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View Full Version : My Co-ed Locker Room experience... I'm tired of living a lie!



Sunshine52
09-21-2011, 09:05 PM
Funny thing happened to me at the gym today...

When I (a male) went into the female locker rooms to shower several of the women in the locker room got upset. Seems they felt uncomfortable with a heterosexual in the same locker room as them potentially watching them undress. I tried to explain to them that I had no intention of oogling them, made no overt signs of interest, I was a professional, and they needed to be professional about it too. Besides, seperate but equal showering, billeting and bathroom facilities smacked of segregation and we know how terrible that is. Can you image the cost and logistical nightmare if we had to create seperate living and bathroom facilities for every gender?

For some reason, I still can't explain why, I was asked to leave by the women and the gym staff. I guess all those women and the gym staff are heterophobes and haters.

I pray for the day when I can shower, bathe and serve with heterosexuals of both genders without fear of discrimination, hate and potential discharge from the military. I'm tired of having to live this secret life. :pray

WALLY3430
09-21-2011, 09:22 PM
I second that sunshine. It's only "fair" that males and females shall shower together---seems to be the leaning of this great AF anyway....

29Husker
09-21-2011, 09:54 PM
This post really made my day. Thannks!

MACHINE666
09-21-2011, 10:08 PM
Funny thing happened to me at the gym today...

When I (a male) went into the female locker rooms to shower several of the women in the locker room got upset. Seems they felt uncomfortable with a heterosexual in the same locker room as them potentially watching them undress. I tried to explain to them that I had no intention of oogling them, made no overt signs of interest, I was a professional, and they needed to be professional about it too. Besides, seperate but equal showering, billeting and bathroom facilities smacked of segregation and we know how terrible that is. Can you image the cost and logistical nightmare if we had to create seperate living and bathroom facilities for every gender?

For some reason, I still can't explain why, I was asked to leave by the women and the gym staff. I guess all those women and the gym staff are heterophobes and haters.

I pray for the day when I can shower, bathe and serve with heterosexuals of both genders without fear of discrimination, hate and potential discharge from the military. I'm tired of having to live this secret life. :pray

Maybe that's why they got so upset....because you weren't rising to the occasion!

:D :D :D :D :D

WeTheSheeple
09-21-2011, 10:25 PM
As a gay man I'd have no problem with co-ed showers. Neither would the lesbians. So go ahead and fight for that if you want.

MACHINE666
09-21-2011, 10:30 PM
Uhm, no Rosie O'Donnell type lesbians please, and you've got yourself a deal!!!

:D :D :D :D :D

Sunshine52
09-22-2011, 03:20 AM
As a gay man I'd have no problem with co-ed showers. Neither would the lesbians. So go ahead and fight for that if you want.

The issue isn't that gay men or lesbian women wouldn't have a problem with co-ed showers, it's that heterosexual women would. Heterosexual men are told to just "suck it up" if they have to shower, bathe, undress, billet with gay men, but we as an institution go to all measures to ensure women don't have to "suck it up". It is a policy that is clearly unequal and unfair.

So why is one discriminatory policy OK and not the other? Why isn't there a hue and cry from the ACLU suing the DoD to stop this injustice? Where is the media interviewing men who just want the right to use public facilities like everyone else. Where is the Military Times reporter questioning the SecDef on the huge waste in money and materials building seperate gender specific facilities. Where is the civil rights leader proclaiming that seperate but equal is a slap in the face to the sacrifices of the great MLK?

Because liberal hypocricy is OK if it's directed against heterosexual men.

Fundamentally an unequal policy, (i.e forcing heterosexuals to "suck it up" about living with gays), is a flawed policy.

imported_Parn
09-22-2011, 03:25 AM
Yeah man, heterosexual men are totally being oppressed by not being able to see boobs and vaginas in the showers.

And to think, some people were worried about gays turning the military into a bunch of quivering crybabies.

SailorDave
09-22-2011, 03:28 AM
You should have told them you were a lesbian trapped in a man's body.

garhkal
09-22-2011, 04:19 AM
Or said "Its ok, i am gay"

MACHINE666
09-22-2011, 10:51 AM
The issue isn't that gay men or lesbian women wouldn't have a problem with co-ed showers, it's that heterosexual women would. Heterosexual men are told to just "suck it up" if they have to shower, bathe, undress, billet with gay men, but we as an institution go to all measures to ensure women don't have to "suck it up". It is a policy that is clearly unequal and unfair.

So why is one discriminatory policy OK and not the other? Why isn't there a hue and cry from the ACLU suing the DoD to stop this injustice? Where is the media interviewing men who just want the right to use public facilities like everyone else. Where is the Military Times reporter questioning the SecDef on the huge waste in money and materials building seperate gender specific facilities. Where is the civil rights leader proclaiming that seperate but equal is a slap in the face to the sacrifices of the great MLK?

Because liberal hypocricy is OK if it's directed against heterosexual men.

Fundamentally an unequal policy, (i.e forcing heterosexuals to "suck it up" about living with gays), is a flawed policy.

I completely agree! All joking aside, I too have noticed that our institutionalized way of thinking allows for more lee-way when it comes to women than it comes to men....even the whole SARC debacle is aimed to make men out like they are all perpetrators who are awaiting to be caught. Any such talk of a more common-sensed approach to what I call "universal rights" is something our archaic system is still behind the power curve on. I honestly think it will take another act of Congress (and a Libertarian President) to make the military truly equal.

BULLITT
09-22-2011, 04:42 PM
Funny thing happened to me at the gym today...

When I (a male) went into the female locker rooms to shower several of the women in the locker room got upset. Seems they felt uncomfortable with a heterosexual in the same locker room as them potentially watching them undress. I tried to explain to them that I had no intention of oogling them, made no overt signs of interest, I was a professional, and they needed to be professional about it too. Besides, seperate but equal showering, billeting and bathroom facilities smacked of segregation and we know how terrible that is. Can you image the cost and logistical nightmare if we had to create seperate living and bathroom facilities for every gender?

For some reason, I still can't explain why, I was asked to leave by the women and the gym staff. I guess all those women and the gym staff are heterophobes and haters.

I pray for the day when I can shower, bathe and serve with heterosexuals of both genders without fear of discrimination, hate and potential discharge from the military. I'm tired of having to live this secret life. :pray

A most excellent post! I've been saying exactly this for quite some time. Amazing how hetero's are labeled as "homophobes", but when women don't want guys in their showers/restrooms/dorm rooms, they're not a "heterophobe".

garhkal
09-22-2011, 09:56 PM
New word of the day. Hetrophobe!

FixItWithAMod
09-24-2011, 12:22 AM
Even the most insipid individuals such as Sunshine and Bullitt have showered next to homosexual men in the locker rooms, and didn't know it. In fact, straight men look just like gay men, and gay men look just like straight men.

Perhaps, OP, that the women in the locker room were disgusted at your shriveled excuse for a male appendage.

Banned
09-24-2011, 03:24 AM
Funny thing happened to me at the gym today...

When I (a male) went into the female locker rooms to shower several of the women in the locker room got upset. Seems they felt uncomfortable with a heterosexual in the same locker room as them potentially watching them undress. I tried to explain to them that I had no intention of oogling them, made no overt signs of interest, I was a professional, and they needed to be professional about it too. Besides, seperate but equal showering, billeting and bathroom facilities smacked of segregation and we know how terrible that is. Can you image the cost and logistical nightmare if we had to create seperate living and bathroom facilities for every gender?

For some reason, I still can't explain why, I was asked to leave by the women and the gym staff. I guess all those women and the gym staff are heterophobes and haters.

I pray for the day when I can shower, bathe and serve with heterosexuals of both genders without fear of discrimination, hate and potential discharge from the military. I'm tired of having to live this secret life. :pray

Apparently nobody has asked this question, so I'll ask it... ahem... are you a cross-dresser?


