Here's one for Sharpton and Jackson to go and protest.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2117695/Brutal-home-invasion-Oklahoma-couple-ends-65-year-romance-meeting-blind-date.html

TJMAC77SP
03-28-2012, 03:24 PM
Is there a percentage of calls that have resulted in an arrest, particularly of non-residents of the community?

I don't know........and its irrelevant but I fugure you know that but don't have anything after your doubt over the his calls having any results was negated.

AGAIN for the cheap seats, I am in no way defending everything or even anything Zimmerman did because I (and you) don't KNOW what happened other than Zimmerman shot Martin and killed him.

All this talk of how many calls he made, how effective they were, what color shirt he was wearing....all mean nothing as it pertains directly to this case now. They may figure in some indirect way to paint the entire picture but taken out of context they are mere distractions and quite transparent at that.

I will repeat something I often say when the OJ Simpson case is discussed and in light of the similar bullshit that flowed from people at that time..........If it is racist to believe someone is guilty because they are black (and it is), it is equally racist to believe someone not-guilty (or in this case completely blameless) because they are black.

Let the FACTS come out. Not what Al Sharpton or Hannity spout but what is officially released as a result of an actual investigation.

Rusty Jones
03-28-2012, 03:30 PM
The problem with people like rusty and Joe. No matter how detailed an investigation happens how much they dig into it or gather all the air tight evidence they can find. If Zimmerman is found to be in the right........ Their argument will then shift to they must not have done it right or they are covering something up for Zimmerman and he still killed that poor innocent child (the 6 foot 3, 17 year old child) Trust me i have seen people on the internet liek those two for a long time now not matter what you say or how much they are proven wrong they do not care they are right and have gotten themselfs to deeply involved to back out and admit that they were wrong.

Guess we will just have to wait and see what an investigation reveals.

So in other words, you're saying that Team Zimmerman is right and Team Martin is wrong. Am I understanding this correctly?

Rusty Jones
03-28-2012, 03:40 PM
I don't know........and its irrelevant but I fugure you know that but don't have anything after your doubt over the his calls having any results was negated.

AGAIN for the cheap seats, I am in no way defending everything or even anything Zimmerman did because I (and you) don't KNOW what happened other than Zimmerman shot Martin and killed him.

All this talk of how many calls he made, how effective they were, what color shirt he was wearing....all mean nothing as it pertains directly to this case now. They may figure in some indirect way to paint the entire picture but taken out of context they are mere distractions and quite transparent at that.

I will repeat something I often say when the OJ Simpson case is discussed and in light of the similar bullshit that flowed from people at that time..........If it is racist to believe someone is guilty because they are black (and it is), it is equally racist to believe someone not-guilty (or in this case completely blameless) because they are black.

Let the FACTS come out. Not what Al Sharpton or Hannity spout but what is officially released as a result of an actual investigation.

I really didn't dig deep into the racial aspect of this, but I'll say this: it seems like people here want to keep repeating over and over again that Zimmerman is Hispanic, as if that's supposed to mean that he can't be racist. Meanwhile, these same people saying that will get pissed off at any claim or insinuation that minorities can't be racist, and that only whites can. Big self-contradiction.

I can see that you haven't been doing this yourself, but too many others here are, and it's pathetic.

But the reason I did bring up the percentage of calls that resulted in arrests, particular those of non-residents is because if there is a low percentage of calls that have resulted in arrests, then there could be an indication of paranoia.

The reason I specified non-residents is because, for all we know, the majority of those calls could be for things such as domestic violence or stealing cable - things that don't necessarily make a neighborhood "dangerous," and certainly things that an outsider isn't contributing to.

sandsjames
03-28-2012, 03:46 PM
So in other words, you're saying that Team Zimmerman is right and Team Martin is wrong. Am I understanding this correctly?

Not sure where he said that. I get that idea from this part of the statement: "Guess we will just have to wait and see what an investigation reveals" and "If Zimmerman is found to be in the right...". Maybe I'm taking it out of context, though. I'm not very bright.

