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StephenH
10-28-2009, 06:35 PM
Any other smokers tired of the questions we are being asked at medical appt/ dental appts? I personally don't think it is any of the dental tech/dentist/doctor's business if I smoke, how much I smoke, or if I plan to quit. Smoking suits me for now and I will quit when ready.

Anymore I just make up random answers to their prying questions...

"Do you smoke?"
"Yeah."
"How much per day?"
"Alot."
"Really? Do you plan on quiting?"
"No."
"Well ok then.."

imported_Seasons
10-28-2009, 06:52 PM
Maybe because it can be used as an explanation for what they find, ya think?

Michaep
10-28-2009, 07:04 PM
Any other smokers tired of the questions we are being asked at medical appt/ dental appts? I personally don't think it is any of the dental tech/dentist/doctor's business if I smoke, how much I smoke, or if I plan to quit. Smoking suits me for now and I will quit when ready.

Anymore I just make up random answers to their prying questions...

"Do you smoke?"
"Yeah."
"How much per day?"
"Alot."
"Really? Do you plan on quiting?"
"No."
"Well ok then.."

pssst.....smoking is DIRECTLY related to your MEDICAL health.....maybe thats the reason??!?? just sayin

StephenH
10-28-2009, 07:05 PM
Maybe because it can be used as an explanation for what they find, ya think?

What they find? I go there because I'm told to go there. I am quite aware of the health risks involved.

I think there is more to it.

StephenH
10-28-2009, 07:09 PM
pssst.....smoking is DIRECTLY related to your MEDICAL health.....maybe thats the reason??!?? just sayin

After, I'd venture to say, hundreds of such conversations with a healthcare provider, I'm pretty sure my smoking is well documented in my record.

Michaep
10-28-2009, 07:10 PM
What they find? I go there because I'm told to go there. I am quite aware of the health risks involved.

I think there is more to it.

Call Mel Gibson...

...Do you always feel the urge to purchase "Catcher in the rye"?

Its definitely a conspiracy

If you wake up drugged and see only smoke stacks, then gimme a call :) I'll know where to come rescue you

StephenH
10-28-2009, 07:16 PM
Call Mel Gibson...

...Do you always feel the urge to purchase "Catcher in the rye"?

Its definitely a conspiracy

If you wake up drugged and see only smoke stacks, then gimme a call :) I'll know where to come rescue you

Shoo non-smoker.

Shaken1976
10-28-2009, 07:25 PM
Maybe it is so when you come down with lung cancer or some other smoking related disease they can do a LOD on you can deny your medical coverage. Maybe it is so when the military bans smoking completely they know who to check on to see if they are smoking. Maybe it is so they can give you substandard care because you are gonna die anyway. And maybe you should just answer the few questions because it takes about 30 seconds and deal with it. Or you could quit smoking.

Yes I am a non smoker.

imported_UncommonSense
10-28-2009, 07:39 PM
When I was a smoker, I asked my provider why I keep getting harrased. It's because it is required by the AF tobacco use AFI.

smarg
10-28-2009, 07:46 PM
Steve,

Don't know if anyone has ever been completely honest with you, but smoking and smokers STINK!!!

Their breath stinks, their clothes stink, their bodies excrete a smoky sweat stink, their budget for paying $5 a pack stinks, their second-hand smoke that non-smokers breathe stinks, their ashtrays stink, their smoking areas stink, their houses stink, their cars stink, their yellow tobacco-stained teeth stink, their diminished lung capacity stinks, and finally, the money that taxpayers have to fork out to pay for increased medical costs due to smoking stinks.

Any stinking questions? :D

SailorDave
10-28-2009, 07:48 PM
Not just AF. All of the services medical teams do it as part of triage. If you have an abnormal reading on your blood pressure or some other vital sign, they have an idea of what may be causing it. I don't smoke, and get asked the same questions.

Even when it's documented in your record, you could quit or start since the last time you were seen. So they ask. As military health care professionals, they are compelled to try and keep you as healthy as possible for your military duty.

They're no more harrassing you that the dental tech is for asking if you brush or floss when they've got their hands in your mouth. Just let them do their job and quit feeling like someone's persecuting you.

Gunner7
10-28-2009, 08:22 PM
Not just AF. All of the services medical teams do it as part of triage. If you have an abnormal reading on your blood pressure or some other vital sign, they have an idea of what may be causing it. I don't smoke, and get asked the same questions.

Even when it's documented in your record, you could quit or start since the last time you were seen. So they ask. As military health care professionals, they are compelled to try and keep you as healthy as possible for your military duty.

They're no more harrassing you that the dental tech is for asking if you brush or floss when they've got their hands in your mouth. Just let them do their job and quit feeling like someone's persecuting you.

Yes, God knows its important for me to be in peak shape when I jump on a forty year old plane a fire a fucking connon out the side of it. Guess I could go for a quick run around the burn pit on my downtime. I certainly hope if they offer this level of concern for those morbidly obese dependaphants lurking in the hospital all day.

SailorDave
10-28-2009, 08:28 PM
Yes, God knows its important for me to be in peak shape when I jump on a forty year old plane a fire a fucking connon out the side of it. Guess I could go for a quick run around the burn pit on my downtime. I certainly hope if they offer this level of concern for those morbidly obese dependaphants lurking in the hospital all day.

I'll bet if that 40 year old plane drops out of the sky and you survive, you'll be glad you have the stamina and endurance to walk the who knows how far to get back to friendly territory. You might just live to regret a smoking habit (if you have one). I know that if I'm in the plane with some lardass who has barely been getting by on their PT and/or a heavy smoker with no lung capacity, I don't want to have to drag his/her fat ass to safety. But I'll wear myself out trying.

Gunner7
10-28-2009, 08:43 PM
I'll bet if that 40 year old plane drops out of the sky and you survive, you'll be glad you have the stamina and endurance to walk the who knows how far to get back to friendly territory. You might just live to regret a smoking habit (if you have one). I know that if I'm in the plane with some lardass who has barely been getting by on their PT and/or a heavy smoker with no lung capacity, I don't want to have to drag his/her fat ass to safety. But I'll wear myself out trying.

Good point, have you noticed a lot of smokers are thinner than the non smokers? Maybe we should encourage it in basic.

SailorDave
10-28-2009, 08:45 PM
Good point, have you noticed a lot of smokers are thinner than the non smokers? Maybe we should encourage it in basic.

Thinner, yes. More capable, no. While I may have an easier time carrying you to safety, I'd just as soon you be able to make it on your own. And, barring significant injury, I need you to have the capability to keep up with me while I'm hightailing my ass to safety.

Gunner7
10-28-2009, 08:51 PM
Thinner, yes. More capable, no. While I may have an easier time carrying you to safety, I'd just as soon you be able to make it on your own. And, barring significant injury, I need you to have the capability to keep up with me while I'm hightailing my ass to safety.

So based on the fact that I smoke you can conclude that I am overweight and out of shape? Your Jedi powers are off a bit I think.

chucksnee
10-28-2009, 08:52 PM
I know this is just an instance....but one of the fastest runners I have known smoked more than a pack a day and could run 2 miles in just over 11 minutes.....

SailorDave
10-28-2009, 08:56 PM
So based on the fact that I smoke you can conclude that I am overweight and out of shape? Your Jedi powers are off a bit I think.

Never said you were. What I mean to say is that I'd prefer you not have any self-imposed diminished capacity. If your smoking doesn't have any detrimental effect on your health, good on you. Can you say that about a majority of smokers ?? Judging from just my own experience, I've found that smokers and also heavy drinkers are at much greater risk of having a health problem that could lead them to be a hazard to themselves or others in an emergency situation.

technomage1
10-28-2009, 08:56 PM
Everyone gets asked the same questions, it's just if you answer yes then they ask you more. It's so that they can determine your overall health, also so that they can determine what may be wrong with you and/or what types of meds you can take. It's no different than the alcohol questions.

imported_BRAVO10000
10-28-2009, 08:57 PM
Steve,

Don't know if anyone has ever been completely honest with you, but smoking and smokers STINK!!!

Their breath stinks, their clothes stink, their bodies excrete a smoky sweat stink, their budget for paying $5 a pack stinks, their second-hand smoke that non-smokers breathe stinks, their ashtrays stink, their smoking areas stink, their houses stink, their cars stink, their yellow tobacco-stained teeth stink, their diminished lung capacity stinks, and finally, the money that taxpayers have to fork out to pay for increased medical costs due to smoking stinks.

Any stinking questions? :D

No - just a big fat question...pun intended.

If we're going to start whining about paying for smokers' health care, then let's get all the fried food off base, clear the commissaries of bakeries and the candy bar isle and make shop snack bars punishable under the UCMJ. Likewise for Power Bars, Monsters and "Weight Gain 4000". Shut down the Class VI too. Note that besides asking about supplements, the doc doesn't ask about diet even if you still have a peanut stuck to your chin from the Snickers bar you ate on the way to the clinic.

Healthy people live a lot longer, and it has been mathematically proven that they cost more to the taxpayer based on that longer life. So do the responsible thing, health nut, and die before you get old and cost me a fortune...besides, you smell of tofu and cabbage. :cool:

Seriously, people need to mind their own business. If we pass the same PT test, then we have the same capabilities...right? :) Yes, smoking kills. We all know it. So does cirrhosis from drinking, high cholesterol and/or sodium from a poor on-the-run diet, skin cancer from years of exposure in the desert...and I don't see us making a step to infringe on your right to drink, eat fast food or even issue friggin sunscreen.

imported_Sgt HULK
10-28-2009, 09:19 PM
Steve,

Don't know if anyone has ever been completely honest with you, but smoking and smokers STINK!!!

Their breath stinks, their clothes stink, their bodies excrete a smoky sweat stink, their budget for paying $5 a pack stinks, their second-hand smoke that non-smokers breathe stinks, their ashtrays stink, their smoking areas stink, their houses stink, their cars stink, their yellow tobacco-stained teeth stink, their diminished lung capacity stinks, and finally, the money that taxpayers have to fork out to pay for increased medical costs due to smoking stinks.

Any stinking questions? :D

this


i loved when the young guys on my shift would ask me to go on a smoke break and id tell them no lol

Measure Man
10-28-2009, 09:39 PM
Any other smokers tired of the questions we are being asked at medical appt/ dental appts? I personally don't think it is any of the dental tech/dentist/doctor's business if I smoke, how much I smoke, or if I plan to quit. Smoking suits me for now and I will quit when ready.

Anymore I just make up random answers to their prying questions...

"Do you smoke?"
"Yeah."
"How much per day?"
"Alot."
"Really? Do you plan on quiting?"
"No."
"Well ok then.."

It's so they can collect stats to make a nice powerpoint presentation.

That way...anything they find with you is "smoking related"...soon, all injuries and diseases will be labeled as "smoking related"

The do the same thing with every mishap...ask specifically whether any alcohol was within 50 feet of the mishap so they can label it "alcohol-related"

alaskaresident
10-28-2009, 09:52 PM
I personaly do not like the smell of after hand smoke, nor do I smoke. I have a friend who smokes roughly half a pack to a pack a day in her car and sometimes in her house. I have yet to smell cigerette smoke in her car or house. Her teeth are brittiantly white, she's never had a cavity or any other dental related problems. My dad has smoked for 50+ years and has yet had any adverse reactions to his tabacco habit. His teeth aren't the worlds best looking but he also seldomly brushes. My grandpa smoked all his life and lived to be a week shy of 100 and died naturally in his sleep, never broke a bone, never had to have surgery on anything, still had all his teeth and was still driving a car. He was the picture of health. I think tabacco effects everyone differently and those that know how to take care of themselves will be just fine. Not everyone that smokes stinks. Just because my dad and grandpa have had good luck with the family genes does not mean I am going to pick up the habit. Mainly because like I said earlier I do not like the smell of second hand smoke.

BigBaze
10-28-2009, 10:12 PM
Steve,

Don't know if anyone has ever been completely honest with you, but smoking and smokers STINK!!!

Their breath stinks, their clothes stink, their bodies excrete a smoky sweat stink, their budget for paying $5 a pack stinks, their second-hand smoke that non-smokers breathe stinks, their ashtrays stink, their smoking areas stink, their houses stink, their cars stink, their yellow tobacco-stained teeth stink, their diminished lung capacity stinks, and finally, the money that taxpayers have to fork out to pay for increased medical costs due to smoking stinks.

Any stinking questions? :D


NONE!:) don't forget those people that can't wait 10 minutes to have a smoke and have to roll down the window of a car in subzero weather and freeze everyone else's asses off just to have a smoke.

Eastwood
10-29-2009, 12:02 AM
I used to be a smoker. I'm glad I quit. It all comes down to money. Medical care is the largest expenditure in the DOD. It's just a matter of time until smoking will be considered a "pre-Existing" condition upon enlistment. Also, suspected smoking will be documented in your records, just as suspected drinking is today.

The culture will change just like with drinking in the 1990's.

BIGGUNS85
10-29-2009, 12:46 AM
I've always loved the ex-smoker who bitches at the dippers for spitting in the garbage, and soon after are spitting a pack of gum and sunflower seeds in the same trash can.

I really do hope that oneday everyone will quit smoking, that way the gov't will no longer reap the benefits of profitting bigtime off of tobacco, and all the other crud people stuff in their pie holes will be overtaxed..

jc1988
10-29-2009, 06:32 AM
Steve,

Don't know if anyone has ever been completely honest with you, but smoking and smokers STINK!!!

Their breath stinks, their clothes stink, their bodies excrete a smoky sweat stink, their budget for paying $5 a pack stinks, their second-hand smoke that non-smokers breathe stinks, their ashtrays stink, their smoking areas stink, their houses stink, their cars stink, their yellow tobacco-stained teeth stink, their diminished lung capacity stinks, and finally, the money that taxpayers have to fork out to pay for increased medical costs due to smoking stinks.

Any stinking questions? :D

hmm well that could deffinitly be construed as racism. if not Racism a statement that a EO rep needs to be brought up on. your generalizing a group of people, say you said those same lines but instead of the word smokers inserted a racial orgin, relgion, gender, blondes, redheads, brunettes, ect. the reason why i smoke is to deal with hatemongers like you. and because you sound like a woman.

DHarris75
10-29-2009, 07:30 AM
Smokers are not a protected group. Smoking is an action...a choice. One that can harm you. Yes - alcohol can harm you also. If I suspect someone is an alcoholic, I investigate to see if they need to go to rehab. If you are addicted to drugs, you go to rehab. If you are addicted to gambling, you go to counselling.

If you are addicted to something that harms you, and that something has control over your life, than you have a serious problem. To say otherwise is just false rationalization.

My parents both smoke. I grew up with it. There was no concern at all for second hand smoke - me and my sister in the back of the car literally suffering - covering our noses with our shirts. They have tried over and over to quit and just can't - they give up. Cigs have control over their life. It dictates their actions every day...every few moments they have to have that fix.

My mom is only 54, and she looks much older. She always gets sick and misses work. And the cost is enormous. My dad lost his job and I helped keep them afloat to keep their house for a few months before landing another job - and part of their budget of necessities was cigs ($250+ every 2 weeks).

Smokers do stink. You can cover it up...but I can still tell if you've had a cig recently. I hate the ones that don't even try to cover it up. THey walk by me in the office after coming inside and it's just foul. I had one smoker come to me and wanted to me to talk to his troop about his smell...said he doesn't take baths very often. I said seriously...you just smoked 2 cigs at the smoke pit and smell like an ash tray and you want me to talk to your Amn about laundry and baths?

You can try to tell yourself that smoking isn't as bad for you as docs say. You can say that all that wonderful smoke you are putting into your lungs is not harmful...you can say that "I can run 9:30 and I smoke a pack a day"...and that may be true. But that doesn't mean you are healthy. That doesn't mean you aren't harming your body with every cig you smoke.

My parents tell me the same thing - I'll quit when I wan to quit. So the multiple times of trying and failing have been because you "wanted" to fail? No, cigs are addictive and have control over their user. And yes - the AF is all about telling me I have to have a 35-39 inch waist and I can't eat the bag of m&ms even if I can run a 11:00...all the while the PTL is puffing away - I think that is sending conflicting messages.

imported_Steveo16220
10-29-2009, 08:46 AM
My old supervisor warned me about folks like you. He said: "Every unit has one"

DHarris75
10-29-2009, 10:45 AM
My old supervisor warned me about folks like you. He said: "Every unit has one"

Yup, I guess you found me. I wear an anti-smoking button too and hang out the smoke pit with a picket sign.

I wrote a response to a message board and the time it took me to write it was the amount of time I have thought about this problem in a loooong time. It's not on my personal agenda. I don't care what you do - I care about what I do and what my family does.

But it is what I think.

golfer55
10-29-2009, 12:19 PM
Steve,

Don't know if anyone has ever been completely honest with you, but smoking and smokers STINK!!!

Their breath stinks, their clothes stink, their bodies excrete a smoky sweat stink, their budget for paying $5 a pack stinks, their second-hand smoke that non-smokers breathe stinks, their ashtrays stink, their smoking areas stink, their houses stink, their cars stink, their yellow tobacco-stained teeth stink, their diminished lung capacity stinks, and finally, the money that taxpayers have to fork out to pay for increased medical costs due to smoking stinks.

Any stinking questions? :D

Fuckin' A smarg...bullseye!

fufu
10-29-2009, 01:18 PM
Not a smoker here, but I was at one point.

They should harass the people at Burger King during lunch.....that affects health too.

goody722
10-29-2009, 02:29 PM
The only reasons non-smokers bitch is that they don't want to smell smoke (or you) after you have one, and don't like the fact that when you go out for a smoke break, they are stuck working. It's justified. But on the other end, I wish smoking would come back. Bring it back to the office desk. Productivity would be up, more shit would get done....but thats just me. I love smokers and non-smokers alike. I'll be courteous, but for the love of fuck dont blow it out of proportion or tell me that im killing myself. I know this. Theres at least 3-5 commercials a day that tell me this. At the end of the day.....I like this addage. "Yeah I'm a smoker. Yeah youre a health nut. Thats fine. When youre running tomorrow and get hit by the 350lb fatass driving their Geo Metro while they eat and talk on their phone, I'll still be alive......smoking."

BRUWIN
10-29-2009, 03:30 PM
I got started smoking in basic training. It used to be the Air Force encouraged it at that time. You could leave the formation to smoke if you had them. Everybody else had to stand at parade rest and wait for the smokers to get done bsing. I was four weeks into basic before I finally got fed up with that. So I blame the Air Force that I smoke. But I don't stink. I keep a bottle of Old Spice (economy size) in my desk drawer that takes care of that and ladies are always mulling around my desk as a result. You younger guys should try the stuff....it's amazing stuff for what you pay for a bottle.

Shaken1976
10-29-2009, 03:45 PM
I got started smoking in basic training. It used to be the Air Force encouraged it at that time. You could leave the formation to smoke if you had them. Everybody else had to stand at parade rest and wait for the smokers to get done bsing. I was four weeks into basic before I finally got fed up with that. So I blame the Air Force that I smoke. But I don't stink. I keep a bottle of Old Spice (economy size) in my desk drawer that takes care of that and ladies are always mulling around my desk as a result. You younger guys should try the stuff....it's amazing stuff for what you pay for a bottle.

My old man wore Old Spice. He always smelled like Old Spice, Camels, and Old Milwaukee.

imported_kvnhlstd
10-29-2009, 03:48 PM
My old man wore Old Spice. He always smelled like Old Spice, Camels, and Old Milwaukee.

Your dad was a camel herder????

Shaken1976
10-29-2009, 03:56 PM
Your dad was a camel herder????

Yup.... He herded Camel Cigs to his mouth. He smoked 2 packs a day. He died of lung cancer at 46. My younger sister was 10 when he died. She smokes. Which I think is completely stupid. She has already had all kinds of dental issues and gets sick all the time. Hmmm,

BRUWIN
10-29-2009, 04:07 PM
My old man wore Old Spice. He always smelled like Old Spice, Camels, and Old Milwaukee.

I don't drink anymore....but if I did it would be Old Milwaukee. Pabst is a close second.

riderbike
10-29-2009, 04:34 PM
Having a crowd of people with bullhorns follow you around during the day yelling "Shame to the smokers!! Shame, Shame!!" might be construed as harrassment.

Being doused with a water hose each time you choose to put burning items in your face might be construed as harrassment.

A medical professional asking you if you happen to smoke....not so much.

Having a hard time understanding why this warrants conversation, let alone sympathy.

BENDER56
10-29-2009, 04:49 PM
They should harass the people at Burger King during lunch.....that affects health too.

No, let's not harass the people who live on junk food. Let's not harass the smokers ... or the drinkers. In fact, let's just stop harassing each other, period. Then let's repeal all of the seatbelt and helmet laws for adults and get rid of all the other nanny-state laws that are "for our own good".

Of course, then we'll have to repeal all of the socialist programs that take money from us prudent, risk-averse people and pay for the care of those who make foolish choices. That way, every American will be free again to live their lives the way they choose. And if they choose to eat junk food and smoke and drink and engage in reckless behavior and it comes back to bite them in the butt, then they, and they alone, suffer the consequences.

Michaep
10-29-2009, 05:04 PM
i say you all just start using the new "non-spit" chewing tobacco in the pouches :)

SailorDave
10-29-2009, 07:28 PM
No, let's not harass the people who live on junk food. Let's not harass the smokers ... or the drinkers. In fact, let's just stop harassing each other, period. Then let's repeal all of the seatbelt and helmet laws for adults and get rid of all the other nanny-state laws that are "for our own good".