Yeah man, heterosexual men are totally being oppressed by not being able to see boobs and vaginas in the showers.

And to think, some people were worried about gays turning the military into a bunch of quivering crybabies.

Its completely outrageous that if I want to see boobs and vagina I either have to go to a strip club and pay them, or convince a girl to have sex with me. Or if that fails pay her to do it too. :p


The issue isn't that gay men or lesbian women wouldn't have a problem with co-ed showers, it's that heterosexual women would. Heterosexual men are told to just "suck it up" if they have to shower, bathe, undress, billet with gay men, but we as an institution go to all measures to ensure women don't have to "suck it up". It is a policy that is clearly unequal and unfair.

So why is one discriminatory policy OK and not the other? Why isn't there a hue and cry from the ACLU suing the DoD to stop this injustice? Where is the media interviewing men who just want the right to use public facilities like everyone else. Where is the Military Times reporter questioning the SecDef on the huge waste in money and materials building seperate gender specific facilities. Where is the civil rights leader proclaiming that seperate but equal is a slap in the face to the sacrifices of the great MLK?

Because liberal hypocricy is OK if it's directed against heterosexual men.

Fundamentally an unequal policy, (i.e forcing heterosexuals to "suck it up" about living with gays), is a flawed policy.

Liberals are NOT hypocrites. In fact, as an ACLU donator, I'll pick up the phone and inform them immediately that they need to take this case. Think of the potential legislation! I think we should call it "The Viewing of Boobs and Vagina Freedom Act".

imported_Sgt HULK
09-25-2011, 05:35 AM
great thread, you will also never have a serious answer. i asked this same question last yr,.

I even asked it at a commanders call. All you will get is tripping over uh hmmm haaahhs blah blah

no response,

even better are deployed environments where folks are losing stripes over being in same room with opposite sex but the homo's both men and women are F'ing their brains off now LOL

ibhate

soular
09-25-2011, 07:56 AM
So silly...

Banned
09-25-2011, 05:23 PM
Oh God gays are so scary, I'm going up to my barracks room with my potentially gay roommate for a good cry.

imported_Seasons
09-27-2011, 05:09 PM
Are idiots still seriously arguing this?

Look, if you want a starship troopers setup, fix the childishness of the vast majority of the population.

DarkHeart
09-27-2011, 05:31 PM
This is probably the stupidest and most poignant question raised by the DADT debate.

Its stupid because straights have been showering with gays FOR EVER. That DADT is gone changes absolutly nothing except now straights have the ability to avoid gays in the shower if they are that bothered by it. Aparently male heterosexuals suffer from some form of mental retardation when it comes to bathing. Once in the shower they lose all common sense and can not, for the life of them, seem to figure out that they don't have to be naked at the same time as someone else. Wierd.

Its poignant because if we were a more evolved society, communal showers would be the norm and the naked human form wouldn't be something to be ashamed of and hidden. But this goes quickly back to stupidity because some straight men insist on demonstrating how ignorant and perverted they are. Their arguments aren't born of an enlightened world view where nakedness is no longer sinonomous with shame, they're born of their desire to be letcherous dirt bags who have a serious misconseption of homosexuals' ability to behave professionaly. Way to think with your dicks, asshats.

Measure Man
09-27-2011, 08:16 PM
great thread, you will also never have a serious answer. i asked this same question last yr,.

I even asked it at a commanders call. All you will get is tripping over uh hmmm haaahhs blah blah

no response,

Bull...it's been answered many times.

AJBIGJ
09-27-2011, 08:49 PM
Societal norm, not to protect against ogling, sexual assault, and rape, it never was. Why do people fail to make this distinction?

Matai
09-27-2011, 09:23 PM
This is probably the stupidest and most poignant question raised by the DADT debate.

Its stupid because straights have been showering with gays FOR EVER. That DADT is gone changes absolutly nothing except now straights have the ability to avoid gays in the shower if they are that bothered by it. Aparently male heterosexuals suffer from some form of mental retardation when it comes to bathing. Once in the shower they lose all common sense and can not, for the life of them, seem to figure out that they don't have to be naked at the same time as someone else. Wierd.

Its poignant because if we were a more evolved society, communal showers would be the norm and the naked human form wouldn't be something to be ashamed of and hidden. But this goes quickly back to stupidity because some straight men insist on demonstrating how ignorant and perverted they are. Their arguments aren't born of an enlightened world view where nakedness is no longer sinonomous with shame, they're born of their desire to be letcherous dirt bags who have a serious misconseption of homosexuals' ability to behave professionaly. Way to think with your dicks, asshats.

Fine, you're right...straights have been showering with gays FOR EVER. Point in your favor. That being said...gays have been banned from the military for ever, short of lying about it. They just let them in with the DADT repeal. Changes happen. Why can't we accept that while things are perfect, some of the issues being brought up are completely legit. You claim that homosexuals can behave professionally while showering with their preferred sexual partners (no this doesn't mean every gay man will suddenly want to have sex with every man in the shower), why is it you can't say the same thing about heterosexuals showering with their preferred sexual partners?? Why aren't those equal? You claim that hetero's just want to be lecherous dirt bags. While I'm sure there are some who would be, the same can be said of gay men.

While this isn't "Starship Troopers" and won't be for a very long time I'm sure, sometimes it takes changing the rules and allowing people to adapt to the new rules before people get used to them.

If you want equality, demand it in all aspects. Not just the ones you favor.

WeTheSheeple
09-27-2011, 09:47 PM
Fine, you're right...straights have been showering with gays FOR EVER. Point in your favor. That being said...gays have been banned from the military for ever, short of lying about it. They just let them in with the DADT repeal. Changes happen. Why can't we accept that while things are perfect, some of the issues being brought up are completely legit. You claim that homosexuals can behave professionally while showering with their preferred sexual partners (no this doesn't mean every gay man will suddenly want to have sex with every man in the shower), why is it you can't say the same thing about heterosexuals showering with their preferred sexual partners?? Why aren't those equal? You claim that hetero's just want to be lecherous dirt bags. While I'm sure there are some who would be, the same can be said of gay men.

While this isn't "Starship Troopers" and won't be for a very long time I'm sure, sometimes it takes changing the rules and allowing people to adapt to the new rules before people get used to them.

If you want equality, demand it in all aspects. Not just the ones you favor.

Absolutely nothing is preventing you from trying to change military policy to allow men & women to shower together. As a gay man I have no problem with that. I also think all bathrooms should be unisex as well. What difference does it make if you're crapping next to a man or a woman?

Matai
09-27-2011, 09:57 PM
We'd probably save money if all facilities were "open" to one and all. Just takes getting used to.

DarkHeart
09-27-2011, 10:03 PM
Fine, you're right...straights have been showering with gays FOR EVER. Point in your favor. That being said...gays have been banned from the military for ever, short of lying about it. They just let them in with the DADT repeal. Changes happen. Why can't we accept that while things are perfect, some of the issues being brought up are completely legit. You claim that homosexuals can behave professionally while showering with their preferred sexual partners (no this doesn't mean every gay man will suddenly want to have sex with every man in the shower), why is it you can't say the same thing about heterosexuals showering with their preferred sexual partners?? Why aren't those equal? You claim that hetero's just want to be lecherous dirt bags. While I'm sure there are some who would be, the same can be said of gay men.

While this isn't "Starship Troopers" and won't be for a very long time I'm sure, sometimes it takes changing the rules and allowing people to adapt to the new rules before people get used to them.

If you want equality, demand it in all aspects. Not just the ones you favor.

I do support co-ed showers. I just don't think all the straight men on this thread actually support it for the right reasons. They think they should have the equal right to look at what they find sexually attractive. They don't and they are dirt bags. I don't have the right to look at your junk in the shower either. Eyes forward, get clean, and get out. If someone is leering at you in the shower, sort of like how some straight leer at females regardless of their current dress, that is sexual harassment and you should go tell someone up your chain of command.

garhkal
09-27-2011, 10:43 PM
Neither do i feel a majority would want it for the right reasons.