HollomanMSgt
03-28-2012, 03:48 PM
You are not understanding it correctly. I said "IF" Zimmerman is found out to be correct in what he did and i also said we will have to wait and see what the investigation reveals. You will either in my opinion be vindicated in your thinking or not stop your argument if Zimmerman is vindicated. I could be wrong it remains to be seen. Somehow though "IF" Zimmerman is found out to have been justified in his actions i do not think we will see you in here saying.........

"darn guys i was wrong about the whole situation sorry about that"


So in other words, you're saying that Team Zimmerman is right and Team Martin is wrong. Am I understanding this correctly?

ConfusedAirman
03-28-2012, 04:14 PM
So in other words, you're saying that Team Zimmerman is right and Team Martin is wrong. Am I understanding this correctly?

If there were such teams, Team Martin would beat Team Zimm simply due to population size. I am only saying so because it sure seems there are a hell of a lot more people who somehow "know" Zimm murdered Martin in cold blood and deserves punishment than there are people who "know" Zimm shot Martin in self-defense. How about Team Truth - those of us who are willing to consider all sides before rushing to judgement?

sandsjames
03-28-2012, 04:16 PM
So a Walgreens in Florida was looted as a "protest" to what's going on with the case. Way to go guys. You showed them. That'll fix things.

poindexter
03-28-2012, 04:20 PM
So a Walgreens in Florida was looted as a "protest" to what's going on with the case. Way to go guys. You showed them. That'll fix things.

Yea, I read that too... I don't understand what that is supposed to prove....

ConfusedAirman
03-28-2012, 04:25 PM
So a Walgreens in Florida was looted as a "protest" to what's going on with the case. Way to go guys. You showed them. That'll fix things.


Long term fix if they stole condoms and birth control pills to prevent reproduction of idiots.

TJMAC77SP
03-28-2012, 04:33 PM
I really didn't dig deep into the racial aspect of this, but I'll say this: it seems like people here want to keep repeating over and over again that Zimmerman is Hispanic, as if that's supposed to mean that he can't be racist. Meanwhile, these same people saying that will get pissed off at any claim or insinuation that minorities can't be racist, and that only whites can. Big self-contradiction.

I can see that you haven't been doing this yourself, but too many others here are, and it's pathetic.

But the reason I did bring up the percentage of calls that resulted in arrests, particular those of non-residents is because if there is a low percentage of calls that have resulted in arrests, then there could be an indication of paranoia.

The reason I specified non-residents is because, for all we know, the majority of those calls could be for things such as domestic violence or stealing cable - things that don't necessarily make a neighborhood "dangerous," and certainly things that an outsider isn't contributing to.

These forums like life in general are full of all sorts of people.

Race entered this situation immediately and has stayed there. For some (Sharpton and crowd) it is their livelihood, for some it is an anathema that anything negative could happen to a person of color unless racism is present. For some the exact opposite, that the people of color are always the perpetrator. And for some, I like to consider myself among them, the best approach is to digest the facts (repeat facts) as they develop, judge their relevance and verisimilitude.

As an example of how far some would try to influence the story and outcome, some media outlets have begun calling Zimmerman a White Hispanic. Please find me another time that label has been used. Its use is so obvious in its motivation as to be laughable.


I rail against those that would perpetuate this egregiously flawed logic.

Luvnlife
03-28-2012, 04:33 PM
Long term fix if they stole condoms and birth control pills to prevent reproduction of idiots.

Even scarier that they may vote too.

Banned
03-28-2012, 04:36 PM
Can always count on the weapons folk...Your error is playing right into the other side of the argument. Classic.

And that is EXACTLY why I call BS on Zimmerman's sob story about the scary thuggish black kid. These idiots are so paranoid and messed up in the head, this kind of "logic" actually makes sense to them.

Bottom line of this thread:

You have the right to self defense. But that doesn't mean you can go pick fights with people, and then shoot them if they kick your ass. That's not how it works.

TJMAC77SP
03-28-2012, 04:49 PM
And that is EXACTLY why I call BS on Zimmerman's sob story about the scary thuggish black kid. These idiots are so paranoid and messed up in the head, this kind of "logic" actually makes sense to them.

Bottom line of this thread:

You have the right to self defense. But that doesn't mean you can go pick fights with people, and then shoot them if they kick your ass. That's not how it works.


