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View Full Version : Air Force to cut 22 general officer jobs



PatrickP
04-04-2011, 10:17 PM
Air Force will lose 22 general officer billets and will have eight of its top scientist positions downgraded as part of wide-ranging cuts by the Pentagon aimed at shrinking the size of the military budget, Air Force Times has learned.


The memo targets 130 of the military’s 952 general and flag officer billets for elimination or reduction in rank, and the Air Force takes a bigger hit than the other services.

Just 22? Somebody tell Bob Gates he can eliminate more than that from the AF...we should give up more GO positions to show the Army and Marines we are "all in" :nod

VFFSSGT
04-04-2011, 10:44 PM
If this is similar to the article about GO cuts I read in AFT last week, then I am not sure if it will be any realized savings... Once you make 2- or 3- star...your pay ends up being capped. The article talked about changing various billets at various locations. So, if you take a 4-star billet and knock it down to a 3-star...where is the savings - they are both making the same because their pay is capped at around $14-15,000 a month.

And if you are talking 2- to 1-star billet...you are only talking $1-2K a month.

I agree we need to cut some of the big wigs out because there are far too many, but not sure this is much of anything for real.

Thunderhorse19
04-04-2011, 11:03 PM
The grade creep in the AF has become out of control in the last 10 years. I strongly agree...the AF should eliminate 100 of their generals and 100 of their SES's. They should reduce all Wing CC's from 1-star to colonel, like that crummy little AF base in Nebraska. The AF should reduce their vice/deputy CoS to a 3-star position. Also, the AF should reduce all lettered commands (AMC, ACC, etc) vice-CC's to 3-star. All numbered AF's (8th, 12th, etc) should have their vice-CC's reduced to 1-star. All Wing vice/deputy CC's should be reduced to light colonel (O-5). All Group CC's and their deputies should be Lt. Colonels and Majors. AF squadron CC's should be reduced to Majors. There are too many AF flag officers (active and civilian) in the joint military commands (36 in that little, good for nothing joint military command in Nebraska) overseeing each other. Then they retire, collect their 6-figure pensions, go to work for a defense contractor, collect another 6-figure income...and still oversee each other. The grade creep has got to end.

imported_blacksheep1208
04-04-2011, 11:04 PM
Can we take the money from the cuts and put it into NIPR computers that will work?

takthekak
04-05-2011, 01:10 AM
The grade creep in the AF has become out of control in the last 10 years. I strongly agree...the AF should eliminate 100 of their generals and 100 of their SES's. They should reduce all Wing CC's from 1-star to colonel, like that crummy little AF base in Nebraska. The AF should reduce their vice/deputy CoS to a 3-star position. Also, the AF should reduce all lettered commands (AMC, ACC, etc) vice-CC's to 3-star. All numbered AF's (8th, 12th, etc) should have their vice-CC's reduced to 1-star. All Wing vice/deputy CC's should be reduced to light colonel (O-5). All Group CC's and their deputies should be Lt. Colonels and Majors. AF squadron CC's should be reduced to Majors. There are too many AF flag officers (active and civilian) in the joint military commands (36 in that little, good for nothing joint military command in Nebraska) overseeing each other. Then they retire, collect their 6-figure pensions, go to work for a defense contractor, collect another 6-figure income...and still oversee each other. The grade creep has got to end.

"Are you not entertained" with these cuts?

BRUWIN
04-05-2011, 04:06 AM
You guys seem to think losing 22 GOs is gonna mean nothing to the AF. That's 22 GOs averaging about 30 years of knowledge and expertise. How many total years of knowledge and experience are we gonna lose? Do the math...I bet it's a lot. I come up with about 660 years...but I was using my fingers so I may be off a little bit.

