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Igloowhite
09-03-2011, 03:24 AM
Read this Command Message from another site forum, anyone have any firsthand knowledge if this is real or a hoax?

An email from the command chief at an undisclosed location, edited to protect the guilty:

"ASAB Enlisted Corps,

Welcome to 5MT accountability one and all. Today marks the day that you are
required to know the Airman's Creed and Air Force Song as outlined in my
first 5MT to the Enlisted Corps. At no time did I alleviate ANYONE from this
requirement, so the demographic is clear. If you are an "E-something", this
applies to you. To some it applies even more, especially if you are a
supervisor. If in a supervisory role, you are also accountable TO and FOR
your people.



MANY PEOPLE ARE ASKING WHY I INITIATED THIS 5MT TO BEGIN WITH. Well.Before
we delve into the "whys," let's first revisit the "Who, What, Where, and
When" parts. Those were provided in BOTH the initial and follow-on emails
that I've attached. The "how" was left completely up to you.

- Who: Every Enlisted member assigned to the XXXAEW.

- What: Be able to RECITE from MEMORY the Airman's Creed and "sing"
the first verse of the AF song

- Where: In public forums during Wing events or when asked by
senior leadership.

- When: Primarily by 1 September 2011

- How: Based on your personal preference

- WHY: To forge LEADERSHIP and FOLLOWERSHIP capability and to drive
Enlisted uniformity during ### AEW ceremonies.

BACKGROUND:

- VECTOR 1 came directly from AF Leadership: As CMSAF Roy's
direction when he told all USAF Command Chiefs to."Champion the Airman's
Creed and ensure you and your Airmen are able to recite it". Period.

- VECTOR 2 came from me as a reiteration of CMSAF Roy's
direction. From both a Leadership and followership perspective.

- VECTOR 3 should have come from Your Supervisor: That vector
should have mirrored CMSAF Roy's as a matter of loyalty and in a manner of
professionalism.

- VECTOR 4 should have come from YOU

DISCUSSION: Everyone presented with the 5MT requirements had options in
CHOOSING their personal way ahead. Their choices will place them into a
category of compliance as listed below. Almost everyone should be able to
recognize which demographic they primarily align with. Here are the 6
categories:

1. Someone who just recently arrived here & hadn't had 50 days to meet
the 5MT requirements. You are still accountable, but you'll be granted more
time. Get on it & get there within 50 days from your DAS. You are NOT DONE
yet.

2. Someone who already knew both recitations, and were able to
deliver them from day 1. You were good to go from the initial vector. Good
on you. You are DONE. Would ask that you assist others who aren't quite
there yet.

3. Someone who didn't know either of them BUT accepted the
requirement and made it happen. If you took it upon yourself to learn them,
you are a leader by example. If you took the direction of your supervisor,
you are a competent follower. Regardless, you met the requirements and did
not fail. Good on you. You are DONE. Hopefully you help those around you.

4. Someone in a supervisory position who knew or learned it, led by
example, kept your Wingmen in sight, and pushed your subordinates toward
success. You embodied the ability to Fly, Fight, and WIN. You have proven
yourself as someone who wasn't prone to sit-back, give-up, and allow
failure. Good on you. You are DONE. Your people are probably thanking you
for pushing them to succeed.

5. Someone who TRIED their hardest but still couldn't get it memorized
in time. You may not fully be there yet, but since the words are in your
memory.chances are you'll be able to recite it in a crowd. In any event, I
(and other Wingmen) will recite along with you and together we'll all
succeed in this 5MT. Good on you for giving it your best shot. You are NOT
DONE, so KEEP TRYING until you get 100% of it.

6. Someone who dismissed the entire requirement and neither worked at
it personally..nor pushed their Airmen to success. You Faltered and Failed.
Period. If you're one who either complained about the 5MT, or openly refused
to comply.you're still on the hook. If you're a Supervisor who failed to
lead your Airmen to success.you're still on the hook. If you think this is
over, think again. You are NOT DONE, and that will become even clearer in
the future.

DELIVERABLES: The Commander and I have already been asking Enlisted Airmen
to recite the Airman's Creed in public. Yes folks, the Wing CC is also
on-board in this exercise. So my hope is that we encounter Airmen in
categories 1-5 when we're out and about. So far.it's been good. Two
excursions, 11 Airmen.11 successful deliveries.

WAY AHEAD: I will periodically ask folks if they know it. If they say yes, I
may recite or sing along WITH them. I will ask how they gained their
success. I will ask if they were vector checked buy their immediate
Supervisor. The answers THEY GIVE will tell me who Led and Followed
appropriately. If they say they don't know it.there will be tougher
questions.

BOTTOM LINE: If you are an Enlisted Airman who fell into categories 1-5 -
No need to read on any further unless you really want to. Continue to move
forward and keep finding ways to meet requirements. If your Supervisor
pushed you toward success.thank them. If you Led and followed
appropriately.you hit the 5MT and will be able to execute from here on out.

ROCK BOTTOM LINE: Hopefully the Airman's Creed will become personal to you.
Hopefully you'll realize that EVERY activity you perform EVERY day provides
you an opportunity to Fly, Fight, and win. By realizing that "Fly" equates
to rising to face the challenge, "Fight" equates to expending energy to meet
the challenge, and "Win" equates to overcoming the challenge...it may make
some sense. Hope you Flew, Fought, and Won on this challenge.

Category 6 personnel.read on below my signature block. There's more.


V/R

Chief Xxxxxxxx

CMSgt X. Xxxxx Xxxxxxxx
Wing Command Chief Master Sergeant
### Air Expeditionary Wing (AFCENT)


CATEGORY 6

Just so there's no ambiguity here. If you blew off the requirement , you've
failed as a follower. If you're a supervisor who told your people that it
wasn't important, you have failed exponentially as both a leader and a
follower. By ignoring what your Senior Enlisted leadership directed you to
do, you purposefully missed the mark and took down a couple of our Core
Values with you . First, You didn't demand Excellence in ALL we do and
Secondly you put yourself ABOVE a tasking. two of the 3 core values
destroyed in one fell swoop.

Now.before anyone starts complaining about the difficulty of the Airman's
creed requirements; let me dissect the task into bits and pieces that are
easier to swallow. Hopefully this will clarify the failure a bit more.

NOTE: The first 5MT went out on 12 July, so the entire period of "training"
equates to 50 days. Nice round number, but roughly 7 weeks if you received
it on 12 July.

- Basic Trainees have 7 weeks of "training days" to learn the exact
same things CMSAF Roy asked of us. They do so without the Military
experiences that we have. So, the advantage should have been YOURS.

- Reading the entire Airman's Creed out loud takes less than 40
seconds, even if you momentarily pause between stanzas . That's less than
one minute from end to end.

- Chances are, by reading it out loud for 2 minutes a day you'd
have had it memorized in 20 days. 3 times in a row per day.20 days in a
row. If you did that, you'd be in category 5 at the very least.

- Even if using the entire 50 days, you would have expended 100
total minutes of effort. Less than two total hours of time stretched over
nearly 2 months.simply reading out loud. No sweat. No toil.simply reciting.

- There are 18 total lines in the Airman's Creed, so that equates
to learning 2 lines per week. Actually it's a bit less once you realize that
4 of the lines are exactly the same.

- If you broke it down by stanzas, there are four. So you'd have
had 12 . 5 days to learn each stanza

WHAT I HAVE HEARD: Some thought the 5MT was "stupid" so they QUIT on day one
and TOLD others to blow it off as well. Instead of shaping the environment
through followership and discipline they chose to ACCEPT or even DIRECT
failure. That is intolerable.

WAY AHEAD: Right now, I don't even know who fits into what demographic.But
I'm about to find out. I'll see who knows it or not. If they don't know it,
I'll ask how much time they put into "learning". I'll ask for their
immediate supervisor's name. I'll ask what their Supervisor did to ensure
their success. I'll ask if they were vector checked by their immediate
Supervisor. That should tell me enough to categorize those who failed.and
those who let them fail. Then they will BOTH make it right. It's called
accountability. In this game, everyone gets a trophy.

BOTTOM LINE: Never leave an Airman behind, Never Falter.and do not fail. If
you're off-track.return to the fight NOW. If you tell me you're
reengaging.I'm good with that.


V/R


Chief Xxxxxxxx
/end quote

BigBaze
09-03-2011, 03:45 AM
It would not surprise me, not one little bit....

OtisRNeedleman
09-03-2011, 04:06 AM
Do they get extra points for waving - what is it, the Little Brown Book? - as they recite the Airman's Creed and sing the Air Force Song, just like the Chinese used to wave Mao's Little Red Book during the Cultural Revolution? And if there is more than one person reciting/singing, do they get even more points if they synchonize their book waving?

If this is true, there's an E-9 (NOT a Chief) with WAY too much time on his hands. Guy needs a REAL job.

Igloowhite
09-03-2011, 04:09 AM
Otis, Mao's Little Red Book is exactly what I thought when I first read this...Incredible this CLOWN is an E-9!

OtisRNeedleman
09-03-2011, 04:19 AM
Otis, Mao's Little Red Book is exactly what I thought when I first read this...Incredible this CLOWN is an E-9! But keep in mind, if this message is correct, the guy's an E-9, NOT a Chief. I can see reciting the Airman's Creed and singing the Air Force song at Commander's Call, but reading this purported message, "leadership" seems to make it a fetish. Don't want to sound like a geezer, but when I was on active duty it was just assumed everyone knew the Air Force Song, and at that time we didn't have an Airman's Creed to worry about. Guess we just knew we were professionals, and the AF's job was to fly and fight. If you have to keep reciting what your service is all about, and the "leadership" is shoving it down your throat, maybe there's a reason people aren't drinking the koolaid.

ScarlettGTO
09-03-2011, 04:23 AM
Otis, Mao's Little Red Book is exactly what I thought when I first read this...Incredible this CLOWN is an E-9!

Al Udeid AB is what I thought of first when I read this. This is some dumb shit that would ooze out of that place. Why can't they just let a dying dog die? No one cares about the creed and people have slaughtered the AF song by being clapping in it ALL THE F'N TIME

Does this guy know that nothing comes after E-9? Also, as a Command Chief don't you have other, more pressing stuff to do around the wing than chase down airmen and have them recite things?

Igloowhite
09-03-2011, 04:27 AM
This is what they prioritize? They have rank-and-file airman that don't possess technical expertise on the aircraft. Many times when I transit a location the technicians have an extremely limited knowledge of their job concerning aircraft maintenance. We have far, far more bigger problems than being able to recite this nonsense that brings nothing to the table in terms of capability and effectiveness!

JD2780
09-03-2011, 04:49 AM
This is te exact reason why the AF is heading into the trash pit. If you want creeds go to the Rangers. Eat sh*t and retire Chief XXX. You suck as a leader and suck the life from the AF.

grimreaper
09-03-2011, 04:51 AM
"- VECTOR 1 came directly from AF Leadership"

No it didn't. If it did, this wouldn't only be directed at the "E-somethings". Last I checked. O-somethings are Airmen as well and I haven't seen anything come out stating they have to regurgitate it on command.

My rater is Lt. Col XxXxXx. Having the Airman's Creed memorized wasn't discussed in my last feedback and I really don't think he cares if I know it or not. Heck, I don't think he knows it.

Further, I do happen to know the Creed and the AF Song from memory, but if asked, I would say I didn't know it if I was interrupted during the course of my duties or my own personal time. And while I was being scolded for not knowing it, I would be quickly jotting them down on a piece of paper and when whomever it was was finished listening to themselves talk, I would hand it to them and ask them if they were done wasting my time.

Lastly, anyone putting this much focus on something this petty when they are downrange, has no job or no real purpose for being there. This is more of a hindrance to the war effort than any help.


Hey, chalk XX/sortie XX was late taking off and unit XXXX didn't get the supplies or CAS they requested and now they're dead.

RE: Oh, it's OK. My guys were back in their rooms studying the AF Song and Airman's Creed.

We need to calculate how many man-hours this cost and file a fraud, waste, and abuse claim.

ScarlettGTO
09-03-2011, 05:05 AM
It just baffles me at the disconnect between leadership of both E and O and those that are pulling the line.

Chief: Airman, explain to me the inner working of this jet engine you are working on.
Amn:*looks at Chief all cross eyed and drools*
Chief:Recite the Creed!
Amn: I am an American Airman..... (says whole creed)
Chief: Promote him now! He's a genius! You son are a future leader of this great Air Force!

I'd be willing to bet a paycheck that this is some doing of the Deid

insidiousbookworm
09-03-2011, 05:10 AM
Yep--this is 100% accurate and true, and that is an exact copy/paste of the email that was sent out.

I'm actually sitting at that particular base in an undisclosed location. Now, I haven't actually witness him stop anyone and have them recite yet, but I'm pretty confident that it is happening. This is everything that sucks about the AF, concentrated.

OtisRNeedleman
09-03-2011, 05:38 AM
Yep--this is 100% accurate and true, and that is an exact copy/paste of the email that was sent out.

I'm actually sitting at that particular base in an undisclosed location. Now, I haven't actually witness him stop anyone and have them recite yet, but I'm pretty confident that it is happening. This is everything that sucks about the AF, concentrated.

Wonder if this thread can be provided to our erstwhile E-9, just to let him know his verbal masturbation has gone worldwide, heh, heh.

29Husker
09-03-2011, 06:25 AM
Yep--this is 100% accurate and true, and that is an exact copy/paste of the email that was sent out.

I'm actually sitting at that particular base in an undisclosed location. Now, I haven't actually witness him stop anyone and have them recite yet, but I'm pretty confident that it is happening. This is everything that sucks about the AF, concentrated.

I'm betting Al Dhafra

insidiousbookworm
09-03-2011, 07:48 AM
I'm betting Al Dhafra

Nope--if you read the first line of the post, you can probably figure it out. The initials are right there.

Measure Man
09-03-2011, 08:15 AM
What the heck is 5MT?

29Husker
09-03-2011, 08:44 AM
I stand corrected. Not sure where that is then....

Shrike
09-03-2011, 08:45 AM
What the heck is 5MT?
I was wondering the same thing.

If this is the 'Deid, it's the first I've heard of it. But I don't fall under the wing, either.

EDIT:

Nope--if you read the first line of the post, you can probably figure it out. The initials are right there.

Ahhh, clarity.

This whole thing brings to mind some old Styx lyrics:
Is it any wonder I've got too much time on my hands
It's ticking away with my sanity...

insidiousbookworm
09-03-2011, 09:16 AM
What the heck is 5MT?

From the original email, dated 12 July:

"Here are your immediate (5-meter) Professional Development targets for August 11."

I wasn't here then--I was still enjoying life off on my JET tasking in Iraq.

Still not entirely sure where "5-meter" comes from; I believe it is a reference to the "5-10-25" security checks, but that part has not been clarified. There have been three emails about this so far, and all three have been quite lengthy.

I actually miss Baghdad.

Igloowhite
09-03-2011, 09:35 AM
Insidious...I feel for your predicament! Any chance getting this moron's name?

MACHINE666
09-03-2011, 10:20 AM
I wonder if the Navy Seals who killed Osama Bin Laden faltered and failed because they did not know or recite the airman's creed. Obviously they do not embody the spirit of "Fly, Fight, and Win"!

:D :D :D :D :D

Nickymaz
09-03-2011, 10:33 AM
I dont think this is the Deid, I haven't seen anything about this and the Wing Chief just got here. I'm thinking Ali al Salem.

Speaking as an officer, if my chief enlisted leader came to me this idea I'd just role my eyes and tell him to find something useful to do. A deployed wing commander is probably working 16 hrs days; worrying about his guys flying missions and dropping bombs, mantenance of aircraft and facilities, force protection, handling a mountain of admin stuff etc, not the fucking airman's creed. Let's focus on accomplishing the mission and making life a little easier for out deployed folks rather than heap more BS on them.

I agree with others who noted that this is emblematic of bigger problems with our Air Force; an organization that is becoming increasingly focused on everything BUT the mission.

Shrike
09-03-2011, 10:39 AM
I dont think this is the Deid, I haven't seen anything about this and the Wing Chief just got here. I'm thinking Ali al Salem.

Speaking as an officer, if my chief enlisted leader came to me this idea I'd just role my eyes and tell him to find something useful to do. A deployed wing commander is probably working 16 hrs days; worrying about his guys flying missions and dropping bombs, mantenance of aircraft and facilities, force protection, handling a mountain of admin stuff etc, not the fucking airman's creed. Let's focus on accomplishing the mission and making life a little easier for out deployed folks rather than heap more BS on them.
I agree with others who noted that this is emblematic of bigger problems with our Air Force; an organization that is becoming increasingly focused on everything BUT the mission.
<Applauding> Why is this concept so f$cking hard to understand for some people? If I were wing king for a day I'd fire his ass and get someone in there that understood the above.

wxjumper
09-03-2011, 11:52 AM
lol, what is next? On the spot PT Tests? There are so many things about this letter that I don't know where to start.

- 5MT? Is that short for 5 meters? The standard abbreviation for Meter is M, not MT jackass.

- Whoa! 4 Vectors! Well, with that many vectors nobody should have an excuse! I can understand this slipping by with only 2 or 3 vectors, but not 4.

FLAPS
09-03-2011, 11:56 AM
Guess what, Chief?

1. As a FGO I require my folks to focus 100% on our mission, not gay creeds that make people think they're so-called warriors.
2. If the AF is having so much trouble getting people to memorize and recite the creed, instead of forcing them to "pretend" to give a crap, why don't you ask yourself WHY people aren't interested? If the creed was so cool, then we'd all memorize and recite it with enthusiasm.
3. True leaders inspire their troops to WANT to follow. YOU are not inspiring anyone with your demands, threats, etc.
4. You have ZERO control over my folks' LOEs or EPR ratings, I DO! At the end of the day, the guy/gal that successfully generates another mission, but can't seem to remember the first, second, third verse of some creed STILL gets my kudos for a job well done.

insidiousbookworm
09-03-2011, 12:45 PM
I dont think this is the Deid, I haven't seen anything about this and the Wing Chief just got here. I'm thinking Ali al Salem.

:first

Fortunately, I just got here, and I'm nearly gone.

wxjumper
09-03-2011, 12:48 PM
Guess what, Chief?

1. As a FGO I require my folks to focus 100% on our mission, not gay creeds that make people think they're so-called warriors.
2. If the AF is having so much trouble getting people to memorize and recite the creed, instead of forcing them to "pretend" to give a crap, why don't you ask yourself WHY people aren't interested? If the creed was so cool, then we'd all memorize and recite it with enthusiasm.
3. True leaders inspire their troops to WANT to follow. YOU are not inspiring anyone with your demands, threats, etc.
4. You have ZERO control over my folks' LOEs or EPR ratings, I DO! At the end of the day, the guy/gal that successfully generates another mission, but can't seem to remember the first, second, third verse of some creed STILL gets my kudos for a job well done.

Unfortunately, they do have control over awards since they are awarded by AFCENT. I can see this tool keeping a list of everybody who is not able to recite the Creed and their supervisors and downgrading or rejecting their awards when they come through.

wxjumper
09-03-2011, 12:52 PM
If true, one thing I'd like to ask this "Chief" is that if it's so important, why is this only directed at the Enlisted? Are O's not Airmen as well? How many O's do you think have the Creed memorized?



Because the Chief can't "direct" Officers like he can the Enlisted force and the Wing King probably thinks this is such a horrible idea just like everybody else, but is deferring to his “senior enlisted advisor” on how he wants to direct the enlisted force.

SENDBILLMONEY
09-03-2011, 01:07 PM
Read this Command Message from another site forum, anyone have any firsthand knowledge if this is real or a hoax?

It sounds tooltastic enough to be real, but I've read (okay, and written) too many bogus ones to be sure.

I think mandatory recitations of the Creed should be performed in the manner one sees in POW propaganda videos. They should be flat, halting monotones. Extra credit should be awarded to personnel who, during the recitation, blink the word "douchery" in Morse code with their eyelids.

KellyinAvon
09-03-2011, 01:51 PM
I lost interest about the 8th sentence. Didn't anyone tell this guy the B in the ABCs of writing is BREVITY or does he need the Merriam-Webster link? Has to be the same Wing E-9 that sent out the other War and Peace-sized e-mail we bashed a while back.
Otis R: great Mao point!
SENDBILLMONEY: we should send you money for the POW propaganda-style recital plan.

Fenton
09-03-2011, 01:51 PM
Must be a new Kool-Aide Command Clown. The Creed is a PME only Function and was squashed by real chiefs a long time ago. Besides, its prohibited at a number of FOB's because the Army considers it an insulting Rip-off of their Creed.

Sure sounds like the guy at the Deid.....

edoc118
09-03-2011, 01:54 PM
It's definitely real. It's available in the Chief's Corner on Ali Al-Saleem's website. What I'm wondering is, can that E-9 pass his PT test?

KellyinAvon
09-03-2011, 01:59 PM
Must be a new Kool-Aide Command Clown. The Creed is a PME only Function and was squashed by real chiefs a long time ago. Besides, its prohibited at a number of FOB's because the Army considers it an insulting Rip-off of their Creed. Sure sounds like the guy at the Deid.....
Hey! We finally agree with the Army on something!

EOMFD/GFYM8
09-03-2011, 03:15 PM
I don't think dispassionately regurgitating a creed or song without conviction is any measure of leadership or followership. There are so many things that we "should" do but don't. CSAF reading list? SNCOs are supposed to read that shit. This guy could just have easily said, "all enlisted in this wing will read the CSAF reading list and be able to answer questions about it on demand. Those who can't/don't and their supervisors are shit-bags." That's just one example too.

The fact is when you've done a good job leading your troops and following your superiors, you probably won't know it until something goes down. Example: you're out dismounted and you step on a pressure plate, knocks your ass out and frags you. All the Joes want to run up to you and your SrA #2 stops a whole company of infantry and tells them to stay put. Then he methodically clears up to you with a mine detector, finding a secondary device in the process, and gets you out of there without creating any more casualties. Who taught him that? You did. He watched and listened to everything you did because he RESPECTS you. He kept his head and did the RIGHT thing even if it wasn't the EASY thing. Believe it or not, this exact scenario has happened in the AF at least 10 times in the last 18 months.

This E9 is trying to push and measure leadership and followership using the least evolved and inconsequential benchmark available: MEMORIZATION. He'd be better off asking his people how they thought the creed applied to them. Anybody can memorize something...really, they can. But assigning meaning and getting your people to understand things happening around them helps them operate intelligently when you're not around to guide them.

BRUWIN
09-03-2011, 04:36 PM
I think you should have to recite the creed word for word before you get a WAPS test booklet in the testing room. Get one word wrong? Better luck next year.