What facts support your calling 'BS on Zimmerman's sob story'? Is it a gut feeling? I mean, I get that. I often rely on my gut in situations where I don't know all the facts but I am usually a little more contemplative before I start throwing the Idiot moniker around. It might come back and bite me in the ass if it turns out my gut was wrong.

The Sanford PD has stated that the evidence substantiates most of Zimmerman's story. Now I realize the quick and often retort would be that they are an inept and corrupt organization (like the FBI) but what facts would support that assertion? Damn facts. It keeps coming back to that.


So is that now what you are saying occurred? Zimmerman picked a fight with Martin and got his ass kicked and then Zimmerman shot him?

Banned
03-28-2012, 04:51 PM
So the bottom line of this is that the ‘tardiness’ was a lie. Therefore anything they say has to be suspect. I believe that was my point.


I wouldn't consider the parents to necessarily be a neutral source to begin with. But then - their testimony isn't relevant to the crime. And yes, try and dress it up all you like, but a crime was committed. At best manslaughter. At worst, first degree murder.



Sorry to hear about the English problems. Bottom line is he was advised and chose to ignore that advice.

And hopefully will pay the price for it.


Who was speaking of a war zone?

From your post, talking about detaining and searching people... which I interpreted to be about your war experience. And while I see where you're coming from, there's a difference between there, and here.



I can’t however argue your impression of some gun owners. Seems they are sometimes a little too eager to use the weapon.

I am also sorry about your cultural guilt.

What cultural guilt? I don't feel guilty - but I am appalled that someone is gunned down in the street, and the police do nothing.



You just can’t help yourself can you? If I am opposed to something you have said then I must be DEFENDING the other position. The only thing I am ‘leaping’ to defend (as usual) is the truth.

So what are you "opposed to" here? Actually investigating and prosecuting an obvious crime?



I had not heard that Zimmerman made a ‘half dozen’ 911 calls. Where did you get that?

From the news article... his repeated frantic calls to 911 while he was stalking Martin...?



Really? You can do better than that. You mentioned his age like that would automatically make someone Zimmerman’s age and size an advantage in a physical confrontation. A silly assumption given Martin’s size. Simple statement of facts.[/QUOTE]

My point, which you apparently missed, is that Zimmerman is a prejudiced idiot.

Rusty Jones
03-28-2012, 04:57 PM
You are not understanding it correctly. I said "IF" Zimmerman is found out to be correct in what he did and i also said we will have to wait and see what the investigation reveals. You will either in my opinion be vindicated in your thinking or not stop your argument if Zimmerman is vindicated. I could be wrong it remains to be seen. Somehow though "IF" Zimmerman is found out to have been justified in his actions i do not think we will see you in here saying.........

"darn guys i was wrong about the whole situation sorry about that"

Okay, I'm trying to go somewhere with this: is this based on me speaking for Travyon as the black person involved, or is this based on me speaking for him as the alleged victim?

Banned
03-28-2012, 04:59 PM
What facts support your calling 'BS on Zimmerman's sob story'? Is it a gut feeling? I mean, I get that. I often rely on my gut in situations where I don't know all the facts but I am usually a little more contemplative before I start throwing the Idiot moniker around. It might come back and bite me in the ass if it turns out my gut was wrong.

When I see a neighborhood snitch captain who makes 46 911 calls, from a neighborhood that collectively has made over 400 911 calls in a short period of time - that suggests a group of prejudiced, scared little people. Which is fine, except when scared little people have guns... they start shooting.


The Sanford PD has stated that the evidence substantiates most of Zimmerman's story. Now I realize the quick and often retort would be that they are an inept and corrupt organization (like the FBI) but what facts would support that assertion? Damn facts. It keeps coming back to that.

There isn't much to Zimmerman's story, except he saw a black kid, stalked him... the part where the facts are fuzzy is when Martin supposedly snuck up and attacked Zimmerman from behind unprovoked... which makes zero sense. Why would he do that?

And this is why I raised my point about the patriot act - when it comes to Muslims, black people, etc - there's no need to provide a motivation. Why did he do it? Because he was "bad", and that's all the explanation needed apparently.


