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View Full Version : Seriosly, why arent beards allowed..and dont give me that gasmask BS



ROAD
12-29-2009, 05:49 AM
If that army can pull this off..then maybe..just maybe I should be a "sikh" too


US Army Capt. Kamaljeet Singh Kalsi, a Sikh, was granted the right to wear his beard and turban in uniform last month, an accommodation that will weaken military culture, "fueling doubts about the judgment of leadership and resentment of special treatment for religious minorities."

SailorDave
12-29-2009, 05:55 AM
I'll tell you why I personally think they went away....too many guys were growing crappy looking beards or not keeping them kept well and the CNO got tired of looking at it Navy wide. Easiest way to solve it ? Forbid it altogether.

Yes, the few screwups f'd it up for the rest of us.

Michaep
12-29-2009, 07:00 AM
AFI 36-2903 Dress and Appearance Standards....youre in the MILITARY...DEAL with it

"boo hoo...why cant I wear my AC/DC t-shirt underneath my uniforms....:::tear:::"

You wanna wear converse sneakers too?

Anyway...Its about maintaining a professional image.

Believe it or not, other countries uniforms and appearance make them look bad to a lot of Americans while stateside

Full on beards, Earrings, Pants not bloused, boots with no shine and scuffs everywhere, sleeves rolled up....etc.....

Its the difference between Walmart employees wearing nasty clothes with a walmart vest

versus

Target employees wearing khaki and red uniforms all standardized in appearance with no logo's

And yes, it makes a difference, I know people who only shop at Target because their people look a ton more PROFESSIONAL than billy bob wearing his ripped t shirt and vest does

CplH5811
12-29-2009, 07:05 AM
Now that you mention it.......I do want to wear converse shoes with my uniform!!!!!!

:D

imported_BRAVO10000
12-29-2009, 08:08 AM
I'll tell you why I personally think they went away....too many guys were growing crappy looking beards or not keeping them kept well and the CNO got tired of looking at it Navy wide. Easiest way to solve it ? Forbid it altogether.

Yes, the few screwups f'd it up for the rest of us.

I remember when that happened, Sailor. For ther longest time, the Navy could wear beards at sea. It was the late 80s or early 90s when they changed that.

I don't think the AF ever allowed them.

imported_AFKILO7
12-29-2009, 08:52 AM
AFI 36-2903 Dress and Appearance Standards....youre in the MILITARY...DEAL with it

"boo hoo...why cant I wear my AC/DC t-shirt underneath my uniforms....:::tear:::"

You wanna wear converse sneakers too?

Anyway...Its about maintaining a professional image.

Believe it or not, other countries uniforms and appearance make them look bad to a lot of Americans while stateside

Full on beards, Earrings, Pants not bloused, boots with no shine and scuffs everywhere, sleeves rolled up....etc.....

Its the difference between Walmart employees wearing nasty clothes with a walmart vest

versus

Target employees wearing khaki and red uniforms all standardized in appearance with no logo's

And yes, it makes a difference, I know people who only shop at Target because their people look a ton more PROFESSIONAL than billy bob wearing his ripped t shirt and vest does

You must be bipolar, or a troll, or both. Either way you flip flop back and forth more than a cornered politician. I understand the concept behind uniform rules and regulations. However, I am more than happy, as a matter of fact I am grateful that there are organizations that allow members of their units to grow beards. I have been so fortunate to have worked with these professionals, and I believe they have more professionalism in their large toe nails than many of us do in our bodies.

I have also worked with NATO, my second assignment was with AIRNORTH actually. Regardless some of the guys I worked with were allowed to have beards as long as they were neat. I think the mentality of beards are only for the dregs of society is an anachronism, just like take on tattoos and some of the people who whine about the two being unprofessional. If and when the AFI is changed I will follow it, just as I follow the AFI now.





Except for tucking my ABU's in my boots...NOT happening.

VFFSSGT
12-29-2009, 11:53 AM
Here is one article I found on the matter since the OP did not post one.

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZmJhMDE5NDk2NjUyMjNmNjA3NTBlZjhjMjhmOWJlMzY=

This is ridiculous that special permissions are being allowed... And also seemingly only to sects of Islam or people of similar decent. Where are the liberals and their screaming of seperation? It is funny how that concept only applies to Christians... What is so hard about following dress standards?

JCH
12-29-2009, 12:12 PM
You can grow a beard...just schedule an appointment with your doc and tell him/her that shaving irritates your skin and I'm sure they will give you a waiver.

ART
12-29-2009, 12:32 PM
If that army can pull this off..then maybe..just maybe I should be a "sikh" too


US Army Capt. Kamaljeet Singh Kalsi, a Sikh, was granted the right to wear his beard and turban in uniform last month, an accommodation that will weaken military culture, "fueling doubts about the judgment of leadership and resentment of special treatment for religious minorities."


I wonder if AAFES will start carrying these in ABU pattern for us Druids.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/84/Druids,_in_the_early_morning_glow_of_the_sun.jpg

Surely, the mightiest Air Force in the world doesn't want to be accused of discrimination, does it?

I wonder how this would look with a reflective belt.....

midway
12-29-2009, 01:31 PM
This is ridiculous that special permissions are being allowed... And also seemingly only to sects of Islam or people of similar decent. Where are the liberals and their screaming of seperation? It is funny how that concept only applies to Christians... What is so hard about following dress standards?

Not to be nit-picky, but Sikhs are not Muslims. Sikhism is a totally different religion that originated in India. However, I agree with the overall sentiment of your post.

Also, I have a personal incentive not to grow a beard. If I even thought about growing one, I'd never get any again from my wife.

imported_biddy1030
12-29-2009, 01:32 PM
AFI 36-2903 Dress and Appearance Standards....youre in the MILITARY...DEAL with it

"boo hoo...why cant I wear my AC/DC t-shirt underneath my uniforms....:::tear:::"

You wanna wear converse sneakers too?

Anyway...Its about maintaining a professional image.

Believe it or not, other countries uniforms and appearance make them look bad to a lot of Americans while stateside

Full on beards, Earrings, Pants not bloused, boots with no shine and scuffs everywhere, sleeves rolled up....etc.....

Its the difference between Walmart employees wearing nasty clothes with a walmart vest

versus

Target employees wearing khaki and red uniforms all standardized in appearance with no logo's

And yes, it makes a difference, I know people who only shop at Target because their people look a ton more PROFESSIONAL than billy bob wearing his ripped t shirt and vest does

funny considering almost all special ops wear beards and im sure they do just fine with them

imported_KnuckleDragger
12-29-2009, 01:57 PM
Its the difference between Walmart employees wearing nasty clothes with a walmart vest

versus

Target employees wearing khaki and red uniforms all standardized in appearance with no logo's

And yes, it makes a difference, I know people who only shop at Target because their people look a ton more PROFESSIONAL than billy bob wearing his ripped t shirt and vest does


Really....

You took the time to post, to compare us all to Target employees?


I think any group getting an exemption from unifrom policy is BS. Where are these whiners when we go through force reductions?

chucksnee
12-29-2009, 03:05 PM
funny considering almost all special ops wear beards and im sure they do just fine with them
They need to blend in with there surroundings....while doing there job....

They will not have a beard while in Garrison...

alaskaresident
12-29-2009, 03:24 PM
My dad was in the Navy and I remember in the 80s he always had a beard and then one day he didn't. My little brother was I think 7 at the time and thought this "man" in our house was a stranger. He didn't recognize dad without a beard. He had never seen dad without one. It took him about a day or two to finally realize this man was in fact his dad and not some stranger moving in. I'll have to ask him why they could no longer have a beard since I never cared to ask then.

ConfusedAirman
12-29-2009, 03:35 PM
Here is one article I found on the matter since the OP did not post one.

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZmJhMDE5NDk2NjUyMjNmNjA3NTBlZjhjMjhmOWJlMzY=

This is ridiculous that special permissions are being allowed... And also seemingly only to sects of Islam or people of similar decent. Where are the liberals and their screaming of seperation? It is funny how that concept only applies to Christians... What is so hard about following dress standards?


1) Your reference is not an "article" in the sense of being a "news article". It is an an opinion piece. Google the guy's name and a lot of news articles can be found.

2) Someone else already pointed out that Sikhs are not Muslims.

3) All said and done, I agree with the idea that "special permissions" for individuals are wrong. But it appears that in this case the Army should have released the guy from his service obligation even though the Army paid for his medical school. The fact that the Army caved tells me that they accept responsibility for a communication breakdown. The guy claims he was told by his recruiter that he could keep the beard and turban. Anyone attending medical school under military scholarship also attends various specialized military medical training and works in military medical facilities during training. Even though he was a civilian for all of this, you would think that at some point, the issue would have been flagged. The Army should just walk away minus many thousands of dollars for his medical schooling and take it as a lesson learned.

4) I am against any permanent "special permissions" for individuals, to include shaving waivers for individuals who just can't shave. Not so sure that I am against changing the rules so that religious exemptions can be made for entire groups of persons. I believe that anyone who have ever been associated with Sikhs know that they are extremely devout and don't use their religion as a scam. I have never met a Sikh that was not above reproach, something that I cannot say about many of the airmen I have to deal with on a daily basis. A beard or the lack of one does not make the man.

VFFSSGT
12-29-2009, 04:21 PM
1) Your reference is not an "article" in the sense of being a "news article". It is an an opinion piece. Google the guy's name and a lot of news articles can be found. Well, I did not claim it was a "news" article. I said "article" and there are multiple types of articles. :rolleyes:

Google is not a verb; it is a name of a search engine and this was one of the articles at the top when I utilized the search engine. Where else do you think I found such information?


2) Someone else already pointed out that Sikhs are not Muslims.

I did not say they were. The article I pointed to also mentioned an individual of Islamic decent. Notice how I said " or like descent" The two practices referenced descend from cultures with similar practices.


3) All said and done, I agree with the idea that "special permissions" for individuals are wrong. But it appears that in this case the Army should have released the guy from his service obligation even though the Army paid for his medical school. The fact that the Army caved tells me that they accept responsibility for a communication breakdown. The guy claims he was told by his recruiter that he could keep the beard and turban. Anyone attending medical school under military scholarship also attends various specialized military medical training and works in military medical facilities during training. Even though he was a civilian for all of this, you would think that at some point, the issue would have been flagged. The Army should just walk away minus many thousands of dollars for his medical schooling and take it as a lesson learned.

Just because a recruiter may or may not have said something, does not make it the "Army's" fault. Some recruiters say a lot of things that mislead people - the services do not condone this behavior though. Anyone that comes into the military believing they can keep a beard and turban is a moron - and this guy is a Doctor? Definitely playing the special interest and I'm a victim game.


4) I am against any permanent "special permissions" for individuals, to include shaving waivers for individuals who just can't shave. Not so sure that I am against changing the rules so that religious exemptions can be made for entire groups of persons. I believe that anyone who have ever been associated with Sikhs know that they are extremely devout and don't use their religion as a scam. I have never met a Sikh that was not above reproach, something that I cannot say about many of the airmen I have to deal with on a daily basis. A beard or the lack of one does not make the man.

If you agree, then what exactly is your point in attacking the choice of information and words I share?

Shrike
12-29-2009, 04:33 PM
Google is listed in Merriam-Webster as a transitive verb (http://m-w.com/dictionary/google).

VFFSSGT
12-29-2009, 04:39 PM
Only because it has become "accepted" because people are lazy in their speech. However, I only pointed to that to show how retarded his response was to begin with. It was pretty weak to say the article I shared was not a news article when I did not claim it was a news article. What was the point? Maybe he has an agenda against that website; the article was mostly based on facts and information either way. Just like what is the point in bringing up the word use of Google? There was no real point...

