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CommunityEditor
05-20-2009, 01:01 AM
Maj. Gen. Michael Oates, commander of the 10th Mountain Division, recently posted a question on his blog asking soldiers to sound off on the “stupidest” rules in the Army. And he got an earful from the troops.

We want to continue the discussion in Army Times.

Have you ever run across a rule that you thought was too silly to be real? Are some rules hopelessly out of date? It can be about anything: Discipline, uniform regs, whatever. We want to hear from you.

RONALD45
05-20-2009, 05:25 AM
. PT in formation in a combat zone
2. Formations in a combat zone
3. Eyewear, Ear plugs, when mowing or weed eating really does anyone wear this crap when mowing a lawn at home????
4. Reflective belts with a PT uniform period wasn't the thing touted to be "reflective when we bought it"
5. Wearing a reflective belt with PT's at NOON in a war zone
6. The "troop strap" on the backs of cargo trucks really have these things ever prevented a Soldier from being injured in a rollover, accident etc.
7. Banning of social network sites in a combat zone, then the Army come up with it's own myspace, facebook etc page
8. Barracks inspections (you don't do housing inspections do you, turn the barracks over to POST housing and if a problem let THEM inspect)
9. Giving Single Females who get pregnant military housing (aren't these the type of "irresponsible" people you would want in the barracks in order to keep an eye on)
10. Keeping the injured, infirm, non deployable on the "books" in order to increase numbers of the unit, even though these folks cannot perform the mission.
11. Keeping the above IN THE MILITARY instead of medboarding them out
12. Not talking on a cell phone when driving (yet you can talk on any military communication gear while doing the same)
13. Keeping troops at work when you obviously must come up with work for them to do to justify having them there to begin with (ie yard detail, area beautification etc hire some damned landscapers already lord knows we waste enough money on everything else)
14.

RONALD45
05-20-2009, 05:52 AM
For glaring examples of the stupid Army rules listed below see the Army Medical Dept.

1. Spending thousands of dollars to teach a Soldier to do a job in AIT, then spending thousands MORE to hire a civilian to do the same job while the Soldier works in the motor pool doing inventory, maintainence checks etc.

2. Locking down a deploying unit 2 years before they deploy to "build the team" then having 85% of said team you deploy with show up two weeks before you deploy (See PROFIS SYSTEM)

3. Coming to a 3rd world area and then wanting such an area to meet "American Standards" of healthcare
(hello if they met our standards we probably wouldn't need to be there to begin with now would we)

4. Training a Soldier to perform a certain skill set (ie 68W) then NOT allowing that Soldier to perform that skillset simply due to a change in location (oh you can do this, this and this on a battlefield but not in one of our hospitals)

5. Allowing those who have never deployed to a 3rd world nation to determine the standards of care such nation has to meet.

MACHINE666
05-20-2009, 09:41 AM
Heh. There's 'dumb' and then there's 'Army dumb'.

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

RONALD45
05-20-2009, 10:32 AM
Not a rule but still something the Army does;

They didn't see Pearl Harbor coming
Didn't see North Korea invading the South
Didn't see the Chinese entering the Korean conflict
Didn't see the Berlin Wall going up nor coming down
Missed the collapse of the Soviet Union and it's satellite states
Missed Iraq invading Kuwait
Missed 9/11

Yet we continue to rely on "military and our intelligence sources" having failed each time to warn of the events leading us into nearly every conflict fought over the last 100 years

Silver Fox
05-20-2009, 11:30 AM
Missed the Iraq insurgency.
Missed the U2 Fiasco.
Missed bay of pigs.
Still missing bin laden.

MACHINE666
05-20-2009, 12:07 PM
Missed the All-You-Can-Eat Lunch Buffet at Shecky's Chicken Shack!

:D :D :D :D :D

Master Tanker
05-20-2009, 04:55 PM
Hey Ronald45 and all the others, your are great! Even though I don't agree with some of the gripes, I agree with most. I hope the Generals read that stuff. But then, they were in the Army themselves as LTs and should know about all that. Did they close their career eyes? I have been retired for many moons but when I was active I complained about some of the 'rules' above to higher myself. EX: One day we were given a bunch of so called 'Frag Ammo' for our COAX on the M60. The Bn CDR told me: 'Fire it all up, I don't want to see the stuff again'. But the problem was that the Frag Ammo didn't charge the COAX sufficiently to fire bursts. So, my Company (15 Tanks+) was sitting out there in the boondocks hand charging COAXs for single shots. I called Bn6 on the radio and told him about the dilemma. He didn't care. At midnight I finally protested for wasted training, and after much googledibub with his higher, Bn6 finally gave in.

imported_SKAPUNKFOO
05-20-2009, 11:58 PM
The one i hate the most is:

NO HANDS IN THE POCKETS.

yet i see time after time the same NCO's enforcing the rules not obeying the same rule. and then when i call them out on it, they say i need to stay in my lane, and i cannot correct them. what happen to "on the spot corrections know no rank?" what kind of example is that. Im an NCO and i have never once told any Soldier to take thier hands out of thier pockets, because i like puting my hands in my pockets.

RONALD45
05-21-2009, 05:46 AM
Another of my favorites, you can't walk (and insert 2nd thing here talk on a cellphone, eat, smoke, drink, pat your head and rub your belly etc here). Maybe some of the ahem "lower intelligence quotient MOSes" may not be able to do two things at one time but most of us who have made rank are superb at "multitasking" we do it every damned day as part of the job.

So to tell me, an Army LVN used to starting IV's, charting, performing CPR, taking vital signs, monitoring the heart rate and other diagnostic equipment, breathing patterns while injecting drugs, and running a full code that I am somehow incapable of talking on a cell phone and walking at the same time is the height of stupidity. To tell an 18 year old Private who is used to video games, talking on a cell, driving and texting, watching tv and doing homework etc they cannot do two things at once is also stupid. Now for some of the less brain equiped Soldiers out there (those like they let in now) then yeah you might not want them doing two things at once and remember for some of them BREATHING counts as one thing already.

RONALD45
05-21-2009, 06:01 AM
As a medical person another stupid rule placing the persons blood type on the helmet band, velcro or any other place than the dog tag. Here's the deal, most medics do not carry blood on them in a combat environment the best they can do is use hetastarch or hextend or another IV fluid, this means usually that other than an autologous transfer of blood (meaning buddy to buddy done RARELY) that the first blood products given will usually be at an AID Station, here they will give more than likely O- the universal donor. In a hospital the person will be given O- if they need it fast, otherwise an blood test will be done to determine type, RH factor, compatible antibodies etc.

FatCat40
05-22-2009, 12:31 PM
1. Kevlar required to drive/ride in all tactical vehicles yet soldiers drive POVs all day everyday w/no adverse action from not wearing Kevlar.

2. NCO required to be in vehicle w/soldier every time tactical vehicle moves yet soldier drives POV alone or with peers daily. So NCO is susposed to spend all day TCing soldier as he/she goes about her duties of running errands then at 1700 report back to office to complete NCO duties?

2. If a soldier receives extra duty, first line supervisor required to "monitor" soldier while duty is being completed from 1800-2400. Why would anyone in their right mind recommend a soldier for UCMJ action knowing full well THEY will in essence be "punished" right along with said soldier?

3. Saluting-I fully understand the history behind saluting but honestly feel in this day and age there is absolutely NO respect in it, it is pretty much and unconscious act and 7/10 times the officer won't even salute back.

Your_Name_Here
05-22-2009, 02:27 PM
1. ...

2. ...

2. ...

3. Saluting-I fully understand the history behind saluting but honestly feel in this day and age there is absolutely NO respect in it, it is pretty much and unconscious act and 7/10 times the officer won't even salute back.

The act of saluting is in itself an act of respect to the individual RANK, not necessarily the individual him/herself. Commissioned and Warrant Officers are AS OBLIGATED to return a salute, as the junior member is in rendering one--no ifs, ands or buts about it.
OK I lied; it does depend on where you are. If in a designated "No Salute" area or perhaps in a tactical environment you may not be required to salute. Do check with your chain prior to not rendering though.

RONALD45
05-23-2009, 07:54 AM
Ok not a rule per se, but more of a military policy? First a little history lesson:

Haiti
Somalia
Yugoslavia

I'm sure there are others that escape me for now, what do they have in common? They are all places where America has tried to "nation build" and has FAILED MISERABLY. Yet here we go again trying to use the same old failed policy of "nation building" in Iraq and Afghanistan. The prevailing thinking in both places seem to be "we were just fine the 5000 or so years our civilization was here before you, we did not ask to be remade into little America. So if you want us to be a micro democracy then it will be YOUR (IE USA) responsibility to get us that way, not ours. Meaning we will not aid you in any way shape or form. If your successful so be it, just realize you won't get any help from us."

So after 30 years of nation building and yet failing to build one nation where we have tried this assinine policy can we put this dead horse in the ground already.

RONALD45
05-23-2009, 08:05 AM
Placing the drip pan and chock blocks under any tactical vehicle when parked, yet when you PMCS the things aren't the emergency brakes included? So really why the chock blocks, in addition why do we place the drip pan when we park right next to a civilian NTV with no drip pan whatsoever and leaking like a sieve. If the vehicle is leaking FIX IT before it gets driven, if the parking brake doesn't work tighten it. No need for these silly items.

"Weeding" the motor pools, really what damned purpose does this serve? Our vehicles are engineered to drive over ied's today but yet a piece of grass growing out of a crack in the blacktop of the motor pool is going to somehow cause catastrophic damage to the vehicle???

Online courses that are mandatory, enough of these damned things already almost as bad as the power point presentations. Really if a class is so important that it is mandatory then wouldn't it be prudent to make sure there is an ACTUAL instructor making sure we get the information and not just hitting the return key to take whatever test at the end of the course (that incidently you can TAKE TIME AND TIME AGAIN UNTIL YOU PASS) to print that all important certificate? What gives before you make Colonel now it is mandatory that you come up with some other assinine class (POV safety, dangers of drunk driving, hazards of smoking, motorcycle safety, SUICIDE classes that actually make you think about doing so just to get out of the class) to make Soldiers take? Again stop with these things already we really have better things to do with our time

Mugg21B
05-24-2009, 02:21 AM
Not sure if this is a rule or not, but telling lower enlisted soldiers to watch their muzzle awareness, while officers wear shoulder holsters that point their pistol directly at the person behind the officer is one of the most hypocritical things I remember while in Afghanistan.

I think the Army's facial hair policy is ridiculous. I'm sure someone will follow me with a reason why we have it (gas masks fitting, IIRC, was the reason I was told we had to do it), but after seeing members of the other NATO countries we worked with overseas (Germans & Polish come to mind) with facial hair, I don't see how well-groomed facial hair is unprofessional.

For that matter, this unwritten rule about heads basically having to be shaved is ridiculous. Read the regs on grooming standards and get back to me and tell me that my haircut is not to standard. People who try to criticize me on the regs, without knowing the regs, is what really grinds my gears. This also applies to the way you can wear parts of your PT uniform with civilian clothes if you're off-post and if you have your commanders permission (I was). I had so many ROTC nazis try to call me out on that. I even had a Major try to tell me I was out of uniform (while at a bar, him in class A's, me wearing my winter PT jacket). Ridiculous.

acesfilter
05-26-2009, 07:50 PM
.
Yeah, I have a good one for ya. Hire a desk jockey contractor… give them access to the internet. Watch to see how long it is before they are online all day~ both internet n forums… If that’s not enough, they post under two different screen names, when it gets real boring they either a) keep the pot stirred b) talk to themselves…:eek: :eek: enough to make ya say hmmmm… our tax dollars at work, all right….:(

.

Did you eat paint chips as a kid?

imported_MADSAT
05-27-2009, 03:28 PM
First thing to remember is "Common Sense is not an Army Value." Keeping that in mind.

1. Helmets in tactical vehicles, tactical being defined as woodland or sand painted. Half the vehicles that
88M's operate are commercial vehicles painted camo.

2. You must be an E-5 or higher to own a weapon in housing. So a 20 YO E-5 can own a handgun, but the 26 YO SPC can't.

3. Having civilians training troops in AIT because troops are needed overseas. Why not take the non-deployable soldiers and put them into the schoolhouse or bring in IRR/Retirees.

4. Have a soldier who scores 300+ on his APFT then kick him out for being overweight.

I am sure there are many I missed but these are the ones that upset me the most.

tankgunner
05-27-2009, 07:25 PM
Well, The Army Right Now Is So Hurting For Soldiers That Just About Anyone Can Wear The Uniform. After Reading The Army Times I Couldn't Agree More On All The Stupid Rules We Face In The Service Today. Soldiers Who Join The Service And When They Reach The Unit We All Find Out About Some Of Their Issues, For Example We Have This 44 Yr Old Soldier Who Couldn't Make E5 In The Navy So He Joined The Army. He Has A Severe Case Of Ocd ( Obssesive Compulsive Disorder) ; Everything He Touches He Sprays With Lysol Or Disinfectant For Fear Of Contamination. He Made The Rank Of Sgt Due To The Re-integration List. In Other Words Since He Couldn't Make Rank On His Own Now The Army Promoted Him Without Even Attending The Promotion Board. The Soldier Misplaced His Weapon At Least 3 Times And Nothing Was Done. To All This I Say Get Rid Of Garbage Like This Before Someone Gets Hurt. These Kind Of People Cannot Be Trusted In Today's Army And Specially With The Combat Operations We Face In Iraq And Afghanistan.

acesfilter
05-27-2009, 07:29 PM
Well, The Army Right Now Is So Hurting For Soldiers That Just About Anyone Can Wear The Uniform. After Reading The Army Times I Couldn't Agree More On All The Stupid Rules We Face In The Service Today. Soldiers Who Join The Service And When They Reach The Unit We All Find Out About Some Of Their Issues, For Example We Have This 44 Yr Old Soldier Who Couldn't Make E5 In The Navy So He Joined The Army. He Has A Severe Case Of Ocd ( Obssesive Compulsive Disorder) ; Everything He Touches He Sprays With Lysol Or Disinfectant For Fear Of Contamination. He Made The Rank Of Sgt Due To The Re-integration List. In Other Words Since He Couldn't Make Rank On His Own Now The Army Promoted Him Without Even Attending The Promotion Board. The Soldier Misplaced His Weapon At Least 3 Times And Nothing Was Done. To All This I Say Get Rid Of Garbage Like This Before Someone Gets Hurt. These Kind Of People Cannot Be Trusted In Today's Army And Specially With The Combat Operations We Face In Iraq And Afghanistan.

Hmm...awful lot of you recruits posting in this one thread. You wouldn't all happen to be the same person, perchance? :rolleyes:

Regardless, you raise an interesting point. I believe they call Soldiers like the one you just described...UXOs. Think about it. ;)

tankgunner
05-27-2009, 07:30 PM
Get Rid Of The Damn Tape Test, If The Soldier Passes The Apft, If The Soldier Can Lead, If We Can Rely On The Soldier, Then Who Gives A Damn About A Stupid Test. After All The Army Doesn't Care About This So Called Tool When We All Have To Deploy. So Pretty Much Is A Double Standard In Favor Of The Army. I Bet Those Who Work In A Nice Office With A/c All Day Long Doesn't Have To Get Taped.

femalevet64
05-27-2009, 07:48 PM
I have went through several wars now married and single. I am very opened minded person but when they changed the rule allowing opposite sex in rooms in combat. I have to say "Wrong if you are married" this is nothing but trouble and when things do happen the unit wants to hide it. After being the wife at home this time and experiencing this and seeing the effect of the hurt and pain. Someone needs to wake up!

If you are married there is no reason for the opposite sex in your room, there is enough common areas!!

So please realize the hurt and pain this is causing and the divorce rate, domestic violence, murders and can be financial hardship.

former31B
05-27-2009, 08:04 PM
A policy needs to be implemented that limits centralized promotions (E-7+) to those who have served a combat tour. OIF/OEF is not Grenada where you could conceivably missed out on deploying by being on leave or in school during the entire operation. With the exception of very few MOSs that just aren't needed in the war zone, those who haven't deployed yet are actively trying not to deploy. That's all well and good but the promotions should stop.

Too many dumb policies/rules exist for me to even get started.

acesfilter
05-27-2009, 08:30 PM
Get Rid Of The Damn Tape Test, If The Soldier Passes The Apft, If The Soldier Can Lead, If We Can Rely On The Soldier, Then Who Gives A Damn About A Stupid Test. After All The Army Doesn't Care About This So Called Tool When We All Have To Deploy. So Pretty Much Is A Double Standard In Favor Of The Army. I Bet Those Who Work In A Nice Office With A/c All Day Long Doesn't Have To Get Taped.

The problem with this policy is that it was originally created thanks to a little something called...Quality Management Program...or QMP. This program is specifically designed to downsize the Army. Therefore, they set standards which, while are not completely impossible to meet, inherently eliminate at least a good chunk of today's Army. It's an unfair, but ingenious, plot to terminate the excess personnel who may or may not be sitting around simply collecting a paycheck.

Interestingly enough, QMP is normally initiated right around the time a democrat is POTUS.

acesfilter
05-27-2009, 08:33 PM
I have went through several wars now married and single. I am very opened minded person but when they changed the rule allowing opposite sex in rooms in combat. I have to say "Wrong if you are married" this is nothing but trouble and when things do happen the unit wants to hide it. After being the wife at home this time and experiencing this and seeing the effect of the hurt and pain. Someone needs to wake up!

If you are married there is no reason for the opposite sex in your room, there is enough common areas!!

So please realize the hurt and pain this is causing and the divorce rate, domestic violence, murders and can be financial hardship.


What unit allows this? This is the first time I've ever heard of coed habitat in the Army--outside of a tent in a FOB (the common areas you spoke of). Coed barracks rooms?? :confused: I call BS.

femalevet64
05-27-2009, 09:52 PM
What unit allows this? This is the first time I've ever heard of coed habitat in the Army--outside of a tent in a FOB (the common areas you spoke of). Coed barracks rooms?? :confused: I call BS.

This would be a unit under 4ID at Camp Liberty, Iraq in the 2 soldier trailers. The Order was changed I believe 2 yrs ago allowing opposite sex soldiers in each others living quarters. So how this improved things but the DIVORCE RATE and more problems and strains on marriages. I will not understand! As for common areas there are the unit common areas that have TV's w/dvd players and game systems. There also the Moral centers.....

acesfilter
05-27-2009, 10:02 PM
This would be a unit under 4ID at Camp Liberty, Iraq in the 2 soldier trailers. The Order was changed I believe 2 yrs ago allowing opposite sex soldiers in each others living quarters. So how this improved things but the DIVORCE RATE and more problems and strains on marriages. I will not understand! As for common areas there are the unit common areas that have TV's w/dvd players and game systems. There also the Moral centers.....