So is that now what you are saying occurred? Zimmerman picked a fight with Martin and got his ass kicked and then Zimmerman shot him?

As you yourself admitted, he was ADVISED to back off by the 911 operator, and chose to ignore that advice and further escalate the situation.

Now, resisting your urge to find the "truth"... if you were approached by a hostile armed man of a different race... what would your reaction be? Odds are, I bet your "fight or flight" instinct would kick in.

HollomanMSgt
03-28-2012, 05:10 PM
I would say it is based on the context of your postings which seem to be biased towards one side. I got no dog in the show and think that when it all comes out in the end after investigations and such that you got to try to trust those who performed these things and move on with your life and your opinions no matter what side ends up being vindicated.



Okay, I'm trying to go somewhere with this: is this based on me speaking for Travyon as the black person involved, or is this based on me speaking for him as the alleged victim?

DWWSWWD
03-28-2012, 05:10 PM
If there were such teams, Team Martin would beat Team Zimm While it would appear that Team Martin has a great left hook, Team Zimm has guns.

Rusty Jones
03-28-2012, 05:12 PM
While it would appear that Team Martin has a great left hook, Team Zimm has guns.

Team Zimmerman can't fight with their hands, that's why.

Rusty Jones
03-28-2012, 05:14 PM
I would say it is base on the context of your postings which seem to be biased towards one side. I got no dog in the show and think that whn it all comes out in the end after investigations and such that you got to try to trust those who performed these things and move on with your life and your opinions.

And what do you think my bias is based on? Hell, it doesn't matter because either way, if the OJ Case is any indication of whether or not people will accept the outcome as determined in the court of law; then the OPPOSITE of what you're saying will be true.

TJMAC77SP
03-28-2012, 05:14 PM
I wouldn't consider the parents to necessarily be a neutral source to begin with. But then - their testimony isn't relevant to the crime. And yes, try and dress it up all you like, but a crime was committed. At best manslaughter. At worst, first degree murder.

And I have SAID exactly that. It is relevant to the picture of Martin which they have painted and which is coloring people’s opinion. That is relevant to the situation in general, as evidenced by the drivel in the media (and on this forum).

I didn’t even stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night so I am not qualified to say whether a violation of Florida law occurred. I thought you were in art school in California. Did I miss something?




And hopefully will pay the price for it.

Well, I will admit it is a safe bet that today he wishes he had taken the advice but that hardly makes it a crime which you have not so eloquently stated.


From your post, talking about detaining and searching people... which I interpreted to be about your war experience. And while I see where you're coming from, there's a difference between there, and here.

Well, I have done exactly what you described as the behavior of a ‘cowardly little bitch’. I find this to be typical of your rhetoric.


What cultural guilt? I don't feel guilty - but I am appalled that someone is gunned down in the street, and the police do nothing.


And you are perpetuating a myth. Whether through ignorance or in an effort to support your agenda I don’t know. The cops did everything they were supposed to that night. They secured evidence and the crime scene, they interviewed witnesses. They conferred with the DA who agreed that an arrest was not warranted at that time. What else would YOU suggest they do? Arrest someone without probably cause?

You and others who are screaming about the lack of arrest act like it’s a one shot deal, either you arrest someone at the scene or they get away with it. Hell, they could choose to arrest this guy at anytime from now until he dies.


So what are you "opposed to" here? Actually investigating and prosecuting an obvious crime?

I am opposed to you (and others jumping to conclusions about Zimmerman's 'guilt' and to those jumping to conclusions that Martin is some young gangsta who caused his own death.

I repeat my previous comment about ‘knowing’ whether or not a crime has been committed here. A tragedy occurred without a doubt. Not all tragedies are criminal.



From the news article... his repeated frantic calls to 911 while he was stalking Martin...?

Really, repeated ‘frantic’ calls. How many did he make? (Serious question, I have heard of only one call made by Zimmerman).


My point, which you apparently missed, is that Zimmerman is a prejudiced idiot.

And my point which you didn’t miss is that is that your ‘point’ and opinion is unsupported by your statement concerning the age and size of Martin.