God forbid I share a link I found on a quick search to make it easier for everyone to have a few more details on the subject.

MACHINE666
12-29-2009, 04:47 PM
AFI 36-2903 Dress and Appearance Standards....youre in the MILITARY...DEAL with it

"boo hoo...why cant I wear my AC/DC t-shirt underneath my uniforms....:::tear:::"

You wanna wear converse sneakers too?

Anyway...Its about maintaining a professional image.

Believe it or not, other countries uniforms and appearance make them look bad to a lot of Americans while stateside

Full on beards, Earrings, Pants not bloused, boots with no shine and scuffs everywhere, sleeves rolled up....etc.....

Its the difference between Walmart employees wearing nasty clothes with a walmart vest

versus

Target employees wearing khaki and red uniforms all standardized in appearance with no logo's

And yes, it makes a difference, I know people who only shop at Target because their people look a ton more PROFESSIONAL than billy bob wearing his ripped t shirt and vest does

Uhh...I hate to burst your bubble dude but I've worn dozens of rock shirts beneath my BDUs when it was laundry day and I didn't have a clean black t-shirt without any authorized emblems or logos at the time....it just can't be SHOWING out of your collar area and you can't remove your BDU top.

;)

Shrike
12-29-2009, 04:48 PM
Only because it has become "accepted" because people are lazy in their speech. However, I only pointed to that to show how retarded his response was to begin with. It was pretty weak to say the article I shared was not a news article when I did not claim it was a news article. What was the point? Maybe he has an agenda against that website; the article was mostly based on facts and information either way. Just like what is the point in bringing up the word use of Google? There was no real point...

God forbid I share a link I found on a quick search to make it easier for everyone to have a few more details on the subject.

So instead of simply saying "Oops, I was wrong, 'Google' is a verb", you write all of the above. I want to party with you! (Oh no, in accordance with common usage, I used another noun as a verb.)

VFFSSGT
12-29-2009, 04:52 PM
So instead of simply saying "Oops, I was wrong, 'Google' is a verb", you write all of the above. I want to party with you! (Oh no, in accordance with common usage, I used another noun as a verb.)

Except, I was not wrong...I was making a point - I had already known some list 'Google' as a verb. :rolleyes:

ConfusedAirman
12-29-2009, 04:57 PM
1) Your reference is not an "article" in the sense of being a "news article". It is an an opinion piece. Google the guy's name and a lot of news articles can be found.
Well, I did not claim it was a "news" article. I said "article" and there are multiple types of articles.

I have no doubt that you understand the difference. :rolleyes: I was just trying to clarify for other readers.


Google is not a verb; it is a name of a search engine and this was one of the articles at the top when I utilized the search engine. Where else do you think I found such information?

I have no doubt that you "Googled". :rolleyes: But I see that you didn't cite articles written by Sikh advocacy groups. You should at least try to cite hopefully neutral articles.


Oh yeah -
Goo·gle - A trademark used for an Internet search engine. This trademark often occurs in print as a verb, sometimes in lowercase: "A high school English teacher ... recently Googled a phrase in one student's paper and found it had been taken from a sample essay of an online editing service" (Chris Berdik).
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2009 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.



2) Someone else already pointed out that Sikhs are not Muslims.
I did not say they were. The article I pointed to also mentioned an individual of Islamic decent. Notice how I said " or like descent" The two practices referenced descend from cultures with similar practices.

Okay, but your use of "sects of Islam or people of similar decent", seemed to imply that you viewed Islam and Sikhism as "similar", which they are not. I am not sure what you mean by "cultures" because religion is just one part of what makes up a "culture". For example, if you are referring to the "American" culture, then that would include Islam, Sikhism, Christianity, Judaism, Wicca, and many more.


3) All said and done, I agree with the idea that "special permissions" for individuals are wrong. But it appears that in this case the Army should have released the guy from his service obligation even though the Army paid for his medical school. The fact that the Army caved tells me that they accept responsibility for a communication breakdown. The guy claims he was told by his recruiter that he could keep the beard and turban. Anyone attending medical school under military scholarship also attends various specialized military medical training and works in military medical facilities during training. Even though he was a civilian for all of this, you would think that at some point, the issue would have been flagged. The Army should just walk away minus many thousands of dollars for his medical schooling and take it as a lesson learned.
Just because a recruiter may or may not have said something, does not make it the "Army's" fault. Some recruiters say a lot of things that mislead people - the services do not condone this behavior though. Anyone that comes into the military believing they can keep a beard and turban is a moron - and this guy is a Doctor? Definitely playing the special interest and I'm a victim game.

As I said, the Army caved which tells me that they accept responsibility for the mixup. Maybe they don't, but that is my opinion for why they caved.


4) I am against any permanent "special permissions" for individuals, to include shaving waivers for individuals who just can't shave. Not so sure that I am against changing the rules so that religious exemptions can be made for entire groups of persons. I believe that anyone who have ever been associated with Sikhs know that they are extremely devout and don't use their religion as a scam. I have never met a Sikh that was not above reproach, something that I cannot say about many of the airmen I have to deal with on a daily basis. A beard or the lack of one does not make the man.
If you agree, then what exactly is your point in attacking the choice of information and words I share?

If you read my post carefully, you would understand that I don't necessarily agree that special permissions cannot be granted on religious grounds. To make it easier, don't call it "special permissions". Change the regs.


Have yourself a Happy New Year!

Shrike
12-29-2009, 04:58 PM
Except, I was not wrong...I was making a point - I had already known some list 'Google' as a verb. :rolleyes:

So when you said "Google is not a verb" that's not what you meant? Okay...



Even an arrogant, know-it-all pain-in-the-ass such as myself has admitted quite a few times on here that I was wrong or I made a mistake.

You, however, simply will not own up to your errors. No matter how small or how large. Ever. That's just sad, really. Something about pride (http://www.gotquestions.org/pride-Bible.html) comes to mind.

SailorDave
12-29-2009, 05:21 PM
Can someone perform a search using the Google search engine on the subject of "How to get a derailed forum thread back on topic" ?

I would, but I'm FUBAR'd.

MACHINE666
12-29-2009, 05:23 PM
How about using the word "Google" like this?

"She had a mouthful after the money shot and googled with it for the camera!"

:D :D :D :D :D

usafvol1
12-29-2009, 05:23 PM
Here's my take on it. I've perused all the posts, and believe there's lots of valid points that have been made, starting with the 1st--yes, the gas mask thing is BS. Especially since I've never known the AF to issue gas masks to everyone, only to those who are deploying or are in the bucket to deploy. Shhh, don't tell the terrorists that.

Why has the Army allowed a Sickh to wear a turban and not cut his hair? I think it's twofold--obviously, the DoD is trying to be more culturally correct, although I don't think this is the main reason.

The main reason? HE IS A PHYSICIAN. Physicians get preferential treatment in the military, and always have. This is also the same reason Ft. Hood happened. How are they treated differently? Physicians are not required to do any PME/IDE in order to make Major/Lt Col. Every other AFSC in the AF are. If a non-physician has not completed SOS or ASCS, he or she will NOT be promoted. A physician will. In fact, physicians OPRs can essentially be turned in blank, and they will make through Lt Col. I've not seen blank ones, but I have seen OPRs that look like a 3 year old wrote them, and it didn't matter. Physicians will not be booted for failing PT tests. There's an actual reg on it (don't know where it is, though). Pretty sure it's in the USC or DoD instructions somewhere. Physicians do, however, have to complete Air War College if he/she wants to make full bird. How fair is that? Ask the officers around you what a pain in the ass SOS and ACSC are, and ask them if they will/would be promoted without having completed them. So, a non-physician officer must have had completed THREE PME/IDE courses to make full bird, but a physician only one.

Physicians also may get several incentive/bonus/retention-types of pay. If they're board certified, they get several hundred dollars exra a month. Nurses, PAs, physical therapists, etc., do not get board certification pay. Flight docs get flight pay. But their bread and butter is their retention pay, which is several hundred dollars a month. A Capt or Maj or Lt Col, etc., physician does not make Capt or Maj or Lt Col pay, per say. With all the bonuses and such, a Capt physician might still make in all $125K or more a year. It's not unusual for the Med Group commander, a full bird, to make more than the wing commander, or EVEN a MAJCOM or numbered AF commander who lives on base (1 or 2 star general).

Supposedly, physicians are in such high demand within the military, the DoD will do anything in its power to keep them. Including giving preferential treatment and turning a blind eye to their transgressions.

BENDER56
12-29-2009, 06:24 PM
So when you said "Google is not a verb" that's not what you meant? Okay...



Even an arrogant, know-it-all pain-in-the-ass such as myself has admitted quite a few times on here that I was wrong or I made a mistake.

You, however, simply will not own up to your errors. No matter how small or how large. Ever. That's just sad, really. Something about pride (http://www.gotquestions.org/pride-Bible.html) comes to mind.

VFFSSGT: I never get involved with these side-feuds, but I have to agree with Shrike. First, you ridiculed someone for using Google as a verb. Then you agreed it's used as a verb, but apparently you don't think it should be because it's only become "acceptable" due to others' laziness (as if what we think, as individuals, has any bearing on the entire English language.) Then you claim you weren't wrong to ridicule the first guy for using Google as a verb even though you knew it was used as a verb before you ridiculed him. Wow. That's some mighty good tapdancing.

BTW, we have lots of common verbs that morphed from nouns and there's nothing improper about that. It's called back formation and it's been going on for centuries. "Peddle" and "emcee" are two that come to mind -- perhaps you should stop using them because they were created out of laziness. English evolves. Get over it.

SailorDave
12-29-2009, 06:30 PM
VFFSSGT: I never get involved with these side-feuds, but I have to agree with Shrike. First, you ridiculed someone for using Google as a verb. Then you agreed it's used as a verb, but apparently you don't think it should be because it's only become "acceptable" due to others' laziness (as if what we think, as individuals, has any bearing on the entire English language.) Then you claim you weren't wrong to ridicule the first guy for using Google as a verb even though you knew it was used as a verb before you ridiculed him. Wow. That's some mighty good tapdancing.

BTW, we have lots of common verbs that morphed from nouns and there's nothing improper about that. It's called back formation and it's been going on for centuries. "Peddle" and "emcee" are two that come to mind -- perhaps you should stop using them because they were created out of laziness. English evolves. Get over it.

Emcee. A word, created from an acronym (MC - Master of Cermonies). I have pity for those people who didn't grow up speaking English and then have to come here and learn "American". Must drive the Brits crazy, although they have some of their own good slang.

Measure Man
12-29-2009, 06:38 PM
Maybe you should all "friend" each other...

My coworker friended me and now we can just facebook when we need to sort something out.

imported_Parn
12-29-2009, 06:48 PM
Only because it has become "accepted" because people are lazy in their speech. However, I only pointed to that to show how retarded his response was to begin with.
This is irony at its finest. I like how you're using the slang variant of the word "retarded" as opposed to its proper usage while simultaneously prattling on at other people about "lazy speech." The word is used to describe a person's limited academic or intellectual capabilities and was never intended to be associated with an idea.

I could dig in deeper, but I'm more interested in seeing how you retort. It should be precious.

Shrike
12-29-2009, 06:54 PM
Maybe you should all "friend" each other...

My coworker friended me and now we can just facebook when we need to sort something out.