So in other words (assuming this is even true), it has improved nothing. At any rate, I would love to see this validated with sources. Till then, I'm gonna deem this as inconceivable--as the Army has been known to go completely out of their way to avoid this. Why do you think they require same gender Soldiers to observe other Soldiers of that gender during a UA?

tankgunner
05-27-2009, 10:29 PM
So in other words (assuming this is even true), it has improved nothing. At any rate, I would love to see this validated with sources. Till then, I'm gonna deem this as inconceivable--as the Army has been known to go completely out of their way to avoid this. Why do you think they require same gender Soldiers to observe other Soldiers of that gender during a UA?


IT WASN'T COED LIVING, SIMPLY PUT, THEY WERE ALLOWED TO VISIT EACH OTHERS QUARTERS. THIS DRAMATICALLY INCREASED THE DIVORCED RATES AND THE CASES WHERE EVEN FEMALE SOLDIERS WERE GETTING PREGNANT. UNLIKE THE PROIR DEPLOYMENT WHERE WE WEREN'T ALLOWED INSIDE THE ROOMS OF THE OPPOSITE SEX AT ALL.

tankgunner
05-27-2009, 10:32 PM
ANOTHER THING THAT REALLY MAKES ME ANGRY, THE SO CALLED SLACKERS WHO SEEM TO AVOID DEPLOYMENTS BY VOLUNTEERING TO GO TO PLACES LIKE KOREA OR DRILL STATUS, AND ONCE THEY ARE DONE THEY GO TO A UNIT, BUT ONCE THEY GET TOLD THEY ARE DEPLOYING THEY EITHER VOLUNTEER AGAIN OR THEY GO GET A PERMANENT PROFILE. HMM, IS IT ME OR JUST THE SYSTEM.

Variable Wind
05-27-2009, 10:36 PM
IT WASN'T COED LIVING, SIMPLY PUT, THEY WERE ALLOWED TO VISIT EACH OTHERS QUARTERS. THIS DRAMATICALLY INCREASED THE DIVORCED RATES AND THE CASES WHERE EVEN FEMALE SOLDIERS WERE GETTING PREGNANT. UNLIKE THE PROIR DEPLOYMENT WHERE WE WEREN'T ALLOWED INSIDE THE ROOMS OF THE OPPOSITE SEX AT ALL.

Hang on, if you are married you dont live in the same housing as the single soldiers right? How would that effect married soldiers?

caliny
05-27-2009, 10:38 PM
WHY ARE YOU TYPING IN ALL CAPS?

That's the online equivalent to yelling/screaming.

If someone is intent on cheating, they're going to find a way to do it--coed living quarters or visiting privileges or not.

acesfilter
05-27-2009, 11:21 PM
IT WASN'T COED LIVING, SIMPLY PUT, THEY WERE ALLOWED TO VISIT EACH OTHERS QUARTERS. THIS DRAMATICALLY INCREASED THE DIVORCED RATES AND THE CASES WHERE EVEN FEMALE SOLDIERS WERE GETTING PREGNANT. UNLIKE THE PROIR DEPLOYMENT WHERE WE WEREN'T ALLOWED INSIDE THE ROOMS OF THE OPPOSITE SEX AT ALL.

See, you should have specified this in the first place. You insinuated that male and female Soldiers were actually living together. The visiting thing...isn't new, just so you know.

Btw, coed visitation is not the cause of increased divorced; it's merely another excuse. People commit infidelity via their own volition (and they usually find a way to do so regardless of barracks policy). And those spouses probably should have read their partners better prior to marriage. I can't begin to tell you how many Soldiers I've known who got married less than four months into the dating phase.

I'm not a marriage counselor though--just my two cents.:rolleyes:

former31B
05-28-2009, 02:53 AM
I believe Tankgunner is referring to a downrange situation where local rules may allow opposite sex Soldiers to visit in each other's rooms.

Both times I deployed, we had none of that allowed...at least by my unit's command....but the last time I deployed was more than 2 years ago so perhaps Tankgunner is right in that the policy has changed.

If so, I have to agree with this policy change. In my experience, leadership has bad luck in catching people (usually at least one who is married) having sex. They for some reason are great at catching and frying those people who are truly just friends. Perhaps the reason may be that those who are actually up to no good hide it much better.

Sad to say but the people I knew who cheated or were cheated on while downrange already had a crap relationship.

former31B
05-28-2009, 03:07 AM
Other dumb Army policies:

CQ should be eliminated from all barracks not in an actual company area. For example, in Germany single soldiers lived upstairs from the company offices. The CQ sat downstairs in order to answer the actual company phone and other typical CQ duties. I could understand the reason for that. In my stateside unit though, the base had consolidated barracks so that all single soldiers on post lived in one big barracks complex. No unit phones existed so why have a CQ? If trouble occurred, isn't that what MPs are for? Having a CQ in that situation is just a waste of two Soldiers' time.

Another one:

Soldiers living in barracks can't have ceremonial swords because they are considered "weapons". Yes, I'm talking about the sort typically awarded in Cav units. We had a big health/welfare inspection and several of these were confiscated. I guess a member of the Armed forces can't be trusted with a dull knife.

That brings me to the last of the night:

Health and welfare inspections. Unless you have a particular cause to enter someone's room, you should stay out of it. Having a health/welfare inspection for the sake that one hasn't been done in a year and someone, somewhere may have some contraband is a no-go.

SFC strachan
05-28-2009, 01:04 PM
stupid rule #1 why do you have to wear your top in your pov when driving on post? Its 110 degrees in august no aircondition in the car windows down and a long sleeve shirt DUHHHHHH

SFC strachan
05-28-2009, 01:10 PM
stupid rule #2 you can add to the rule but you cant take away. CDR's always abuse this rule for example. regulation states a pass is only required for over 200 miles. But the cdr says your on a 25 mile pass radius because he dont want you to go to the beach. they always take away its a loop hole for cdrs to do what ever they want.

SFC strachan
05-28-2009, 01:16 PM
stupid rule #3 family members not allowed to use gym during pt hours

SFC strachan
05-28-2009, 01:18 PM
army policy you can wear all or part of the army APFT uniform as civillian clothes off post. Post policy "no you cant"

acesfilter
05-28-2009, 01:19 PM
stupid rule #3 family members not allowed to use gym during pt hours

Hmm...I think this rule depends on the post. Because that's definitely not the case at Fort Bliss.

SFC strachan
05-28-2009, 01:39 PM
stupid rule #4 cant cross state lines unless your on pass or leave. im on fort knox and live near the indiana ohio border. I get bike parts from a shop 3 miles into indiana and its against the rules!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SFC strachan
05-28-2009, 01:42 PM
stupid rule #2-1 You can add too a rule but you cant take away, My 1sg added he will not sign any leave form under 5 days because that would be stealing from the army.

SFC strachan
05-28-2009, 01:50 PM
you know ACESFILTER, the majority of stupid rules I know of are post, division, brigade battalion or unit cdr's and CSM's and 1sgs making up rules based on personal preference that contradict military regulations.

femalevet64
05-28-2009, 04:57 PM
I believe Tankgunner is referring to a downrange situation where local rules may allow opposite sex Soldiers to visit in each other's rooms.

Both times I deployed, we had none of that allowed...at least by my unit's command....but the last time I deployed was more than 2 years ago so perhaps Tankgunner is right in that the policy has changed.

If so, I have to agree with this policy change. In my experience, leadership has bad luck in catching people (usually at least one who is married) having sex. They for some reason are great at catching and frying those people who are truly just friends. Perhaps the reason may be that those who are actually up to no good hide it much better.

Sad to say but the people I knew who cheated or were cheated on while downrange already had a crap relationship.

OK, Call me old school but still say in a combat or war zone that opposite sex should not be allowed in married soldiers room it just is to much of a tempting thing with stress and loneliness and heck was working before with the old policy. As I said there is enough common areas so there is no need for them in the soldiers trailers. Those females or males doing it are nothing but filling in what they are missing from their spouses at home. Mind you no excuse if you are cheating!!!

If you remember Desert Storm there was so much PROSTITUTES OF ACTIVE DUTY MEMBER!

dynamic
05-28-2009, 07:08 PM
Let.s see...

1) A ceremony for everything under the sun...while being under the sun all day for three days practicing and executing.

2) PT every morning at the crack of dawn, when PT is designed for unit cohesion and morale... it winds up being push ups and crunchs' for an hour and an NCO telling the platoon how weak they are, regardless of how weak they aren't. Same PT every day, no morale... people begin to get bored and not care.

3) Everything is about licensing (lawnmower, weed-eater, pot belly...) seriously... a weed-eater? when did the general soldier become such an idiot that they cant pull a chord and cut weeds. (eye pro and ear pro is understandable)

4) From the top down? too many rules and loopholes given to the jr. enlisted while priveledges are taken from the senior enlisted, more rules with less power to enforce....let you get caught slappin that soldier upside the head for pointing a loaded weapon at an LMTV and see what happens. meanwhile 8 soldiers are calling IG and exaggerating a situation to cause more problems in the unit... now an NCO doesnt bother, why should they when the same soldiers they tried to help are crapping on him/her.

5) Oh, and some of you soldiers and officers with little to no experience in the military need not post on here. talk about how "reflective" our PT uniform is, have you washed it a few times? its not so reflective anymore is it? I cant tell you how many times I've seen that reflective belt from a 1/2 mile away... and come to find out when I get close... he/she is with 2 other soldiers NOT wearing one.

6) Yes... take off the kevlar when operating HMMWV on improved roads... but I HAVE bumped my head on off-road conditions, luckily I was wearing my K-pot.

7) You just might be able to leave at 1500 every day if you got your butt to work early enough to get your crap done...and actually got it done. Don't forget, there are officers and NCOs working until 1900 every day to cover YOUR ass because they ARE looking out for you and sending you home at 1700 when theres more stuff to be done.

8) I could go on all day...bottom line, think outside the box, theres normally a reason for something... I'm not perfect either, and this isnt Hollywood. Keep your hands out your pockets in uniform and stop chewing gum in formation, have a little professionalism. want a full beard? join the Pakistan military, I heard they are recruiting. like you didnt know you couldn't have a beard before you signed the dotted line.

9) This page intentionally left blank... why is that? had to make the tree killing quota?

acesfilter
05-28-2009, 07:37 PM
Another recruit. This is starting to become episodic. But here we go..


Let.s see...

1) A ceremony for everything under the sun...while being under the sun all day for three days practicing and executing.

I can agree with this one; heat casualties waiting to happen.


2) PT every morning at the crack of dawn, when PT is designed for unit cohesion and morale... it winds up being push ups and crunchs' for an hour and an NCO telling the platoon how weak they are, regardless of how weak they aren't. Same PT every day, no morale... people begin to get bored and not care.
You can thank your CoC for that one. Fortunately, not all units are this dysfunctional.


3) Everything is about licensing (lawnmower, weed-eater, pot belly...) seriously... a weed-eater? when did the general soldier become such an idiot that they cant pull a chord and cut weeds. (eye pro and ear pro is understandable)
Haven't had much experience with this one. But judging from this particular anecdote, you must be old school. We don't really do weed cutting much these days unless it's red cycle tasking.



4) From the top down? too many rules and loopholes given to the jr. enlisted while priveledges are taken from the senior enlisted, more rules with less power to enforce....let you get caught slappin that soldier upside the head for pointing a loaded weapon at an LMTV and see what happens. meanwhile 8 soldiers are calling IG and exaggerating a situation to cause more problems in the unit... now an NCO doesnt bother, why should they when the same soldiers they tried to help are crapping on him/her.
First hand experience with this much? :rolleyes: Seriously, double standards like this suck!


5) Oh, and some of you soldiers and officers with little to no experience in the military need not post on here.
Mmm..yes well...free speech n' all. Can't really do anything about that. Even idiots are permitted to post here--go figure. :rolleyes:


6) Yes... take off the kevlar when operating HMMWV on improved roads... but I HAVE bumped my head on off-road conditions, luckily I was wearing my K-pot.
Sorry...but this always seemed pretty useless to me. You don't wear a helmet inside of your car, do you? Yet dozens upon dozens of car accidents occur daily and people are seriously injured. A simple seat belt would take care of this little problem.


7) You just might be able to leave at 1500 every day if you got your butt to work early enough to get your crap done...and actually got it done. Don't forget, there are officers and NCOs working until 1900 every day to cover YOUR ass because they ARE looking out for you and sending you home at 1700 when theres more stuff to be done.
Pure fairytale! Ever heard of "hurry up and wait"? Yeah, it's when nothing happens all day long and then finally...low and behold: an imperative mission comes from the top down around 16:00 and, oh by the way...no one's going home until it gets done. Tell me how many times that has happened. :rolleyes:


8) I could go on all day...bottom line, think outside the box, theres normally a reason for something... I'm not perfect either, and this isnt Hollywood. Keep your hands out your pockets in uniform and stop chewing gum in formation, have a little professionalism. want a full beard? join the Pakistan military, I heard they are recruiting. like you didnt know you couldn't have a beard before you signed the dotted line.
I agree. Besides, the beard thing is a bit overrated to me. It's like every Soldier that goes on leave or gets out of the Army has to grow a beard immediately. What's the deal here?


9) This page intentionally left blank... why is that? had to make the tree killing quota?
Makes about as much sense as why they used to sell hot dogs in packs of 8 and hot dog buns in packs of 10.

Variable Wind
05-28-2009, 08:07 PM
4) From the top down? too many rules and loopholes given to the jr. enlisted while priveledges are taken from the senior enlisted, more rules with less power to enforce....let you get caught slappin that soldier upside the head for pointing a loaded weapon at an LMTV and see what happens. meanwhile 8 soldiers are calling IG and exaggerating a situation to cause more problems in the unit... now an NCO doesnt bother, why should they when the same soldiers they tried to help are crapping on him/her.
Are you kidding me? Leadership and responsibility come from the top down. As an officer/NCO you are held to a higher standard. That is why you get paid more and get the prestige. While I agree that we need to stop the wussification of our military, you can help out by doing something about it. Not 'bothering' is precisely why we have this problem in the first place. In fact, this whole complaint isnt much better than the lower enlisted malcontents that you are whining about.


5) Oh, and some of you soldiers and officers with little to no experience in the military need not post on here. talk about how "reflective" our PT uniform is, have you washed it a few times? its not so reflective anymore is it? I cant tell you how many times I've seen that reflective belt from a 1/2 mile away... and come to find out when I get close... he/she is with 2 other soldiers NOT wearing one.
This particular comment bothers me. Who the hell are you to tell someone that they cannot post on an independant message board simply because they do not wear as many service stripes as you. A lot of times a fresh set of eyes can find problems that those used to the environment cannot. Age and experience may grant wisdom but it doesnt guarantee intelligence.

former31B
05-28-2009, 08:46 PM
you know ACESFILTER, the majority of stupid rules I know of are post, division, brigade battalion or unit cdr's and CSM's and 1sgs making up rules based on personal preference that contradict military regulations.

Couldn't agree more! An effort by a few to exert control. Unfortunately, the seeming need to promote people into a position of leadership as quickly as possible leads to leaders who do not have enough experience to regulate the well being of the Soldiers without resorting to draconian policies.

dynamic
05-28-2009, 08:55 PM
"Not bothering" IS a problem, but it's understandable why an NCO with no support from his/her own soldiers could be discouraging... I don't mean giving up. leaders face this in all occupations.

Kevlar while driving... I could truly care less, just throwing out my experience

I didnt mean to come across that way, my comment was wrong, everyone gets a say ... sometimes its hard to endure the same complaints all the time from folks who don't know where these regs come from... and fresh eyes are always a good thing, there wouldnt be change if it weren't for the young and "updated".

dynamic
05-28-2009, 09:02 PM
Another recruit? ok... but this forum is as episodic as the army itself... are you surprised?

Variable Wind
05-28-2009, 09:02 PM
"Not bothering" IS a problem, but it's understandable why an NCO with no support from his/her own soldiers could be discouraging... I don't mean giving up. leaders face this in all occupations.

Kevlar while driving... I could truly care less, just throwing out my experience

I didnt mean to come across that way, my comment was wrong, everyone gets a say ... sometimes its hard to endure the same complaints all the time from folks who don't know where these regs come from... and fresh eyes are always a good thing, there wouldnt be change if it weren't for the young and "updated".

Duly noted.

Actually my biggest complaint about the PT shirts is not that they are not reflective or are reflective or whatever, its that they dont breathe. They stick to the skin and I hate running with them. The old PT shirts were much better in that respect.

dynamic
05-28-2009, 09:07 PM
Very True, I have actually found different brands make different textured PTs...all authorized... some better than others.

That's it for me on this forum... let the next folks keep it on topic...

tankgunner
05-29-2009, 04:40 AM
OH BY THE WAY I AM NOT YELLING, IT'S JUST AN OLD HABIT. OK HERE WE GO; WHY ARE NCO'S (SPECIALLY E5's AND E6's) ARE TOLD THEY ARE THE TRAINERS/LEADERS/ENFORCERS. BUT YET WHEN MAKING ON THE SPOT CORRECTIONS SPECIALLY TO OFFICERS THEY GET HAMMERED. I SALUTED 2 YOUNG CAPTAINS IN IRAQ AND THESE 2 BOZOS KEPT WALKING AND DIDN'T RETURNED MY SALUTE CAUSE THEY WERE EATING COOKIES WHILE WALKING.. WHEN I STOPPPED THEM BOTH AND EXPLAINED TO THEM THEY WERE VERY WRONG THEY REPLIED "IS OK, KEEP MOVING".

tankgunner
05-29-2009, 04:47 AM
STUPID FT HOOD RULE #1 - WE CANT WALK ON BN AVENUE DURING PT HOURS, IF A SOLDIER CAN'T RUN HE/SHE ARE TOLD TO WALK ON THE SIDEWALK OF ANOTHER ROAD AWAY FROM SIGHT. SINCE WHEN DID WE STARTED TO BE ASHAMED OR SEPARATE SICK OR WEAKER SOLDIERS FROM EVERYONE ELSE?

STUPID FT HOOD RULE #2 - THERE ARE SECURITY CHECKPOINTS ALL OVER POST WITH ARMED GUARDS, NOT ONCE HAVE I SEEN A SINGLE SECURITY CHECK DONE AND AS LONG AS U HAVE A PICTURE ID UR IN BABY!!!!!