HollomanMSgt
03-28-2012, 05:22 PM
I do not know i am just reading what you post and it seems your are swinging towards one side of the story. You were not there niether was i i would like to hope and think that i trust the people who were elected to do their jobs to do it in a proper manner and i would also like to think that when the investigation is concluded that people will move on. One of two things will happen here. Trayvon will be vindicated and Zimmerman will serve time for his crime or Zimmerman will be vindicated and a bunch of people will loot and break things because they are unhappy with what just occured. In the end no one will win.



And what do you think my bias is based on? Hell, it doesn't matter because either way, if the OJ Case is any indication of whether or not people will accept the outcome as determined in the court of law; then the OPPOSITE of what you're saying will be true.

Rusty Jones
03-28-2012, 05:26 PM
I do not know i am just reading what you post and it seems your are swinging towards one side of the story. You were not there niether was i i would like to hope and think that i trust the people who were elected to do their jobs to do it in a proper manner and i would also like to think that when the investigation is concluded that people will move on. One of two things will happen here. Trayvon will be vindicated and Zimmerman will serve time for his crime or Zimmerman will be vindicated and a bunch of people will loot and break things because they are unhappy with what just occured. In the end no one will win.

You mean like all the big riots and looting that swept the nation after Troy Davis was executed? Please, spare me the bullshit!

HollomanMSgt
03-28-2012, 05:30 PM
You now after that comment seem to be waayyy to emtionally involved in this debate to be able to have a rational disscusion.



You mean like all the big riots and looting that swept the nation after Troy Davis was executed? Please, spare me the bullshit!

Rusty Jones
03-28-2012, 05:33 PM
You now after that comment seem to be waayyy to emtionally involved in this debate to be able to have a rational disscusion.

Hardly. Not about the case; not about Travyon or Zimmerman.

What's bothering me is the fact that you are attacking the character of those who are advocating a particular side of the case. THAT is the problem - saying that they're going to "riot" and "loot" and all that.

SomeRandomGuy
03-28-2012, 05:33 PM
Do we have any civilian law enforcement officers on this thread? I have a question that will surely be unpopular among the people trying to call Zimmerman a racist.

In the course of a cop's duties they learn to detect certain behaviors which may alert them that a crime has been committed or may possibly be committed. Regardless of the race, age, or gender of the person involved these bahaviors can literally save lives and stop crimes. Some examples of behavior that is likely to draw the attention of a cop. Driving at a slower speed then the posted speed limit late at night (possible drunk driver). Someone who ducks into the shadows when they notice a cop (if you are not doing anything wrong why are you hiding). Someone who appears to be out of place or does not seem to know where they are going late at night.

In any one of these situations a law enforcement officer (yes I realie Zimmerman is not a cop) is likely going to engage the suspect and see if a crime has in fact been committed. If I had mentioned race in any of my examples people would have called it racial profiling. Law enforcement does involve a certain amount of legal profiiling. If you are not doing anything wrong there should not be a problem answering a question about why you are walking through a neighborhood or where you are headed. Based on the 911 phone calls (one of the few pices of actual evidence that is avaliable and unbiased) we know that Martin ran away from Zimmerman at one point. I can honestly say I would have done the same thing. The difference is though that if I felt I was in danger I would called 911 and alerted the police that a suspicious stranger is following me. 911 phone calls work both ways. If I had ended up in a verbal confrontation with said person later I would not have punched him in the nose. I would have simply explained I was walking home and told him wheer I am headed. Problem solved! Why was it so hard for Martin to simply be the bigger man and walk away from this situation. Its not like Zimmerman shot him right away. He only shot him after a physical altercation happenend. Im not trying to say everything Zimmerman did was right (nobody is) but Martin is accountable for his actions that night too.

Banned
03-28-2012, 05:35 PM
And I have SAID exactly that. It is relevant to the picture of Martin which they have painted and which is coloring people’s opinion. That is relevant to the situation in general, as evidenced by the drivel in the media (and on this forum).

There's always the possibility of a mistake - but as of now - the case seems to be pretty clear cut. Captain Snitch saw a black guy, freaked out, grabbed his gun, started an unnecessary confrontation, and now a 17 year old kid is dead.


I didn’t even stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night so I am not qualified to say whether a violation of Florida law occurred. I thought you were in art school in California. Did I miss something?