Anyways..you talk about a leadership void. Mark my words...this will break us. I give it one or two years and people are gonna be running around with no reflective belts and wearing black sox with PT gear because now GOs will not be around to the tell Chief, who tells the First Sergeant, who tells the SNCO's, who tells the rest of the Air Force to get their shit uptight. It all starts from the top...and if the top ain't there then the house of cards falls. Well, maybe not fall because I guess GOs are at the very top. The house of cards will do something though.

raider8169
04-05-2011, 01:45 PM
If this is similar to the article about GO cuts I read in AFT last week, then I am not sure if it will be any realized savings... Once you make 2- or 3- star...your pay ends up being capped. The article talked about changing various billets at various locations. So, if you take a 4-star billet and knock it down to a 3-star...where is the savings - they are both making the same because their pay is capped at around $14-15,000 a month.

And if you are talking 2- to 1-star billet...you are only talking $1-2K a month.

I agree we need to cut some of the big wigs out because there are far too many, but not sure this is much of anything for real.

Its not even about their pay. Look at the funds that go into the perks for being a General. That is where the real savings are going to come from.

As far as experience, the same people are going to fill the jobs with the same experience, the only change is they will not get that extra star. Nothing will change there.

Brewhound
04-05-2011, 03:42 PM
The grade creep in the AF has become out of control in the last 10 years. I strongly agree...the AF should eliminate 100 of their generals and 100 of their SES's. They should reduce all Wing CC's from 1-star to colonel, like that crummy little AF base in Nebraska. The AF should reduce their vice/deputy CoS to a 3-star position. Also, the AF should reduce all lettered commands (AMC, ACC, etc) vice-CC's to 3-star. All numbered AF's (8th, 12th, etc) should have their vice-CC's reduced to 1-star. All Wing vice/deputy CC's should be reduced to light colonel (O-5). All Group CC's and their deputies should be Lt. Colonels and Majors. AF squadron CC's should be reduced to Majors. There are too many AF flag officers (active and civilian) in the joint military commands (36 in that little, good for nothing joint military command in Nebraska) overseeing each other. Then they retire, collect their 6-figure pensions, go to work for a defense contractor, collect another 6-figure income...and still oversee each other. The grade creep has got to end.

You know I hate to agree with him, but he is right. I remember reading somewhere about six months ago that we have more GO`s just n the AF than we did for all of the services at the height of WWII. I think they need to cut allot more of the O` positions from GO down to LT. Hell have 7 LRO`s in my squadron right now and for the life of me can`t tell you any purpose that they serve. Other than PTL`s

Shrike
04-05-2011, 04:34 PM
You know I hate to agree with him, but he is right. I remember reading somewhere about six months ago that we have more GO`s just n the AF than we did for all of the services at the height of WWII. I think they need to cut allot more of the O` positions from GO down to LT. Hell have 7 LRO`s in my squadron right now and for the life of me can`t tell you any purpose that they serve. Other than PTL`s

Yeah, it doesn't make much sense to me that, for one example, we have COCOMs commanded by four-star generals, and the subordinate service component commanders are also often four-stars.

Bravo5892
04-05-2011, 05:21 PM
We need to cut officers pay. It's not like they are doing work compared to the enlisted force. Ask your superintendent who the commander asks for advice.

I bet you its not from the Lieutenant or Captain.

Shrike
04-05-2011, 07:09 PM
We need to cut officers pay. It's not like they are doing work compared to the enlisted force. Ask your superintendent who the commander asks for advice.

I bet you its not from the Lieutenant or Captain.

It's so cute when the kids get their widdle fingers on the computer!

Redneck Chick
04-05-2011, 09:41 PM
We need to cut officers pay. It's not like they are doing work compared to the enlisted force. Ask your superintendent who the commander asks for advice.

I bet you its not from the Lieutenant or Captain.


But dumbA$$...then how would you grow that commander if you didn't have Lts or Capts???

RobotChicken
06-06-2013, 06:51 AM
By now they are all retired and the new batch of gremlins are in charge!

loggie94
06-06-2013, 09:06 AM
Keep in mind...cutting the GO billet isn't just about the GO pay...or the specific GO bonus prizes mentioned above. You cut/downgrade the GO slot, and the staff gets cut down in size as well -- and that is where the savings comes from. There's plenty of room to thin out some MAJCOMs and NAFs.