DarkHeart
09-28-2011, 11:58 AM
Neither do i feel a majority would want it for the right reasons.

Then they need to stop prefecing their arguments with "well if gays get to shower with their perfered sexual partners why can't straights shower with the the oposite sex?" They sound like idiots and lose all credibility.

TJMAC77SP
09-28-2011, 12:12 PM
Perhaps the statements about straights showering with the opposite sex is more an illustrative devil's advocate observation. I for one don't want to shower with the opposite sex (as a group....one on one is always ok). However, I see these remarks as thought provoking and illustrating other issues which some seem to want to pretend aren't there.

No offense to our gay posters but I think much too much credit is being given with the assumption that a gay person would not engage in gawking etc but that a straight person would. I think most straight men would do everything they could to NOT look but would 'sneak' looks because it is in part biology. You may not like it but it is biology.

Now........why is my assertion any less valid than anyone else's?

I have said it before and will repeat it. This situation is far more complicated than some would like to believe. As other posters have stated.....it will take time and patience on the part of ALL to bring this back to normal.

On another thread there was discussion of the spouses of same-sex couples when the military member is deployed and how much support they would receive. I thought of the organizations like the Army's FRG and would hope that these groups will embrace these spouses (or even significant others as I hope they do with the SOs of unmarried man-woman couples). I don't think we will see it widespread this year but perhaps soon.

It is complicated. Sometimes life is just too complicated for 'tearing the band-aid off'.

Pullinteeth
09-28-2011, 12:30 PM
To the OP...grow up. You have been living under the same rules for whatever portion of the last 16 years that you have been in. The DoD decided that the same rules that apply in the civilian sector apply in the military. These rules are based on GENDER not seuxal preference...you don't like it, do something to change it. However this issue has nothing to do with the repeal of DADT.


On another thread there was discussion of the spouses of same-sex couples when the military member is deployed and how much support they would receive. I thought of the organizations like the Army's FRG and would hope that these groups will embrace these spouses (or even significant others as I hope they do with the SOs of unmarried man-woman couples). I don't think we will see it widespread this year but perhaps soon.

They get nothing because they are authorized nothing. They aren't married in the eyes of the DoD and thus are not eligible to participate. They don't do shyte for boyfriends/girlfriends either... I guess if they were pushy enough and had an ID card, maybe they could weasel their way into the group but other than that....

DarkHeart
09-28-2011, 12:40 PM
Perhaps the statements about straights showering with the opposite sex is more an illustrative devil's advocate observation. I for one don't want to shower with the opposite sex (as a group....one on one is always ok). However, I see these remarks as thought provoking and illustrating other issues which some seem to want to pretend aren't there.

No offense to our gay posters but I think much too much credit is being given with the assumption that a gay person would not engage in gawking etc but that a straight person would. I think most straight men would do everything they could to NOT look but would 'sneak' looks because it is in part biology. You may not like it but it is biology.


I think there's a big difference between gawking and "sneaking a peak." Everyone looks. Its gawking that's inappropriate. In my opinion, from the tone of some posts, it sounds like the poster wants to engage in gawking because thats what he thinks gays are doing. I don't think straights are like this at all, unless they are teenagers, I do think that posters who make the shower argument are more prone to gawking as it seems they can't get sex off their minds.

Pullinteeth
09-28-2011, 12:50 PM
I think there's a big difference between gawking and "sneaking a peak." Everyone looks. Its gawking that's inappropriate. In my opinion, from the tone of some posts, it sounds like the poster wants to engage in gawking because thats what he thinks gays are doing. I don't think straights are like this at all, unless they are teenagers, I do think that posters who make the shower argument are more prone to gawking as it seems they can't get sex off their minds.

I'm sorry....what did you say? I was thinking about sex... Wait. What? mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmsex....

imported_WILDJOKER5
09-28-2011, 12:53 PM
even better are deployed environments where folks are losing stripes over being in same room with opposite sex but the homo's both men and women are F'ing their brains off now LOL
ibhateWonder how many pregnancies have occured from those F' sessions and the pregnant person had to leave the theater leaving their team one person short? I bet the gays are having an alarming pregnancy break right now.

DarkHeart
09-28-2011, 01:01 PM
Wonder how many pregnancies have occured from those F' sessions and the pregnant person had to leave the theater leaving their team one person short? I bet the gays are having an alarming pregnancy break right now.

I think Sgt HULK's point was that straights don't know how to not get caught. Maybe gays make better Operators, cause they're sneakier.

Your_Name_Here
09-28-2011, 01:28 PM
I say if you're a guy who absolutely MUST shower with females in the female shower/latrine facility, it's simple: GET YOURSELF INVITED, like, by an actual woman!!!

imported_WILDJOKER5
09-28-2011, 01:40 PM
I think Sgt HULK's point was that straights don't know how to not get caught. Maybe gays make better Operators, cause they're sneakier.oh, straights know how to NOT get caught. Dumpsters, bunkers, vehicles, holes in the ground, they can do it. But heaven forbid there is hetero sex in the baracks.

DarkHeart
09-28-2011, 01:51 PM
oh, straights know how to NOT get caught. Dumpsters, bunkers, vehicles, holes in the ground, they can do it. But heaven forbid there is hetero sex in the baracks.

Ah, so is he saying gays' standards for where they do "it" are higher?

AJBIGJ
09-28-2011, 01:57 PM
Ah, so is he saying gays' standards for where they do "it" are higher?

I think it would be safer to say the average IQ on the straight side is somewhat lower, and the libido might be slightly higher (or the self control of it lower) on average. I've no empirical evidence to prove this as fact but I'll be the first to admit, some straight's are pretty f'ing dumb!

giggawatt
09-28-2011, 01:59 PM
Of course if there were open unisex showers there would be people sneaking a peak at the sex that they are attracted to. That is biology. I agree with that post. Look at Europe and nude or topless beaches. Of course Americans are easy to spot because they can't help themselves and stare or they're not good at hiding their peaks. However, I may be wrong, but it's not a big deal in Europe because they are used to it and are desensitized. To the American, seeing a topless girl in public is taboo. If that kind of thing were normal in American society, I don't think this would be as big of a deal. I think this is a big reason why strip clubs in a lot of European countries are more physical than visual.

DarkHeart
09-28-2011, 02:04 PM
Of course if there were open unisex showers there would be people sneaking a peak at the sex that they are attracted to. That is biology. I agree with that post. Look at Europe and nude or topless beaches. Of course Americans are easy to spot because they can't help themselves and stare or they're not good at hiding their peaks. However, I may be wrong, but it's not a big deal in Europe because they are used to it and are desensitized. To the American, seeing a topless girl in public is taboo. If that kind of thing were normal in American society, I don't think this would be as big of a deal. I think this is a big reason why strip clubs in a lot of European countries are more physical than visual.

Americans can't help but turn others into sex objects. Personally I think its organized religion's tendency to make people feel ashamed of their bodies resulting in sexual repression and people lossing their shit when ever they see a boobie.

imported_WILDJOKER5
09-28-2011, 02:09 PM
Ah, so is he saying gays' standards for where they do "it" are higher?No, they just don't get in trouble for being in the same sex room of another. The GO1B is not stopping people from having sex, but keeps people from entering the living quarters of someone of the opposite sex.

DarkHeart
09-28-2011, 02:17 PM
No, they just don't get in trouble for being in the same sex room of another. The GO1B is not stopping people from having sex, but keeps people from entering the living quarters of someone of the opposite sex.

I was just being silly, I didn't need a serious answer. Just taking the piss out of Sgt HULK's nonsense.

imported_WILDJOKER5
09-28-2011, 02:32 PM
I was just being silly, I didn't need a serious answer. Just taking the piss out of Sgt HULK's nonsense.Ah, ok. Wasn't sure...is that enough characters to press post?

