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ConfusedAirman
01-13-2011, 12:18 PM
From Armed Forces Journal

http://www.armedforcesjournal.com/2010/12/5302816


Officer accountability

TO AIR FORCE SECRETARY MICHAEL DONLEY AND CHIEF OF STAFF GEN. NORTON SCHWARTZ for putting action behind their word when they pledged early in their tenures to hold accountable those who fail in their duties.
Fourteen Air Force generals have been written up in two years — five in December alone for mishandling $87 million in funds for permanent-change-of-station moves. All but one received letters of admonishment from Donley and Schwartz. The other received a more serious letter of reprimand. Their screw-ups? Everything from shipping nuclear components to Taiwan to having an extramarital affair. Donley even made Air Force history by disciplining a former chief of staff, issuing a letter of admonishment to retired Gen. T. Michael Moseley for accepting gifts from a friend whose company later won a $50 million contract from the Thunderbirds.
The Air Force has never before disciplined its top leadership like this. No one likes to see senior officers punished. But the fact that they do face serious — and public — repercussions is essential in an organization that routinely (and still more harshly than is perhaps fair) metes out discipline to enlisted airmen and junior officers. Making generals publicly accountable when they break rules is important for the credibility of the entire institution.

Kirtland_Red_Storm
01-13-2011, 12:31 PM
Officer accountability

TO AIR FORCE SECRETARY MICHAEL DONLEY AND CHIEF OF STAFF GEN. NORTON SCHWARTZ for putting action behind their word when they pledged early in their tenures to hold accountable those who fail in their duties.

my response:

LMAO

Kirtland_Red_Storm
01-13-2011, 12:39 PM
I'm still trying to figure out what actual "UCMJ" action was taken that holds these Generals accountable.

Were they fined? Reduced in grade? No, issued a piece of paper that proper saw daylight long enough to find the closest trash can or shredder.

Or how about the two generals that sit at HQ AFMC that were promoted to higher responsibility jobs?

Or how about Jill Metzger and the General North affair?

Yeah, I see the balance of justice here don't you......

BRUWIN
01-13-2011, 12:53 PM
I gotta admit...if I spent my time worrying about what officers were doing I wouldn't have stayed in. They really aren't my concern but the system is flawed.

FLAPS
01-13-2011, 01:00 PM
I'm still trying to figure out what actual "UCMJ" action was taken that holds these Generals accountable.

Were they fined? Reduced in grade? No, issued a piece of paper that proper saw daylight long enough to find the closest trash can or shredder.

Or how about the two generals that sit at HQ AFMC that were promoted to higher responsibility jobs?

Or how about Jill Metzger and the General North affair?

Yeah, I see the balance of justice here don't you......

Following the Minot fiasco, Sq, Group, and Wg/CCs were fired from their jobs, which for an officer means the end of the line...career is over. As for the Gen officers, the AF/IL (Lt Gen) was forced to retire as a Maj Gen, and the AFMC/A4(Brig Gen Bruno) retired. Not sure why Maj Gen Close got to advance in position from her Ogden ALC/CC job though...

Although accountability doesn't always seem equitable, there are several examples of officers who were held accountable for their actions....some of which don't really warrant a fine, loss of rank, etc.

Thunderhorse19
01-13-2011, 02:53 PM
Admonishing 14 AF generals is only the tip of the corrupt iceberg in the AF top brass. Donley and Schwartz forgot to go after Goslin, North, McKenzie, Shelton, Koziol, Eidsaune, George, JJ Jones, Chilton, Sams, SES Callicut, SES Carpenter, SES Furlong, Kehler, Hinson, Shanahan, Preston and about 100 other corrupt AF generals.

ssbeckdv
01-13-2011, 02:57 PM
In the Navy, the decline of discpline in the surface fleets started when ADM Zumwalt started pumping out his weekly Z-grams, giving the junior sailors more rights and privileges. Then when s**t hit the fan he couldn't understand why his COs couldn't take better control.

Kirtland_Red_Storm
01-13-2011, 03:28 PM
When you hand a Letter of Admonishment to a retired General, he'll smile and just walk away. You have to remember that the Senate has to approve their retirement at the rank they currently hold. Nothing permanent about it, that's why after the fact with just a letter is meaningless.

Close is like Metzger. Both have a keys to the skeleton closet that keeps certain big boys in line.

There was a petite Wolfpack Maintenance Officer that did a favor for a Wing CO at a party. She dressed up in a string bikini and popped out of a travel pod. She wrote her ticket till she retired as a Colonel.

SENDBILLMONEY
01-13-2011, 05:06 PM
You have to remember that the Senate has to approve their retirement at the rank they currently hold.