Damn, you punked us. To get over it, I'm going to party my ass off tonight.:D


On-topic: beards are not allowed because those of us that can grow massive, ZZ Top-ish beards in only a matter of days would make those who only need to shave every other day feel inadequate about their manhood. As this would cause hurt feelings, it is simply not allowed in our modern, PC society. ;)

Variable Wind
12-29-2009, 06:58 PM
How about we google "Retarded Threads" and see if this one pops up first.

Variable Wind
12-29-2009, 06:59 PM
Damn, you punked us. To get over it, I'm going to party my ass off tonight.:D


On-topic: beards are not allowed because those of us that can grow massive, ZZ Top-ish beards in only a matter of days would make those who only need to shave every other day feel inadequate about their manhood. As this would cause hurt feelings, it is simply not allowed in our modern, PC society. ;)

And those of you who could grow Gerard Butler 300 Beards or Chuck Norris Beards would immediately be assigned to special forces.

SailorDave
12-29-2009, 07:01 PM
My beard grows it's own beard.

usafvol1
12-29-2009, 07:05 PM
Hey, Parn--irony is fun, huh? I clearly see your point with the term "retarded," but VFFSGT MIGHT have still used it correctly, although unbeknownst to him... It can also mean, hindered, an obstacle, to slow down, to delay, etc... So he COULD have meant the person he was replying to slowed down the progress of the post, but I don't think that was his intent. VFFSGT has, however, impeded the progress of this entire forum, so it goes without saying now, that he, too, is "retarded."

BTW--"prattling"--nice word.

usafvol1
12-29-2009, 07:07 PM
Damn, you punked us. To get over it, I'm going to party my ass off tonight.:D


On-topic: beards are not allowed because those of us that can grow massive, ZZ Top-ish beards in only a matter of days would make those who only need to shave every other day feel inadequate about their manhood. As this would cause hurt feelings, it is simply not allowed in our modern, PC society. ;)

Would those be "Chuck Norris" beards?

Variable Wind
12-29-2009, 07:08 PM
Would those be "Chuck Norris" beards?

whoa, stealing jokes on the same page? Foul.

usafvol1
12-29-2009, 07:11 PM
Come on. Chuck Norris jokes are NEVER foul. NEVER. Under any circumstance.

Michaep
12-29-2009, 07:12 PM
Uhh...I hate to burst your bubble dude but I've worn dozens of rock shirts beneath my BDUs when it was laundry day and I didn't have a clean black t-shirt without any authorized emblems or logos at the time....it just can't be SHOWING out of your collar area and you can't remove your BDU top.

;)

DRUG URINALYSIS....ABU/BDU top comes off

sittin there lookin like a dirtbag to all :)

seen it multiple times.

p.s. in my experience, guys with mustaches in the military are usually cocky dirtbags....yeah....I said it

Shrike
12-29-2009, 07:14 PM
My beard grows it's own beard.

My beard's beard has it's own d#ck, and my beard's beard's d#ck is bigger than yours.

:D

imported_biddy1030
12-29-2009, 07:16 PM
DRUG URINALYSIS....ABU/BDU top comes off

sittin there lookin like a dirtbag to all :)

seen it multiple times.

p.s. in my experience, guys with mustaches in the military are usually cocky dirtbags....yeah....I said it

must not be AF wide, ive never had to remove my top during a piss test

SailorDave
12-29-2009, 07:17 PM
My beard's beard has it's own d#ck, and my beard's beard's d#ck is bigger than yours.

:D

MEAT GAZER !

imported_Yggdrasil
12-29-2009, 07:19 PM
I remember when that happened, Sailor. For ther longest time, the Navy could wear beards at sea. It was the late 80s or early 90s when they changed that.

I don't think the AF ever allowed them.

When it comes to tradition, the Air Force tradition goes back to the Continental Army, just like the Army's - that said, beards were already gone from the Army before the Air Force became a separate service. But the Army once did have beards - look at all those Civil War Generals. Again, to me, the Air Force has equal claim to that history.

Shrike
12-29-2009, 07:21 PM
MEAT GAZER !

Umm...my beard's beard has eyes, too. Yeah, that's the ticket.

Shrike
12-29-2009, 07:23 PM
must not be AF wide, ive never had to remove my top during a piss test
Well, as long as we're going completely OT:
One time, the monitor asked me to take off my pants and jacket.
(say it out loud to yourself)

imported_biddy1030
12-29-2009, 07:24 PM
Well, as long as we're going completely OT:
One time, the monitor asked my to take off my pants and jacket.
(say it out loud to yourself)

hey you and VFFSSGT started this now clusterf*** of a thread

Shrike
12-29-2009, 07:25 PM
hey you and VFFSSGT started this now clusterf*** of a thread

It's not my fault. The beard I grew during Christmas break made me do it.

imported_Yggdrasil
12-29-2009, 07:28 PM
Emcee. A word, created from an acronym (MC - Master of Cermonies). I have pity for those people who didn't grow up speaking English and then have to come here and learn "American". Must drive the Brits crazy, although they have some of their own good slang.

Many people don't realize this, but neither the English spoken in America today nor the English spoken in the UK is the English that was spoken in the 1700's. After the Revolutionary War, English spoken in both places evolved. There are some aspects that we maintained from then that they didn't in the UK. For example, "a" is in "apple" how we say it was pronounced the same way by all English speakers in the 1700's. It was the Brits who changed it to "a" as in "Han Solo". Also, Brits only use the word "lend"; they never used the word "loan" as a verb. Again, this is another example of a change that was made by the Brits.

Hell, even the Southern accent... it actually comes from the fact that most of the settlers in the South were from the counties of the West Country region of England, where many similarities exist to this day.

imported_Yggdrasil
12-29-2009, 07:35 PM
AFI 36-2903 Dress and Appearance Standards....youre in the MILITARY...DEAL with it

"boo hoo...why cant I wear my AC/DC t-shirt underneath my uniforms....:::tear:::"

You wanna wear converse sneakers too?

Anyway...Its about maintaining a professional image.

Believe it or not, other countries uniforms and appearance make them look bad to a lot of Americans while stateside

Full on beards, Earrings, Pants not bloused, boots with no shine and scuffs everywhere, sleeves rolled up....etc.....

Its the difference between Walmart employees wearing nasty clothes with a walmart vest

versus

Target employees wearing khaki and red uniforms all standardized in appearance with no logo's

And yes, it makes a difference, I know people who only shop at Target because their people look a ton more PROFESSIONAL than billy bob wearing his ripped t shirt and vest does

Michaep, I don't think that the complaint is really about wearing beards; I think that the complaint is about us having our intelligence insulted by saying that it's about gas masks. If each component doesn't want us wearing beards for appearance reasons, then they need to come out and say it - not give us a bullshit reason.

Think about it - why aren't females required to shave that peach fuzz of their faces? Why do foreign armies - particularly the ones in the Middle East who are far more likely to encounter CBR/NBC weapons than we are - allowed to wear beards? Hell, why are many civilian firefighters allowed to wear beards?

Like I said, if they don't want us wearing beards, fine; but at least give us a reason that doesn't insult our intelligence.

imported_biddy1030
12-29-2009, 07:36 PM
It's not my fault. The beard I grew during Christmas break made me do it.

how do you brush your teeth in the morning? im assuming your beards beards penis gets morning wood like the rest of us.

Shrike
12-29-2009, 07:39 PM
how do you brush your teeth in the morning? im assuming your beards beards penis gets morning wood like the rest of us.

<SNARF!> I'm now wiping coffee off of my monitor. Well played, sir!

:D

SailorDave
12-29-2009, 07:41 PM
Would it work if someone simply said "Because I said so !".

Doesn't really matter what answer they give. Someone will always disagree. When it comes down to it, we don't need a reason. It's because we were told to. Why should the CSAF, CSA, CNO or CMC have to justify to us why they want something ? We work for them, they're our bosses. Until that situation is reversed and someone who likes beards comes into power, that's the way it is.

It's probably as simple as "I don't think it looks professional, so I'm not going to allow it. I'm the Big Cheese and what I say goes. So there !".

Variable Wind
12-29-2009, 07:42 PM
how do you brush your teeth in the morning? im assuming your beards beards penis gets morning wood like the rest of us.

What do you think he is using for Toothpaste?

GoatDriver57
12-29-2009, 08:48 PM
Back on topic!
Maybe it's the collective BO?
The first task in morning training/teaching the SW Asian was to hand out a good smelling soap so every student would wash out yesterday's activities. Up close, those beards were/are worse than a good case of morning vomit breath. Yes, the BO was coming from those well groomed faces when you have four or five students around you and you've checked your feet for the second time.

Gas masks, was good enough for the uniformity and one more less issue for the 'know-it-alls to banter. :)

VFFSSGT
12-29-2009, 09:46 PM
So when you said "Google is not a verb" that's not what you meant? Okay...



Even an arrogant, know-it-all pain-in-the-ass such as myself has admitted quite a few times on here that I was wrong or I made a mistake.

You, however, simply will not own up to your errors. No matter how small or how large. Ever. That's just sad, really. Something about pride (http://www.gotquestions.org/pride-Bible.html) comes to mind.

You would be wrong on this note...I distinctly remember submitting to an error not too long ago and I believe it was techno but can't be absolutely sure it was to him. I will conceded it was a poor choice of a way to make a point, apparently. :cool:

VFFSSGT
12-29-2009, 09:47 PM
Can someone perform a search using the Google search engine on the subject of "How to get a derailed forum thread back on topic" ?

I would, but I'm FUBAR'd.

Talking a sip of coffee immediately before reading this post was a bad idea. :D

VFFSSGT
12-29-2009, 09:51 PM
Hey, Parn--irony is fun, huh? I clearly see your point with the term "retarded," but VFFSGT MIGHT have still used it correctly, although unbeknownst to him... It can also mean, hindered, an obstacle, to slow down, to delay, etc... So he COULD have meant the person he was replying to slowed down the progress of the post, but I don't think that was his intent. VFFSGT has, however, impeded the progress of this entire forum, so it goes without saying now, that he, too, is "retarded."

BTW--"prattling"--nice word.

The fact that you people sat on this is retarded. :) I will try to keep my post very simple and keep the complex thought out of them in the future so they might be understood by all... :rolleyes:

VFFSSGT
12-29-2009, 09:52 PM
It's not my fault. The beard I grew during Christmas break made me do it.

Now you are the victim... :rolleyes:

:D

Michaep
12-29-2009, 09:58 PM
you should just all get laser hair removal performed on your faces....problem solved

ramprat
12-30-2009, 12:09 AM
Its the same in a civilian job that has ANY responsibility !
Any large company has a dress code ,written or unwritten ITS there.Salaried positions at small companies
have same .

ChiefB
12-30-2009, 12:46 AM
If that army can pull this off..then maybe..just maybe I should be a "sikh" too


US Army Capt. Kamaljeet Singh Kalsi, a Sikh, was granted the right to wear his beard and turban in uniform last month, an accommodation that will weaken military culture, "fueling doubts about the judgment of leadership and resentment of special treatment for religious minorities."

I'm a Christian and I want to wear wood nails in my hands and feet! Should I petition the Army on the grounds of equal treatment?

Just sayin?

ChiefB

ChiefB
12-30-2009, 12:50 AM
My dad was in the Navy and I remember in the 80s he always had a beard and then one day he didn't. My little brother was I think 7 at the time and thought this "man" in our house was a stranger. He didn't recognize dad without a beard. He had never seen dad without one. It took him about a day or two to finally realize this man was in fact his dad and not some stranger moving in. I'll have to ask him why they could no longer have a beard since I never cared to ask then.