I'm all for the repeal of helmet laws and seatbelt laws and the like, not because I want to do it myself, but because I think we're taking the choice away from people. Conversely, those who choose to disregard these safety features should have to pay a much higher deductable for medical injuries they incur if they are found to have not used them. Don't wear a helmet or seatbelt, the insurance company should make you pay more out of your pocket if you get injured as a result of not wearing them. I don't mean if you have to lay your bike down (without a helmet) and you pay more because your leg is broken. That injury wasn't a result of not wearing the helmet. But if you smack your uncovered noggin on the ground, you're just FUBAR for head injuries.

Want to smoke ? Fine. No coverage for lung cancer, emphysema or the like as a result. Want to chew tobacco ? Fine. No dental coverage for rotting teeth. Want to eat fast foods all the time ? Sorry about your cholesteral, no controlling medication for you !! Like that bottle of booze ? Mandatory hard time for DUI. No wimpy licence revoking and out the door you go. Minimum 6 months to a year on a road crew, cleaning up the highways and making your local city look nicer. Hurt someone in the process, the penalty gets WAY stiffer. Want to do it again after ? Now you're looking at real time in a penitentiary. And you know, to keep costs down, they're gonna try to tie whatever is wrong with you to one of those bad choices in life, so you better keep it to a minimum or cut it out althogether.

We all make our choices in life. We all have our vices. I shouldn't have to pay for yours and you shouldn't have to pay for mine.

Gunner7
10-29-2009, 07:52 PM
I'm all for the repeal of helmet laws and seatbelt laws and the like, not because I want to do it myself, but because I think we're taking the choice away from people. Conversely, those who choose to disregard these safety features should have to pay a much higher deductable for medical injuries they incur if they are found to have not used them. Don't wear a helmet or seatbelt, the insurance company should make you pay more out of your pocket if you get injured as a result of not wearing them. I don't mean if you have to lay your bike down (without a helmet) and you pay more because your leg is broken. That injury wasn't a result of not wearing the helmet. But if you smack your uncovered noggin on the ground, you're just FUBAR for head injuries.

Want to smoke ? Fine. No coverage for lung cancer, emphysema or the like as a result. Want to chew tobacco ? Fine. No dental coverage for rotting teeth. Want to eat fast foods all the time ? Sorry about your cholesteral, no controlling medication for you !! Like that bottle of booze ? Mandatory hard time for DUI. No wimpy licence revoking and out the door you go. Minimum 6 months to a year on a road crew, cleaning up the highways and making your local city look nicer. Hurt someone in the process, the penalty gets WAY stiffer. Want to do it again after ? Now you're looking at real time in a penitentiary. And you know, to keep costs down, they're gonna try to tie whatever is wrong with you to one of those bad choices in life, so you better keep it to a minimum or cut it out althogether.

We all make our choices in life. We all have our vices. I shouldn't have to pay for yours and you shouldn't have to pay for mine.


What do you say to the person who believes that serving in the military is a choice and if you get busted up then that was your fault? There is a growing number of citizens who think they understand the world because their professor told them so. The most important thing in the world to them is their own lives. We belong to a group of people that would lay their lives down for their teammates if called upon to do so. All the high risk/poor choice things we do are part of the pursuit of happiness thing we fight for. Give me liberty......

bravohotel43
10-29-2009, 08:10 PM
After, I'd venture to say, hundreds of such conversations with a healthcare provider, I'm pretty sure my smoking is well documented in my record.

You may have quit. Hence why they ask every single time.

Slightly off-topic, but I may need to start smoking just so I don't agree with Michaep on this topic.

BENDER56
10-29-2009, 08:18 PM
I like Steve Martin's old joke:

"My doctor said I have to start smoking. He says I'm not getting enough tar."

Orion
10-29-2009, 08:18 PM
Let’s not forget about all the time that smoker’s waste, on duty, to get their fix.!! Same people spend half their day in the smoke pit, while the other half does the work….Maybe it is time the AF takes a stand on smoking!!

Great thread that includes that very discussion!!



http://www.militarytimes.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1578157&page=3&highlight=smokers

SailorDave
10-29-2009, 09:39 PM
What do you say to the person who believes that serving in the military is a choice and if you get busted up then that was your fault? There is a growing number of citizens who think they understand the world because their professor told them so. The most important thing in the world to them is their own lives. We belong to a group of people that would lay their lives down for their teammates if called upon to do so. All the high risk/poor choice things we do are part of the pursuit of happiness thing we fight for. Give me liberty......

I'd say the military is like any other employer who must provide more services than the general public because of the nature of the job and those they wish to perform it. If you're in a high risk or high profit civilian job, they offer more benefits and subsidies to get you and keep you employed. If you're flipping burgers at McD's, you don't get the same medical/dental coverage. Coverage of those injuries you're likely to sustain as a result of the job is provided as a condition of employment. Any other job with the same risks will give you the same benefits, or you take your own chances. Nothing more or less. Do you think the Blackwater guys have a crappy health and dental plan ?

If the military didn't provide the coverage it does, and people still sign on knowing the risk and get hurt, they'd be responsible for their own medical care as a result. Of course, you wouldn't get anyone to do that unless you paid them a boat load of cash, but there might be some who would still do it.

DAG48
10-29-2009, 10:53 PM
Why is it that Doctors/Health Care Professionals never ask if you've been exposed to second hand smoke?

chucksnee
10-29-2009, 11:35 PM
You know....before it ends, as long as your happy WHO CARES WHAT OTHER PEOPLE THINK about what you do....if you live 20 years or over 100 years....happiness is what counts....

I've known both ends....one person gets up at 5am runs 3 miles.....goes to work until 4pm then runs another 3 miles....eats and then goes to sleep....starts again the next day....

I known people who smoke 2 cigarettes before there feet even hit the floor in the morning....drink coffee go to work smoke more than a pack a day...

When your happy that is what matters....

Remember Dr. Atkins....the diet wonder dr....slipped and fell...went into a coma and died....

As long as your happy....that's the bottom line.....

SailorDave
10-29-2009, 11:51 PM
So long as other people don't have to pay for your choices (increased insurance rates, higher medical costs, lost production time, etc.) I couldn't care less what you do to yourself. Once it starts to affect me or the group in general, then it becomes my business because now your personal choices are costing me something I shouldn't have to pay.

Keep it all on yourself and have a happy life.

ChiefB
10-30-2009, 02:05 AM
"The bottom line", said the young lady.."Kissing a smoker is like licking an ashtray."

Kinda gets right to the heart of the offense, I'd say.

Slowed my smoking, considerable.

ChiefB

Michaep
10-30-2009, 02:07 AM
"The bottom line", said the young lady.."Kissing a smoker is like licking an ashtray."

Kinda gets right to the heart of the offense, I'd say.

Slowed my smoking, considerable.

ChiefB

lol well considering all the millions of smokers, both male and female, still getting together and having babies, id say its still all good

ChiefB
10-30-2009, 02:24 AM
Back in the day, the Af used to issue you a 5-pack of cigarettes (5 cigarettes in a small box) in your in-flight lunch box or box lunch.

We all thought, "Gee, how thoughtful, the AF even provides me with a free nicotine hit and I didn't even ask for it". I didn't even smoke. All the non-smoking crew, in addition to exchanging chicken legs, PB&Js and raisins gave their smoking buddies the cigs they had in their lunch.

One day, on a stupid impulse, I kept mine and smoked 'em. Bad move, Dork man.:mad:

Funny how the world (read AF) turns, eh?

I'm just saying...

ChiefB

AF Chief
10-30-2009, 03:37 AM
If I was a betting man, I would say that if smokers were granted 1 wish to quit smoking, 9 out of 10 would quit. The only reason they don't is because it's an addiction.

I remember the days when smoking was allowed in the office. I was in Italy in a office of 6 Italians and 2 USAF personnel. All 6 Italians smoked and 1 of the US folks did. I was freaking miserable. Later on they moved the smokers out into the hallway...little better.

My Father is addicted to smoking. He lost 1/2 a lung to it. he was in the small percentage that was sent home to live. Most die. Not 6 months later, he was back smoking again. I don't think he smokes as much, but that addiction is horrible. I am glad I never picked up that habit. You can grill him about his smoking and he just get pissed. I stopped a long time ago. They say "its their life and they will do what they want to". Yea, its YOUR life, but its the whole family (brothers, sisters, fathers, mothers, grand-children, etc.) that you leave behind that suffer with grief when you die of smoking.

Its your choice and I have no issues. I remember one debate the question was asked "if we give all non-smokers a $200 (or any other figure) a month, how many would quit?" Probably a lot or they would lie about it. :lol:

Another question I find funny from the providers, "Do you drink"? Yes. "How many beers a month"? None...I drink a 5th of Rum a week.". I get some funny looks.

bcoco14
10-30-2009, 06:59 AM
Another question I find funny from the providers, "Do you drink"? Yes. "How many beers a month"? None...I drink a 5th of Rum a week.". I get some funny looks.

Hmm and they didn't send you to AA. We had a guy answer that drinking question honestly just to be a smart ass. He ended up in ADAPT and man he was pissed. We still give him $hit for doing that.:)

Gunner7
10-30-2009, 12:04 PM
So long as other people don't have to pay for your choices (increased insurance rates, higher medical costs, lost production time, etc.) I couldn't care less what you do to yourself. Once it starts to affect me or the group in general, then it becomes my business because now your personal choices are costing me something I shouldn't have to pay.

Keep it all on yourself and have a happy life.

So I guess you will be visiting a local jail to voice your concern over the inmates poor choices? Fact is we may have moved away from the campfire of our ancestors but we remain reliant on each other to get things done. Everybody had a role and most people contribute. To penalize one group of people for a lifestyle choice/addiction would mean you could do the same for others. People who drive cars seem to end up in the emergency room more than pedestrians right? Should we discourage them from driving?

Shaken1976
10-30-2009, 02:37 PM
If I was a betting man, I would say that if smokers were granted 1 wish to quit smoking, 9 out of 10 would quit. The only reason they don't is because it's an addiction.

I remember the days when smoking was allowed in the office. I was in Italy in a office of 6 Italians and 2 USAF personnel. All 6 Italians smoked and 1 of the US folks did. I was freaking miserable. Later on they moved the smokers out into the hallway...little better.

My Father is addicted to smoking. He lost 1/2 a lung to it. he was in the small percentage that was sent home to live. Most die. Not 6 months later, he was back smoking again. I don't think he smokes as much, but that addiction is horrible. I am glad I never picked up that habit. You can grill him about his smoking and he just get pissed. I stopped a long time ago. They say "its their life and they will do what they want to". Yea, its YOUR life, but its the whole family (brothers, sisters, fathers, mothers, grand-children, etc.) that you leave behind that suffer with grief when you die of smoking.

Its your choice and I have no issues. I remember one debate the question was asked "if we give all non-smokers a $200 (or any other figure) a month, how many would quit?" Probably a lot or they would lie about it. :lol:

Another question I find funny from the providers, "Do you drink"? Yes. "How many beers a month"? None...I drink a 5th of Rum a week.". I get some funny looks.

Completely agree on those left behind. I am one of those that was left behind. Let me tell you it was not pretty. I was 21 and it tore me up. My sister was 10 and she has had lasting effects from it. Yes you could get killed walking across the street. Or you could be in the wrong place at the wrong place at the wrong time and get caught in a gang bangers crossfire. But why tempt fate. And WHY with all that we know about smoking to people still continue to start. I know a guy who started smoking at 25. WHY? I really just don't get it. I mean my dad started at 15 and that was before he knew how bad it was. After watching the pain and suffering he went through I won't touch a cigarette. The cancer attacked his brain after it attacked his lungs. He lost use of his right side. He was dependent on other people just for daily tasks.

I have answered the question about drinking honestly. Do you drink? Rarely. How often? I can probably count on one hand how many drinks I have in a year. Do you drink more than three drinks at one sitting? Um NO. I actually broke it down for one doctor. If we go to a mexican food joint I MIGHT have A margarita. If I go to a wedding I will join the toast. On Christmas we have some funky orange juice and champaigne combination that I don't really like much but it is tradition. And sometimes I have a bloody mary. That is broken up throughout the year. If you think it is a problem you let me know.

Measure Man
10-30-2009, 03:01 PM
You know....before it ends, as long as your happy WHO CARES WHAT OTHER PEOPLE THINK about what you do....if you live 20 years or over 100 years....happiness is what counts....

I've known both ends....one person gets up at 5am runs 3 miles.....goes to work until 4pm then runs another 3 miles....eats and then goes to sleep....starts again the next day....

I known people who smoke 2 cigarettes before there feet even hit the floor in the morning....drink coffee go to work smoke more than a pack a day...

When your happy that is what matters....

Remember Dr. Atkins....the diet wonder dr....slipped and fell...went into a coma and died....

As long as your happy....that's the bottom line.....

Exactly.

I believe that my habit of smoking a fine cigar a few times aweek contributes positively to my quality of life...much in the same way as a good meal might contribute...and by they way...there is no studies that show smoking premium cigars is a health risk.

imported_sanguines
10-30-2009, 03:55 PM
Exactly.

I believe that my habit of smoking a fine cigar a few times aweek contributes positively to my quality of life...much in the same way as a good meal might contribute...and by they way...there is no studies that show smoking premium cigars is a health risk.

link (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=studies+on+smoking+cigars)

First link (click (http://www.cancer.org/docroot/PED/content/PED_10_2X_Cigar_Smoking.asp)): "Regular cigar smoking increases your risk for many cancers, including:
lung
lip, tongue, mouth, throat (oral cavity)
esophagus (the tube connecting the mouth to the stomach)
voice box (larynx)"

Second link (click (http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/Tobacco/cigars))
"Do cigars cause cancer and other diseases?
Yes. Cigar smoking can cause cancers of the oral cavity (lip, tongue, mouth, and throat), larynx (voice box), esophagus, and lung. It may also cause cancer of the pancreas. Also, daily cigar smokers, particularly those who inhale, are at increased risk for developing heart disease and other types of lung disease. Regular cigar smokers and cigarette smokers have similar levels of risk for oral and esophageal cancers. The more you smoke, the greater the risk of disease (3).

Are cigars addictive?
Yes. Even if the smoke is not inhaled, high levels of nicotine (the chemical that causes addiction) can be absorbed into the body. A single cigar potentially can provide as much nicotine as a pack of cigarettes (1).

A cigar smoker can get nicotine by two routes: By inhalation into the lungs and by absorption through the lining of the mouth. Either way, the nicotine that gets into the body is addictive."

Come on now, use some common sense...

Measure Man
10-30-2009, 05:15 PM
link (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=studies+on+smoking+cigars)

First link (click (http://www.cancer.org/docroot/PED/content/PED_10_2X_Cigar_Smoking.asp)): "Regular cigar smoking increases your risk for many cancers, including:
lung
lip, tongue, mouth, throat (oral cavity)
esophagus (the tube connecting the mouth to the stomach)
voice box (larynx)"

Second link (click (http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/Tobacco/cigars))
"Do cigars cause cancer and other diseases?
Yes. Cigar smoking can cause cancers of the oral cavity (lip, tongue, mouth, and throat), larynx (voice box), esophagus, and lung. It may also cause cancer of the pancreas. Also, daily cigar smokers, particularly those who inhale, are at increased risk for developing heart disease and other types of lung disease. Regular cigar smokers and cigarette smokers have similar levels of risk for oral and esophageal cancers. The more you smoke, the greater the risk of disease (3).

Are cigars addictive?
Yes. Even if the smoke is not inhaled, high levels of nicotine (the chemical that causes addiction) can be absorbed into the body. A single cigar potentially can provide as much nicotine as a pack of cigarettes (1).

A cigar smoker can get nicotine by two routes: By inhalation into the lungs and by absorption through the lining of the mouth. Either way, the nicotine that gets into the body is addictive."

Come on now, use some common sense...

Those are conclusions not based on real studies..."i.e. smoking cigars exposing one to tobacco...we know exposure to tobacco causes X, Y and Z...therefore smoking cigars causes X, Y, and Z" Which is not necessarily true since cigar smokers have very different habits from cigarette smokers...namely, most cigar smokers to not inhale. The studies cited in the article are for people who inhale (generally people who previously smoked cigarettes are likely to inhale cigar smoke). It's also a matter of how much...most cigar smokers don't smoke much...and much much less than cigarette smokers.

I haven't found cigars any more addictive than orange juice. I generally have a cigar every evening...but can routinely go a week without one with no affects whatsever. I might desire or crave a cigar about the same as I might want a glass of orange juice. That is not an addiction. I also know a lot of other cigar smokers...none who "must have" a cigar like other people "must have" a cigarette or cup of coffee. In fact, most people I know only have a cigar once or twice a month.

Heck...even my PCM confirmed that my cigar smoking is not likely to cause a health problem.


Health effects
Further information: Health effects of tobacco
Like other forms of tobacco use, cigar smoking poses a significant health risk depending on dosage: risks are greater for those who inhale more when they smoke, smoke more cigars, or smoke them longer.[17] The risk of dying from any cause is significantly greater for cigar smokers, with the risk particularly higher for smokers less than 65 years old, and with risk for moderate and deep inhalers reaching levels similar to cigarette smokers.[18] Little cigars are commonly inhaled and likely pose the same health risks as cigarettes.[19] The increased risk for those smoking 1–2 cigars per day is too small to be statistically significant,[18] and the health risks of the 3/4 of cigar smokers who smoke less than daily are not known[20] and are hard to measure; although it has been claimed that people who smoke few cigars have no increased risk, a more accurate statement is that their risks are proportionate to their exposure.[21] Health risks are similar to cigarette smoking in nicotine addiction, periodontal health, tooth loss, and many types of cancer, including cancers of the mouth, throat, and esophagus. Cigar smoking also can cause cancers of the lung and larynx, where the increased risk is less than that of cigarettes. Many of these cancers have extremely low cure rates. Cigar smoking also increases the risk of lung and heart diseases such as chronic obstructive pulmonary disease.[17]

Shrike
10-30-2009, 05:30 PM
Those are conclusions not based on real studies..."i.e. smoking cigars exposing one to tobacco...we know exposure to tobacco causes X, Y and Z...therefore smoking cigars causes X, Y, and Z" Which is not necessarily true since cigar smokers have very different habits from cigarette smokers...namely, most cigar smokers to not inhale. The studies cited in the article are for people who inhale (generally people who previously smoked cigarettes are likely to inhale cigar smoke). It's also a matter of how much...most cigar smokers don't smoke much...and much much less than cigarette smokers.

I haven't found cigars any more addictive than orange juice. I generally have a cigar every evening...but can routinely go a week without one with no affects whatsever. I might desire or crave a cigar about the same as I might want a glass of orange juice. That is not an addiction. I also know a lot of other cigar smokers...none who "must have" a cigar like other people "must have" a cigarette or cup of coffee. In fact, most people I know only have a cigar once or twice a month.

Heck...even my PCM confirmed that my cigar smoking is not likely to cause a health problem.

Well, that is conclusive evidence that citrus-derived juices are just as addictive as tobacco products and are therefore a public health hazard that must be banned. And until such time that we can enact legislation to do so, anyone that chooses to indulge in this horrible habit must pay for their own health care.


;)

garhkal
10-30-2009, 10:00 PM
Steve,

Don't know if anyone has ever been completely honest with you, but smoking and smokers STINK!!!

Their breath stinks, their clothes stink, their bodies excrete a smoky sweat stink, their budget for paying $5 a pack stinks, their second-hand smoke that non-smokers breathe stinks, their ashtrays stink, their smoking areas stink, their houses stink, their cars stink, their yellow tobacco-stained teeth stink, their diminished lung capacity stinks, and finally, the money that taxpayers have to fork out to pay for increased medical costs due to smoking stinks.

Any stinking questions? :D

Don't know if anyone has been honest with you, but perfume wearers stink as well. Should we harass them?


You might just live to regret a smoking habit (if you have one). I know that if I'm in the plane with some lardass who has barely been getting by on their PT and/or a heavy smoker with no lung capacity, I don't want to have to drag his/her fat ass to safety. But I'll wear myself out trying.

In austrailia a TV crew challenged some local smokers to 4 competitions with a 5th in reserve if there was a tie. IN ALL 4 the smokers beat out the non smokers.
Since i have been in i have routinly seen smokers equalling or exceeding some non smoekrs on the semi annual PT test...


That way...anything they find with you is "smoking related"...soon, all injuries and diseases will be labeled as "smoking related"

Which is one of imo the biggest lies and coverups in the anit smokers arsenal. Back when i was still in school in England, we had 3 teachers who had congineal heart defects. BUT one had a cigar on new years. When he died from said heart defect, they listed it as a SMOKING related death. When there was no proof of it, and his entire family had a long running history of the heart issue.


Bring it back to the office desk. Productivity would be up, more shit would get done.

Agreed. Over half our shop smokes, and all but one in the rest of the shop (or lt) comes out to chat while we are out there. WE have 3 massive ac units including an air purifier (have to for our 2m bench), so the smell won't be an issue. Could never understand why they got rid of it in the workspace.


[A medical professional asking you if you happen to smoke....not so much./QUOTE]

When they continually ask it, even after they KNOW from seeing your record, it is an issue.

[QUOTE]I'm all for the repeal of helmet laws and seatbelt laws and the like, not because I want to do it myself, but because I think we're taking the choice away from people. Conversely, those who choose to disregard these safety features should have to pay a much higher deductable for medical injuries they incur if they are found to have not used them. Don't wear a helmet or seatbelt, the insurance company should make you pay more out of your pocket if you get injured as a result of not wearing them. I don't mean if you have to lay your bike down (without a helmet) and you pay more because your leg is broken. That injury wasn't a result of not wearing the helmet. But if you smack your uncovered noggin on the ground, you're just FUBAR for head injuries.

While i can agre in part, would you also say those who have unprotected sex should pay higher?> Those who do sky diving, surfing, skiing etc should also? What about those overweight?