SENDBILLMONEY
09-03-2011, 04:44 PM
I think you should have to recite the creed word for word before you get a WAPS test booklet in the testing room. Get one word wrong? Better luck next year.

Too lenient. I support spot demotion.

EOMFD/GFYM8
09-03-2011, 05:51 PM
I think you should have to recite the creed word for word before you get a WAPS test booklet in the testing room. Get one word wrong? Better luck next year.

I know you're being sarcastic, but the mere flicker of an idea that someone out there might possibly hold that opinion makes me want to mop floors at a grocery store.

OtisRNeedleman
09-03-2011, 05:52 PM
Guess what, Chief?

1. As a FGO I require my folks to focus 100% on our mission, not gay creeds that make people think they're so-called warriors.
2. If the AF is having so much trouble getting people to memorize and recite the creed, instead of forcing them to "pretend" to give a crap, why don't you ask yourself WHY people aren't interested? If the creed was so cool, then we'd all memorize and recite it with enthusiasm.
3. True leaders inspire their troops to WANT to follow. YOU are not inspiring anyone with your demands, threats, etc.
4. You have ZERO control over my folks' LOEs or EPR ratings, I DO! At the end of the day, the guy/gal that successfully generates another mission, but can't seem to remember the first, second, third verse of some creed STILL gets my kudos for a job well done. Right on, buddy!

MaintChief
09-03-2011, 05:55 PM
If this is true, we have another idiot in a Command Chief position, once again proving that the position is worthless and needs to go the way of the Dodo bird. As a retired CMSgt I am embarrassed that such stupidity is out there, being propagated by someone who should know better. Guess this tool forgot his Chief's Creed....

OtisRNeedleman
09-03-2011, 05:58 PM
It sounds tooltastic enough to be real, but I've read (okay, and written) too many bogus ones to be sure.

I think mandatory recitations of the Creed should be performed in the manner one sees in POW propaganda videos. They should be flat, halting monotones. Extra credit should be awarded to personnel who, during the recitation, blink the word "douchery" in Morse code with their eyelids. Hey! Let's not forget having them wave the - Little Brown Book? - in time with the chant! :)

Another thought.... 5MT...five megatons....that's the amount of b.s. contained in the E-9's email.

SENDBILLMONEY
09-03-2011, 06:01 PM
Another thought.... 5MT...five megatons....that's the amount of b.s. contained in the E-9's email.

I think it's 5 meter target, based on another email I saw from this CCM.

ChiefB
09-03-2011, 06:59 PM
I would like to be "The Stealth Chief" wherever this character is stationed and hand out my "Business card" with the Creed on one side and the AF Hymn on the other with the caption "For use whenever challenged by an E-9 IAW 5MT Accountability".:smokin

ScarlettGTO
09-03-2011, 07:01 PM
<Applauding> Why is this concept so f$cking hard to understand for some people? If I were wing king for a day I'd fire his ass and get someone in there that understood the above.

Sooooo a highly motivated SrA to TSgt?

BRUWIN
09-03-2011, 07:43 PM
If this is true, we have another idiot in a Command Chief position, once again proving that the position is worthless and needs to go the way of the Dodo bird. As a retired CMSgt I am embarrassed that such stupidity is out there, being propagated by someone who should know better. Guess this tool forgot his Chief's Creed....

I'm glad someone else feels the same. I kinda want to run into this guy sometime and pray he asks me to recite it. I would recite my retirement speech that I've already drafted.

BRUWIN
09-03-2011, 07:53 PM
"5MT accountability, deliverables, vector checks, way ahead, bottom lines"

This can't be real.

Shrike
09-03-2011, 08:54 PM
Sooooo a highly motivated SrA to TSgt?I fail to see how they could do any worse, at all.

imported_AFKILO7
09-03-2011, 10:47 PM
The Failboat has docked. No ball pussy loser E9.

Chief Songtan
09-04-2011, 01:36 PM
Assuming this is real and not PT God-style satire, well, I'm speechless. It reads like a parody. I mean, "vector this, vector that"...really?

My current duties leave me somewhat detached from the standard "assigned to Base X" format. But, at my previous assignment, I was fully engaged with the Chiefs Group and, I swear, nobody talked like this. Not even the Command Chiefs. The Command Chiefs were down-to-earth guys. I enjoyed going to Chiefs Group meetings. If they were like the tool writing that e-mail, I wouldn't have.

KellyinAvon
09-04-2011, 01:51 PM
Anybody got an actual name on this guy?

Your_Name_Here
09-04-2011, 02:06 PM
If the numerical designation of the wing/base in the posted email is accurate, then this is our E9 (http://www.386aew.afcent.af.mil/library/biographies/bio.asp?id=14701). Personally, I plan to stay as FAAAAAAAARRRRRR away as humanly possible.

I do happen to know the AF song (no one EVER sings more than the first verse anyway), but if put on the spot, I can and probably will freeze and convince whomever that I have a strong case of stage fright. That goes double for the creed, which I will stick to the line of currently engaging, or whatever will get him out of my face.

Anyone remember ALF? I loved the question he asked Will Tanner, and it's apt for this situation, and should be addressed to the AF in general: "Why must you needlessly complicate EVERYTHING???"

ConfusedAirman
09-04-2011, 02:34 PM
Obviously a top candiate for CMSAF. This DB E-9 needs to spend more time improving his writing skills than promoting such BS. Here are some grammar examples that make my head hurt:

1) His use of the word "alleviate" floored me. I need some meds to alleviate my aching head.
2) His constant use of capitalization - either entire words, entire sentences, first letter of a particular word.
3) His term "E-something" vs. just saying "enlisted". I guess the AF is made up of nothing but E-somethings and O-somethings.
4) His use of quotation marks when not quoting. ("sing", "stupid", "learning", etc.) I can picture him (maybe her) pulling fingers off the keyboard to give air quotation marks (i.e. bunny ears) as he types those particular words.
5) Last, but not least - his complete lack of brevity. (Bottom line and rock bottom line? :doh) His basic e-mail was too long and then he had to add a post script almost as long intended for those he acknowledges are ignoring everything he says anyway?:loco

If E-9 DB happens to read this (maybe someone can send him an e-mail pointing him toward this forum), I suggest you immediately retire and begin an immediate and extended regimen of high-colonic therapy. (http://highcolonic.org/) I can only pray that the fecal matter so firmly impacted between your ears will eventually flush out. If not, when you retire please do not live within driving distance of any AF base. I would be worried that even as a retired E-9 you would be jacking up airmen in the Commissary parking lot to hear them recite the Creed and sing the song.

KellyinAvon
09-04-2011, 02:45 PM
If the numerical designation of the wing/base in the posted email is accurate, then this is our E9 (http://www.386aew.afcent.af.mil/library/biographies/bio.asp?id=14701). Personally, I plan to stay as FAAAAAAAARRRRRR away as humanly possible.

I do happen to know the AF song (no one EVER sings more than the first verse anyway), but if put on the spot, I can and probably will freeze and convince whomever that I have a strong case of stage fright. That goes double for the creed, which I will stick to the line of currently engaging, or whatever will get him out of my face.

Anyone remember ALF? I loved the question he asked Will Tanner, and it's apt for this situation, and should be addressed to the AF in general: "Why must you needlessly complicate EVERYTHING???"

ALF was the greatest.

KellyinAvon
09-04-2011, 02:56 PM
Obviously a top candiate for CMSAF. This DB E-9 needs to spend more time improving his writing skills than promoting such BS. Here are some grammar examples that make my head hurt:

1) His use of the word "alleviate" floored me. I need some meds to alleviate my aching head.
2) His constant use of capitalization - either entire words, entire sentences, first letter of a particular word.
3) His term "E-something" vs. just saying "enlisted". I guess the AF is made up of nothing but E-somethings and O-somethings.
4) His use of quotation marks when not quoting. ("sing", "stupid", "learning", etc.) I can picture him (maybe her) pulling fingers off the keyboard to give air quotation marks (i.e. bunny ears) as he types those particular words.
5) Last, but not least - his complete lack of brevity. (Bottom line and rock bottom line? :doh) His basic e-mail was too long and then he had to add a post script almost as long intended for those he acknowledges are ignoring everything he says anyway?:loco

If E-9 DB happens to read this (maybe someone can send him an e-mail pointing him toward this forum), I suggest you immediately retire and begin an immediate and extended regimen of high-colonic therapy. (http://highcolonic.org/) I can only pray that the fecal matter so firmly impacted between your ears will eventually flush out. If not, when you retire please do not live within driving distance of any AF base. I would be worried that even as a retired E-9 you would be jacking up airmen in the Commissary parking lot to hear them recite the Creed and sing the song.
Sometime in the not really that distant past this guy was a young SSgt-TSgt. I'd love to find some of the then-TSgts and MSgts who were this a$$clown's supervisor/raters-rater types and let them know somewhere along the line THEY FAILED in their most important responsibility because this guy is a galactic proportion Charlie Foxtrot. If he is one of my old troops I'll go off the grid or the net or whatever you go off of when you don't want to be found.

Outback 1982
09-04-2011, 03:26 PM
Total Tool that is leading from the rear!!!! At Vance, this Ass-Clown chose to snub the enlisted folks. Took the side of the Union. Barf!!!!!!

Shrike
09-04-2011, 03:35 PM
Assuming this is real and not PT God-style satire, well, I'm speechless. It reads like a parody. I mean, "vector this, vector that"...really?

My current duties leave me somewhat detached from the standard "assigned to Base X" format. But, at my previous assignment, I was fully engaged with the Chiefs Group and, I swear, nobody talked like this. Not even the Command Chiefs. The Command Chiefs were down-to-earth guys. I enjoyed going to Chiefs Group meetings. If they were like the tool writing that e-mail, I wouldn't have.
I, for one, am glad to hear that.

BRUWIN
09-04-2011, 06:07 PM
Assuming this is real and not PT God-style satire, well, I'm speechless. It reads like a parody. I mean, "vector this, vector that"...really?

My current duties leave me somewhat detached from the standard "assigned to Base X" format. But, at my previous assignment, I was fully engaged with the Chiefs Group and, I swear, nobody talked like this. Not even the Command Chiefs. The Command Chiefs were down-to-earth guys. I enjoyed going to Chiefs Group meetings. If they were like the tool writing that e-mail, I wouldn't have.

It's funny...we don't recite the creed at our Chief groups meetings but we do the pledge of allegience. Most Chief's I know really don't care for the creed.

Also...this guy had mentioned Chief Roy as the guy that expected everyone to know the creed. It actually was Chief McKinley that shoved the creed down our throats...not Roy. McKinley came to USAFE while I was there and was pissed when people didn't know the creed.

ScarlettGTO
09-04-2011, 07:55 PM
How difficult would it be to make up a fake email, toss this guy the link to this forum on his GOV and not get caught? Some people need to see unfiltered thought that their actions provoke.

To the Chiefs in here, I am embarrassed for you for this guy having the same rank as you.

OtisRNeedleman
09-04-2011, 08:04 PM
Was just thinking..better be glad this clown isn't in charge of the base chow hall. He'd probably have you get a waist measurement just to enter the facility, recite the Creed to sign in, sing the Air Force song to get a tray, and do who knows what to actually get your food. Reminds me of something out of Catch-22.

Shrike
09-04-2011, 08:13 PM
Was just thinking..better be glad this clown isn't in charge of the base chow hall. He'd probably have you get a waist measurement just to enter the facility, recite the Creed to sign in, sing the Air Force song to get a tray, and do who knows what to actually get your food. Reminds me of something out of Catch-22.
Maybe it's his name - Chief Chief Chief Chief. :)

imported_Gigglendorf
09-04-2011, 08:54 PM
Guess this tool forgot his Chief's Creed....

You are aware, of course, that when the Airmen's Creed was introduced, part of the sales pitch was that it REPLACES ALL previously existing creeds and charges, right?

If this E-9 buys the crap he's spewing, then he believes there's no Chief's Creed to live up to.

BigBaze
09-04-2011, 09:00 PM
In all this drivel he failed to include any kind of "resiliency". I guess resiliency must be so last year.

theyard
09-05-2011, 12:03 AM
This sounds exactly like something my old First Sgt would do that I had back in Misawa in '08 and '09. If you got called to his office he would want you to recite the creed even if you were just popping in to ask his help with something. He deployed to Balad with us and did a dorm inspection around the 2nd night we were there and I mean late at night. He was pissed because the guys we were taking over for were still there so we hadn't had a chance to put all of our stuff up. So he dragged all of us out into the hallway, made us stand at attention and recite the creed with him. He tried to do it a few more times but we got smart and put signs on our doors that said "DO NOT DISTURB, UNDER MANDATORY 8 HOURS UNINTERRUPTED SLEEP IAW AFI 21-101" and he backed off finally. He also got the word from our leadership that we would go to the IG if it continued. Speaking of the dorms there. They had dorm inspections and whoever had the cleanest one would win $500 to go to improvements on the dorm (TV, vacuums, microwaves, etc.). We won 2 in a row and never saw any of that $1000 from him. He had Senior on before I left in '09 so not sure if he would have made Chief by now. I should look him up and see where he is.

ART
09-05-2011, 12:30 AM
Lemay is rolling over in his grave.

ConfusedAirman
09-05-2011, 02:10 AM
I went through again to see how much force he is putting behind this and if he intends to consider his e-mailed policy as an order. Maybe someone at his location will see this thread and provide additional information.


If you're one who either complained about the 5MT, or openly refused
to comply.you're still on the hook. If you're a Supervisor who failed to
lead your Airmen to success.you're still on the hook. If you think this is
over, think again. You are NOT DONE, and that will become even clearer in
the future.

"Still on the hook"? "...,think again"? "...,will become even clearer in the future"? What will he do?


I will periodically ask folks if they know it. If they say yes, I
may recite or sing along WITH them. I will ask how they gained their
success. I will ask if they were vector checked buy their immediate
Supervisor. The answers THEY GIVE will tell me who Led and Followed
appropriately. If they say they don't know it.there will be tougher
questions.

"Tougher questions"? Maybe break out the spotlamp and rubber hoses? Maybe some waterboarding is in order?


WHAT I HAVE HEARD: Some thought the 5MT was "stupid" so they QUIT on day one
and TOLD others to blow it off as well. Instead of shaping the environment
through followership and discipline they chose to ACCEPT or even DIRECT
failure. That is intolerable.

"Intolerable"? Just what is he going to do? If he can't tolerate it, maybe he either lowers his expectations or leaves.


WAY AHEAD: Right now, I don't even know who fits into what demographic.But
I'm about to find out. I'll see who knows it or not. If they don't know it,
I'll ask how much time they put into "learning". I'll ask for their
immediate supervisor's name. I'll ask what their Supervisor did to ensure
their success. I'll ask if they were vector checked by their immediate
Supervisor. That should tell me enough to categorize those who failed.and
those who let them fail. Then they will BOTH make it right. It's called
accountability. In this game, everyone gets a trophy.

"I'm about to find out"? He hopes, just like he hopes "they will BOTH make it right". I do get a kick out of his idea that
"everyone gets a trophy". Is he giving out hugs with those trophies?

JD2780
09-05-2011, 02:21 AM
I hope I go through there and this asshat asks me if I know it. I'll say No Chief and press on with life. Truly pathetic.

insidiousbookworm
09-05-2011, 06:30 AM
As I previously stated in this thread, I am at this particular base and this is absolutely true. So I do have his name (which I won't post), and I have actually gotten this particular email. Heck, the base has already been mentioned a few times, so anyone should be able to find out his name, if you're really interested.

As to how serious it is, I don't know. It really doesn't seem like anyone else is really into it. I only got here a couple weeks ago after spending 3 months in Iraq. None of my new leadership--to include my Chief, my SMSgt supervisor, or my 1st Sgt--felt this it was important enough to mention. The first that I had heard of this was that email, which I recieved on 1 September. He stated that he has asked 11 Airmen to recite, but I haven't witnessed this yet.

And as for the whole "5MT" deal, he also has 1-Meter Targets posted. This message is just as long, and deals with personal appearance and such. I have yet to see any sort of message from him that is not at least 4 pages long.

So, I actually fall into category 1, and I'll actually be due to leave once my "50 days to meet the 5MT requirements" are up. We'll see.

If I get cornered, I'll be sure to post.

BadHairCut
09-05-2011, 06:57 AM
Coercing people to embrace the new AF Culture and heritage via a vaguely threatening blue koolade-soaked mass e-mail pretentiously spiked with inappropriate flyboy jargon seems like the wrong approach.

Call me crazy, but using one’s positional bully pulpit to force feed ‘inspiration and motivation’ upon the masses will only result in the opposite.

What’s next - forcing everyone to get AF Origami symbol tattoos...at gunpoint?

ScarlettGTO
09-05-2011, 08:02 AM
In all honesty I am glad he is an E-9. It just means that he is on his way out the door. If he was a SSgt to a MSgt then I would be worried. He would still have a substantial amount of time to kill the AF bit by bit.

imported_StandardsAMust
09-05-2011, 08:34 AM
http://www.386aew.afcent.af.mil/library/

insidiousbookworm
09-05-2011, 09:00 AM
In all honesty I am glad he is an E-9. It just means that he is on his way out the door. If he was a SSgt to a MSgt then I would be worried. He would still have a substantial amount of time to kill the AF bit by bit.

He's not out until 2014, by the way. So a few more years to excel.

MajesticThunder
09-05-2011, 11:46 AM
Abysmal leadership alive and well in pompous action on X Air Base, with smoking gun government e-mail evidence available for all to judge. :eek:

When will an effective cure be found for growing vain and besmirched USAF leadership epidemic?

Demoralizing and mission distracting venom needs to be purged. :whip

Coercive power is problematic and no doubt leads to abuse. It causes unhealthy mentorship, unease, and dissatisfaction across the Air Force.

Culprit has been named and shamed. Who has the guts to act? :doh

Wing commander, it’s time to make hard call immediately or pack your bags for condoning an adverse leadership culture to creep unchecked into your expeditionary outpost during your watch.

CSAF its time to step up and rid at least one obvious tentacle of lame subordinate leadership; be part of a robust top down solution not part of the irksome problem.

Start here with this living negative example of misdirected leadership energy and focus.

This is not a “Doolie” BCT or BMT training environment situation; it’s a frontline, mission ready deployed active duty station.

Undignified “E-something” mocking drivel, hazing tone, subtle implied negative threats and wink of punishment are common tools of coercion in a very unhealthy “work” environment. :pout

Any hint that someone will be held to account for a creed and song recital as directed evokes a Caine Mutiny crazy scenario. :crazy

Chain of command take note! :attention

Who still has full confidence that right people are in correct positions at this mission critical war supporting location?

Undue pressure is undesirable and translates into hidden code for a toxic breeding ground of discontent which undermines teamwork, readiness, and safety. :help

While a Command Chief or any other leadership position may give some capability to so called professionally coerce others, it doesn't automatically mean that you have any mission focused justification to do so.

Ramming a mass coercive power e-leadership diktat or less is sure sign of a counterproductive, craven, and caustic leader. Pathetic! :censored

Send this asinine “Non-Command Chief” clown and any enablers packing, but before they move toward designated homes of selection provide one lasting lesson on leadership by mandating a dose of their own wicked medicine to memorize and recite these more fitting quotes:




“A leader is best when people barely know he exists; not so good when people obey and acclaim him.

Worse when they despise him.

But of a good leader, who talks little, when his work is done; his aim fulfilled, they will say: “We did it ourselves.”

Lao Tse


“Rank is given you to enable you to better serve those above and below you it is not given for you to practice your idiosyncrasies.”

GEN Bruce Clarke


“The test of a leader lies in the reaction and response of his followers. He should not have to impose authority.

Bossiness in itself never made a leader He must make his influence felt by example and the instilling of confidence in his followers. The greatness of a leader is measured by the achievements of the led. This is the ultimate test of his effectiveness.”

GEN Omar Bradley

“A leader should possess human understanding for others. Men are not robots and should not be treated as though they were machines. I do not by any means suggest coddling. But men are highly intelligent, complicated beings who will respond favorably to human understanding and

By this means their leader will get maximum effort from each of them.

He will also get loyalty; and in this connection, it is well to remember that loyalty goes down as well as up.”

GEN Omar Bradley

“A competent leader can get efficient service from poor troops; while, on the contrary, an incapable leader can demoralize the best of troops.”

GEN John Pershing

“All of us who are fortunate enough to be in leadership positions now and those who aspire to lead soldiers in the future must hone our skills so that we can be the best leaders possible.

Our soldiers want leaders who are willing to share their hardships, who are totally concerned with their welfare, and who are willing to place personal ambitions secondary to the needs of their troops or units. We must provide the direction, the counsel, and the good example to insure the concepts of excellence are firmly established in those under our supervision.”

GEN Roscoe Robinson, Jr.

KellyinAvon
09-05-2011, 12:46 PM
This is beginning to look like a couple orders of magnitude beyond the silliness I saw at the Deid in 05. Even at Balad that was getting mortared 3 times a day (thankfully the bad guys were not very good shots) there was REMF crap. A couple thoughts:
1: The Wing King can replace anybody if he/she "loses confidence" in the individual. Command Chief getting replaced in the AOR is nothing new. Didn't CMSAF Roy sub for the CCM at Salem when the previous CCM lost the confidence of the Wing King? Creating caustic environment detrimental to the morale of deployed forces would cause me to lose confidence but I'm not the 386 AEW/CC.
2: The guy has just under 3 years til he hits 30. Anybody want this guy as CCM at your base next summer?
3: Is this guy the overzealous water boy for the Wing Leadership who is actually pushing this agenda? The Wing CC won't lose confidence if he is behind it.
4: Hopefully #3 is not correct, if it is this is much worse than we think.

BadHairCut
09-05-2011, 01:10 PM
This is beginning to look like a couple orders of magnitude beyond the silliness I saw at the Deid in 05. Even at Balad that was getting mortared 3 times a day (thankfully the bad guys were not very good shots) there was REMF crap. A couple thoughts:
1: The Wing King can replace anybody if he/she "loses confidence" in the individual. Command Chief getting replaced in the AOR is nothing new. Didn't CMSAF Roy sub for the CCM at Salem when the previous CCM lost the confidence of the Wing King? Creating caustic environment detrimental to the morale of deployed forces would cause me to lose confidence but I'm not the 386 AEW/CC.
2: The guy has just under 3 years til he hits 30. Anybody want this guy as CCM at your base next summer?
3: Is this guy the overzealous water boy for the Wing Leadership who is actually pushing this agenda? The Wing CC won't lose confidence if he is behind it. 4: Hopefully #3 is not correct, if it is this is much worse than we think.

You'd think that if this were the case, there'd be a companion e-mail from the CC to all the "O-somethings." Wouldn't want to give the appearance of the Wing only requiring slavish obedience from the Enlisted force. After all, we are all capital "A" Airmen, right? RIGHT???