Why didn't he ask your Mom, or didn't she recognize him, either. :D

No offense....just couldn't resist..

ChiefB

ChiefB
12-30-2009, 01:07 AM
Not to be nit-picky, but Sikhs are not Muslims. Sikhism is a totally different religion that originated in India. However, I agree with the overall sentiment of your post.

Also, I have a personal incentive not to grow a beard. If I even thought about growing one, I'd never get any again from my wife.

Yeah, but the Sikh religion (Sikhism) requires 3 accouterments: A beard, a turban and a curved knife, called a kirpan. Did the Army authorize all three?

The Brits did.

ChiefB

ChiefB
12-30-2009, 01:19 AM
So when you said "Google is not a verb" that's not what you meant? Okay...



Even an arrogant, know-it-all pain-in-the-ass such as myself has admitted quite a few times on here that I was wrong or I made a mistake.

You, however, simply will not own up to your errors. No matter how small or how large. Ever. That's just sad, really. Something about pride (http://www.gotquestions.org/pride-Bible.html) comes to mind.

"pride goes before destruction, a haughty spirit before a fall. Better to be lowly in spirit and among the oppressed than to share plunder with the proud"

Amen, Brother, Amen..

Google is a NOUN! and a verb

ChiefB

imported_LOAL-D
12-30-2009, 01:23 AM
Seriosly, why arent beards allowed..and dont give me that gasmask BS

I don't generally bitch about spelling, but in the thread title?...:D

Morale is not Moral...Your is not You're.....


ahhh, sorry carry on

ChiefB
12-30-2009, 01:26 AM
Maybe you should all "friend" each other...

My coworker friended me and now we can just facebook when we need to sort something out.

Does that mean he gave you "a reach around":confused:



ChiefB

imported_LOAL-D
12-30-2009, 01:28 AM
Does that mean he gave you "a reach around":confused:



ChiefB

At least light a candle and put on some Yani music....

ChiefB
12-30-2009, 01:29 AM
How about we google "Retarded Threads" and see if this one pops up first.

THAT was a "precious retort". Har

ChiefB

ChiefB
12-30-2009, 01:33 AM
How about using the word "Google" like this?

"She had a mouthful after the money shot and googled with it for the camera!"

:D :D :D :D :D

That's "Gargled" and a whole 'nuther thread.:tongue:

ChiefB

redd
12-30-2009, 01:38 AM
Reach arounds and money shots.....???


I give up. :)

ChiefB
12-30-2009, 01:38 AM
must not be AF wide, ive never had to remove my top during a piss test

Then you've never been suspected of the "wife's piss bottle under the armpit w/tube to the palm" drug dodge?


ChiefB

SailorDave
12-30-2009, 01:44 AM
Not till they start finding excess estrogen in their urine for men.

ChiefB
12-30-2009, 01:53 AM
Not till they start finding excess estrogen in their urine for men.

Then you have to catch your dog at an appropriate time. If not, there is always the
"alien day worker" trick.

Just sayin'

ChiefB

Measure Man
12-30-2009, 01:48 PM
must not be AF wide, ive never had to remove my top during a piss test

I've always had to remove my top...at several different places...thought that was standard procedure.

Shrike
12-30-2009, 02:12 PM
I've always had to remove my top...at several different places...thought that was standard procedure.

And at these "several different places" were there men in leather waving dollar bills at you?

:D

Variable Wind
12-30-2009, 02:25 PM
And at these "several different places" were there men in leather waving dollar bills at you?

:D

They have AF bases in San Fransisco?

MACHINE666
12-30-2009, 03:47 PM
And at these "several different places" were there men in leather waving dollar bills at you?

:D

Ha ha! Once again Shrike rocks out!!

:D :D :D :D :D

takthekak
12-30-2009, 04:22 PM
If that army can pull this off..then maybe..just maybe I should be a "sikh" too


US Army Capt. Kamaljeet Singh Kalsi, a Sikh, was granted the right to wear his beard and turban in uniform last month, an accommodation that will weaken military culture, "fueling doubts about the judgment of leadership and resentment of special treatment for religious minorities."

You can wear a beard when you learn to spell your topic title correctly.

MACHINE666
12-30-2009, 04:23 PM
Dude - you can wear a 'beard' when yah go commando next time....just don't shave!

:D :D :D :D :D

imported_Yggdrasil
12-30-2009, 10:29 PM
Would it work if someone simply said "Because I said so !".

Doesn't really matter what answer they give. Someone will always disagree. When it comes down to it, we don't need a reason. It's because we were told to. Why should the CSAF, CSA, CNO or CMC have to justify to us why they want something ? We work for them, they're our bosses. Until that situation is reversed and someone who likes beards comes into power, that's the way it is.

It's probably as simple as "I don't think it looks professional, so I'm not going to allow it. I'm the Big Cheese and what I say goes. So there !".

At least "because I said so" doesn't insult anyone's intelligence. But apparently, some people don't have the balls to say it, so they give us a reason that we all know is pure BS.

JD2780
12-31-2009, 01:41 AM
THe no beard thing might be like alot of other things. A few bad apples ruined it for everybody else. As for the SOF guys growing beards. Yes in the AOR or in performance of your duties. However, we need to shave it off as soon as we're back. In some cases you have to have it shaved off prior to leaving country. All other things like civies can still be worn, but beards have to be shaven. I love my beard and wish I could always wear it. Who knows the reason, other than Household6 saying you'll never touch me again if that THING on your face touches me. She said it stank. I had gotten used to it!!!

Silver Fox
12-31-2009, 02:20 AM
AFI 36-2903 Dress and Appearance Standards....youre in the MILITARY...DEAL with it

"boo hoo...why cant I wear my AC/DC t-shirt underneath my uniforms....:::tear:::"

You wanna wear converse sneakers too?

Anyway...Its about maintaining a professional image.

Believe it or not, other countries uniforms and appearance make them look bad to a lot of Americans while stateside

Full on beards, Earrings, Pants not bloused, boots with no shine and scuffs everywhere, sleeves rolled up....etc.....

Its the difference between Walmart employees wearing nasty clothes with a walmart vest

versus

Target employees wearing khaki and red uniforms all standardized in appearance with no logo's

And yes, it makes a difference, I know people who only shop at Target because their people look a ton more PROFESSIONAL than billy bob wearing his ripped t shirt and vest does

Wow. This was a bad answer period, but coming from the guy who is always wondering why we can't do this and that.... I'll make sure I throw a reg in your face and say "You're in the military, deal with it."

Someone OD'd on fucking kool aid this morning.

Michaep
12-31-2009, 03:40 AM
Wow. This was a bad answer period, but coming from the guy who is always wondering why we can't do this and that.... I'll make sure I throw a reg in your face and say "You're in the military, deal with it."

Someone OD'd on fucking kool aid this morning.

what do I say "why cant we" to?

anyway, im allowed the freedom of expression, as are you. Throw out as many regs as you like, if i dont like it then i simply hit the power button, problem solved :)

Silver Fox
12-31-2009, 04:02 AM
what do I say "why cant we" to?

anyway, im allowed the freedom of expression, as are you. Throw out as many regs as you like, if i dont like it then i simply hit the power button, problem solved :)

Hahaha, yeah, maybe, but you won't be able to do it IRL when a reg nazi tells you to unroll your hat. Then you'll get all pissed off, and you'll have no right to.

BENDER56
12-31-2009, 03:01 PM
THe no beard thing might be like alot of other things. A few bad apples ruined it for everybody else.

I don't see how anyone ruined anything for anyone. Beards have never been allowed in the AF since its inception. Who "ruined" it and how did they manage to "ruin" something that wasn't allowed to begin with?

The answer to the original question is that beards aren't allowed for the same reason we can't wear long hair, or we can't have tattoos on our faces, or we can't wear psychedelic-colored shades, etcetera -- military image. Yes, I know, "military image" is nebulous and arbitrary and everyone has a different opinion about it; but there it is. We can't wear beards because someone somewhere at sometime decided beards don't present a military image. Do I agree with it? Do you agree with it? Who cares? But you know what's really stupid -- that we can only have one break in the crease of our trousers. Why not two breaks? Or five? Or none? I'm gonna get upset about that.

Is that a better answer than "gasmask BS"?

And FWIW, I grow a beard whenever I take more than a couple days of leave and my wife loves it ('cause I had a beard when we first met.) Then when my leave ends I shave it off and go to work and neither of us gives it a second thought..

BRUWIN
12-31-2009, 03:30 PM
Beards shouldn't be allowed because they intefere with a good seal on your gas mask.

weazlefuzion
12-31-2009, 03:36 PM
AFI 36-2903 Dress and Appearance Standards....youre in the MILITARY...DEAL with it

"boo hoo...why cant I wear my AC/DC t-shirt underneath my uniforms....:::tear:::"

You wanna wear converse sneakers too?

Anyway...Its about maintaining a professional image.

Believe it or not, other countries uniforms and appearance make them look bad to a lot of Americans while stateside

Full on beards, Earrings, Pants not bloused, boots with no shine and scuffs everywhere, sleeves rolled up....etc.....

Its the difference between Walmart employees wearing nasty clothes with a walmart vest

versus

Target employees wearing khaki and red uniforms all standardized in appearance with no logo's

And yes, it makes a difference, I know people who only shop at Target because their people look a ton more PROFESSIONAL than billy bob wearing his ripped t shirt and vest does

"Because I said so" is never a good answer. Ever. That's when you go from being an NCO to being a shitty NCO. The French Foreign Legion has been one of the most revered, romanticized institutions in history, yet even they wear beards as they see fit. Additionally, their work uniforms are pretty crappy looking on a regular basis, but it's expected that your dress uniform is neat.

While I don't think beards should be allowed because I was simply socialized in a culture that says they're unprofessional, your reasoning eludes logic.

Silver Fox
12-31-2009, 04:42 PM
. The French Foreign Legion has been one of the most revered, romanticized institutions in history, yet even they wear beards as they see fit.

Eh, not really. Only at certain times when they're deployed, or if you're in a certain unit that wears beards ceremonially.

ConfusedAirman
12-31-2009, 04:47 PM
Beards shouldn't be allowed because they intefere with a good seal on your gas mask.

Seeing this one-liner immediately below the thread title gave me a laugh.

weazlefuzion
12-31-2009, 07:36 PM
Eh, not really. Only at certain times when they're deployed, or if you're in a certain unit that wears beards ceremonially.

Correct, not as the individual sees fit, but as the Legion does... specifically referencing that latter point, when professional appearance matters.

Shrike
12-31-2009, 07:55 PM
Beards shouldn't be allowed because they intefere with a good seal on your gas mask.

You crack me up, ya little instigator, you! :D

imported_Yggdrasil
12-31-2009, 08:42 PM
"Because I said so" is never a good answer. Ever. That's when you go from being an NCO to being a shitty NCO.

Well, if the only two options are "because I said so" and an obviously false reason, I'd gladly accept "because I said so" as the lesser of the two evils.

Face it, the only reason we're being fed this nonsense is because if the DoD components gave us a truthful reason, i.e. a belief that it looks unprofessional or something like that, they know that they'd have to hear counter arguments from those in the military.

Instead, they tell you that it's for gas masks because they feel that that's what's going to make you shut up and go on about your day.