I would say that if smokers were granted 1 wish to quit smoking, 9 out of 10 would quit. The only reason they don't is because it's an addiction.

I doubt it would be that high. Out of over 300 smokers i have known only around 60 wanted to quit. Of those only 30 did.

imported_sanguines
10-30-2009, 10:59 PM
Those are conclusions not based on real studies..."i.e. smoking cigars exposing one to tobacco...we know exposure to tobacco causes X, Y and Z...therefore smoking cigars causes X, Y, and Z" Which is not necessarily true since cigar smokers have very different habits from cigarette smokers...namely, most cigar smokers to not inhale. The studies cited in the article are for people who inhale (generally people who previously smoked cigarettes are likely to inhale cigar smoke). It's also a matter of how much...most cigar smokers don't smoke much...and much much less than cigarette smokers.

I haven't found cigars any more addictive than orange juice. I generally have a cigar every evening...but can routinely go a week without one with no affects whatsever. I might desire or crave a cigar about the same as I might want a glass of orange juice. That is not an addiction. I also know a lot of other cigar smokers...none who "must have" a cigar like other people "must have" a cigarette or cup of coffee. In fact, most people I know only have a cigar once or twice a month.

Heck...even my PCM confirmed that my cigar smoking is not likely to cause a health problem.

First of all, just because you claim you find cigar smoking non-addictive does not mean that it is not addictive. Every addict offers a similar explanation: "I can quit anytime I want!"

From Cancer.org: "For those who do not inhale, the nicotine is absorbed more slowly through the lining of the mouth. Cigar smoke dissolves more easily in saliva than cigarette smoke. This means cigar smokers can get the desired dose of nicotine without inhaling the smoke into their lungs. People who use oral or spit tobacco products absorb nicotine the same way. Nicotine in any form is highly addictive."

Here is a link (http://www.cancercontrol.cancer.gov/tcrb/monographs/9/index.html) to a study showing the health risks of cigar smoking.

Smoking one cigar, depending on the size, is roughly equivalent to smoking an entire pack of cigarettes, in both tobacco and nicotine content.

Finally, I wonder what the word of your PCM is worth. Most PCMs are not MDs, but NPs or PAs - does a cherry-picked line from a pamphlet they handed you outweigh the content of many other studies? I think not.

SailorDave
10-30-2009, 11:03 PM
While i can agre in part, would you also say those who have unprotected sex should pay higher?> Those who do sky diving, surfing, skiing etc should also? What about those overweight?


Yes. If you intentionally engage in high risk practices you should have to pay the price if you get injured. Perhaps that would give someone incentive to NOT do these things. If you catch AIDS from unprotected sex or reusing needles, why am I paying higher premiums to make up for the money loss you're causing insurers when you file claims for medical care ?? If you're not smart enough to wear a condom or take the pill or have your tubes tied or vasectomy, why should it affect me ?

Perhaps they should create high-risk riders for insurance policies for those who wish to engage in sky diving, bungee jumping, skiiing, surfing, whatever to cover those costs and leave the base policy alone. If I want to jump out of a perfectly good airplane for fun, why should you have to pay money into a bloated medical system when my dumbass hits the ground and I get FUBAR ? People who are overweight and have an illness linked to their weight problem should be given an opportunity to reduce their weight through diet and exercise to a managable level. If they continue to insist on going by McD's and BK and having the supersized meals, fuck them and their fat ass. Disregarding medical advise should have to cost you, not me. There are not enough checks and balances in the medical and insurance industries to regulate stupidity. So costs just keep getting driven up.

Eastwood
10-31-2009, 12:48 AM
Let’s not forget about all the time that smoker’s waste, on duty, to get their fix.!! Same people spend half their day in the smoke pit, while the other half does the work….Maybe it is time the AF takes a stand on smoking!!

Great thread that includes that very discussion!!



http://www.militarytimes.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1578157&page=3&highlight=smokers

Great Point, I see it every day, smoke pit full of dudes smoking n wasting time.

loader67
11-01-2009, 12:27 AM
I don't smoke. Never have. If someone else wants to smoke, go right ahead. Last I checked, it was a free country. Remember the old bike test? They would ask if you smoked? That question had nothing to do with the test, it was just to collect data on how many people smoked in the Air Force. Just thought I'd mention that. Anyway, you want to spend how ever much it costs for a pack of smokes? Go right ahead, I'm not going to stop you. I used to hang out at the smoke pit with the smokers, just so I could get out of the shop.

Eastwood
06-26-2010, 02:18 PM
Our 98 lb smoker just found his phantom back ache after 3 PT fails, discharge on hold, allowed to extend to test for the 4th time. He is exempt from running and sit ups. What a complete joke!!!

Shrike
06-26-2010, 02:27 PM
Our 98 lb smoker just found his phantom back ache after 3 PT fails, discharge on hold, allowed to extend to test for the 4th time. He is exempt from running and sit ups. What a complete joke!!!

Sorry - not enough info for me to pass judgement. Are his exemptions permanent or temporary? Has he faced an MEB? Can he perform his duties?

Stuntman
06-27-2010, 02:39 AM
I like this addage. "Yeah I'm a smoker. Yeah youre a health nut. Thats fine. When youre running tomorrow and get hit by the 350lb fatass driving their Geo Metro while they eat and talk on their phone, I'll still be alive......smoking."

That adage, while humerous for smokers, is actually inaccurate. Statistically, you're more likely to be in a car accident while going a short distance from your home -- something smokers will often do to 'run to the store for a pack.' Therefore, statistically speaking, the ones most likely to be hurt or killed in an accident are the smokers.

They are also more likely to be outside during extreme heat, or cold, or during a rainstorm...huddled together trying to get their fix. They also can fall asleep with a cigarette lit and burn their house down.

garhkal
06-27-2010, 02:49 AM
I don't smoke. Never have. If someone else wants to smoke, go right ahead. Last I checked, it was a free country. Remember the old bike test? They would ask if you smoked? That question had nothing to do with the test, it was just to collect data on how many people smoked in the Air Force. Just thought I'd mention that. Anyway, you want to spend how ever much it costs for a pack of smokes? Go right ahead, I'm not going to stop you. I used to hang out at the smoke pit with the smokers, just so I could get out of the shop.

A good chunk of most of the commands i have been at are that way, coming out to the smoke deck to chit chat. heck in some peoples' minds, that is where a lot of behind the doors type work gets done.
As to the costs.. It costs me 30 bucks for a carton which lasts 13 days or so (i go through on ave 2 packs every 3 days, though some days like on weekends i go through a full pack). Compare that to most drinkers around here spending that much if not more per NIGHT of partying... i will take smoking any day.

BTDTNM
06-27-2010, 11:28 PM
As long as the AF continues to allow AAFES to sell these products on base, they need to just STFU. Simple as that. If it's really that bad, stop selling the stuff and profiting from it.

garhkal
06-28-2010, 01:57 AM
That is a good point. I would love to know what hte states which are pushing for total bans (like some people in ca want) would do for their budgets since taxes on smokes makes up a good chunk of their income.

2430 MHz
06-28-2010, 02:53 AM
Our 98 lb smoker just found his phantom back ache after 3 PT fails, discharge on hold, allowed to extend to test for the 4th time. He is exempt from running and sit ups. What a complete joke!!!

Ah yes, the case of the Enlisted Doctor strikes yet again...

The one who, of course, has access to ALL personnel and medical files on all fellow Airmen

And is also part of the Command Team making and knowing all decisions related to enlisted airmen and their discharge status and exemptions...etc....

.....OBVIOUSLY

2430 MHz
06-28-2010, 02:58 AM
As long as the AF continues to allow AAFES to sell these products on base, they need to just STFU. Simple as that. If it's really that bad, stop selling the stuff and profiting from it.

AAFES sells a lot of stuff, a lot of it catering to DOD Civilians and wives and children and retired folks as well

You dont wanna make that hardened vietnam veteran with all the tattoos and Marine Corps hat with pins angry because he couldnt get a pack of lucky strikes now would ya?

Yeah, I get it, AAFES sells fast food in an age of super fitness which is enabling some people to choose that. "But...AAFES sells it....etc"

If AAFES sold Salvia and Spice for the civilians and retired people, would that mean that active folks could buy it "because AAFES sells it"? Nope. Of course that would never happen, but just using it as an example

BlackShoe
06-28-2010, 12:56 PM
AAFES sells a lot of stuff ... Yeah, I get it, AAFES sells fast food in an age of super fitness which is enabling some people to choose that. If AAFES sold Salvia and Spice ... would that mean that active folks could buy it "because AAFES sells it"? Nope.

Holy cow? Are you suggesting that we are responsible for our own decisions? That if we smoke, it's our own fault, and we shouldn't blame the people who sell, when, in order to smoke, one must deliberately buy the cigarettes? MHz, you and I seem to agree on this one.

For Smokers:
Hiding behind any excuse of "AAFES Sells it" or the 7-11, or whatever store you choose to get your fix from is a chickenshxt answer when someoene questions your lack of personal accountability. Any smoker who claims that there is no health risk is burying their head in the sand, and hiding from decades of hard evidence to the contrary. Personally, I don't give a damn if you smoke, but if you do:
1) Don't do it when you should be working. If it's important to you, skip lunch. I'm tired of taking up the slack while you nurse your addiction.
2) Don't exhale anywhere near me. Again- hard evidence about the effect of secondhand smoke. I quit smoking because I enjoy clean air, not because I want to smoke your cigarettes instead of mine.
3) Police your f-ing butts. I'm tired of finding used cigarette butts filthying up a basically nice looking area because you weak-willed, no-load, excuse mongering stinkholes can't figure out what an ashtray is for.

At the same time, I'm not looking forward to picking up the tax burden that tobacco is slowly failing to bear.

Shrike
06-28-2010, 01:12 PM
Holy cow? Are you suggesting that we are responsible for our own decisions? That if we smoke, it's our own fault, and we shouldn't blame the people who sell, when, in order to smoke, one must deliberately buy the cigarettes? MHz, you and I seem to agree on this one.

Actually, I don't believe he is. I base that on the fact that in another thread he stated that AAFES shouldn't sell any fast food, should get rid of all snack foods, and should only have healthy options in vending machines. Apparently, his belief in personal responsibility only applies to certain things.


For Smokers:
Hiding behind any excuse of "AAFES Sells it" or the 7-11, or whatever store you choose to get your fix from is a chickenshxt answer when someoene questions your lack of personal accountability.
What lack of personal accountability? If a military member
a) Chooses to indulge in a legal product, and
b) Meets necessary job standards

then what are you referring to?


Any smoker who claims that there is no health risk is burying their head in the sand, and hiding from decades of hard evidence to the contrary.
Agreed, smoking is dumb. I did it for a long time and I'm glad I quit years ago. I wish I could have all the money I spent on cigarettes and the damage I did to my body back, but such is life.



Personally, I don't give a damn if you smoke,
Apparently, you give at least a little bit of a damn or you wouldn't be posting this stuff.


but if you do:
1) Don't do it when you should be working. If it's important to you, skip lunch. I'm tired of taking up the slack while you nurse your addiction.
So people don't take breaks where you work? Don't go get a cup of coffee? Head to the snack fund for a oatmeal cookie and stop to talk to Bob for a couple of minutes about the game last night? Do you work with any civilians? Aren't their breaks mandated by law or contract?
If you are having to do other's work for them because they are taking excessive breaks - for whatever reason - bring it up to your boss or their boss. It's really that simple.


2) Don't exhale anywhere near me. Again- hard evidence about the effect of secondhand smoke. I quit smoking because I enjoy clean air, not because I want to smoke your cigarettes instead of mine.
Any ill effects of secondhand smoke are really just a drop in the bucket compared to all of the bad sh^t you inhale every single day of your life, especially in a military environment. It does make a convenient target, though.


3) Police your f-ing butts. I'm tired of finding used cigarette butts filthying up a basically nice looking area because you weak-willed, no-load, excuse mongering stinkholes can't figure out what an ashtray is for.
Agree 100%. I hate having to pick up after lazy jackasses.


At the same time, I'm not looking forward to picking up the tax burden that tobacco is slowly failing to bear.
Yup. I sometimes wonder whether the people who want smoking banned have any idea just how much of the price of a pack of smokes is tax revenue.

Pullinteeth
06-28-2010, 01:48 PM
Personally, I think non-smokers need to STFU. I don't smoke much and don't really care who knows that I do. I have maybe 1 cigarette a day. If you want to preach, go preach to someone else. I don't care what AAFES does or doesn't sell. If they didn't sell 'em, I can always get them somewhere else. I don't smoke at work so STFU. I don't really mind if medical personnel ask me but if I say I don't care to quit, leave me the hell alone. I do just fine on my PT test so STFU that you know this one guy that smokes and can't pass cause I know a dozen that don't smoke and can't pass (without their profiles...). What ever happened to just minding your own damn business? If I am smoking in your living room or in your car, that is one thing. Smoking on my back porch on my own time, none of your damn business.

MACHINE666
06-29-2010, 06:46 PM
Hey next they're gonna start harassing people who fart, and I'm not gonna have that!

:D :D :D :D :D

2430 MHz
06-30-2010, 02:08 AM
Personally, I think non-smokers need to STFU. I don't smoke much and don't really care who knows that I do. I have maybe 1 cigarette a day. If you want to preach, go preach to someone else. I don't care what AAFES does or doesn't sell. If they didn't sell 'em, I can always get them somewhere else. I don't smoke at work so STFU. I don't really mind if medical personnel ask me but if I say I don't care to quit, leave me the hell alone. I do just fine on my PT test so STFU that you know this one guy that smokes and can't pass cause I know a dozen that don't smoke and can't pass (without their profiles...). What ever happened to just minding your own damn business? If I am smoking in your living room or in your car, that is one thing. Smoking on my back porch on my own time, none of your damn business.

Haha, a second enlisted doctor in the house?

Whatever happened to "minding your own damn business"??

More people bitch and moan about OTHER PEOPLES profiles than all the threads on military times combined

You are not their doctor

You do not know the status of their MEB or if its even being considered for an MEB or not

lol....I really dont mind how much people moan about it, it's not going to change and there is nothing you can do about it. I just find it hilarious how people huff and puff about Airman Snuffy's "alleged medical condition and alleged medical profile"

Apparently all enlisted members who whine like a little sissy about OTHERS medical situations all have X-Ray eyes and can see if something is fractured and where and also have mind reading skills regarding other peoples pain levels

Wait.....are you...."Powder"? Like in the movie?

Can you touch a dying deer and feel the pain?

Thats an incredible skill, call the newspapers ASAP

LOL

imported_BRAVO10000
06-30-2010, 05:25 AM
Haha, a second enlisted doctor in the house?

Whatever happened to "minding your own damn business"??

More people bitch and moan about OTHER PEOPLES profiles than all the threads on military times combined

You are not their doctor

You do not know the status of their MEB or if its even being considered for an MEB or not

lol....I really dont mind how much people moan about it, it's not going to change and there is nothing you can do about it. I just find it hilarious how people huff and puff about Airman Snuffy's "alleged medical condition and alleged medical profile"

Apparently all enlisted members who whine like a little sissy about OTHERS medical situations all have X-Ray eyes and can see if something is fractured and where and also have mind reading skills regarding other peoples pain levels

Wait.....are you...."Powder"? Like in the movie?

Can you touch a dying deer and feel the pain?

Thats an incredible skill, call the newspapers ASAP

LOL

Back to your padded cell. And get your helmet back on.

Pullinteeth
06-30-2010, 12:55 PM
Haha, a second enlisted doctor in the house?
Whatever happened to "minding your own damn business"??
More people bitch and moan about OTHER PEOPLES profiles than all the threads on military times combined
You are not their doctor
You do not know the status of their MEB or if its even being considered for an MEB or not
lol....I really dont mind how much people moan about it, it's not going to change and there is nothing you can do about it. I just find it hilarious how people huff and puff about Airman Snuffy's "alleged medical condition and alleged medical profile"
Apparently all enlisted members who whine like a little sissy about OTHERS medical situations all have X-Ray eyes and can see if something is fractured and where and also have mind reading skills regarding other peoples pain levels
Wait.....are you...."Powder"? Like in the movie?
Can you touch a dying deer and feel the pain?
Thats an incredible skill, call the newspapers ASAP
LOL

Hey @$$hat!! I didn't say they shouldn't be on a profile. Learn to read before you type. All I said is that there are plenty of non-smokers that couldn't pass the FTF without a profile. What about that is a claim that I am a Dr.? What about that is untrue? You tell me whatever happened to minding your own damn business because apparently you haven't mastered that art either.

sandsjames
06-30-2010, 02:35 PM
pssst.....smoking is DIRECTLY related to your MEDICAL health.....maybe thats the reason??!?? just sayin

pssst....why don't they ask you how many hamburgers you eat, or soda's you drink, or what your intake of salt is? All of those things are just as likely to cause health problems. Man I can't stand righteous non-smokers!

Measure Man
06-30-2010, 06:22 PM
pssst....why don't they ask you how many hamburgers you eat, or soda's you drink, or what your intake of salt is? All of those things are just as likely to cause health problems. Man I can't stand righteous non-smokers!

In all fairness, every time I've been in for my annual check-up thing, they ask about eating habits, how much red meat I eat, etc...but no, they don't give it nearly as much fuss as they do smoking.

Stew23
06-30-2010, 08:48 PM
AAFES sells a lot of stuff, a lot of it catering to DOD Civilians and wives and children and retired folks as well

You dont wanna make that hardened vietnam veteran with all the tattoos and Marine Corps hat with pins angry because he couldnt get a pack of lucky strikes now would ya?

Yeah, I get it, AAFES sells fast food in an age of super fitness which is enabling some people to choose that. "But...AAFES sells it....etc"

If AAFES sold Salvia and Spice for the civilians and retired people, would that mean that active folks could buy it "because AAFES sells it"? Nope. Of course that would never happen, but just using it as an example




AFFES, catering thier products to DOD civilians...ooo wait... DOD civilians are not authorized patronage...hmmm...guess who is IGNORANT, yet again...

JD2780
06-30-2010, 10:44 PM
Not authorized and it not happening are two different things. THey do buy stuff there. Very seldom do they check for IDs.

2430 MHz
07-01-2010, 12:37 AM
AFFES, catering thier products to DOD civilians...ooo wait... DOD civilians are not authorized patronage...hmmm...guess who is IGNORANT, yet again...

Haha, thank you AAFES teenage boy who works the cash register....

My base, as do most now, have a lot of contractors and DOD...etc..etc....

IN the BX and food court....drum roll......BUYING SH*T

2430 MHz
07-01-2010, 12:42 AM
pssst....why don't they ask you how many hamburgers you eat, or soda's you drink, or what your intake of salt is? All of those things are just as likely to cause health problems. Man I can't stand righteous non-smokers!

+1 with Measure Man

I'm always asked about my eating habits

"Man I can't stand it when smokers throw a hissy fit about how far they need to walk now to get a smoke" ;)

I LOVE those non smoking areas and "only authorized to smoke in this location" =D

Have a nice day...

P.S. Try Camel Snus and Marlboro Snus....enjoy the non spit versions and SWALLOW ;)

hazard22083
07-01-2010, 01:40 AM
do we have any alcoholics in here that are offended by the techs in the hospital asking how much per day/week they drink? (rhetorical question)
we are all receiving free(if active duty) health care. to continue this FREE healthcare they have EVERY right to know how we treat our bodies. if someone comes down with emphysema/kidney failure at an early age, we all probably know someone who has, and it is documented that they have been smoking/drinking excessively for years, they may be denied the proper medical coverage due to personal negligence. Also, the way we eat is asked on the questionnaires to come to the same conclusion. dont take offense to it, it is the AF way of saving money in the future if they can.

yes, i am a non-smoker. i hate the smell of smoke, but i dont hate smokers. it is your choice to smoke. EVERYONE knows the consequences that can come of excessively indulging in this expensive habit. just dont bitch when the AF covers their own ass. just realize that smoking isnt the only habit they question their patients about.

conclusion--- people over-eat, people over drink, and people over-smoke. dont lie, or take offense, because lab tests or xrays will tell the truth. Money, nowadays, is everything.

Rev Mike Large
07-01-2010, 02:21 AM
do we have any alcoholics in here that are offended by the techs in the hospital asking how much per day/week they drink? (rhetorical question)

I love it when they ask that one. I say, if you can answer how many you've had on a given night, you haven't been partying with the Rev!

Stuntman
07-01-2010, 02:54 AM
pssst....why don't they ask you how many hamburgers you eat, or soda's you drink, or what your intake of salt is? All of those things are just as likely to cause health problems. Man I can't stand righteous non-smokers!

It's really quite simple. You can survive eating hamburgers and drinking soda. Sure, some people over do it, but not everyone. Plus, it doesn't necessarily affect everyone the same way. Hell, the entire time I was in training (which I was in for a solid year due to my specialty), I had a bacon cheeseburger for lunch and dinner every...single....day. Know what? My blood pressure and heart are both fine; I'm still under my max weight despite being out of service now; and aside from being a bit out-of-shape due to lack of exercise, I'm still as healthy as I was back then.

On another note, while I sit enjoying my burger, those around me can still breathe. You enjoy your cigarette anywhere near me, and I can't breathe. Nor can anyone else. And when you come back from your smoke break, you reek of funk. No amount of cologne can help you.

I love it when defensive smokers try desperately (and in vain) to defend the taking of SMOKE into their lungs. Why not just start a camp fire and breathe deep? Smoke is smoke, right? Why evacuate when a building is on fire? Oh that's right...smoke inhalation can KILL you.

2430 MHz
07-01-2010, 03:02 AM
I like the excuse smokers use of "i'll die before anything bad happens from smoking"

Ever watched those "truth" commercials on TV before?

The guy singing "no you dont always die from tobacco"

Or the guy sitting in the wheelchair in a hospital looking deathly ill?