EOMFD/GFYM8
09-05-2011, 02:35 PM
OK, I'm willing to lay this out there since I really don't give a shit. I'd call out any fellow SNCO for being a douche bag on this monumental scale.

The guys name is Chief Master Sgt. Mitchell Balutski, 386th AEW Command Chief, Ali Al Salem Air Base, Kuwait.

If he stops me or any of my guys when we're on our way through after trudging through Afghanistan, getting shot at and blown up, I'm going to tell him to get the fuck out of my face and see what kind of conviction he has when someone actually doesn't cower in front of him like a basic trainee.

ConfusedAirman
09-05-2011, 04:07 PM
Here's an interesting pic of this tool. Hard to tell which one is Balutski.

http://d3.static.dvidshub.net/media/thumbs/258w/photos/1107/423890_q75.jpg

Here is part of a speech he made at a SNCO induction ceremony.
http://www.386aew.afcent.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123268612

"We all have spaces, as military members, and that space is to follow orders, to follow standards, to meet those requirements for as long as we are wearing this uniform," said Chief Balutski. "We as enlisted members, you as future strategic enlisted leaders by virtue of what you do, and who you are, your space involves filling the void, whatever those voids may be."

Whether it is a professional void or a personal void that you see in the people you heed, he added.

"Your job, your charge, your responsibility is to fill those voids," said Chief Balutski. "Whenever they become apparent, if you fail to fill these voids, fill your space, someone or something will come behind you and take your place."

MKopack
09-05-2011, 04:13 PM
First off, let me say that this response comes from an ex-Sgt, Crew Chief, who has been out of the AF for over twenty years.

If your Command Chief, your unit's First Sgt., or even your direct Supervision walks up to you and the first thing out of their mouths isn't "What can I do to make your job and life easier while you're deployed", then they're not doing their jobs. Sounds to me like someone who has realized that they don't have much to do with the real mission has let their authority go to their heads. Somewhere its gotten lost that it the MISSION that matters.

I spent seven months in Doha, Qatar, during Desert Shield and Storm, wearing Hawaiian shirts, shorts and flip-flops off duty, eating pistachios and drinking smuggled rum - maybe not the 'Yankee Air Pirate' of SEA (of course, as a maintainer, my feet stayed on the ground) but I gave it my best shot. Haircuts? We didn't even have a barber for the first couple of months in country. On duty, I worked phase and the flightline wearing a set of non-steeltoed jungle boots, wearing mail-order desert BDU's with no patches, rank, name or US Air Force tapes and my boonie hat rolled up like a cowboy, and you know what? Our commander said "Mike, I don't care what rank you are, or what your uniform looks like, what I care about is having our jets ready to fly each morning."

Our mission as maintainers was to support the pilots that we sent north each day of the war, to give them the best aircraft that we could to give them the best chance of coming back to us each night, and every minute we were there to support the two that we had to leave in Iraq as POW's until the war ended. That was the only mission that was important, not supporting some pencil-pushing want-to-be authority figure on an ego trip. While we had our share of those as well, we had Wing and flying Squadron Commanders who quickly put them in their places.

Our only mission was the MISSION, and frankly, we kicked its ass, day in and day out. The enemy feared us, and not because of our "Creed" to our ability to recite the Air Force song. "Warheads on Foreheads" is the Air Force's mission, and if you are not directly accomplishing that mission you're a supporter, and you need to find out how your own role fits in. Those of you who are over there fighting for all of us who are safe at home might not be able to directly go out and win this war for us, but all of us losing sight of the REAL MISSION could certainly lose it.

Mike

EOMFD/GFYM8
09-05-2011, 05:07 PM
Here is part of a speech he made at a SNCO induction ceremony.
http://www.386aew.afcent.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123268612

"We all have spaces, as military members, and that space is to follow orders, to follow standards, to meet those requirements for as long as we are wearing this uniform," said Chief Balutski. "We as enlisted members, you as future strategic enlisted leaders by virtue of what you do, and who you are, your space involves filling the void, whatever those voids may be."

Whether it is a professional void or a personal void that you see in the people you heed, he added.

"Your job, your charge, your responsibility is to fill those voids," said Chief Balutski. "Whenever they become apparent, if you fail to fill these voids, fill your space, someone or something will come behind you and take your place."



Oh, my God...he's making it too easy! Void filling? Someone coming up behind you and "filling your space"? I could go on...

ScarlettGTO
09-05-2011, 05:11 PM
MK,

Sadly some O and E leaders have lost sight of that style of mission. We have been at war for 10 years and in the big scheme of the AF very few people have been called upon to fill that front line roll. Your PJ's, CCT, TACP's, very few SF, some LRS and a handful of other AFSC's that I know I have left out fill those rolls. Everyone else, even those mentioned are in the rear doing what needs to be done to support all those war fighters out there and they do a damn good job of it. Without the giant chex mix of operations that is the AF....we would be just an airline.

The AF has struggled to find its place in these wars and it has bred the stupidity that we see coming from this E-9. So many people have wanted the AF to be the door kicking, skull cracking, hajji killing, Osama finding, ground pounders like the Marines and Army. We aren't that at all and will never be! So all you Generals up top can stop the dick measuring, be proud of your AF like we down below want to be again.

When leadership realizes that then the AF will go back to being the AF. We will no longer be some annoying little brother who is having an identity crisis while following his badass, ground pounding brothers around. We are the smart, technically proficient branch of the service but when people come out with stupid "5MT" piles of shit we are no longer the smart, technically proficient branch but the waterhead over in the corner with eyes pointing east and west, drooling on ourselves.

EOMFD/GFYM8
09-05-2011, 05:21 PM
Does anyone have a link to all the XX "Meter Targets"? I must see them all!

ScarlettGTO
09-05-2011, 05:36 PM
Is anyone going to make up an email address and guide this tool to this forum?

BENDER56
09-05-2011, 06:35 PM
I spent seven months in Doha, Qatar, during Desert Shield and Storm, wearing Hawaiian shirts, shorts and flip-flops off duty, eating pistachios and drinking smuggled rum - maybe not the 'Yankee Air Pirate' of SEA (of course, as a maintainer, my feet stayed on the ground) but I gave it my best shot. Haircuts? We didn't even have a barber for the first couple of months in country. On duty, I worked phase and the flightline wearing a set of non-steeltoed jungle boots, wearing mail-order desert BDU's with no patches, rank, name or US Air Force tapes and my boonie hat rolled up like a cowboy, and you know what? Our commander said "Mike, I don't care what rank you are, or what your uniform looks like, what I care about is having our jets ready to fly each morning."

I was at al Udeid when that ended in '04. I arrived on 12 June with a half-dozen Hawaiian shirts, some cargo shorts and sandals. I got to enjoy lounging around in those for about two weeks when the order came down that all members would henceforth wear appropriate workout clothing while off-duty. That meant T-shirts (not sleeveless and long enough to cover the abdomen), plain gym shorts (no pockets, belts, snaps, zippers, etc.), white socks (length didn't matter back then) and gym shoes. I was able to comply easily because I had planned on working out every day so I had plenty of workout clothes, but there were lots of people who didn't (even though they should have due to the PT standards in effect at the time.) I remember going to one of the off-base malls and buying a boatload of gym shorts so the people in my unit had something to wear off-duty. Keep in mind this was at the very beginning of a three-month deployment and this rule wasn't in effect when we were briefed about what to bring with us, not to mention the three-day minimum turnaround on laundry meant you had to have a bit extra of each item.

The rumor was that this all happened because a few weeks earlier some big-high muck-a-mucks came through the base (CSAF? SECAF? I don't remember.) and were appalled at the amount of skin being shown. Supposedly the last straw was they went to services in the Chapel and sat next to some babes wearing halter tops. Anyone else know if this is true?

Also, there's not much I can add about what an assclown this E-9 is, other than to say every time I log on to this site retirement seems to get better and better.

p.s. I should add this made the rest of my deployment suck as it was decided that we 1st Sgts should bear the onus of ensuring everyone complied with the new standards. Thus was the beginning of the "Uniform Nazis" of the 'Deid.

Airman Integrity
09-05-2011, 06:58 PM
I am a long time lurker on this site and have rarely found much to really get my blood pressure up. I am a career maintenance guy that was asked to serve as a command chief. I did not seek out the position, if I had my druthers, I would much rather put iron in the air. I am a Chief that believe's in the all in theory and this is what the Air Force has asked me to do, so I comply. I have contemplated hitting the retirement button time and time again over the past few years because the Air Force is going down a path that I don't necessarily agree with...I have many sleepless nights worrying about our Airmen. I can honestly say I slept better when I was responsible for aircraft and their maintainers than I do now. My wife and I think we have finally come to a decision to retire and then I read stuff like this. I feel like I am turning my back on the Airmen because I always said when I got in a position to make a difference I was going to. I still remember bending wrenches on the line with rain blowing down my back and the expeditor would drive up, honk his horn and make me stop what I was doing, walk to him so I could tell him how much longer until I had the aircraft crew ready. I promised myself to clear all that muck out of the way and allow Airmen accomplish the mission when given that power. I feel like I am a salmon swimming against the current with some of my peers. This type of stuff is gaining ground and I am losing ground daily on what is important. I know the Airmen's Creed and the AF Song, but that does not make me any better at what I do. Why as leaders we continue to chase mice when there are elephants in the room amazes me. The reasons to go are certainly gaining ground on the reasons to stay. My fear is that I am not alone and many of the great Chiefs that I know will agree in frustration and bail as well leaving all of my Air Force bretheren with a mess I could have helped fix.

BRUWIN
09-05-2011, 08:26 PM
I am a long time lurker on this site and have rarely found much to really get my blood pressure up. I am a career maintenance guy that was asked to serve as a command chief. I did not seek out the position, if I had my druthers, I would much rather put iron in the air. I am a Chief that believe's in the all in theory and this is what the Air Force has asked me to do, so I comply. I have contemplated hitting the retirement button time and time again over the past few years because the Air Force is going down a path that I don't necessarily agree with...I have many sleepless nights worrying about our Airmen. I can honestly say I slept better when I was responsible for aircraft and their maintainers than I do now. My wife and I think we have finally come to a decision to retire and then I read stuff like this. I feel like I am turning my back on the Airmen because I always said when I got in a position to make a difference I was going to. I still remember bending wrenches on the line with rain blowing down my back and the expeditor would drive up, honk his horn and make me stop what I was doing, walk to him so I could tell him how much longer until I had the aircraft crew ready. I promised myself to clear all that muck out of the way and allow Airmen accomplish the mission when given that power. I feel like I am a salmon swimming against the current with some of my peers. This type of stuff is gaining ground and I am losing ground daily on what is important. I know the Airmen's Creed and the AF Song, but that does not make me any better at what I do. Why as leaders we continue to chase mice when there are elephants in the room amazes me. The reasons to go are certainly gaining ground on the reasons to stay. My fear is that I am not alone and many of the great Chiefs that I know will agree in frustration and bail as well leaving all of my Air Force bretheren with a mess I could have helped fix.

Very well said. It sums things up for a lot of people I'm afraid. The only thing keeping my sanity right now is I work for a CC that I pretty much sees eye to eye with me on a lot of the insanity going on. To be honest...we laugh at a lot of it. It doesn't help things but I feel less like a "salmon swimming against rthe current" when I can laugh about things. I have gotten myself in some heated debate on some of the stupid issues with my peers...it's like banging one's head against the wall. It's almost a culture now...any longer and I don't know if we can ever recover.

KellyinAvon
09-05-2011, 08:39 PM
I am a long time lurker on this site and have rarely found much to really get my blood pressure up. I am a career maintenance guy that was asked to serve as a command chief. I did not seek out the position, if I had my druthers, I would much rather put iron in the air. I am a Chief that believe's in the all in theory and this is what the Air Force has asked me to do, so I comply. I have contemplated hitting the retirement button time and time again over the past few years because the Air Force is going down a path that I don't necessarily agree with...I have many sleepless nights worrying about our Airmen. I can honestly say I slept better when I was responsible for aircraft and their maintainers than I do now. My wife and I think we have finally come to a decision to retire and then I read stuff like this. I feel like I am turning my back on the Airmen because I always said when I got in a position to make a difference I was going to. I still remember bending wrenches on the line with rain blowing down my back and the expeditor would drive up, honk his horn and make me stop what I was doing, walk to him so I could tell him how much longer until I had the aircraft crew ready. I promised myself to clear all that muck out of the way and allow Airmen accomplish the mission when given that power. I feel like I am a salmon swimming against the current with some of my peers. This type of stuff is gaining ground and I am losing ground daily on what is important. I know the Airmen's Creed and the AF Song, but that does not make me any better at what I do. Why as leaders we continue to chase mice when there are elephants in the room amazes me. The reasons to go are certainly gaining ground on the reasons to stay. My fear is that I am not alone and many of the great Chiefs that I know will agree in frustration and bail as well leaving all of my Air Force bretheren with a mess I could have helped fix.
Keep swimming Chief! Chief Salmon (with a fish avatar) would be an excellent forum name.

KellyinAvon
09-05-2011, 08:42 PM
Here's an interesting pic of this tool. Hard to tell which one is Balutski.

http://d3.static.dvidshub.net/media/thumbs/258w/photos/1107/423890_q75.jpg

Here is part of a speech he made at a SNCO induction ceremony.
http://www.386aew.afcent.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123268612

"We all have spaces, as military members, and that space is to follow orders, to follow standards, to meet those requirements for as long as we are wearing this uniform," said Chief Balutski. "We as enlisted members, you as future strategic enlisted leaders by virtue of what you do, and who you are, your space involves filling the void, whatever those voids may be."

Whether it is a professional void or a personal void that you see in the people you heed, he added.

"Your job, your charge, your responsibility is to fill those voids," said Chief Balutski. "Whenever they become apparent, if you fail to fill these voids, fill your space, someone or something will come behind you and take your place."


OK, I'll ask, "SPACES??? VOIDS??? WTF-OVER??!!"

akruse
09-05-2011, 09:24 PM
OK, I'll ask, "SPACES??? VOIDS??? WTF-OVER??!!"

Kind of reminds me of "known unknowns"...

ConfusedAirman
09-05-2011, 09:25 PM
Is anyone going to make up an email address and guide this tool to this forum?

Will do when I get to work to look up his e-mail. Could probably take a stab - isn't it first.last@us.centaf.mil, or something like that?

grimreaper
09-05-2011, 11:03 PM
Here's an interesting pic of this tool. Hard to tell which one is Balutski.

http://d3.static.dvidshub.net/media/thumbs/258w/photos/1107/423890_q75.jpg

Here is part of a speech he made at a SNCO induction ceremony.
http://www.386aew.afcent.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123268612

"We all have spaces, as military members, and that space is to follow orders, to follow standards, to meet those requirements for as long as we are wearing this uniform," said Chief Balutski. "We as enlisted members, you as future strategic enlisted leaders by virtue of what you do, and who you are, your space involves filling the void, whatever those voids may be."

Whether it is a professional void or a personal void that you see in the people you heed, he added.

"Your job, your charge, your responsibility is to fill those voids," said Chief Balutski. "Whenever they become apparent, if you fail to fill these voids, fill your space, someone or something will come behind you and take your place."



Are those sunglasses I see hanging around his neck? I thought that wasn't allowed?

grimreaper
09-05-2011, 11:04 PM
OK, I'll ask, "SPACES??? VOIDS??? WTF-OVER??!!"

I'll take a shot a this one Alex...

What is the emptiness between his ears?

BRUWIN
09-05-2011, 11:43 PM
Are those sunglasses I see hanging around his neck? I thought that wasn't allowed?

Most places in theater allow it and it's local written policy depending on where your at.

grimreaper
09-06-2011, 12:11 AM
Most places in theater allow it and it's local written policy depending on where your at.

I guess it's where I was. That was looked at like having the floppy hat hanging around your neck.

ScarlettGTO
09-06-2011, 12:41 AM
Will do when I get to work to look up his e-mail. Could probably take a stab - isn't it first.last@us.centaf.mil, or something like that?

Yeah probably something like or just an af.mil that was supposed to go AF wide a few years back.

I just think it would be hilarious for him to stroll into this forum to see all of this.

ScarlettGTO
09-06-2011, 12:50 AM
Maybe he will get caught up in some N.A.M.B.L.A. Gurney style swinger shit, make the front of AF Times, get bumped down to AB and disappear.

Wishful thinking I know.

BRUWIN
09-06-2011, 02:23 AM
Yeah probably something like or just an af.mil that was supposed to go AF wide a few years back.

I just think it would be hilarious for him to stroll into this forum to see all of this.

If he does visit this forum you guys are in big big trouble. I now agree with everything he has written (I was only faking before) and I will tell on everybody that said bad things about 5MT. I just googled the creed and in the process of memorizing so I'm covered...damn this thing is kinda out there. "Avenger" ??? WTF is that all about?

akruse
09-06-2011, 02:24 AM
If he does visit this forum you guys are in big big trouble. I now agree with everything he has written (I was only faking before) and I will tell on everybody that said bad things about 5MT. I just googled the creed and in the process of memorizing so I'm covered...damn this thing is kinda out there. "Avenger" ??? WTF is that all about?

Standard :)

grimreaper
09-06-2011, 02:32 AM
If he does visit this forum you guys are in big big trouble. I now agree with everything he has written (I was only faking before) and I will tell on everybody that said bad things about 5MT. I just googled the creed and in the process of memorizing so I'm covered...damn this thing is kinda out there. "Avenger" ??? WTF is that all about?

Damn skippy. You're a sentry AND avenger...don't forget a sword and shield...and who could possibly forget the Wingman, Leader, Warrior too.

Did you know you could be all those at once? See what downsizing has done? Before, we could have one Airman for each of those roles, but multitasking is the new norm.

BRUWIN
09-06-2011, 02:34 AM
Standard :)

Hey...like they always say, if you can't beat them join them. BTW...If anybody finds a spare backbone laying around please return it to me.

wxjumper
09-06-2011, 04:55 AM
The rumor was that this all happened because a few weeks earlier some big-high muck-a-mucks came through the base (CSAF? SECAF? I don't remember.) and were appalled at the amount of skin being shown. Supposedly the last straw was they went to services in the Chapel and sat next to some babes wearing halter tops. Anyone else know if this is true?



I wouldn’t doubt it at all. I know back in early 2004 when I came through the Deid on my way home from a 7 month deployment in Iraq, the culture shock I received when I stepped off the C-17 and went to “The Bra” in my battle worn fatigues was greater than the culture shock I received stepping off the rotator in the U.S. after being deployed for more than half a year.

Even I have to admit that things were getting out of hand at the Deid at the time and it did not make the Air Force look good at all. Even I was embarrassed for us when I stepped off that plane at the Died in early 2004. We did not look good in the eyes of the other services rotating through the Deid on their way in and out of combat zones at the time.

wxjumper
09-06-2011, 04:56 AM
Any chance that the Air Force times notices this thread and writes a story on this ass-clown? Something like “Command Chief out-of-control” or “Command Chief misses big on front line priorities”.

grimreaper
09-06-2011, 05:04 AM
Any chance that the Air Force times notices this thread and writes a story on this ass-clown? Something like “Command Chief out-of-control” or “Command Chief misses big on front line priorities”.

Maybe a facebook page like the disco belts?

insidiousbookworm
09-06-2011, 05:15 AM
Well, if he isn't reading it, at least someone here is. Here's the latest and greatest email--I did take out two words that are sort of mission related, but that doesn't affect the message at all.

Oh, and it looks like the driving factor for all of this is... Embarassment.



"BLUF: Answers to Airman’s Creed and Air Force Song requirements.

Never thought I’d be compelled to answer the “Why’s” on this AGAIN, but after the Wing Chaplain asked for a sit-down with me this morning he passed on a perspective I hadn’t thought about.

The Chaplain was worried about all the negative talk, blogs, and emails floating around cyberspace about my 5MT’s that he wanted to make sure I was aware of it. I told him that I was aware of everything since day 1, since I somewhat expected it. This wasn’t the first time I had used this particular 5MT. Then he asked me for more in-depth reasons behind the 5MTs I issue to the Enlisted, so I provided a few STRATEGIC reasons in short order. Basically, because he asked. After that short discussion, he fervently asked that I share those with you as well. I said that I would do so eventually…but he asked me again “with conviction” that I do it sooner as opposed to later. So I will.

Here goes:
In my first 5MT email I talked about changing the way we execute the Airman’s Creed and AF Song in public forums. Forums that are hosted by the Wing CC…my Boss. In other 5MT’s I talked about wear of the uniform issues and representing your units while you’re out and about on this base. You were asked to be Wingmen, Leaders, and Warriors in those regards as well.

Now why would those be important? Two very basic reasons. Uniformity and discipline.
Great in theory, but only worthwhile if we have an execution piece. That execution piece is right in front of us…and will continue to grow.

Over the course of the next few months all eyes will be on this wing. Many high-level officials will be coming here to put eyes on our efforts. Senators, Congressmen, Service Secretaries, Senior COCOM leaders, and maybe even higher. Many of those folks will request an Airman’s call where we pack a couple hundred people into our Theater for a forum.
As is the tradition, those forums will afford us TWO times where WE can execute something as a WING. Those times are when we recite the AC and sing the AFS. The very first time we did this as a wing was in a word…embarrassing. We can’t have that happen.

Since 90% of those voices will be ENLISTED, 90% of the opportunity to show uniformity in those LIMITED engagements will be OURS. Similarly, 90% of the opportunity to look disjointed will be ours as well. Say what you may, but this is where we can collectively show pride for those Marauders not in attendance . Granted, there’s no technical sense or mission sense in reciting the Creed or Singing the Song. But for those who can and will, you can make a statement about being an American Airman and a Marauder. I’m confident that we’ll display being of one function, form, and voice during those Airman’s calls on the horizon. One of those is tomorrow afternoon and the CC will be leading us all in the Airman’s Creed and the AF Song. We won’t let him down.

Our elected officials won’t get to see us perform at the tactical level and won’t watch our Aircrews as they maintain a 98% mission effectiveness rate. They won’t see the countless hours on post or our “hot & dirty” maintainers turning wrenches on the flight line. They’ll mostly get a mission brief and driving tour before an Airman’s call. What I hope they DO see in the Airman’s calls is the equivalent of the Pacific Islands’ “Haka”…a coordinated activity executed in unison to show that all of us are inextricable joined in the fight. Will this “Haka” make us play or fight better. No. Will it force our spectators to take notice? I can almost guarantee it.

Our visitors will see very few Airman in the trenches. They’ll drive by and see people walking about. Their uniforms and personal grooming will speak for the wing as well. Good or bad…uniform wear is also a voice. The way we’re represented will speak for our entire service…especially if the viewing party is a coalition leader or US Government official.

