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takthekak
12-12-2010, 02:49 PM
AFPC is about a week late and 100 dollars short on this one.
This train left the station a few years ago. What a freaking joke.
What happened was all the bases sent up recommenedations, which
were filtered out as they went to the top, so nothing improved,
now AFPC wants to help save the day. Get real; AFPC is not reviving sh*t!

Teams head to 12 bases to revive nuke mission

By Michelle Tan - Staff writer
Posted : Sunday Dec 12, 2010 8:50:01 EST

If you work with nukes, start putting together your personnel-related questions. The Air Force Personnel Center is sending teams to 12 Air Force bases to talk to airmen assigned to the nuclear enterprise and related career fields to discuss issues such as force development, assignments, education and training.

The first stop was Barksdale Air Force Base, La., on Nov. 30. Each visit includes an office call with commanders, a senior leader roundtable, a basewide brief, and separate officer and enlisted sessions, said Col. David Slade, director of assignments for AFPC.

“We want it to be a two-way conversation,” Slade said. “We want to get feedback from the field to make sure we’re addressing their concerns. We’re also trying to make sure we clear the air and make sure everyone has the proper facts on how we’re managing the force and the things we’re doing to manage that force.”

Destinations
Experts from the Air Force Personnel Center will visit 12 Air Force bases through January to meet with airmen assigned to nuclear and related career fields. Visits left on the schedule include:

Read the rest of the story here ... (http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2010/12/air-force-teams-visit-bases-to-revive-nuclear-mission-121210w/)

Kirtland_Red_Storm
12-12-2010, 03:06 PM
“We can tell you by name and Social Security number every airman that’s out there in the nuke enterprise,” he said. “But sometimes that’s not the whole picture, so we need the nuke enterprise to tell us what they’re not getting, how can we help you better?”

I would interpret this as "Hello, guess what? You're going to the controlled assignment column!" When SAC was disbanded and things were transfer to ACC, I got the impression the transfer involved a lot of "burn bag" action. So SAC personnel programs were dumped and any left overs (including the training) were just put through the motions for show. Most got the impression was Cold War over, nuclear deterrence was back burner. No Looking Glass, no Bomber or Tanker alerts, and missiles were being decommissioned.

IMHO

takthekak
12-12-2010, 03:30 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_United_States_Air_Force_nuclear_weapons_incid ent
http://www.defense.gov/pubs/pdfs/PhaseIIReportFinal.pdf
http://www.whiteman.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123117655

Kirtland_Red_Storm
12-12-2010, 03:55 PM
Here's part of the joke

Maj. Gen. Kathleen D. Close received a letter of admonishment for not exercising effective command oversight of depot maintenance, engineering activities and materiel control of sensitive components, for not recognizing systemic weaknesses in supply chain management of sensitive components, and for not taking adequate action to correct previously identified materiel control and maintenance deficiencies in her current position as Commander of the Ogden Air Logistics Center. The Acting Secretary and the Chief of Staff have determined that General Close is needed to restore Air Force stewardship of the ICBM force, and she will remain in command to continue corrective actions she has initiated.
(another AF female officer with a bad boy blackmail book)

Screw up and get a promotion assignment to HQ AFMC. Does this sound familiar? Maj. Gen. David W. Eidsaune! Looks like HQ AFMC is the bad boy holding center for AF General Officers.

Maj. Gen. Kathleen D. Close is Director, Logistics and Sustainment, Headquarters Air Force Materiel Command, Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, Ohio. She is responsible for all depot maintenance, supply management and sustainment transformation activities within the command. She develops and directs policy and procedures for major overhaul, repair, and modification of weapon systems and spare parts. The depot maintenance activity is valued in excess of $6.5 billion in annual revenue and employs more than 35,000 people at the command's three Air Logistics Centers. She establishes guidance relating to the Air Force retail and wholesale supply chain management of spare parts, valued at more than $5.8 billion. In addition, she directs policy and procedures for AFMC aircraft maintenance, munitions, supply, logistics plans, transportation, packaging, and fielding and sustaining AFMC logistics data systems. The Centralized Asset Management Office manages all active-duty weapon system sustainment requirements to support more than 1.3 million flying hours each year, which is the single largest Air Force operations and maintenance account at $14.1 billion managed from one location. As the staff lead for logistics and lifecycle sustainment issues, General Close plans and coordinates product support and acquisition logistics for all fielded and emerging Air Force weapon systems.