AND FINALLY, U CAN'T GO TO THE GYM DURING PT HOURS UNLESS U HAVE A MAJOR PROFILE. SO MANY CHIEFS AND NOT ENOUGH INDIANS.

reddog2848
05-29-2009, 08:22 AM
I personally don't understand why if Im in uniform and I have a valid military ID card and have a valid post decal sticker do I have to get searched for comming on post. this is ridiculous, I have been late a few times for this matter and totally makes me feel less as a soldier, plus they have DOD police doing the inspections and have no consideration that i might be in a hurry or have something important to do rather than stand around and check ID cards all day.. If Im in civilian clothes understandable, but come on..

reddog2848
05-29-2009, 08:23 AM
tell the DOD police at the gate to relax!!!

FatCat40
05-30-2009, 04:15 PM
This would be a unit under 4ID at Camp Liberty, Iraq in the 2 soldier trailers. The Order was changed I believe 2 yrs ago allowing opposite sex soldiers in each others living quarters. So how this improved things but the DIVORCE RATE and more problems and strains on marriages. I will not understand! As for common areas there are the unit common areas that have TV's w/dvd players and game systems. There also the Moral centers.....


As a member of 4ID currently on my 2nd tour in 3 yrs to OIF I say HIP, HIP, HURRAY!!!! For the change in GO#1 that allowed visitation b/soldiers of opposite sex in living quarters b/the hours of 0900 and 2100 with the consent of both room-mates. Previously, it was insane the lengths leadership went through to prevent ANY contact b/male-females. One battalion I know of even went to the extent of employing a "roving guard" which was dubbed the "p&ssy patrol" to roam through the PODs b/the hours of 1800-0600 to ensure no "contact" b/the sexes. It was to the extreme that a male and female passing each other on the sidewalk in the POD area couldn't even SPEAK to each other or an NCO who needed to conduct business with an opposite sex soldier had to bring soldier out into the middle of the road outside the POD area. I won't even get into the "assault" rate that as far as I know PLUMMETED after visitation was allowed and instituted. IMO legitimately single personnel should not be punished in the name of regulating morality (which in essence is what the COCs were trying to do previously ) by ensuring married soldiers do not cheat. Married soldiers make a vow to their spouses and God and COCs should not be involved in it. If you have problems/issues with YOUR spouse having opposite sex visitors then handle it with YOUR spouse but don't take it upon yourself to say what's right for the next soldier.

imported_gijoe323
05-31-2009, 03:20 AM
1SG's and CSM's yell to troops to get their 5 meter intervals while in the field standing in the chow line. they continually yell and scream to get your intervals or else you will be sent to the end of the chow line, but, once they all get their food, they (1SG's and CSM's) all huddle and eat together with the troops. i take it it is against the geneva convention for the enemy to attack while actually eating??????? 1SG's and CSM's need to stop "half-stepping" and enforce the standard(s) to full capacity. gijoe323

RONALD45
05-31-2009, 06:28 AM
1SG's and CSM's yell to troops to get their 5 meter intervals while in the field standing in the chow line. they continually yell and scream to get your intervals or else you will be sent to the end of the chow line, but, once they all get their food, they (1SG's and CSM's) all huddle and eat together with the troops. i take it it is against the geneva convention for the enemy to attack while actually eating??????? 1SG's and CSM's need to stop "half-stepping" and enforce the standard(s) to full capacity. gijoe323

Ha-ha I remember this one well, 5 meters apart in the chow line but then you ALL go to eat in the same tent or building!!! WTF the enemy isn't smart enough to just wait until everyone is in the building and seated before attacking??

My other favorite is giving everything a password along the lines of "ok listen up Soldiers the password for an enemy attack is shenanigans, got it troops shenanigans means we are under enemy attack" again who are we keeping this a secret from??? The enemy should ALREADY KNOW they are attacking us right?? So shouldn't those of us being attacked be extended the same courtesy by our leaders?? How's about instead of a "password" we just tell everyone HEY WE ARE UNDER ATTACK seems to work for me

imported_LOAL-D
05-31-2009, 06:40 AM
When you hear those first loud explosions you will know that you are under attack....or the chow hall blew up...

make sure you don MOPP 4 and dive into a bunker

imported_LOAL-D
05-31-2009, 06:41 AM
Just to be safe...

imported_2nd_Timer
05-31-2009, 08:17 PM
- I had a soldier to about ask me. Why is it that when you are at Basic Training and it gets HEAT CAT 5 you have to stop training? But while in Iraq, when it gets HEAT CAT 5, you still have to get the mission done. So why not train the soldier to work through it.

-Why are soldier allowed to leave basic training and AIT not being able to pass an APFT? Back in '94.. when I first went to basic and AIT if you could not pass you had to go to special "pops"

-Why are soldiers allowed ride profiles? I saw one soldier allowed to get profiles until his PCS then he made sure that he got off of it before he left.

femalevet64
05-31-2009, 11:41 PM
As a member of 4ID currently on my 2nd tour in 3 yrs to OIF I say HIP, HIP, HURRAY!!!! For the change in GO#1 that allowed visitation b/soldiers of opposite sex in living quarters b/the hours of 0900 and 2100 with the consent of both room-mates. Previously, it was insane the lengths leadership went through to prevent ANY contact b/male-females. One battalion I know of even went to the extent of employing a "roving guard" which was dubbed the "p&ssy patrol" to roam through the PODs b/the hours of 1800-0600 to ensure no "contact" b/the sexes. It was to the extreme that a male and female passing each other on the sidewalk in the POD area couldn't even SPEAK to each other or an NCO who needed to conduct business with an opposite sex soldier had to bring soldier out into the middle of the road outside the POD area. I won't even get into the "assault" rate that as far as I know PLUMMETED after visitation was allowed and instituted. IMO legitimately single personnel should not be punished in the name of regulating morality (which in essence is what the COCs were trying to do previously ) by ensuring married soldiers do not cheat. Married soldiers make a vow to their spouses and God and COCs should not be involved in it. If you have problems/issues with YOUR spouse having opposite sex visitors then handle it with YOUR spouse but don't take it upon yourself to say what's right for the next soldier.


What is sad is that first your looking in the wrong direction of what was written and second to think my spouse was the one doing wrong! .......(It was to the extreme that a male and female passing each other on the sidewalk in the POD area couldn't even SPEAK to each other or an NCO who needed to conduct business with an opposite sex soldier had to bring soldier out into the middle of the road outside the POD area.) .......If this is going on with your Unit or Battalion then there is obviously more concerns!!

I am saying it isn't right and being there is hard enough without a married soldier having another opposite sex in the trailer. What is so wrong with the common areas,,,hmmmmmm

Let me remind you also that this forum is what we think is a stupid rules, you have your opinion and I have mine. I will also say that there is no morality being married and having this.Tell me what this gains for in a marriage?

Single soldiers are just that single but a married soldier has a spouse waiting at home, doing all the work of two and yes the stress. I have lived on both sides so maybe if you haven't tried it and I hope to God you never have to maybe then you could wake up a bit and try putting your shoes on the spouse waiting at home.

BPettet77
06-01-2009, 04:03 AM
I have seen some valid complaints and some that are just whining. But in my opinion one of the biggest ones for me is that the Army talks safety all the time, except when it comes to pulling 24 hour duty on CQ or Staff Duty. You are required to stay awake the entire time and then you have to drive to wherever you live afterward. It makes no sense to make sure that when you take leave you have to take a break every few hours and make sure you have 8 hours rest the night prior, but you can pull 24 hour duty with no sleep and drive home 10, 30, or however many minutes it takes to get there.

imported_joesnuffyc264
06-01-2009, 05:15 AM
I don't get how TRADOC policy makes it a fact that I can hold an MOS yet still be considered an IET soldier, given "phase 5+" privileges and stuck with a bunch of "phase 4" soldiers straight out of basic training, considered one of their peers and treated as such. Way to go. Way to let a soldier know that at the end of that long dark journey to become a 68W, the light that we thought was there... was only a group of false images created in their own minds which are blotted out as soon as they made it to the 264th. Let me ask this simple question: How is it that the M6 course is the ONLY TRADOC ASI that has MOS qualified soldiers still toting phase cards and rushing to make 2100 bedchecks? While our peers who put in the same hard work we did are afforded the opportunity to enjoy the fruits of their labor. Not to mention the fact that if thse soldiers would have been sent home to their home units first, they would be considered prior service even though there is no real difference between an AIT graduate who went home and slept in their own bed first, and an AIT graduate who was interpost transferred to a different unit. Realistically speaking, every single person waiting for M6 school is immediately deployable. Moreover, if something extreme happened and we were needed, our classes could be put on hold, and we could be given TA50, trainup, and sent on our way to fight and die for our country. When you look at the situation holistically, what one would realize is that the Platoon Sergeant's of C. 264th Med Bn are severely overworked attempting to meet the needs of all their soldiers, train AIT soldiers to adjust to the rigors of Army life, and orientate soldiers who have not been on Fort Sam in quite some time so that their adjustment to TRADOC is somewhat seamless... It would be much easier for all if the added stress of ensuring that soldiers who have been trained in an MOS were allowed to conduct themselves as such, and allowed to converse with individuals who have had more experience in the Army without fear of summarized article 15's for "fraternization" instead of having their growth stunted by being cut off from interaction with those who have an obligation to assist with the development of their fellow soldiers.

~From those of us who worked this hard, to receive no reward!

a_d_deuce
06-02-2009, 01:46 AM
How about this one?

A senior NONCOM / Officer who receives at the MINIMUM an ARCOM if not an MSM / Bronze Star for sitting in their office for "only" 8 hours a day while a Junior NONCOM receives only an AAM / COA? Now I ask you this. When I send up an award for a Soldier it gets kicked back all the time by the CoC because that Soldier "did their job". What, I ask all of you, did this senior noncom / officer do? My expanded thread is posted under "off duty". Please feel free to read and post your replies.

imported_Wanderhome
06-02-2009, 04:20 AM
Found this post via google so I decided to sign up and add my 2 cents.

A lot of people posting here seem to not be realizing the big picture. Some examples:

Hearing/Eye Protection for weed whacker - True, you might not use these at home, but that's your ignorance. I know more than once I've had a rock hit my glasses when I've been weeding. As for hearing pro, the Army used to not make people wear it while at the range....find me an E-7 or above in a combat MOS without some hearing loss. In this case its much better to have too much than too little.

Training in Heat Cat 5(or lack thereof) - Yes, in combat you do go out in heat category 5, in combat you have people shooting back at you too. Should we set up live IEDs or have live-fire exercises against other units in training? The point of training is to prepare you for combat, not to make you incapable of even going.

Soldiers in barracks not allowed ceremonial weapons - Soldiers are idiots. This is a fact. They find enough ways to hurt themselves without giving them more opportunities to do so. Anyone who disagrees with this has never been to an infantry barracks on a Saturday night (the kind where MPs won't go in without a 1sg or higher with them).

- 11B E-5

imported_BRUCHOWSKI
06-02-2009, 11:26 AM
1. Who looked at all the MRE food options that are available out there and said, "Hey I think soldiers will really like this Veggie Omellete. It's absolutely delicious" ?!?!?

2. Why can't I hold peoples feet any way that I want during a PT test?

3. Why are soldiers told to face away from the soldiers taking the PT test? That's not even a rule but everyone seems to do it.

acesfilter
06-02-2009, 03:12 PM
-Why are soldiers allowed ride profiles? I saw one soldier allowed to get profiles until his PCS then he made sure that he got off of it before he left.

This falls right in line with Soldiers being allowed to self diagnose their own injuries. And the doctors just hand them more pills like candy.

Look into the "shamification" of any given Wounded Warrior Program. The testimonies of the staff members in those units will disgust you.

imported_Wanderhome
06-02-2009, 05:35 PM
3. Why are soldiers told to face away from the soldiers taking the PT test? That's not even a rule but everyone seems to do it.


Its none of your business what another Soldier scores on his PT test. Nor is it your business to critique how one person grades as opposed to another.

imported_steelwings
06-02-2009, 07:05 PM
Besides the ridiculous Beret issue, (which is due to nothing more than senior officers' inability to separate common sense from percieved "disrespect" to a former chief of staff for reversing his most universally loathed "good idea".) to the new nutcracker uniform, (who in the world did they opinion-poll anyway?) it seems as if all the stupidest of the stupid are local rules implemented by brigades and divisions. The petty crap aside, here's my list of large issues:

1. Junior NCO promotion. I'm the Platoon Sergeant, I and my squad leaders train with, deploy with, and fight with my soldiers....so why does the department of the army tell me who to promote based on time in service? I already know TRADOC has abandoned any effort to maintain quality in our ranks, but I haven't. Let us do our job so maybe we can promote only quality soldiers.

2. Senior NCO promotion. You shouldn't be promoted to SFC on the strength of being in the army for 19 1/2 years. By the same token, if you spent 11 years as a SFC, then you probably aren't the high-quality master sergeants or sergeants major that the army needs. Promotion should never be used as a retention tool, it's counterproductive to maintaining NCO quality.

3. Both as an O/C at JRTC and as a PSG in the 10th Mountain I've seen a lot of micromanagement from brigade and battallion down to platoon level. If senior officers think they have to get in NCO's lane so often, then my first two issues are certainly relevant. Or maybe officers just need to concentrate on what's on thier plate and stay out of the PT and training plans, which is NCO business, and anyone who says there's no separation between NCO business and officer business is dreaming.

My smaller/local issues:

1. No use of thumb drives on DOD computers: As usual the Good Idea Fairy flew past the common sense test, and the cases of dvd's we have to use falls right into fraud, waste and abuse.

2. Mandatory social gatherings. Let's see....formals, dining ins, dining outs, hail and farewells, staff rides, nco calls, etc. etc. The money and time away from the family adds up. Sure, the ticket is only $35 dollars...then uniform costs, fuel, dress for the wife, babysitter, photos, and everything else. If they don't make it mandatory no one will show up.....TAKE THE HINT!

3. If nothing's on the schedule, shut out the lights and go home. The unit gets enough of soldiers time on their 12 to 15 month deployment, so lets not waste it stateside by having them sitting around with us scrambling to pull out hip-pocket training. If you count up the hours, you're getting way more than 40 out of Joe.

acesfilter
06-02-2009, 07:17 PM
Its none of your business what another Soldier scores on his PT test. Nor is it your business to critique how one person grades as opposed to another.

Yeah, this makes no sense seeing as how the Soldiers are there to take a test--not critique one. Often times they end up being encouraged to cheer on their fellow Soldiers taking the test at the time. So I don't see how making them face a certain way is suppose to prevent them from saying anything.

On a side note, if this sort of thing actually is happening, then that falls on the NCOIC for failure to maintain command and control.

former31B
06-03-2009, 03:30 AM
If nothing's on the schedule, shut out the lights and go home. The unit gets enough of soldiers time on their 12 to 15 month deployment, so lets not waste it stateside by having them sitting around with us scrambling to pull out hip-pocket training. If you count up the hours, you're getting way more than 40 out of Joe.

Are you sure you are a PSG? You make too much sense, which is not common among senior NCOs. All kidding aside, I agree with that whole list.

RONALD45
06-03-2009, 06:06 AM
Along those same lines, if it wasn't IMPORTANT enough to tell me it needed to be done by COB today at 0700when I came in then it damned sure isn't IMPORTANT ENOUGH to tell me at 1630 that no one goes home until it gets done.

imported_Runicblade
06-03-2009, 01:46 PM
At the moment I can only really think of two army regs that make me sigh and shake my head whenever i try to wrap my mind around the concept, most of my other gripes are about unit policies and I could just go on forever about the five-oh-worst, so here goes.


1. The Beret - This rag is the absolute worst piece of headgear. I mean, sure it doesn't look half bad in the dress uniform, but in duty uniform? just wear the PC, it matches, is more comfortable, and it just makes sense to practically everybody so who up top still hasnt got the message?

2. Sit-up assistant - You HAVE to hold the person doing the exercise with your hands is just trouble. Personally i'd much rather the guy just sit on my feet so i dont have to worry about his arms wobbling and letting my feet slip if he just blew everything he had on his push-ups. The way your feet are held should be your preference, and if someone cant do it properly so you can best perform the exercie, then someone should be provided for you who CAN do so.

ABRNRGR
06-03-2009, 02:22 PM
By far thestupidest rule in the Army I have seen in my 18 1/2 years in the Army has to be the "hands in the pocket" rule. Standing in formation in Fort Lewis, Wa waiting in Oct - Mar can be very cold. If the uniform has pockets, why not use them? Some old timers say it does not look professional. Well Soldiers can place their hands down the front of thier pants to warm them up, which most due because there is no regulation against that, but that looks way more professional then your hands in your pocket! Lets think with our heads and stop worrying about image!

acesfilter
06-03-2009, 03:36 PM
By far thestupidest rule in the Army I have seen in my 18 1/2 years in the Army has to be the "hands in the pocket" rule. Standing in formation in Fort Lewis, Wa waiting in Oct - Mar can be very cold. If the uniform has pockets, why not use them? Some old timers say it does not look professional. Well Soldiers can place their hands down the front of thier pants to warm them up, which most due because there is no regulation against that, but that looks way more professional then your hands in your pocket! Lets think with our heads and stop worrying about image!

I always viewed this as being one of those pointless rules some officer with no time in combat came up with. It's like psychological warfare.

imported_Army_wife
06-03-2009, 03:58 PM
Ok I am an Army wife but I have a few rules and regs that I really find to be stupid.

1. No physical affection while in uniform, the way I see it that might be my last hug or kiss from my husband and how dare you deny me or him that right. Not to mention I see officers do it all the time. The infamous picture of a soldier celebrating the end of WWII was of a sailor kissing an anonymous woman.This also makes me wonder about a father or mother kissing thier child in public (this is also public affection)

2. Promotions points at certain times are a number game, not anything to do with qualifications. Someone with 4 years in thier MOS and knows it well is held back because of this and then someone who went to College for an unrelated degree becomes thier boss, simply because of a degree.

3.An enlisted soldier with 4,5, or even 6 years has to get approval (Command Sponsorship) to bring thier family to an overseas tour and may or may not get approval but an officer with just a couple of years is more likely to get approval just because he/she is an officer. What happened to Morale and Welfare?

4. Last but not least, If you get a College Degree prior to joining the Military, you can come in as an Officer (someone in charge) Hmmm... seems to me that the soldier that officer just became in charge of probably knows a whole lot more about the military than that guy who just spent 4 years earning his degree in Underwater Basket Weaving (making a point)

imported_IDENTITY1975
06-03-2009, 08:16 PM
First of all, anyone who's been around a while knows that when someone screws up a new rule is invented to cover the senior person's butt.