I remember when it used to be that way for O-10 and O-9 retirements (Presidential nomination and Senate confirmation for retirement in either of those grades, otherwise they retired at their highest permanent grade ... usually O-8). Doesn't work that way any more. Makes it a tiny bit less political.

ROAD
01-13-2011, 05:16 PM
There was a petite Wolfpack Maintenance Officer that did a favor for a Wing CO at a party. She dressed up in a string bikini and popped out of a travel pod. She wrote her ticket till she retired as a Colonel.

Prove it with photos or it didn't happen :fish2

garhkal
01-14-2011, 07:03 AM
Following the Minot fiasco, Sq, Group, and Wg/CCs were fired from their jobs, which for an officer means the end of the line.
Although accountability doesn't always seem equitable, there are several examples of officers who were held accountable for their actions....some of which don't really warrant a fine, loss of rank, etc.

In no way do i consider someone being fired from their job, but still keeping their rank, paygrade/pay etc equitable when for us E6 and below, we lose it.. NOR the fact they are still in and usually get to retire out, where again for us E6 and below it is booted out.

FLAPS
01-14-2011, 08:10 AM
In no way do i consider someone being fired from their job, but still keeping their rank, paygrade/pay etc equitable when for us E6 and below, we lose it.. NOR the fact they are still in and usually get to retire out, where again for us E6 and below it is booted out.

Let's see....a Wg/CC loses his job (and career) for something that happens several layers of supervision below him, and that he probably didn't even know about. What happens to a MSgt section chief if the AB (several layers of supervision below him) violates tech data and damages an airplane? The answer is nothing.

SinisterK9
01-14-2011, 08:55 AM
Let's see....a Wg/CC loses his job (and career) for something that happens several layers of supervision below him, and that he probably didn't even know about. What happens to a MSgt section chief if the AB (several layers of supervision below him) violates tech data and damages an airplane? The answer is nothing.

You are right, nothing happens to enlisted. For example, the Security Forces Flight Chief they Court Martialed for that Airman's suicide not too long ago.

Kirtland_Red_Storm
01-14-2011, 11:02 AM
Prove it with photos or it didn't happen :fish2

OH! It happen, I personally don't have photo's and I'm not sure if any where taken. This happen in 85 or 86 just prior to the AGS CC getting relieved for having an affair with OR clerk. He was hanging around the 432nd AGS office while investigation was on-going. The Wolfpack was pretty wild during that time period and things were soon to be settled down after a few complaints.

Tak
05-08-2013, 07:11 PM
From Armed Forces Journal

http://www.armedforcesjournal.com/2010/12/5302816


Officer accountability

TO AIR FORCE SECRETARY MICHAEL DONLEY AND CHIEF OF STAFF GEN. NORTON SCHWARTZ for putting action behind their word when they pledged early in their tenures to hold accountable those who fail in their duties.
Fourteen Air Force generals have been written up in two years — five in December alone for mishandling $87 million in funds for permanent-change-of-station moves. All but one received letters of admonishment from Donley and Schwartz. The other received a more serious letter of reprimand. Their screw-ups? Everything from shipping nuclear components to Taiwan to having an extramarital affair. Donley even made Air Force history by disciplining a former chief of staff, issuing a letter of admonishment to retired Gen. T. Michael Moseley for accepting gifts from a friend whose company later won a $50 million contract from the Thunderbirds.
The Air Force has never before disciplined its top leadership like this. No one likes to see senior officers punished. But the fact that they do face serious — and public — repercussions is essential in an organization that routinely (and still more harshly than is perhaps fair) metes out discipline to enlisted airmen and junior od lofficers. Making generals publicly accountable when they break rules is important for the credibility of the entire institution.

good link...

ConfusedAirman
05-08-2013, 07:42 PM
Tak,

Weren't you channeling Joe Bonham for awhile? Now it seems you are channeling RFD with forum thread resurrection.

meatbringer
05-08-2013, 07:43 PM
Tak,

Weren't you channeling Joe Bonham for awhile? Now it seems you are channeling RFD with forum thread resurrection.

For him to channel RFD he would have to mention meeting or speaking with a D list celebrity, and then mention some book that nobody cares about.

imported_SergeantJack
05-08-2013, 09:13 PM
No one likes to see senior officers punished.

http://themodernjedi.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/false.jpg

RobotChicken
05-09-2013, 04:37 AM
In the Navy, the decline of discpline in the surface fleets started when ADM Zumwalt started pumping out his weekly Z-grams, giving the junior sailors more rights and privileges. Then when s**t hit the fan he couldn't understand why his COs couldn't take better control.
:hat About 5 years before that,but 'generally' attributed to him, Capt Z. lived across the street from us in the early '60's, sis went to Cox HS with his son.