Measure Man
09-28-2011, 04:20 PM
Perhaps the statements about straights showering with the opposite sex is more an illustrative devil's advocate observation. I for one don't want to shower with the opposite sex (as a group....one on one is always ok). However, I see these remarks as thought provoking and illustrating other issues which some seem to want to pretend aren't there.

No offense to our gay posters but I think much too much credit is being given with the assumption that a gay person would not engage in gawking etc but that a straight person would. I think most straight men would do everything they could to NOT look but would 'sneak' looks because it is in part biology. You may not like it but it is biology.

Well, here's the thing...a gay man showering with other man is NOT the same as a straight man showering with women.

First of all, that gay person has ALWAYS been able to shower with his same gender...since jr. high school. Any time he wants to, he can run over to the gym and hit the showers...it can NOT possibly be as big of a deal to him as it would be to us to be able to use the women's showers. I mean, that is where we all plan to hang out the minute the "Invisible Man" becomes a reality...yet, a gay man can do this anytime, but still leads a productive life.

Probably kind of like why you and I don't blow our loads upon seeing a woman's ankle...but a Middle Eastern man might.

Secondly, it's more about gender than sexual attraction...still waiting for one of the "shower guys" to answer...if sexual attraction is the main factor, why they don't feel equally comfortable showering/changing with their sister as they do their brother...their mother as they do their father...or their grandmother as they do their grandfather? Is there a sexual attraction in any of those relationships?


Now........why is my assertion any less valid than anyone else's?

Not that the assertion is less valid...but is the showers in the US military enviornment really SOOOO unique from showers anywhere else on the planet that has not had to specifically deny gays from the showers?

If there really is no way to do this fairly...shouldn't we then shoot for the fairest possible? What is more fair...you may have to alter your showering by 10 minutes if you don't want to shower with someone you know to be gay...or that gay person is not allowed to serve at all?


I have said it before and will repeat it. This situation is far more complicated than some would like to believe. As other posters have stated.....it will take time and patience on the part of ALL to bring this back to normal.

I still don't get the shower thing...if I KNOW someone is gay, just don't shower at the same time as them. If I don't KNOW he's gay...then that's what we've had for the last 18 years.

Can someone please explain the situation where they were forced into the showers with a gay person.


On another thread there was discussion of the spouses of same-sex couples when the military member is deployed and how much support they would receive. I thought of the organizations like the Army's FRG and would hope that these groups will embrace these spouses (or even significant others as I hope they do with the SOs of unmarried man-woman couples). I don't think we will see it widespread this year but perhaps soon.

It is complicated. Sometimes life is just too complicated for 'tearing the band-aid off'.

Nothing complicated about mutual respect, really.



Of course if there were open unisex showers there would be people sneaking a peak at the sex that they are attracted to. That is biology. I agree with that post. Look at Europe and nude or topless beaches. Of course Americans are easy to spot because they can't help themselves and stare or they're not good at hiding their peaks. However, I may be wrong, but it's not a big deal in Europe because they are used to it and are desensitized. To the American, seeing a topless girl in public is taboo. If that kind of thing were normal in American society, I don't think this would be as big of a deal. I think this is a big reason why strip clubs in a lot of European countries are more physical than visual.

Yes....much like seeing an ankle is not the same for an American as it is a Saudi....or seeing a boob not the same for a German as an American....being in the shower for a gay man is not the same as a straight man showering with women.

Measure Man
09-28-2011, 06:27 PM
So, now that DADT has been repealed...who has had a member in their unit "come out"?

Have you showered with this person previously?

Under what circumstances do you envision being forced into the shower with this person in the future?

AJBIGJ
09-28-2011, 06:54 PM
So, now that DADT has been repealed...who has had a member in their unit "come out"?

Have you showered with this person previously?

Under what circumstances do you envision being forced into the shower with this person in the future?

I had a guy come out to me while we were in the shower together the other day. I said "Great, you mind shaving my back for me?" I turned around and he was gone, it was kind of strange.

DarkHeart
09-28-2011, 07:25 PM
I had a guy come out to me while we were in the shower together the other day. I said "Great, you mind shaving my back for me?" I turned around and he was gone, it was kind of strange.

ewwww......

MACHINE666
09-28-2011, 08:30 PM
I danced around completely naked for about an hour in the men's locker room at the Ramstein North Gym, and even tried to High-5 a few Chiefs and some officers too! I was singing the main chorus to "Free-Falling" by Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers, only I changed the words to "Free-Balling" instead!

:D :D :D :D :D :D

AJBIGJ
09-28-2011, 08:42 PM
I danced around completely naked for about an hour in the men's locker room at the Ramstein North Gym, and even tried to High-5 a few Chiefs and some officers too! I was singing the main chorus to "Free-Falling" by Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers, only I changed the words to "Free-Balling" instead!

:D :D :D :D :D :D

I stuck to the standard "It's raining men", I even put on the tights!

TJMAC77SP
09-28-2011, 08:45 PM
I just wish major cultural changes were as easy as stated here. Life and the world would be a much simpler place to live that is for sure............

TJMAC77SP
09-28-2011, 08:45 PM
I danced around completely naked for about an hour in the men's locker room at the Ramstein North Gym, and even tried to High-5 a few Chiefs and some officers too! I was singing the main chorus to "Free-Falling" by Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers, only I changed the words to "Free-Balling" instead!

:D :D :D :D :D :D

I thought you did that everyday.

MACHINE666
09-28-2011, 08:47 PM
TJ, usually I do....only now I can't get kicked out for being a total perv when I do it in public!

:D :D :D :D :D

MACHINE666
09-28-2011, 08:48 PM
Edited for Double Post purposes!!!

Measure Man
09-28-2011, 08:51 PM
I danced around completely naked for about an hour in the men's locker room at the Ramstein North Gym, and even tried to High-5 a few Chiefs and some officers too! I was singing the main chorus to "Free-Falling" by Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers, only I changed the words to "Free-Balling" instead!

:D :D :D :D :D :D

I put on just my socks and shoes, nothing else...then stand at the sinks for 45 minutes shaving and brushing my teeth.

Measure Man
09-28-2011, 08:52 PM
I just wish major cultural changes were as easy as stated here. Life and the world would be a much simpler place to live that is for sure............

Well, DADT is gone...has been effectively gone for months...which cultural changes have proven difficult?

DarkHeart
09-28-2011, 08:57 PM
Well, DADT is gone...has been effectively gone for months...which cultural changes have proven difficult?

I'm still trying to figure out how equal treatment for gays has any effect whatsoever on straights.

MACHINE666
09-28-2011, 08:59 PM
DarkHeart, it's given us straights more rights to get down with our pervvy selves!!! Woo hoo!!!!

:D :D :D :D :D

DarkHeart
09-28-2011, 09:03 PM
DarkHeart, it's given us straights more rights to get down with our pervvy selves!!! Woo hoo!!!!

:D :D :D :D :D

Once again proving my Theory, Gays make the world a better place.... and Germans love David Hasselhoff

MACHINE666
09-28-2011, 09:16 PM
Dark Heart - Whatever dude, you're sounding like a wanna-be conservative!!!! *LOL*

And not that I pay too much attention to German media before 11pm, but I don't think they're as fixated on Hasselhoff as American seem to be....

:D :D :D :D :D

garhkal
09-28-2011, 09:37 PM
Don't knock the hoff!

Banned
09-28-2011, 10:56 PM
So, now that DADT has been repealed...who has had a member in their unit "come out"?

Have you showered with this person previously?

Under what circumstances do you envision being forced into the shower with this person in the future?

There was this one chick in my old unit who was super-hot and I (and pretty much every other male) wanted to bang.

Apparently she's gay. That's disappointing but at the same time totally hawt. I would have LOVED to see her making out with another girl. XD

candycane3482
09-29-2011, 02:32 AM
Funny thing happened to me at the gym today...