SailorDave
12-31-2009, 09:01 PM
This emphasizes the differences in generations. When I was growing up, my dad told me to do certain things. If I asked him why, he'd tell me "Because you'll get the back of my hand if you don't. Now shut your yap and get busy". Asking why was questioning his authority as a father and he wasn't having that. If I wanted to let my hair grow, he'd tell me "Not under my roof. When you're an adult, and on your own, you can do whatever you want". There were rules, he was the dad and he got to make them. I learned quickly that if I wanted to fight the old man, I better have damned good reasons. Otherwise, just accept it and move on as something you have no control over. That's the way I view the military. We have bosses and they tell us what to do. Some things can be questioned, like procedures for accomplishing a certain task. But generally speaking, just do as you're told and don't worry about the small $h!t. Don't like that you can't grow a beard ? Do your time and get out, then grow all the ZZ Top beard you want. Hate the ABU or reflective belts ?? Same answer.

We try to "explain" too much to people these days. We feel the need to justify all our decisions. Too much "why, why, why" and not enough "roger that" on crap that has no bearing on your health or welfare or paycheck. You have the right to question anything that could get you hurt, killed, fired or demoted. Everything else is a minor inconvenience. [/rant]

imported_Yggdrasil
12-31-2009, 09:13 PM
This emphasizes the differences in generations. When I was growing up, my dad told me to do certain things. If I asked him why, he'd tell me "Because you'll get the back of my hand if you don't. Now shut your yap and get busy". Asking why was questioning his authority as a father and he wasn't having that. If I wanted to let my hair grow, he'd tell me "Not under my roof. When you're an adult, and on your own, you can do whatever you want". There were rules, he was the dad and he got to make them. I learned quickly that if I wanted to fight the old man, I better have damned good reasons. Otherwise, just accept it and move on as something you have no control over. That's the way I view the military. We have bosses and they tell us what to do. Some things can be questioned, like procedures for accomplishing a certain task. But generally speaking, just do as you're told and don't worry about the small $h!t. Don't like that you can't grow a beard ? Do your time and get out, then grow all the ZZ Top beard you want. Hate the ABU or reflective belts ?? Same answer. We try to "explain" too much to people these days. We feel the need to justify all our decisions. Too much "why, why, why" and not enough "roger that" on crap that has no bearing on your health or welfare or paycheck. You have the right to question anything that could get you hurt, killed, fired or demoted. Everything else is a minor inconvenience. [/rant] What I'm trying to make obvious here is that it's not about demanding a reason - it's about people's intelligence being insulted. You, me, and everyone here knows good and well why beards are not allowed. All I want is for those responsible for that decision to just come out and SAY it.

takthekak
12-31-2009, 10:00 PM
Beards shouldn't be allowed because they intefere with a good seal on your gas mask.

I guess them Canadians are screwed in a gas attack. I worked in NORAD and they
sure can grow some beards...
On another topic, have you noticed that it is frowned upon for high ranking wing CC's
and generals to have a mustache?

ConfusedAirman
12-31-2009, 10:23 PM
What I'm trying to make obvious here is that it's not about demanding a reason - it's about people's intelligence being insulted. You, me, and everyone here knows good and well why beards are not allowed. All I want is for those responsible for that decision to just come out and SAY it.

I definitely agree. And I understand if the reason is because someone says no beards present a more military appearance (read that to say AF appearance with zero consideration to what other nations allow). Someone in some authority has to decide what is and is not military appearance. If beards don't meet their definition of military appearance, OK. Despite the title's thread, I have never heard anyone seriously make the argument that gas masks are the issue as I've been in before gas masks were an issue and beards weren't allowed then either. But again, despite the thread's title, the issue was the Army giving special permission to one guy for his religion. If our nation chooses to force the military to alter its definition of military appearance, then so be it. As a citizen first, military second, I have no problem with that.

imported_Yggdrasil
12-31-2009, 10:24 PM
I guess them Canadians are screwed in a gas attack. I worked in NORAD and they
sure can grow some beards...
On another topic, have you noticed that it is frowned upon for high ranking wing CC's
and generals to have a mustache?

Wearing moustaches in the military is the result of military members desperately holding on to the only piece of facial hair that they're allowed to have.

Civilians have stopped wearing moustaches well over 20 years ago. Even Burt Reynolds no longer wears one. You won't see any moustaches at a Hall & Oates concert either. All that's left from the 80's still sporting the 'stache is Ron Jeremy and Sean Connery.

I say just let it go and shave off the moustache. Because it just looks totally stupid on some 25 year old wearing a button-down shirt with boot cut jeans and square toed shoes.

BigBaze
01-02-2010, 03:48 AM
for the same reason in tech school they wanted all sleeves rolled up, or all sleeves down in formation, ....not either or. Everyone looking uniform. and I'll be damned if I grow a beard.

BRUWIN
01-02-2010, 04:50 AM
I guess them Canadians are screwed in a gas attack. I worked in NORAD and they
sure can grow some beards...


And then they wonder why we confuse them with ragheads on the battlefield.

CplH5811
01-02-2010, 05:03 AM
for the same reason in tech school they wanted all sleeves rolled up, or all sleeves down in formation, ....not either or. Everyone looking uniform. and I'll be damned if I grow a beard.

And yet, they don't require every male to grow a moustache because one did. And the opposite of that is also true.

Try and find a new angle of attack.

redd
01-02-2010, 05:09 AM
Mustaches are only appropriate during Mustache March:)

JD2780
01-02-2010, 05:14 AM
AGREED, I'm anxiously awaiting. The wife is deployed, I have no reason to grow a great catapillar!!!

ChiefB
01-02-2010, 07:19 AM
What I'm trying to make obvious here is that it's not about demanding a reason - it's about people's intelligence being insulted. You, me, and everyone here knows good and well why beards are not allowed. All I want is for those responsible for that decision to just come out and SAY it.

Gas masks should not be allowed, cause they interfere with my beard?

or

Reflective belts should not be allowed cause they interfere with my beard?

or

Beards should not be allowed because they interfere with my oxygen mask"

or

Beards are filthy and they stink!

or as she said:

"Kissing a man with a beard is like licking a Campbell soup can filled with old onions, hamburgers, beer and ....."tuna"!"

or

STFU and shave! :tongue:

ChiefB

ChiefB
01-02-2010, 08:12 AM
And then they wonder why we confuse them with ragheads on the battlefield.

I knew it! You are a kanuckaphobe!:tongue:

ChiefB

JD2780
01-02-2010, 06:26 PM
HAHAHAAHA America Jr.

imported_WeatherGyrl
01-03-2010, 04:28 AM
Beards shouldn't be allowed because they intefere with a good seal on your gas mask.

If this is a legitimate reason then females should not have to wear their hair up either, because the hair must be taken down before putting the mask on (at least when being fitted), which in a life and death situation, could potentially cause her death.

bcoco14
01-03-2010, 04:49 AM
If this is a legitimate reason then females should not have to wear their hair up either, because the hair must be taken down before putting the mask on (at least when being fitted), which in a life and death situation, could potentially cause her death.

ahhh you didn't catch the :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

imported_WeatherGyrl
01-03-2010, 04:54 AM
I did, just pointing out yet another discrepancy in the seriously flawed reasoning the Air Force gives us for pretty much anything and everything the leadership decides.

ChiefB
01-03-2010, 05:05 AM
I did, just pointing out yet another discrepancy in the seriously flawed reasoning the Air Force gives us for pretty much anything and everything the leadership decides.

Ahh, you're just hosed cause you can't grow that beard the AF says you can't.:tongue:

ChiefB

imported_WeatherGyrl
01-03-2010, 05:35 AM
Haha! Whether the AF says I can or not, I think anything shy of some serious steroids and testosterone supplements will likely prevent me from growing a beard. Besides, how would I put on my lipstick with a beard in my way? :D

ChiefB
01-03-2010, 05:46 AM
Haha! Whether the AF says I can or not, I think anything shy of some serious steroids and testosterone supplements will likely prevent me from growing a beard. Besides, how would I put on my lipstick with a beard in my way? :D

"Ahh, you're just hosed cause you can't (biologically) grow that beard the AF says you can't.:tongue:"

Read my post again... and all will be clear!:D

That better?

ChiefB

MACHINE666
01-03-2010, 08:07 PM
I grow my 'special' beard that nobody can see!

:D :D :D :D :D

BRUWIN
01-03-2010, 11:14 PM
If this is a legitimate reason then females should not have to wear their hair up either, because the hair must be taken down before putting the mask on (at least when being fitted), which in a life and death situation, could potentially cause her death.

She'll be fine...just don't let her reverse any vehicles wearing a mask. Females are bad enough reversing machinery without wearing a gas mask.

redd
01-04-2010, 12:14 AM
Nuh-Uh.... :(

imported_WeatherGyrl
01-04-2010, 12:20 AM
She'll be fine...just don't let her reverse any vehicles wearing a mask. Females are bad enough reversing machinery without wearing a gas mask.

I don't know about reversing, I haven't run into anything yet, but I can't park for sh*t and I'll be the first to admit it, I don't even attempt parallel parking and I do think it is one of those skills men are born with that women *can* acquire, but generally don't... ;)

Measure Man
01-04-2010, 01:25 PM
I am 12 days away from getting my goatee on...

navysailor2004
01-04-2010, 01:32 PM
I am 12 days away from getting my goatee on...

retirement? congratulations, and good luck on your future endevours. :D

ChiefB
01-05-2010, 03:35 AM
I guess them Canadians are screwed in a gas attack. I worked in NORAD and they
sure can grow some beards...
On another topic, have you noticed that it is frowned upon for high ranking wing CC's
and generals to have a mustache?

I can remember when Col. Robin Olds (BGen, later) Vietnam jet Ace and Wing King took so much heat about his handlebar mustache that it hit the National news.

http://www.DailyAviator.com/images/2007-04/robin-olds.jpg

We all thought it was a such crock at the time that the DOD and the news had their shyt in such a knot. Long hair, mustaches and green towels were standard in the ranks.

We AF pukes were all fascinated by his "Jock" photos; flight suit, silk scarf, handlebar mustache and FU attitude. http://www.militarytimes.com/forum/images/icons/icon6.gif

"After his duty in Vietnam, General Olds was named commandant of cadets at the U.S. Air Force Academy from 1967 to 1971."

"General Olds once said his magnificent mustache represented his defiance. It lasted until, as a colonel, he went to Washington after his service in Vietnam to meet the Air Force chief of staff, Gen. John P. McConnell. General McConnell stuck a finger under Colonel Olds’s nose and commanded, “Take it off.”

"According to tradition, when F-4 fighter pilot Robin Olds returned for a second tour in Vietnam having been ordered to shave his trademark handlebar moustache, his squadron all grew mustaches in protest. The protest lives on today with “Moustache March” where any pilot capable of growing a mustache, does."

"6/15/2007 - U.S. AIR FORCE ACADEMY, Colo. (AFPN) -- Legendary fighter pilot, retired Brig. Gen. Robin Olds, died June 14 from congestive heart failure one month short of his 85th birthday.

BGen Robin Olds, My kinda guy!

ChiefB

takthekak
01-05-2010, 04:17 AM
I can remember when Col. Robin Olds (BGen, later) Vietnam jet Ace and Wing King took so much heat about his handlebar mustache that it hit the National news.

http://www.DailyAviator.com/images/2007-04/robin-olds.jpg

We all thought it was a such crock at the time that the DOD and the news had their shyt in such a knot. Long hair, mustaches and green towels were standard in the ranks.

We AF pukes were all fascinated by his "Jock" photos; flight suit, silk scarf, handlebar mustache and FU attitude. http://www.militarytimes.com/forum/images/icons/icon6.gif

"6/15/2007 - U.S. AIR FORCE ACADEMY, Colo. (AFPN) -- Legendary fighter pilot, retired Brig. Gen. Robin Olds, died June 14 from congestive heart failure one month short of his 85th birthday.