Finally, to clear-up the misconception about calling people out. Here’s how that will go down. It’s not going to be me doing the majority of the call-outs. It will primarily be the Junior Airmen calling us senior folks out. SFS folks are doing it now. Honor Guard members are doing that now. Sure, the CC and I have asked for gathered groups to recite in unison. Those who could…did. So, will I ever make a public spectacle of someone over this? Absolutely not. Will I ever humiliate someone over this? Never. Do I still expect folks to know it. Absolutely yes. Ask around…there haven’t been any Airmen singled out to recite. There have been groups though. And every sortie went perfectly.

BOTTOM LINE: I guarantee that some will continue to poke holes and cast dispersions into this exercise in uniformity, leadership, and followership. Have at it. Some will argue that the words to the Creed are all just words. I guess that’s where the basic problem begins and ends.

ROCK BOTTOM LINE: I’m more interested in the mission than ANYTHING else. I am more interested in our Airman than in our stuff. I am more interested in Professional Development than in making sure nobody gets their feelings hurt. I expect good order and discipline. And, if you remembered this from previous emails…I asked all of US to make the AC personal to you…especially since those stanzas begin with I.

V/R"

BigBaze
09-06-2011, 05:28 AM
Well, if he isn't reading it, at least someone here is. Here's the latest and greatest email--I did take out two words that are sort of mission related, but that doesn't affect the message at all.

Oh, and it looks like the driving factor for all of this is... Embarassment.



"BLUF: Answers to Airman’s Creed and Air Force Song requirements.

Never thought I’d be compelled to answer the “Why’s” on this AGAIN, but after the Wing Chaplain asked for a sit-down with me this morning he passed on a perspective I hadn’t thought about.

The Chaplain was worried about all the negative talk, blogs, and emails floating around cyberspace about my 5MT’s that he wanted to make sure I was aware of it. I told him that I was aware of everything since day 1, since I somewhat expected it. This wasn’t the first time I had used this particular 5MT. Then he asked me for more in-depth reasons behind the 5MTs I issue to the Enlisted, so I provided a few STRATEGIC reasons in short order. Basically, because he asked. After that short discussion, he fervently asked that I share those with you as well. I said that I would do so eventually…but he asked me again “with conviction” that I do it sooner as opposed to later. So I will.

Here goes:
In my first 5MT email I talked about changing the way we execute the Airman’s Creed and AF Song in public forums. Forums that are hosted by the Wing CC…my Boss. In other 5MT’s I talked about wear of the uniform issues and representing your units while you’re out and about on this base. You were asked to be Wingmen, Leaders, and Warriors in those regards as well.

Now why would those be important? Two very basic reasons. Uniformity and discipline.
Great in theory, but only worthwhile if we have an execution piece. That execution piece is right in front of us…and will continue to grow.

Over the course of the next few months all eyes will be on this wing. Many high-level officials will be coming here to put eyes on our efforts. Senators, Congressmen, Service Secretaries, Senior COCOM leaders, and maybe even higher. Many of those folks will request an Airman’s call where we pack a couple hundred people into our Theater for a forum.
As is the tradition, those forums will afford us TWO times where WE can execute something as a WING. Those times are when we recite the AC and sing the AFS. The very first time we did this as a wing was in a word…embarrassing. We can’t have that happen.

Since 90% of those voices will be ENLISTED, 90% of the opportunity to show uniformity in those LIMITED engagements will be OURS. Similarly, 90% of the opportunity to look disjointed will be ours as well. Say what you may, but this is where we can collectively show pride for those Marauders not in attendance . Granted, there’s no technical sense or mission sense in reciting the Creed or Singing the Song. But for those who can and will, you can make a statement about being an American Airman and a Marauder. I’m confident that we’ll display being of one function, form, and voice during those Airman’s calls on the horizon. One of those is tomorrow afternoon and the CC will be leading us all in the Airman’s Creed and the AF Song. We won’t let him down.

Our elected officials won’t get to see us perform at the tactical level and won’t watch our Aircrews as they maintain a 98% mission effectiveness rate. They won’t see the countless hours on post or our “hot & dirty” maintainers turning wrenches on the flight line. They’ll mostly get a mission brief and driving tour before an Airman’s call. What I hope they DO see in the Airman’s calls is the equivalent of the Pacific Islands’ “Haka”…a coordinated activity executed in unison to show that all of us are inextricable joined in the fight. Will this “Haka” make us play or fight better. No. Will it force our spectators to take notice? I can almost guarantee it.

Our visitors will see very few Airman in the trenches. They’ll drive by and see people walking about. Their uniforms and personal grooming will speak for the wing as well. Good or bad…uniform wear is also a voice. The way we’re represented will speak for our entire service…especially if the viewing party is a coalition leader or US Government official.

Finally, to clear-up the misconception about calling people out. Here’s how that will go down. It’s not going to be me doing the majority of the call-outs. It will primarily be the Junior Airmen calling us senior folks out. SFS folks are doing it now. Honor Guard members are doing that now. Sure, the CC and I have asked for gathered groups to recite in unison. Those who could…did. So, will I ever make a public spectacle of someone over this? Absolutely not. Will I ever humiliate someone over this? Never. Do I still expect folks to know it. Absolutely yes. Ask around…there haven’t been any Airmen singled out to recite. There have been groups though. And every sortie went perfectly.

BOTTOM LINE: I guarantee that some will continue to poke holes and cast dispersions into this exercise in uniformity, leadership, and followership. Have at it. Some will argue that the words to the Creed are all just words. I guess that’s where the basic problem begins and ends.

ROCK BOTTOM LINE: I’m more interested in the mission than ANYTHING else. I am more interested in our Airman than in our stuff. I am more interested in Professional Development than in making sure nobody gets their feelings hurt. I expect good order and discipline. And, if you remembered this from previous emails…I asked all of US to make the AC personal to you…especially since those stanzas begin with I.

V/R"

And there you have it, our dear Command Chief wants to look good for the higher ups coming through..what a waste of space this self absorbed blowhard is..

Tooltime
09-06-2011, 06:00 AM
And there you have it, our dear Command Chief wants to look good for the higher ups coming through..what a waste of space this self absorbed blowhard is..

You only needed to highlight the first 9 words of the paragraph - because that says it all..."Our elected officials won’t get to see us perform" If you want a "performance" - just have Tops in Blue put on a show while the DV's are in town.

And how come he puts a "BLUF" at the top of his explanation letter, and then puts a "Bottom Line" and "Rock Bottom Line" in the conclusion? Is there a new Acronym being born? RBLUF

Oh, and to those who keep referring to this distinguished CMSgt as an "Ass Clown" - you are way off-base, and insulting the masses of true "Ass Clowns" throughout the AF. This is something far worse. I don't believe the correct label has been identified yet to describe what this is...

wxjumper
09-06-2011, 06:04 AM
Since 90% of those voices will be ENLISTED, 90% of the opportunity to show uniformity in those LIMITED engagements will be OURS. Similarly, 90% of the opportunity to look disjointed will be ours as well. Say what you may, but this is where we can collectively show pride for those Marauders not in attendance . Granted, there’s no technical sense or mission sense in reciting the Creed or Singing the Song. But for those who can and will, you can make a statement about being an American Airman and a Marauder. I’m confident that we’ll display being of one function, form, and voice during those Airman’s calls on the horizon. One of those is tomorrow afternoon and the CC will be leading us all in the Airman’s Creed and the AF Song. We won’t let him down.


Does this ass clown (sorry, can't think of a better description tooltime) even know what Marauder means?


ma•raud 
verb (used without object)
1. to roam or go around in quest of plunder; make a raid for booty: Freebooters were marauding all across the territory.
verb (used with object)
2. to raid for plunder (often used passively): At the war's end the country had been marauded by returning bands of soldiers.


What a great message to send up to all those Senators and COCOM Commanders! I am sure they would love to hear about your Airman raping and pillaging the locals.

Tooltime
09-06-2011, 06:16 AM
Since 90% of those voices will be ENLISTED, 90% of the opportunity to show uniformity in those LIMITED engagements will be OURS. Similarly, 90% of the opportunity to look disjointed will be ours as well. Say what you may, but this is where we can collectively show pride for those Marauders not in attendance . Granted, there’s no technical sense or mission sense in reciting the Creed or Singing the Song. But for those who can and will, you can make a statement about being an American Airman and a Marauder. I’m confident that we’ll display being of one function, form, and voice during those Airman’s calls on the horizon. One of those is tomorrow afternoon and the CC will be leading us all in the Airman’s Creed and the AF Song. We won’t let him down.



Shouldn't he have ended this paragraph with "We will not falter, and WE WILL NOT FAIL!"

Just sayin' - it's kind of like "Biff" on Back to the Future:

"Why don't you make like a Tree - and Get Outta Here"

Talk about a missed opportunity...

grimreaper
09-06-2011, 07:53 AM
And there you have it, our dear Command Chief wants to look good for the higher ups coming through..what a waste of space this self absorbed blowhard is..


If the only real view of the Air Force that the DV's and politicians are getting when they visit is of a big group of Airmen standing around, chanting like they're under some kind of mind control like in Orwell's 1984, that's nothing but two big scoops of FAIL right there.

Shrike
09-06-2011, 07:55 AM
OK, I'll ask, "SPACES??? VOIDS??? WTF-OVER??!!"

Here I've been trying to fill my spaces with voids, when all along I should have been filling my voids with spaces. Shrike...FAIL!

Shrike
09-06-2011, 07:56 AM
Are those sunglasses I see hanging around his neck? I thought that wasn't allowed?
There was a void around his neck. He meant to fill it with space, but mistakenly filled it with sunglasses instead.

Shrike
09-06-2011, 08:02 AM
Well, if he isn't reading it, at least someone here is. Here's the latest and greatest email--I did take out two words that are sort of mission related, but that doesn't affect the message at all.

Oh, and it looks like the driving factor for all of this is... Embarassment.



"BLUF: Answers to Airman’s Creed and Air Force Song requirements.

Never thought I’d be compelled to answer the “Why’s” on this AGAIN, but after the Wing Chaplain asked for a sit-down with me this morning he passed on a perspective I hadn’t thought about.

The Chaplain was worried about all the negative talk, blogs, and emails floating around cyberspace about my 5MT’s that he wanted to make sure I was aware of it. I told him that I was aware of everything since day 1, since I somewhat expected it. This wasn’t the first time I had used this particular 5MT. Then he asked me for more in-depth reasons behind the 5MTs I issue to the Enlisted, so I provided a few STRATEGIC reasons in short order. Basically, because he asked. After that short discussion, he fervently asked that I share those with you as well. I said that I would do so eventually…but he asked me again “with conviction” that I do it sooner as opposed to later. So I will.

Here goes:
In my first 5MT email I talked about changing the way we execute the Airman’s Creed and AF Song in public forums. Forums that are hosted by the Wing CC…my Boss. In other 5MT’s I talked about wear of the uniform issues and representing your units while you’re out and about on this base. You were asked to be Wingmen, Leaders, and Warriors in those regards as well.

Now why would those be important? Two very basic reasons. Uniformity and discipline.
Great in theory, but only worthwhile if we have an execution piece. That execution piece is right in front of us…and will continue to grow.

Over the course of the next few months all eyes will be on this wing. Many high-level officials will be coming here to put eyes on our efforts. Senators, Congressmen, Service Secretaries, Senior COCOM leaders, and maybe even higher. Many of those folks will request an Airman’s call where we pack a couple hundred people into our Theater for a forum.
As is the tradition, those forums will afford us TWO times where WE can execute something as a WING. Those times are when we recite the AC and sing the AFS. The very first time we did this as a wing was in a word…embarrassing. We can’t have that happen.

Since 90% of those voices will be ENLISTED, 90% of the opportunity to show uniformity in those LIMITED engagements will be OURS. Similarly, 90% of the opportunity to look disjointed will be ours as well. Say what you may, but this is where we can collectively show pride for those Marauders not in attendance . Granted, there’s no technical sense or mission sense in reciting the Creed or Singing the Song. But for those who can and will, you can make a statement about being an American Airman and a Marauder. I’m confident that we’ll display being of one function, form, and voice during those Airman’s calls on the horizon. One of those is tomorrow afternoon and the CC will be leading us all in the Airman’s Creed and the AF Song. We won’t let him down.

Our elected officials won’t get to see us perform at the tactical level and won’t watch our Aircrews as they maintain a 98% mission effectiveness rate. They won’t see the countless hours on post or our “hot & dirty” maintainers turning wrenches on the flight line. They’ll mostly get a mission brief and driving tour before an Airman’s call. What I hope they DO see in the Airman’s calls is the equivalent of the Pacific Islands’ “Haka”…a coordinated activity executed in unison to show that all of us are inextricable joined in the fight. Will this “Haka” make us play or fight better. No. Will it force our spectators to take notice? I can almost guarantee it.

Our visitors will see very few Airman in the trenches. They’ll drive by and see people walking about. Their uniforms and personal grooming will speak for the wing as well. Good or bad…uniform wear is also a voice. The way we’re represented will speak for our entire service…especially if the viewing party is a coalition leader or US Government official.

Finally, to clear-up the misconception about calling people out. Here’s how that will go down. It’s not going to be me doing the majority of the call-outs. It will primarily be the Junior Airmen calling us senior folks out. SFS folks are doing it now. Honor Guard members are doing that now. Sure, the CC and I have asked for gathered groups to recite in unison. Those who could…did. So, will I ever make a public spectacle of someone over this? Absolutely not. Will I ever humiliate someone over this? Never. Do I still expect folks to know it. Absolutely yes. Ask around…there haven’t been any Airmen singled out to recite. There have been groups though. And every sortie went perfectly.

BOTTOM LINE: I guarantee that some will continue to poke holes and cast dispersions into this exercise in uniformity, leadership, and followership. Have at it. Some will argue that the words to the Creed are all just words. I guess that’s where the basic problem begins and ends.

ROCK BOTTOM LINE: I’m more interested in the mission than ANYTHING else. I am more interested in our Airman than in our stuff. I am more interested in Professional Development than in making sure nobody gets their feelings hurt. I expect good order and discipline. And, if you remembered this from previous emails…I asked all of US to make the AC personal to you…especially since those stanzas begin with I.

V/R"
Who puts a BLUF, Bottom Line, and a "ROCK" Bottom Line in an e-mail?

grimreaper
09-06-2011, 08:07 AM
There was a void around his neck. He meant to fill it with space, but mistakenly filled it with sunglasses instead.

I hate when that happens.

grimreaper
09-06-2011, 08:09 AM
Who puts a BLUF, Bottom Line, and a "ROCK" Bottom Line in an e-mail?

LOL, someone who can't remember what they typed 5 minutes ago. That should probably tell ya that you darn email is too friggin' long.

imported_AFKILO7
09-06-2011, 11:52 AM
I'm not cool enough to know....WTF is a BLUF? Regardless this man is a toolbag, one that is missing a wrench or two.

sweep_the_leg
09-06-2011, 12:00 PM
I'm not cool enough to know....WTF is a BLUF? Regardless this man is a toolbag, one that is missing a wrench or two.

Bottom Line Up Front, opposed to a Bottom Line on the Bottom (BLOB)

imported_AFKILO7
09-06-2011, 12:11 PM
Bottom Line Up Front, opposed to a Bottom Line on the Bottom (BLOB)

Wow...you forgot the RBL underneathe the BL..

Forsaken Wombat
09-06-2011, 12:19 PM
Anyone think that maybe...just maybe...this is the "thing" that wakes certain people up, makes them realize just how silly things have gotten in the USAF? I always hear the "pendulum" terminology in the Air Force, about how things swing from one extreme to another over the course of years; perhaps this is the point where the pendulum has traveled its maximum swing in the direction of "Stupid & Silly" and will now swing back to "Sane & Serious"?

Or is that wishful thinking?

F16TSgt
09-06-2011, 12:21 PM
Our Air Force is in serious trouble if this the sort of drivel going on downrange. We should have one mission and one mindset. Put jets in the air and bombs on target. Any "leadership" that can't focus solely on that and had to enforce such BS as reciting a hokey rip off from the Army need to be have their retirement paperwork filled out for them.
Go back and read every post attached to this thread, we are the ones that need to stick it out and suffer through this until these kinds of idiots are gone and then we can re-employ common sense, get back to our mission and lift our Air Force out of this nosedive.

TJMAC77SP
09-06-2011, 12:27 PM
I'm not cool enough to know....WTF is a BLUF? Regardless this man is a toolbag, one that is missing a wrench or two.

Don't feel bad I don't know what 5MT is.

imported_AFKILO7
09-06-2011, 12:33 PM
Yeah me neither. I'm guessing it has something to do with planes...I am only partly responsible for guarding them. I like to stay away from the flightline as much as possible. I'm certain the maintainers don't want me roaming around with my asshole dog checking RAB's.

John Jameson
09-06-2011, 12:35 PM
Anyone think that maybe...just maybe...this is the "thing" that wakes certain people up, makes them realize just how silly things have gotten in the USAF? I always hear the "pendulum" terminology in the Air Force, about how things swing from one extreme to another over the course of years; perhaps this is the point where the pendulum has traveled its maximum swing in the direction of "Stupid & Silly" and will now swing back to "Sane & Serious"?

Or is that wishful thinking?

Wishful thinking. Don't you realize how many more Army rules/policies are out there that we have yet to adopt? :madgrin

Forsaken Wombat
09-06-2011, 12:42 PM
Well, if he isn't reading it, at least someone here is. Here's the latest and greatest email--I did take out two words that are sort of mission related, but that doesn't affect the message at all.

Oh, and it looks like the driving factor for all of this is... Embarassment.



"BLUF: Answers to Airman’s Creed and Air Force Song requirements.

Never thought I’d be compelled to answer the “Why’s” on this AGAIN, but after the Wing Chaplain asked for a sit-down with me this morning he passed on a perspective I hadn’t thought about.

The Chaplain was worried about all the negative talk, blogs, and emails floating around cyberspace about my 5MT’s that he wanted to make sure I was aware of it. I told him that I was aware of everything since day 1, since I somewhat expected it. This wasn’t the first time I had used this particular 5MT. Then he asked me for more in-depth reasons behind the 5MTs I issue to the Enlisted, so I provided a few STRATEGIC reasons in short order. Basically, because he asked. After that short discussion, he fervently asked that I share those with you as well. I said that I would do so eventually…but he asked me again “with conviction” that I do it sooner as opposed to later. So I will.



All I can imagine is the Chaplain going, "Cool story, Bro...tell it again."

John Jameson
09-06-2011, 12:57 PM
Do you suppose the wing CC will have the good sense to move this guy along to greener pastures? I'd guess by now, he's even more ineffective than he was prior to the 5MT diatribe.

Shrike
09-06-2011, 01:01 PM
Do you suppose the wing CC will have the good sense to move this guy along to greener pastures? I'd guess by now, he's even more ineffective than he was prior to the 5MT diatribe.
I think I read somewhere in a book on leadership that "To be an effective leader, one must avoid making oneself into a ginormous f#$king laughingstock." That may not be the proper quote...it's been a while.

Igloowhite
09-06-2011, 01:09 PM
I wish we had this forum available when TQM was initiated during the 90s!

Forsaken Wombat
09-06-2011, 01:20 PM
I wish we had this forum available when TQM was initiated during the 90s!

It was around...it was just parked over in GeoCities.

www.geocities.com/Area51/AFForums/235682.html

Igloowhite
09-06-2011, 01:24 PM
I did not realize that, thanks!

BadHairCut
09-06-2011, 01:26 PM
"As is the tradition, those forums will afford us TWO times where WE can execute something as a WING. Those times are when we recite the AC and sing the AFS. The very first time we did this as a wing was in a word…embarrassing. We can’t have that happen.

I’m confident that we’ll display being of one function, form, and voice during those Airman’s calls on the horizon. One of those is tomorrow afternoon and the CC will be leading us all in the Airman’s Creed and the AF Song. We won’t let him down.

"

Can someone at the location let us know how the chant at the Airman's Call went?

Would be "Interesting" if it was subpar...

Your_Name_Here
09-06-2011, 01:44 PM
I wish we had this forum available when TQM was initiated during the 90s!


It was around...it was just parked over in GeoCities.

[*broken link snipped*]

Funny you guys should mention, albeit indirectly, use of an Internet forum as a weapon. In this, I have seen our future, and I believe the battle against AF Corporate stupidity has taken an historic turn. To wit: we have just witnessed use of this forum in not only embarrassing a perpetrator of Tooltastic behavior, but also in scoring a major clarification/backpedaling, if not a complete reversal of said tooltastic behavior.

Now if only this would work against certain 4-Stars/other GO's, particularly if his name happened to end in "orth." ;)

insidiousbookworm
09-06-2011, 01:50 PM
Can someone at the location let us know how the chant at the Airman's Call went?

Would be "Interesting" if it was subpar...

It actually went OK. The Chief was pretty pumped up about the whole chanting thing. But it sure sounded like most everyone knew it.

BRUWIN
09-06-2011, 01:57 PM
And there you have it, our dear Command Chief wants to look good for the higher ups coming through..what a waste of space this self absorbed blowhard is..

If it's embarassment that's the worry I would tackle it differently. I would simply take the creed out of the equation. Nobody is sold on the thing and it doesn't mean a lot to people. Some p[epople are starting to feel like Hitler's Youth the way it's being force fed and I see their point.

Although I like the tradition, I would take out the AF song as well...I don't think it needs to be part of an Airmen's call in the theater. That's more for a ceremony or special event type event.

To the Chief in question...I say keep it simple and you'll avoid any embarassment. You'd be better off insisting the DV's go out to the flightline and watch and talk to your people at work. I went through this last time I was in Afghanistan with the Army. A DV came by and the Sergeant Major expected some elaborate PPT presentation for me to give. I told the SGM "Nope...no ppt...we're going out to meet the troops." The SGM was appalled, he couldn't believe I was gonna walk these guys around for a meet and greet with troops. I told him that the AF does things a little different in that we expect our young troops to brief what they do rather than us try to pretend we know everything they do. The SGM in question never really got over it.