1. But some rules come down into practice stateside from the war zone. For example; Kevlars in a military vehicle (yes, I know that horse has been beaten). I remember, riding in Panama with no doors on our hummvee, rolling out of Ft Kobbe with softcaps. We only donned K pots when we got onto the range. (that was Empire range for you guys that remember) I went through a couple more duty stations and then all of the sudden the kevlars in all tactical vehicles popped up (Ft Hood). By the way, while I was there, after we returned from Iraq, the was an LMTV rollover, a bunch of soldiers lost their lives. They were wearing their helmets. The troop strap didn't help either.

2) The next is the beret. I feel this should only be worn with the class A, unless you are SF, in an Airborne unit or you are part of the 75th. There is a reason we have head gear. It is called a "cover" because it provides cover. The beret does little of that.

3) This one bothers me, on principle alone. I don't cheat on my wife, but if I did, I could go to jail. If a spouse of a military member cheats, nothing happens. This applies during a separatin too. Then they get divorced and the spouse takes half of the military member's pay and later on retirement. Most (not all) of the time, if it is a woman, she will wind up with the kids and most of the man's assets. Then she can accuse him of abuse, with no proof, and he will get charged (with no evidence), and no longer legally carry a weapon. Plus the military member will lose their security clearance. Career stopper, and a pink slip in one.

4) I heard this idea from an opinion column in the Stars and Stripes in Iraq. There was a suggestion about cargo shorts with the uniform for off-duty, like the Brits or Aussies. Not cool with that, but, what about some black cargo shorts for the PT uniform. Just an off the shelf, black cargo shorts with no label, to wear when not conducting PT with the PT shirt an PT jacket, while deployed only. It has pockets, to carry all the stuff you NEED to carry, (including all the stupid cards to remind you what not to do, that you never read but always have to show someone during an inspection.)

5) About those cards, I have noticed that my wallet now has to be twice as big now, just to hold all the military licenses and caeds that I am required to have. What gives. Isn't hours and hours of training enough. Talk about overkill.

6)When we returned from Iraq, the most stressful thing we had to deal with was the week straight of powerpoint classes reiterating the same things. About half of the subjects overlapped. On top of that, the breifer on what we could expect psychologically had never deployed... anywhere.

7) TRADOC has tied the hands of it's Drill Sergeants all other NCO's, yet made them more accountable. This is dangerous. Some of these soldiers get away with garbage they would never get away with in FORSCOM. They get into some serious trouble when they get there.

As we always say, a lot of ideas make sence. So, therefore they will not be implemented.

I can't end on that note, sorry.
Those of us as Leaders, on all levels, should recognize a good idea for what it is, and try to implement it. It takes a longer time to turn a battle ship around than a canoe, but if we all act, maybe we can make the Army better around us. Some people put out good ideas, you know, the things we DON'T complain about, and we like about the Army. Somebody had to have those ideas and make them happen.

On THAT note... What are some good rules where you are, that you think should be Army wide?

imported_Kyoowashugi
06-03-2009, 09:07 PM
4. Last but not least, If you get a College Degree prior to joining the Military, you can come in as an Officer (someone in charge) Hmmm... seems to me that the soldier that officer just became in charge of probably knows a whole lot more about the military than that guy who just spent 4 years earning his degree in Underwater Basket Weaving (making a point)

If your husband has a problem with officers, tell him to put in an OCS package and see just how "easy" the job is. The jobs and responsibilities that an officer has are very different from that of an enlisted soldier.

Variable Wind
06-03-2009, 09:10 PM
If your husband has a problem with officers, tell him to put in an OCS package and see just how "easy" the job is. The jobs and responsibilities that an officer has are very different from that of an enlisted soldier.

Its not always harder...depending on what enlisted rank you compare it to and the job field.

imported_Kyoowashugi
06-03-2009, 09:48 PM
Its not always harder...depending on what enlisted rank you compare it to and the job field.

Oh, I'm sure. I'm not saying it's necessarily harder, just not easy.

Walkingdeadman
06-03-2009, 09:50 PM
I have been in the Army for a long time, both on Active Duty and now in the National Guard. The number 1 rule for me and some of my comrades serving in my state is:

1. A Soldier serving on Active Duty for Operational Support (ADOS formerly ADSW) cannot go to any schools.
So you mean to tell me that a Soldier can be put on orders to support a mission while the Army halts career progression.

The number 2 rule:

2. A Soldier who is non-MOSQ( has another MOS) and chooses to apply for an Active Guard Reserve job and holds the ranks of SSG or above and in some cases lower grades, must agree to take a reduction in grade if they are selected for the position. This also applies to other schools. Soldiers work hard (in most cases) to earn the promotions they get. I thought the Army was about forward progress.

3. Soldiers in the guard/reserve in the Active Guard Reserve program, who can be AGR, but cannot deploy and still be AGR.


WalkingDeadman

imported_supermaus
06-05-2009, 08:49 PM
Another stupid Army rule is to wear reflector belts from 1800 till 0700 even when in Acu in Combat zones. Why don't we just go ahead and deploy our troops with orange jump suites that should make it easier for the enemy to spot us in the dark hours of the day.Or wait during the night the orange jump suites wouldn't reflect and give away where the soldiers movements are, so I guess that wouldn't work for the enemy as well.

imported_SamanthaD
06-09-2009, 02:03 AM
that is deffentily a dumb rule. isnt the pint not to be seen? i guess they just dont care about the troops anymore

imported_supermaus
06-10-2009, 02:14 AM
:mad:
I have been in the Army for a long time, both on Active Duty and now in the National Guard. The number 1 rule for me and some of my comrades serving in my state is:

1. A Soldier serving on Active Duty for Operational Support (ADOS formerly ADSW) cannot go to any schools.
So you mean to tell me that a Soldier can be put on orders to support a mission while the Army halts career progression.

The number 2 rule:

2. A Soldier who is non-MOSQ( has another MOS) and chooses to apply for an Active Guard Reserve job and holds the ranks of SSG or above and in some cases lower grades, must agree to take a reduction in grade if they are selected for the position. This also applies to other schools. Soldiers work hard (in most cases) to earn the promotions they get. I thought the Army was about forward progress.

3. Soldiers in the guard/reserve in the Active Guard Reserve program, who can be AGR, but cannot deploy and still be AGR.


WalkingDeadman

The problem with this is that once again we have civilians that want to keep the job openig for their buddy's after they being converted into GS positions or some dumb non regulation reading soldiers making decisions. I have myself applied for an AGR position and was told that because I left active duty on a CHapter 18 Over weight I could not become an AGR. When I did the research myself I found out that Chapter 18 is a waiverable reentry code if you meet the requirements . I have than applied again and told that LT at HR that I have a waiver and that a reentry code of 3 does not hinder me to become AGR, on that one I was told that supposedly my old active duty unit made a mistake by the 3 letter code that goes with the reentry code. So once again I did my own research,having lost already 2 jobs,because both times I was number 1 and only didn't get it because of what HR said. Come to find out there is only one 3 letter code that goes with over weight and that's the one I got. So I wrote the Army Revue Board and asked them to change my code so I would be able to apply for an AGR position,by that time I was just passed over for number3,. Yes I kept on applying because the only show stopper was this unqualified and ignorant Lt at HR, so I was told keep on going. Anyway I got my answer from the Army Revue Board stating that there is no need for the code to be changed since I came into the National Guard with a waiver and that this waiver is no reason to keep e from doing anything within the guard . And that this is the reason that they made this regulation so when someone comes back in they would have the same opportunity than everyone else. And guess what that litlle 2LT wouldn't give in because that's not how SHE read the regulation. So what you do with that much ignorance and the fact that unfortunatly a lot of the regulation leave to many ways of inteerpretation open??? SO not only ddo we deal with stupid army rules but even more with stupid people making up their own stupid army rules as they go along.

imported_supermaus
06-10-2009, 02:20 AM
that is deffentily a dumb rule. isnt the pint not to be seen? i guess they just dont care about the troops anymore

Particular when you think about how that rule came to be. The reason we have to wear the reflector belt is because one Soldier didn't pay attention when crossing a street and got run over.Even though it was very tragic accident, it does not justify to put 100's of thousands of soldiers out there in a combat zone like it is being done now, by making them wear the reflector belt and make them stand out regardless where they at. The way the stupid rules are going I am waiting for the moment when they make us wear the reflector belt even when we go out on missions across our Body Armors.

imported_IDENTITY1975
06-10-2009, 09:10 PM
What I think is funny is that my battalion had to wear the reflective belt 24/7 when in PT's It wasn't only at night. We actually had a Courtesy Patrol roving all night, LOOKING for people out of uniform at night when they went to the latrines. The threat was an Article 15 for being out of uniform.

acesfilter
06-10-2009, 09:20 PM
What I think is funny is that my battalion had to wear the reflective belt 24/7 when in PT's It wasn't only at night. We actually had a Courtesy Patrol roving all night, LOOKING for people out of uniform at night when they went to the latrines. The threat was an Article 15 for being out of uniform.

Somehow, I could see JAG laughing at this when the packet finally comes across their desk....and promptly kicking it back. Technically they can issue that--but the catch is for an offense this minor, JAG normally requires numerous counselings which clearly show a pattern of misconduct of the same nature.

On a side note, any NCO who advocates an Article 15 recommendation upon the first offense of something as easily correctable as a uniform violation is, in my professional opinion, a weak-ass leader.

Variable Wind
06-10-2009, 09:24 PM
Somehow, I could see JAG laughing at this when the packet finally comes across their desk....and promptly kicking it back. Technically they can issue that--but the catch is for an offense this minor, JAG normally requires numerous counselings which clearly show a pattern of misconduct of the same nature.

On a side note, any NCO who advocates an Article 15 recommendation upon the first offense of something as easily correctable as a uniform violation is, in my professional opinion, a weak-ass leader.

HOWWWWW DARRRRRRRRE YOU!

A.C.
06-10-2009, 11:21 PM
1. Not putting your hands in your ACU pockets (or any military uniform pockets). Then don't make the uniform with pockets in the first place!
2. The "4" and "3" day pass. First off, they must be used in conjunction with the weekend. This negates Saturday and Sunday making these 1 and 2 day passes. Thanks for the weekend I already had off to begin with. Quit thinking you are fooling us and call it what it is.
3. Time-In-Service being worth less than Time-In-Grade (especially for E-4s). If there are two E4s, and one of them came in as an E4 just because of college but the second one has been in longer... the one that has more experience as a soldier should be given superiority. I mean seriously, you already pay the E4 with TIS more than the "college" E4 anyway.
4. If the above #3 can't be done...just quit with the whole time-in-grade thing all together. I mean, if it's so important then why don't we wear our time-in-grade on our ACU's to distinguish one another?
5. DHMRSI. If you are currently in a hospital unit you will know what this is. It is a timecard that civilians/soldiers are required to fill out for their time worked. Why are soldiers even doing this? It's not like your gonna pay me more when I turn in a time card for two weeks with more than 80 hours on it.
6. The two mile run as the standard for physical fitness. Okay, I understand the two mile run tests endurance. But, when is the last time a soldier ran two miles in combat? Wouldn't going short distances, from one place to another quickly be more effective testing? "I'm up. He sees me. I'm down."
7. Restricted sexual positions with military spouses. I have not seen this regulation but it is common knowledge. If so...enough said.
8. Hatred for the dreaded "diploma mill." If the Army hates them so much, quit putting certain MOS's promotions points at max year-round. Yea it can be done but 798 points is not easy to come by. And some units do not give out awards until the soldiers are leaving the unit. What happened to promoting people based on how well they know/ and do their job anyway?
9. Correspondence courses. 999 hours?! Once again, you don't want soldiers cheating to get finished but you make them take 999 hours worth of military courses ALONG WITH trying to get a two-year degree for promotion?! Not to mention that most of the courses materials are worthless to a soldiers MOS/military pursuits. (i.e. a medic taking 80 hours worth of military electrician courses). Then say that soldiers need to "hurry up" and get promoted.
10. Telling soldiers not to get loans from certain predatory lenders but when you go into those lenders...there are certificates (signed by high ranking army officers) all over the walls. They are all thanking the lenders for their great service/contribution to the US Army. Its not a rule but I gotta question that.
11. Seargent's Time Training being taught by E4s and below. Go figure.
12. Combatitives/Fighting NOT being a requirement. A soldier can do all those push-ups, sit-ups, and run far. And STILL get a foot planted firmly in his hind section. Even normal street gangs know enough to make their members know how to fight face to face. And I mean real fighting techniques too. What the hell is shrimping?
13. The way the "traditional" promotion board is set up. So you're telling me that the best man/woman for the job is whoever knows the most trivia? Anyone can stay up all month studying for a test. Leading another person is a whole other thing entirely.
14. Allowing the finance department to take money as soon as it's owed FROM a soldier, but taking forever to pay money owed TO the soldier. It is common policy to tell a soldier it will take a few months for their back pay to go into effect. But owe the Army twenty cents and see if it takes them past your next paycheck to take it back. I guarantee it won't.
15. The Army's policy on adultery. I am not backing cheating during one's marriage. But, why does the Army believe this should be punishable by jail time/UCMJ? If a man/woman decides to do such a deed, regardless of how morally wrong it is considered, who cares? What does that have to do with his military career? Frankly, it's none of the Army's business what an individual does in the marriage portion of his/her life. You don't have to believe in certain religious beliefs to join in the Army's fight. You shouldn't have to pay with your career for someone else's religious beliefs. Next thing you know, the Army's gonna bring back stoning and crucifixion.

Soldier6
06-11-2009, 03:45 AM
MP's on my post are pulling people over for speeding on a bicycle....nuff said

Soldier6
06-11-2009, 04:08 AM
The old "you can add to, but you can't take away" rule that applies to policies, regulations, SOP's, etc. This rule is the cause of a lot of soldier pain. This is why in my unit you turn in a leave "packet" instead of a DA 31. The DA 31 is one remarkably simple form that was designed years ago to serve as a leave request form, and has worked splendidly throughout my career,...however now a Soldier in my unit has to submit a folder with a coversheet, risk assessments, itinerary, a company leave request form, les, counseling form, a typed summary of leave plans, and a couple more items.
My point is when people start adding to things it really complicates a simple task. Yes it makes for great OER bullets, but it's also why no two units in the Army do anything the same. Before you go "adding to" something or throwing good idea grenades, run it by some people and really determine if it is useful.

P.S. And can we please get rid of this goofy damn beret!

FatCat40
06-11-2009, 08:39 PM
since I've apparently as far as I can tell been banned from the original "stupid army rules post" just wanted to add this:

Returning from 12 month deployment. Everyone preaches "spend time w/family" yet you spend all day every day (0800 formation COB 15-1600) from the time you step off the plane in "redeployment briefings" (some of which are redundant since you ALSO had them prior to returning from downrange) some of which have absolutely NOTHING to do with you. I mean, really....if you're single with no kids what benefit is it for you to sit through a 3 hr briefing on family reintergration and child safety? By the same token, if you don't own a motorcycle why sit through a motorcycle safety briefing? If you can't swim......get the point? CYA at its finest IMO.

imported_Xtreme
06-12-2009, 10:16 AM
Online courses that are mandatory. This is the dumbest thing the Army ever came up with.

1] For starters, it takes the task of the NCO training his Soldiers away.... and as an NCO, I love to teach and give classes. Sadly, the Army systematically took this away from NCOs like myself.

2] Second, they keep on making these online classes more cute, spiffy, colorful and sophisticated with all of these pop ups and moving parts, but at the same time giving us weaker and wear computers at work that can't all the graphics these mandatory online training sessions have. It's tantamount to forcing a 7.62 bullet into a 5.56 assault rifle. Pretty stupid of you ask me.

stupid rule #3 family members not allowed to use gym during pt hours
That's actually a good rule... I wish my post had it. Too many civilians in the gym where the gym is supposed to be for the soldiers first. How many family members opt to use the gym at 0'dark-thirty, anyway?

PT every morning at the crack of dawn, when PT is designed for unit cohesion and morale...
Opposed to doing PT in the MIDDLE of a hot, summer day? Sorry, but the morning is the best time to do PT.

I personally don't understand why if Im in uniform and I have a valid military ID card and have a valid post decal sticker do I have to get searched for comming on post. this is ridiculous, I have been late a few times for this matter and totally makes me feel less as a soldier, plus they have DOD police doing the inspections and have no consideration that i might be in a hurry or have something important to do rather than stand around and check ID cards all day.. If Im in civilian clothes understandable, but come on..
I agree with you 100%. The gate guard system get arbitrary after a while, especially when they know who you are, because as humans doing a simple job, they actually have a memory, and KNOW damn well you live in the barracks.

3) This one bothers me, on principle alone. I don't cheat on my wife, but if I did, I could go to jail. If a spouse of a military member cheats, nothing happens. This applies during a separatin too. Then they get divorced and the spouse takes half of the military member's pay and later on retirement. Most (not all) of the time, if it is a woman, she will wind up with the kids and most of the man's assets. Then she can accuse him of abuse, with no proof, and he will get charged (with no evidence), and no longer legally carry a weapon. Plus the military member will lose their security clearance. Career stopper, and a pink slip in one.
I couldn't agree with you more. This goes up high on my list right beside the hands in pockets thing and the online mandatory sessions.

Particular when you think about how that rule came to be. The reason we have to wear the reflector belt is because one Soldier didn't pay attention when crossing a street and got run over.
Run over? By a car going 3 miles per hour? This branches into another stupid rule.... on post speeding limits, which are never equal to a regular speeding limit. 30 miles and hour in residential, populated areas. going 10 miles per hour is overkill... a year of deployment of that and authorities wonder why the first thing a Soldier do when getting back is speed in their car.


12. Combatitives/Fighting NOT being a requirement. A soldier can do all those push-ups, sit-ups, and run far. And STILL get a foot planted firmly in his hind section. Even normal street gangs know enough to make their members know how to fight face to face. And I mean real fighting techniques too.
I agree. fitness should be combat oriented.

The APFT is a requirement... being that a Soldier should be able to handle their own load. The Range is a requirement... being that a Soldier should be proficient with ranged weapons. But for some reason, there's a completely gaping hole in the close quarters hand-to-hand, non-ranged and/or improvised weapons combat. This is a problem. Cops get better training in CQC.