I just like hearing the pathetic stories of how people STARTED smoking cigarettes

NOBODY liked their first cigarette

So was it peer pressure in highschool?

Your girlfriend/boyfriend smoked so you wanted to "join in"...."they started you smoking"? lol

You "felt left out at the smoke pit at work"?

Your "buddies while deployed all smoked so you decided, hey, why not"?

LMAO

Stuntman
07-01-2010, 03:16 AM
I like the excuse smokers use of "i'll die before anything bad happens from smoking"

Ever watched those "truth" commercials on TV before?

The guy singing "no you dont always die from tobacco"

Or the guy sitting in the wheelchair in a hospital looking deathly ill?

I just like hearing the pathetic stories of how people STARTED smoking cigarettes

NOBODY liked their first cigarette

So was it peer pressure in highschool?

Your girlfriend/boyfriend smoked so you wanted to "join in"...."they started you smoking"? lol

You "felt left out at the smoke pit at work"?

Your "buddies while deployed all smoked so you decided, hey, why not"?

LMAO

Well said. Smoking is nothing more than a habit indulged for insecure reasons by those too weak to say no. Those same people later justify their deadly habit by going on about their personal freedoms.

imported_BRAVO10000
07-01-2010, 05:40 AM
We are all receiving free(if active duty) health care. to continue this FREE healthcare they have EVERY right to know how we treat our bodies.

By your logic, since we are receiving 30 days of leave a year for FREE...does the government have a right to know what we do every day on leave? What about how we spend our FREE paycheck?

In other words...fail. I would say that your assertion misses the mark by a few thousand feet, and the DoD's position would last about as long as a lost chicken that wandered into Ethiopia. That health care isn't a perk, like a cup of coffee in the bakery - it is a benefit, part of the compensation package that comes with joining the Armed Services and it doesn't come with conditions like that. It would be awfully presumptuous of the DoD to decide to scrutinize lifestyles while your veins are still surging with untested innoculations, the twice-saturated fats from MREs, and the tar and nicotine from the free 5-pack of Marlboros that came out of a package of K rats. Aren't these the same people that nuked several hundred of their own to see what would happen? Give that some thought while doing laps around the burn pit.

Don't talk to me about the cost - we have mentioned here many, many times that healthy people live longer and create a greater burden to the health care system - proven by the numbers. Seriously - when my tax dollars are funding women on welfare that believe that the vajayjay is an income-generating clown car, are we really suggesting the denial of benefits to a veteran of any kind?

BISSBOSS
07-01-2010, 05:46 AM
By your logic, since we are receiving 30 days of leave a year for FREE...does the government have a right to know what we do every day on leave? What about how we spend our FREE paycheck?

In other words...fail. I would say that your assertion misses the mark by a few thousand feet, and the DoD's position would last about as long as a lost chicken that wandered into Ethiopia. That health care isn't a perk, like a cup of coffee in the bakery - it is a benefit, part of the compensation package that comes with joining the Armed Services and it doesn't come with conditions like that. It would be awfully presumptuous of the DoD to decide to scrutinize lifestyles while your veins are still surging with untested innoculations, the twice-saturated fats from MREs, and the tar and nicotine from the free 5-pack of Marlboros that came out of a package of K rats. Aren't these the same people that nuked several hundred of their own to see what would happen? Give that some thought while doing laps around the burn pit.

Don't talk to me about the cost - we have mentioned here many, many times that healthy people live longer and create a greater burden to the health care system - proven by the numbers. Seriously - when my tax dollars are funding women on welfare that believe that the vajayjay is an income-generating clown car, are we really suggesting the denial of benefits to a veteran of any kind?

Nice Rant!

-BB-

Stuntman
07-01-2010, 06:55 AM
By your logic, since we are receiving 30 days of leave a year for FREE...does the government have a right to know what we do every day on leave? What about how we spend our FREE paycheck?


Have you ever even been in the military? They most certainly do tell you what you can and can't do, yes even while on leave. You have to tell them where you're going, how to contact you and get a briefing if your activities include dangerous or risky hobbies. And if you do something that's not allowed while on leave...you can expect to be 'on leave' for a lot longer, when they discharge you.

ChiefB
07-01-2010, 07:34 AM
Whoa.....I can't wait for this answer..... Let me get a cigar and a tall one....:madgrin:heh

ChiefB

sandsjames
07-01-2010, 08:02 AM
+1 with Measure Man

I'm always asked about my eating habits

"Man I can't stand it when smokers throw a hissy fit about how far they need to walk now to get a smoke" ;)

I LOVE those non smoking areas and "only authorized to smoke in this location" =D

Have a nice day...

P.S. Try Camel Snus and Marlboro Snus....enjoy the non spit versions and SWALLOW ;)

I have no issues with being asked about smoking when I'm in for my annual check-up/PHA, because as you said, they ask about eating habits, drinking, etc. What I have a problem with is why they have to ask if I go in for a new eyeglass prescription, or a sprained ankle, or something else that is completely irrelevant.

sandsjames
07-01-2010, 08:17 AM
It's really quite simple. You can survive eating hamburgers and drinking soda. Sure, some people over do it, but not everyone. Plus, it doesn't necessarily affect everyone the same way. Hell, the entire time I was in training (which I was in for a solid year due to my specialty), I had a bacon cheeseburger for lunch and dinner every...single....day. Know what? My blood pressure and heart are both fine; I'm still under my max weight despite being out of service now; and aside from being a bit out-of-shape due to lack of exercise, I'm still as healthy as I was back then.

On another note, while I sit enjoying my burger, those around me can still breathe. You enjoy your cigarette anywhere near me, and I can't breathe. Nor can anyone else. And when you come back from your smoke break, you reek of funk. No amount of cologne can help you.

I love it when defensive smokers try desperately (and in vain) to defend the taking of SMOKE into their lungs. Why not just start a camp fire and breathe deep? Smoke is smoke, right? Why evacuate when a building is on fire? Oh that's right...smoke inhalation can KILL you.

It's really quite simple. I smoke a pack of cigarettes every...single...day. Know what? My blood pressure and heart are both fine; I'm still under my max weight and comfortably pass my PT test despite the fact that I smoke. Don't get me wrong. I have no allusions about smoking being bad for me. And that's what's so annoying. I know it's bad for me, and so do the rest of the smokers. We don't need to be preached at about it. Until 20 years ago, people smoked everywhere. Bars, restaurants, airplanes, grocery stores, etc...and nobody ever bitched about the smell, or exagerated a cough because of the second hand smoke 20 ft away from them. It's only since people who try to tell us how to live our lives started talking about how bad it is that people started making a big deal about it.

Stuntman
07-01-2010, 11:18 AM
It's only since people who try to tell us how to live our lives started talking about how bad it is that people started making a big deal about it.

As medical research improves and we know more about things, "what we did 20 years ago" doesn't really justify doing those things now. Do we paint out houses or cribs with lead? Do we ride around with kids standing in the back seat of our cars?

No. Now that we know more about smoking......now that the truth of it is literally RAMMED down people's throats on a daily basis....those who made the strong-willed, strong-charactered decision to not smoke do not want it around them. Hell, I'm allergic to smoke. I learned that lovely fact when I was 25 years old. Guess what. All THREE of my parents smoked. Mom, dad, stepmom. My childhood was MISERABLE. We thought it was because of the cat and dog. Nope. It was my parents (thanks guys). So THEIR choice about what to do with THEIR bodies made my life hell for the first 2 DECADES of it.

Stuntman
07-01-2010, 11:24 AM
Whoa.....I can't wait for this answer..... Let me get a cigar and a tall one....:madgrin:heh

ChiefB

If you're talking about waiting for Bravo, there really isn't room for a reply. Not an intelligent one, anyway. Sure, he can get defensive about my reply and regale me with tales about how, when and where he served. But I need only to direct your attention to the top message thread in this forum -- the one that talks about how "mistakes become career-enders during a draw-down."

If you read the attached story, you'll see that airmen have been given the boot for things as asinine as having porn....on their HOME computers.

Yeah...read that story and then tell me the military can't tell you what you can and can't do on your off time. Read the "blacklist" of clubs and establishments you aren't allowed to go to and tell me the military can't tell us what we can and can't do. And let's not even open up the can of worms that is "gays in the military." Let's ask them if the military controls what they can and can't do in their off time....oops. We can't. The moment we find out they're gay -- BOOT -- bye bye.

The simple fact is -- they can and do tell us what we can and can't do. It said "GI" on all of our butts the moment we signed on the dotted line. We go where they want, when they want and for how long they want. Hell, I knew several guys when I was in who didn't get GET leave. They had to keep selling it back because they were never allowed to take it.

sandsjames
07-01-2010, 11:26 AM
The problem wasn't your parents smoking. It was them smoking around you. I don't smoke in my house. I don't smoke in my car. I smoke only in designated smoking areas on base. My "secondhand" smoke isn't affecting anyone. Some people don't like the smell. I don't like the smell of perfume or cologne, or scented candles, or air fresheners. They make me sneeze. There are no designated perfume wearing areas. My smoking, in no way, affects the health of the people I work with.

Stuntman
07-01-2010, 11:56 AM
The problem wasn't your parents smoking. It was them smoking around you. I don't smoke in my house. I don't smoke in my car. I smoke only in designated smoking areas on base. My "secondhand" smoke isn't affecting anyone. Some people don't like the smell. I don't like the smell of perfume or cologne, or scented candles, or air fresheners. They make me sneeze. There are no designated perfume wearing areas. My smoking, in no way, affects the health of the people I work with.

Many people don't adhere to those "smoking areas" because, like the crux of the argument on their side states, it's "interfering with their freedoms." I've come out of many buildings around here, in a city where smoking within 25 feet of an entrance is prohibited, and walked through a cloud of smoke from a group who couldn't be bothered to walk 25 feet from the door. At my last duty station -- in a state known for not being big on AC -- the "designated area" was right next to our office's open windows. So our choice was sweat to death, or breathe smoke.

You say your smoking 'in no way affects those you work with,' but what about when you've returned from one of your many smoke breaks? I work with a guy who likes cigars. When he smokes, of course he goes to the parking lot. When he returns, however, he smells like week-old ass. It's almost as though I'd prefer the smell of a dirty bathroom than him. That DOES affect those you work with, whether you care to admit it or not.

And as to your perfume comment -- I've seen people counseled or sent home when their chosen scent causes problems for others -- so you're not entirely accurate there.

sandsjames
07-01-2010, 12:42 PM
Thank you for confirming my point. The problem isn't the smokers, it's those who are following the guidelines as to how close to a building they can smoke. Deal with those people. Why did you have to close your windows and sweat? Go outside and tell them they need to move away. It's that simple. However disappointed a lot of people are, smoking is not illegal, nor is it banned on base. Until that day comes, as long as people are smoking where they are suppose to, then everyone should quit complaining. If people aren't following regulations, whether it's fitness standards, dress and appearance, or using designated smoking areas, then it's your job to correct them. As to the smell, you just have to get over it. I can't stand the smell of body odor, yet the Airforce still makes me participate in Squadron PT in a poorly ventilated gym, where the smell of B.O. is rancid. Maybe there should be no sweating within 25 feet of a building so that nobody is upset by the smell. Or maybe the BX shouldn't have a food court, because the smell of Taco Bell makes me feel ill. Obviously I'm exaggerating, but where do you draw the line?

Stuntman
07-01-2010, 12:53 PM
Thank you for confirming my point. The problem isn't the smokers, it's those who are following the guidelines as to how close to a building they can smoke. Deal with those people.

Come on now. This is the MILITARY we're talking about. The organization that DEFINES the phrase "one person f'ed it up for everyone." Do you really think they're going to worry about dealing with a single group of people? Nope. You've heard the line before "Because some of you can't follow instructions, NONE of you get to do x,y,z."

Shrike
07-01-2010, 01:36 PM
Haha, thank you AAFES teenage boy who works the cash register....

My base, as do most now, have a lot of contractors and DOD...etc..etc....

IN the BX and food court....drum roll......BUYING SH*T
DOD civilians can't. Contractors, however, can - if it's written in their contract. I assume, of course, that you are able to tell the difference between the two just by looking at them. :rolleyes:

Shrike
07-01-2010, 01:40 PM
Well said. Smoking is nothing more than a habit indulged for insecure reasons by those too weak to say no. Those same people later justify their deadly habit by going on about their personal freedoms.

Self-righteous posting is nothing more than over-compensation for withered, non-functioning genitalia and an ability to repulse the opposite sex.

Wow, random generalizations pulled from the ass ARE fun! :)

Shrike
07-01-2010, 01:44 PM
Many people don't adhere to those "smoking areas" because, like the crux of the argument on their side states, it's "interfering with their freedoms." I've come out of many buildings around here, in a city where smoking within 25 feet of an entrance is prohibited, and walked through a cloud of smoke from a group who couldn't be bothered to walk 25 feet from the door. At my last duty station -- in a state known for not being big on AC -- the "designated area" was right next to our office's open windows. So our choice was sweat to death, or breathe smoke.

You say your smoking 'in no way affects those you work with,' but what about when you've returned from one of your many smoke breaks? I work with a guy who likes cigars. When he smokes, of course he goes to the parking lot. When he returns, however, he smells like week-old ass. It's almost as though I'd prefer the smell of a dirty bathroom than him. That DOES affect those you work with, whether you care to admit it or not.

And as to your perfume comment -- I've seen people counseled or sent home when their chosen scent causes problems for others -- so you're not entirely accurate there.
You live in a friggin' CITY and you whine about how other's smoking affects you?

:rolleyes:

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:


:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Stuntman
07-01-2010, 02:00 PM
Self-righteous posting is nothing more than over-compensation for withered, non-functioning genitalia and an ability to repulse the opposite sex.

Wow, random generalizations pulled from the ass ARE fun! :)

Awww did I strike a nerve? Have another cigarette. It'll be ok.

Stuntman
07-01-2010, 02:01 PM
You live in a friggin' CITY and you whine about how other's smoking affects you?


As though where I live has any bearing on the topic whatsoever?

Shrike
07-01-2010, 02:11 PM
Awww did I strike a nerve? Have another cigarette. It'll be ok.
I know it would be convenient for you to believe I smoke, but I don't. Have another dose of self-righteousness. It'll be okay.

Shrike
07-01-2010, 02:14 PM
As though where I live has any bearing on the topic whatsoever?
How much vehicle exhaust do you breathe every day - cars, trucks, motorcycles, trains, planes, maybe even boats? How much industry is in your city? How much construction? How ventilated are your sewers? Do you ride public transportation? Use elevators?

You inhale so much crap every single day living or working in a city, but you want to bitch about smoking? If you're so worried about your lungs, move to Big Sky Country. Otherwise, you just come across as a whining hypocrite.

Stuntman
07-01-2010, 02:22 PM
I know it would be convenient for you to believe I smoke, but I don't. Have another dose of self-righteousness. It'll be okay.

Doesn't take being self-righteous to recognize weak character.

Stuntman
07-01-2010, 02:23 PM
How much vehicle exhaust do you breathe every day - cars, trucks, motorcycles, trains, planes, maybe even boats? How much industry is in your city? How much construction? How ventilated are your sewers? Do you ride public transportation? Use elevators?

You inhale so much crap every single day living or working in a city, but you want to bitch about smoking? If you're so worried about your lungs, move to Big Sky Country. Otherwise, you just come across as a whining hypocrite.

Ahh. Now we get to the whiny "but but but there's so much bad stuff in the air already!" post. Lovely. How's this for a reply? It's true, the air ain't getting any better, and smokers just add to that now don't they?

Shrike
07-01-2010, 02:26 PM
Doesn't take being self-righteous to recognize weak character.

So, where do you buy the pedestals you put yourself up on?

Shrike
07-01-2010, 02:27 PM
Ahh. Now we get to the whiny "but but but there's so much bad stuff in the air already!" post. Lovely. How's this for a reply? It's true, the air ain't getting any better, and smokers just add to that now don't they?

In other words - "HEY! Don't call out MY choices as being bad for me!!! That's not fair! I'm trying to pass judgement on smokers here, and you're not playing by my rules!!!"

sandsjames
07-01-2010, 02:30 PM
As though where I live has any bearing on the topic whatsoever?


It does have a bearing. I don't live in a city. I hate cities. Yet I still have to suffer the consequences of breathing your smog filled CO2 air anytime I come within 50 miles, not to mention the global warming being caused (don't really believe the whole global warming thing, just making a point). If I want to go to a restaurant or movie theater, I have to drive into that city. It stinks so bad. I can't stand the smell. The movie theater should have to move outside the city so I don't have to deal with it. Maybe it can be built in a designated non smog area so I can remain healthy.

hazard22083
07-01-2010, 10:02 PM
By your logic, since we are receiving 30 days of leave a year for FREE...does the government have a right to know what we do every day on leave? What about how we spend our FREE paycheck?

In other words...fail. I would say that your assertion misses the mark by a few thousand feet, and the DoD's position would last about as long as a lost chicken that wandered into Ethiopia. That health care isn't a perk, like a cup of coffee in the bakery - it is a benefit, part of the compensation package that comes with joining the Armed Services and it doesn't come with conditions like that. It would be awfully presumptuous of the DoD to decide to scrutinize lifestyles while your veins are still surging with untested innoculations, the twice-saturated fats from MREs, and the tar and nicotine from the free 5-pack of Marlboros that came out of a package of K rats. Aren't these the same people that nuked several hundred of their own to see what would happen? Give that some thought while doing laps around the burn pit.

Don't talk to me about the cost - we have mentioned here many, many times that healthy people live longer and create a greater burden to the health care system - proven by the numbers. Seriously - when my tax dollars are funding women on welfare that believe that the vajayjay is an income-generating clown car, are we really suggesting the denial of benefits to a veteran of any kind?

1st-we earn 2.5 days of leave a month, 30 days aren't free
2nd- we have to fill out a leave form including numbers of contact and place where we will be
3rd-if we perform any high risk activity without a proper briefing AND get injured while on said activity, the military isn't obligated to cover any medical bill incurred from injury
4th- the last time i was personally on a Multi-Surgical Unit of a hospital (2 days ago), 13 of the 17 patients were there due to weight issues, diabetes mellitus type 2, heart problems, or cellulitus. walk into an MSU and you will know what im talking about.
5th- please show some of the proven by the numbers facts that show healthier people are more costly to the system
6th- here is some info on type 2 diabetes if you dont know what it is:
Type 2 diabetes, often called non-insulin dependent diabetes, is the most common form of diabetes, affecting 90% - 95% of the 21 million people with diabetes. In this article, you'll learn the basics about type 2 diabetes, including symptoms and causes, as well as type 2 diabetes in children.

What Is Type 2 Diabetes?
Unlike people with type 1 diabetes, people with type 2 diabetes produce insulin; however, either their pancreas does not produce enough insulin or the body cannot use the insulin adequately. This is called insulin resistance. When there isn't enough insulin or the insulin is not used as it should be, glucose (sugar) can't get into the body's cells. When glucose builds up in the blood instead of going into cells, the body's cells are not able to function properly. Other problems associated with the buildup of glucose in the blood include:

Dehydration. The buildup of sugar in the blood can cause an increase in urination. When the kidneys lose the glucose through the urine, a large amount of water is also lost, causing dehydration.
Diabetic Coma (Hyperosmolar nonketotic diabetic coma) . When a person with type 2 diabetes becomes severely dehydrated and is not able to drink enough fluids to make up for the fluid losses, they may develop this life-threatening complication.
Damage to the body. Over time, the high glucose levels in the blood may damage the nerves and small blood vessels of the eyes, kidneys, and heart and predispose a person to atherosclerosis (hardening) of the large arteries that can cause heart attack and stroke.


Type 2 Diabetes in Children
More and more children are being diagnosed with type 2 diabetes. Find out about type 2 diabetes symptoms in children, the diagnosis, and the treatment in WebMD's article on type 2 diabetes in childhood. If your child is at risk for childhood diabetes, it’s important to learn specific self-care tips to help prevent diabetes.

For more detail, see WebMD's article Type 2 Diabetes in Children.

Who Gets Type 2 Diabetes?
Anyone can get type 2 diabetes. However, those at highest risk for the disease are those who are obese or overweight, women who have had gestational diabetes, people with family members who have type 2 diabetes and people who have metabolic syndrome (a cluster of problems that include high cholesterol, high triglycerides, low good 'HDL' cholesterol and a high bad 'LDL' cholesterol, and high blood pressure). In addition, older people are more susceptible to developing the disease since aging makes the body less tolerant of sugars.

In addition, people who smoke, have inactive lifestyles, or have certain dietary patterns have an increased risk of developing type 2 diabetes.

-laymans terms- UNhealthy lifestyles lead to more chronic/acute diseases or illnesses, this is one example. which in turn cost more money in the healthcare system than healthy lifestyles.

Stuntman
07-02-2010, 12:14 AM
So, where do you buy the pedestals you put yourself up on?

If you will read *and* comprehend my other post, you'll see where I said it doesn't take being self-righteous to recognize weak character. Thus, no pedestal involved.

Stuntman
07-02-2010, 12:18 AM
It does have a bearing. I don't live in a city. I hate cities. Yet I still have to suffer the consequences of breathing your smog filled CO2 air anytime I come within 50 miles, not to mention the global warming being caused (don't really believe the whole global warming thing, just making a point).

Actually, according to my childhood allergy test, I'm far more allergic to green things in the country than anything in the city.

And here's another fun fact -- in the days where there's a pollution warning, you're warned to stay INDOORS. When smokers return from their smoke break, they go INDOORS. The place where they stink and affect their coworkers is INDOORS.

So during "ozone days" we can't go outside for fresh air, and thanks to the smokers in the work place we can't breathe fresh air inside either. Thanks smokers!