VFFSSGT
12-12-2010, 03:56 PM
Destinations
Experts from the Air Force Personnel Center will visit 12 Air Force bases through January to meet with airmen assigned to nuclear and related career fields. Visits left on the schedule include:

• Barksdale Air Force Base, La., on Nov. 30.

• Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, Ohio, on Dec. 1.

• Offutt Air Force Base, Neb.

• Whiteman Air Force Base, Mo.

• Malmstrom Air Force Base, Mont.

• Kirtland Air Force Base, N.M.

• Vandenberg Air Force Base, Calif.

• F.E. Warren Air Force Base, Wyo.

• Minot Air Force Base, N.D.

• Aviano Air Base, Italy.

• Incirlik Air Base, Turkey.

• Spangdahlem Air Base, Germany.

Wow, I've been to 2 of these bases and you get the standard answer from everyone, "we cannot confirm or deny..."

If there were any doubt left, which I doubt there was - let's just advertise to the world were our nukes are.




The 12-base tour by AFPC is part of the Air Force’s effort to reinvigorate the nuclear enterprise, Stewart said.
Translations; AFPC was bored so they needed to justify a few TDY's.


“We can tell you by name and Social Security number every airman that’s out there in the nuke enterprise,” he said. “But sometimes that’s not the whole picture, so we need the nuke enterprise to tell us what they’re not getting, how can we help you better?” They are not getting the same thing everyone else is... Good Personnel and Financial Services. AFPC or the local MPE has lost my SGLI form multiple times and I am 2 months out from a TDY with no payment. Just 2 examples...


Stewart said he’d like to conduct such tours for all career fields, especially critical or emerging specialties such as cyber operations, remotely piloted aircraft and acquisition. An excuse to get some nice TDY's and maybe bank on some per diem. Really, what exactly is AFPC going to do to better AF career fields? Promise to not loose our paperwork anymore and actually provide decent customer service at the local MPE level? HA!


“This is, in some ways, the number one Air Force priority, to reinvigorate the nuke enterprise,” he said. “AFPC, we make all the assignments, we allocate all the training slots, we conduct the squadron commander boards and developmental teams that develop people for these jobs, so we’re intimately involved. We’ve got to get this right and we have to get it right quickly. That’s why this one’s happening right now.”This is, by no means, the number one Air Force priority. PT is.

Forsaken Wombat
12-12-2010, 06:25 PM
The 12-base tour by AFPC is part of the Air Force’s effort to reinvigorate the nuclear enterprise, Stewart said.

More like a chance to check into lodging, put on their freshest American Eagle & Hollister threads, hit up Chilis & "da club" and put that per diem to "good" use in 12 different cities/towns.

I cannot stand it when these pencil pusher/box tickers come rolling into a base I'm at. Everyone swoons over and pampers them, they walk around with an arrogance that drives me nuts, and they really don't do jack shit other than waste everyone's time. The last time I dealt with clowns like these, it was a USAFE "team" that came into town. They spent more time at the E-Club and at DeNiros in Newmarket than they did doing what they were meant to be doing!

My apologies for ranting...I'm rather biased based upon my past experiences with these sort of fools. At least when my career field goes TDY (whether training or real world mission), we come back with dirty hands, aching backs, tired boots....and a sense of true accomplishment. Eh...best I shut up now before I melt the forum with my mindless raving...

takthekak
12-12-2010, 07:40 PM
http://armed-services.senate.gov/Transcripts/2008/02%20February/A%20Full%20Committee/08-06%20-%202-12-08.pdf
http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/usa/doctrine/usaf/Minot_DSB-0208.pdf
http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2008_hr/afnuke.pdf
http://www.airforce-magazine.com/Features/organization/Pages/box021508nuclear.aspx
http://www.navytimes.com/news/2008/02/airforce_dull_sword_080212w/
http://www.militarytimes.com/news/2010/09/air-force-chilton-says-nuke-arsenal-needs-attention-092010w/
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/news/2008/09/mil-080912-dod01.htm
http://www.nuclearfiles.org/menu/key-issues/nuclear-weapons/issues/policy/us-nuclear-policy/weapons/2008-12-NWS_Inspections%5B1%5D.pdf
http://www.america.gov/st/texttrans-english/2009/January/20090109154015eaifas0.8806269.html&distid=ucs

Dang, I should get paid for my research abilities
http://www.doeal.gov/LLNLCompetition/ReportsAndComments/chilesrpt.pdf
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/5975910/FY-1999-Report

this was hard to find
http://www.airforce-magazine.com/SiteCollectionDocuments/Reports/2008/June/Day24/BRR-2008.pdf