When I (a male) went into the female locker rooms to shower several of the women in the locker room got upset. Seems they felt uncomfortable with a heterosexual in the same locker room as them potentially watching them undress. I tried to explain to them that I had no intention of oogling them, made no overt signs of interest, I was a professional, and they needed to be professional about it too. Besides, seperate but equal showering, billeting and bathroom facilities smacked of segregation and we know how terrible that is. Can you image the cost and logistical nightmare if we had to create seperate living and bathroom facilities for every gender?

For some reason, I still can't explain why, I was asked to leave by the women and the gym staff. I guess all those women and the gym staff are heterophobes and haters.

I pray for the day when I can shower, bathe and serve with heterosexuals of both genders without fear of discrimination, hate and potential discharge from the military. I'm tired of having to live this secret life. :pray

Besides noting your sarcasm - how about this?

Was it a true co-ed locker room? If so, then you couldn't be kicked out.

I honestly, as a heterosexual female, could care less if I had to shower with guys while deployed or in the field or at the gym. But as others have noted, there are some males who are just not mature enough to handle it. I also agree that it is more of a societal "norm." We are taught that men and women are supposed to be separated and not share bathrooms or other facilities. But here's the thing, we had a co-ed bathroom in Iraq near our BN TOC. There were absolutely no issues. I walked in and made an immediate right to the last two stalls and never looked over in the direction of the urinals. I really don't care to see random dudes peeing nor do I think they want to watch me peeing or going number 2.

We also had to share a shower trailer the first deployment. Granted it was set up with male/female hours but whatever.

The only people who seem to be making a big deal about homosexuals are heterosexual males. People are so worried about homosexuals "weakening" our military but the only whiny, pussy cry-babies I hear from are heterosexual males.

As much as American televisions and movies shove sex into people's faces, we're a pretty puritanical society when it comes to talking about or even mentioning sex. It's not that big of a deal.

So again, if I had to shower with males then I would. I don't know about everyone else but when I'm in the shower, I'm there to bathe and get out - especially in an open shower. I don't go in there to stare at people naked.

giggawatt
09-29-2011, 09:16 AM
I danced around completely naked for about an hour in the men's locker room at the Ramstein North Gym, and even tried to High-5 a few Chiefs and some officers too! I was singing the main chorus to "Free-Falling" by Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers, only I changed the words to "Free-Balling" instead!

:D :D :D :D :D :D

So that was you! I remember thinking "That guy's REALLY excited about the repeal!"

TJMAC77SP
09-29-2011, 12:41 PM
I'm still trying to figure out how equal treatment for gays has any effect whatsoever on straights.

Speaking of oversimplifying.....or are you another one who simply, repeat simply equates this with racial integration and calls it a day? If so, this is a fruitless discussion.

The only true comparison to that period is that they both represented changes to a long held cultural situation. Beyond that it is so much more.

I am not calling for unequal treatment of anyone. Merely an acknowledgement that there is going to be an adjustment period and it does no good to anyone to castigate people for wanting to consider all the ramifications of the situation. There is a vast difference between throwing epitaphs at gays and claiming they are all going to Hell and someone who can acknowledge that gays are a fact of life; that it is not a lifestyle choice and that they aren’t evil BUT who based on a lifetime of cultural upbringing will need to adjust to certain circumstances.

I have said it before that as a retired member I have no dog in this fight but I have been witness to cultural changes in the military. During the late 70’s and early 80’s the AF was still having racial issues. I witnessed biased white members express their racial bias in no uncertain terms. This was unacceptable and usually dealt with quickly. What I saw happen frequently though was a complete shift in ‘power’ so to speak where blacks could address these people as redneck ignorant crackers and nothing seemed to be done about it. Of course it usually produced the expected results. When leadership stepped up and acknowledged that all sides would need to adjust their behavior however, the situation usually resolved itself. Yes, there will continue to be asshats on both sides of any issue but the majority will get in line with what is now the accepted norm.
It truly bothers me that some have probably read my comments and deemed me to be anti-gay just as some erroneously jump to the conclusion that I am a religious far-right conservative because I choose to challenge people on positions which strike me as illogical or specious etc. So be it. I post what I believe and have to take what comes. What I believe is that great changes must be acknowledged for what they are……complicated and very seldom explained away in glib one or two line missives.

DarkHeart
09-29-2011, 02:33 PM
Speaking of oversimplifying.....or are you another one who simply, repeat simply equates this with racial integration and calls it a day? If so, this is a fruitless discussion.

The only true comparison to that period is that they both represented changes to a long held cultural situation. Beyond that it is so much more.

I am not calling for unequal treatment of anyone. Merely an acknowledgement that there is going to be an adjustment period and it does no good to anyone to castigate people for wanting to consider all the ramifications of the situation. There is a vast difference between throwing epitaphs at gays and claiming they are all going to Hell and someone who can acknowledge that gays are a fact of life; that it is not a lifestyle choice and that they aren’t evil BUT who based on a lifetime of cultural upbringing will need to adjust to certain circumstances.

I have said it before that as a retired member I have no dog in this fight but I have been witness to cultural changes in the military. During the late 70’s and early 80’s the AF was still having racial issues. I witnessed biased white members express their racial bias in no uncertain terms. This was unacceptable and usually dealt with quickly. What I saw happen frequently though was a complete shift in ‘power’ so to speak where blacks could address these people as redneck ignorant crackers and nothing seemed to be done about it. Of course it usually produced the expected results. When leadership stepped up and acknowledged that all sides would need to adjust their behavior however, the situation usually resolved itself. Yes, there will continue to be asshats on both sides of any issue but the majority will get in line with what is now the accepted norm.
It truly bothers me that some have probably read my comments and deemed me to be anti-gay just as some erroneously jump to the conclusion that I am a religious far-right conservative because I choose to challenge people on positions which strike me as illogical or specious etc. So be it. I post what I believe and have to take what comes. What I believe is that great changes must be acknowledged for what they are……complicated and very seldom explained away in glib one or two line missives.

I don't think any of those negative things about you, if that counts for anything.

I understand the "adjustment period" I just don't get when some people complain about the repeal as if their lives are somehow effected by the personal lives of others.

You're also correct about comparisons with racial integration. Its not the same thing. The only similarity really is the kind of ignorance that made forced integration of forces and the repeal of anti-gay laws necessary to begin with.

AJBIGJ
09-29-2011, 02:38 PM
I don't think any of those negative things about you, if that counts for anything.

I understand the "adjustment period" I just don't get when some people complain about the repeal as if their lives are somehow effected by the personal lives of others.

You're also correct about comparisons with racial integration. Its not the same thing. The only similarity really is the kind of ignorance that made forced integration of forces and the repeal of anti-gay laws necessary to begin with.

That's not the only similarity, the black guys aren't willing to help shave my back in the showers either :( I guess I could try an API.

TJMAC77SP
09-29-2011, 05:00 PM
I don't think any of those negative things about you, if that counts for anything.

I understand the "adjustment period" I just don't get when some people complain about the repeal as if their lives are somehow effected by the personal lives of others.

You're also correct about comparisons with racial integration. Its not the same thing. The only similarity really is the kind of ignorance that made forced integration of forces and the repeal of anti-gay laws necessary to begin with.

Well, I could ask why being a religious far-right conservative is negative but I will assume you just meant the anti-gay part.:behindsofa

We do agree on the presence of ignorance.

candycane3482
09-29-2011, 05:27 PM
No, they just don't get in trouble for being in the same sex room of another. The GO1B is not stopping people from having sex, but keeps people from entering the living quarters of someone of the opposite sex.

Except that general order has been amended - our 1SG let opposite sex go into others rooms if the door was open first deployment. Then the second deployment - everyone just ignored it. I always had males in our CHU because of my roommate. She was a PL first when she was a 1LT and would have the guys in her platoon come over (and be inconsiderate that I was trying to sleep since I worked nights) and then she got promoted, became my company XO and would still have guys come over. She had this SPC who was her little bf though - that was really annoying.