First Sergeant
09-06-2011, 02:39 PM
I heard about these posts a few days ago and I've watched the negativity grow. It seems that everyone is jumping on the bandwagon but doesn't really understand what's going on here. It’s easy to look at an email, pick it apart and add fuel to the fire. Here’s my two cents….for those of you that are here with me (yep, I eat in the same chow hall and go to the gym with you too), go talk to the Chief and get his perspective in his own words. I bet you’ll be surprised at what he has to say. He has an open door policy and is serious about it. If you don’t agree with him, that’s cool too. I guarantee he’ll listen to you with an open mind.
Is his primary focus the Airman’s Creed and the Air Force song? No, it’s not. Is it untucked t-shirts in the gym? Nope. His focus is the people and the mission. Yep, I said PEOPLE first. Happy, healthy and mission ready peeps. How do I know? I make suggestions to him all the time…I win some, I lose some but for the majority of what I ask for, I get. It’s that simple with the Chief. What does he ask in return? He asks that we have pride in our Air Force. That’s all. Are the emails long? Yep, they sure are. So what? Does he get stuff wrong, yes he does! Is he afraid to hear about it? No, he’s not.
Here’s the issue I have with all of this: If you have a problem with his emails (and you are here) you have every chance to talk about it to your chain of command about them. Go talk to your supervisor, first sergeant….or come talk to me if you want to talk about it. Posting his emails, pictures and anything else that you’ve done is just plain wrong. You may not agree with everything he’s said… and that’s fine… but this isn’t the way to change anything.
For the rest of you that have questions, please feel free to email me. I’ll answer your questions candidly and honestly.

KuwaitSNCO
09-06-2011, 02:55 PM
To all you bashers of the CCM, I understand that you have a right as an American to post whatever you want about a guy you know absolutely nothing about and this true blooded American is just like all of us in that we have or are serving our country so that you have this freedom. This CCM was born and raised in Hawaii and could have chosen many different paths in his life and he chose to serve his country very honorably for 27 years so far and I just can't fathom how all of you are tearing apart one of your own like you know him and even understand his message. To see other Chiefs on here ripping him is even more despicable and all of you are no better than the media that puts their own spin on a person or event without even knowing the person or being at the event. Remember when our fathers/mothers and grandparents were in the war in Vietnam and the media put their spin on the war and ripped them apart and they came home to people spitting on them without even knowing them. Well, you all are spitting on this CCM without even knowing him and as fellow Airman it is incredibly tough to understand.

Unless one of you steps up to the plate like the big talking people that you are on this forum and actually takes the time to talk to this CCM to actually find out what his message actually means then consider yourself very small. Hopefully his upstanding pride in his country will not be destroyed by all this senseless banter, but what you might end up doing is destroying the pride that his wife and children have developed for their husband and father. His wife has also served this country very proudly and his children have endured the PCSs and the deployments just like yours have so picture someone going online and posting crap about you and destroying their pride and faith in our country.

Some of you think you are better Americans than all the rest of those that only deploy to Kuwait and Qatar because you are from the many special career fields like TACP, gunners, loadmasters, the 20 plus deployment people to Iraq and Afghanistan, or whatever career field that you may be, but it only true in your own mind. I do have an extreme amount of respect for those special career fields and it is well deserved, but we are still equal Americans. I have deployed to all those places talked about and been in bare bone bases, but we all chose or got selected for our career fields. Not all career fields are deployable to the hot zones and those that are eligible for them get hit up to go where the USAF needs them and in the CCMs case it was Kuwait this time. You really think he went to the Chief’s Group and said deploy me to Kuwait only or I will retire? No, he didn’t, he was selected by the Wing Commander amongst several other candidates.

I have talked to this CCM in person and if you did the same you would know how wrong you are in the interpretation of his messages. He is not going to call anyone out over the AF Creed or the Air Force song and the very highly effective mission rates of this base will not suffer one iota because someone is learning the creed or the song. He knows what the mission of the base is he makes sure everyone on this base knows what the mission is and how it contributes to the big pictures. He simply wants people to take the AF Creed and make each line mean something to them personally. For example, what does the line “I will never leave an Airman behind” mean to you guys? To a TACP or someone in a rescue squadron that means something totally different then it does to PME instructor and neither meaning is wrong. This is his message to the people and the extremely high mission effectiveness rates on this base will continue to happen because of not only our “hot and dirty” or OG folks, but also because of the tenant units, the Mission Support Group, Medical Group, and the Wing Staff personnel.

Have fun ripping my LONG post apart, knocking on my use of quotation marks, and making fun of my grammar errors, but please think about your families and your parents and how they want to remember your service of your country before you rip someone else’s family vision apart without even knowing the person or what his actual ideologies are about.

Pullinteeth
09-06-2011, 03:01 PM
Welcome to 5MT accountability one and all. Today marks the day that you are
required to know the Airman's Creed and Air Force Song as outlined in my
first 5MT to the Enlisted Corps. At no time did I alleviate ANYONE from this
requirement, so the demographic is clear. If you are an "E-something", this
applies to you. To some it applies even more, especially if you are a
supervisor. If in a supervisory role, you are also accountable TO and FOR
your people.

- Who: Every Enlisted member assigned to the XXXAEW.

DISCUSSION: Everyone presented with the 5MT requirements had options in
CHOOSING their personal way ahead. Their choices will place them into a
category of compliance as listed below. Almost everyone should be able to
recognize which demographic they primarily align with. Here are the 6
categories:

DELIVERABLES: The Commander and I have already been asking Enlisted Airmen
to recite the Airman's Creed in public. Yes folks, the Wing CC is also
on-board in this exercise. So my hope is that we encounter Airmen in
categories 1-5 when we're out and about. So far.it's been good. Two
excursions, 11 Airmen.11 successful deliveries.



Ok, riddle me this Batman... If it is the resposibility of a supervisor to ensure that those they supervise are able to recite the creed and AF song, AND the CC is "onboard" with this "exercise," why then are officers exempt? Are they not Airmen? Are they not supervisors? Are they not smart enough to memorize them? Is this "exercise" not important enough to bother them with? I understand the CCM has no authority over them but if the CC is truly onboard with this "exercise" why not extend the invitation to them? OR is this simply a case where the CC nodds their head when the CCM talks about torturing Enlisted members just to humor them? Seriously? If this is THAT important and the CC agrees that it is, then make it mandatory across the board. I am sure most officers already know both so it shouldn't be that big of a deal. Implementing it for Enlisted only makes it look like it ISN'T that important and is only being done as a way to mess with the Enlisted corps..

I am not saying the policy is right or wrong. I am saying the implementation of this policy is seriously flawed and could use some additional vectoring to ensure the message is clear.

Shrike
09-06-2011, 03:02 PM
I was wondering when his defenders would show up. Here's the Underside of the Rock Bottom Line to the Side of the Opening Sentence: He came off like one of the biggest tools I have ever encountered in 23+ years in the USAF. "5MT"'s addressing jacking up folks about the Airman's Creed while deployed? Toolish. Just...ultimate tool-type behavior. That's the Bottom Line at the End of The Sentence.

Shrike
09-06-2011, 03:06 PM
The Airman's Creed was stolen from the Army and was one of the last-gasp initiatives of a CSAF who had his ass fired for incompetence. That some people take this failed BS seriously considering it's source is sadly amusing.

It would be like CarrotTop singing a sad hymn memorializing 9/11 (that he'd plagiarized from someone else). Sure, it may have a little bit of meaning to someone, but really...it's plagiarized and it's f%^king CarrotTop!

imported_StandardsAMust
09-06-2011, 03:06 PM
I don't understand what all the rant is anyway...if you do not know the Airman's Creed or the Air Force Song and you wear the USAF uniform...don't call yourself a leader. PERIOD.

Shrike
09-06-2011, 03:10 PM
I don't understand what all the rant is anyway...if you do not know the Airman's Creed or the Air Force Song and you wear the USAF uniform...don't call yourself a leader. PERIOD.
Blow me. Some of us were around before the Creed and realize what a friggin' joke it is. Some of us remember ACTUAL, meaningful Creed's that were eliminated in order to make way for this piece of turd.

So, again, and especially considering the idiocy you post on here about standards (but only when it applies to PT) - blow me.

Signed,
An Actual Leader, not a CHEERleader.

SENDBILLMONEY
09-06-2011, 03:11 PM
Posting his emails, pictures and anything else that you’ve done is just plain wrong.

With regard to emails, what's wrong about it? The emails are work product generated in the course of his duties with the federal government. He wrote them for dissemination. He's a senior enlisted leader in a high-visibility position. When you stand out in front of the troops and court scrutiny, guess what? They're going to scrutinize you. One would expect a CMSgt to be proud of the way he's doing business and to embrace that scrutiny. If his actions don't need defending, why are you here?

The only photo I've seen came from what was apparently an official source. If that's a problem, the solution was not to pose for it.

Shrike
09-06-2011, 03:13 PM
I heard about these posts a few days ago and I've watched the negativity grow. It seems that everyone is jumping on the bandwagon but doesn't really understand what's going on here. It’s easy to look at an email, pick it apart and add fuel to the fire. Here’s my two cents….for those of you that are here with me (yep, I eat in the same chow hall and go to the gym with you too), go talk to the Chief and get his perspective in his own words. I bet you’ll be surprised at what he has to say. He has an open door policy and is serious about it. If you don’t agree with him, that’s cool too. I guarantee he’ll listen to you with an open mind.
Is his primary focus the Airman’s Creed and the Air Force song? No, it’s not. Is it untucked t-shirts in the gym? Nope. His focus is the people and the mission. Yep, I said PEOPLE first. Happy, healthy and mission ready peeps. How do I know? I make suggestions to him all the time…I win some, I lose some but for the majority of what I ask for, I get. It’s that simple with the Chief. What does he ask in return? He asks that we have pride in our Air Force. That’s all. Are the emails long? Yep, they sure are. So what? Does he get stuff wrong, yes he does! Is he afraid to hear about it? No, he’s not.
Here’s the issue I have with all of this: If you have a problem with his emails (and you are here) you have every chance to talk about it to your chain of command about them. Go talk to your supervisor, first sergeant….or come talk to me if you want to talk about it. Posting his emails, pictures and anything else that you’ve done is just plain wrong. You may not agree with everything he’s said… and that’s fine… but this isn’t the way to change anything.
For the rest of you that have questions, please feel free to email me. I’ll answer your questions candidly and honestly.
Really? Seemed pretty effective considering the speed that the "chaplain" convinced him to backpedal and eat some crow.

imported_StandardsAMust
09-06-2011, 03:16 PM
Blow me. Some of us were around before the Creed and realize what a friggin' joke it is. Some of us remember ACTUAL, meaningful Creed's that were eliminated in order to make way for this piece of turd.

So, again, and especially considering the idiocy you post on here about standards (but only when it applies to PT) - blow me.

Signed,
An Actual Leader, not a CHEERleader.

Doesn't matter...the amount of time most of you spent ranting about these two simple items says alot about the people in our ranks. Regardless if you disagree with the creed or not...like I said...if you wear this uniform and take those positions, then you are not a leader. PERIOD.

Shrike
09-06-2011, 03:19 PM
Doesn't matter...the amount of time most of you spent ranting about these two simple items says alot about the people in our ranks. Regardless if you disagree with the creed or not...like I said...if you wear this uniform and take those positions, then you are not a leader. PERIOD.
And if anyone except for PTGOD gave a shit what you thought, your blatherings might be meaningful.

imported_StandardsAMust
09-06-2011, 03:22 PM
And if anyone except for PTGOD gave a shit what you thought, your blatherings might be meaningful.

Sorry if I hurt your feelings...but the truth does hurt sometimes....

Pullinteeth
09-06-2011, 03:22 PM
I don't understand what all the rant is anyway...if you do not know the Airman's Creed or the Air Force Song and you wear the USAF uniform...don't call yourself a leader. PERIOD.

Then why are officers exempt from this requirement?

imported_StandardsAMust
09-06-2011, 03:27 PM
Then why are officers exempt from this requirement?

Who said they were exempt?

Shrike
09-06-2011, 03:28 PM
Sorry if I hurt your feelings...but the truth does hurt sometimes....
The only way my feelings are hurt is by knowing that the USAF has people coming up that believe the sort of idiocy you do. The USAF is growing ever more cluster f%^ked by the day, and you want to know why? Go look in the mirror.

Now go fill your void with space.

imported_StandardsAMust
09-06-2011, 03:31 PM
The only way my feelings are hurt is by knowing that the USAF has people coming up that believe the sort of idiocy you do. The USAF is growing ever more cluster f%^ked by the day, and you want to know why? Go look in the mirror.

Now go fill your void with space.
I would say the exact opposite...

Pullinteeth
09-06-2011, 03:36 PM
Who said they were exempt?

I assume the original email was too long for you to read the whole thing (or even the first paragraph) so here are the excerpts you requested;

ASAB Enlisted Corps,

Welcome to 5MT accountability one and all. Today marks the day that you are
required to know the Airman's Creed and Air Force Song as outlined in my
first 5MT to the Enlisted Corps. At no time did I alleviate ANYONE from this
requirement, so the demographic is clear. If you are an "E-something", this
applies to you. To some it applies even more, especially if you are a
supervisor. If in a supervisory role, you are also accountable TO and FOR
your people.

- Who: Every Enlisted member assigned to the XXXAEW.

- WHY: To forge LEADERSHIP and FOLLOWERSHIP capability and to drive
Enlisted uniformity during ### AEW ceremonies.

DELIVERABLES: The Commander and I have already been asking Enlisted Airmen
to recite the Airman's Creed in public. Yes folks, the Wing CC is also
on-board in this exercise. So my hope is that we encounter Airmen in
categories 1-5 when we're out and about. So far.it's been good. Two
excursions, 11 Airmen.11 successful deliveries.

BOTTOM LINE: If you are an Enlisted Airman who fell into categories 1-5 -
No need to read on any further unless you really want to......

V/R

Chief Xxxxxxxx

CMSgt X. Xxxxx Xxxxxxxx
Wing Command Chief Master Sergeant
### Air Expeditionary Wing (AFCENT)

DWWSWWD
09-06-2011, 03:37 PM
In my organization, before my getting here, the Chief would walk into a classroom and ask someone to stand up and recite the creed. They had until the end of week 1 to get ready for it. It could also be a hallway thing. My approach was to let everyone know that we'd be saying it at graduation as a group and however we got to that point was good with me. Here is the thing. We do good things here as I'm sure the Chief does downrange. To throw this creed up as a 5m target precludes anyone from seeing anything else. For me it was an issue of credibilty for my organization. To emphasize the creed, seemingly above all else, detracts from emphasis on much more important issues.

imported_StandardsAMust
09-06-2011, 03:44 PM
Then why are officers exempt from this requirement?

Maybe the officers already know it.....look, the email is from an Enlisted leader to the Enlisted Corps. Also, do you think a similiar one was sent from the Wing CC to his Group CC's? I would hedge a bet there was buy-in at those levels to begin with.

BRUWIN
09-06-2011, 03:48 PM
I have talked to this CCM in person and if you did the same you would know how wrong you are in the interpretation of his messages. He is not going to call anyone out over the AF Creed or the Air Force song and the very highly effective mission rates of this base will not suffer one iota because someone is learning the creed or the song.

I am sure he is a great American...but the original communication lends itself to the perception that he will "call out" individuals. Regardless...I guess it's his perogative to call them out. I just personally think it's unnecessary and a waste of time in the theater. If people are interpreting his message wrongly than maybe he needs to change the way his message comes across. It sounds like this whole thing has caused a big stink that he was never intending...that tells me that the message needs to be better communicated.

ART
09-06-2011, 03:49 PM
Unless one of you steps up to the plate like the big talking people that you are on this forum and actually takes the time to talk to this CCM to actually find out what his message actually means .



Not sure about everyone else, but I took it to mean exactly what he typed into the email.

Shrike
09-06-2011, 03:50 PM
I am sure he is a great American...but the original communication lends itself to the perception that he will "call out" individuals. Regardless...I guess it's his perogative to call them out. I just personally think it's unnecessary and a waste of time in the theater. If people are interpreting his message wrongly than maybe he needs to change the way his message comes across. It sounds like this whole thing has caused a big stink that he was never intending...that tells me that the message needs to be better communicated.
Perhaps the next 5MT can be on effective communication.

Luvnlife
09-06-2011, 03:53 PM
I can see where he was coming from. Though I found myself rolling my eyes at the initial email. I always hated how the AF never really had an identity/tradition like our sister services. It just doesnt work when its forced down our throats.

I've always wondered how those in SNCO or Lt Col + grades that are ate up handle retirement. I remember the day I went to get my retiree ID card and after signing in as a retiree saw 5 other people come in ABU's and get seen first. It didnt bother me at all, I knew that active duty are seen first and I know that after retirement the only people who care that you spent 20 + years in or that you have 5 MSM's are you and that's about it.

First Sergeant
09-06-2011, 03:54 PM
His actions don't need defending, he says that himself. Scrutinizing someone isn't an issue either. He expects that...so should we all as NCOs and SNCOs. Disrespect is a whole different story and as a SNCO, I will not and can not defend that type of behavior. Especially from other Airmen. Opinions are just that and everyone knows the old saying. The photo you saw, hasn't been released yet...not that I know of anyway...

BRUWIN
09-06-2011, 04:09 PM
Maybe the officers already know it

You must live in dreamland. Many officers hate the creed and blame E-9s for its implementation.

Venus
09-06-2011, 04:16 PM
Sorry if I hurt your feelings...but the truth does hurt sometimes....
OK what is this turning into, your not a real Chief unless your a CCM and not a leader unless you have a diamond on your sleeve? I am neither, I don't know the Airmens Creed but I can hum along to the Air Force Song. I consider myself a leader and a damn effective one to boot, my guys usually gave me a compliment when I showed up in the AOR by saying " My God its about effing time you got here, glad to see you and btw we don't have a MC jet for the next go, any ideas". So I see some circling of the wagons, that is to be commended for a fellow SNCO but would it be better to give this guy wise counsel like the Chaplin did. Quiet leadership always works best by just setting an example than writing a manifesto. As of now he has position authority but no earned authority and he is a hit in the officer centered forums in Base OPs.net. I can tell you he has no gravitas with the officer corp as of now and are salivating when the Chief goes to quiz one of the E's on their crew by stopping it and have them recite the BOLDFACE on their -1 checklist instead. Plus do you think he is giving his Wing CC a disservice now of having a ineffective Chief that his fellow officers no longer respect. Lets face it he stepped on his dick and the best thing for him is to stay off the internet and be a guy who gets things done quietly and without fanfare. It's to bad for the enlisted corp that too many Chiefs who actually get the mission done rather have a sister who works in a whore house than except a CCM position. Lets all try to remember this instead- Bombs,Cargo,Pax,Fuel on target and on time and kill the Taliban and their friends.

Igloowhite
09-06-2011, 04:16 PM
Borrowed from an officer's perspective:

The conceptual idea that one absolutely must get the uniform standard right all the time or you simply aren't qualified to fight the war is fundamentally flawed. The true professional puts everything on a hierarchy of importance, a hierarchy that changes depending on many variables. As operators we're very comfortable living like this, and we usually call it SA. Sometimes your gas state is the most important thing, sometimes it's the weather, sometimes it's the mission then the icing on your wings, and when the critical part of the mission is over you RTB the area because now the icing is most important. The hierarchy is always changing, and a good flyer stays aware of what's at the top and the handful of items under it. This idea of juggling a group of variables which all slide up and down the priority list used to confuse the shit out of me in pilot training, resulting in my average performance. But with a few thousand hours it's natural to all of us.

And I think this is why we all know his argument is bullshit, but an articulate response is hard because the concept is so simple. We think "of course my mission planning is more important than having my sleeves rolled down." Or "of course I put my sunglasses on my head, I'm doing shit with my hands."

And that's the issue with this guy, and this entire school of thought with non-operators that if you can't get the uniform right how can you fly an airplane? They think "how can you possibly do the important things when you can't get this thing right?" And we think "how can you possibly worry about the unimportant things when there are so many others that matter?" Of course our perspective is right and theirs is wrong. We prove that by flying successful missions everyday wearing baseball hats with a dip in our mouth; and if they understood priorities they wouldn't correct an officer about a minor uniform violation by yelling at him in public-- a customs and courtesies breach that manifests their inability to differentiate importance levels between issues.

The only possible fix to our plight (two incompatible schools of thought) is leadership. Leadership must set the standard and leadership must judge what is most important when. And of course, leadership is what we are mostly lacking. Approaching the end of my commitment, this is a pretty strong argument for me to stay and try to fix it.

KuwaitSNCO
09-06-2011, 04:22 PM
I am sure he is a great American...but the original communication lends itself to the perception that he will "call out" individuals. Regardless...I guess it's his perogative to call them out. I just personally think it's unnecessary and a waste of time in the theater. If people are interpreting his message wrongly than maybe he needs to change the way his message comes across. It sounds like this whole thing has caused a big stink that he was never intending...that tells me that the message needs to be better communicated.

BRUWIN,

Like I mentioned in my post, it is your interpretation of his message and a perception as you called it, but it is no different then the media putting whatever spin on a topic they want. Call him up on the phone, he will be glad to talk to you on an adult level or anyone else for that matter. Most people will tell you that emails don't capture interpretations all the time because you aren't seeing the nonverbals of the sender. If you were to see them when he talks you would have a better understanding I believe, but to say all the things that are being said without knowing the person is lame. I standby my in person interpretation that individuals will not be singled out and put on the spot and to this date nobody on here has been put on the spot as you all believe. As a matter of fact, some very proud Airmen challenge him all the time and they are enthused about it and do it along with him. I can't nail you for your misinterpretation because as I mentioned earlier it happens without the nonverbals in emails all the time, but to desecrate someone's earned position without knowing them and what they have done in their 27 plus years of service is disgraceful (not saying you did this, but many on here have).

v/r,

KuwaitSNCO

Shrike
09-06-2011, 04:23 PM
You must live in dreamland. Many officers hate the creed and blame E-9s for its implementation.
Exactly; you are one who has filled his void with space.

I asked the three officers I work with if they've memorized it. Two laughed, the other rolled his eyes.

BRUWIN
09-06-2011, 04:24 PM
Not sure about everyone else, but I took it to mean exactly what he typed into the email.

I did too. It's weird to understand a message that summed up basically states to learn the creed or else and then have individuals come on here saying we don't understand the guy.

So I will admit...I don't understand what the heck the original e-mail is intended to mean, to write something one way and then later say it means something differtent than maybe he's in the wrong position. I personally would have less of a problem with things if he just came out and said "Yeah...my message was a threat for you to learn the creed" than later glossing over it by saying he intended something else. McKinley was straight up about it when it first came out..."learn the creed damn it" was his approach. I admit I rolled my eyes and he never wavered.

Your_Name_Here
09-06-2011, 04:27 PM
I don't understand what all the rant is anyway...if you do not know the Airman's Creed or the Air Force Song and you wear the USAF uniform...don't call yourself a leader. PERIOD.


Doesn't matter...the amount of time most of you spent ranting about these two simple items says alot about the people in our ranks. Regardless if you disagree with the creed or not...like I said...if you wear this uniform and take those positions, then you are not a leader. PERIOD.


I would say the exact opposite...

Ohhhhh, I GET IT!!!!!!!!

You're trying to board the BRUWIN Express? For some reason though, you missed the mark by coming off as completely serious about what you posted. If this is not the case, no worries/nothing a little more practice can't fix. HOWEVER COMMA......