13. The way the "traditional" promotion board is set up. So you're telling me that the best man/woman for the job is whoever knows the most trivia? Anyone can stay up all month studying for a test. Leading another person is a whole other thing entirely.
I agree with you here.

15. The Army's policy on adultery. I am not backing cheating during one's marriage. But, why does the Army believe this should be punishable by jail time/UCMJ? If a man/woman decides to do such a deed, regardless of how morally wrong it is considered, who cares? What does that have to do with his military career?
Because it kills cohesion, especially if that person is in charge of another, who pretends that they are better than the other, or attempt to tell the other troop what's the right thing to do. Leadership is Be Know Do, and if you can't "Be" then there is a huge monkey wrench thrown in your operation called leadership.

tankgunner
06-13-2009, 12:29 AM
[QUOTE=Xtreme;241040]Online courses that are mandatory. This is the dumbest thing the Army ever came up with.

[FONT="Times New Roman"]
ok here's my opinion. just like everything else, the army wants to jump the band wagon by trying to be "hip", they implemented combative's to cash in on the popularity of the mix martial arts sport/ufc. they did the same with Nascar, top fuel, etc...; I mean think about it, they got into the facebook, myspace and I'm pretty sure tweeter as well.Yet a few years ago they didn't even think about going that route. it's all a publicity stunt, I'm pretty sure that in a few short years we will see an all army reality show like survivor or big brother.


Can Anyone Say Velveeta!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (LOL)

scoutmedic29
06-16-2009, 09:49 PM
I hate the no hands in the pockets rule, but GET OVER IT, IT MAKES US LOOK LAZY, we are a professional Army, quit complaining and stop being nancy's

tankgunner
06-18-2009, 03:39 PM
"I hate the no hands in the pockets rule, but GET OVER IT, IT MAKES US LOOK LAZY, we are a professional Army, quit complaining and stop being nancy's"

These are stupid rules you butt kisser. Rules that make no sense at all and are made by someone who has plenty of time in their hands. So why don't you get over yourself!

imported_Taemojitsu
06-19-2009, 05:04 PM
2. Locking down a deploying unit 2 years before they deploy to "build the team" then having 85% of said team you deploy with show up two weeks before you deploy (See PROFIS SYSTEM)


This fits in with the second reply in the Army Times article, and I agree with it completely. Units will be selfish and try to 'keep up the numbers' by not letting servicemembers contribute to their country; it is up to the military to allow these servicemembers to go where they are needed, but the military's rules put the authorization entirely in the hands of the unit instead of forcing them to let the servicemember volunteer.

This has both the short-term effect of contributing to troop shortages and extending deployment times for those who DON'T want to go to a combat zone, and the long-term effect of causing more servicemembers to leave the military due to bad experiences with their unit preventing them from volunteering for deployment. It is truly a stupid rule, and one I have fallen victim to also.

standstillplease
06-24-2009, 01:23 PM
Stupid Rules.

I just happen to have a list.

1.Green Socks

2. Having to carry a card around with the “7 Army Values” on it. Apparently, when faced with a tough situation, we’re supposed to take out our 7 Army Values card and be reminded of how we’re supposed to act.

3. Having to wear a “7 Army Values” tag on your dog tags. For those times when you accidentally forget to carry your 7 Army Values card.

4. Having to carry a standards handbook. If your soldiers don't know the standard inform them of such.

5. POV inspections. You get your vehicle inspected yearly like normal people, but then you also must have your supervisor do an additional inspection every time there is a long weekend or holiday coming up.

6. The mandatory flu shot.

7. The Warriors Pass from 2nd Infantry Division.

8. Having to “sound off” (yell like an idiot) when performing mundane tasks.

9. “Train as You Fight”. This is another slogan that the Army uses to try to explain why they do some the asinine things they do.

10. Mass punishment. One guy in a company of 200 does something wrong, so do you punish him? Noooo, you punish all 200 of them. What a great idea! That’ll teach him a lesson!

Need I say more.

Silver Fox
06-25-2009, 04:07 AM
The old "you can add to, but you can't take away" rule that applies to policies, regulations, SOP's, etc. This rule is the cause of a lot of soldier pain. This is why in my unit you turn in a leave "packet" instead of a DA 31. The DA 31 is one remarkably simple form that was designed years ago to serve as a leave request form, and has worked splendidly throughout my career,...however now a Soldier in my unit has to submit a folder with a coversheet, risk assessments, itinerary, a company leave request form, les, counseling form, a typed summary of leave plans, and a couple more items.
My point is when people start adding to things it really complicates a simple task. Yes it makes for great OER bullets, but it's also why no two units in the Army do anything the same. Before you go "adding to" something or throwing good idea grenades, run it by some people and really determine if it is useful.

P.S. And can we please get rid of this goofy damn beret!

This is military wide, and you sir, deserve a beer!

Seriously, someone at DoD level should write a huge policy about how certain basic policies such as dress & appearance, leave requests, etc. can NOT be tampered with or more restricted.

In other words: Uniform standards are the same across the board, leave requests are the same, any basic military functions should be identical at any installation of that branch of the service you go to. The only exception I can see is uniform standards being loosened in a combat zone.... which I wish to god someone would write into policy.

Silver Fox
06-25-2009, 04:10 AM
Stupid Rules.



2. Having to carry a card around with the “7 Army Values” on it. Apparently, when faced with a tough situation, we’re supposed to take out our 7 Army Values card and be reminded of how we’re supposed to act.

3. Having to wear a “7 Army Values” tag on your dog tags. For those times when you accidentally forget to carry your 7 Army Values card.

4. Having to carry a standards handbook. If your soldiers don't know the standard inform them of such.

Wow, that does sound pretty stupid.


5. POV inspections. You get your vehicle inspected yearly like normal people, but then you also must have your supervisor do an additional inspection every time there is a long weekend or holiday coming up.

Like most people know what to look for anyway, as many automotive illiterate people I meet in the military.... this sounds like a total waste of time.




9. “Train as You Fight”. This is another slogan that the Army uses to try to explain why they do some the asinine things they do.

Fight as you train makes more sense.


10. Mass punishment. One guy in a company of 200 does something wrong, so do you punish him? Noooo, you punish all 200 of them. What a great idea! That’ll teach him a lesson!

Yeah, this was a good idea back in the day when hazing and 'unofficial' punishment was more or less ignored or unofficially authorized. It made sense once upon a time to punish a whole unit for one guys fuck up, because they knew that those other 200 guys would probably blanket party the poor bastard and he'd NEVER do that ever again.... now all it does is piss everyone off at their leadership and not the guy that screwed up.

highplainsdrifter
06-25-2009, 08:32 AM
Stupid rules in the Army? Damn, where to start. I love the Army dearly, but hot damn, can we make some stupid rules.

I'll start with my biggest beef: cell phones. I was among the last to enjoy a cell free Army(in the mid-90's). If a Soldier was released for the weekend then, well damn, they were released. The friday safety brief was the end of your week. You had two glorious days to forget the Army. I HATE, DESPISE, how most CoC's act like they pay your cell phone bill, and pretend that you are required to answer it. Every safety brief I hear "Keep your phone on!". Fuck off, just out of spite, I don't. I pay about $130 a month for my 'family plan'. I will answer it when I feel like it. Start paying my bill, and I'll be at your beck and call.

highplainsdrifter
06-26-2009, 10:32 AM
Another one: reflective belts. Wasn't a major reason we got rid of our old, more comfortable, PT uniform because the new one was already reflective? Why don't they just make the whole PT uniform out of the reflective belt material. Never mind, I don't want to give them ideas.

Someone else mentioned the ever growing mountain of paperwork that goes with your leave request. What a total waste of time(and trees). I flew out of Germany three times for leave. Each time I needed a POV inspection(to fly), and had to complete some online crap that asked me how far I was driving(zero miles), did I plan on drinking before I drove( of course, you caught me), and did I plan on sleeping the night before(WELL, I was planning on a 48 hour crystal meth/whiskey binger...). Mostly that makes me laugh... until I think about some O-6 getting ready to pin on a star for suggesting that nonsense.

imported_IDENTITY1975
06-26-2009, 11:45 PM
As far as the mass punishment thing goes, half of the rules in the military are the result of a the scre-up of a few people. If you need proof, look at TRADOC regs, or the fratinization rules (officers with enlisted, or NCO's and lower enlisted). Some of us remember a time when those rules were not there.

Just look at half of the rules that we have. Think, "where did this rule come from?" If you answer honestly, you will probably come to the conclusion that SOMEBODY screwed up. So they made a new rule. If I remember correctly, there are already regs that cover the nonspecifics under unsoldierly or not acting as an NCO or an officer is supposed to.

imported_IDENTITY1975
06-26-2009, 11:56 PM
You had two glorious days to forget the Army. I HATE, DESPISE, how most CoC's act like they pay your cell phone bill, and pretend that you are required to answer it. Every safety brief I hear "Keep your phone on!". Fuck off, just out of spite, I don't. I pay about $130 a month for my 'family plan'. I will answer it when I feel like it. Start paying my bill, and I'll be at your beck and call.

I went through a big issue with this for a while, I lost my cell phone charger for a bit. The seniors were harassing me when I would get a new one. I was enjoying not having them, or anybody call me on that electronic leash. They actually called another NCO's phone who was with me to ask when I would get a new charger.
I told them, "I might get one on payday."
"You need to get one NOW! Tonight!"
"Why?" I asked.
"We have to have a way to contact you."
Then I asked, "Why don't you just call my home phone number? It's on the alert roster."
There was a long pause. Then I heard "Oh. I didn't think of that."

This is a bigger issue. The Army, and the military as a whole has come to rely on it's members buying their own devices to work.

RONALD45
06-27-2009, 06:09 AM
I went through a big issue with this for a while, I lost my cell phone charger for a bit. The seniors were harassing me when I would get a new one. I was enjoying not having them, or anybody call me on that electronic leash. They actually called another NCO's phone who was with me to ask when I would get a new charger.
I told them, "I might get one on payday."
"You need to get one NOW! Tonight!"
"Why?" I asked.
"We have to have a way to contact you."
Then I asked, "Why don't you just call my home phone number? It's on the alert roster."
There was a long pause. Then I heard "Oh. I didn't think of that."

This is a bigger issue. The Army, and the military as a whole has come to rely on it's members buying their own devices to work.

There was a time when the Army had a way to get in touch with you it was called a POST WIDE PA SYSTEM (you know the same one they play Reveille and Retreat on). Then we stopped making Soldiers live in the barracks, went from a single to a 75% married Army, and made people live off post instead of building more housing on Post.

RONALD45
06-27-2009, 06:12 AM
[QUOTE=highplainsdrifter;248134]Another one: reflective belts. Wasn't a major reason we got rid of our old, more comfortable, PT uniform because the new one was already reflective? Why don't they just make the whole PT uniform out of the reflective belt material. Never mind, I don't want to give them ideas.QUOTE]


There was another time when we held the person driving the vehicle and the TC SOLELY RESPONSIBLE for not paying attention and hitting some pedestrian, not the pedestrian who was hit for not wearing a stupid reflective strip

imported_Xtreme
06-29-2009, 12:22 PM
1.Green Socks
Actually, you can wear green, brown, tan, or black socks. Just not white ones. This isn't a big issue.

2. Having to carry a card around with the “7 Army Values” on it. Apparently, when faced with a tough situation, we’re supposed to take out our 7 Army Values card and be reminded of how we’re supposed to act.

3. Having to wear a “7 Army Values” tag on your dog tags. For those times when you accidentally forget to carry your 7 Army Values card.
This reminds me of the mandatory online training. Nothing's more stupid than the Army giving you a thousand pointless cards to mindlessly fatten your wallet. Sexual Assault Prevention card, Suicide Prevention card, Army Values card, etc. It's just too many. It's the dumbest crap the Army has thought of.


4. Having to carry a standards handbook. If your soldiers don't know the standard inform them of such.
There's a difference between Army wide rules and unit rules. This sounds like a unit rule... My unit doesn't do this.


5. POV inspections. You get your vehicle inspected yearly like normal people, but then you also must have your supervisor do an additional inspection every time there is a long weekend or holiday coming up.
The point of a POV inspection is pretty much a PMCS of a civilian vehicles. This isn't a bad idea, used in moderation of course. Once you have soldiers, you have no idea how many times a Soldier is running around with expired insurance, expired tags, registration, etc. This, in moderation, keeps the Soldiers safe... not from accidents and crahses, but from worse -- pointless tickets and being harassed by cops. .


6. The mandatory flu shot.
Pointless to point out -- people would pay good money to have a that flu shot, and we get it for free. You don't know how good we have it.

imported_SKAPUNKFOO
06-30-2009, 12:05 AM
we all know how alot of people feel about the beret, it sucks! well here on Fort Lewis the post CG or CSM, i forget which one, has made it mandatory that we were the stupid beret everywhere on post. No PC's anywhere except the motor pool. which in itself isnt that big of a deal, what is stupid is that for quite some time there was a detail of PSG's, 1SG's, and BLN CSM's out on beret patrol in front of the commisary, px, shoppettes, and mini mall. Every soldier that was caught wearing thier PC had thier name and unit taken down and then compiled onto a list. That list went up to the CG and then that Soldier's unit was contacted, then the Soldier was couseled and then the Soldier, as well as his SLDR and PSG had to go do the stupid beret patrol.

it was so stupid that I got yelled at by a 1SG for not wearing the beret while pumping gas!! it wasnt like i walked to the shopette to pay for the gas. i stayed under the gas covering and used my card to pay at the pump!

Gen Jacoby and CSM Prosser, if youre reading this- Please stop this non-sense.

imported_SKAPUNKFOO
06-30-2009, 12:09 AM
oh yeah... Fort Lewis

not being allowed to play sports for morning pt. even in the gym, the raquetball courts, basketball and tennis courts are all closed. but you can lift weights in the gym.

Now how is it that lifting weights is considered pt but playing a sport is not? Sports is great cardio and endurance. Especially because of all the sprinting! If sports is not PT then lifting weigts and weight training IS NOT PT!!

once again GEN. Jacoby and CSM Prosser if youre reading this- Please stop the non-sense. This is beyond making sense.

RONALD45
07-04-2009, 07:47 AM
Soldiers wouldn't have to carry a book of standards if these Post Commanders realized there is only one Standard and that is the ARMY STANDARD. All these idiot rules that they make up to make them feel all powerful are just that idiot rules that. If the Army hasn't already deemed it important enough to address the issue then maybe it is because they don't want it addressed.

Example the Army states you need a DA 31 filled out and signed to go on leave no where in any regulation does it state that you also need a TRIPP form, High Risk Management tool, LES, strip map, sleep plan etc so who are you again to suggest we do???

FatCat40
07-04-2009, 07:07 PM
Soldiers wouldn't have to carry a book of standards if these Post Commanders realized there is only one Standard and that is the ARMY STANDARD. All these idiot rules that they make up to make them feel all powerful are just that idiot rules that. If the Army hasn't already deemed it important enough to address the issue then maybe it is because they don't want it addressed.

Example the Army states you need a DA 31 filled out and signed to go on leave no where in any regulation does it state that you also need a TRIPP form, High Risk Management tool, LES, strip map, sleep plan etc so who are you again to suggest we do???


Again, it's simply CYA in case any accidents occur then leadership can feel absolved because "there was a system in place"

11Bravo
07-10-2009, 08:24 PM
this is more of a theater issue...

1. in the glorious country of iraq. MNF-I has deemed fit to tell us we cannot wear our flight crew uniforms unless we fly or go outside the wire. once we return we have to immediately change. same with the ACS.
although, it clearly says in the MNF-I policy that both the aircrew acu can be worn as a duty uniform.ACS can be worn as a stand-alone shirt.
the army paid alot of money for me to own these items. theyre not even worth wearing with such restrictions. but what i find hilarious (not really) is that i see the MNF-I CSM wearing said items daily. and i repeat...daily. i thnk that the ACU2 uniform is all he owns.

2. and this im sure has been argued extensively. the Army combat uniform is a joke. we are the worst dressed branch in the military. the pattern sucks, the velcro sucks, having to pin things on sucks, just go back to sow on. ACU's dont work in the desert either, whoever says that has been snorting pixie dust. why cant big army just swallow their pride and admit that ACU's suck and go to multi-cam like the special forces have. no one likes the ACU's. and anyone who does is the worlds biggest POG and needs to go to a corner and punch himself in the face repeatedly

3. the military in general -i saw a SF unit wearing multi-cam, no head gear, sleeves rolled up, some kind of hiking/running shoes. they didnt look one bit ate up, but yet regular soldiers do?. shouldnt we as the regular army strive to be like SF soldiers. they are the warrior elite and we should emulate them.

4. long and multiple deployments, garrison mentalities in combat zones, commands only thinking for themselves, 1SG's and SGM's acting like theyre the greatest gift since gunpowder. the army wonders why good soldiers are getting out? why people have bad attitudes? why people commit suicide?

you want to know why the suicide rate is up? cause no one is taking care of Joe. shorten the deployments, more downtime in between. show some freaking trust in the junior NCO's and lower enlisted. get it thru command that NCO's run the unit, not officers. NCO's make shit happen.

all the knuckleheads are joining the army, andall the good, well rounded NCO's are getting out.\

95 percent of the people in my unit who have ETS'd or are soon are getting out. why? because command sucks. they hate the command that much to give up what they once loved.

its called cause and effect people. Joe goes on 15 month deployment, relationship suffers for it. it takes less than 15 months to fall in love, you think it takes longer than 15 months to fall out of it?

Joe gets home, its not the same after 15 MONTHS!!! returns home to go back to training for the next deployment, deploys again for 15 months, wife leaves or is so depressed that Joe has a hard time. Command is garbage and there is no real support cause command is 80 percent of the problem....Joe cant take it and kills himself?

cause and effect.

former31B
07-11-2009, 01:39 AM
Command is garbage and there is no real support cause command is 80 percent of the problem....Joe cant take it and kills himself?

cause and effect.

Couldn't agree more. Most Army policies are okay...it's the people that add to and interpret these policies that are the problem. And why do so many commanders feel the need to? We've let combat become a check-the-block career move. Get a company, drive them hard to the breaking point, and then move on to a nice staff job until you get picked up for major. Meanwhile, all those soldiers that were driven so hard did reach their breaking point and are now getting out of the Army or cashing out on life.

Very few leaders in the Army truly care about the soldiers...it all comes down to that NCOER or OER.

FatCat40
07-11-2009, 04:44 PM
Couldn't agree more. Most Army policies are okay...it's the people that add to and interpret these policies that are the problem. And why do so many commanders feel the need to? We've let combat become a check-the-block career move. Get a company, drive them hard to the breaking point, and then move on to a nice staff job until you get picked up for major. Meanwhile, all those soldiers that were driven so hard did reach their breaking point and are now getting out of the Army or cashing out on life.