Forsaken Wombat
12-12-2010, 08:52 PM
http://armed-services.senate.gov/Transcripts/2008/02%20February/A%20Full%20Committee/08-06%20-%202-12-08.pdf
http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/usa/doctrine/usaf/Minot_DSB-0208.pdf
http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2008_hr/afnuke.pdf
http://www.airforce-magazine.com/Features/organization/Pages/box021508nuclear.aspx
http://www.navytimes.com/news/2008/02/airforce_dull_sword_080212w/
http://www.militarytimes.com/news/2010/09/air-force-chilton-says-nuke-arsenal-needs-attention-092010w/
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/news/2008/09/mil-080912-dod01.htm
http://www.nuclearfiles.org/menu/key-issues/nuclear-weapons/issues/policy/us-nuclear-policy/weapons/2008-12-NWS_Inspections%5B1%5D.pdf
http://www.america.gov/st/texttrans-english/2009/January/20090109154015eaifas0.8806269.html&distid=ucs

Dang, I should get paid for my research abilities
http://www.doeal.gov/LLNLCompetition/ReportsAndComments/chilesrpt.pdf
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/5975910/FY-1999-Report

Or congratulated on your ability to use Google.

takthekak
12-12-2010, 09:28 PM
http://www.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-081024-073.pdf

VFFSSGT
12-12-2010, 09:53 PM
http://www.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-081024-073.pdf

141page report to the boss to explain how they will get people to do their job? Are you kidding me?

Here is a few ideas...
-Stop cutting the force and demanding that all us be our own career advisors, personnelist, finance experts, etc.
-take the emphasis off PTand put it own technical competence
-bring back some manning and pay for it with the wasteful end of year spending
-simplify and then stop changing the regulations every week so we can actually know exactly what we should be doing
-do away with booster clubs, top 3, etc -these things and events routinely take priority over the mission
-Stop outsourcing the military
-EPR's, awards, and decs....need I say more?

Bottom line...our problem is a lack of leadership and years of bad decisions, top-down, causing systematic failures across the board.

takthekak
12-12-2010, 09:56 PM
http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2009/03/airforce_minot_morale_033009/

"Vann and 1st Lt. Adrian Zollinger, also a missile officer, suggest incentives such as
extra education funding, re-enlistment bonuses and deployment credit for
assignments to nuclear bases would help boost retention."

NOTE: presently NOTHING mentioned above years ago or any other incentive has been achieved.

takthekak
12-12-2010, 10:00 PM
141page report to the boss to explain how they will get people to do their job? Are you kidding me?

Here is a few ideas...
-Stop cutting the force and demanding that all us be our own career advisors, personnelist, finance experts, etc.
-take the emphasis off PTand put it own technical competence
-bring back some manning and pay for it with the wasteful end of year spending
-simplify and then stop changing the regulations every week so we can actually know exactly what we should be doing
-do away with booster clubs, top 3, etc -these things and events routinely take priority over the mission
-Stop outsourcing the military
-EPR's, awards, and decs....need I say more?

Bottom line...our problem is a lack of leadership and years of bad decisions, top-down, causing systematic failures across the board.

After reading all the reports, it seems leaders were speaking up, but those at the top did not want to tell their boss something was wrong on their watch.
I read some pretty candid comments from all levels and commands to no avail.
It tool a major screwup to achieve anything, then all of a sudden everyone knew things were screwed up after the cold war. All the leaders have of course all retired by now and make $200K as a consultant somewhere. Accountability is no friend of ours in this Air Force.

smarg
12-12-2010, 10:09 PM
The nuke disasters were all the final result of McPeak and the fighter pilot revolution that occurred during his tenure.

For years fighter pilot generals seethed over the domination by SAC. So guess what the megalo-maniacal McPeak did when he got in? Put ALL Air Force weapon systems under one command, led by fighter pilots. And, to slap SAC in the face, he put the command's HQ at Langley, the old TAC HQ. Then he methodically wiped the Air Force clean of all SAC-legacy stuff, including historical squadron/group/wing numbering. Simply genius.

Most people despise him, but I gotta give him props for instigating and successfully carrying out the most audacious of all revenge schemes in the history of the Air Force.

He's the man. Evil maybe, but he made sure SAC would be truly wiped from the face of the Earth.