If you indeed ARE serious about what you posted, particularly where knowing the creed = "leadership," I'll take my place in line after Shrike.

Shrike
09-06-2011, 04:30 PM
BRUWIN,

Like I mentioned in my post, it is your interpretation of his message and a perception as you called it, but it is no different then the media putting whatever spin on a topic they want. Call him up on the phone, he will be glad to talk to you on an adult level or anyone else for that matter. Most people will tell you that emails don't capture interpretations all the time because you aren't seeing the nonverbals of the sender. If you were to see them when he talks you would have a better understanding I believe, but to say all the things that are being said without knowing the person is lame. I standby my in person interpretation that individuals will not be singled out and put on the spot and to this date nobody on here has been put on the spot as you all believe. As a matter of fact, some very proud Airmen challenge him all the time and they are enthused about it and do it along with him. I can't nail you for your misinterpretation because as I mentioned earlier it happens without the nonverbals in emails all the time, but to desecrate someone's earned position without knowing them and what they have done in their 27 plus years of service is disgraceful (not saying you did this, but many on here have).

v/r,

KuwaitSNCO

DELIVERABLES: The Commander and I have already been asking Enlisted Airmen
to recite the Airman's Creed in public. Yes folks, the Wing CC is also
on-board in this exercise. So my hope is that we encounter Airmen in
categories 1-5 when we're out and about. So far.it's been good. Two
excursions, 11 Airmen.11 successful deliveries.

WAY AHEAD: I will periodically ask folks if they know it. If they say yes, I
may recite or sing along WITH them. I will ask how they gained their
success. I will ask if they were vector checked buy their immediate
Supervisor. The answers THEY GIVE will tell me who Led and Followed
appropriately. If they say they don't know it.there will be tougher
questions.



Any misinterpretation of the above is the fault of the communicator, not the audience.

Pullinteeth
09-06-2011, 04:37 PM
Maybe the officers already know it.....look, the email is from an Enlisted leader to the Enlisted Corps. Also, do you think a similiar one was sent from the Wing CC to his Group CC's? I would hedge a bet there was buy-in at those levels to begin with.

So...what you are saying is that the Wing CC established an identical policy just for officers (or just his Group CC's)? IF that were the case, why have a separate one for Enlisted? Why not just make a poliy across the board? Wouldn't THAT make more sense?

root
09-06-2011, 04:43 PM
Well, if he isn't reading it, at least someone here is. Here's the latest and greatest email--I did take out two words that are sort of mission related, but that doesn't affect the message at all.

Oh, and it looks like the driving factor for all of this is... Embarassment.



"BLUF: Answers to Airman’s Creed and Air Force Song requirements.

Never thought I’d be compelled to answer the “Why’s” on this AGAIN, but after the Wing Chaplain asked for a sit-down with me this morning he passed on a perspective I hadn’t thought about.

The Chaplain was worried about all the negative talk, blogs, and emails floating around cyberspace about my 5MT’s that he wanted to make sure I was aware of it. I told him that I was aware of everything since day 1, since I somewhat expected it. This wasn’t the first time I had used this particular 5MT. Then he asked me for more in-depth reasons behind the 5MTs I issue to the Enlisted, so I provided a few STRATEGIC reasons in short order. Basically, because he asked. After that short discussion, he fervently asked that I share those with you as well. I said that I would do so eventually…but he asked me again “with conviction” that I do it sooner as opposed to later. So I will.

Here goes:
In my first 5MT email I talked about changing the way we execute the Airman’s Creed and AF Song in public forums. Forums that are hosted by the Wing CC…my Boss. In other 5MT’s I talked about wear of the uniform issues and representing your units while you’re out and about on this base. You were asked to be Wingmen, Leaders, and Warriors in those regards as well.

Now why would those be important? Two very basic reasons. Uniformity and discipline.
Great in theory, but only worthwhile if we have an execution piece. That execution piece is right in front of us…and will continue to grow.

Over the course of the next few months all eyes will be on this wing. Many high-level officials will be coming here to put eyes on our efforts. Senators, Congressmen, Service Secretaries, Senior COCOM leaders, and maybe even higher. Many of those folks will request an Airman’s call where we pack a couple hundred people into our Theater for a forum.
As is the tradition, those forums will afford us TWO times where WE can execute something as a WING. Those times are when we recite the AC and sing the AFS. The very first time we did this as a wing was in a word…embarrassing. We can’t have that happen.

Since 90% of those voices will be ENLISTED, 90% of the opportunity to show uniformity in those LIMITED engagements will be OURS. Similarly, 90% of the opportunity to look disjointed will be ours as well. Say what you may, but this is where we can collectively show pride for those Marauders not in attendance . Granted, there’s no technical sense or mission sense in reciting the Creed or Singing the Song. But for those who can and will, you can make a statement about being an American Airman and a Marauder. I’m confident that we’ll display being of one function, form, and voice during those Airman’s calls on the horizon. One of those is tomorrow afternoon and the CC will be leading us all in the Airman’s Creed and the AF Song. We won’t let him down.

Our elected officials won’t get to see us perform at the tactical level and won’t watch our Aircrews as they maintain a 98% mission effectiveness rate. They won’t see the countless hours on post or our “hot & dirty” maintainers turning wrenches on the flight line. They’ll mostly get a mission brief and driving tour before an Airman’s call. What I hope they DO see in the Airman’s calls is the equivalent of the Pacific Islands’ “Haka”…a coordinated activity executed in unison to show that all of us are inextricable joined in the fight. Will this “Haka” make us play or fight better. No. Will it force our spectators to take notice? I can almost guarantee it.

Our visitors will see very few Airman in the trenches. They’ll drive by and see people walking about. Their uniforms and personal grooming will speak for the wing as well. Good or bad…uniform wear is also a voice. The way we’re represented will speak for our entire service…especially if the viewing party is a coalition leader or US Government official.

Finally, to clear-up the misconception about calling people out. Here’s how that will go down. It’s not going to be me doing the majority of the call-outs. It will primarily be the Junior Airmen calling us senior folks out. SFS folks are doing it now. Honor Guard members are doing that now. Sure, the CC and I have asked for gathered groups to recite in unison. Those who could…did. So, will I ever make a public spectacle of someone over this? Absolutely not. Will I ever humiliate someone over this? Never. Do I still expect folks to know it. Absolutely yes. Ask around…there haven’t been any Airmen singled out to recite. There have been groups though. And every sortie went perfectly.

BOTTOM LINE: I guarantee that some will continue to poke holes and cast dispersions into this exercise in uniformity, leadership, and followership. Have at it. Some will argue that the words to the Creed are all just words. I guess that’s where the basic problem begins and ends.

ROCK BOTTOM LINE: I’m more interested in the mission than ANYTHING else. I am more interested in our Airman than in our stuff. I am more interested in Professional Development than in making sure nobody gets their feelings hurt. I expect good order and discipline. And, if you remembered this from previous emails…I asked all of US to make the AC personal to you…especially since those stanzas begin with I.

V/R"
I like where Chief is going with this, I just think his vector is a bit off. He wants to look good for VIPs. More directly he want the USAF to look good for VIPs. VIPs that may be voting on our retirement in the near future!
However, I think his vector is off because he is using his Airmen to push the 5-ton boulder uphill. Instead we should question the gay-ass creed that nobody can relate to. Get rid of it. A creed should be something we can all take pride in and get behind. A load of BS touting "do more with less" warrior stuff while multitasking sentry and avenger duties does not cut it.
Secondly, the Air Force Song is from 1939 (WTF) and we leave out the best verse (No. 3).
How about retiring these instead of forcing people to sound like crap and be embarrassed?

Pullinteeth
09-06-2011, 04:52 PM
Ok...someone please explain this to me;

Email #1;
- Where: In public forums during Wing events or when asked by senior leadership.
Email #2;
It will primarily be the Junior Airmen calling us senior folks out.

Email #1;
So my hope is that we encounter Airmen in categories 1-5 when we're out and about. So far.it's been good. Two excursions, 11 Airmen.11 successful deliveries.
Email #2;
Sure, the CC and I have asked for gathered groups to recite in unison. Those who could…did. So, will I ever make a public spectacle of someone over this? Absolutely not. Will I ever humiliate someone over this? Never. Do I still expect folks to know it. Absolutely yes. Ask around…there haven’t been any Airmen singled out to recite. There have been groups though. And every sortie went perfectly.

I may be wrong but it seems like they are saying two completely different things...

JD2780
09-06-2011, 05:03 PM
To standardsamust,
I am a leader. A leader that has proven himself on numerous occasions by concerning himself with the wellbeing of my Airmen as well as soldiers that I'm aligned with. I have not concerned myself with trivial meaningless junk such as the creed that the AF stole from another service. You cant just MAKE UP traditions. The creed doesnt do anything for the AF. I used to have pride in my service but it is slowly emptying. I'm sure you'll get on your horse and try to tell me how much of a failure I am as an NCO. To that I say ok. What I havent failed at is getting my Airmen home safely from every deployment and major exercise with the Army. I have developed my Airmen to replace me in situations where I may become unable to do my job. I feel I AM an effective leader. However I'll bow down to your ways. On second thought maybe I am just a pethetic excuse for an Airman for not knowing a creed. I do know one creed and its the Ranger creed. It means more to me than the Airmans Creed trust me.

MKopack
09-06-2011, 05:31 PM
I agree with Okie - if it really is the MISSION that matters to this Chief, where is that in his message? I also agree that no one is questioning his service. Twenty-seven years is a long time (a lot longer than I made it) and I'd be the first to shake his hand for that commitment. On the other hand, I do seriously question his priority and judgment.

I don't think it's the message of the creed, or the words of the Air Force hymn that are the issue here. It's the message that this Command Chief, and many others - he's not nearly unique - send on a day to day basis.

Our Air Force has been flying daily combat missions since 1990. People are tired, airplanes are tired, and our Air Force is tired, but we've still got a mission to accomplish and the easiest, or perhaps the 'least painful' way to accomplish it is with a bit of morale. How do you build morale? By building people up? Or Tearing them down?

Read the Chief's 5MT message again - what is the message it sends? Morale positive, or negative? All of you serving today have too much to be proud of for this Chief to be concentrating on something that, by any reasonable measure, doesn't matter.

Pullinteeth
09-06-2011, 05:38 PM
I wonder if they are required to clap while they sing the AF song? *shudder*

Z1911
09-06-2011, 06:08 PM
I just finished going through all 18 pages of comments/replies to this thread, and I can only say one thing: WOW!

In reading through all this, I've run the gamut of emotions: From uncontrollable laughter (to the point of tears), to disbelief, to frustrated anger. For an E-9 with 27 or so years to write something as cock-eyed and long winded as e-mail number one, and then come back with a contradictory e-mail like number 2, is just incredible. On top of that, to have some folks come back and say "Oh, you just don't know the chief, he's really an alright guy", is even more mind-blowing.

Someone with 27 years in the service should know how to write something that says exactly what he means it to say. My guess is that this guy is not an idiot, and that he did write e-mail #1 exactly the way he wanted it, and that before he hit the send button, he reviewed it to make sure it could not be mis-construed. Now he is reaping what he sowed by hitting the send button. He doesn't need 1st shirts or SNCOs to translate it for him. He clearly stuck his foot into his mouth and then proceeded to swallow up to his kneecap. It took counselling from an officer (chaplain) to enlighten him to the level of inanity he had reached, and to get him to send out an explanation (e-mail #2) of what he meant, which turned out to contradict a number of key points from e-mail #1.

BLUF: I don't know which is worse, an E-9 that thinks a mass recital of some creed, followed by a mass sing-a-long of a song is going to impress VIPs; or 1st shirts and SNCOs who feel he's in need of "rescuing" because he's busy eating his foot and leg.

EOMFD/GFYM8
09-06-2011, 06:08 PM
First Sergeant, KuwaitSNCO, and StandardsAMust: I recommend pre-treating with OxyClean(C) to get those blude Kool-Aid stains off the fronts of your shirts.

First off, it doesn't matter how much you've done in your career; if you're acting like a tool, people will notice. (a la the old saying, "You can build bridges your whole life, but if you suck one cock, you'll be remembered as a cocksucker, not a bridge builder.")

Second, I can't be proud of the air force (lower caps intentional) that constantly invents traditions, changes the traditions it does have, and focuses inordinate amounts of energy and resources toward anything other than core mission areas. The air force is like a first grader trying to hang out with his older brother.

ART
09-06-2011, 06:11 PM
http://www.flyingsquadron.com/forums/index.php?/topic/18471-whats-wrong-with-air-force/page__st__180

For your reading pleasure...the entertainment, and support for E's begins with post 183.

KuwaitSNCO
09-06-2011, 06:22 PM
Well,

Let me try to condense this entire thread for everyone, especially the new readers. The posters on here were all great leaders, saved many lives, always got the mission done, never had a failure, never lost a plane, always put the bomb on target, didn't want to make Chief because they only wanted to do the grimy and hard work and didn't want to have to play politics or suck up, a lot of them feel if one doesn't fly planes or put them in the air then one is simply an aide to the real mission workers, many battle scars from our strong powerful warriors posting on here, multiple heroes, many worked with the Army so they are better then those that haven't worked with the Army, some ate snakes, some ate the enemies, some are really good at grammar and love to correct others at it and everyone on this topic thread knows that the AF Creed was stolen from the Army and it means didly squat to the real leaders and means a lot to non-leading wannabe leaders. If you know the Creed by heart you must have nothing else to do with your time and surely aren't mission focused at all so you should quickly forget it so you have room for mission focus in your clouded mind. If a Commander does not go on a forum and pledge his support for his CCM then this commander must surely think his CCM has lost sight and must relieve him of his job so he can retire. The Air Force is falling apart because of the bad CCM and other E-9s and it has nothing to do with anything else at all.

Not so fast my friends, the Air Force is not falling apart and we are still by far the best and most powerful Air Force in the world so quit acting like it is all going to hell because of one guy's post that you all put your own spin on. I used my heavy sarcasm font in the preceding paragraph and put my own spin on a lot of your posts, but I swear I know what you meant.

OtisRNeedleman
09-06-2011, 06:29 PM
From the Command E-9's second e-mail:

How about executing the warfighting mission as a Wing? Let the results speak for themselves.

I have been deployed a few times, and I have yet to see most "leadership" concern themselves with the mission. Most are managers who say the mission is their number one priority, but they never seem to ask what we need to make it happen quicker/better/faster/more efficiently. A leader would be moving obstacles so that their people's job would be easier. Instead, these folks find some piddly non-value-added thing such as the Creed to judge people's worthwhileness on and they think they're the greatest leader to ever walk the face of the earth.

A big plus one to BRUWIN & Shrike in that the original e-mail was pretty clear in his intent. To argue otherwise makes you sound like a sycophant.

Nobody's disparaging the E-9 in question or his service. We just noted his seemingly misplaced priorities and lamented how these powers could have been used for good instead of queep. How true...Chairman Mao loved seeing everyone wave their "Little Red Books" during the Cultural Revolution, even though things in much of China were in utter chaos. By the same token, I agree with you, based on personal experience, that the DVs/highrollers would get a quantum leap more from seeing people accomplishing their missions instead of watching people bleat a creed and sing a song. They LOVE to see "stuff", and do NOT forget what they saw.

BRUWIN
09-06-2011, 06:34 PM
The air force is like a first grader trying to hang out with his older brother.

Good analogy...made me laugh. And sometimes I actually feel that way when I'm around the Army. When did it all start going wrong? I keep trying to pin it on a timeframe. Sometimes I think it started with McPeak and then other days I think maybe it was after that. It's hard to pin down...maybe it's because we've been going down hill for so long that what sounded ludicrous a month or a year ago is nothing compared to what is going on at the moment, and then a month later that seems normal when somebody else comes up with another hair brained scheme. I give it two years and ya'll will be required to wear PT shorts with the waistband approximately 4-6 inches above the navel.

KuwaitSNCO
09-06-2011, 06:35 PM
How true...Chairman Mao loved seeing everyone wave their "Little Red Books" during the Cultural Revolution, even though things in much of China were in utter chaos. By the same token, I agree with you, based on personal experience, that the DVs/highrollers would get a quantum leap more from seeing people accomplishing their missions instead of watching people bleat a creed and sing a song. They LOVE to see "stuff", and do NOT forget what they saw.

What part of the "mission is excelling here" don't you understand? The leaders here do go out of their way to make the mission happen and it is at very impressive rates, you guys make it sound like the world is falling apart and it is because of an email sent out in Kuwait. Get off the bandwagon everyone else is on since it is on a deadend road.

OtisRNeedleman
09-06-2011, 06:43 PM
It actually went OK. The Chief was pretty pumped up about the whole chanting thing. But it sure sounded like most everyone knew it. Did anyone wave the "Little Brown Book"? :)

Comm Chief
09-06-2011, 06:45 PM
Well,

Let me try to condense this entire thread for everyone, especially the new readers. The posters on here were all great leaders, saved many lives, always got the mission done, never had a failure, never lost a plane, always put the bomb on target, didn't want to make Chief because they only wanted to do the grimy and hard work and didn't want to have to play politics or suck up, a lot of them feel if one doesn't fly planes or put them in the air then one is simply an aide to the real mission workers, many battle scars from our strong powerful warriors posting on here, multiple heroes, many worked with the Army so they are better then those that haven't worked with the Army, some ate snakes, some ate the enemies, some are really good at grammar and love to correct others at it and everyone on this topic thread knows that the AF Creed was stolen from the Army and it means didly squat to the real leaders and means a lot to non-leading wannabe leaders. If you know the Creed by heart you must have nothing else to do with your time and surely aren't mission focused at all so you should quickly forget it so you have room for mission focus in your clouded mind. If a Commander does not go on a forum and pledge his support for his CCM then this commander must surely think his CCM has lost sight and must relieve him of his job so he can retire. The Air Force is falling apart because of the bad CCM and other E-9s and it has nothing to do with anything else at all.

Not so fast my friends, the Air Force is not falling apart and we are still by far the best and most powerful Air Force in the world so quit acting like it is all going to hell because of one guy's post that you all put your own spin on. I used my heavy sarcasm font in the preceding paragraph and put my own spin on a lot of your posts, but I swear I know what you meant.

This is a pretty good post, well stated. With that said, the Chief did make some rookie mistakes with his original email.

AirDrop23
09-06-2011, 06:47 PM
The wing commander should X this guy on the spot. And if he is on board with this nosense, then the AFCENT/CC should get ridden of them both.

Forsaken Wombat
09-06-2011, 06:47 PM
What part of the "mission is excelling here" don't you understand? The leaders here do go out of their way to make the mission happen and it is at very impressive rates, you guys make it sound like the world is falling apart and it is because of an email sent out in Kuwait. Get off the bandwagon everyone else is on since it is on a deadend road.

Maybe you fail to realize that this idiotic Email is but another geyser of idiocy spewing forth from the Ivory Tower of Ignorance (where more and more of our leaders seem to congregating these days) and raining down like sun-soured sh*t onto the rank & file. It is not as though our Service is completely perfect and care-free & this Email is just something everyone is using as a stress-relieving pinata.

No, this is but the freshest stream of skeet-skeet which has found its way from the bowels of stupidity and is now on the record books & on our faces. Another instance that chips away at our faith in our leaders. I know I want a Command Chief, a SNCO, who is not concerned with pony shows and trying to impress DVs with a sing-a-long and a chant-a-long. I would want a Command Chief who would thump the skull of whatever is trying to nibble at the morale of the enlisted corps in a deployed environment, not a Command Chief who is biting off said chunks, wholesale.

Some people say these are reasons they are getting out. I see these as reasons I need to stay in.

OtisRNeedleman
09-06-2011, 06:48 PM
What part of the "mission is excelling here" don't you understand? The leaders here do go out of their way to make the mission happen and it is at very impressive rates, you guys make it sound like the world is falling apart and it is because of an email sent out in Kuwait. Get off the bandwagon everyone else is on since it is on a deadend road. Please...spent enough years in the AF to know the real score, E-1 to field grade here. "Leadership" like this E-9 values style over substance, otherwise the email would never have gone out. The email speaks for itself. The TROOPS make the mission happen.

OtisRNeedleman
09-06-2011, 06:51 PM
Good analogy...made me laugh. And sometimes I actually feel that way when I'm around the Army. When did it all start going wrong? I keep trying to pin it on a timeframe. Sometimes I think it started with McPeak and then other days I think maybe it was after that. It's hard to pin down...maybe it's because we've been going down hill for so long that what sounded ludicrous a month or a year ago is nothing compared to what is going on at the moment, and then a month later that seems normal when somebody else comes up with another hair brained scheme. I give it two years and ya'll will be required to wear PT shorts with the waistband approximately 4-6 inches above the navel. Not only that, suspenders will need to be worn with those PT shorts...just in case.

ART
09-06-2011, 06:54 PM
Not only that, suspenders will need to be worn with those PT shorts...just in case.

...and shirt garters to make you stay TUCKED.

EOMFD/GFYM8
09-06-2011, 06:56 PM
What part of the "mission is excelling here" don't you understand? The leaders here do go out of their way to make the mission happen and it is at very impressive rates, you guys make it sound like the world is falling apart and it is because of an email sent out in Kuwait. Get off the bandwagon everyone else is on since it is on a deadend road.

Dude, (and I can call you that because I'm a SNCO) your wing is doing its mission; we all know that. We aren't saying that the air force is falling apart because of the creed or that mission accomplishment and the creed are mutually exclusive. What we, well I, am saying is that force-feeding the creed is just one in a litany of hair-brained, good-idea-fairy inspired distractions. These distractions seem to get more ridiculous and the rift between big blue and little blue seems to grow.

Here's the absolute truth, airmen and junior NCOs feel (when you ask them) that leadership doesn't care about them and is out of touch. By leadership I mean operational and strategic, not tactical. Go ask an airman; if he's not a suck-ass, that what he'll tell you. I hear it over and over. I've even heard airmen say it to four-stars, but alas the silliness continues.

I'm also not sure where you got from this thread that people think they're better than anyone (even though some are...joking).

OtisRNeedleman
09-06-2011, 06:58 PM
This is a pretty good post, well stated. With that said, the Chief did make some rookie mistakes with his original email. But by the time one makes E-9, one can no longer be considered a rookie. Believe the man knew exactly what he was saying.

BRUWIN
09-06-2011, 07:05 PM
What part of the "mission is excelling here" don't you understand? The leaders here do go out of their way to make the mission happen and it is at very impressive rates, you guys make it sound like the world is falling apart and it is because of an email sent out in Kuwait. Get off the bandwagon everyone else is on since it is on a deadend road.

The Air Force is almost half the size it was during Desert Storm. We are flying aircraft with an average age of 30 years.