Shrike
07-02-2010, 12:31 AM
If you will read *and* comprehend my other post, you'll see where I said it doesn't take being self-righteous to recognize weak character. Thus, no pedestal involved.

It doesn't take much to recognize a weak-ass, self-aggrandizing argument either. Enjoy those deadly fumes you breathe in the city, man. I'm out in the woods breathing clean air and keeping my lungs clean.

Shrike
07-02-2010, 12:38 AM
1st-we earn 2.5 days of leave a month, 30 days aren't free
2nd- we have to fill out a leave form including numbers of contact and place where we will be
3rd-if we perform any high risk activity without a proper briefing AND get injured while on said activity, the military isn't obligated to cover any medical bill incurred from injury
4th- the last time i was personally on a Multi-Surgical Unit of a hospital (2 days ago), 13 of the 17 patients were there due to weight issues, diabetes mellitus type 2, heart problems, or cellulitus. walk into an MSU and you will know what im talking about.
5th- please show some of the proven by the numbers facts that show healthier people are more costly to the system
6th- here is some info on type 2 diabetes if you dont know what it is:
Type 2 diabetes, often called non-insulin dependent diabetes, is the most common form of diabetes, affecting 90% - 95% of the 21 million people with diabetes. In this article, you'll learn the basics about type 2 diabetes, including symptoms and causes, as well as type 2 diabetes in children.

What Is Type 2 Diabetes?
Unlike people with type 1 diabetes, people with type 2 diabetes produce insulin; however, either their pancreas does not produce enough insulin or the body cannot use the insulin adequately. This is called insulin resistance. When there isn't enough insulin or the insulin is not used as it should be, glucose (sugar) can't get into the body's cells. When glucose builds up in the blood instead of going into cells, the body's cells are not able to function properly. Other problems associated with the buildup of glucose in the blood include:

Dehydration. The buildup of sugar in the blood can cause an increase in urination. When the kidneys lose the glucose through the urine, a large amount of water is also lost, causing dehydration.
Diabetic Coma (Hyperosmolar nonketotic diabetic coma) . When a person with type 2 diabetes becomes severely dehydrated and is not able to drink enough fluids to make up for the fluid losses, they may develop this life-threatening complication.
Damage to the body. Over time, the high glucose levels in the blood may damage the nerves and small blood vessels of the eyes, kidneys, and heart and predispose a person to atherosclerosis (hardening) of the large arteries that can cause heart attack and stroke.


Type 2 Diabetes in Children
More and more children are being diagnosed with type 2 diabetes. Find out about type 2 diabetes symptoms in children, the diagnosis, and the treatment in WebMD's article on type 2 diabetes in childhood. If your child is at risk for childhood diabetes, it’s important to learn specific self-care tips to help prevent diabetes.

For more detail, see WebMD's article Type 2 Diabetes in Children.

Who Gets Type 2 Diabetes?
Anyone can get type 2 diabetes. However, those at highest risk for the disease are those who are obese or overweight, women who have had gestational diabetes, people with family members who have type 2 diabetes and people who have metabolic syndrome (a cluster of problems that include high cholesterol, high triglycerides, low good 'HDL' cholesterol and a high bad 'LDL' cholesterol, and high blood pressure). In addition, older people are more susceptible to developing the disease since aging makes the body less tolerant of sugars.

In addition, people who smoke, have inactive lifestyles, or have certain dietary patterns have an increased risk of developing type 2 diabetes.

-laymans terms- UNhealthy lifestyles lead to more chronic/acute diseases or illnesses, this is one example. which in turn cost more money in the healthcare system than healthy lifestyles.
Links to the studies have been posted numerous times on the forum. Summary: Unhealthy people, such as those that are overweight, have greater short term costs due to their lifestyles. However, statistically they die young. But those that "live clean" statistically live longer and their long-term health costs come to about $90000 per person more than the unhealthy folks. It's why I sometimes facetiously say that if the current focus on fitness actually was based on DOD healthcare costs (as some have claimed) then around the 15-year point of everyone's career they'd be encouraged to smoke, drink, eat unhealthfully, and engage in other risky activity.

Stuntman
07-02-2010, 12:53 AM
It doesn't take much to recognize a weak-ass, self-aggrandizing argument either. Enjoy those deadly fumes you breathe in the city, man. I'm out in the woods breathing clean air and keeping my lungs clean.

Still not comprehending what you read, hmmm? It will happen eventually I'm sure. Please read where I said it doesn't matter where I live in terms of air quality. I'm highly allergic to anything 'out in the country.' However, in both the city AND the country, I can go indoors to get away from pollutants....that is until a smoker returns from a smoke break and brings their stink in with them.

USMC0369
07-02-2010, 12:55 AM
Still not comprehending what you read, hmmm? It will happen eventually I'm sure. Please read where I said it doesn't matter where I live in terms of air quality. I'm highly allergic to anything 'out in the country.' However, in both the city AND the country, I can go indoors to get away from pollutants....that is until a smoker returns from a smoke break and brings their stink in with them.

Sounds like Darwin is trying to tell you something.

Stuntman
07-02-2010, 01:04 AM
Sounds like Darwin is trying to tell you something.

Not at all. As I said, I live in the city. Almost 32 years in one and zero ill effects so far. I haven't even noticed any negative effects on 'so-called' ozone days.

I have, however, had to hold my nose or leave the room when a smoker comes back in from his smoke break. We've all but banned the supervisor here from our office after he smokes. He's allowed in only when he doesn't stink.

ChiefB
07-02-2010, 01:17 AM
If you're talking about waiting for Bravo, there really isn't room for a reply. Not an intelligent one, anyway. Sure, he can get defensive about my reply and regale me with tales about how, when and where he served. But I need only to direct your attention to the top message thread in this forum -- the one that talks about how "mistakes become career-enders during a draw-down."

If you read the attached story, you'll see that airmen have been given the boot for things as asinine as having porn....on their HOME computers.

Yeah...read that story and then tell me the military can't tell you what you can and can't do on your off time. Read the "blacklist" of clubs and establishments you aren't allowed to go to and tell me the military can't tell us what we can and can't do. And let's not even open up the can of worms that is "gays in the military." Let's ask them if the military controls what they can and can't do in their off time....oops. We can't. The moment we find out they're gay -- BOOT -- bye bye.

The simple fact is -- they can and do tell us what we can and can't do. It said "GI" on all of our butts the moment we signed on the dotted line. We go where they want, when they want and for how long they want. Hell, I knew several guys when I was in who didn't get GET leave. They had to keep selling it back because they were never allowed to take it.




http://www.militarytimes.com/forum/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by ChiefB http://www.militarytimes.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.militarytimes.com/forum/showthread.php?p=368072#post368072)
Whoa.....I can't wait for this answer..... Let me get a cigar and a tall one....:madgrin:heh

So, after you post to Bravo this: "Have you ever even been in the military?", I have the audacity to gush... "I can't wait for this answer".... and include a facetious declaration of "Let me get a cigar and a tall one" a dig apropos to the thread content, you feel a compulsion to lecture me, an innocent bystander, on the ins and outs of the military. Is that about right?

Well, I'm flattered that you would take the time to straighten me out. I shall be more definitive in future posts to save you time.

Carry on.

ChiefB

Stuntman
07-02-2010, 01:20 AM
So, after you post to Bravo this: "Have you ever even been in the military?", I have the audacity to gush... "I can't wait for this answer".... and include a facetious declaration of "Let me get a cigar and a tall one" a dig apropos to the thread content, you feel a compulsion to lecture me, an innocent bystander, on the ins and outs of the military. Is that about right?

Well, I'm flattered that you would take the time to straighten me out. I shall be more definitive in future posts to save you time.


So you feel as though my argument towards Bravo was somehow a lecture toward you? Sensitive much?

ChiefB
07-02-2010, 01:31 AM
So you feel as though my argument towards Bravo was somehow a lecture toward you? Sensitive much?

Exactly....you want to lecture Bravo.... address him.... I'm too busy, now, boning up on the Airman's Guide.

The price of milk in New York City is rediculous compared to how much cotton is harvested in the South.

ChiefB

Stuntman
07-02-2010, 01:32 AM
Exactly....you want to lecture Bravo.... address him.... I'm too busy, now, boning up on the Airman's Guide.


Actually, I believe I *did* address him, until you interjected. The only thing that was directed toward you was explaining why he has no rebuttal toward me. As he's not responded to it yet, I'd say my point was made.

Dang, I heard cheif's had big egos, but this is ridiculous. Though I must say I understand why you think it was a lecture toward you. As they say "you can't tell a chief anything."

hazard22083
07-02-2010, 01:39 AM
Links to the studies have been posted numerous times on the forum. Summary: Unhealthy people, such as those that are overweight, have greater short term costs due to their lifestyles. However, statistically they die young. But those that "live clean" statistically live longer and their long-term health costs come to about $90000 per person more than the unhealthy folks. It's why I sometimes facetiously say that if the current focus on fitness actually was based on DOD healthcare costs (as some have claimed) then around the 15-year point of everyone's career they'd be encouraged to smoke, drink, eat unhealthfully, and engage in other risky activity.

shrike,
i dont disagree with that. the longer you live the more money you spend. it doesnt matter what aspect it is in.
i shouldve asked for numbers to prove more of a Burden to the system than costly. living a longer healthier life is NOT a burden to the system but rather using the system the way it should be used with annual checkups and things of that nature.
Yes people are going to have genetic disorders and unfortunate accidents which will raise the overall cost per person as they live longer and healthier lives.

so i rephrase--- BRAVO, whats the numbers that prove healthier people are more of a burden?

hazard22083
07-02-2010, 01:43 AM
Actually, I believe I *did* address him, until you interjected. The only thing that was directed toward you was explaining why he has no rebuttal toward me. As he's not responded to it yet, I'd say my point was made.

Dang, I heard cheif's had big egos, but this is ridiculous. Though I must say I understand why you think it was a lecture toward you. As they say "you can't tell a chief anything."

:focus
:llama :fencing :llama

stuntman................:tea................ChiefB

hazard22083
07-02-2010, 01:44 AM
huh? what ya guys say?

hazard22083
07-02-2010, 01:45 AM
Oh, just one thing stuntman

a chief is like a First shirt in the sense that they can be your best friend.......or your worst enemy. Just an FYI.

ChiefB
07-02-2010, 01:50 AM
Actually, I believe I *did* address him, until you interjected. The only thing that was directed toward you was explaining why he has no rebuttal toward me. As he's not responded to it yet, I'd say my point was made.

Dang, I heard cheif's had big egos, but this is ridiculous. Though I must say I understand why you think it was a lecture toward you. As they say "you can't tell a chief anything."

I've tried to keep this a light, respectful, conversation with you, but since you insist on casting aspersions and don't seem to have a sense of humor or funny bone.. all I can say is "have you ever, ever been in the military" because you sure don't know how to spell "CHIEF", half the time.

What you heard about Chiefs and SNCOs apparently didn't include the fact that we make it our business to know about the military and don't need to be lectured by Johnny come-lately, besser-wissers. Your continuous rants here border on the psychotic.

Please get some help.

ChiefB

Stuntman
07-02-2010, 01:50 AM
Yeah well, those sayings only really apply if you're still in. When you're out, like me, it goes more like "They can be your best friend....or they can be on their way."

Stuntman
07-02-2010, 01:53 AM
I've tried to keep this a light, respectful, conversation with you, but since you insist on casting aspersions and don't seem to have a sense of humor or funny bone.. all I can say is "have you ever, ever been in the military" because you sure don't know how to spell "CHIEF", half the time.


Ever heard of a typo? Look it up.



What you heard about Chiefs and SNCOs apparently didn't include the fact that we make it our business to know about the military and don't need to be lectured by Johnny come-lately, besser-wissers.

You forgot that they have the biggest egos out there.


Your continuous rants here border on the psychotic.


And your continued suspicions of my motives border on the paranoid schizophrenic.

ChiefB
07-02-2010, 02:01 AM
Ever heard of a typo? Look it up.



You forgot that they have the biggest egos out there.



And your continued suspicions of my motives border on the paranoid schizophrenic.

Why do I feel that if we continue here, you will detonate?:target

ChiefB

Shrike
07-02-2010, 02:07 AM
Not at all. As I said, I live in the city. Almost 32 years in one and zero ill effects so far. I haven't even noticed any negative effects on 'so-called' ozone days.

I have, however, had to hold my nose or leave the room when a smoker comes back in from his smoke break. We've all but banned the supervisor here from our office after he smokes. He's allowed in only when he doesn't stink.

It's hard to imagine that someone with such delicate sensibilities was ever in the military.

Stuntman
07-02-2010, 02:10 AM
Why do I feel that if we continue here, you will detonate?:target


Got me, you're the sensitive one.

Shrike
07-02-2010, 02:10 AM
shrike,
i dont disagree with that. the longer you live the more money you spend. it doesnt matter what aspect it is in.
i shouldve asked for numbers to prove more of a Burden to the system than costly. living a longer healthier life is NOT a burden to the system but rather using the system the way it should be used with annual checkups and things of that nature.
Yes people are going to have genetic disorders and unfortunate accidents which will raise the overall cost per person as they live longer and healthier lives.

so i rephrase--- BRAVO, whats the numbers that prove healthier people are more of a burden?

That IS the point. People that live healthy lifestyles and thus live longer lives are a greater burden on the DOD/VA health care system. In the long term it costs more taxpayer money to treat their maladies over their longer lives.

Stuntman
07-02-2010, 02:10 AM
It's hard to imagine that someone with such delicate sensibilities was ever in the military.

It ain't delicate sensibilities to not like the smell of ass. And with the level of reading comprehension you've displayed here, I'd peg you for marine infantry at best.

Shrike
07-02-2010, 02:11 AM
Still not comprehending what you read, hmmm? It will happen eventually I'm sure. Please read where I said it doesn't matter where I live in terms of air quality. I'm highly allergic to anything 'out in the country.' However, in both the city AND the country, I can go indoors to get away from pollutants....that is until a smoker returns from a smoke break and brings their stink in with them.

Perhaps icing down your vagina before you go to work will help with that.

Yep, I'm about done "comprehending" your repetitive, judgemental BS. Enjoy your shorter life...

Shrike
07-02-2010, 02:15 AM
It ain't delicate sensibilities to not like the smell of ass. And with the level of reading comprehension you've displayed here, I'd peg you for marine infantry at best.

And I'd peg you for a porn-acting gay Marine infantryman's fluffer...so what? You're still a hypocrite. <sniiiiiif> Ahhhh, fresh, country air. Enjoy your deadly city air, hypocrite.

hazard22083
07-02-2010, 02:18 AM
That IS the point. People that live healthy lifestyles and thus live longer lives are a greater burden on the DOD/VA health care system. In the long term it costs more taxpayer money to treat their maladies over their longer lives.

the military will get much more production from healthier people then the ones they have to hospitalize, then pass away. More production equals more operating profits.
so yes healthier people cost more to live in the long term but they ensure alot more positive cash flow in the long term also. thus, they, the DoD, wants us to live longer healthier lives to maximize their dollar.

so shrike, more of a burden, i disagree. more costly, no argument here. but remember, the longer we live, the more money flows inward.

hazard22083
07-02-2010, 02:21 AM
And I'd peg you for a porn-acting gay Marine infantryman's fluffer...so what? You're still a hypocrite. <sniiiiiif> Ahhhh, fresh, country air. Enjoy your deadly city air, hypocrite.

he'll argure this also, well, that is, until Congress passes DADT :cheer2

Stuntman
07-02-2010, 02:27 AM
Perhaps icing down your vagina before you go to work will help with that.

Yep, I'm about done "comprehending" your repetitive, judgemental BS. Enjoy your shorter life...

You're done comprehending? I don't see how since you have yet to do it once.

Stuntman
07-02-2010, 02:29 AM
And I'd peg you for a porn-acting gay Marine infantryman's fluffer...so what?

Don't project your hidden fantasies onto me.

And once again, since you still can't read, I'm allergic to the pollutants in the country far more so than the city. Thus, no hipocrisy here....especially when we're talking about INDOORS. Moron.

ChiefB
07-02-2010, 02:32 AM
It ain't delicate sensibilities to not like the smell of ass. And with the level of reading comprehension you've displayed here, I'd peg you for marine infantry at best.

I don't think our sensitive Marines are going to appreciate this observation.:nono

ChiefB

Stuntman
07-02-2010, 02:43 AM
I don't think our sensitive Marines are going to appreciate this observation.:nono

ChiefB

Appreciate or understand? ;)

garhkal
07-02-2010, 11:31 AM
I have no issues with being asked about smoking when I'm in for my annual check-up/PHA, because as you said, they ask about eating habits, drinking, etc. What I have a problem with is why they have to ask if I go in for a new eyeglass prescription, or a sprained ankle, or something else that is completely irrelevant.

That is a good point. Having an Annual Physical is one thing, but when you go in for a cramped muscle, or any other ailment, having them look/regard you almost as a lepper cause you smoke is another.


No. Now that we know more about smoking......now that the truth of it is literally RAMMED down people's throats on a daily basis

And as us smokers have shown (and even some non), much of that "data" they use and consider the truth is flawed, based of incorrect info or flat out made up.


If you read the attached story, you'll see that airmen have been given the boot for things as asinine as having porn....on their HOME computers.

Your kidding? I could see for kiddy porn, but regular porn? WTF?


Hell, I knew several guys when I was in who didn't get GET leave. They had to keep selling it back because they were never allowed to take it.

Sorry, but i have to call BS on this. Our command les than 2 weeks ago had to have our Personnel officer, the Xo AND the CO on a VTC (i set it up) with NECC's admiral, explaining why we had 3 people who had lost leave cause of accruing too much. This is not the first time i have seen that happen as well. Also by regs you can only sell leave back when you reinelist. IF he was not taking any period, he would be selling leave every 2 yrs.


And as to your perfume comment -- I've seen people counseled or sent home when their chosen scent causes problems for others -- so you're not entirely accurate there.


In 18.6 years i have ony seen people sent home for smelling cause of NOT having a shower/bathing/changing their clothes. NEVER for perfume etc.


As though where I live has any bearing on the topic whatsoever?

Being that according to the EPA, smoking puts out barely 15% of the toxins into the air a car does, i find it strange to see all you non smokers on about us smoking, but not harping on theowners of cars.


I have, however, had to hold my nose or leave the room when a smoker comes back in from his smoke break. We've all but banned the supervisor here from our office after he smokes. He's allowed in only when he doesn't stink.

Pray tell, how do you enforce that? If he is your supervisor, who are you to tell HIM what to do?


the military will get much more production from healthier people then the ones they have to hospitalize, then pass away. More production equals more operating profits.
so yes healthier people cost more to live in the long term but they ensure alot more positive cash flow in the long term also. thus, they, the DoD, wants us to live longer healthier lives to maximize their dollar.

How are they getting production "profits" from someone who has retired? Of all the deaths i have seen related to smoking, first off only 4 were mil. And NOT a 1 died while in. They therefore served the same time, gave the same production, and produced the same 'profit; for the govt.

Stuntman
07-02-2010, 12:43 PM
Your kidding? I could see for kiddy porn, but regular porn? WTF?


It just says "pornography." It doesn't elaborate. I'm curious as to how they even found out about it to begin with. Didn't AAFES sell adult magazines at one point?



Sorry, but i have to call BS on this. Our command les than 2 weeks ago had to have our Personnel officer, the Xo AND the CO on a VTC (i set it up) with NECC's admiral, explaining why we had 3 people who had lost leave cause of accruing too much. This is not the first time i have seen that happen as well. Also by regs you can only sell leave back when you reinelist. IF he was not taking any period, he would be selling leave every 2 yrs.


I don't know about them losing it, but the command does say when they can and can't take it. Sure, there may be times when by regs the command is forced to let them take it, but apart from that, they don't have to let them at all.



Being that according to the EPA, smoking puts out barely 15% of the toxins into the air a car does, i find it strange to see all you non smokers on about us smoking, but not harping on theowners of cars.


Cars are needed to transport. Cigarettes are not. Also, car fumes don't generally make it all the way into the office....unless your office is a garage.



Pray tell, how do you enforce that? If he is your supervisor, who are you to tell HIM what to do?


Simple. He's not 'my' supervisor. There's one supervisor in charge of the control room (where I work), but he works days. The supervisor we've "banned" after smoke breaks is the shift supervisor over the night crew and has no authority over us.

hazard22083
07-02-2010, 12:50 PM
How are they getting production "profits" from someone who has retired? Of all the deaths i have seen related to smoking, first off only 4 were mil. And NOT a 1 died while in. They therefore served the same time, gave the same production, and produced the same 'profit; for the govt.

do you not know that most retiree's are GS/Gov't employee's? whether they work on base or for another federal company. people dont die from smoking, it's the diseases caused from smoking. alot like AIDS/HIV. you have only seen 4 deaths related to smoking? noone has died from lung cancer, emphysema, heart disease? so i will give you food for thought, since you seem to have seen hundreds of deaths each year and know the exact number that has died smoking----



In the United States, smoking-related illnesses accounted for an estimated 443,600 deaths each year between 2000 and 2004. On average, these deaths occur 12 years earlier than would be expected, so the aggregate annual loss exceeds 5 million life-years. These deaths are primarily due to smoking’s role as a major cause of cancer, cardiovascular diseases, and chronic lung diseases. The known adverse health effects also include other respiratory diseases and symptoms, nuclear cataract, hip fractures, reduced female fertility, and diminished health status. Maternal smoking during pregnancy is associated with fetal growth restriction, low birth weight, and complications of pregnancy(this happens all the time). It has been estimated that 30% of cancer deaths and 20% of all premature deaths in the United States are attributable to smoking.

Shrike
07-02-2010, 12:51 PM
Don't project your hidden fantasies onto me.