Very few leaders in the Army truly care about the soldiers...it all comes down to that NCOER or OER.



Now THAT'S real talk fya!!!!!

KMSTORM64
08-07-2009, 05:53 PM
One of the stupidest rules I have ever seen in the Army was the Coporal rule or the really bizarre rule. Lets change this so it really makes sense. If a soldier goes to an Sergeants Board and passes (key phrase here), upon conclusion of the board and posting the broads results the soldier in question should be promoted to Corporal. Said soldier could spend an awful long time waiting to hit the magic number so instead of sending them back to pool of enlisted soldiers, lets give them a chance to start to learn what being an NCO is about and give them rank that allows them to act as leaders as opposed to this whole Specialist Promotable crap that has no real authority do to jack anything.

vette88
08-10-2009, 12:44 PM
This has probably been posted by now, but one I always loved was filling out all the paperwork to go on pass/leave (outside 150 mile radius). The Army trusts us with a rifle while deployed, but can't treat us like grown adults (can't trust us getting to first formation on time when pass/leave ends).

Having Soldiers rake dirt and rock in Iraq for "weekly beautification" was a complete abuse of power. Some might say "the 1SG is having the Soldiers do that to keep them occupied (keep their minds off other things). Yeah, well there are other things that could be done/trained.

chucksnee
08-10-2009, 01:10 PM
I'm retired now....but when I was in, my unit in Korea....made us get both ground armor and flight armor.

If you know, flight armor is much heavier than ground....or seems to be anyway..but thats not my point....

We HAD to carry both everywhere....(while in the field) we could not wear the flight armor from our tent to the helicopter...oh no....we had to carry our flight armor with us and then change when we got to the ACFT. We could not leave the aviation armor on hte ACFT either...so imagine carrying 2 sets of complete body armor...

The command even said that if we went down we had to change into our ground armor.....before we E&E'd

The good Idea ferry needs to leave and people need to stop worrying about there OER and NCOER....Hell most are not even written like they should be anyway..to many budy budy NCOER and OER written.

15TANGO
08-11-2009, 04:41 AM
A few of my favorites.

1. Just because it's issued to you does not mean it's authorized. In my experience ACS only authorized once you go out to your aircraft to go fly and must be taken off immediatley once the engines shut off. Oakley M frames not now so much but when we first got them we were told they weren't authourized ever. In my oppinion if the army gives it to you use it.

2. PT belts at high noon.. No problem with them during dusk dawn or nighttime, But if I have a medical appointment at 1300 that requires me to be in PT's why do I need a reflective belt.

3. Adding to a leave form, mylast leave packet was 13 pages not counting the 5 pages of da 31's. Also not being able to sign out before 6 AM I had a 530 flight and have to get special permmission to take a taxi from post to the airport because it's before 6.

KMSTORM64
08-19-2009, 08:10 PM
Here is one I am sure was covered already: The army Class A Green or new blue uniform. Why does the Army inst of making it look like some sort of bill board. Infantry soldiers, why do you need a blue cord, and that cheap looking plastic disk, don't you already know you're int he infantry. Regimental Crests, trash can these items ASAP. How many of us have served in an actual regiment Ordnance is a Corp and its own branch, so why do we have to have a regimental crest, is not the branch bigger than a regiment? Green Tab, save that for field jackets, on class A's it is the cheapest peice of "stuff" I have ever seen on a uniform. Speaking of the new blue uniform, who makes them now, some former East German outfit? My God, the material is crap and the Bus Driver Cap looks like East German Surplus died Blue, no quality what so ever. The whole tanker/airborne boot debacle, is their a problem with one boot for the whole Army. It is like we cow tow to certain Proma Donna's.

USMC patches for for wartime service sleeve insignia. NCO corp get you head out of the duffle on this one. only those who were ARMY soldiers assigned to a Marine unit during the initial invasion can wear it, not every damn jarhead for the last 30 years. No disrespect to the USMC, but former jarheads, are just that forme,r if you want to be USMC than stay USMC and work to change your policy

ramrod
08-19-2009, 08:32 PM
I remember getting a USMC combat patch in 2004 for Fallujah. Do I wear it....nope. It wasn't just for the invasion.

Variable Wind
08-19-2009, 08:32 PM
A few of my favorites.

1. Just because it's issued to you does not mean it's authorized. In my experience ACS only authorized once you go out to your aircraft to go fly and must be taken off immediatley once the engines shut off. Oakley M frames not now so much but when we first got them we were told they weren't authourized ever. In my oppinion if the army gives it to you use it.

2. PT belts at high noon.. No problem with them during dusk dawn or nighttime, But if I have a medical appointment at 1300 that requires me to be in PT's why do I need a reflective belt.

3. Adding to a leave form, mylast leave packet was 13 pages not counting the 5 pages of da 31's. Also not being able to sign out before 6 AM I had a 530 flight and have to get special permmission to take a taxi from post to the airport because it's before 6.

REALLY? In my experience it is the default uniform for anyone on flight orders. Perhaps an individual commander's decision?

MADMAX05
08-21-2009, 06:08 PM
Get Rid Of The Damn Tape Test, If The Soldier Passes The Apft, If The Soldier Can Lead, If We Can Rely On The Soldier, Then Who Gives A Damn About A Stupid Test. After All The Army Doesn't Care About This So Called Tool When We All Have To Deploy. So Pretty Much Is A Double Standard In Favor Of The Army. I Bet Those Who Work In A Nice Office With A/c All Day Long Doesn't Have To Get Taped.

think about what you said i agree as long as they pass there pt test there should be no tape but come just because there a good leader they can be fat now thats stupid. and belive it or no everybody who does not meet weight standards is taped every one has a boss just because u dont see it doesnt mean it doesnt happen

MADMAX05
08-21-2009, 06:31 PM
stupid rule #4 cant cross state lines unless your on pass or leave. im on fort knox and live near the indiana ohio border. I get bike parts from a shop 3 miles into indiana and its against the rules!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i have never heard of that rule maybe they told you that and you belived it and are to dumb to check in to it urself. Kinda like how they tell you that if you die on a motorcycle and ur not wearing a helmet ur family wont get the sgli wrong. look it up sgli is not given to you by the army or the military you just have to be in the military to qualilfy for it go to there website the army can not deny your sgli but soilders are too lazy to look into things they just believe what is told to them kinda like you

JAZZMASTER
08-25-2009, 12:39 AM
This is very stupid, as we all know:
Wearing the long-hated black beret with the ACU.
Can the Army Chief of Staff FINALLY do the right thing, take immediate action and issue an order to change this stupid rule once and for all???

silkywilky
09-10-2009, 05:32 AM
One of the most important was forgotten, No walking and talking while on a cell phone. I actualy had a senior NCO stop her car in the road just to chew my ass and tell me to stop walking while I was using the cell phone.

Never understood the irony of that unless one was incapable of being able to be aware of their surroundings while they were walking, weather on phone or not in which case that person is retarded

silkywilky
09-10-2009, 05:45 AM
1. Kevlar required to drive/ride in all tactical vehicles yet soldiers drive POVs all day everyday w/no adverse action from not wearing Kevlar.

2. NCO required to be in vehicle w/soldier every time tactical vehicle moves yet soldier drives POV alone or with peers daily. So NCO is susposed to spend all day TCing soldier as he/she goes about her duties of running errands then at 1700 report back to office to complete NCO duties?

2. If a soldier receives extra duty, first line supervisor required to "monitor" soldier while duty is being completed from 1800-2400. Why would anyone in their right mind recommend a soldier for UCMJ action knowing full well THEY will in essence be "punished" right along with said soldier?

3. Saluting-I fully understand the history behind saluting but honestly feel in this day and age there is absolutely NO respect in it, it is pretty much and unconscious act and 7/10 times the officer won't even salute back.

I'd have to disagree with what you said about Saluting. To salute is to show respect and not to salute a sign of disrespect, yea the officer should return the salute but if he/she does not it only means that that officer has no courtesy or respect which is a shame. That tradition should not be dismissed for such simple purposes. Now saluting in a combat enviroment on the other hand, is a different story. I was a attached to a MP company once, and whereas the MP company was responsiable for the prisoners, my 2 platoons were responsiable for the security of the entire compound. There used to be no salute signs posted everywhere but then, due to the high volume of officers that would come in to the camp due to the prison, well one of the officers got offended for receiving no salute and needless to say the rules were forced to be changed.

You talk about having a NCO being punished( because I had to do that muliple times, it is punishment though the NCO is not counted as being punished) due to having to supervise the soldier. I was part of a battalion that had it's onw staff duty like anywhere else does. When soldiers were given field grade UCMJ actions, of course an NCO from that company was assigned to "supervise or rather babysit" but here's the thing. There were a total of 6 soldiers from 4 different companies within the battalion who were on extra duty, and so with these 6 soldiers all assigned to the battalion staff duty, were also the respective NCO from each company. All the tasks came from the battalion staff NCO but the company NCO had to be present for each and every soldier. I mean would it not have made better sense just ot have them monitored by the BN NCO since he was doing that anyway?

robluk
09-10-2009, 10:12 PM
I personally don't understand why if Im in uniform and I have a valid military ID card and have a valid post decal sticker do I have to get searched for comming on post. this is ridiculous, I have been late a few times for this matter and totally makes me feel less as a soldier, plus they have DOD police doing the inspections and have no consideration that i might be in a hurry or have something important to do rather than stand around and check ID cards all day.. If Im in civilian clothes understandable, but come on..

The reason for this is do to the fact that soldiers generally do not have secure parking off post. There is a possibility that the vehicle could be tampered with and used to smuggle items onto post without the owner/operator knowing it.

KMSTORM64
09-10-2009, 11:14 PM
The reason for this is do to the fact that soldiers generally do not have secure parking off post. There is a possibility that the vehicle could be tampered with and used to smuggle items onto post without the owner/operator knowing it.


I know why, back in 1985s a The Red Army Faction/Bader-Meinhof Gang kidnaps and kills Army Specialist Edward Pimental. They use his ID card to gain access to Rhein Main Airbase. They use a car bomb once inside the base and kill 2 people and injury 20 more. If it can be done once successfully most terrorists groups will do it again. As the IRA said after attempting to kill Margret Thatcher "You have to be lucky every day, we only have to be lucky once." Young soldier take nothing for granted. Extremists groups have looked at using pizza delivery vehicles to plan attacks against Fort Dix. We have to be vigilant every day, not when it is convenient. They only have to get lucky once.


Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Army_Faction

Top DawG
09-12-2009, 05:08 AM
1. Having to waste a NCO to escort an E-4 or below to PAC that is 12 miles across post.

2. Having to send an operator to the motor pool to be the gopher for some lazy slob mechanic, who spends half his time on a smoke break, during a vehicle service....Never had a motor pool mechanic help me wash or tow an aircraft.

ramrod
09-12-2009, 04:55 PM
1. Having to waste a NCO to escort an E-4 or below to PAC that is 12 miles across post.

2. Having to send an operator to the motor pool to be the gopher for some lazy slob mechanic, who spends half his time on a smoke break, during a vehicle service....Never had a motor pool mechanic help me wash or tow an aircraft.

Know whatcha mean about having to pick up after the mechanic. What I do is have them pick up after I get done with them in the aid station. :cool:

KMSTORM64
09-23-2009, 10:29 PM
This isn't so much a "stupid Army rule," as it is a stupid thing we do. Why is it if you are awarded a medal (any medal) it comes with metal safety pin like device, which if you slide it off and wanted to make your own own medal display it will fall apart. Instead your option is to buy to buy the medals from some company that puts them together for you at a hefty price. Instead why not just make the medal without the safety pin device or at least carry them optionally at he PX/BX/NX so you can make your own medal rack? With the change over to Blues as the Class A uniform, it would be nice to see more people wear their medals as opposed to ribbons. I would also like to see the PX start to carry National Guard ribbons and Medals on their website. It would make life a lot easier to replace them as they wear out.

KMSTORM64
09-23-2009, 10:31 PM
Know whatcha mean about having to pick up after the mechanic. What I do is have them pick up after I get done with them in the aid station. :cool:


The reason you're there is to assist in operator related maintenance and learn something.

ramrod
09-23-2009, 10:45 PM
The reason you're there is to assist in operator related maintenance and learn something.

Yup, just like they are inside my aid station.

FatCat40
09-24-2009, 03:27 AM
So I put in for a four day pass this weekend, not going out of town staying home. My home address 5 minutes away from post is the POC address. Tell me why before I could submit the pass I had to attach
1. a copy of my LES(to verify how many leave days I have.....it's a PASS request idots....I won't be charged leave)
2. a completed POV inspection sheet (despite the fact I'm not leaving town and will drive around the local areas just as I do daily when working)
3. strip map to my Pass destinatioin I AM NOT GOING ANYWHERE
4. A risk assessment (which in order to get I had to do the online questionaire stating how many hours of sleep I'd get prior to "starting my trip", whether I'd pull over and take rest stops, how many miles I intended to travel etc.....)
SHEER INSANITY!!!!! This might sound small but crap like this is what ultimately pushed me over the edge and made me decide to gtf OUT!!! I'll start clearing in 90 days.

RONALD45
09-30-2009, 02:17 PM
A rather disturbing trend in the Army seems to be the inability to set priorities for any type of work to get done. The scenerio runs like this: Battalion Commmander needs this done by COB, but Company Commander needs this done by same time, CSM and 1SG have their own agenda's as well. Only one problem there exists only ONE group of Soldiers to handle everyone's task. So what happens is you have a myriad of details all going on at the same time, with Soldiers being pulled from one started task to accomplish another. The end result is usually ok you've started 50 different damned projects but have been able to complete NONE of them.

So here is the deal can we set some set of priorities here, maybe let Soldiers complete one task before starting another just once. The end result is a chaotic Command climate that makes the leadership look ineffective and chewed up, being REACTIVE instead of PROACTIVE. When all that needs to be done is someone set back and say ok we need to start and finish this today, then we will start this project when finished we will move on to this one. But no now it is everyone wants everything done by the "magic time" of "COB Today" with absolutely nothing getting accomplished and all taskings being done half-assed in order to move on to the next one.

Seems to be the same way with fighting the wars we are involved in, not just in Garrison.

RONALD45
10-02-2009, 12:04 AM
Ok time to bluntly honest here, but I am really growing sick of the Army "mommy" mentality. I have heard of taking care of Soldiers but we are going to the far extreme. Really do I need to sit through 4 damned motorcycle safety classes when I don't even own a bike. Or a "new improved" suicide awareness class? C'mon if you have been in the Army for more than a week now you know that suicides happen, they have always happened from the get go of warfare. Roman Caesars and Soldiers were known to kill themselves after losing in battle. So the game goes on. One suicide is too many, really? You know one WAR was too many with the little amount of a military we had. Two wars borders on the ludicrous but heaven forbid we bring back the draft hhooo that evil word we all know we need but too many Brass are scared to say it because the public might just up and say enough already, to hell with Al Qaeda come home, and of course there goes their chances at promotion to that next Officer rank.

One of the reasons for an increase in suicide that was cited was "Soldiers now live off Post" wow really? Maybe it is because they know they cannot get one damned moment of peace and quiet living on the Post. From tons of unnecessary classes and paperwork to accomplish the smallest of tasks (want to go on a two mile run better have that risk assessment for what I always start mine with the highest risk anyways DEATH) and work from there. Yeah some idiot could run out in the street and get hit by a car that is why they call them ACCIDENTS, do we really need a complete behavorial health assessment for everyone who just might have a fender bender on post or can we finally once and for all chalk it up to another distracted IDIOT who just happened to have a wreck.

Suicide god do I really need another class? Here's a hint SOLDIERS WILL KILL THEMSELVES PERIOD, they are humans, humans kill themselves, don't want it to happen then quit putting EMO, emotionally distraught, pill popping teenagers with mental health problems in the Army duh!!. That would solve a lot of it, quit pulling people from their families night after night to fill out a 20 page leave request to drive 100 miles and have a car inspection every time I move 10 damned feet from the parking lot (especially if I already have been certified by my state that my car is "safe" with an inspection sticker).

But no leave it to the "mother may I" mentallity of the Army that is driving people insane. Most Soldiers want to do their job, and then be left the hell alone when done with the duty day. Maybe one day the Army will figure that out instead of expecting Soldiers to need to be "tucked in at night" when they are 20-50 years old.

FatCat40
10-05-2009, 03:24 AM
Ok time to bluntly honest here, but I am really growing sick of the Army "mommy" mentality. I have heard of taking care of Soldiers but we are going to the far extreme. Really do I need to sit through 4 damned motorcycle safety classes when I don't even own a bike. Or a "new improved" suicide awareness class? C'mon if you have been in the Army for more than a week now you know that suicides happen, they have always happened from the get go of warfare. Roman Caesars and Soldiers were known to kill themselves after losing in battle. So the game goes on. One suicide is too many, really? You know one WAR was too many with the little amount of a military we had. Two wars borders on the ludicrous but heaven forbid we bring back the draft hhooo that evil word we all know we need but too many Brass are scared to say it because the public might just up and say enough already, to hell with Al Qaeda come home, and of course there goes their chances at promotion to that next Officer rank.

One of the reasons for an increase in suicide that was cited was "Soldiers now live off Post" wow really? Maybe it is because they know they cannot get one damned moment of peace and quiet living on the Post. From tons of unnecessary classes and paperwork to accomplish the smallest of tasks (want to go on a two mile run better have that risk assessment for what I always start mine with the highest risk anyways DEATH) and work from there. Yeah some idiot could run out in the street and get hit by a car that is why they call them ACCIDENTS, do we really need a complete behavorial health assessment for everyone who just might have a fender bender on post or can we finally once and for all chalk it up to another distracted IDIOT who just happened to have a wreck.

Suicide god do I really need another class? Here's a hint SOLDIERS WILL KILL THEMSELVES PERIOD, they are humans, humans kill themselves, don't want it to happen then quit putting EMO, emotionally distraught, pill popping teenagers with mental health problems in the Army duh!!. That would solve a lot of it, quit pulling people from their families night after night to fill out a 20 page leave request to drive 100 miles and have a car inspection every time I move 10 damned feet from the parking lot (especially if I already have been certified by my state that my car is "safe" with an inspection sticker).