We can't seem to get a new tanker...even when we try we hose it all up.

The previous Sec Def fired our leaders and claimed getting ISR out of us was like "pulling teeth."

Our personnel and finance systems have been decimated through force reductions to pay for a fighter jet that right now can't even fly. As a result folks are pretty much on their own - I once personally had a troop that was not paid for over 5 MONTHS (I was completely embarrassed for myself and my peers because the stripes I wear could do nothing to fix it).

I have troops leaving a career field with a 6.5 SRB ($90,000 for a 6 year reup) despite the economy because of the AF insanity. A few have tried to leave for THE ARMY and were turned down because of our cronic critical status.. Maybe you could insinuate I'm one of the reasons they are leaving...but I would laugh at you, and I would hazard a guess most of my troops would as well. JMO though.

We have been filling Army deployments in a flammable uniform with several different collar boot variations because we can't even figure out uniform requirements.

My list is endless. The Air Force is broke...and I have no problem admitting it.

MKopack
09-06-2011, 07:16 PM
What part of the "mission is excelling here" don't you understand? The leaders here do go out of their way to make the mission happen and it is at very impressive rates, you guys make it sound like the world is falling apart and it is because of an email sent out in Kuwait. Get off the bandwagon everyone else is on since it is on a deadend road.

Then THAT is the message he should have sent. Let people know that they are kicking the mission's @$$, and that he, and everyone else knows it and he might just notice that all of the "small stuff" falls into place. Why keep pushing, and pushing on people who are already winning the mission while deployed downrange?

MACHINE666
09-06-2011, 07:18 PM
The Air Force is a short bus full of retards on fire, screaming incoherently off a cliff at 90 mph, Bruwin. Behind the wheel is our leadership dressed up like Dr Rockso hopped up on cocaine, every time they espouse a change to the uniform, PT requirements, or some new feel-good catch phrase.

With any such luck there will be one or two survivors Wile E. Coyote style, when all is said and done.

KuwaitSNCO
09-06-2011, 07:19 PM
But by the time one makes E-9, one can no longer be considered a rookie. Believe the man knew exactly what he was saying.

Oh yes, no Generals have ever made a mistake and I am sure you haven't either. Just putting my spin on what you said.

KuwaitSNCO
09-06-2011, 07:21 PM
Dude, (and I can call you that because I'm a SNCO) your wing is doing its mission; we all know that. We aren't saying that the air force is falling apart because of the creed or that mission accomplishment and the creed are mutually exclusive. What we, well I, am saying is that force-feeding the creed is just one in a litany of hair-brained, good-idea-fairy inspired distractions. These distractions seem to get more ridiculous and the rift between big blue and little blue seems to grow.

Here's the absolute truth, airmen and junior NCOs feel (when you ask them) that leadership doesn't care about them and is out of touch. By leadership I mean operational and strategic, not tactical. Go ask an airman; if he's not a suck-ass, that what he'll tell you. I hear it over and over. I've even heard airmen say it to four-stars, but alas the silliness continues.

I'm also not sure where you got from this thread that people think they're better than anyone (even though some are...joking).

Just putting my spin on what I think you guys think since you know what the CCM thinks.

MACHINE666
09-06-2011, 07:26 PM
Just putting my spin on what I think you guys think since you know what the CCM thinks.

Five bucks says you're secretly him, and you created an account here on Military Times when you found out you were getting roasted for the e-mail you sent out.

:D :D :D :D :D :D

KuwaitSNCO
09-06-2011, 07:28 PM
Five bucks says you're secretly him, and you created an account here on Military Times when you found out you were getting roasted for the e-mail you sent out.

:D :D :D :D :D :D

You lost 5 bucks, please donate it to the 9/11 memorial fund before next weeks 10 year anniversary.

Bumble78
09-06-2011, 07:29 PM
If he wants to gauge true leadership potential in the USAF enlist corps he should ask random questions from the PDG and SKT, as those are things that the Air Force has used for decades to promote people, and they are actually relevant to the job at hand.
PDG, where we came from and where we are going, along with currentish knowledge of AFIs.
SKT, job knowledge, enough said.

If you are lacking knowledge of those two areas, you might need to rethink your leadership potential in the USAF.
That is my $0.02 and means absolutely nothing.

MACHINE666
09-06-2011, 07:30 PM
You lost 5 bucks, please donate it to the 9/11 memorial fund before next weeks 10 year anniversary.

I don't believe you. Show two forms of ID here, posted for everyone to see, and then I'll donate the cash if you're still right!

:D :D :D :D :D

BRUWIN
09-06-2011, 07:31 PM
Just putting my spin on what I think you guys think since you know what the CCM thinks.

I would hope an e-mail composed by a CCM says exactly what he thinks and not something we have to read into after being told it's not what he really thinks.

KuwaitSNCO
09-06-2011, 07:32 PM
I don't believe you. Show two forms of ID here, posted for everyone to see, and then I'll donate the cash if you're still right!

:D :D :D :D :D

I have integrity, do you? If you do, then pay up. It goes to a good cause!

BRUWIN
09-06-2011, 07:32 PM
The Air Force is a short bus full of retards on fire, screaming incoherently off a cliff at 90 mph,

LOL...Some days I feel like I'm one of those screaming retards. Today is one.

BigBaze
09-06-2011, 07:33 PM
First Sergeant, KuwaitSNCO, and StandardsAMust: I recommend pre-treating with OxyClean(C) to get those blude Kool-Aid stains off the fronts of your shirts.

First off, it doesn't matter how much you've done in your career; if you're acting like a tool, people will notice. (a la the old saying, "You can build bridges your whole life, but if you suck one cock, you'll be remembered as a cocksucker, not a bridge builder.")

Second, I can't be proud of the air force (lower caps intentional) that constantly invents traditions, changes the traditions it does have, and focuses inordinate amounts of energy and resources toward anything other than core mission areas. The air force is like a first grader trying to hang out with his older brother.


you good sir owe me a new laptop because I sprayed my drink all over it :)

MACHINE666
09-06-2011, 07:34 PM
I have integrity, do you? If you do, then pay up. It goes to a good cause!

Trust but verify! Now quit stalling!

:D :D :D :D :D

MACHINE666
09-06-2011, 07:41 PM
LOL...Some days I feel like I'm one of those screaming retards. Today is one.

No Bruwin, you're too smart - you're Doctor Rockso with a shovelful of blow hanging off his nose. I've seen your handiwork before (e-mails).

MKopack
09-06-2011, 07:44 PM
Oh yes, no Generals have ever made a mistake and I am sure you haven't either. Just putting my spin on what you said.

Sure I have, and back when I was in I was trusted even as an A1C with a year in service to make a judgment call at the End of Runway on whether the fuel leak on the aircraft was "good to go" or whether I'd have to tell the General in the cockpit that I was going abort his flight and send him back to the ramp. Did he like my decision? No, but he backed me up on it when it was questioned.

Today it seems an airman can't even be trusted decide whether he can put his sunglasses on his head while he sticks his head inside a dark servicing panel to service his airplane's engine oil - or walk down a sidewalk without a reflective belt. We all like to brag about just how qualified and trained our enlisted corps is (and they are), and then we treat them like kindergartners.

If we can't trust our Airmen to make priority decisions on the small stuff, how can we expect them to do it when lives are on the line? There isn't always a Chief or SNCO standing there to hold your hand...

OtisRNeedleman
09-06-2011, 07:44 PM
Oh yes, no Generals have ever made a mistake and I am sure you haven't either. Just putting my spin on what you said. If the email in question was one or two paragraphs, I'd agree it was a brain fart. I've had 'em, still have 'em. However, the E-9's email was pages long, with a lengthy p.s. attached. No, this guy was firing for effect.

DWWSWWD
09-06-2011, 07:45 PM
Oh yes, no Generals have ever made a mistake and I am sure you haven't either. Just putting my spin on what you said.

Chief Balutski? Is that you?

Pullinteeth
09-06-2011, 07:52 PM
This is a pretty good post, well stated. With that said, the Chief did make some rookie mistakes with his original email.

Are you saying a CCM with a Comm background has trouble communicating?

:doh

Forsaken Wombat
09-06-2011, 07:55 PM
Chief Balutski? Is that you?


I have a creeping suspicion it is him...

KuwaitSNCO
09-06-2011, 08:03 PM
Chief Balutski? Is that you?

My last post on this topic is to assure you that I am not Chief Balutski and hopefully he quit reading this thread a long time ago. Sports stars all the time refuse to read articles about themselves because they know so much of a story is twisted and I am hoping he did the same.

(This part is for all) Please stop all this nonsense out of respect for him and his family and he did not tell me to post this, this is just what I would want if it was about me for the sake of my wife and three kids that love their dad.

Thanks and God bless all of you!

imported_Gigglendorf
09-06-2011, 08:03 PM
What part of the "mission is excelling here" don't you understand?

What part of DESPITE "leadership" as displayed in that email don't you understand?

Pullinteeth
09-06-2011, 08:08 PM
(This part is for all) Please stop all this nonsense out of respect for him and his family and he did not tell me to post this, this is just what I would want if it was about me for the sake of my wife and three kids that love their dad.


I am just wondering why? Commenting on an email or series of emails and policies isn't the same as attacking the individual. I don't know him and all I know about him is what I read so I don't really have anything positive or negative to say about him. As far as the emails though....that is a whole different ballgame and I don't understand why you think commenting on them would hurt his wife and/or children?

OtisRNeedleman
09-06-2011, 08:33 PM
My last post on this topic is to assure you that I am not Chief Balutski and hopefully he quit reading this thread a long time ago. Sports stars all the time refuse to read articles about themselves because they know so much of a story is twisted and I am hoping he did the same.

(This part is for all) Please stop all this nonsense out of respect for him and his family and he did not tell me to post this, this is just what I would want if it was about me for the sake of my wife and three kids that love their dad.

Thanks and God bless all of you!I fail to see your point. The discussion of the email has nothing to do with the E-9's family, unless you are, in fact, the E-9 and are hiding behind your family to deflect criticism.

grimreaper
09-06-2011, 08:42 PM
Oh yes, no Generals have ever made a mistake and I am sure you haven't either. Just putting my spin on what you said.

What? First you say it's everyone elses fault because they misinterpreted what he meant and are misrepresenting what he said, now it looks like you're saying he made a mistake and we're being unfair because everyone makes mistakes. So which is it?

Email #1, which is more or less nothing but a threat, completely contradicts email #2. That is called full-on backpedal mode if I've ever seen it.

Comm Chief
09-06-2011, 08:43 PM
Are you saying a CCM with a Comm background has trouble communicating?

:doh

Oh yeah...us comm guys can be the worst communicators. Chief forgot the basics taught in ALS. I bet he wishes he could have that email back.

MKopack
09-06-2011, 08:53 PM
It's a question of leadership. Sending out an e-mail demanding compliance in singing songs (or any of his other *MT messages that have filtered out) isn't leadership, it's management at its worst - and no more effective than the US is at managing our budget, our waistlines, or our health care.

http://www.coachwyatt.com/Robin%20Olds%20pilot.jpg
On the other hand, if this guy had asked any of those seen here carrying him - officer or enlisted - after his last mission, I'll bet they'd have happily sang any song that anyone would have liked.

What is different here? Why, we should probably be asking, would these guys sing at the tops of their lungs, when they were losing people they knew regularly and in the middle of a war whose unpopularity makes today's seem like child's play but when a current Air Force "leader" asks us to sing, we end up with a thread like this.

Now I don't know the Chief, he may well be a good guy, but at the very least he's fallen victim the the epic lack of mission focus that has taken over our Air Force, top to bottom. We've lost our way. If someone stops me on my way to the bathroom in the middle of the night because of some perceived uniform infraction, we've lost our way. If an NCO, of any rank, disrespectfully calls out an Officer in public for some perceived infraction, we've lost our way. If you've ever been told that you have to attend a Tops in Blue 'performance' while deployed, just so someone will be there, we've lost our way. If reciting the 'Air Force creed' when some congressman visits even merits an e-mail to the troops, we've lost our way.

What would Olds, LeMay, Gabreski, Zemke, Rickenbacker, Mitchell, Doolittle or any other of the true leaders in our rich Air Force Heritage do? I can't say for sure, but I'll bet they wouldn't be stopping people randomly to see if they knew the words to the Air Force hymn.

None of us can go out and win the conflicts that we are in, but in losing sight of the real Mission, we can go out and lose it.

BRUWIN
09-06-2011, 09:07 PM
It's a question of leadership. Sending out an e-mail demanding compliance in singing songs (or any of his other *MT messages that have filtered out) isn't leadership, it's management at its worst - and no more effective than the US is at managing our budget, our waistlines, or our health care.

http://www.coachwyatt.com/Robin%20Olds%20pilot.jpg
On the other hand, if this guy had asked any of those seen here carrying him - officer or enlisted - after his last mission, I'll bet they'd have happily sang any song that anyone would have liked.



This was a guy that couldn't seem to get his mustache within standards but was one of the AF's greatest leaders.

TJMAC77SP
09-06-2011, 09:07 PM
My last post on this topic is to assure you that I am not Chief Balutski and hopefully he quit reading this thread a long time ago. Sports stars all the time refuse to read articles about themselves because they know so much of a story is twisted and I am hoping he did the same.

(This part is for all) Please stop all this nonsense out of respect for him and his family and he did not tell me to post this, this is just what I would want if it was about me for the sake of my wife and three kids that love their dad.

Thanks and God bless all of you!

Your sarcasm aside.....your posts confuse me. Are you stating that the CCM made a mistake posting the email because that is how I read all your sarcasm about the other posters never having made a mistake? If not, exactly what was your objective in posting?

Was it simply to appeal to all to stop bitch-slapping the CCM for the sake of his family?

((BTW: Not sure the purpose of your platitudes but they are probably one reason more than more poster suspects you have a personal agenda in this thread. Thanks and God Bless you too))

Nickymaz
09-06-2011, 09:22 PM
Back when this thread was in it's infancy I posted on my views as an officer. I have given it more thought and I'd like to expand on some of what I and others have written.

I am currently deployed to Qatar and I happen to work in an office with many high ranking officer, O-6 and up. These men (they just happen to be all men) work extremely hard every day to make sure we are accomplishing the mission; everything from supporting the guys on the ground to courting the support of our host nations so we can keep these lovely bases open. They work at least 12 hrs a day and very often they are in the office 14-16 hrs. Can anyone guess how many seconds in the day they spend thinking about the airman's creed? Can anyone guess how many times I have been asked by one of these senior officers to recite the creed? The answer to both is zero.

Someone mentioned that leaders must prioritize and I think that's an excellent point. The colonels and generals I work with avoid getting too much in the weeds, or "climbing into the cockpit" as one put it. They have to trust that leaders down the chain are doing their jobs and making right decisions. They focus on the strategic and operational level and leave the tactical decisions to others.

Honestly, I feel that the first email the Chief sent out reflects someone with WAY too much time of his hands and someone who has his sights set on the wrong target. His focus should be on the big picture stuff; generating sorties, ensuring his troops have the equipment and supplies to get the job done, keeping up good relations with the Kuwaitis etc. The deployed leader should be focused on the mission at hand, not training. Training is what you do before you deploy and is the focus of the home station leaders. Whether an airmen knows the creed or not has zero bearing on the mission. Also, his point about impressing senior leaders and elected officials as way off the mark. How many senators know there is such a thing as an airman's creed? How many care? How many will be turned off my an auditorium full of zombie-like airmen chanting?

Furthermore I feel all his emails reflect very poor communication skills. He is needlessly verbose and his use of terms like vector, void, space, "rock" bottom line, sounds like something from an MBA term paper. Someone else mentioned the term brevity, he should look it up. This is not at all a personal indictment, I'm sure he is a patriotic American who loves his family etc.

Z1911
09-06-2011, 09:28 PM
My last post on this topic is to assure you that I am not Chief Balutski and hopefully he quit reading this thread a long time ago. Sports stars all the time refuse to read articles about themselves because they know so much of a story is twisted and I am hoping he did the same.

(This part is for all) Please stop all this nonsense out of respect for him and his family and he did not tell me to post this, this is just what I would want if it was about me for the sake of my wife and three kids that love their dad.

Thanks and God bless all of you!


And God bless you as well, but I wonder...

Just out of curiosity, if the CCM in question, while out trolling for e-somethings to parrot a creed or partake in a sing-a-long, came to an abrupt, no warning halt, could you stop in time to avoid a collision with his hind-parts?

grimreaper
09-06-2011, 09:33 PM
And God bless you as well, but I wonder...

Just out of curiosity, if the CCM in question, while out trolling for e-somethings to parrot a creed or partake in a sing-a-long, came to an abrupt, no warning halt, could you stop in time to avoid a collision with his hind-parts?


ROFL, I guess the CCM would have something to fill his void with.

Comm Chief
09-06-2011, 09:37 PM
What would Olds, LeMay, Gabreski, Zemke, Rickenbacker, Mitchell, Doolittle or any other of the true leaders in our rich Air Force Heritage do? I can't say for sure, but I'll bet they wouldn't be stopping them randomly to see if they knew the words to the Air Force hymn.


If it was 1939 we'd be bitching about Hap Arnold cramming that damn song down our throats.

MACHINE666
09-06-2011, 09:42 PM
If it was 1939 we'd be bitching about Hap Arnold cramming that damn song down our throats.

And I'd be getting my ass handed to me in Poland by the Nazis.

Oh yeah. The Machine has a hint o' the Heeb in his heritage too!

:D :D :D :D :D

ScarlettGTO
09-06-2011, 09:45 PM
I see October or Novembers front page story on the AF Times forming rather quickly :-)

Z1911
09-06-2011, 09:47 PM
If it was 1939 we'd be bitching about Hap Arnold cramming that damn song down our throats.

Not too sure about that...The song was originally intended to be a "drinking song" , as in sung around the bar, and as you are no doubt aware, we no longer are allowed to drink adult beverages, therefore we no longer have bars (except for the now traditional flying squadron "heritage room"). Which, without going off on a tangent, is one of the primary reasons o-clubs and e-clubs are failing. Both are/were traditions that are no longer politically correct...

Z1911
09-06-2011, 09:52 PM
What would Olds, LeMay, Gabreski, Zemke, Rickenbacker, Mitchell, Doolittle or any other of the true leaders in our rich Air Force Heritage do? I can't say for sure, but I'll bet they wouldn't be stopping people randomly to see if they knew the words to the Air Force hymn.

We're not old enough to have traditions...Call me in 36 years when the AF has reached the 100 year mark.

That's presuming, of course, we haven't been folded back into our parent organization, and been re-re-named the Army Air Corps...

MACHINE666
09-06-2011, 09:52 PM
Not too sure about that...The song was originally intended to be a "drinking song" , as in sung around the bar, and as you are no doubt aware, we no longer are allowed to drink adult beverages, therefore we no longer have bars (except for the now traditional flying squadron "heritage room"). Which, without going off on a tangent, is one of the primary reasons o-clubs and e-clubs are failing. Both are/were traditions that are no longer politically correct...

I blame McPeak and his pseudo-corporate-izing of the Air Force, along with the Political-Correctness Hillary Clinton shoved on the military in the 90's. And the lack of any back-bone from Chiefs and the like for allowing this to happen.

BRUWIN
09-06-2011, 09:59 PM
That's presuming, of course, we haven't been folded back into our parent organization, and been re-re-named the Army Air Corps...

That is one of my 5MTs. I think we should be vectored back to the Army.

Rock Bottom Line: We already support the Army in the Air, we fill their ILO voids, Seriously...it's a no-brainer.

imported_WRA342
09-06-2011, 10:02 PM
I disagree that a CCM is an "Earned Position” Granted, you have to earn Chief to be eligible, but a CCM is nothing more than a political appointment. This creed nonsense only validates the fact that the leadership is completely out of touch with the rank and file. In the Circles that I travel, The Creed does not exist except in PME. We have much bigger issues in the AF Today than the Creed!!!

KuwaitSNCO, if you are as close to this as your claim, I would give this E-9 some assertive SNCO advice before he does any more damage to the political appointed position of Command Chief.

MKopack
09-06-2011, 10:04 PM
If it was 1939 we'd be bitching about Hap Arnold cramming that damn song down our throats.

Do you really think that everyone in 1939 sang it at Commander's Calls like some sort to demented "Glee-in-review"?

And actually, your post makes a pretty good point - looking back at 1939, our priorities just might have been a bit off target. All of those P-35 and P-36's didn't really help out a couple of years later...

JD2780
09-06-2011, 10:17 PM
Robin Olds wouldnt have been cramming this down out throats!!! He would've said EFF THIS I NEED A COMB FOR MY SWEET STACHE NOW GET IT AIRMAN AND GROW ONE WHILE YOU'RE AT IT!!!

ART
09-06-2011, 10:48 PM
This was a guy that couldn't seem to get his mustache within standards but was one of the AF's greatest leaders.

Kinda destroys this canard, doesn't it?


If they can't follow simple standards how do you expect them to follow standards that life and limb depend on?

Just sayin'

loadsmith
09-06-2011, 11:21 PM
I like to welcome our new members from the ASAB Top 3. I guess this topic came up over breakfast this morning and now we have people trying to justify the CCM's email. I have spent many a deployment at ASAB, I can honestly tell you that any VIP or "special person" stopping thru there is mainly there to get off their nice "white jet" and jump onto a Herk or a C-17 for the flight up north. I can bet my pay check they don't give a rat's ass about sitting thru a CC Call where folks are singing and chanting, in that regard the CCM's logic is flawed.

The problem I see with many CCMs is their lack of true operational/real AF experience. Many of the people in that position are so far removed from the reality of today's AF. They can talk a good game, take the photos and lead behind emails but not many have the credentials to earn the respect of those that they lead.

MajesticThunder
09-06-2011, 11:25 PM
Southwest Asia

Commentary by Chief Master Sgt. Xxxxxx Xxxxxxx
XXX Air Expeditionary Wing Command Chief

Chief’s Corner:

All now hail my in vogue and mesmerizing mentor…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QhcXDAssm4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKVqhQYBFyY


CC Action Line:

COMPLAINT:

As your Command Chief Master Sergeant, does he still have your earnest confidence to maintain an effective liaison between you and the enlisted force?

Does he ensure your command policies are known and understood by the enlisted force?

Can he still effectively advise you on decisive enlisted issues?


RESPONSE:

Pending.

MKopack
09-06-2011, 11:56 PM
I would love to see how Patton and Olds would've gotten along. :)

In the end, it's Army-think versus (then) Air Force-think, "do as you're told" vs. "use your judgment to get the job done". Would have been interesting to watch, as both tended to be pretty set in their ways and not afraid to state their opinions. Once it came to blows, I'd give the edge to the 6'4" College Football Hall of Fame Tackle, Olds. But I wouldn't want to be up too close....