After his duty in Vietnam, General Olds was named commandant of cadets at the U.S. Air Force Academy from 1967 to 1971."

"General Olds once said his magnificent mustache represented his defiance. It lasted until, as a colonel, he went to Washington after his service in Vietnam to meet the Air Force chief of staff, Gen. John P. McConnell. General McConnell stuck a finger under Colonel Olds’s nose and commanded, “Take it off.”

"According to tradition, when F-4 fighter pilot Robin Olds returned for a second tour in Vietnam having been ordered to shave his trademark handlebar moustache, his squadron all grew mustaches in protest. The protest lives on today with “Moustache March” where any pilot capable of growing a mustache, does."

"6/15/2007 - U.S. AIR FORCE ACADEMY, Colo. (AFPN) -- Legendary fighter pilot, retired Brig. Gen. Robin Olds, died June 14 from congestive heart failure one month short of his 85th birthday.

BGen Robin Olds, My kinda guy!

ChiefB

Thanks, that made my day. It gave me hope that one day we may have 1 person in leadership actually take another stand on something meaningful.

Also, wikipedia has more great info on him...damn, now he was a leader. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Olds

JD2780
01-05-2010, 04:19 AM
Heres to mustache march!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Let'em grow men!!! And women if you can why not!!!! or wear a fake one to work. Everybody will laugh and we all need a good laugh.

ChiefB
01-05-2010, 04:42 AM
Thanks, that made my day. It gave me hope that one day we may have 1 person in leadership actually take another stand on something meaningful.

Also, wikipedia has more great info on him...damn, now he was a leader. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Olds

And, isn't it odd that real "leaders" and effective mavericks, Aces and good Commanders that everyone likes, admires and respects, like Olds and Yeager seem to top out at the "token" grade of BGen and other guys that carry chickenshyt in a duffle bag make it to 4 stars?

Just sayin'

ChiefB

MACHINE666
01-05-2010, 05:04 AM
And, isn't it odd that real "leaders" and effective mavericks, Aces and good Commanders that everyone likes, admires and respects, like Olds and Yeager seem to top out at the "token" grade of BGen and other guys that carry chickenshyt in a duffle bag make it to 4 stars?

Just sayin'

ChiefB

Yah know Chief B, I'm starting to like you! :D Keep this up and you'll soon be earning cool points the way Shrike does in my book!

:D :D :D :D :D

ChiefB
01-05-2010, 05:26 AM
Yah know Chief B, I'm starting to like you! :D Keep this up and you'll soon be earning cool points the way Shrike does in my book!

:D :D :D :D :D

Yeah, I'd like to meet Shrike.. I like the cut of his jib...:cool:

Thanks M6

ChiefB

imported_blacksheep1208
01-05-2010, 07:21 AM
And, isn't it odd that real "leaders" and effective mavericks, Aces and good Commanders that everyone likes, admires and respects, like Olds and Yeager seem to top out at the "token" grade of BGen and other guys that carry chickenshyt in a duffle bag make it to 4 stars?

Just sayin'

ChiefB

I don't think it's odd at all. Yes men and sellouts are the ones that make it in this world. The guys who rock the boat and have the guts to fight for what is right are the ones that get shafted. They may hit a ceiling, but at least they know they fought for what they believed in.

Shrike
01-05-2010, 01:31 PM
Yeah, I'd like to meet Shrike.. I like the cut of his jib...:cool:

Thanks M6

ChiefB

When did you see my jib? I keep that thing locked away!

;)

SailorDave
01-05-2010, 06:32 PM
Don't Ask, Don't Tell !! It hasn't been repealed yet !

Variable Wind
01-05-2010, 06:42 PM
Don't Ask, Don't Tell !! It hasn't been repealed yet !

The Jib or the Policy?

Shrike
01-05-2010, 07:00 PM
The Jib or the Policy?

My Jib can be peeled, but never repealed.

:D

Variable Wind
01-05-2010, 07:03 PM
My Jib can be peeled, but never repealed.

:D

Thats what you think. Those pills get ride of the gunk, but they dont keep it from coming back. :D

ChiefB
01-05-2010, 08:19 PM
When did you see my jib? I keep that thing locked away!

;)

I've only seen the "cut", the rest was locked away.:(

ChiefB

Shrike
01-05-2010, 08:26 PM
I've only seen the "cut", the rest was locked away.:(

ChiefB

Now THAT made me lol!

Pullinteeth
09-12-2013, 02:10 PM
"boo hoo...why cant I wear my AC/DC t-shirt underneath my uniforms....:::tear:::"

You could when we had BDUs...


Now that you mention it.......I do want to wear converse shoes with my uniform!!!!!!

:D

You can....converse makes boots too-not as comfortable as one might think...

This article has a picture of an Army Capt with a full beard testing the seal on his gasmask...

http://www.army.mil/article/36339/sikh-soldiers-allowed-to-serve-retain-their-articles-of-faith/

BOSS302
09-12-2013, 02:43 PM
Ew. Imagine having a beard and cinching a gas-mask down to your face in Korea in the middle of the summer, and having it on for hours on end. Sweat. Heat burn. Irritation. I would think the underside of the chin and the neck/jawline would end up looking like a pepperoni pizza.

Giant Voice
09-12-2013, 02:48 PM
Isn't the US one of the few countries that don't allow beards/goaties for the normal serviceman.

Also...raise your hand if you have been gassed during combat in the last 23 years.

I personnaly wouldn't have a beard if it were allowed, but a goat...maybe!

BOSS302
09-12-2013, 02:51 PM
Isn't the US one of the few countries that don't allow beards/goaties for the normal serviceman.

Also...raise your hand if you have been gassed during combat in the last 23 years.

I personnaly wouldn't have a beard if it were allowed, but a goat...maybe!

Raise your hand if you've been nuked in the last 23 years.

Giant Voice
09-12-2013, 02:55 PM
Raise your hand if you've been nuked in the last 23 years.

I have been RF'd a few times.

Airborne
09-12-2013, 03:22 PM
You could when we had BDUs...



You can....converse makes boots too-not as comfortable as one might think...

This article has a picture of an Army Capt with a full beard testing the seal on his gasmask...

http://www.army.mil/article/36339/sikh-soldiers-allowed-to-serve-retain-their-articles-of-faith/

If those two were privates, they would be clean shaven like the rest of us.

sandsjames
09-12-2013, 03:38 PM
Isn't the US one of the few countries that don't allow beards/goaties for the normal serviceman.

Also...raise your hand if you have been gassed during combat in the last 23 years.

I personnaly wouldn't have a beard if it were allowed, but a goat...maybe!

You mean in the last 85 years???

Rusty Jones
09-12-2013, 05:03 PM
The military is full of arbitrary rules. And that's all the "no beards" thing is - an arbitrary rule. You know, since this is the military and the military is supposed to have rules. That's what the "no beards" thing is for.

The gas mask thing is pure BS, as there are firefighters with beards. There are also rules concerning moustaches (the Army and Air Force being the most strict - they can't be wider than your lips; so you end looking like Hitler if you grow one), and moustaches don't even touch where the mask is supposed to seal anyway.

On top of all of this... the way the uniform is worn is modified while you're in combat anyway.

I understand that the different services do their MOPP levels differently, but they could easily make a rule where one is required to shave at one of the MOPP Levels before the mask is work - or immediately upon entering that scenario in the first place.

In the case of the Navy, in a main space fire, it's my understanding that halon can take pretty long before the team enters the space - certainly far longer than what is simulated in the drills - more than enough time to do a quick shave.

Not that it's even necessary in the first place.

meatbringer
09-12-2013, 06:07 PM
I'm glad they don't allow beards. Hell, even I enjoy growing mine out when I'm on leave, but today's airmen would ruin it for everyone else. If they allowed us to grow beards it would take probably all of 5 seconds for some clown to take it too far. Next thing you know, idiots would show up to roll call with those shoelace beards or have their beard shaven into some ridiculous tribal design. Nowadays, you give anyone some privileges and they feel the need to go crazy with it just for the sake of trying to stand out and look cool. When I hung out in USAFE I would see many other services with longer hair and beards. But you know what? They kept it conservative to where it looked professional in their uniform. Today's youth are incapable of doing this.

GoatDriver57
09-12-2013, 06:36 PM
Good post #141 MB, Just one more line item to get out of line because someone would find that loophold. Length, ever man and female has a different length for an inch measurement. , The rainbow ones will try adding color and bows. Bird nest to rats nest. Nasty to see, what one had for eats, sticky stuff, who knows what it is. Biggest problem, odor! A beard should be washed more than hands. Stand in a group of wet Afgans and you would ask the world to band those suckers (beards, that is. {being nice today}).

Rusty Jones
09-12-2013, 07:02 PM
Hey, Goatdriver! I add color and bows to my pubes. Just thought you'd like to know.

Venus
09-12-2013, 07:13 PM
In the AOR away from the diamonds, top 3, and nonners most of the spec ops community sports a beard and long hair, you should work with some of our northern European allies over there.

GoatDriver57
09-12-2013, 07:44 PM
RustyJ, words are cheap, especailly from you. Post pics.

Rusty Jones
09-12-2013, 07:55 PM
RustyJ, words are cheap, especailly from you. Post pics. Give me a few hours. I'm not in a good spot right now, but I'll be inboxing you a picture of my balls soon.

BOSS302
09-12-2013, 08:33 PM
Give me a few hours. I'm not in a good spot right now, but I'll be inboxing you a picture of my balls soon.
http://i.imgur.com/1m175.gif

GoatDriver57
09-12-2013, 09:11 PM
OK, OK RustyJ, system is working great today and I'm not sure our spam protector works that well on an incoming low smut shot. LOL. over;

The Cooler
09-12-2013, 10:53 PM
like a handful of sikh's with beards is really an issue when at LEAST 50% of the black E-5's and below abuse shaving waiver privileges and a smaller but noticeable amount in the grades above that.. at least in the AF, i can't speak for other branches. and that's the most conservative estimate i can give because the numbers are probably substantially higher than that. and no that's not a racist remark just calling it like i see it and like everyone else sees it too. from goatee's to nearly full on beards.. and i see this on the regular.

Z1911
09-13-2013, 12:07 AM
like a handful of sikh's with beards is really an issue when at LEAST 50% of the black E-5's and below abuse shaving waiver privileges and a smaller but noticeable amount in the grades above that.. at least in the AF, i can't speak for other branches. and that's the most conservative estimate i can give because the numbers are probably substantially higher than that. and no that's not a racist remark just calling it like i see it and like everyone else sees it too. from goatee's to nearly full on beards.. and i see this on the regular.

See meatbringer's post #141...Your post validates his post...

BOSS302
09-13-2013, 08:00 AM
like a handful of sikh's with beards is really an issue when at LEAST 50% of the black E-5's and below abuse shaving waiver privileges and a smaller but noticeable amount in the grades above that.. at least in the AF, i can't speak for other branches. and that's the most conservative estimate i can give because the numbers are probably substantially higher than that. and no that's not a racist remark just calling it like i see it and like everyone else sees it too. from goatee's to nearly full on beards.. and i see this on the regular.

Rainmaker

Dass racist, nomsayin?

Rusty Jones
09-13-2013, 10:14 AM
like a handful of sikh's with beards is really an issue when at LEAST 50% of the black E-5's and below abuse shaving waiver privileges and a smaller but noticeable amount in the grades above that.. at least in the AF, i can't speak for other branches. and that's the most conservative estimate i can give because the numbers are probably substantially higher than that. and no that's not a racist remark just calling it like i see it and like everyone else sees it too. from goatee's to nearly full on beards.. and i see this on the regular.