But no leave it to the "mother may I" mentallity of the Army that is driving people insane. Most Soldiers want to do their job, and then be left the hell alone when done with the duty day. Maybe one day the Army will figure that out instead of expecting Soldiers to need to be "tucked in at night" when they are 20-50 years old.

R45, once again, we're ><. And I reiterate that this "because we care" is complete and utter BS. It's to CYA in case something happens to a soldier.

Michaep
10-07-2009, 02:49 AM
This isn't so much a "stupid Army rule," as it is a stupid thing we do. Why is it if you are awarded a medal (any medal) it comes with metal safety pin like device, which if you slide it off and wanted to make your own own medal display it will fall apart. Instead your option is to buy to buy the medals from some company that puts them together for you at a hefty price. Instead why not just make the medal without the safety pin device or at least carry them optionally at he PX/BX/NX so you can make your own medal rack? With the change over to Blues as the Class A uniform, it would be nice to see more people wear their medals as opposed to ribbons. I would also like to see the PX start to carry National Guard ribbons and Medals on their website. It would make life a lot easier to replace them as they wear out.

lol yeah, because Nat. Guard uses their uniforms oh so often and their ribbons constantly get wear and tear damage

MADAMESINCERE
10-07-2009, 12:40 PM
A rather disturbing trend in the Army seems to be the inability to set priorities for any type of work to get done. The scenerio runs like this: Battalion Commmander needs this done by COB, but Company Commander needs this done by same time, CSM and 1SG have their own agenda's as well. Only one problem there exists only ONE group of Soldiers to handle everyone's task. So what happens is you have a myriad of details all going on at the same time, with Soldiers being pulled from one started task to accomplish another. The end result is usually ok you've started 50 different damned projects but have been able to complete NONE of them.

So here is the deal can we set some set of priorities here, maybe let Soldiers complete one task before starting another just once. The end result is a chaotic Command climate that makes the leadership look ineffective and chewed up, being REACTIVE instead of PROACTIVE. When all that needs to be done is someone set back and say ok we need to start and finish this today, then we will start this project when finished we will move on to this one. But no now it is everyone wants everything done by the "magic time" of "COB Today" with absolutely nothing getting accomplished and all taskings being done half-assed in order to move on to the next one.

Seems to be the same way with fighting the wars we are involved in, not just in Garrison.

"The reason that the American Army does so well in wartime is that war is chaos, and the American Army practices chaos on a daily basis..." - German General

RONALD45
10-12-2009, 04:13 AM
"The reason that the American Army does so well in wartime is that war is chaos, and the American Army practices chaos on a daily basis..." - German General

Yeah when I first came in I thought the Army was so organized to be able to accomplish all it does on a given day. Now that I have been in awhile I am even more amazed that we accomplish what we do on a given day given the fact of just how DISORGANIZED we truly are.

TEAM DADDY
10-20-2009, 07:20 PM
OH BY THE WAY I AM NOT YELLING, IT'S JUST AN OLD HABIT. OK HERE WE GO; WHY ARE NCO'S (SPECIALLY E5's AND E6's) ARE TOLD THEY ARE THE TRAINERS/LEADERS/ENFORCERS. BUT YET WHEN MAKING ON THE SPOT CORRECTIONS SPECIALLY TO OFFICERS THEY GET HAMMERED. I SALUTED 2 YOUNG CAPTAINS IN IRAQ AND THESE 2 BOZOS KEPT WALKING AND DIDN'T RETURNED MY SALUTE CAUSE THEY WERE EATING COOKIES WHILE WALKING.. WHEN I STOPPPED THEM BOTH AND EXPLAINED TO THEM THEY WERE VERY WRONG THEY REPLIED "IS OK, KEEP MOVING".

IT'S SIMPLE IN A COMBAT ENVIORNMENT YOU DON'T SALUTE THATS BEEN A STANDING ORDER FOR OVER 50 YRS

chucksnee
10-20-2009, 07:38 PM
Don't know why but I was thinking about this today...

O.K. CQ (Charge of Quarters).

CQ is 24 hours, and the norm is you cannot sleep during this time frame, the time you are up is actually longer than 24 hours....more like 26+ hours when you are done.

When you are doing a convey operation it asks you how much sleep you have had in the last 24 hours. If you have had (Insert time) prior to driving, depending on how much time you will have to get a waiver from the appropriate person, CO, BN CO, or BDE CO.

However, you can stay awake for 24+ hours and still drive home.....why would we do this to ourselves?....

TEAM DADDY
10-20-2009, 08:15 PM
By far thestupidest rule in the Army I have seen in my 18 1/2 years in the Army has to be the "hands in the pocket" rule. Standing in formation in Fort Lewis, Wa waiting in Oct - Mar can be very cold. If the uniform has pockets, why not use them? Some old timers say it does not look professional. Well Soldiers can place their hands down the front of thier pants to warm them up, which most due because there is no regulation against that, but that looks way more professional then your hands in your pocket! Lets think with our heads and stop worrying about image!



I agree totally with this... In my 19 yrs, in I have never scene a dumb rule as this one and i'm still trying to find it in AR670-1... If this so called rule doesn't want our hands in our pockets then remove the damn pockets if not my hands will be in those pockets and I will not knock any soldier for having them in there pockets in a cold enviornment....

TEAM DADDY
10-20-2009, 08:30 PM
Stupid rules in the Army? Damn, where to start. I love the Army dearly, but hot damn, can we make some stupid rules.

I'll start with my biggest beef: cell phones. I was among the last to enjoy a cell free Army(in the mid-90's). If a Soldier was released for the weekend then, well damn, they were released. The friday safety brief was the end of your week. You had two glorious days to forget the Army. I HATE, DESPISE, how most CoC's act like they pay your cell phone bill, and pretend that you are required to answer it. Every safety brief I hear "Keep your phone on!". Fuck off, just out of spite, I don't. I pay about $130 a month for my 'family plan'. I will answer it when I feel like it. Start paying my bill, and I'll be at your beck and call.

Whether you consider it stupid or not you are on duty 24/7 no if ands or buts to it.. there are no days off, you get paid around the clock 7 days a week...

bb stacker
10-20-2009, 08:41 PM
i never follow that one, if its important enough they can send a runner.

SailorDave
10-20-2009, 09:16 PM
I agree totally with this... In my 19 yrs, in I have never scene a dumb rule as this one and i'm still trying to find it in AR670-1... If this so called rule doesn't want our hands in our pockets then remove the damn pockets if not my hands will be in those pockets and I will not knock any soldier for having them in there pockets in a cold enviornment....

Because we have this same rule in the Navy, I have a question.....Were you issued gloves as part of your uniform, and if so, are they insufficient to keep your hands warm ?? Assuming, of course, that you are not forbidden to wear them for some reason or another. I hear the "Why can't we put our hands in our pockets?" question all the time and when I ask my young Sailors where their Navy issued gloves are, they always seem to be left at home, lost or some such other crap when in reality it was piss poor planning on their part in forgetting them or losing them and now they are upset when they can't put their hands in their pockets.

The pockets aren't there to put your hands in, they're there to store items you don't want to carry. That's why you're issued gloves.

chucksnee
10-21-2009, 12:42 AM
Because we have this same rule in the Navy, I have a question.....Were you issued gloves as part of your uniform, and if so, are they insufficient to keep your hands warm ?? Assuming, of course, that you are not forbidden to wear them for some reason or another. I hear the "Why can't we put our hands in our pockets?" question all the time and when I ask my young Sailors where their Navy issued gloves are, they always seem to be left at home, lost or some such other crap when in reality it was piss poor planning on their part in forgetting them or losing them and now they are upset when they can't put their hands in their pockets.

The pockets aren't there to put your hands in, they're there to store items you don't want to carry. That's why you're issued gloves.


We were also issued a ruck sack...why not put everything in it? That would be year round....

So in the Navy, and your in formation....if 1 person does not have gloves does the entire formation take it's gloves off?

The Air Force is also issued rain gear but they can use an umbrella (that is not issued)....while in uniform....

That's your opinion that the pockets are there to store items....

Hands in pockets is a stupid rule....goes back to "I don't know why we do it but someone along time ago did not like it" so therefore it is still in use....

SailorDave
10-21-2009, 02:59 AM
We were also issued a ruck sack...why not put everything in it? That would be year round....

So in the Navy, and your in formation....if 1 person does not have gloves does the entire formation take it's gloves off?

The Air Force is also issued rain gear but they can use an umbrella (that is not issued)....while in uniform....

That's your opinion that the pockets are there to store items....

Hands in pockets is a stupid rule....goes back to "I don't know why we do it but someone along time ago did not like it" so therefore it is still in use....

Not sure what the ruck sack or umbrella have to do with hands in pockets....the umbrella is an authorized optional item and the ruck sack is also issued. Because you don't use it for it's purpose, does that mean you should stuff your uniform pockets full of stuff while everyone else uses the ruck ? If you have the available uniform items, you don't need to put your hands in your pockets. Because they don't want to do that, they specifically issue you items to remedy the need.

No, in formation, if one person doesn't have them, I don't have everyone else take them off. We ensure that all members know to bring gloves with them for the formation. If someone doesn't, they have cold hands. Then they get a counseling for failure to follow directions. Or take that person and put them in a position to not be seen, then provide additional "training" in the proper wear of gloves while they're manning a post out in the cold. They won't do it a second time, nor will any others.

The point is, you're issued something to keep your hands warm, because they don't want you sticking your hands in your pockets. If you don't bring them, it's your own damned fault and you should suffer the consequences.

bravohotel43
10-21-2009, 01:53 PM
The point is, you're issued something to keep your hands warm, because they don't want you sticking your hands in your pockets. If you don't bring them, it's your own damned fault and you should suffer the consequences.

Just because it's issued doesn't always mean we can wear it. I'm no soldier, but us Marines aren't issued gloves. There are certain store-bought gloves we're allowed to wear, but only when the command starts authorizing it. If the command doesn't authorize it, we're SOL if it's cold.

I believe in the Army it's the same deal.

chucksnee
10-21-2009, 10:20 PM
Not sure what the ruck sack or umbrella have to do with hands in pockets....the umbrella is an authorized optional item and the ruck sack is also issued. Because you don't use it for it's purpose, does that mean you should stuff your uniform pockets full of stuff while everyone else uses the ruck ? If you have the available uniform items, you don't need to put your hands in your pockets. Because they don't want to do that, they specifically issue you items to remedy the need.

No, in formation, if one person doesn't have them, I don't have everyone else take them off. We ensure that all members know to bring gloves with them for the formation. If someone doesn't, they have cold hands. Then they get a counseling for failure to follow directions. Or take that person and put them in a position to not be seen, then provide additional "training" in the proper wear of gloves while they're manning a post out in the cold. They won't do it a second time, nor will any others.

The point is, you're issued something to keep your hands warm, because they don't want you sticking your hands in your pockets. If you don't bring them, it's your own damned fault and you should suffer the consequences.

The rucksack is issued so we should use it right? Then why not all the time....the ACU's are issued so why not use what was given to us....No use the ruck to put everything in so you don't use your pockets...

The umbrella, it is not issued but can be used....

So why not use the pockets that are issued to you?

Welcome to the Army, if one person does not have gloves in formation then NOBODY does...that just does not go for gloves either...Field jackets....does not matter....

Who is "THEY?" can you please define who "THEY" is? See that is the problem...someone said they don't like it....does not matter if it was 50 years ago, it is still defined as "Not like able" by whose standards? A person who has not been in the military for the last 50 years.

O.K. here you go....."He" did not salute the flag ("he" is our commander in chief) do we now not salute the flag? The commander in chief did not salute the flag.... that's your logic...right?

chucksnee
10-21-2009, 10:21 PM
Just because it's issued doesn't always mean we can wear it. I'm no soldier, but us Marines aren't issued gloves. There are certain store-bought gloves we're allowed to wear, but only when the command starts authorizing it. If the command doesn't authorize it, we're SOL if it's cold.

I believe in the Army it's the same deal.

Now what do you say SailorDave?

SailorDave
10-22-2009, 01:14 AM
Are you Army or not ? Were you issued gloves or not ? This thread is about stupid Army rules (and in this case, it fits for Navy, too). We're issued gloves in the Navy, so we're required to wear them in cold weather situations. If the Army issues gloves, they should be worn instead of sticking hands in pockets.

If the ruck is an approved addition to the uniform you're wearing and you want to carry it instead of putting your stuff in your pockets, are you not authorized to carry it ?

As far as the USMC gloves are concerned...whether they're issued or not, Marines are REQUIRED to carry them

3011. GLOVES
1. During the winter uniform period, Marines will wear/carry black leather, vinyl, or cloth (women only) gloves when an outer coat is worn with the service uniform. Black gloves may be worn/carried with the service "A" uniform or service uniform with sweater or tanker jacket at the individual's option; however, local commanders will designate whether gloves will be worn by troops in formation.
By not carrying them, issued or not, they are in violation of a regulation.

The point is this....you want to stick your hands in your pockets because it's cold. If you wear the gloves that are either issued or required, you don't have that problem. If you have people in your unit who come to a cold weather formation without them and you all have to take them off, don't bitch about not being able to stick them in your pocket. Square away your Soldiers so that doesn't happen again. The problem is with people who either refuse or cannot seem to follow simple directions. Fix that and the rest is easy. You don't water down the regulation to accommodate the non-hackers. You square them away so that you're all on the same page, just like any other regulation.

chucksnee
10-22-2009, 01:57 AM
The POINT is.....it IS NOT A RULE....IT IS NOT a regulation....It is what SOMEONE said...WHAT someone liked ALONG TIME AGO...

You said SailorDave "They" did not like it...Who is "they" and if it was THAT much of a deal why was it not made into a regulation?

Because you have rank does not mean you can JUST MAKE A RULE...and have it apply to the entire Army/Military.

It is a STUPID ARMY "wanna be regulation" can you not understand that? Because it happens to relates to the Navy means nothing....And if you look at what you quoted....it says WHEN AN OVER COAT IS WORN....what if you don't wear an overcoat? Do they still have to carry gloves during the winter?


Either way...it's stupid....again do I have to salute the flag, the POTUS did not?

SailorDave
10-22-2009, 02:25 AM
The POINT is.....it IS NOT A RULE....IT IS NOT a regulation....It is what SOMEONE said...WHAT someone liked ALONG TIME AGO...
Yes, IT IS A REGULATION. AR670-1, Army Uniform Regulations
1–9. Uniform appearance and fit
(3) While in uniform, personnel will not place their hands in their pockets, except momentarily to place or retrieve objects.

You said SailorDave "They" did not like it...Who is "they" and if it was THAT much of a deal why was it not made into a regulation?
"They" are the people who write the uniform regulations, which get approved by the highest levels of your service organization. Refer to my above about the regulation.

Because you have rank does not mean you can JUST MAKE A RULE...and have it apply to the entire Army/Military.
Yes, it does, if you're the person in the big Army chain of command who approves uniform items.


It is a STUPID ARMY "wanna be regulation" can you not understand that? Because it happens to relates to the Navy means nothing....And if you look at what you quoted....it says WHEN AN OVER COAT IS WORN....what if you don't wear an overcoat? Do they still have to carry gloves during the winter?
No, they would not be required to carry them, but they are also not prohibited. However, the prescribing authority can direct gloves to be worn during any certain formation. The SNCO or Officer in Charge can make the same direction, because they hold authority over those members in the formation. Failure to wear the gloves after being told to do so constitutes disobeying a lawful order.


Either way...it's stupid....again do I have to salute the flag, the POTUS did not?
The POTUS doesn't have to salute the flag because he's a civilian and not a member of the Armed Forces. No more than the SecDef, any of the principle civilian leaders of the DoD, or any other civilian. Saluting the flag is required specifically for members of the Armed Forces only.

imported_Copecwby20
10-22-2009, 05:27 PM
Just because it's issued doesn't always mean we can wear it. I'm no soldier, but us Marines aren't issued gloves. There are certain store-bought gloves we're allowed to wear, but only when the command starts authorizing it. If the command doesn't authorize it, we're SOL if it's cold.

I believe in the Army it's the same deal.

I'm pretty sure we are issued gloves there killer. Old school leather shells with knit liners, or the new OR gloves from the CIF. Either way, we have gloves that are issued. We also have black leather gloves that are issued in bootcamp to wear with the all weather coat.

SailorDave
11-09-2009, 05:55 PM
Be glad you weren't around 60 years ago when enlisteds had to actually get a pass to leave post or wear civilian clothes.

former31B
11-09-2009, 10:17 PM
I had a MSG in the last unit I was in that insisted that pens cannot be placed in those slots on the forearm of the ACU. You know, those slots specifically designed and placed there to hold writing utensils. He asked me, "do you think the Army would spend all that money designing that uniform to put pens in it? It looks unprofessional."

After being yelled at for having a pen there, I wanted so badly to show him all the articles about the ACU and it's many improvements...such as, the pen holder. But alas, I was new to the unit, significantly outranked, and this MSG was within a year of retirement. He turned out to be a great mentor, just stuck with some crazy ideas. He represents the mindset that forced everyone to press the BDUs and will soon force everyone to press their ACUs because it "looks more professional".

Creaminess
11-10-2009, 06:40 AM
I didn't read through all these posts, so I don't know if this was already addressed, but...

If this is still in place (and to my knowledge, it is), the Army only has one "authorized" sexual position (the missionary position) and prohibits Soldiers from engaging in other sexual acts. If it is between two consenting adults of legal age, and neither of them is married or otherwise prohibited from engaging in sexual activity with another person, then sex in any position should be left between those two individuals. And if they choose to engage in oral or anal sex, that is their business. The Army has no business meddling in the sex lives of its members so long as no REAL crimes are being committed.

Tell me any of you actually adhere to the "missionary-position only" law in the UCMJ. I doubt anybody can say they've never broken that stupid rule.

Also, on that subject, I don't care if two Soldiers of the same gender engage in sexual activity. There are currently gays in the military, and there have been gays in the military probably as long as we've had a military, so it's time to end THAT stupid rule too. Allowing homosexuals to serve openly is no more a disruption of good order and discipline than is allowing Soldiers to openly exhibit bias against homosexuals. I cannot bash others in the military because of their gender, race, color, national origin, or religion. Why can the Army (or, to be more precise, the Department of Defense) be biased against servicemembers because of their sexual orientation? That makes no sense to me.

And by the way, this is from somebody who originally was opposed to allowing gays to openly serve. Over the years, I have come to realize that it's more important to have quality Soldiers in the Army than to worry about what those Soldiers do in the privacy of their own bedrooms. It's time the military adopts that same mindset.