SENDBILLMONEY
09-06-2011, 11:59 PM
If you mix up the letters in AIRMAN'S CREED you get

A NERD I SCREAM
You also get RISE AND CREAM

KellyinAvon
09-07-2011, 01:30 AM
Well, if he isn't reading it, at least someone here is. Here's the latest and greatest email--I did take out two words that are sort of mission related, but that doesn't affect the message at all.

Oh, and it looks like the driving factor for all of this is... Embarassment.



"BLUF: Answers to Airman’s Creed and Air Force Song requirements.

Never thought I’d be compelled to answer the “Why’s” on this AGAIN, but after the Wing Chaplain asked for a sit-down with me this morning he passed on a perspective I hadn’t thought about.

The Chaplain was worried about all the negative talk, blogs, and emails floating around cyberspace about my 5MT’s that he wanted to make sure I was aware of it. I told him that I was aware of everything since day 1, since I somewhat expected it. This wasn’t the first time I had used this particular 5MT. Then he asked me for more in-depth reasons behind the 5MTs I issue to the Enlisted, so I provided a few STRATEGIC reasons in short order. Basically, because he asked. After that short discussion, he fervently asked that I share those with you as well. I said that I would do so eventually…but he asked me again “with conviction” that I do it sooner as opposed to later. So I will.

Here goes:
In my first 5MT email I talked about changing the way we execute the Airman’s Creed and AF Song in public forums. Forums that are hosted by the Wing CC…my Boss. In other 5MT’s I talked about wear of the uniform issues and representing your units while you’re out and about on this base. You were asked to be Wingmen, Leaders, and Warriors in those regards as well.

Now why would those be important? Two very basic reasons. Uniformity and discipline.
Great in theory, but only worthwhile if we have an execution piece. That execution piece is right in front of us…and will continue to grow.

Over the course of the next few months all eyes will be on this wing. Many high-level officials will be coming here to put eyes on our efforts. Senators, Congressmen, Service Secretaries, Senior COCOM leaders, and maybe even higher. Many of those folks will request an Airman’s call where we pack a couple hundred people into our Theater for a forum.
As is the tradition, those forums will afford us TWO times where WE can execute something as a WING. Those times are when we recite the AC and sing the AFS. The very first time we did this as a wing was in a word…embarrassing. We can’t have that happen.

Since 90% of those voices will be ENLISTED, 90% of the opportunity to show uniformity in those LIMITED engagements will be OURS. Similarly, 90% of the opportunity to look disjointed will be ours as well. Say what you may, but this is where we can collectively show pride for those Marauders not in attendance . Granted, there’s no technical sense or mission sense in reciting the Creed or Singing the Song. But for those who can and will, you can make a statement about being an American Airman and a Marauder. I’m confident that we’ll display being of one function, form, and voice during those Airman’s calls on the horizon. One of those is tomorrow afternoon and the CC will be leading us all in the Airman’s Creed and the AF Song. We won’t let him down.

Our elected officials won’t get to see us perform at the tactical level and won’t watch our Aircrews as they maintain a 98% mission effectiveness rate. They won’t see the countless hours on post or our “hot & dirty” maintainers turning wrenches on the flight line. They’ll mostly get a mission brief and driving tour before an Airman’s call. What I hope they DO see in the Airman’s calls is the equivalent of the Pacific Islands’ “Haka”…a coordinated activity executed in unison to show that all of us are inextricable joined in the fight. Will this “Haka” make us play or fight better. No. Will it force our spectators to take notice? I can almost guarantee it.

Our visitors will see very few Airman in the trenches. They’ll drive by and see people walking about. Their uniforms and personal grooming will speak for the wing as well. Good or bad…uniform wear is also a voice. The way we’re represented will speak for our entire service…especially if the viewing party is a coalition leader or US Government official.

Finally, to clear-up the misconception about calling people out. Here’s how that will go down. It’s not going to be me doing the majority of the call-outs. It will primarily be the Junior Airmen calling us senior folks out. SFS folks are doing it now. Honor Guard members are doing that now. Sure, the CC and I have asked for gathered groups to recite in unison. Those who could…did. So, will I ever make a public spectacle of someone over this? Absolutely not. Will I ever humiliate someone over this? Never. Do I still expect folks to know it. Absolutely yes. Ask around…there haven’t been any Airmen singled out to recite. There have been groups though. And every sortie went perfectly.

BOTTOM LINE: I guarantee that some will continue to poke holes and cast dispersions into this exercise in uniformity, leadership, and followership. Have at it. Some will argue that the words to the Creed are all just words. I guess that’s where the basic problem begins and ends.

ROCK BOTTOM LINE: I’m more interested in the mission than ANYTHING else. I am more interested in our Airman than in our stuff. I am more interested in Professional Development than in making sure nobody gets their feelings hurt. I expect good order and discipline. And, if you remembered this from previous emails…I asked all of US to make the AC personal to you…especially since those stanzas begin with I.

V/R"

OK, who's the Chaplain? Chaplain Shrike? Chaplin Bruwin? Chaplain Bender? Chaplain Machine666 (good cover you have to admit)? Chaplain ChiefB?? Maybe young K9 cop ScarlettGTO is the undercover Chaplain,,,, NAAAH!! Seriously, how many bottom lines do you need?? :madgrin

ConfusedAirman
09-07-2011, 01:31 AM
One of Balutski's defenders questioned use of the camel picture. It was available via Defense Video & Imagery Distribution System at http://www.dvidshub.net/news/73244/third-army-troops-celebrate-independence-day-us-embassy . The speech extract link was already provided.

Sorry if his wife or kids may read all of this negative commentary but why should his defenders expect that the only thing they hear about his career are the sunny side-up, feel good things.

At this point I sincerely hope that either his current wing/cc or someone with the power at CENTAF realizes that there is no way in hell he can continue to be an effective CCM at his location and quietly send him home. The same should apply when he gets back home and he be highly encouraged to retire ASAP. Yes, I believe that his heart was in the right place and he believed in what he was doing, but that is the problem. He really believed the crap he wrote and is angry that others don't. Just like many of us have lost faith in the AF because of this type of BS, he is free to lose faith with the AF because the rest of us don't believe in his BS.

chevyman
09-07-2011, 01:37 AM
I have to agree with some of the posters here that are saying we (the US Air Force) has lost its way. I do not ask my airmen if they know the Airman's Creed. I could care less if they do or do not, I focus on what the need to know it get the job done and the Creed does nothing to get the job done. The Airman Creed just a cheap rip-off of the Solider's Creed. It is like our leaders form the past McPeak, Mosely and Jumper high jacked a once proud branch on service and tried to make it a combination of IBM and US Army-Lite. I personnal hate the Creed and all that it stands for. I think it is insulting to the Navy Seals, Green Berets, Rangers Marine Force Recon, Marines and Soliders in general who are in thick of comabt to call myself a "warrior". Most of us in the Air Force will never go "outside the wire" so calling yourself a "warrior" because a ripped off Creed says so is just plain stupid. It is time the Air Force becomes the Air Force again. We were a proud branch of service long before some Creed came along and we will be fine with out it. We need to focus on what make the Air Force the Air Force, technical training, getting the job done and finding the enemy breaking his things and killing him.

KellyinAvon
09-07-2011, 02:00 AM
If it was 1939 we'd be bitching about Hap Arnold cramming that damn song down our throats.
Hap would have bought everyone a round and lead the singing from on top the piano.

KellyinAvon
09-07-2011, 02:03 AM
Wow, this thread is impressive. A little something for everyone.

KellyinAvon
09-07-2011, 02:47 AM
And just one more thing (to borrow a line from Lt Columbo). Isn't this the same guy who a few months back used the late great Robin Olds (and his ultra-cool handlebar stache) as a negative example in another rather wordy (unabridged dictionary wordy) e-mail that was appropriatly bashed on this very forum?? I seem to remember giving -1,000,000 rep points for that action. Subject CCM has just been given "uncool for life" status. I give people new names and uncool for life status, its what I do!:biggrin

BENDER56
09-07-2011, 05:04 AM
If you mix up the letters in AIRMAN'S CREED you get

A NERD I SCREAM
You also get RISE AND CREAM

Not to mention:

American Reds
Drama Sincere
Screamed Iran
Candies Rearm
Dancer Armies
Cadre Marines
Scared Airmen
Creamier Sand
Anemic Darers
Amnesic Darer
Arsenic Armed
Acne Admirers
Manic Readers
A Careers Mind
Screamed Ran I

...and that was a few among the first 1000 of 19,428 at http://wordsmith.org/anagram/anagram.cgi?anagram=airmanscreed&t=1000&a=n

Shrike
09-07-2011, 05:05 AM
Well,

Let me try to condense this entire thread for everyone, especially the new readers. The posters on here were all great leaders, saved many lives, always got the mission done, never had a failure, never lost a plane, always put the bomb on target, didn't want to make Chief because they only wanted to do the grimy and hard work and didn't want to have to play politics or suck up, a lot of them feel if one doesn't fly planes or put them in the air then one is simply an aide to the real mission workers, many battle scars from our strong powerful warriors posting on here, multiple heroes, many worked with the Army so they are better then those that haven't worked with the Army, some ate snakes, some ate the enemies, some are really good at grammar and love to correct others at it and everyone on this topic thread knows that the AF Creed was stolen from the Army and it means didly squat to the real leaders and means a lot to non-leading wannabe leaders. If you know the Creed by heart you must have nothing else to do with your time and surely aren't mission focused at all so you should quickly forget it so you have room for mission focus in your clouded mind. If a Commander does not go on a forum and pledge his support for his CCM then this commander must surely think his CCM has lost sight and must relieve him of his job so he can retire. The Air Force is falling apart because of the bad CCM and other E-9s and it has nothing to do with anything else at all.

Not so fast my friends, the Air Force is not falling apart and we are still by far the best and most powerful Air Force in the world so quit acting like it is all going to hell because of one guy's post that you all put your own spin on. I used my heavy sarcasm font in the preceding paragraph and put my own spin on a lot of your posts, but I swear I know what you meant.
<Chief Wiggum> That's some good deflecting, Lou! </Chief Wiggum>

BRUWIN
09-07-2011, 05:05 AM
Wow, this thread is impressive. A little something for everyone.

You should go to the other forum that someone had posted the link to earlier in this thread. The bag wearers are having a field day with this issue. I read some funny shit on this very subject posted in that forum. However, their spin on Chief's in general is not very good. I sense they may have had one or two go arounds with a Chief in their careers. It's amazing to me how sound advice and solid recommendations from an experienced Chief can be so easily misconstrued as being a blowhard.

I forgive them though...they are young and they know not what they say.

imported_CLSE
09-07-2011, 05:10 AM
Just finished reading the 25 pages...

Kuwait SNCO, First Sgt, CMSgt Balutski or whoever else is lurking on his behalf, some advice...

I'm a reservist with 18 years between active duty, Guard and Reserve. In my current civilian job, I have to represent the DoD and coordinate with other DoD agencies, non-military federal agencies and civilian companies.

One of the things that I've had to learn to do, as much as I hate it, is be more sensitive to who my audience is how my messages, written or otherwise, will be received. If I were to tell certain civilian companies what they really deserve to hear, it would create a PR nightmare for DoD, so I can't do it.

CMSgt Balutski created exactly that nightmare for himself and the wing and it's not like it was the result of a couple of ill-chosen words, the entire e-mail was one long threat and the tone of that e-mail was just as responsible for the response as the contents.

In short, he screwed up the execution...

As to getting people to memorize the creed and the AF song, the CMSgt Balutski just blew an opportunity demonstrate real leadership and instill pride in his troops.

Just for the record, I hate the creed and think it's an abomination, but I digress...

CMSgt Balutski should have communicated his belief that previous recitations of the creed and song sucked and that he wanted to fix the situation and wanted to do so in a way that would instill pride in everyone. Coming from that angle will get a lot more people on board than threatening them with being called out and grilled in public.

Again, he screwed up the execution...

Having the best bomber with the biggest bomb doesn't mean s**t if you can't get it to the target.

And if CMSgt Balutski's pride is damaged by what was written in this and other forums in regards to these e-mails, then it was pretty weak in the first place.

Shrike
09-07-2011, 05:11 AM
My last post on this topic is to assure you that I am not Chief Balutski and hopefully he quit reading this thread a long time ago. Sports stars all the time refuse to read articles about themselves because they know so much of a story is twisted and I am hoping he did the same.

(This part is for all) Please stop all this nonsense out of respect for him and his family and he did not tell me to post this, this is just what I would want if it was about me for the sake of my wife and three kids that love their dad.

Thanks and God bless all of you!
Comparing him to a "sports star"? Really? Why not just make the leap to full-on hagiography?

Shrike
09-07-2011, 05:16 AM
I see October or Novembers front page story on the AF Times forming rather quickly :-)
They don't have the balls.



Or do they?

Z1911
09-07-2011, 05:23 AM
HOLY CRAP BATMAN!!!

Twenty five pages and 249 replies/comments. This thing is taking on a life of it's own. Who's selling the movie rights?

BRUWIN
09-07-2011, 05:23 AM
Just finished reading the 25 pages...

Kuwait SNCO, First Sgt, CMSgt Balutski or whoever else is lurking on his behalf, some advice...

I'm a reservist with 18 years between active duty, Guard and Reserve. In my current civilian job, I have to represent the DoD and coordinate with other DoD agencies, non-military federal agencies and civilian companies.

One of the things that I've had to learn to do, as much as I hate it, is be more sensitive to who my audience is how my messages, written or otherwise, will be received. If I were to tell certain civilian companies what they really deserve to hear, it would create a PR nightmare for DoD, so I can't do it.

CMSgt Balutski created exactly that nightmare for himself and the wing and it's not like it was the result of a couple of ill-chosen words, the entire e-mail was one long threat and the tone of that e-mail was just as responsible for the response as the contents.

In short, he screwed up the execution...

As to getting people to memorize the creed and the AF song, the CMSgt Balutski just blew an opportunity demonstrate real leadership and instill pride in his troops.

Just for the record, I hate the creed and think it's an abomination, but I digress...

CMSgt Balutski should have communicated his belief that previous recitations of the creed and song sucked and that he wanted to fix the situation and wanted to do so in a way that would instill pride in everyone. Coming from that angle will get a lot more people on board than threatening them with being called out and grilled in public.

Again, he screwed up the execution...

Having the best bomber with the biggest bomb doesn't mean s**t if you can't get it to the target.

And if CMSgt Balutski's pride is damaged by what was written in this and other forums in regards to these e-mails, then it was pretty weak in the first place.

Proper communication and executing the message is always vital. When I was a MSgt at a squadron staff meeting one day I once proclaimed I thought my "foreskin" might be receding when I actually meant to say it was my "hairline" I thought was receding. I really don't know how I could mix the two terms up but I did and my intended message lost it's significance. I really didn't even know I said it until I saw the faces. I tried to add some humor by saying that people always thought I was kind of a dickhead anyways...it got some laughs, but again, my original message was lost.

Anyways...that was 13 years ago and I still have both my foreskin and my hair.

Shrike
09-07-2011, 05:27 AM
OK, who's the Chaplain? Chaplain Shrike? Chaplin Bruwin? Chaplain Bender? Chaplain Machine666 (good cover you have to admit)? Chaplain ChiefB?? Maybe young K9 cop ScarlettGTO is the undercover Chaplain,,,, NAAAH!! Seriously, how many bottom lines do you need?? :madgrin
Well, the BLUF is that I imagine you could substitute "Wing King" for "Chaplain" in that message in order to have it reflect reality a little more closely.

My MUFF (Middle Up-Front Focus) - is anyone else sort of amazed at the pace that internet message boards (it's not just this one, but quite a few others) affected such a 180-degree change from a senior "leader"?

The BLAB (Bottom Line at Bottom) - this would make a very interesting case study in how 21st Century communication is changing how we do business.

Shrike
09-07-2011, 05:29 AM
One of Balutski's defenders questioned use of the camel picture. It was available via Defense Video & Imagery Distribution System at http://www.dvidshub.net/news/73244/third-army-troops-celebrate-independence-day-us-embassy . The speech extract link was already provided.

Sorry if his wife or kids may read all of this negative commentary but why should his defenders expect that the only thing they hear about his career are the sunny side-up, feel good things.

At this point I sincerely hope that either his current wing/cc or someone with the power at CENTAF realizes that there is no way in hell he can continue to be an effective CCM at his location and quietly send him home. The same should apply when he gets back home and he be highly encouraged to retire ASAP. Yes, I believe that his heart was in the right place and he believed in what he was doing, but that is the problem. He really believed the crap he wrote and is angry that others don't. Just like many of us have lost faith in the AF because of this type of BS, he is free to lose faith with the AF because the rest of us don't believe in his BS.
Well said.
.

First Sergeant
09-07-2011, 05:44 AM
First Sergeant, KuwaitSNCO, and StandardsAMust: I recommend pre-treating with OxyClean(C) to get those blude Kool-Aid stains off the fronts of your shirts.

First off, it doesn't matter how much you've done in your career; if you're acting like a tool, people will notice. (a la the old saying, "You can build bridges your whole life, but if you suck one cock, you'll be remembered as a cocksucker, not a bridge builder.")

Second, I can't be proud of the air force (lower caps intentional) that constantly invents traditions, changes the traditions it does have, and focuses inordinate amounts of energy and resources toward anything other than core mission areas. The air force is like a first grader trying to hang out with his older brother.

First, the OxyClean line was cute but, in reality I'm probably the least blue First Sergeant you'll ever know. Why? I spent way to many years as a K9 Defender to buy the party line for everything. The most constant thing in the Air Force is change and no kidding, everything will change again before I have the pleasure putting my feet up and calling myself a civilian.

Second, If you don't like the Air Force, I'm really hoping you aren't in it with us. If you are, we've got plenty of ways of helping out into the civilian world. I'm sure there's a "now serving" sign with your name on it some where. I just hope you used your Air Force education and benefits to make the most of your transition out. I see a never ending line of people running out of the military looking for the big paycheck only to come back, one stripe lighter wishing they could have made it on the outside..

BRUWIN
09-07-2011, 05:53 AM
I just hope you used your Air Force education and benefits to make the most of your transition out. I see a never ending line of people running out of the military looking for the big paycheck only to come back, one stripe lighter wishing they could have made it on the outside..

True to a certain extent. I see the line out but not much of a line coming back in...well not in uniform anyways. I have 7 previous troops of mine all working in my unit right now as as GS's or contractors. They seem to like it out of uniform, and I'm guessing but I believe a couple of them are making more money than me.

And the bridgebuilder line? C'mon...tell me you didn't at least chuckle a little bit.

ScarlettGTO
09-07-2011, 06:00 AM
First, the OxyClean line was cute but, in reality I'm probably the least blue First Sergeant you'll ever know. Why? I spent way to many years as a K9 Defender to buy the party line for everything. The most constant thing in the Air Force is change and no kidding, everything will change again before I have the pleasure putting my feet up and calling myself a civilian.

Second, If you don't like the Air Force, I'm really hoping you aren't in it with us. If you are, we've got plenty of ways of helping out into the civilian world. I'm sure there's a "now serving" sign with your name on it some where. I just hope you used your Air Force education and benefits to make the most of your transition out. I see a never ending line of people running out of the military looking for the big paycheck only to come back, one stripe lighter wishing they could have made it on the outside..

You've pissed me off to no end with that statement! You were a Defender and a K-9 Defender to top it off? I don't doubt that you were but I would think with your current AF Kool-Aid drinking addiction and support of fools like the CCM you were far from a "K-9 Defender". You were probably what the other handlers called a "dog walker".

As a former Defender you know the shit that we trudge through on a daily basis. You know we have troops deploying months after completing tech school. You know that those very troops are deploying while still in their CDC's. You also should know the pressure that those troops feel while in those CDC's. To know a former Defender is willing to support a CCM who targets the lower ranks like he is is just plain sickening. I would rather my troops just worry about finishing their CDC's and EOC with an above average score than have to worry about memorizing a useless Creed! After finishing the CDC's and EOC they then need to become proficient in their job. Could they memorize the Creed while doing some of these other tasks? Sure, would I ask that of them? F@ck no and I could still get those airmen to follow me anywhere in the world. They have more important things to memorize and become proficient at.

I'm glad you don't have a badge anymore but I'm saddened you have a diamond and are responsible for airmen and their careers.

First Sergeant
09-07-2011, 06:20 AM
You've pissed me off to no end with that statement! You were a Defender and a K-9 Defender to top it off? I don't doubt that you were but I would think with your current AF Kool-Aid drinking addiction and support of fools like the CCM you were far from a "K-9 Defender". You were probably what the other handlers called a "dog walker".

As a former Defender you know the shit that we trudge through on a daily basis. You know we have troops deploying months after completing tech school. You know that those very troops are deploying while still in their CDC's. You also should know the pressure that those troops feel while in those CDC's. To know a former Defender is willing to support a CCM who targets the lower ranks like he is is just plain sickening. I would rather my troops just worry about finishing their CDC's and EOC with an above average score than have to worry about memorizing a useless Creed! After finishing the CDC's and EOC they then need to become proficient in their job. Could they memorize the Creed while doing some of these other tasks? Sure, would I ask that of them? F@ck no and I could still get those airmen to follow me anywhere in the world. They have more important things to memorize and become proficient at.

I'm glad you don't have a badge anymore but I'm saddened you have a diamond and are responsible for airmen and their careers.

Now how did I piss you of exactly? Is it because I am a former K9 Defender who is proud of being a Defender, a First Sergeant and a Defender First Sergeant? A dog walker? No, not at all. Do I have to shove the Airman's Creed down any Defender's throat? Nope, my Defenders took it upon themselves to learn it and challenge any visitor that came to thier posts. They did that all on thier own. Without me, the Superintendent, OPS O or CC asking them to do so.

Ask anyone one of my guys here, there or anywhere...K9 as well.... of where my focus has and always been. It's always been them (and my dog), always will and when I go back to the career field it will be again. I've never forgotten where I came from as a K9 Defender and that's important to me.

As far as my post about our CCM. I addressed the negativity of the forum, especially since yes, he's my CCM. I challenged those who are deployed here, to go talk to him directly if they had an issue. I also told them to run it through thier chain if they had an issue with the emails. Just like ANY good Defender supervisor and First Sergeant would tell them to do. Why? Because they have an issue with the Chief and THEY have the opportunity to the man face to face that he is wrong, right or whatever.

What exactly did I do wrong and why did I piss you off again? If you want to talk off line, PM me and we can chit chat all day long about being a K9 Defender....I bet I find out that we know each other....

VFFSSGT
09-07-2011, 06:25 AM
What in the world is going on in this thread?! I haven't paid much attention to it...but maybe I need to catch up. :mmph