People were ignoring that order when you couldn't have sex that's why they changed it. Bottom line - if people want to have sex they will regardless of where they are.

DarkHeart
09-29-2011, 08:45 PM
Well, I could ask why being a religious far-right conservative is negative but I will assume you just meant the anti-gay part.:behindsofa

We do agree on the presence of ignorance.

Yes, you could ask that, but it would be a matter for a completely different Thread. ;P

Pueblo
10-13-2011, 06:36 PM
The issue isn't that gay men or lesbian women wouldn't have a problem with co-ed showers, it's that heterosexual women would. Heterosexual men are told to just "suck it up" if they have to shower, bathe, undress, billet with gay men, but we as an institution go to all measures to ensure women don't have to "suck it up". It is a policy that is clearly unequal and unfair.

So why is one discriminatory policy OK and not the other? Why isn't there a hue and cry from the ACLU suing the DoD to stop this injustice? Where is the media interviewing men who just want the right to use public facilities like everyone else. Where is the Military Times reporter questioning the SecDef on the huge waste in money and materials building seperate gender specific facilities. Where is the civil rights leader proclaiming that seperate but equal is a slap in the face to the sacrifices of the great MLK?

Because liberal hypocricy is OK if it's directed against heterosexual men.

Fundamentally an unequal policy, (i.e forcing heterosexuals to "suck it up" about living with gays), is a flawed policy.

If showering with members of the same sex you suspect to be gay makes you uncomfortable, cover your pee pee with a bathing suit.

candycane3482
10-13-2011, 07:08 PM
The issue isn't that gay men or lesbian women wouldn't have a problem with co-ed showers, it's that heterosexual women would. Heterosexual men are told to just "suck it up" if they have to shower, bathe, undress, billet with gay men, but we as an institution go to all measures to ensure women don't have to "suck it up". It is a policy that is clearly unequal and unfair.

So why is one discriminatory policy OK and not the other? Why isn't there a hue and cry from the ACLU suing the DoD to stop this injustice? Where is the media interviewing men who just want the right to use public facilities like everyone else. Where is the Military Times reporter questioning the SecDef on the huge waste in money and materials building seperate gender specific facilities. Where is the civil rights leader proclaiming that seperate but equal is a slap in the face to the sacrifices of the great MLK?

Because liberal hypocricy is OK if it's directed against heterosexual men.

Fundamentally an unequal policy, (i.e forcing heterosexuals to "suck it up" about living with gays), is a flawed policy.

What are you talking about? Females have to share shower facilities in basic training just like guys had to. We had an open bay shower and it was get in and get out. So tell me how heterosexual women don't have the possibility of showering with a female who is a lesbian? I probably did in basic but you don't even have time to think, let alone notice if someone might be checking you out.

Quite honestly, if the military came out and said "Co-ed showers" then I think we would have to suck it up and drive on. You'd be surprised how many women would not care. Try not to stereotype all of us if you can.

I just don't see your train of thought about how heterosexual women who don't want to be around lesbians don't have to "suck it up" in sharing shower facilities.

Like some others said if you're scared of someone checking you out, cover yourself up.

imported_Seasons
10-13-2011, 07:19 PM
If showering with members of the same sex you suspect to be gay makes you uncomfortable, cover your pee pee with a bathing suit.

Hell, didn't it used to be that you couldn't bathe naked even in private?

DarkHeart
10-13-2011, 11:02 PM
Hell, didn't it used to be that you couldn't bathe naked even in private?

Some people wont be happy till its through the hole in the sheet.

Banned
10-14-2011, 12:57 AM
Hell, didn't it used to be that you couldn't bathe naked even in private?

Apparently that's just a Catholic thing. Before she got dementia my Grandma told me her Catholic Boarding School required them to wear swimwear while showering - even when alone.

You can't even see yourself naked... such a thing would be perversion.

TJMAC77SP
10-14-2011, 12:50 PM
............You can't even see yourself naked... such a thing would be perversion.

Well, I don't know about perversion but I for one would rather not.

candycane3482
10-14-2011, 12:54 PM
Well, I don't know about perversion but I for one would rather not.

You'd rather not see yourself naked? I guess to each his own...

TJMAC77SP
10-14-2011, 01:01 PM
You'd rather not see yourself naked? I guess to each his own...

Yes, let's just say the body now is not the body as it used to be.

It was a joke CC...maybe I should use those smiley thingies.

candycane3482
10-14-2011, 01:04 PM
Yes, let's just say the body now is not the body as it used to be.

It was a joke CC...maybe I should use those smiley thingies.

Well I can usually tell but that was a little unsure of what you were getting at lol. Just embrace your nakedness!! LOL

Shrike
10-14-2011, 01:22 PM
Well I can usually tell but that was a little unsure of what you were getting at lol. Just embrace your nakedness!! LOL
I do that all the time but the folks that work in my office complain.

DarkHeart
10-14-2011, 02:16 PM
Well I can usually tell but that was a little unsure of what you were getting at lol. Just embrace your nakedness!! LOL

Its better when others embrace your nakedness. Perferably someone hot.

TJMAC77SP
10-14-2011, 02:17 PM
I do that all the time but the folks that work in my office complain.

Particularly when your 'embrace' is specific.

candycane3482
10-14-2011, 02:20 PM
Its better when others embrace your nakedness. Perferably someone hot.

LOL! (But true).

AJBIGJ
10-14-2011, 02:20 PM
Its better when others embrace your nakedness. Perferably someone hot.

Unless of course it's late and you embrace it briefly before they say, I'm tired, let's try this another night! Then the flag's at full mast absent a colors ceremony.

DarkHeart
10-14-2011, 03:20 PM
always with the headaches

Pullinteeth
10-15-2011, 07:07 PM
always with the headaches

You know those daily protein injections help cure headaches (medically proven fact)...taken orally of course...

Banned
10-16-2011, 12:15 AM
Particularly when your 'embrace' is specific.

Haha! Consistent to a certain demographic group, heh?

We had a particularly well endowed Marine who liked to sit in the smoke pit in her T-shirt, leaning forward in her chair with her... ahem... chest... just sitting there on the table like a pair of watermelons. It was difficult not to stare (or at least look like you're not staring).

AJBIGJ
10-16-2011, 03:52 PM
Haha! Consistent to a certain demographic group, heh?

We had a particularly well endowed Marine who liked to sit in the smoke pit in her T-shirt, leaning forward in her chair with her... ahem... chest... just sitting there on the table like a pair of watermelons. It was difficult not to stare (or at least look like you're not staring).

Worst part is she's probably 100% aware of the effect it has on everyone else, and is enjoying every last second.

Measure Man
10-16-2011, 05:20 PM
Worst part is she's probably 100% aware of the effect it has on everyone else, and is enjoying every last second.

I thought that was the best part....

DarkHeart
10-17-2011, 12:16 PM
Haha! Consistent to a certain demographic group, heh?

We had a particularly well endowed Marine who liked to sit in the smoke pit in her T-shirt, leaning forward in her chair with her... ahem... chest... just sitting there on the table like a pair of watermelons. It was difficult not to stare (or at least look like you're not staring).

Maybe she was just trying to take the weight off her back.

AJBIGJ
10-17-2011, 03:05 PM
I thought that was the best part....

Depends if the individual is uncomfortable when they're caught gawking!

Banned
10-17-2011, 04:21 PM
Maybe she was just trying to take the weight off her back.

To this day I still remember how happy I was when I found an empty rowing machine directly across from the treadmill she was running on. :)

Apparently Gunny saw me, and later said I had a huge grin on my face the whole time.

MPA
11-01-2011, 08:53 PM
You should have told them you were a lesbian trapped in a man's body.

Wouldn't that make him a transvestite?