Sunshine52
12-13-2010, 06:08 AM
Here's part of the joke

Maj. Gen. Kathleen D. Close received a letter of admonishment for not exercising effective command oversight of depot maintenance, engineering activities and materiel control of sensitive components, for not recognizing systemic weaknesses in supply chain management of sensitive components, and for not taking adequate action to correct previously identified materiel control and maintenance deficiencies in her current position as Commander of the Ogden Air Logistics Center. The Acting Secretary and the Chief of Staff have determined that General Close is needed to restore Air Force stewardship of the ICBM force, and she will remain in command to continue corrective actions she has initiated.
(another AF female officer with a bad boy blackmail book)

Screw up and get a promotion assignment to HQ AFMC. Does this sound familiar? Maj. Gen. David W. Eidsaune! Looks like HQ AFMC is the bad boy holding center for AF General Officers.

Maj. Gen. Kathleen D. Close is Director, Logistics and Sustainment, Headquarters Air Force Materiel Command, Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, Ohio. She is responsible for all depot maintenance, supply management and sustainment transformation activities within the command. She develops and directs policy and procedures for major overhaul, repair, and modification of weapon systems and spare parts. The depot maintenance activity is valued in excess of $6.5 billion in annual revenue and employs more than 35,000 people at the command's three Air Logistics Centers. She establishes guidance relating to the Air Force retail and wholesale supply chain management of spare parts, valued at more than $5.8 billion. In addition, she directs policy and procedures for AFMC aircraft maintenance, munitions, supply, logistics plans, transportation, packaging, and fielding and sustaining AFMC logistics data systems. The Centralized Asset Management Office manages all active-duty weapon system sustainment requirements to support more than 1.3 million flying hours each year, which is the single largest Air Force operations and maintenance account at $14.1 billion managed from one location. As the staff lead for logistics and lifecycle sustainment issues, General Close plans and coordinates product support and acquisition logistics for all fielded and emerging Air Force weapon systems.

And in another example of "F-up, Move-up", the pilot who actually flew the nukes across the US was picked up for promotion 2 BTZ. I don't know how AFPC and the AF can claim to be "reviving the nuclear enterpise" when they designate the clowns actually responsible for this disaster as future senior leaders.

BISSBOSS
12-13-2010, 07:03 AM
And in another example of "F-up, Move-up", the pilot who actually flew the nukes across the US was picked up for promotion 2 BTZ. I don't know how AFPC and the AF can claim to be "reviving the nuclear enterpise" when they designate the clowns actually responsible for this disaster as future senior leaders.


Didn't you guys get the memo? As of July 1 or thereabout, we are no longer revitalizing the Nuclear Enterprise... We are "Continuing to strengthen" it! AF Senior Leadership has declared victory without ever having defined it in the first place! Must be pretty easy to score when you get to choose where the goalposts are placed.

The conferences being held around the AF are focusing on Wep and SFS flavored Airmen. While those are the largest community and (arguably) the closest to the mission, there are numerous other AFSCs that suffer the same lack of training and general care and feeding in the nuclear realm. Entire functional communities around the Air Force are either blissfully unaware of their role in the Nuclear Surety mission or are allowed to neglect their responsibilities because Nuke Surety is a minority player or not seen as sexy enough to compete with other missions.

Too bad - Swing and a miss... Again.

-BB- :doh

CSARmedic
12-13-2010, 08:56 AM
Being one of the few left who has been SACimcised, I KNEW that eliminating SAC but keeping Nukes would not end well. SAC did what it did so well because it relied on unrelentingly high standards and not grandstanding and hand-holding to secure nukes. AFPC can take their working vacations and waste more money but in the end it was training and compliance with well-written regulations that prevented Dull Swords and Bent Spears from occurring in the past.

@smart. I agree with everything you said about McPeak. He was one of the worst things to happen to the AF in years.

BISSBOSS
12-13-2010, 10:18 AM
Being one of the few left who has been SACimcised, I KNEW that eliminating SAC but keeping Nukes would not end well. SAC did what it did so well because it relied on unrelentingly high standards and not grandstanding and hand-holding to secure nukes. AFPC can take their working vacations and waste more money but in the end it was training and compliance with well-written regulations that prevented Dull Swords and Bent Spears from occurring in the past.

@smart. I agree with everything you said about McPeak. He was one of the worst things to happen to the AF in years.



I too remember SAC! It was the MAJCOM looked at as being elite. Their standards were; as you said... unrelenting. I fear that in today's Air Force the emphasis is far more on "Good Enough" and "Just in Time" than need be. There is no will to revisit the standards set and maintained by SAC. Training was the key then. Training and (dare I( mention it) accountability.