People are going to do whatever they can get away with. The fact that there are people walking around with goatees shows that there is a failure on the part of leadership.

I can't speak for the other services, but I know that in the Navy, there are rules against shaping up your facial hair or lining it up to give a "neat" appearance. The reason for this is because... if you can do these things, then you clearly don't need the no-shave chit. If you can shave some of it off, then you can shave all of it off.

And that gets enforced. If any portion of your facial hair is shaved, it's ALL coming off and you could lose your chit.

The purpose of the no shave chit is to satisfy a medical condition, not look a certain way. That said, those with no shave chits in the Navy may have facial hair; but it's not nice looking facial by a long shot.

BOSS302
09-13-2013, 10:35 AM
People are going to do whatever they can get away with. The fact that there are people walking around with goatees shows that there is a failure on the part of leadership.

I can't speak for the other services, but I know that in the Navy, there are rules against shaping up your facial hair or lining it up to give a "neat" appearance. The reason for this is because... if you can do these things, then you clearly don't need the no-shave chit. If you can shave some of it off, then you can shave all of it of it.

And that gets enforced. If any portion of your facial hair is shaved, it's ALL coming off and you could lose your chit.

The purpose of the no shave chit is to satisfy a medical condition, not look a certain way. That said, those with no shave chits in the Navy may have facial hair; but it's not nice looking facial by a long shot.

A black guy at my first base, when challenged by the NCOIC during the morning meeting on why his "stubble" and sideburns were shaped, tried both the religious & race cards. He was freshly shaved by lunch. His neck area looked like ground beef the next day and he had his shaving waiver re-instated (I assume the CC or someone revoked his), but he never came in to work trying to look like Drake after that episode.

Our NCOIC could have taken the, "Aww shucks hahaha you so silly!" route. Instead he took the path less traveled (Get in standards now!). And it made all the difference.

BRUWIN
09-13-2013, 11:30 AM
Beards are not allowed because it won't allow for a good seal on your gas mask.

USMC0341
09-13-2013, 11:36 AM
Beards are not allowed because it won't allow for a good seal on your gas mask.

also why they don't want fatties anymore, it is hard to get a tight seal when there are mulitple chins to choose form.

BRUWIN
09-13-2013, 11:56 AM
also why they don't want fatties anymore, it is hard to get a tight seal when there are mulitple chins to choose form.

Fat doesn't stop a good seal on a gas mask. If it did 75% of the Army would be dead. Beards affect a good seal on a gas mask.

USMC0341
09-13-2013, 11:59 AM
Fat doesn't stop a good seal on a gas mask. If it did 75% of the Army would be dead. Beards affect a good seal on a gas mask.

what happens when those fatties are in the shit and they start jiggling while advancing to the fight? thats right, one bad jiggle and that seal is history... you ever see an out of breath fattie try and hold his breath while clearing and sealing a mask?! it's not pretty, looks like Will Smith in MIB whne the baby Alien was born

BRUWIN
09-13-2013, 12:15 PM
what happens when those fatties are in the shit and they start jiggling while advancing to the fight? thats right, one bad jiggle and that seal is history... you ever see an out of breath fattie try and hold his breath while clearing and sealing a mask?! it's not pretty, looks like Will Smith in MIB whne the baby Alien was born

I was in the Air Force so I never saw that. That probably happens a lot in the Army and Navy though.

Chief_KO
09-13-2013, 12:25 PM
Sailors aren't fat...they're buoyant...

Rusty Jones
09-13-2013, 12:32 PM
Yet us Sailors aren't the ones with hundreds of threads bitching and moaning about PT. That's all you Airmen!

FLAPS, USAF (ret)
09-13-2013, 12:32 PM
Not only should active duty shave, but they should shave arms and legs too. It will help with PT scores, and PT scores are more important than MC rates.

BRUWIN
09-13-2013, 12:57 PM
Yet us Sailors aren't the ones with hundreds of threads bitching and moaning about PT. That's all you Airmen!

A service bitching about PT while a couple of services are just plain fat are two entirely separate things. Statistically...the Army and Navy are fatter. It's really not a big deal because you guys can still have a good seal on your gas masks.

Rusty Jones
09-13-2013, 12:58 PM
A service bitching about PT while a couple of services are just plain fat are two entirely separate things. Statistically...the Army and Navy are fatter. It's really not a big deal because you guys can still have a good seal on your gas masks.

Where are your stats?

BRUWIN
09-13-2013, 01:00 PM
Where are your stats?

Why my stats? I'm not even in the AF anymore...but I'm still a lot leaner than most Army or Navy guys...with the exception of maybe some of the special forces.

SomeRandomGuy
09-13-2013, 01:01 PM
Where are your stats?

No stats needed. This proves it

http://whyareyousofat.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/military-pizza1.jpg?w=500

BRUWIN
09-13-2013, 01:06 PM
No stats needed. This proves it

http://whyareyousofat.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/military-pizza1.jpg?w=500

I'm sure some Army guy will chime in soon with "but he's a reservist!!!" without any knowledge of whether he actually is. And like it matters anyway. But the guy in the image looks like a cross fit guru compared to some of the Navy guys I've run into in the past. He might be Navy since they wear Army uniforms in the theater and they always wear those silly booney hats with it.

Rusty Jones
09-13-2013, 01:19 PM
Why my stats? I'm not even in the AF anymore...but I'm still a lot leaner than most Army or Navy guys...with the exception of maybe some of the special forces.

That's what I thought.

Rusty Jones
09-13-2013, 01:26 PM
The Navy was probably at its fattest between 2002-2006, when they didn't kick out the PRT failures - and it still wasn't that bad. The whole time I've been in, I've only seen ONE person that looked like the guy in the pic; and it wasn't a reflection of the Navy tolerating this... the guy I'm talking about was a Chief, and it was a reflection of the corrupt mafia-like CPO Mess.

BRUWIN
09-13-2013, 01:34 PM
The Navy was probably at its fattest between 2002-2006, when they didn't kick out the PRT failures - and it still wasn't that bad. The whole time I've been in, I've only seen ONE person that looked like the guy in the pic; and it wasn't a reflection of the Navy tolerating this... the guy I'm talking about was a Chief, and it was a reflection of the corrupt mafia-like CPO Mess.

Last time I was deployed we had a bunch of Navy with us. I thought I was at a Sumo convention.

And I'm almost 2 years retired from the Air Force so I don't see where my stats belong on this because I'm not in anymore. However, I'm about 30 pounds heavier than when I left and I'm at 5'11, 210 pounds at 50 years old. I would be a chick magnet in the Navy.

Rusty Jones
09-13-2013, 01:40 PM
Last time I was deployed we had a bunch of Navy with us. I thought I was at a Sumo convention.

And I'm almost 2 years retired from the Air Force so I don't see where my stats belong on this because I'm not in anymore. However, I'm about 30 pounds heavier than when I left and I'm at 5'11, 210 pounds at 50 years old. I would be a chick magnet in the Navy.

That's funny, because I was stationed at Fort Sam Houston, but lived 10 minutes away from Lackland. Even some of your TIs, of all people, were a bunch of fatbodies. And these are the very people who are supposed to PT your recruits!

You mentioned stats, yet you couldn't produce. Right now, this is simply going to be a battle of anecdotes. You wanna do this? Let's go. I've got plenty more.

Rusty Jones
09-13-2013, 01:47 PM
http://images.military.com/pics/af-lose-weight-2.jpg

I'm not sure it's gonna be enough for this guy!

meatbringer
09-13-2013, 03:46 PM
like a handful of sikh's with beards is really an issue when at LEAST 50% of the black E-5's and below abuse shaving waiver privileges and a smaller but noticeable amount in the grades above that.. at least in the AF, i can't speak for other branches. and that's the most conservative estimate i can give because the numbers are probably substantially higher than that. and no that's not a racist remark just calling it like i see it and like everyone else sees it too. from goatee's to nearly full on beards.. and i see this on the regular.

That's why it's up to the supervisor or NCO to call out those clowns. If you see someone with a goatee, they are wrong. It has to be all or nothing according to 2903. They can't alter it.

imported_UncommonSense
09-13-2013, 03:51 PM
Not only should active duty shave, but they should shave arms and legs too. It will help with PT scores, and PT scores are more important than MC rates.

PT scores directly relate to MC rates because, as we know, if we don't take care of the little things, jets start falling from the skies and the terrorists win.

Juggs
09-13-2013, 04:23 PM
The Navy was probably at its fattest between 2002-2006, when they didn't kick out the PRT failures - and it still wasn't that bad. The whole time I've been in, I've only seen ONE person that looked like the guy in the pic; and it wasn't a reflection of the Navy tolerating this... the guy I'm talking about was a Chief, and it was a reflection of the corrupt mafia-like CPO Mess.

I saw plenty of fatties on ford island and Whidbey island. The AF and Navy are fat neck and fat neck with the fatties. The AF and Navy slinging mud about who is fattest is the usual pot calling the kettle black. (No racial intent)

Juggs
09-13-2013, 04:24 PM
That's why it's up to the supervisor or NCO to call out those clowns. If you see someone with a goatee, they are wrong. It has to be all or nothing according to 2903. They can't alter it.

If you call somebody out they scream that you're a racist and go to MEO and your in parade rest getting lit up by the man. It's pathetic you can't call a duck a duck in the AF.

Pullinteeth
09-13-2013, 04:52 PM
Not only should active duty shave, but they should shave arms and legs too. It will help with PT scores, and PT scores are more important than MC rates.

Women can be required to shave their legs...it was added to the AFI. But they can also let their beards grow...

Rusty Jones
09-13-2013, 05:08 PM
If you call somebody out they scream that you're a racist and go to MEO and your in parade rest getting lit up by the man. It's pathetic you can't call a duck a duck in the AF.

I really don't know where people are seeing this. I've only seen someone "play the race card" (at least black on white) once in my career, and it was while I was a classifier at the MEPS. A black female applicant tried this when my LCPO couldn't make her a Hospital Corpsmen, so he sent her to my desk so she could hear it from me. I took over from there.

Seriously, if you're that uncomfortable confronting someone of another race concerning grooming standards; then you can easily grab someone from your shop who is of the same race as, but senior to, the person who is in violation of the regulations and have them in the room with you as you do the counseling session.

I'm not saying that you should have to do it. But I really do think that there's more fear of someone "playing the race" than what's actually there.

Juggs
09-13-2013, 07:21 PM
I really don't know where people are seeing this. I've only seen someone "play the race card" (at least black on white) once in my career, and it was while I was a classifier at the MEPS. A black female applicant tried this when my LCPO couldn't make her a Hospital Corpsmen, so he sent her to my desk so she could hear it from me. I took over from there.

Seriously, if you're that uncomfortable confronting someone of another race concerning grooming standards; then you can easily grab someone from your shop who is of the same race as, but senior to, the person who is in violation of the regulations and have them in the room with you as you do the counseling session.

I'm not saying that you should have to do it. But I really do think that there's more fear of someone "playing the race" than what's actually there.

I've seen it happen on a couple occasions, not many though. Also I can count the number of black people in my old AFSC on just both hands so its tough to have one go talk to the other one when we generally have one per unit. That sounds bad, ut it's true.

Smeghead
09-13-2013, 08:49 PM
http://images.military.com/pics/af-lose-weight-2.jpg

I'm not sure it's gonna be enough for this guy!

Wow, you're really getting this butthurt because someone called your service fat?