Pullinteeth
02-20-2012, 11:39 AM
ten characters

giggawatt
02-21-2012, 07:30 PM
ten characters

OK, WOW! + 2 more characters.

seatmech2412
03-13-2012, 11:45 PM
Looking at all the discrimination posts on here made me realize how discriminatory it is that David Hassellhoff and many other men are allowed to run around on normal cable TV, as well as in real life, without shirts on; yet Pam Anderson and other women are not allowed to do that. I hope feminists around the world will unite and fight for equality starting in 3, 2, 1.......

seatmech2412
03-14-2012, 12:16 AM
And by "fight for equality," I mean fight for women's rights to be topless in public! To fight for men to have to wear shirts would just be pointless at this point..... that ship has sailed!

Banned
03-14-2012, 12:19 AM
Looking at all the discrimination posts on here made me realize how discriminatory it is that David Hassellhoff and many other men are allowed to run around on normal cable TV, as well as in real life, without shirts on; yet Pam Anderson and other women are not allowed to do that. I hope feminists around the world will unite and fight for equality starting in 3, 2, 1.......

As a person with some socialist tendencies, I advocate that for every man who goes topless, one (attractive) woman must also go topless.

DarkHeart
03-29-2012, 06:57 PM
Looking at all the discrimination posts on here made me realize how discriminatory it is that David Hassellhoff and many other men are allowed to run around on normal cable TV, as well as in real life, without shirts on; yet Pam Anderson and other women are not allowed to do that. I hope feminists around the world will unite and fight for equality starting in 3, 2, 1.......

I've been advocating for this since I noticed that tits are awesome (Yes, I think tits are awesome). It is complete bull that women have to hide perfectly normal and beautiful parts of their bodies while men can flaunt their chesticles wherever they please.

poindexter
03-29-2012, 07:00 PM
Looking at all the discrimination posts on here made me realize how discriminatory it is that David Hassellhoff and many other men are allowed to run around on normal cable TV, as well as in real life, without shirts on; yet Pam Anderson and other women are not allowed to do that. I hope feminists around the world will unite and fight for equality starting in 3, 2, 1.......


I wholeheartedly agree with allowing SOME women to go topless. I wouldn’t mind doing my PT test topless or even doing out for a nice jog down the running trail topless. It would be a lot cooler that wearing that stuffy t-shirt and sports bra.

candycane3482
03-29-2012, 07:43 PM
Looking at all the discrimination posts on here made me realize how discriminatory it is that David Hassellhoff and many other men are allowed to run around on normal cable TV, as well as in real life, without shirts on; yet Pam Anderson and other women are not allowed to do that. I hope feminists around the world will unite and fight for equality starting in 3, 2, 1.......

But some of us aren't so well endowed. In FACT some men have bigger breasts than some of us women...it wouldn't much matter if I ran shirtless I think lol.

DarkHeart
03-29-2012, 08:03 PM
But some of us aren't so well endowed. In FACT some men have bigger breasts than some of us women...it wouldn't much matter if I ran shirtless I think lol.

Small boobs are beautiful too, embrace them, or let me do it. :)

AJBIGJ
03-29-2012, 08:14 PM
But some of us aren't so well endowed. In FACT some men have bigger breasts than some of us women...it wouldn't much matter if I ran shirtless I think lol.
We'll be happy to make that determination, just create some random adult-only website and link it when it's ready, you might even make a few $$

Measure Man
03-29-2012, 08:17 PM
We'll be happy to make that determination, just create some random adult-only website and link it when it's ready, you might even make a few $$

militarytimes . com / r / gonewild?

anyone...anyone?

AJBIGJ
03-29-2012, 08:19 PM
militarytimes . com / r / gonewild?

anyone...anyone?

Sounds good to me!

TJMAC77SP
03-29-2012, 09:08 PM
Small boobs are beautiful too, embrace them, or let me do it. :)

I have always said...........as long as they work (and no, not talking about lactation).

Banned
03-30-2012, 01:57 AM
But some of us aren't so well endowed. In FACT some men have bigger breasts than some of us women...it wouldn't much matter if I ran shirtless I think lol.

Candy, you must be really good at COIN, because you've won MY heart and mind...

Pullinteeth
03-30-2012, 06:24 AM
FINALLY! A DADT thread WORTH reading!! (at least the last two pages) Kudos!

candycane3482
03-30-2012, 03:06 PM
Small boobs are beautiful too, embrace them, or let me do it. :)

Oh you're hilarious lol. If you can find them ;) LOL!!

candycane3482
03-30-2012, 03:07 PM
Candy, you must be really good at COIN, because you've won MY heart and mind...

I'm not saying I would run shirtless lol. I just am not sure it would matter. Someone might say "Oh look at that dude running by..oh wait that's a girl!" LOL jk. They're not THAT small I guess. I guess just enough - haven't had any complaints yet lol.

AJBIGJ
03-30-2012, 03:21 PM
I'm not saying I would run shirtless lol. I just am not sure it would matter. Someone might say "Oh look at that dude running by..oh wait that's a girl!" LOL jk. They're not THAT small I guess. I guess just enough - haven't had any complaints yet lol.

If you ever require an objective viewpoint in the manner I'm sure more than a few of us will happily oblige you! :madgrin

TJMAC77SP
03-30-2012, 03:22 PM
Hand up...........both hands up

AJBIGJ
03-30-2012, 03:23 PM
Hand up...........both hands up

I may only be able to offer one hand, my other might be "busy".

candycane3482
03-30-2012, 06:13 PM
If you ever require an objective viewpoint in the manner I'm sure more than a few of us will happily oblige you! :madgrin

Ah touche gentlemen. Touche. I set myself up for that one lol. But um no. I think I've received enough comments and viewpoints lol.

AJBIGJ
03-30-2012, 07:38 PM
Ah touche gentlemen. Touche. I set myself up for that one lol. But um no. I think I've received enough comments and viewpoints lol.

If you change your mind, just remember, we're here to help! :hippie

Banned
03-31-2012, 12:10 AM
The sexism in modern day America makes me so angry. Why is it dudes are allowed to run about shirtless all day, but women are repressed and forced to wear uncomfortable clothes and undergarments on hot days? I say we end this discrimination immediately!!!!

Greg
03-31-2012, 01:54 AM
The sexism in modern day America makes me so angry. Why is it dudes are allowed to run about shirtless all day, but women are repressed and forced to wear uncomfortable clothes and undergarments on hot days? I say we end this discrimination immediately!!!!

I thought you are taking classes at a local university?

Banned
03-31-2012, 05:27 AM
...I am. I'm actually thinking of starting a petition for this. Like maybe a "Go to school/work topless day".

Pullinteeth
04-01-2012, 06:20 AM
If you ever require an objective viewpoint in the manner I'm sure more than a few of us will happily oblige you! :madgrin

Some of us may be more objective that others...it has been a while since I have seen tatas of any size (besides the buses [yes there really is a bus manufacturer named TATA])....

DarkHeart
04-01-2012, 08:24 PM
I'm not saying I would run shirtless lol. I just am not sure it would matter. Someone might say "Oh look at that dude running by..oh wait that's a girl!" LOL jk. They're not THAT small I guess. I guess just enough - haven't had any complaints yet lol.

Reverse Trap, a pleasant surprise.

AJBIGJ
04-02-2012, 01:25 PM
Some of us may be more objective that others...it has been a while since I have seen tatas of any size (besides the buses [yes there really is a bus manufacturer named TATA])....

Must be one of the greatest disappointments a man can experience, ooh look what's coming! It's! It's! Oh $#!^ nevermind!

Shrike
04-02-2012, 05:21 PM
Some of us may be more objective that others...it has been a while since I have seen tatas of any size (besides the buses [yes there really is a bus manufacturer named TATA])....


Must be one of the greatest disappointments a man can experience, ooh look what's coming! It's! It's! Oh $#!^ nevermind!