Common sense. I would hope if I was murdered out on the street, the shooter wouldn't walk because I had my hoodie on.



Well, I will admit it is a safe bet that today he wishes he had taken the advice but that hardly makes it a crime which you have not so eloquently stated.

Human nature. He was probably so pleased with himself when he squeezed the trigger. A petty little man getting a thrill off of his power trip.



Well, I have done exactly what you described as the behavior of a ‘cowardly little bitch’. I find this to be typical of your rhetoric.

...in a combat zone, or here, against another American? There is absolute zero justification for Zimmerman to have opened fire. There is simply no excuse. He went into the situation gun drawn - shooting was a first resort for him, not a last one


And you are perpetuating a myth. Whether through ignorance or in an effort to support your agenda I don’t know. The cops did everything they were supposed to that night. They secured evidence and the crime scene, they interviewed witnesses. They conferred with the DA who agreed that an arrest was not warranted at that time. What else would YOU suggest they do? Arrest someone without probably cause?

And that's why so many people are pissed off about this. If the criminal had been black, and the victim white... can you honestly say they would've reached the same decision?


You and others who are screaming about the lack of arrest act like it’s a one shot deal, either you arrest someone at the scene or they get away with it. Hell, they could choose to arrest this guy at anytime from now until he dies.

True. He can still be arrested, and hopefully he will.

Incidentally, since Martin's school record is so incredibly relevant to the case - it should interest you to know that Zimmerman has been arrested before - once for assaulting a cop, and the other for domestic violence. With 20/20 hindsight, it was a bad idea to let this dickhead run around the neighborhood with a gun.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57405716-504083/trayvon-martin-lead-investigator-wanted-george-zimmerman-arrested-the-

I am opposed to you (and others jumping to conclusions about Zimmerman's 'guilt' and to those jumping to conclusions that Martin is some young gangsta who caused his own death.


I repeat my previous comment about ‘knowing’ whether or not a crime has been committed here. A tragedy occurred without a doubt. Not all tragedies are criminal.

Really, repeated ‘frantic’ calls. How many did he make? (Serious question, I have heard of only one call made by Zimmerman).

And my point which you didn’t miss is that is that your ‘point’ and opinion is unsupported by your statement concerning the age and size of Martin.

I stand corrected. Out of the 7 calls, 6 were from neighbors, I oringally read it as "Zimmerman making 7 calls"

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/19/us/911-tapes-released-in-killing-of-florida-teenager.html

Now about that 911 call - does this sound like a lucid reasonable person who should be carrying a gun?

“This guy looks like he’s up to no good or on drugs or something,” Mr. Zimmerman told dispatch, in his initial call. “It’s raining and he’s just walking around, looking about.” Mr. Zimmerman continued: “He’s here now just looking at all the houses. Now he’s just staring at me.” Then he added a second later: “He’s coming to check me out. He’s got something in his hands. I don’t know what his deal is. Can you get an officer over here?”

Then he got out of the car with his licensed 9-millimeter pistol, and a worried dispatcher asked: “Are you following him? O.K., you don’t need to do that.”

At that point, Trayvon ran, and Mr. Zimmerman continued to follow. The dispatcher told him to wait for the police. A suggestion was made that Mr. Zimmerman and the police should meet by a mailbox. But then Mr. Zimmerman changed his mind. “Actually, could you have him call me and I’ll tell him where I’m at.”

sandsjames
03-28-2012, 05:35 PM
And that is EXACTLY why I call BS on Zimmerman's sob story about the scary thuggish black kid.


You don't think it's possible, at all, that his sob story is about a suspicious looking kid who, after all is said and done, happened to be black? Or are you stuck to the idea that this happened because Martin was black?

Greg
03-28-2012, 05:35 PM
Yeah, don't care about that one either, now or when I was 2 (in 87).

A quick comparison between the two, besides the unfortunate loss of life, is the quick rush to judgement before all the facts were made known. I know I just threw it out there real quick with no explanation but I was on the way to class and didn't realize the time.

At age two, scarlettGTO was probably busy training the family pet to sit-up, roll-over, shake and beg for a treat.