And once again, since you still can't read, I'm allergic to the pollutants in the country far more so than the city. Thus, no hipocrisy here....especially when we're talking about INDOORS. Moron.

The one projecting here is you, projecting a lack of comprehension on to me. Hypocritical moron.

There, let me check the Stupid Internet Insult Tote Board...yep, we're even. Now, we can leave it at that and discontinue riding this mutual contempt merry-go-round, or we can keep on being children. It's up to you...

Shrike
07-02-2010, 12:54 PM
Your kidding? I could see for kiddy porn, but regular porn? WTF?
That whole "booted for porn on home computer" thing has been posted before. It was suggested that it was probably a misprint. Until I see proof, that's my theory.

garhkal
07-02-2010, 02:06 PM
In the United States, smoking-related illnesses accounted for an estimated 443,600 deaths each year between 2000 and 2004..

And do you know that even if a death is NOT CAUSED by smoking but 'can be linked to it' it is listed as a "Smoking related death"..... So i will take those figures with a grain of salt.

Stuntman
07-02-2010, 02:13 PM
The one projecting here is you, projecting a lack of comprehension on to me. Hypocritical moron.

There, let me check the Stupid Internet Insult Tote Board...yep, we're even. Now, we can leave it at that and discontinue riding this mutual contempt merry-go-round, or we can keep on being children. It's up to you...

It's funny to see you trying to quit the fight when you're the one who started it. You said yourself you don't smoke, therefore nothing I said about smokers should have meant one damned thing to you. Yet, despite that you decided to start hurling insults. Amusing. Expected, but amusing.

Shrike
07-02-2010, 02:21 PM
It's funny to see you trying to quit the fight when you're the one who started it. You said yourself you don't smoke, therefore nothing I said about smokers should have meant one damned thing to you. Yet, despite that you decided to start hurling insults. Amusing. Expected, but amusing.

Fine, I held out the olive branch, you swatted it away. F%ck you then. You're a self-righteous, judgemental delta Barney that lives/works in pretty much the worst environment on earth for inhaling pollutants. Yet you presume to take smokers to task. That is hypocrusy, plain and simple. Perhaps in addition to being a self-righteous, judgemental delta Barney, you're also just too dumb to realize that.

Stuntman
07-02-2010, 03:56 PM
Fine, I held out the olive branch, you swatted it away. F%ck you then. You're a self-righteous, judgemental delta Barney that lives/works in pretty much the worst environment on earth for inhaling pollutants. Yet you presume to take smokers to task. That is hypocrusy, plain and simple. Perhaps in addition to being a self-righteous, judgemental delta Barney, you're also just too dumb to realize that.

We don't need to discuss what you're too dumb to realize. If you haven't comprehended it by now, you never will. I've already addressed your points (weak as they were) but you refuse to read.

Either way, I'm kinda done with you, kiddo. Showing stupid people for what they are is only fun for awhile. After that, I get bored and move on.

imported_BRAVO10000
07-02-2010, 04:21 PM
Have you ever even been in the military? They most certainly do tell you what you can and can't do, yes even while on leave. You have to tell them where you're going, how to contact you and get a briefing if your activities include dangerous or risky hobbies. And if you do something that's not allowed while on leave...you can expect to be 'on leave' for a lot longer, when they discharge you.

:facepalm

I think this must have flown right over your head. The controlling theme was "free". My metaphoric point was simply that the health care - like leave - is EARNED. Obviously, we can't engage in illegal or prohibited activities...but I think you probably knew that. Troll.

imported_BRAVO10000
07-02-2010, 04:29 PM
1st-we earn 2.5 days of leave a month, 30 days aren't free
2nd- we have to fill out a leave form including numbers of contact and place where we will be
3rd-if we perform any high risk activity without a proper briefing AND get injured while on said activity, the military isn't obligated to cover any medical bill incurred from injury
4th- the last time i was personally on a Multi-Surgical Unit of a hospital (2 days ago), 13 of the 17 patients were there due to weight issues, diabetes mellitus type 2, heart problems, or cellulitus. walk into an MSU and you will know what im talking about.
5th- please show some of the proven by the numbers facts that show healthier people are more costly to the system
6th- here is some info on type 2 diabetes if you dont know what it is:
Type 2 diabetes, often called non-insulin dependent diabetes, is the most common form of diabetes, affecting 90% - 95% of the 21 million people with diabetes. In this article, you'll learn the basics about type 2 diabetes, including symptoms and causes, as well as type 2 diabetes in children.

What Is Type 2 Diabetes?
Unlike people with type 1 diabetes, people with type 2 diabetes produce insulin; however, either their pancreas does not produce enough insulin or the body cannot use the insulin adequately. This is called insulin resistance. When there isn't enough insulin or the insulin is not used as it should be, glucose (sugar) can't get into the body's cells. When glucose builds up in the blood instead of going into cells, the body's cells are not able to function properly. Other problems associated with the buildup of glucose in the blood include:

Dehydration. The buildup of sugar in the blood can cause an increase in urination. When the kidneys lose the glucose through the urine, a large amount of water is also lost, causing dehydration.
Diabetic Coma (Hyperosmolar nonketotic diabetic coma) . When a person with type 2 diabetes becomes severely dehydrated and is not able to drink enough fluids to make up for the fluid losses, they may develop this life-threatening complication.
Damage to the body. Over time, the high glucose levels in the blood may damage the nerves and small blood vessels of the eyes, kidneys, and heart and predispose a person to atherosclerosis (hardening) of the large arteries that can cause heart attack and stroke.


Type 2 Diabetes in Children
More and more children are being diagnosed with type 2 diabetes. Find out about type 2 diabetes symptoms in children, the diagnosis, and the treatment in WebMD's article on type 2 diabetes in childhood. If your child is at risk for childhood diabetes, it’s important to learn specific self-care tips to help prevent diabetes.

For more detail, see WebMD's article Type 2 Diabetes in Children.

Who Gets Type 2 Diabetes?
Anyone can get type 2 diabetes. However, those at highest risk for the disease are those who are obese or overweight, women who have had gestational diabetes, people with family members who have type 2 diabetes and people who have metabolic syndrome (a cluster of problems that include high cholesterol, high triglycerides, low good 'HDL' cholesterol and a high bad 'LDL' cholesterol, and high blood pressure). In addition, older people are more susceptible to developing the disease since aging makes the body less tolerant of sugars.

In addition, people who smoke, have inactive lifestyles, or have certain dietary patterns have an increased risk of developing type 2 diabetes.

-laymans terms- UNhealthy lifestyles lead to more chronic/acute diseases or illnesses, this is one example. which in turn cost more money in the healthcare system than healthy lifestyles.

Boston Colege's Center for Retirement disagrees with you....http://www.thenewsstar.com/article/20100612/BUSINESS/6120313

So does the Seattle Times ... http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/opinion/2008060102_froma19.html

Let's get international...look what the Netherlands weighs in with...http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=18711498

Just Google "healthy people cost more medical". Five minutes of research = years of information. Pwned.

imported_BRAVO10000
07-02-2010, 04:34 PM
shrike,
i dont disagree with that. the longer you live the more money you spend. it doesnt matter what aspect it is in.
i shouldve asked for numbers to prove more of a Burden to the system than costly. living a longer healthier life is NOT a burden to the system but rather using the system the way it should be used with annual checkups and things of that nature.
Yes people are going to have genetic disorders and unfortunate accidents which will raise the overall cost per person as they live longer and healthier lives.

so i rephrase--- BRAVO, whats the numbers that prove healthier people are more of a burden?

It's in my previous post. Please remember that I WORK for a living and do this from home 99% of the time, and not on Uncle Sugar's dime. Therefore, I might not be able to answer every 5 minutes....sheesh

Shrike
07-02-2010, 05:49 PM
We don't need to discuss what you're too dumb to realize. If you haven't comprehended it by now, you never will. I've already addressed your points (weak as they were) but you refuse to read.

Either way, I'm kinda done with you, kiddo. Showing stupid people for what they are is only fun for awhile. After that, I get bored and move on.

So far, all you've done is be a judgemental hypocrite. So go ahead, o' wise one - what is this great wisdom we mere mortals just can't comprehend? Because all you've shown so far is that:
1) You make idiotic statements about people's character based on if they smoke
2) You decry smokers while choosing to live and work in an environment that is bad for your lungs.

Not seeing much there that's beyond my measly comprehension skills. I think BRAVO10000 is right - you're a troll, nothing more.

Rev Mike Large
07-02-2010, 09:04 PM
Couldn't help but laugh when I read the inevitable this morning... my only surprise is that it took so many pages before the terms
"Delta Barney" and "Troll" were dusted off! LOL

hazard22083
07-02-2010, 11:44 PM
It's in my previous post. Please remember that I WORK for a living and do this from home 99% of the time, and not on Uncle Sugar's dime. Therefore, I might not be able to answer every 5 minutes....sheesh

Too-shay!

like i said i dont argue that we will cost more in health care because we live 20-40 years longer( i posted that after the 6 point one). that is almost common sense, facts do back that up.
i've forgot what the initial debate was...i'll leave it with this, choose to smoke = more illnesses and shorter life. a ton of more health care costs initially, obviously alot less in the longer term since they will be sleeping with the tales from the crypt dude early.

hazard22083
07-02-2010, 11:46 PM
Boston Colege's Center for Retirement disagrees with you....http://www.thenewsstar.com/article/20100612/BUSINESS/6120313

So does the Seattle Times ... http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/opinion/2008060102_froma19.html

Let's get international...look what the Netherlands weighs in with...http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=18711498

Just Google "healthy people cost more medical". Five minutes of research = years of information. Pwned.

a quick FYI...the seattle times one was an opinion.

imported_BRAVO10000
07-03-2010, 12:26 AM
Have you ever even been in the military? They most certainly do tell you what you can and can't do, yes even while on leave. You have to tell them where you're going, how to contact you and get a briefing if your activities include dangerous or risky hobbies. And if you do something that's not allowed while on leave...you can expect to be 'on leave' for a lot longer, when they discharge you.

Stuntman - I've been in the miltary since we were a legitimate, stand-alone warfighting branch wearing Forrest Gump greens and referring to anything negative as "Commie" or "Pinko". We used to short-sheet guys that wanted to start sh*t by playing word games. You conveniently focused on and responded to a single sentence, and eliminated the contextual support. That isn't debate - it's looking for conflict. Well, brother, conflict is what I DO. I am a firmly-entrenched, passive-aggressive, middle-aged SNCO. In other words...I am one of the TELLERS. I wake up in hopes of finding someone that will piss me off. Congrats, today is your day.

I don't know if you're looking for a battle of wits, but you would be wise to back up your position with the full facts and not just the contrived portions that back up your half-assed position. Public Comm 101 - when asserting a conclusion, be prepared to support AND defend your points. Research the supporting data AND data to the contrary. Yeah...the kid booted for porn on his personal PC? He had it in the AOR, where people get things lopped off for committing crimes.

Re-asserting my original point of contention...that is that our benefits package are not a FAVOR - they are a benefit. I don't deny leave unless mission dictates that I must do so, because it is an ENTITLEMENT and it is earned. I know where the guy is going and how to get ahold of him...I don't tell him what to eat every day or what time his "lights out" is. The point was (and is) that people would presume to deny benefits to a veteran based on lifestyle, when he has met or exceeded every standard (inlcuding PT) and served meritoriously...and that position is bollocks, IMO.

Don't worry - soon enough, they'll look to replace that cheeseburger of yours with a tofu concoction of some sort.



so i rephrase--- BRAVO, whats the numbers that prove healthier people are more of a burden?

Haz, if I put something out there that is an asserted conclusion, I will generally qualify it with "I think"...or something of that nature. Macht nichts - yeah, got it, smoking is bad. At the same time, I prefer not to be jerked off by the machine telling me that they need me to do PT because they give a rat's fat arse about my quality of life or long term health (which is how I knew...research in an effort to rebut). It is image - the same driver behind the PT program - to protect that precious defense funding. I'm not calling you out to prove YOUR asserted conclusion...because, as a regular here, I feel that you're generally credible enough to honor your statements as founded so long as they remain coherent. Being fair - you should have afforded me the same latitude. :-)

Stuntman
07-03-2010, 12:38 AM
I think this must have flown right over your head. The controlling theme was "free". My metaphoric point was simply that the health care - like leave - is EARNED. Obviously, we can't engage in illegal or prohibited activities...but I think you probably knew that. Troll.

Yeah, I suppose if I made an asinine statement like the one you did, I'd probably say it was a "metaphor" as well. Good cover.

Stuntman
07-03-2010, 12:49 AM
So far, all you've done is be a judgemental hypocrite. So go ahead, o' wise one - what is this great wisdom we mere mortals just can't comprehend? Because all you've shown so far is that:
1) You make idiotic statements about people's character based on if they smoke
2) You decry smokers while choosing to live and work in an environment that is bad for your lungs.

Not seeing much there that's beyond my measly comprehension skills. I think BRAVO10000 is right - you're a troll, nothing more.

Oh yeah, I'm the troll and you've continued to ignore what I've said for 8+ pages now. You're a twit.

Let me be as clear as I can for you, since I know you need the help.

1) It's already been stated (pages ago) that there are no "good, healthy" reasons to start smoking. The reasons everyone seems to give for starting include but are not limited to -- peer pressure; to be 'cool,' to 'fit in,' etc. Therefore, no one looks at inhaling SMOKE into their lungs and figures it will be a healthy, worthwhile habbit to start. So, we can only conclude that those who began under the other, more common reasons, are of weak character because they couldn't say no to peer pressure or the desire to 'fit in' on smoke breaks.

2) It doesn't matter what environment you live in when smokers ruin the air INDOORS. We all need cars to get around, and most of the population of the country is in cities. That's not really relevant, however, since no matter where non-smokers live, they don't add to the pollutants they take in by smoking. Nor do they force those around them to do the same. Smokers on the other hand do exactly that. Even in the most smog-filled city in the country, non-smokers "should" be able to seek refuge from the pollutants inside. However, if they work with a smoker who couldn't resist the urge to go burn one, their 'inside' area is made to smell like ass.

Stuntman
07-03-2010, 12:57 AM
You conveniently focused on and responded to a single sentence, and eliminated the contextual support.


I focused on the part I thought was a ridiculous statement.


Congrats, today is your day.


Let me know when I should start shaking, ok?


I don't know if you're looking for a battle of wits, but you would be wise to back up your position with the full facts and not just the contrived portions that back up your half-assed position.

Facts to support that smokers stink when they return from their smoke break? Yeah, let me grab a national survey of that really quick.



Don't worry - soon enough, they'll look to replace that cheeseburger of yours with a tofu concoction of some sort.


So long as they eliminate cigarettes before that, I'm fine. Hell I usually choose chicken these days anyway.

imported_BRAVO10000
07-03-2010, 01:07 AM
Yeah, I suppose if I made an asinine statement like the one you did, I'd probably say it was a "metaphor" as well. Good cover.

You mean asinine statements...like these?


..... car fumes don't generally make it all the way into the office....unless your office is a garage.

Yeah. CO2 doesn't like the indoors. Nevermind that the air circulating in there comes from (*gasp*) outside...


You forgot that they have the biggest egos out there....And your continued suspicions of my motives border on the paranoid schizophrenic.

You wouldn't worry about what people think of you if you realized how infrequently it happens. And I'll tell you this - if I were to land in a spot that was the top 1% of my field? I'd have an ego. Not saying that you're right, because you aren't, but I think I would.


Not at all. As I said, I live in the city. Almost 32 years in one and zero ill effects so far. I haven't even noticed any negative effects on 'so-called' ozone days.

So ignoring all the scientific evidence of the air quality in big cities makes sense, while bemoaning the fugitive particle emissions coming off a smoker's shirt? Makes perfect sense.


Please read where I said it doesn't matter where I live in terms of air quality. I'm highly allergic to anything 'out in the country.' However, in both the city AND the country, I can go indoors to get away from pollutants....that is until a smoker returns from a smoke break and brings their stink in with them.

Unless you live in a hepa-filtered environment, this is just way over the top. Microbic particles pass through doors, air vents and everything...I know, sneaky little buggers, huh?

You jumped out there, Smarg, and hijacked a perfectly-lucid point. Defensive, smart-assy comments don't earn you any credibility. I am certain that you'll say that you don't care...which can be explained by the long list of answers you've given (in other words, you clearly DO care).

Here's a tissue for your snotty nose, allergy boy.

Stuntman
07-03-2010, 01:15 AM
Yeah. CO2 doesn't like the indoors. Nevermind that the air circulating in there comes from (*gasp*) outside...


Yeah, and many air conditioners have filters. You know, those things you change out regularly to keep things from getting in your home?



You wouldn't worry about what people think of you if you realized how infrequently it happens. And I'll tell you this - if I were to land in a spot that was the top 1% of my field? I'd have an ego. Not saying that you're right, because you aren't, but I think I would.


Most of the SNCO's I knew got there by ass-kissing mostly. This is the chair force we're talking about, after all.



So ignoring all the scientific evidence of the air quality in big cities makes sense, while bemoaning the fugitive particle emissions coming off a smoker's shirt? Makes perfect sense.


Considering that the pollution warnings that come out tell people to stay INDOORS, I'd wager the air is at least a little better inside that outside. That is, at least until the smokers walk in smelling all to be damned.



You jumped out there, Smarg, and hijacked a perfectly-lucid point. Defensive, smart-assy comments don't earn you any credibility.

Credibility.....on an internet message board. That's rich. Tell me another one, please.



Here's a tissue for your snotty nose, allergy boy.

Wow that's clever. Did you work on that while avoiding the last 8 pages of conversation? Is that why it took you so long to reply?

imported_BRAVO10000
07-03-2010, 01:29 AM
Yeah, and many air conditioners have filters. You know, those things you change out regularly to keep things from getting in your home?

Most of the SNCO's I knew got there by ass-kissing mostly. This is the chair force we're talking about, after all.

Considering that the pollution warnings that come out tell people to stay INDOORS, I'd wager the air is at least a little better inside that outside. That is, at least until the smokers walk in smelling all to be damned.

Credibility.....on an internet message board. That's rich. Tell me another one, please.

Wow that's clever. Did you work on that while avoiding the last 8 pages of conversation? Is that why it took you so long to reply?

Bark bark yip yap bark... Dude, you're like this dumb chihuahua that used to chase my bike when I was a kid. Here he would come, and I'd let him get close, jump a curb and watch him eat stir-fried sh*t when it took his legs out from under him. But then...he would hop up and growl, as if embarrassed that he had fallen for it again.

Your sour grapes for the Air Force are as clear as your disdain for smokers. Okay, got it. But this is an Air Force board...if you hated it so much, why are you still here? It's a free country, so as you will...but watch the curb.

Stuntman
07-03-2010, 01:33 AM
Bark bark yip yap bark... Dude, you're like this dumb chihuahua that used to chase my bike when I was a kid. Here he would come, and I'd let him get close, jump a curb and watch him eat stir-fried sh*t when it took his legs out from under him. But then...he would hop up and growl, as if embarrassed that he had fallen for it again.

Your sour grapes for the Air Force are as clear as your disdain for smokers. Okay, got it. But this is an Air Force board...if you hated it so much, why are you still here? It's a free country, so as you will...but watch the curb.

You're making even less sense now than the first asinine comment you made that brought me into this thread. Not that I'm surprised. The ability to make sense must decrease as you age.

hazard22083
07-03-2010, 01:38 AM
Haz, if I put something out there that is an asserted conclusion, I will generally qualify it with "I think"...or something of that nature. Macht nichts - yeah, got it, smoking is bad. At the same time, I prefer not to be jerked off by the machine telling me that they need me to do PT because they give a rat's fat arse about my quality of life or long term health (which is how I knew...research in an effort to rebut). It is image - the same driver behind the PT program - to protect that precious defense funding. I'm not calling you out to prove YOUR asserted conclusion...because, as a regular here, I feel that you're generally credible enough to honor your statements as founded so long as they remain coherent. Being fair - you should have afforded me the same latitude. :-)

point well taken. i am young (27), stubborn,opinionated, and statements i make may lack tactfulness (at times). i enjoy reading your posts, they are highly entertaining and well written, but i too love to debate with facts and figures. you do and always have had my respect.

Shrike
07-03-2010, 02:11 AM
Oh yeah, I'm the troll and you've continued to ignore what I've said for 8+ pages now. You're a twit.

Let me be as clear as I can for you, since I know you need the help.

1) It's already been stated (pages ago) that there are no "good, healthy" reasons to start smoking. The reasons everyone seems to give for starting include but are not limited to -- peer pressure; to be 'cool,' to 'fit in,' etc. Therefore, no one looks at inhaling SMOKE into their lungs and figures it will be a healthy, worthwhile habbit to start. So, we can only conclude that those who began under the other, more common reasons, are of weak character because they couldn't say no to peer pressure or the desire to 'fit in' on smoke breaks.

2) It doesn't matter what environment you live in when smokers ruin the air INDOORS. We all need cars to get around, and most of the population of the country is in cities. That's not really relevant, however, since no matter where non-smokers live, they don't add to the pollutants they take in by smoking. Nor do they force those around them to do the same. Smokers on the other hand do exactly that. Even in the most smog-filled city in the country, non-smokers "should" be able to seek refuge from the pollutants inside. However, if they work with a smoker who couldn't resist the urge to go burn one, their 'inside' area is made to smell like ass.

Yep, just as I thought. Idiot troll.

garhkal
07-03-2010, 06:16 AM
Oh yeah, I'm the troll and you've continued to ignore what I've said for 8+ pages now. You're a twit.

Let me be as clear as I can for you, since I know you need the help.