What's funny is coming up on one of the below buses on the autobahn. It's especially fun when you've got Grandma and four nephews, all between the ages of 10-14, visiting.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/108/285813881_caad28f8f7.jpg

AJBIGJ
04-02-2012, 05:22 PM
What's funny is coming up on one of the below buses on the autobahn. It's especially fun when you've got Grandma and four nephews, all between the ages of 10-14, visiting.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/108/285813881_caad28f8f7.jpg

Note to self, don't bring son to Germany until he's late teens.

Greg
04-02-2012, 05:28 PM
What's funny is coming up on one of the below buses on the autobahn. It's especially fun when you've got Grandma and four nephews, all between the ages of 10-14, visiting.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/108/285813881_caad28f8f7.jpg

I'm interested as to how fast do those buses normally cruise on the autobahn with a load of passengers.

Shrike
04-02-2012, 05:42 PM
I'm interested as to how fast do those buses normally cruise on the autobahn with a load of passengers.

Around 100-110kph...just like every other bus.

Greg
04-02-2012, 05:56 PM
Around 100-110kph...just like every other bus.

Gotcha...thanx.

imported_Freethinker1
06-11-2012, 05:37 AM
Funny thing happened to me at the gym today...

When I (a male) went into the female locker rooms to shower several of the women in the locker room got upset. Seems they felt uncomfortable with a heterosexual in the same locker room as them potentially watching them undress. I tried to explain to them that I had no intention of oogling them, made no overt signs of interest, I was a professional, and they needed to be professional about it too. Besides, seperate but equal showering, billeting and bathroom facilities smacked of segregation and we know how terrible that is. Can you image the cost and logistical nightmare if we had to create seperate living and bathroom facilities for every gender?

For some reason, I still can't explain why, I was asked to leave by the women and the gym staff. I guess all those women and the gym staff are heterophobes and haters.

I pray for the day when I can shower, bathe and serve with heterosexuals of both genders without fear of discrimination, hate and potential discharge from the military. I'm tired of having to live this secret life. :pray

Great post, Sunshine. The comparison and logic are sound. And no, you won't get a whole lot of serious answers.

Banned
06-11-2012, 07:32 PM
I look forward to the day when I can shower with females too. And help them lather down with soap. Hygiene is too important a mission for attractive females to do without my supervision!

Pullinteeth
07-27-2013, 01:38 AM
Whodda thunk that it would be a 9th grade girl trying to get into the boy's bathroom that would open the door to get men in women't locker rooms and pedophiles into whatever bathroom they wanted? According to the DOJ, it is now illegal to not allow someone into whatever bathroom they want to go into...
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/07/26/doj-ripped-for-making-transgender-restroom-use-new-front-in-civil-rights-battle/

garhkal
07-27-2013, 07:27 PM
Personally, i say until they have had the full sex change, they should be required to use the bathrooms/showers of the sex they HAVE.. not what they feel they should be.

E4RUMOR
03-08-2014, 01:46 PM
Funny thing happened to me at the gym today...

When I (a male) went into the female locker rooms to shower several of the women in the locker room got upset. Seems they felt uncomfortable with a heterosexual in the same locker room as them potentially watching them undress. I tried to explain to them that I had no intention of oogling them, made no overt signs of interest, I was a professional, and they needed to be professional about it too. Besides, seperate but equal showering, billeting and bathroom facilities smacked of segregation and we know how terrible that is. Can you image the cost and logistical nightmare if we had to create seperate living and bathroom facilities for every gender?

For some reason, I still can't explain why, I was asked to leave by the women and the gym staff. I guess all those women and the gym staff are heterophobes and haters.

I pray for the day when I can shower, bathe and serve with heterosexuals of both genders without fear of discrimination, hate and potential discharge from the military. I'm tired of having to live this secret life. :pray



I am reminded of the words of Camille Anna Paglia. Paglia is an American teacher, lesbian, feminist, and social critic. Paglia, a self-described dissident feminist, has been a professor at the University of the Arts in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, since 1984. She wrote the following:

"It is ridiculous to assert that gay men are interested only in other gay men and would never ogle straight men in barracks showers. When I heard this on TV I burst out laughing. Anyone who belongs to a health club knows better. Sexual tension and appraisal are constants, above all among gay men, who never stop cruising everything in sight. Seduction of straight studs is a highly erotic motif in gay porn."

This comes from the same woman who also criticized some lesbians by saying the following:

"The hypocrisy of lesbian feminist politics is clear in the increasing use among lesbians. . .of sex toys and esoteric sex practices...what bothers me is that the lesbian dildo craze stubbornly avoids acknowledging its anatomy-as-destiny implications. Why stop at dildos? If penetration excites, and if receptive female genitalia are so suited to friction by penis-shaped objects, why not go on to real penises? Dildos, used for thousands of years around the world, have always been understood as temporary stop-gap measures, in the absence of men... Any woman, gay or straight, who cannot respond to penises or who finds them hideous or laughable has been traumatized by some early experience. She is neither complete as a woman nor healthy as a person. We can no longer allow, without protest, obsessives and neurotics to preach a mutilated brand of feminism to trusting young women...Lesbians who use dildos but shun penises must start admitting that they operate sexually not just for women but against men."

garhkal
03-08-2014, 07:32 PM
Here here.. That is one smart lass.

FuelShopTech
04-14-2014, 02:12 AM
I am reminded of the words of Camille Anna Paglia. Paglia is an American teacher, lesbian, feminist, and social critic. Paglia, a self-described dissident feminist, has been a professor at the University of the Arts in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, since 1984. She wrote the following:

"It is ridiculous to assert that gay men are interested only in other gay men and would never ogle straight men in barracks showers. When I heard this on TV I burst out laughing. Anyone who belongs to a health club knows better. Sexual tension and appraisal are constants, above all among gay men, who never stop cruising everything in sight. Seduction of straight studs is a highly erotic motif in gay porn."


Sounds like silly, childish homophobia to me.

Besides, if the fact that a gay guy sees your butt is the worst thing that ever happens to you in your life, you're a pretty lucky boy.

I've shared showers and locker rooms with known lesbians. You'll survive, kids.

Absinthe Anecdote
04-14-2014, 02:56 AM
Sounds like silly, childish homophobia to me.

Besides, if the fact that a gay guy sees your butt is the worst thing that ever happens to you in your life, you're a pretty lucky boy.

I've shared showers and locker rooms with known lesbians. You'll survive, kids.

LOL!

That reminds me of that Chaplin who wrote the famous "eye-candy" letter to Stars and Stripes back in 2009. He pretty much confirmed my suspicion that chaplains are tools...

Respect heterosexuals’ rights

I have a question I wish someone would answer regarding the drive to allow homosexuals to serve openly in our military: Will the rights of heterosexuals to have privacy be preserved?

As a heterosexual man, I know what it’s like to have a healthy sex drive. Thus I feel I can safely assume that a homosexual male would be sexually aroused by those with whom he lives and showers. So, what do you say to a warrior who objects to being housed with, or having to shower with, openly homosexual servicemembers? Is the answer going to be: "You’re homophobic! You need to get over it and just let people be who they are!"?

In other words, do I, as a heterosexual male, have a right to privacy in terms of who is allowed to live in close quarters and shower with me? If not, what about our females? Currently the military (for the most part), segregates its males and females in terms of living conditions, showers and bathrooms. If, in the name of freedom of choice, we allow homosexuals to live with and shower with heterosexual males, would we be able to stop a heterosexual male from demanding he be allowed to live and shower with the females? If we are committed to consistency, should we not then tell any women who might object to such arrangements, "Don’t be so heterophobic! Get over it. Just let people be who they are!"?

Of course I’m not advocating unisex living conditions. But if we change the current policy I don’t see how we can stop it from happening. So I ask: Do heterosexuals have a right to not be "eye candy" for homosexuals in showers and bedrooms?

Chaplain (Capt.) Erik Gramling
Camp Arifjan, Kuwait

http://www.stripes.com/opinion/letters-to-the-editor-for-tuesday-march-10-2009-1.90152