Now - Mind you, SAC (and the AF on the whole) had many, many, many more people to utilize than we have today. That is one of the largest hurdles facing this problem. SAC could afford to train in a slow, deliberate repetitious manner. Airmen could develop that procedural muscle memory that helped to discourage corner cutting and mistakes. We are not that way now. The Air Force has not operated under that training paradigm for a long time...

Oh well... My Dad always said - "You get what you pay for."

-BB-

Enigmatic Airman
12-13-2010, 08:45 PM
I read about this in the times and thought of all the wasted money and time going all these places...just to hear (If they really will hear) waht people HAVE BEEN SAYING for years now.

God I hope I never go to any of those places...

Kirtland_Red_Storm
12-13-2010, 09:20 PM
SAC...as a young boy I watched my father (what little I saw of him) join the command in its infancy until he was sent to Vietnam. If we kids wanted to find dad all we had to do was trace the the red phone telephone cord. I remember the people, lots of them, APs, mechanics, cooks, medics, and just seem like a lot of folks.

The aircraft were fun to watch....C-119's, KC-97's, B-36, B-47, (takeoff with JATO was fantastic)

SAC - Peace is our Profession.

There was no screwing around, fail an inspection, you're gone! Miss a procedure, decertified.

Want to know how you did on the ORI, look for the Mayflower Moving Vans.

Tak
07-11-2012, 02:28 AM
Mr dorr check out the pages and links on this thread.
wilk tell you everything on nuclear enterprise.

Airborne
07-11-2012, 02:52 AM
I think those that are in the nuclear community should stay there and be incentivized with pay, and whatever else bennies we can come up with. A cop working CATM is his current base is expected to PCS to Minot and be back on the flight rocking the nuclear enterprise? A weapons guy at Hurlburt working on gunships is supposed to PCS to Barksdale and be a nuclear enterprise genius? Our nuclear enterprise should resemble the Navy's submarine program. Nuclear enterprise.

Tak
07-11-2012, 03:07 AM
I think those that are in the nuclear community should stay there and be incentivized with pay, and whatever else bennies we can come up with. A cop working CATM is his current base is expected to PCS to Minot and be back on the flight rocking the nuclear enterprise? A weapons guy at Hurlburt working on gunships is supposed to PCS to Barksdale and be a nuclear enterprise genius? Our nuclear enterprise should resemble the Navy's submarine program. Nuclear enterprise.

Incentives talked about adding: tons.
Incentives actually added: 0.

Tak
05-08-2013, 01:59 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_United_States_Air_Force_nuclear_weapons_incid ent
http://www.defense.gov/pubs/pdfs/PhaseIIReportFinal.pdf
http://www.whiteman.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123117655

Good link to report

Tak
05-08-2013, 01:59 PM
http://www.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-081024-073.pdf

Another good one

Tak
05-08-2013, 02:00 PM
http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2009/03/airforce_minot_morale_033009/

"Vann and 1st Lt. Adrian Zollinger, also a missile officer, suggest incentives such as
extra education funding, re-enlistment bonuses and deployment credit for
assignments to nuclear bases would help boost retention."

NOTE: presently NOTHING mentioned above years ago or any other incentive has been achieved.

Good........

Tak
05-08-2013, 02:04 PM
http://armed-services.senate.gov/Transcripts/2008/02%20February/A%20Full%20Committee/08-06%20-%202-12-08.pdf
http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/usa/doctrine/usaf/Minot_DSB-0208.pdf
http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2008_hr/afnuke.pdf
http://www.airforce-magazine.com/Features/organization/Pages/box021508nuclear.aspx
http://www.navytimes.com/news/2008/02/airforce_dull_sword_080212w/
http://www.militarytimes.com/news/2010/09/air-force-chilton-says-nuke-arsenal-needs-attention-092010w/
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/news/2008/09/mil-080912-dod01.htm
http://www.nuclearfiles.org/menu/key-issues/nuclear-weapons/issues/policy/us-nuclear-policy/weapons/2008-12-NWS_Inspections%5B1%5D.pdf
http://www.america.gov/st/texttrans-english/2009/January/20090109154015eaifas0.8806269.html&distid=ucs

Dang, I should get paid for my research abilities
http://www.doeal.gov/LLNLCompetition/ReportsAndComments/chilesrpt.pdf
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/5975910/FY-1999-Report

this was hard to find
http://www.airforce-magazine.com/SiteCollectionDocuments/Reports/2008/June/Day24/BRR-2008.pdf

Good links...