1) It's already been stated (pages ago) that there are no "good, healthy" reasons to start smoking. The reasons everyone seems to give for starting include but are not limited to -- peer pressure; to be 'cool,' to 'fit in,' etc. Therefore, no one looks at inhaling SMOKE into their lungs and figures it will be a healthy, worthwhile habbit to start. So, we can only conclude that those who began under the other, more common reasons, are of weak character because they couldn't say no to peer pressure or the desire to 'fit in' on smoke breaks.

The same can be said for alcohol. And unlike smoking which MIGHT only affect others via secod hand smoke (in my opinion the jury is still deliberating this), DUIs DO cause death an serious injury to as many people as second hand smoke does (well imo from how many times i read about multiple people injured cause of a dui) As for benefits. I don't know any from alcohol (though wine i don't consider an alcohol).

imported_BRAVO10000
07-03-2010, 06:44 AM
You're making even less sense now than the first asinine comment you made that brought me into this thread. Not that I'm surprised. The ability to make sense must decrease as you age.

I see. So if I am reading you right, you believe that any benefit we get is a gift, and not something we earn as part of our compensation? That was my so-called asinine point... simply, that our medical benefits are earned and not "free", as it was expressed. I went further to confuse you by comparing our medical benefits to our pay and our leave - the metaphoric point that I referred to, the one you mistakenly called a "cover".

Secondary point - smoking is not illegal and therefore does not (and should not) make you ineligible for health care.

Both of my points were about our benefits...not in support of smoking. When I say "our", I am not referring to you, since you are "out", as you put it (unless you meant something different, at which point I would refer you to the DADT threads). I would elaborate, but I think i would lose you...if you can't follow my simple, direct points then I don't expect you'll understand anything beyond a 5th grade level of comprehension anyway - it would be wasted prose.

So - you can go back to loathing the Air Force that you apparently couldn't hack, and I'll go back to my SNCO "ass-kissing mostly".

Stuntman
07-03-2010, 06:54 AM
Yep, just as I thought. Idiot troll.

Yes you are. Glad you can admit it.

Stuntman
07-03-2010, 06:55 AM
The same can be said for alcohol. And unlike smoking which MIGHT only affect others via secod hand smoke (in my opinion the jury is still deliberating this), DUIs DO cause death an serious injury to as many people as second hand smoke does (well imo from how many times i read about multiple people injured cause of a dui) As for benefits. I don't know any from alcohol (though wine i don't consider an alcohol).

Yes, but we have many, many laws against drinking and driving. But every time they come up with a new law or ordnance about smoking, the smokers always complain.

Stuntman
07-03-2010, 07:04 AM
I see. So if I am reading you right, you believe that any benefit we get is a gift, and not something we earn as part of our compensation?

Nope, you're reading wrong, again. I never made mention of gifts vs. earned benefits. You're thinking of someone else. My comment was about how you seem to think the military doesn't get to tell you what you can and can't do.



Secondary point - smoking is not illegal and therefore does not (and should not) make you ineligible for health care.


Never said it did or should. But I do think it should be banned. It's already banned during training. Why not just ban it period?



Both of my points were about our benefits...not in support of smoking.


Actually, as I indicated, your point was (or appeared to be) that the military has no say in our lives, to which I replied that they did.

The rest of this fracas was, I guess, either you confusing me with the other poster or not understanding what I said.
I never said it should. I do, however, think it couldn't hurt to ban it. It's not allowed in training such as basic, I say make it not allowed period.

imported_BRAVO10000
07-03-2010, 07:04 AM
Yes you are. Glad you can admit it.

I know you are but what am I???

http://ordable.com/img/lists/who-is-the-greatest-entertainer-of-all-time/items/2707200918381PeeWeeHerman.jpg

Stuntman
07-03-2010, 07:12 AM
I know you are but what am I???

http://ordable.com/img/lists/who-is-the-greatest-entertainer-of-all-time/items/2707200918381PeeWeeHerman.jpg

Ok, on that one I did have to laugh. :laugh

imported_BRAVO10000
07-03-2010, 07:23 AM
Nope, you're reading wrong, again. I never made mention of gifts vs. earned benefits. You're thinking of someone else. My comment was about how you seem to think the military doesn't get to tell you what you can and can't do...


The rest of this fracas was, I guess, either you confusing me with the other poster or not understanding what I said.

The "fracas began when you responded to one of my rants...I call them "reasons to avoid sobriety". My post - the one you leapt on...


By your logic, since we are receiving 30 days of leave a year for FREE...does the government have a right to know what we do every day on leave? What about how we spend our FREE paycheck?

In other words...fail. I would say that your assertion misses the mark by a few thousand feet, and the DoD's position would last about as long as a lost chicken that wandered into Ethiopia. That health care isn't a perk, like a cup of coffee in the bakery - it is a benefit, part of the compensation package that comes with joining the Armed Services and it doesn't come with conditions like that. It would be awfully presumptuous of the DoD to decide to scrutinize lifestyles while your veins are still surging with untested innoculations, the twice-saturated fats from MREs, and the tar and nicotine from the free 5-pack of Marlboros that came out of a package of K rats. Aren't these the same people that nuked several hundred of their own to see what would happen? Give that some thought while doing laps around the burn pit.

Don't talk to me about the cost - we have mentioned here many, many times that healthy people live longer and create a greater burden to the health care system - proven by the numbers. Seriously - when my tax dollars are funding women on welfare that believe that the vajayjay is an income-generating clown car, are we really suggesting the denial of benefits to a veteran of any kind?

...was in response to THIS post...


do we have any alcoholics in here that are offended by the techs in the hospital asking how much per day/week they drink? (rhetorical question)
we are all receiving free(if active duty) health care. to continue this FREE healthcare they have EVERY right to know how we treat our bodies. if someone comes down with emphysema/kidney failure at an early age, we all probably know someone who has, and it is documented that they have been smoking/drinking excessively for years, they may be denied the proper medical coverage due to personal negligence. Also, the way we eat is asked on the questionnaires to come to the same conclusion. dont take offense to it, it is the AF way of saving money in the future if they can.

yes, i am a non-smoker. i hate the smell of smoke, but i dont hate smokers. it is your choice to smoke. EVERYONE knows the consequences that can come of excessively indulging in this expensive habit. just dont bitch when the AF covers their own ass. just realize that smoking isnt the only habit they question their patients about.

conclusion--- people over-eat, people over drink, and people over-smoke. dont lie, or take offense, because lab tests or xrays will tell the truth. Money, nowadays, is everything.

My core point(s) are bold. The half-sentence that you responded to (while ignoring the context) is in red. I don't believe I misunderstood anything. I have been in for close to 24 years - yes, I am acutely aware of our higher standards of conduct and behavior. The point was - and is - we are still American veterans that are entitled to all liberties that the law allows, and all of the benefits associated with our military service. I will never support the idea that military men and women owe anything for the medical care that they receive.

Stuntman
07-03-2010, 12:30 PM
My core point(s) are bold. The half-sentence that you responded to (while ignoring the context) is in red.

As I said when you finally got around to addressing me. I addressed the comments I found to be the most asinine. If you were being sarcastic to hazard, it didn't come across. That means your communication failed. As I learned in my professional development courses in the military, communication is only a success when the message you sent is the same as the one received by the other party. In this case, it wasn't. You and hazard were the ones talking about benefits. I addressed the part that seemed to be the most ridiculous as I know full well what our benefits were in the military.

Capt Alfredo
07-03-2010, 12:50 PM
As for benefits. I don't know any from alcohol (though wine i don't consider an alcohol).

I'll have to use that when 2430Mz pulls me over. But, OCCIFER! Garhkal said wine wasn't alcohol! How could I be drunk!?

Shrike
07-03-2010, 02:12 PM
The same can be said for alcohol. And unlike smoking which MIGHT only affect others via secod hand smoke (in my opinion the jury is still deliberating this), DUIs DO cause death an serious injury to as many people as second hand smoke does (well imo from how many times i read about multiple people injured cause of a dui) As for benefits. I don't know any from alcohol (though wine i don't consider an alcohol).
Some benefits of those with moderate alcohol consumption vs. non-drinkers/heavy drinkers: (http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/AlcoholAndHealth.html) Longevity, greater overall health, lower risk of heart attack and stroke plus greater ability to survive heart attacks, lower risk of high blood pressure and Type 2 diabetes, lower risk for alzheimer's disease and other dementias, and more.

Note: Moderate is defined as one to three drinks per day.

And just out of curiosity, do you consider beer an alcohol? Because wine has anywhere from three to five times as much alcohol by volume as beer does.

imported_BRAVO10000
07-03-2010, 02:46 PM
As I said when you finally got around to addressing me. I addressed the comments I found to be the most asinine. If you were being sarcastic to hazard, it didn't come across. That means your communication failed. As I learned in my professional development courses in the military, communication is only a success when the message you sent is the same as the one received by the other party. In this case, it wasn't. You and hazard were the ones talking about benefits. I addressed the part that seemed to be the most ridiculous as I know full well what our benefits were in the military.

I finally got around to addressing you a full day later...sorry to make you wait, but I am a SNCO. it was a Friday, and there was a whole line of backside to smooch.

If I write in perfect English - but you are too illiterate to read it - how is that MY fail?

It's clear that you are looking for a confrontation versus a debate. You look for holes and play word games, and neither of these contributes anything to the discussion. I am left to presume that you are on Obama's campaign committee...regardless, my interest in persisting in this pointless drivel with you has certainly expired. You can go pull the wings off of a housefly for entertainment, and I'll make use of my Ignore feature, lest I be tempted to further feed the troll. Buh-bye then.

StephenH
07-03-2010, 03:46 PM
Oh yeah, I'm the troll and .... smell like ass.

You said it....

2430 MHz
07-03-2010, 11:23 PM
I'll have to use that when 2430Mz pulls me over. But, OCCIFER! Garhkal said wine wasn't alcohol! How could I be drunk!?

lol, 1 shot, 1 beer, 1 glass of wine...depending on the sizes/proofs of course, are ALL alcohol

I'm an Occifer of da law, you're an Occifer of El Presidente, we're all Occifers

......Are people STILL arguing over smoking? What is there to argue about? It's bad for you which everyone knows and a lot of non smokers dont like the smell of old cigarette smoke on clothing

Technically I guess this could fall into the same category of an airman who puts on too much cologne/perfume and starts to stink up the office and make it a poor work environment for everyone else.

I'm sure a Commander could start making "cigarette smell" a punishable offense, although smokers "demand their rights to smoke"....then again, it's within the military's authority to tell you to quit immediately, just like they did in BMT. You are their property, they ORDERED you to immediately stop smoking. Done deal

I think they had wanted to do this same thing while deployed in Iraq right? But of course the chain smokers would throw a fit and have a nervous breakdown. Smoking is how the smokers "survived the stress of being deployed"....but then how did everyone else survive the stress who didnt smoke?

garhkal
07-04-2010, 06:21 AM
Yes, but we have many, many laws against drinking and driving. But every time they come up with a new law or ordnance about smoking, the smokers always complain.

Yes we do have laws against drinking and driving, but do we have laws against drinking (as far as where, how far from a building etc)? No. Both are legal products, taxed, but its only smoking that gets hit as for where/when/how you ca use it..


I'll have to use that when 2430Mz pulls me over. But, OCCIFER! Garhkal said wine wasn't alcohol! How could I be drunk!?

Some officers i know actually feel the same way... Heck one has it in his head cider is also not an alcohol..


And just out of curiosity, do you consider beer an alcohol? Because wine has anywhere from three to five times as much alcohol by volume as beer does.

The reason i don't consider wine an alcholic drink is it is made more for other reasons than being a strong alcoholic content. beer etc is not. Well to my pov.

Shrike
07-04-2010, 01:16 PM
The reason i don't consider wine an alcholic drink is it is made more for other reasons than being a strong alcoholic content. beer etc is not. Well to my pov.
I'm not sure I get what you're saying.

garhkal
07-05-2010, 01:28 AM
I guess, since i was raised in england, where like europe, wine is taken with meals, not really drunk on it's own like beer or spirits, i don't think it is a 'alcoholic' beverage.. more of a support beverage..

Shrike
07-05-2010, 01:55 AM
I guess, since i was raised in england, where like europe, wine is taken with meals, not really drunk on it's own like beer or spirits, i don't think it is a 'alcoholic' beverage.. more of a support beverage..

Okay, got ya. Although you can get pretty ripped pretty easily off of wine if you're not watching it.

garhkal
07-05-2010, 01:41 PM
I'll give ya that.

Measure Man
07-07-2010, 11:39 PM
Well...the anti-tobacco campaign has struck a new low with an opinion letter published in today's Stars and Stripes:

http://www.stripes.com/opinion/letters-to-the-editor/smokeless-tobacco-is-not-a-heroic-image-1.110192

To summarize, the author didn't feel that the photo of SFC Monti, who was posthumously awarded the Medal of Honor for actions to save his troop's life in Afghanistan, represented a professional military image because he was using smokeless tobacco.

Be sure to read the "comments" after the letter...it'll restore your faith just a bit.

Stuntman
07-08-2010, 02:34 AM
You said it....

Yeah...that's real mature of you there, kiddo.

Stuntman
07-08-2010, 02:35 AM
Yes we do have laws against drinking and driving, but do we have laws against drinking (as far as where, how far from a building etc)? No. Both are legal products, taxed, but its only smoking that gets hit as for where/when/how you ca use it..
.

When you drink, if I'm sitting next to you, I can still breathe. If you're smoking, and I'm sitting next to you, one of us has to leave or I can't breathe. There is a difference.

StephenH
07-08-2010, 10:41 AM
When you drink, if I'm sitting next to you, I can still breathe. If you're smoking, and I'm sitting next to you, one of us has to leave or I can't breathe. There is a difference.

You are in the military I take it (i'm guessing possibly a male stewardess). No offense but who joins the military just to whine about smokers? Maybe it is time to rethink the old career choice. If you can't breath near smokers, man up and move out of the smoke pit.

StephenH
07-08-2010, 10:49 AM
Well...the anti-tobacco campaign has struck a new low with an opinion letter published in today's Stars and Stripes:

http://www.stripes.com/opinion/letters-to-the-editor/smokeless-tobacco-is-not-a-heroic-image-1.110192

To summarize, the author didn't feel that the photo of SFC Monti, who was posthumously awarded the Medal of Honor for actions to save his troop's life in Afghanistan, represented a professional military image because he was using smokeless tobacco.

Be sure to read the "comments" after the letter...it'll restore your faith just a bit.

I like ChiefB's comment


The "military image" this man projected was that of a hero. The "military image" you have projected is an insensitive, disrespectful, nit-picking, whiner. I much prefer the former. Thank you S&S.

Written by ChiefB, 7 July 2010 21:25

.

Stuntman
07-08-2010, 12:55 PM
You are in the military I take it (i'm guessing possibly a male stewardess). No offense but who joins the military just to whine about smokers? Maybe it is time to rethink the old career choice. If you can't breath near smokers, man up and move out of the smoke pit.

Perhaps it's time for the smokers to leave. If they can give it up while in training status (which by the way is mandatory) then they should be able to give it up the rest of the time too.

Cute attempt at an insult with the male stewardess comment. Sadly though, you fail.

StephenH
07-08-2010, 01:05 PM
Perhaps it's time for the smokers to leave. If they can give it up while in training status (which by the way is mandatory) then they should be able to give it up the rest of the time too.


It is only mandatory during duty hours and selectively enforced. Nice try though. If the Air Force booted tobacco users they would lose about one third of their people.

I think you are one of those people that hates smokers for no good reason, except that it is the new "in" thing to do (like flipping out over Al Gore's erroneous global warming). So let me pass that "fail" right back at ya...

Stuntman
07-08-2010, 02:02 PM
It is only mandatory during duty hours and selectively enforced. Nice try though. If the Air Force booted tobacco users they would lose about one third of their people.


Wrong again. In basic training you aren't allowed tobacco products of any kind.



I think you are one of those people that hates smokers for no good reason, except that it is the new "in" thing to do (like flipping out over Al Gore's erroneous global warming). So let me pass that "fail" right back at ya...

No no, you keep the fail. I've already said (as have others) why I dislike smokers. Not only does it smell like crap when they finally come strolling back into the workplace after their smoke breaks, but I'm also allergic to it. So again, you fail.

StephenH
07-08-2010, 02:17 PM
No no, you keep the fail. I've already said (as have others) why I dislike smokers. Not only does it smell like crap when they finally come strolling back into the workplace after their smoke breaks, but I'm also allergic to it. So again, you fail.

If I threw a fit about every little thing that bothered me, I'd be no different than you: chick with strong perfume, nasty. Army dudes with rotten foot odor in the gym locker room, disgusting. People that spend half the duty day sitting around talking basketball, what a waste. Can we boot all of these people because the bug me? Probably not a solid reason.

You have no concept of individual rights, and that scares me.

imported_Sgt HULK
07-08-2010, 02:23 PM
not only that but he has his army mittens on too gasp


Well...the anti-tobacco campaign has struck a new low with an opinion letter published in today's Stars and Stripes:

http://www.stripes.com/opinion/letters-to-the-editor/smokeless-tobacco-is-not-a-heroic-image-1.110192

To summarize, the author didn't feel that the photo of SFC Monti, who was posthumously awarded the Medal of Honor for actions to save his troop's life in Afghanistan, represented a professional military image because he was using smokeless tobacco.

Be sure to read the "comments" after the letter...it'll restore your faith just a bit.

2430 MHz
07-09-2010, 01:21 AM
If I threw a fit about every little thing that bothered me, I'd be no different than you: chick with strong perfume, nasty. Army dudes with rotten foot odor in the gym locker room, disgusting. People that spend half the duty day sitting around talking basketball, what a waste. Can we boot all of these people because the bug me? Probably not a solid reason.

You have no concept of individual rights, and that scares me.

Actually.....people CAN get booted eventually and/or get paperwork for those things

I've been told about new airman snuffy who we just got in who was placed on a showering schedule. airman snuffy wearing too much cologne and needing to put an end to it. airman snuffy who has horrible foot odor and is told to see the doctor and purchase foot powder...etc....

You are gov property....you cannot come to work smelling like you havent showered in 3 weeks....you will get paperwork and will be sent back home to shower

BFavrah
07-09-2010, 01:51 AM
I see both sides, but to side with Stephen, do they ever ask you if you are one of those tards who ride around base with the crappy, loud stereos when you do poorly on a hearing test?

Stuntman
07-09-2010, 02:55 AM
You have no concept of individual rights, and that scares me.

You apparently have no concept of what it means to be in the military (2430 MHz pointed out the holes in your arguments). You see, as government property (GIs) there are many "rights" and "freedoms" that you do not get to enjoy, yet you fight for. It's the nature of the beast. You know this when you sign the dotted line and if at any time during your career you have a problem with that fact, all you have to do is not re-enlist. Simple. However, as long as you're GI, you will abide by their rules. If they say don't smoke, you don't smoke. If they say take a shower, you take a shower. If they say jump, your only answer should be "how high?"

Stuntman
07-09-2010, 02:56 AM
I see both sides, but to side with Stephen, do they ever ask you if you are one of those tards who ride around base with the crappy, loud stereos when you do poorly on a hearing test?

They don't need to. The base cops generally handle those tards. From what I understand, the base noise restrictions are tighter than they are on the civilian side.

Golther
07-09-2010, 07:43 AM
Stuntman you seem to be one of those guys that never challenges or questions ANYTHING. Problem with that is that NOTHING gets changed, but sadly because of how much complaining you do if you were a general or something you would have smoking banned and what ever lever you were in charge of. In a sick sort of way I would like to see that to watch your troops morale plummet, because a sizable portion of your workforce just had their drug-of-choice yanked away from them. Much like have you seen a caffeine-addict not have his morning coffee or can you at least relate to that to see my point?

Stuntman
07-09-2010, 08:59 AM
Stuntman you seem to be one of those guys that never challenges or questions ANYTHING.

On the contrary. I question what's worth questioning. Smoking isn't necessary. It's not healthy and it stinks. The facts are very clear about this. Even former smokers say it stinks.


I would like to see that to watch your troops morale plummet, because a sizable portion of your workforce just had their drug-of-choice yanked away from them.

Key word there = drug. They ban other drugs, why not nicotine? They've already banned it on submarines in the Navy. It's really just a matter of time.


Much like have you seen a caffeine-addict not have his morning coffee or can you at least relate to that to see my point?

Once again, the difference there is if I'm downing a 6-pack of coke, I'm not bothering anyone else around me. I don't need a 15-minute break outside every hour or every two hours to have a coke. I can do that while I work and not bother anyone.

See, it's funny to me. This thread is called "harassing smokers." And in this thread, people try and say "Well if you live in a city, with all that bad air, you're a hypocrite for hating on smoking." The thing is, there are an increasing number of laws to clean city air. They are forcing better standards for cars, they are limiting what companies can and can't do. Yet you don't hear drivers or factory workers bitching about being "harassed," only smokers.

I find that funny.

StephenH
07-09-2010, 09:26 AM
You apparently have no concept of what it means to be in the military (2430 MHz pointed out the holes in your arguments). You see, as government property (GIs) there are many "rights" and "freedoms" that you do not get to enjoy, yet you fight for. It's the nature of the beast. You know this when you sign the dotted line and if at any time during your career you have a problem with that fact, all you have to do is not re-enlist. Simple. However, as long as you're GI, you will abide by their rules. If they say don't smoke, you don't smoke. If they say take a shower, you take a shower. If they say jump, your only answer should be "how high?"

Is it me, or does your post have nothing to do with the smokers/nonsmokers debate...? We are currently allowed to use tobacco so your pointless rant is just that. If the military banned tobacco completely, that would be a whole new can of worms.... I don't see it happening any time soon.