BRUWIN
09-13-2013, 11:53 PM
http://images.military.com/pics/af-lose-weight-2.jpg

I'm not sure it's gonna be enough for this guy!

He's nothing close too a Navy guy...even when wearing body armor. Go eat a HoHo.

Rusty Jones
09-14-2013, 01:08 AM
Wow, you're really getting this butthurt because someone called your service fat?

If you were observant, you'd see that there's a mutual back and forth going on.

Rusty Jones
09-14-2013, 01:17 AM
He's nothing close too a Navy guy.

Yeah, he really is that big, isn't he?


Go eat a HoHo.

Why? So I can look like an Airman?

The Cooler
09-14-2013, 01:21 AM
i think the issue is with shaving waivers in general.. it seems like there's wayyy too many issued. those who really need them you can tell just by looking under their chin. i get it, some peoples faces get really jacked from shaving. to be fair, the primary reason there's more questionable black shaving waiver practices is because there's a lot more black airmen with shaving waivers than other races.. i'm not sure why that is, but i'm not a doctor so whatever. as far as calling people of other races out.. i'll agree with rusty i haven't really seen the race card being pulled much at all other than in a joking manner. i'm not saying it doesn't happen but i personally haven't witnessed it too frequently.

BRUWIN
09-14-2013, 02:52 PM
Yeah, he really is that big, isn't he?



Why? So I can look like an Airman?

In all seriousness...I've heard of issues of subs getting back up to the surface because there were too many fat sailors on board. The Navy doesn't publicize it obviously but I have heard of it.

BRUWIN
09-14-2013, 03:13 PM
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_fECXhtX6uh0/TTbnKrqaNGI/AAAAAAAADMw/p7wKXcIPB7Y/s1600/PRT+Standards.jpg

He's one of the thinner Navy guys you'll see.

imported_StandardsAMust
09-15-2013, 06:59 AM
He's one of the thinner Navy guys you'll see.

I thought that was Gen Breedlove for a second. Then I realized that guy looked in shape.

Gonzo432
09-15-2013, 11:06 AM
I thought that was Gen Breedlove for a second. Then I realized that guy looked in shape.

:firedevil: BURN!!!!

efmbman
09-15-2013, 11:28 AM
Somehow a question about beards devolved into a discussion about which service is fatter... and I found this article:

http://www.stripes.com/news/navy/commander-aboard-navy-hospital-ship-relieved-of-duty-accused-of-false-fitness-report-1.241189

Either 1) the Navy will fire a commander that falsifies physical fitness reports...
OR..... 2) the Navy has such a systemic problem commanders must falsify physical readiness reports.

Most likely this is a single event and not indicative of the entire force, or is it?

RetC141BFCC
09-15-2013, 01:34 PM
Wearing moustaches in the military is the result of military members desperately holding on to the only piece of facial hair that they're allowed to have.

Civilians have stopped wearing moustaches well over 20 years ago. Even Burt Reynolds no longer wears one. You won't see any moustaches at a Hall & Oates concert either. All that's left from the 80's still sporting the 'stache is Ron Jeremy and Sean Connery.

I say just let it go and shave off the moustache. Because it just looks totally stupid on some 25 year old wearing a button-down shirt with boot cut jeans and square toed shoes.


You Forgot Jeff Foxworthy

TiggerBlueDevil
09-15-2013, 03:32 PM
You Forgot Jeff Foxworthy

Obviously none of you are female. :) You completely overlooked Tom Selleck - hot in any amount of facial hair. :friday:

UncaRastus
09-15-2013, 04:32 PM
No one in the service takes any order as to grooming so seriously as it isn't abused. I recall how some (most) of the black guys within my squad bay (barracks room) would take to packing their way too long hair down by wearing a pantyhose during the night time hours, when they went to bed, so that their hair looked as if it fit neatly very neatly into the grooming standards for Marines. The few hours of liberty, and out came the hair picks, and there were some mighty fine afros to behold.

Back then, a squadbay overseas held many many many Marines. The one that I am talking about had 36 Marines in that room. There were 4 black guys in that squadbay, and 3 of them did the 'packing' thing.

If anyone wants to sport a beard, as to beards being curly, they will likely be packed by many of the guys, if beard wearing is to be implemented. It only takes a few people that want to fool the people in charge for a Beards R Us policy to be revoked.

The main reason for no beards, at least back then (besides having lazy guys not caring about them having neckbeards), was not only to have everybody being standardized, but because of the fact that beards, just like hair, are prone to being lousy, especially for those that are out for long periods of time on patrol. Lice are very easily spreadable, by men being in very close contact with other men.

As to the reason for blacks having skin problems due to shaving is called pseudofolliculitis. I am not sure about now, but back then, if a Marine couldn't shave due to that, he was not allowed to reenlist.

I did have a few gas masks in my home. I did find that getting my very long beard to not interfere with the sealing was a problem.

Finally, why not let the members of the armed forces have long hair, piercings, beards, wear love beads, talk back to their superiors, take days off whenever they want, and to have a vote in whether or not a war is something to their liking? Don't forget about allowing them to use drugs when ever they want to!

Once any of you have taken the oath and has been moved onto recruit training, the old life style is over. If you don't like having to abide by rules set down by those above you in rank, you should never have entered into the armed forces in the first place. The military is a separate place for those that can and do take orders. For those that can abide by rules sent down from on high. All of you knew the rules from the first day in, on grooming standards.

Capt Alfredo
09-15-2013, 08:59 PM
No one in the service takes any order as to grooming so seriously as it isn't abused. I recall how some (most) of the black guys within my squad bay (barracks room) would take to packing their way too long hair down by wearing a pantyhose during the night time hours, when they went to bed, so that their hair looked as if it fit neatly very neatly into the grooming standards for Marines. The few hours of liberty, and out came the hair picks, and there were some mighty fine afros to behold.

Back then, a squadbay overseas held many many many Marines. The one that I am talking about had 36 Marines in that room. There were 4 black guys in that squadbay, and 3 of them did the 'packing' thing.

If anyone wants to sport a beard, as to beards being curly, they will likely be packed by many of the guys, if beard wearing is to be implemented. It only takes a few people that want to fool the people in charge for a Beards R Us policy to be revoked.

The main reason for no beards, at least back then (besides having lazy guys not caring about them having neckbeards), was not only to have everybody being standardized, but because of the fact that beards, just like hair, are prone to being lousy, especially for those that are out for long periods of time on patrol. Lice are very easily spreadable, by men being in very close contact with other men.

As to the reason for blacks having skin problems due to shaving is called pseudofolliculitis. I am not sure about now, but back then, if a Marine couldn't shave due to that, he was not allowed to reenlist.

I did have a few gas masks in my home. I did find that getting my very long beard to not interfere with the sealing was a problem.

Finally, why not let the members of the armed forces have long hair, piercings, beards, wear love beads, talk back to their superiors, take days off whenever they want, and to have a vote in whether or not a war is something to their liking? Don't forget about allowing them to use drugs when ever they want to!

Once any of you have taken the oath and has been moved onto recruit training, the old life style is over. If you don't like having to abide by rules set down by those above you in rank, you should never have entered into the armed forces in the first place. The military is a separate place for those that can and do take orders. For those that can abide by rules sent down from on high. All of you knew the rules from the first day in, on grooming standards.

Well, that was certainly stream-of-consciousness. Just to pick one nit (ha ha), if lice were a problem, they would start shaving the women, too. So to speak.

UncaRastus
09-15-2013, 11:42 PM
Womens is special!

Capt Alfredo
09-16-2013, 02:13 AM
Womens is special!

What, they let rainmaker have an alt account and it's a moderator, to boot?

Absinthe Anecdote
09-16-2013, 07:19 AM
No one in the service takes any order as to grooming so seriously as it isn't abused. I recall how some (most) of the black guys within my squad bay (barracks room) would take to packing their way too long hair down by wearing a pantyhose during the night time hours, when they went to bed, so that their hair looked as if it fit neatly very neatly into the grooming standards for Marines. The few hours of liberty, and out came the hair picks, and there were some mighty fine afros to behold.

Back then, a squadbay overseas held many many many Marines. The one that I am talking about had 36 Marines in that room. There were 4 black guys in that squadbay, and 3 of them did the 'packing' thing.

If anyone wants to sport a beard, as to beards being curly, they will likely be packed by many of the guys, if beard wearing is to be implemented. It only takes a few people that want to fool the people in charge for a Beards R Us policy to be revoked.

The main reason for no beards, at least back then (besides having lazy guys not caring about them having neckbeards), was not only to have everybody being standardized, but because of the fact that beards, just like hair, are prone to being lousy, especially for those that are out for long periods of time on patrol. Lice are very easily spreadable, by men being in very close contact with other men.

As to the reason for blacks having skin problems due to shaving is called pseudofolliculitis. I am not sure about now, but back then, if a Marine couldn't shave due to that, he was not allowed to reenlist.

I did have a few gas masks in my home. I did find that getting my very long beard to not interfere with the sealing was a problem.

Finally, why not let the members of the armed forces have long hair, piercings, beards, wear love beads, talk back to their superiors, take days off whenever they want, and to have a vote in whether or not a war is something to their liking? Don't forget about allowing them to use drugs when ever they want to!

Once any of you have taken the oath and has been moved onto recruit training, the old life style is over. If you don't like having to abide by rules set down by those above you in rank, you should never have entered into the armed forces in the first place. The military is a separate place for those that can and do take orders. For those that can abide by rules sent down from on high. All of you knew the rules from the first day in, on grooming standards.

We can't bust heads like we used to. But we have our ways. One trick is to tell stories that don't go anywhere. Like the time I caught the ferry to Shelbyville. I needed a new heel for m'shoe.

So I decided to go to Morganville, which is what they called Shelbyville in those days. So I tied an onion to my belt. Which was the style at the time. Now, to take the ferry cost a nickel, and in those days, nickels had pictures of bumblebees on 'em. Gimme five bees for a quarter, you'd say.

Now where was I... oh yeah. The important thing was that I had an onion tied to my belt, which was the style at the time. You couldn't get white onions, because of the war. The only thing you could get was those big yellow ones...

Pullinteeth
09-16-2013, 12:31 PM
Somehow a question about beards devolved into a discussion about which service is fatter... and I found this article:

http://www.stripes.com/news/navy/commander-aboard-navy-hospital-ship-relieved-of-duty-accused-of-false-fitness-report-1.241189

Either 1) the Navy will fire a commander that falsifies physical fitness reports...
OR..... 2) the Navy has such a systemic problem commanders must falsify physical readiness reports.

Most likely this is a single event and not indicative of the entire force, or is it?

You must have missed this line

"Other members of the unit also were reviewed for similar violations and “held accountable” but were not identified by the Navy."

We all know personal stories are the best way to prove something so... As someone that was stationed in Germany after the seamen were kicked out of Italy for killing all those people in that gondola when showing off (though the aircrew was a couple of marines). The dudes looked pretty much like the Airmen in the club but the females? Holy shit! It was like they brought back whaling. In New Orleans....there were some GIGANTIC seamen-male and female. Pensacola? Didn't see too many that were large and in-charge though when the navy came out with the new Navy Service uniform, there were a couple that looked like tweedle dee and tweedle dum....

Smeghead
09-16-2013, 01:45 PM
Like it's not bad enough we have to put up with the mods' jackbooted banning sprees, now we have to listen as they regale us with tales of their bygone eras? Afros? Seriously?

efmbman
09-16-2013, 02:56 PM
You must have missed this line

"Other members of the unit also were reviewed for similar violations and “held accountable” but were not identified by the Navy."

Nope, I did not miss that.