ChiefB
06-06-2013, 12:25 PM
I guess applying a hard percentage ceiling to the GO corps such as a variation of the percentage ceiling restriction (set by congress) on the service enlisted super-grades would be too difficult to construct?:yawn2:

It would eliminate the constant wringing of hands and gnashing of teeth each time we have a force manpower shift in any direction. The positions would just appear and.... disappear whenever force levels increase or are drawn down.

GO leader totals should reflect automatically, forces led, not mahogany lined offices available.

Absinthe Anecdote
06-06-2013, 12:35 PM
I guess applying a hard percentage ceiling to the GO corps such as a variation of the percentage ceiling restriction (set by congress) on the service enlisted super-grades would be too difficult to construct?:yawn2:

It would eliminate the constant wringing of hands and gnashing of teeth each time we have a force manpower shift in any direction. The positions would just appear and.... disappear whenever force levels increase or are drawn down.

GO leader totals should reflect automatically, forces led, not mahogany lined offices available.

I remember one of my old supervisors showing me the AFI that designated the types of wood for each general officer’s furniture and office trim.

Cherry wood for BGs and then a different type of exotic wood for each star after that, I don’t have time to look it up right now but there is a good cost cutting measure right there.

imported_chipotleboy
06-06-2013, 01:06 PM
These restrictions on GO billets sound all nice and wonderful (and I agree), but then you get some Congresscritter who blames a problem in a particular area on the fact that there isn't a GO in charge of it, then that results in creation of a new GO billet.

E.g., the Commandant at AFIT used to be an O-6. Then the Ohio delegation worked with the SECAF to upgrade to a 2-star billet. When the AF had to downsize GO billets, instead of regressing to an O-6, they renamed the "Commandant" to "Chancellor", made it an SES job and hired a retired 2-star.

My bet is we will get a GO position established in each service to address sexual assault issues.

Absinthe Anecdote
06-06-2013, 01:25 PM
@ Chilpotleboy

I love the General Babbitt quote! It sound like something Yogi Berra would say.

imported_chipotleboy
06-06-2013, 02:45 PM
@ Chilpotleboy

I love the General Babbitt quote! It sound like something Yogi Berra would say.

I was dumbfounded when I first read the quote in the McClellan AFB newspaper. I still keep it, just in case I need to prove he really said it.

GoatDriver57
06-06-2013, 10:12 PM
Redneck Chick, thats a great start, with eight posts and name-calling ones on the forum right out of the chute. You'll rate high with some here.

jody
06-07-2013, 12:20 AM
Thanks for your opinion.

RobotChicken
06-07-2013, 01:20 AM
Not bad for a two year old post!! :owned2:

Pullinteeth
06-07-2013, 07:42 PM
I just saw a Senior Leader Announcement that a two-star is being put in charge of the AF Sexual Assault Prevention Office.

Prolly cause their Col got his @$$ beat...they figure someone with stars has enough $$ to keep that kind of shyte quiet...

Pullinteeth
06-07-2013, 07:43 PM
I guess applying a hard percentage ceiling to the GO corps such as a variation of the percentage ceiling restriction (set by congress) on the service enlisted super-grades would be too difficult to construct?:yawn2:

Wouldn't help. Those percentages are for AD only so the GOs could just go to the Guard or Reserve on AGR status and the problem would remain....

imported_chipotleboy
06-07-2013, 07:47 PM
My bet is we will get a GO position established in each service to address sexual assault issues.

I just saw a Senior Leader Announcement that a two-star is being put in charge of the AF Sexual Assault Prevention Office.

Pullinteeth
06-17-2013, 05:00 PM
I just saw a Senior Leader Announcement that a two-star is being put in charge of the AF Sexual Assault Prevention Office.

Yep...way to reduce the # of GOs....turn an O-5 slot into an O-8 slot...

http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123351943

Can't wait until they turn the CMSAF slot into an O-7 slot....