Stuntman
07-09-2010, 09:31 AM
Is it me, or does your post have nothing to do with the smokers/nonsmokers debate...? We are currently allowed to use tobacco so your pointless rant is just that. If the military banned tobacco completely, that would be a whole new can of worms.... I don't see it happening any time soon.

You're too late. As I already pointed out (but you apparently didn't see) the Navy has already banned smoking on its subs. All branches ban smoking during basic training/boot camp.

It's just a matter of time.

(Also, if you'll take the time to notice this thread has reached 21 pages in length. I've already had many, many posts on the subject. Feel free to peruse them at your leisure. I won't be re-typing them just because you chose to come into a 21-page thread on page 20 and not read anything prior.

garhkal
07-09-2010, 11:03 AM
I see both sides, but to side with Stephen, do they ever ask you if you are one of those tards who ride around base with the crappy, loud stereos when you do poorly on a hearing test?

That is a good point. Heck, i would also like to see Basketball and baseball banned for mil folks cause of the amot of people i have seen get on limdu cause of breaking something while playing it on their off time.


They don't need to. The base cops generally handle those tards. From what I understand, the base noise restrictions are tighter than they are on the civilian side.

That may be, but it does nothng when they are not on base, nor does it stop those people (and all of us have seen them) who have earphones in but you can still hear the music/song clear as if he had a boom box playing... Should they get done for damaging their hearing?


Once again, the difference there is if I'm downing a 6-pack of coke, I'm not bothering anyone else around me. I don't need a 15-minute break outside every hour or every two hours to have a coke. I can do that while I work and not bother anyone.

I see more people wasting time at and around the coffee mess than those who smoke. We go out, suck down our nicotine and get right back to it. A LOT of those who are coffee drinkers, mingle and chat around the coffee pot.. so that is a slam against what you said.

Stuntman
07-09-2010, 01:31 PM
That may be, but it does nothng when they are not on base, nor does it stop those people (and all of us have seen them) who have earphones in but you can still hear the music/song clear as if he had a boom box playing... Should they get done for damaging their hearing?


If it interferes with their ability to do their job (ie they fall below the hearing standards for their job) then yes.



I see more people wasting time at and around the coffee mess than those who smoke. We go out, suck down our nicotine and get right back to it. A LOT of those who are coffee drinkers, mingle and chat around the coffee pot.. so that is a slam against what you said.

And what you have seen is not the same as what I've seen. I've seen people tear through cup after cup after cup *at* their desks while they were working. They can't do that with smoking, however. And though you may have seen them "burn one" really quick and get right back to work, others will sit there and nurse their cigarette for all its worth because "the break lasts as long as the cigarette break."

imported_WILDJOKER5
07-09-2010, 01:42 PM
If it interferes with their ability to do their job (ie they fall below the hearing standards for their job) then yes.



And what you have seen is not the same as what I've seen. I've seen people tear through cup after cup after cup *at* their desks while they were working. They can't do that with smoking, however. And though you may have seen them "burn one" really quick and get right back to work, others will sit there and nurse their cigarette for all its worth because "the break lasts as long as the cigarette break."

Not true, if you got the proper management. The smoke break is a set time and lasts for a set time. This smoke break is not limited to smokers and dippers, anyone can go and have a break. I had a base that people smoked at 8 and others played ping pong, then we all got back to work at 815. Leaders keep people in lie till they mature enough to do it themselves. But if productivity ever suffered, then the breaks went away and there was nothing the smokers could do about it because the was a reason to take it away. And your idea of productivity is not the same as AF idea of it. If we only came to work and went home with out breaks, then we would have our food brought to our desks and never leave till COB.

Stuntman
07-09-2010, 03:01 PM
Not true, if you got the proper management. The smoke break is a set time and lasts for a set time. This smoke break is not limited to smokers and dippers, anyone can go and have a break. I had a base that people smoked at 8 and others played ping pong, then we all got back to work at 815. Leaders keep people in lie till they mature enough to do it themselves. But if productivity ever suffered, then the breaks went away and there was nothing the smokers could do about it because the was a reason to take it away. And your idea of productivity is not the same as AF idea of it. If we only came to work and went home with out breaks, then we would have our food brought to our desks and never leave till COB.

As I said, what you've seen and what I've seen are two different things.

imported_WILDJOKER5
07-09-2010, 03:04 PM
As I said, what you've seen and what I've seen are two different things.

People are not slacking dirt bags because they are smokers, they are dirt bags first that happen to be smokers.

Stuntman
07-09-2010, 03:23 PM
People are not slacking dirt bags because they are smokers, they are dirt bags first that happen to be smokers.

No, the smoke just makes them slacker dirtbags that smell like ass.

imported_WILDJOKER5
07-09-2010, 03:34 PM
And I am a previous smoker so the smell hits me more.

Stuntman
07-09-2010, 11:10 PM
And I am a previous smoker so the smell hits me more.

You're not the only one. I've known many 'former' smokers who said the smell of someone who just smoked makes them sick. It's disgusting.

Measure Man
07-09-2010, 11:58 PM
I'm gonna go have a great big cigar and think about this thread...

ChiefB
07-10-2010, 01:50 AM
I'm gonna go have a great big cigar and think about this thread...

Well, at least we won't have to smell your rotten self...:yuck

In respect to full disclosure, I partake of the rolled magnificence of Honduran cigars... frequently. My office is a "free smoking zone" but I quit those vile cigar.. ettes many moons ago.. ("vile weed".. Newton):drum

ChiefB

2430 MHz
07-10-2010, 03:55 AM
5 Black and Milds

4 Cuban Cigars

3 Newports

2 Cigarillos

And a partridge in a pear treeeeeeeeeeee

WHATEVER....."smoke em if ya got em folks"......

2430 MHz
07-10-2010, 03:56 AM
http://www.edinboro.edu/dotAsset/116140.jpg

2430 MHz
07-10-2010, 03:57 AM
They contain ROCKET FUEL??? Sweetness....I guess it might belong in the AF then lol

garhkal
07-10-2010, 04:04 AM
No, the smoke just makes them slacker dirtbags that smell like ass.

ANd what of all the non smoking dirtbags?

Stuntman
07-10-2010, 04:14 AM
ANd what of all the non smoking dirtbags?

I believe that's already been covered. We can go in circles if you like, but it will get really boring after awhile.

StephenH
07-11-2010, 04:10 AM
You're too late. As I already pointed out (but you apparently didn't see) the Navy has already banned smoking on its subs. All branches ban smoking during basic training/boot camp.

It's just a matter of time.

(Also, if you'll take the time to notice this thread has reached 21 pages in length. I've already had many, many posts on the subject. Feel free to peruse them at your leisure. I won't be re-typing them just because you chose to come into a 21-page thread on page 20 and not read anything prior.

All I get from your posts is that you are an anti-smoking nazi that hopefully is never in any significant position of authority. I'm willing to bet you even do the little fake cough when you walk by the smoking area. You may even be one of those people that specifically walks as close as possible to the smoking area just in order to do the fake cough. People that do that crack me up...

Stuntman
07-11-2010, 04:22 AM
All I get from your posts is that you are an anti-smoking nazi that hopefully is never in any significant position of authority. I'm willing to bet you even do the little fake cough when you walk by the smoking area. You may even be one of those people that specifically walks as close as possible to the smoking area just in order to do the fake cough. People that do that crack me up...

Now this is just getting sad. You really, REALLY need to read a full thread before you open your mouth on it. This has been covered, and the sentiments you expressed in this post have been said almost verbatim by someone else. And to that person I said what I will say to you. I happen to be allergic to smoke, so if I cough at all, it's quite real. Usually, however, it's a sneezing fit.

Orion
10-30-2011, 01:44 PM
Well, thought I would bring back a thread from the dead. I'm now retired and have bounced from one contract to another. They are either bought, sold or I get bumped up or down depending one union seniority.

Speaking of the union, If you don't smoke, plan on starting when you join. Union dues are normally 1.5 of your hourly wage per month. So that means, $90+ is going to big tobacco and the Democratic party.

At least 5 hours of every day are spent in the pit. We have two -15 minute breaks and a 30 minute lunch per day. But, the exempt supervisor is across town, so they do nothing. I have never seen things move so slow. To be honest, nothing really gets done, and allot of thought goes into how they can say "No" maybe weasel out and force some overtime. This can be time, or double time and a half. Sundays can reach $105+ per hour in some shops.

Next time you drive on the flight line at Hill, Nellis, Tyndall or a dozen bases in between. Think what the unions are really doing for you...

Golther
10-31-2011, 01:07 AM
I bet it contains dihydrogen monoxide I think we should ban all products with dihydrogen monoxide. It is a very lethal chemical. http://www.dhmo.org/ For more info.

Greg
10-31-2011, 02:32 AM
I smoked Camels and drank Old Milwaukee. Quit the Camels early during my second hitch (diminished lung capacity!) Quit the Old
Milwaukee and other "pops" four and a half years ago (diminished responsibility capacity!)

ScarlettGTO
10-31-2011, 04:08 AM
.........don't want harassed?




quit smoking.

jshiver15
10-31-2011, 09:48 AM
My Father is addicted to smoking. He lost 1/2 a lung to it. he was in the small percentage that was sent home to live. Most die. Not 6 months later, he was back smoking again. I don't think he smokes as much, but that addiction is horrible. I am glad I never picked up that habit. You can grill him about his smoking and he just get pissed. I stopped a long time ago. They say "its their life and they will do what they want to". Yea, its YOUR life, but its the whole family (brothers, sisters, fathers, mothers, grand-children, etc.) that you leave behind that suffer with grief when you die of smoking.

I was watching the documentary Fat, Sick & Nearly Dead and a similar situation came up, but only with food addiction. If you haven't seen or heard about it, there is this guy named Joe Cross and he was really tired of being sick and having to take all of these medications, so he decided to do a 60-day juice fast (nothing but raw vegetables and fruits). In the meantime, he would spend 30 days in New York and 30 days travelling across country while interviewing random people on their eating habits and what they think their life expectancy is, etc., etc.

Anyways, he's somewhere in the Midwest at a diner and he's interviewing a few guys (one guy in his late 40's, his teenage son, and their friend who is probably in his early 50's). The guy in his late 40's was adamant that he wouldn't mind dying in his late 40's, early 50's because he "might as well enjoy it". Then he was somewhat condescending when he asked Joe Cross "What would you do with 5-10 extra years of his life?" He asks this in front of his own son.

That blew my mind that someone would openly admit that he wouldn't give a shit if he could spend another 5-10 years with his family because he's too addicted to food. I have intense cravings and I love certain foods, but my family is way too important to me. My Mom quit smoking because of the same reason.

jshiver15
10-31-2011, 09:58 AM
Agreed. Over half our shop smokes, and all but one in the rest of the shop (or lt) comes out to chat while we are out there. WE have 3 massive ac units including an air purifier (have to for our 2m bench), so the smell won't be an issue. Could never understand why they got rid of it in the workspace.

Believe it or not, breathing is a pretty high priority for people.

If you're working in an enclosed area and you have even one smoker, people walking through that area are going to suffer. Here in Germany, you can visit quite a few places in the winter that are pretty lax about smoking indoors. I don't like walking into those buildings and I sure as hell won't take my 2 month old son there, either.

Robert F. Dorr
10-31-2011, 10:17 AM
Are there any figures that compare the number of smokers in the military to the number of smokers in the civilian population?

garhkal
10-31-2011, 03:47 PM
.........don't want harassed?

quit smoking.

So i should be required to give up a perfectly legal product to avoid harassment..?


If you're working in an enclosed area and you have even one smoker, people walking through that area are going to suffer. Here in Germany, you can visit quite a few places in the winter that are pretty lax about smoking indoors. I don't like walking into those buildings and I sure as hell won't take my 2 month old son there, either.


I have seen a LOT MORE people cough/sneeze cause of perfume or aftershave (Or b.o) compared to smoke on someone's clothes.

sandsjames
10-31-2011, 04:01 PM
So i should be required to give up a perfectly legal product to avoid harassment..?




I have seen a LOT MORE people cough/sneeze cause of perfume or aftershave (Or b.o) compared to smoke on someone's clothes.

And what's funny is 20 years ago, nobody coughed and sneezed when walking by. It was no big deal. Bars, planes, grocery stored, Dr's offices, etc, and people never once got that look on their face like they had just walked into a sewage station. Talk about annoying.

ScarlettGTO
10-31-2011, 08:02 PM
So i should be required to give up a perfectly legal product to avoid harassment..?




I have seen a LOT MORE people cough/sneeze cause of perfume or aftershave (Or b.o) compared to smoke on someone's clothes.

I worked with a girl who wore excessive amounts of perfume. I told her it stunk, could appear unprofessional and quite frankly it was flat out annoying. I also worked with a guy who wouldn't wear deodorant. I told him he stunk, gave off an unprofessional appearance (salty sweat stains in the BDU arm pits) and quite frankly his odor was annoying. I like clean air, maybe that is just me.

As a smoker you stink, it appears unprofessional and quite frankly it is flat out annoying.

If you can deal with hearing that then there is no reason whatsoever that you should give up a completely pointless habit. You made that lifestyle choice and at any time can choose to quit. I do my part to let you smokers have your space by avoiding the smoke pits, second hand smoke and any establishment that may still let people smoke inside. If you infringe upon my clean air then I will say something.

Measure Man
10-31-2011, 08:11 PM
You made that lifestyle choice and at any time can choose to quit.

Right!


I do my part to let you smokers have your space by avoiding the smoke pits, second hand smoke and any establishment that may still let people smoke inside.

Good!

If it were strictly up the establishment...most bars and some restaurants would allow smoking. Bars, especially, do much better when they allow smoking.

sandsjames
10-31-2011, 08:32 PM
I worked with a girl who wore excessive amounts of perfume. I told her it stunk, could appear unprofessional and quite frankly it was flat out annoying. I also worked with a guy who wouldn't wear deodorant. I told him he stunk, gave off an unprofessional appearance (salty sweat stains in the BDU arm pits) and quite frankly his odor was annoying. I like clean air, maybe that is just me.

As a smoker you stink, it appears unprofessional and quite frankly it is flat out annoying.

If you can deal with hearing that then there is no reason whatsoever that you should give up a completely pointless habit. You made that lifestyle choice and at any time can choose to quit. I do my part to let you smokers have your space by avoiding the smoke pits, second hand smoke and any establishment that may still let people smoke inside. If you infringe upon my clean air then I will say something.

Would hate to infringe upon your clean air. Glad to know you drive a hybrid vehicle and don't live near any cities. If you do, however, use any fuels which emit air pollution, then just quit. you made that lifestyle choice and at any time can choose to quit. You can do what you like, but if you infringe upon m clean air then I will say something.

WPNS
10-31-2011, 09:46 PM
Steve,

Don't know if anyone has ever been completely honest with you, but smoking and smokers STINK!!!

Their breath stinks, their clothes stink, their bodies excrete a smoky sweat stink, their budget for paying $5 a pack stinks, their second-hand smoke that non-smokers breathe stinks, their ashtrays stink, their smoking areas stink, their houses stink, their cars stink, their yellow tobacco-stained teeth stink, their diminished lung capacity stinks, and finally, the money that taxpayers have to fork out to pay for increased medical costs due to smoking stinks.

Any stinking questions? :D

And don't forget the phone that smells like an ashtray when I go to use it after some nasty-smoke-spewing ass-clown decides to use it call in an order of second-hand nastiness that I have to walk through to gain entrance into ANY building...... Most smokers, and yes I said most, are inconsiderate FCUK's that don't give a rats-ass about who walks through or is upwind of their nasty habit. So yes, I hate "inconsiderate" smokers. If you want to smell like a wet dog that has been out in the rain all night, by all means do it, IN YOUR OWN HOME but please stay away from those of us that get naseous from your funk when we have to be near you....

garhkal
10-31-2011, 10:17 PM
As a smoker you stink, it appears unprofessional and quite frankly it is flat out annoying. .

How does it appear unprofessional?


Would hate to infringe upon your clean air. Glad to know you drive a hybrid vehicle and don't live near any cities. If you do, however, use any fuels which emit air pollution, then just quit. you made that lifestyle choice and at any time can choose to quit. You can do what you like, but if you infringe upon m clean air then I will say something.

Very true. Also don't Barbeequ. Use peanuts or other things that infringe on other's nose.

imported_AFKILO7
10-31-2011, 10:38 PM
I'm actually allergic to nicotine and my allergies go crazy around cigarette smoke. I grew up in Kentucky which as most people know if a huge tobacco state. I also believe smokers have the right to smoke, however, people also have the right to not be around it. The health risks involved with smoking and second hand smoke have shown it can lead to various ailments. With that in mind I think it isn't too much to ask for smokers to understand that there are certain places they can smoke, and places they shouldn't. Furthermore I may add that if you don't like way people treat you because of your habit then you should either quit or get over it. Stop being sensitive, it is a disgusting habit, it stinks and is actually very bad for you.

sandsjames
10-31-2011, 10:41 PM
Stop being sensitive, it is a disgusting habit, it stinks and is actually very bad for you.

So is eating a Texas Whopper with cheese, but every base has a BK.

WPNS
10-31-2011, 10:48 PM
Not a smoker here, but I was at one point.

They should harass the people at Burger King during lunch.....that affects health too.

OK, YOU ASS-CLOWN SMOKERS ARE MISSING THE POINT. WE MAY NOT EAT HEALTHY BUT THE STENCH OF YOUR HABITS DO WAFT FROM YOUR FUNKY ASSES TO OUR PERSONAL BUBBLES. WHEN NON-SMOKERS HAVE TO WALK THROUGH YOUR NASTY CLOUD OF FOUL SMELLING SECOND-HAND SMOKE, THAT'S WHAT WE ARE BITCHING ABOUT!!!! UNLESS YOUR NAME IS PT GOD, EVERYONE ON HERE HAS A VICE. SO WE PUT SMOKERS ALMOST IN THE SAME CLASS AS THE SCUMBAGS THAT ARE AGAINST DEODORANT.

sandsjames
10-31-2011, 10:51 PM
OK, YOU ASS-CLOWN SMOKERS ARE MISSING THE POINT. WE MAY NOT EAT HEALTHY BUT THE STENCH OF YOUR HABITS DO WAFT FROM YOUR FUNKY ASSES TO OUR PERSONAL BUBBLES. WHEN NON-SMOKERS HAVE TO WALK THROUGH YOUR NASTY CLOUD OF FOUL SMELLING SECOND-HAND SMOKE, THAT'S WHAT WE ARE BITCHING ABOUT!!!! UNLESS YOUR NAME IS PT GOD, EVERYONE ON HERE HAS A VICE. SO WE PUT SMOKERS ALMOST IN THE SAME CLASS AS THE SCUMBAGS THAT ARE AGAINST DEODORANT.

WHEN I HAVE TO WALK INTO THE BX TO BUY MY CIGARRETTES, I HAVE TO WALK THROUGH THE FOOD COURT WHERE I SMELL THAT NASTY, FOULD SMELLING FOOD. BK, ANTHONY'S, TACO BELL, ETC. ALL IT DOES IS MAKE PEOPLE OBESE, CAUSING ME TO PAY HIGHER INSURANCE TO COVER YOUR MEDICAL COSTS. I SMELL THE GREASE ON YOU ALL DAY. IT'S DISGUSTING.

WPNS
10-31-2011, 11:58 PM
It's really quite simple. I smoke a pack of cigarettes every...single...day. Know what? My blood pressure and heart are both fine; I'm still under my max weight and comfortably pass my PT test despite the fact that I smoke. Don't get me wrong. I have no allusions about smoking being bad for me. And that's what's so annoying. I know it's bad for me, and so do the rest of the smokers. We don't need to be preached at about it. Until 20 years ago, people smoked everywhere. Bars, restaurants, airplanes, grocery stores, etc...and nobody ever bitched about the smell, or exagerated a cough because of the second hand smoke 20 ft away from them. It's only since people who try to tell us how to live our lives started talking about how bad it is that people started making a big deal about it.

Do you know why nobody bitched about smokers 20 years ago? It's because of ignorant fucks like you who chain-smoked everywhere you could that the non-smokers were never given a chance to breathe CLEAN AIR!!! So once your faces started falling off from cancer and people started getting the hint that "Oh snap, this shit is bad for us" did the rest of the educated world gang up on you cancer-causin asscracks that we finally kicked ya'll to the curbs.....

Robert F. Dorr
11-01-2011, 12:01 AM
Do you know why nobody bitched about smokers 20 years ago? It's because of ignorant fucks like you who chain-smoked everywhere you could that the non-smokers were never given a chance to breathe CLEAN AIR!!! So once your faces started falling off from cancer and people started getting the hint that "Oh snap, this shit is bad for us" did the rest of the educated world gang up on you cancer-causin asscracks that we finally kicked ya'll to the curbs.....

Amen. But of course some people did complain about it 20 years ago.

sandsjames
11-01-2011, 12:04 AM
Do you know why nobody bitched about smokers 20 years ago? It's because of ignorant fucks like you who chain-smoked everywhere you could that the non-smokers were never given a chance to breathe CLEAN AIR!!! So once your faces started falling off from cancer and people started getting the hint that "Oh snap, this shit is bad for us" did the rest of the educated world gang up on you cancer-causin asscracks that we finally kicked ya'll to the curbs.....

Ummm...ok...wouldn't say we got kicked to the curb...just usually right outside the back door...but close enough. Now calling me an "ignorant f...", that's a good one. Moderator, any thoughts on that? I know someone who got banned for calling someone a d bag, so just curious.

Anyway, seems like you have a huge chip on your shoulder with this one. So I'm gonna take another break and go have a smoke.

imported_AFKILO7
11-01-2011, 01:42 AM
So is eating a Texas Whopper with cheese, but every base has a BK.

I will admit that I don't care for BK, Taco Bell, *insert fast food chain*. Is this seriously the foundation for your argument supporting your habit?