Creaminess
11-10-2009, 06:47 AM
I'm pretty sure we are issued gloves there killer. Old school leather shells with knit liners, or the new OR gloves from the CIF. Either way, we have gloves that are issued. We also have black leather gloves that are issued in bootcamp to wear with the all weather coat.

Yes, the Army DOES issue gloves, as you've stated. What I think is stupid is that a commander has to decide when it's "cold enough" to start wearing gloves or other cold weather gear in formation. I understand uniformity when it comes to ceremonies and whatnot, but what about a unit having a morning formation in the motor pool for weekly motor stables? Some Soldiers have a higher tolerance for cold than others (I'll take the cold over the heat anyday of the week), but it's not for me to tell a Soldier that it's not "cold enough" to wear their Army-issued gear in formation. I don't think it's contrary to good order and discipline if the Soldier standing next to me in formation is wearing gloves and a field jacket because he's cold but I'm not because I'm not cold enough for that gear yet.

I actually had a platoon sergeant when I was a junior NCO who got on one of my Soldiers because she wore her Gore-tex jacket and gloves to a morning formation when it was pretty chilly because the commander hadn't yet authorized the wear of that gear for the company. He had the nerve to tell her, "I'll tell you when you're cold." That is ridiculous. How the hell do YOU know when a Soldier is cold?

vette88
11-10-2009, 12:22 PM
Yes, the Army DOES issue gloves, as you've stated. What I think is stupid is that a commander has to decide when it's "cold enough" to start wearing gloves or other cold weather gear in formation. I understand uniformity when it comes to ceremonies and whatnot, but what about a unit having a morning formation in the motor pool for weekly motor stables? Some Soldiers have a higher tolerance for cold than others (I'll take the cold over the heat anyday of the week), but it's not for me to tell a Soldier that it's not "cold enough" to wear their Army-issued gear in formation. I don't think it's contrary to good order and discipline if the Soldier standing next to me in formation is wearing gloves and a field jacket because he's cold but I'm not because I'm not cold enough for that gear yet.

I actually had a platoon sergeant when I was a junior NCO who got on one of my Soldiers because she wore her Gore-tex jacket and gloves to a morning formation when it was pretty chilly because the commander hadn't yet authorized the wear of that gear for the company. He had the nerve to tell her, "I'll tell you when you're cold." That is ridiculous. How the hell do YOU know when a Soldier is cold?

I remeber that same crap for PT too. Be freaking cold outside, but nooooooooooo, because some higher brain thought it wasn't cold enough yet, we could only wear short sleeve pt and shorts. I loved being a grown adult in the Army, but not being able to decide for myself when it's cold or hot outside. Nope, need someone else to think for me.

Lancer6
11-17-2009, 03:34 AM
I personally don't understand why if Im in uniform and I have a valid military ID card and have a valid post decal sticker do I have to get searched for comming on post. this is ridiculous, I have been late a few times for this matter and totally makes me feel less as a soldier, plus they have DOD police doing the inspections and have no consideration that i might be in a hurry or have something important to do rather than stand around and check ID cards all day.. If Im in civilian clothes understandable, but come on..

Case and point... MAJ Nidal Malik Hasan 5NOV09, 13 killed / 30 wounded on post at Fort Hood. Not a stupid rule to search Soldiers in uniform.

Lancer6
11-17-2009, 03:42 AM
Good responses... right on.

MCGYVER
11-17-2009, 05:04 AM
Case and point... MAJ Nidal Malik Hasan 5NOV09, 13 killed / 30 wounded on post at Fort Hood. Not a stupid rule to search Soldiers in uniform.

Um, it's "case in point" and searching this clown wouldn't have changed a thing. You are allowed to transport Personally Owned Weapons as long as they are not with the ammunition (i.e. weapons in the glove box, ammo in the trunk). The guy was obviously not stupid, he would have known this. He was a lunatic but not a dumb one.

KITULU
12-01-2009, 06:34 PM
In my unit...

You can add to, but not take away.

No one is allowed to do PT in the gym during PT hours according to "division policy" which on one can actually produce.

You cannot go to any Army schooling (WLC, BNCOC, ANCOC, etc) if you do not pass tape by AT LEAST 2%, even though the Army standard is 0% over/under.

NCOPDs are only attended by SSG and above.

While all the "real" NCOs are at the NCOPD, which is scheduled at 1630, none of the lower enlisted soldiers are allowed to be dismissed for the day at COB because they have to wait for notes to be put out...said notes usually being "0630 PT formation tomorrow".

If one person gets a DUI over the weekend, EVERYONE is called in the following morning, in Class As, for a "mandatory" DUI safety briefing.

No-notice PT test given on Valentines Day, which was also in the middle of a 4-day weekend.

Prior to deployment, half-days to spend with family were not allowed because there was "too much to do"...and most of the time was spent "standing by" in the shop/office.

While deployed, a platoon sgt recieved a negative counseling from the 1SG for not checking his e-mail on a daily basis even though said platoon sgt did not have a NIPER drop in his office.

Negative counselings given while deployed for moustache being "out of regulation" instead of merely instructing the otherwise stellar NCO to fix it.

Soldiers being deployed who really have no job downrange and spend 90% of thier time in their room/MWR.

I could go on...

KITULU
12-01-2009, 08:31 PM
...and I am going on...

Gore-tex and gloves must be worn for formation. ONLY the gore-tex and gloves are authorized. If you are new and have not been to CIF/RFI yet, you CANNOT wear your field jacket.

ECWIS not authorized for wear...until the Division Commander put out a memo directing the COC to allow us to wear it if it was cold out.

The only gloves authorized for pt are the leather shells and knit liners...the high-speed BLACK LEATHER gloves issued through RFI that are 100x warmer are not authorized, even though my hands always freeze in the "basic training" gloves.

No gore-tex/wet-weather gear allowed to be worn in formation even if it is raining cats and dogs.

Not being released from pt formation until 0800 'cause Top wanted to make a speech, and still being told that I have a 0900 work call...with a 40-60 minute round trip to the house and back (depending on traffic), and still have to shower and eat.

Telling me that I have to go to a mandatory cookout/BBQ/Christmas/pre-deployment party, and that my wife has to come too. riiight...you tell her. So far as I am concerned, Kitchen 6 outranks you in regards to her time.

Mandatory purchase ($10 or more) of company/batallion/division t-shirts.

Everyones' IOTV must be set up the same way, with all the same pouches set up on the same sides, regardless of which hand you fire from and what weapon you carry...seriously, do I really need 6 ammo pouches for three 9-mil mags? The only pouch that should be "universal" is the first aid pouch.

You have to have the camelbak AND two canteens on your IOTV...wasn't the camelbak supposed to take the place of the canteens?

KITULU
12-01-2009, 08:42 PM
...and I am going on...

Gore-tex and gloves must be worn for formation. ONLY the gore-tex and gloves are authorized. If you are new and have not been to CIF/RFI yet, you CANNOT wear your field jacket.

ECWIS not authorized for wear...until the Division Commander put out a memo directing the COC to allow us to wear it if it was cold out.

The only gloves authorized for pt are the leather shells and knit liners...the high-speed BLACK LEATHER gloves issued through RFI that are 100x warmer are not authorized, even though my hands always freeze in the "basic training" gloves.

No gore-tex/wet-weather gear allowed to be worn in formation even if it is raining cats and dogs.

Not being released from pt formation until 0800 'cause Top wanted to make a speech, and still being told that I have a 0900 work call...with a 40-60 minute round trip to the house and back (depending on traffic), and still have to shower and eat.

Telling me that I have to go to a mandatory cookout/BBQ/Christmas/pre-deployment party, and that my wife has to come too. riiight...you tell her. So far as I am concerned, Kitchen 6 outranks you in regards to her time.

Mandatory purchase ($10 or more) of company/batallion/division t-shirts.

Everyones' IOTV must be set up the same way, with all the same pouches set up on the same sides, regardless of which hand you fire from and what weapon you carry...seriously, do I really need 6 ammo pouches for three 9-mil mags? The only pouch that should be "universal" is the first aid pouch.

You have to have the camelbak AND two canteens on your IOTV...wasn't the camelbak supposed to take the place of the canteens?

adrbuddy
12-01-2009, 08:44 PM
See Ladies and Gentlemen:

As you can see, I am not the only one that thinks some of the ARMY Regulations are too extreme to the point that they are breaking our ARMY apart. These small stupid regulations are killing our ARMY. These type of rules are basic human rights that our soldiers derserve. All these regulations need to be re-looked at, revised and definately re- written to accomodate our new Generation...

Thanks again for your time.

Best,
ADRBUDDY

chucksnee
12-01-2009, 08:53 PM
See Ladies and Gentlemen:

As you can see, I am not the only one that thinks some of the ARMY Regulations are too extreme to the point that they are breaking our ARMY apart. These small stupid regulations are killing our ARMY. These type of rules are basic human rights that our soldiers derserve. All these regulations need to be re-looked at, revised and definately re- written to accomodate our new Generation...

Thanks again for your time.

Best,
ADRBUDDY

99% of KITULU complaints are not from an AR, they are command decision....

I do agree with them, but again, those are command driven not AR driven...

You cannot show me where it says in any requlation where it says this (Gore-tex and gloves must be worn for formation. ONLY the gore-tex and gloves are authorized. If you are new and have not been to CIF/RFI yet, you CANNOT wear your field jacket.)

adrbuddy
12-01-2009, 09:14 PM
Exactly!!!

That is a very good point. But there is a regulation outthere giving this command the power to enforced this type of belief. For example, going back to my Hair. I do not think i need to shave my head to look professional. I have been living the NYC area too long to see what really professionalism is all about. Having said that, i am not saying i am going to let my hair grow to the point i can get a pony tail. Someone outhere things having a well groomed, nice looking mohawk style looks great and cops are even wearing them around the cities. But no...I have to get rid of mine becuase some jerk out there things i am breaking the law. Even when i had my COC read the regulation and approved my haircut. The regulation it is not clear at all. It is does give you guidance to determine when some ones hair is too extreme, But still it does not say you need to shave your head. It is an inconsistency that the ARMY has, and it has to stop, before it is too late. We are already too small and over doing our current soldiers who deserve to have human rights. THere is also no proven facts that this type of regulations help the military. I do know this. When you go to a public place and you are not wearing a uniform,it is better to blend in, becuase as soon as they know you are in the military, you are making yourself a target to whoever is out there to harm you . We need to avoid being targets, and we do need to blend in.

But focusing again about the regulations , most ARs are outdated, and do not work for this new type of generation.

Thanks again,

adrbuddy

chucksnee
12-01-2009, 11:08 PM
Exactly!!!

enforced this type of belief.

adrbuddy

You have answered your own question with your statement.

I agree, ALL regulation that are written need to be re-looked at.

That will never happen, I wish it would....

Regulations need to adjust to the times....however when it comes to being professional...usually...that will stick with the older regs....

Should it be that way....???? The world will never know....

RONALD45
12-02-2009, 12:50 AM
As stated most of these are not "Army regulations" but "rules" made up by a jackass Army commander who had rather have a "knee jerk" reaction to a problem other than fixing the damned problem. The problem is that most Commanders upon reaching this rank think they have become "Lord and Master" over their Soldiers. Basically it means they can react AND NOT HAVE TO ACTUALLY THINK which is what is taught in most colleges these stupid morons graduate from today as common sense has been replaced by group think and political correctness.

Another glaring example I am supposed to be available for contact by my Soldiers at all times, yet I cannot walk and talk on a cell phone at the same time RIIIGGGGHHHHTTTT again MORONS.

Let me get this straight as a nurse I can monitor an ICU monitor, ekg, heart rate and rhythm, pulse oximetry, temperature, and arterial blood pressure, I can watch 10 IV medications infuse at the same time a milligram more of the wrong one which can cause instaneous death, plus urine output, NG tube output, and a ventilator machine breathing for the patient. I can interpret labs and squiggly lines on a piece of graph paper to tell me your having a heart attack and what type and the location of said heart attack in the heart muscle.

Yet for some strange reason unknownst to science I cannot talk and walk on a damned cell phone AT THE SAME TIME.

Granted most of those who come up with these ideas are "combat arms types" so maybe THEY can't talk and walk at the same time afterall it does take a certain amount of "gray matter" to accomplish this simple task.

chucksnee
12-02-2009, 01:03 AM
Granted most of those who come up with these ideas are "combat arms types" so maybe THEY can't talk and walk at the same time afterall it does take a certain amount of "gray matter" to accomplish this simple task.


Yes sirree.....

VOA
12-02-2009, 06:00 PM
Here's the deal. I just got an account so I could reply on this thread. Ronald45, I agree with a lot of your complaints and hope that someone pays attention to them. However, there are some rules that the Army has in place for a good reason, regardless of the fact that they were created by pencil pushers or combat arms. Prime examples of these rules are the 'hands in pockets' rule and the rules about talking on a cell phone or smoking/eating while walking. As members of the US Army we are held to a higher standard than our civilian counterparts. Having your hands in your pockets makes you look unprofessional and lazy. It detracts from the 'hard' and 'ready for anything' appearance that we as Soldiers are supposed to portray. Have you ever tried yelling at a soldier with your hands in your pockets? Probably not, because when you want to be taken seriously, you have to appear serious, as all Soldiers should (This is, after all the Army). As far as walking and talking on a phone, or smoking/eating, almost the exact same applies. I have witnessed Soldiers committing all these activities while walking, and it looks sloppy and completely unprofessional. There is nothing wrong with, when you receive a phone call while walking, with stopping momentarily and telling the person on the other line to hold on a second until you can get somewhere to talk. Also, there's voice mail. As far as smoking and eating go, there is absolutely no reason ever why that should be done while in walking in uniform. I am balls to the wall busy every day from 0500 to 1800 and I can honestly say that I've never had to face the question of walk or smoke/eat.

VOA
12-02-2009, 06:37 PM
To pitch in my own 2 cents though:

1. PT belts in theater, formation, or anywhere. The uniform is REFLECTIVE.

2. Organized PT in theater; we shouldn't be more worried about scoring a mandatory 270 on our PT test than a sniper bullet.

3. Female Soldiers being allowed to use the Army to become duty/deployment-dodging, government-sponsored baby factories.

4. Single lower enlisted Soldiers being forced to use meal card if they live in the barracks. I understand having them stay in the barracks, but forcing them to eat on the erratic schedule of a DFAC where the civilians limit their meat portions is ridiculous. I can't count the number of times that we've gotten back from training after hours and Soldiers had to use their own pay to eat, when it was out of their hands. Either fix the DFACs, or give the guys their full BAS.

5. The beret. Sure, it looks cool, but I don't think that's the Army's mission.

6. Wearing headgear in a TMP.

7. Making leaders stay with their Soldiers when they're on extra duty. That's supposed to be staff duty's job. What incentive do we have for doing the right thing and enforcing standards if we're going to be punished alongside them anyway?

FatCat40
12-03-2009, 01:00 AM
To pitch in my own 2 cents though:

3. Female Soldiers being allowed to use the Army to become duty/deployment-dodging, government-sponsored baby factories.


7. Making leaders stay with their Soldiers when they're on extra duty. That's supposed to be staff duty's job. What incentive do we have for doing the right thing and enforcing standards if we're going to be punished alongside them anyway?

YES!!!! I agree with both of these 100%!

RONALD45
12-03-2009, 05:58 PM
Here's the deal. I just got an account so I could reply on this thread. Ronald45, I agree with a lot of your complaints and hope that someone pays attention to them. However, there are some rules that the Army has in place for a good reason, regardless of the fact that they were created by pencil pushers or combat arms. Prime examples of these rules are the 'hands in pockets' rule and the rules about talking on a cell phone or smoking/eating while walking. As members of the US Army we are held to a higher standard than our civilian counterparts. Having your hands in your pockets makes you look unprofessional and lazy. It detracts from the 'hard' and 'ready for anything' appearance that we as Soldiers are supposed to portray. Have you ever tried yelling at a soldier with your hands in your pockets? Probably not, because when you want to be taken seriously, you have to appear serious, as all Soldiers should (This is, after all the Army). As far as walking and talking on a phone, or smoking/eating, almost the exact same applies. I have witnessed Soldiers committing all these activities while walking, and it looks sloppy and completely unprofessional. There is nothing wrong with, when you receive a phone call while walking, with stopping momentarily and telling the person on the other line to hold on a second until you can get somewhere to talk. Also, there's voice mail. As far as smoking and eating go, there is absolutely no reason ever why that should be done while in walking in uniform. I am balls to the wall busy every day from 0500 to 1800 and I can honestly say that I've never had to face the question of walk or smoke/eat.

I agree to a point smoking ANYWHERE as well as dipping or chewing looks unprofessional. As for as walking/talking on a cell phone, ever been near a major hospital, court house or NYC? What are most PROFESSIONAL people doing that's right walking and talking on a cell phone. So if someone in a 3 piece suit can look professional whilst doing it why not a Soldier in Uniform carrying out official duties. It is like the umbrella we cannot carry it in uniform cause it doesn't look professional. Nope looks more professional to go to work looking like a drowned rat in a soaking wet uniform and water squishing from the boots with every step.

RONALD45
12-03-2009, 06:01 PM
To pitch in my own 2 cents though:


7. Making leaders stay with their Soldiers when they're on extra duty. That's supposed to be staff duty's job. What incentive do we have for doing the right thing and enforcing standards if we're going to be punished alongside them anyway?

Yeah why not carry this out to it's stupid logical conclusion if one of my Soldiers does a crime I guess I should go to jail right along with them right. Afterall I am their supervisor:rolleyes:

VOA
12-03-2009, 06:17 PM
Yeah why not carry this out to it's stupid logical conclusion if one of my Soldiers does a crime I guess I should go to jail right along with them right. Afterall I am their supervisor:rolleyes:

Exactly, and believe it or not, it's already headed in that direction. I've already seen some fellow NCOs receive negative counselings in conjunction with their Soldiers getting an Article 15!

To reply on the cell phone usage, you're right. In the civilian world, the professionals talk on the phone and it doesn't detract from their appearance. It just doesn't look as good when Soldiers do it. Maybe it has something to do with our camouflage pattern....:D

RONALD45
12-04-2009, 12:34 AM
Exactly, and believe it or not, it's already headed in that direction. I've already seen some fellow NCOs receive negative counselings in conjunction with their Soldiers getting an Article 15!

To reply on the cell phone usage, you're right. In the civilian world, the professionals talk on the phone and it doesn't detract from their appearance. It just doesn't look as good when Soldiers do it. Maybe it has something to do with our camouflage pattern....:D

I think it has more to do with some Brass personal opinion. Stop and think I can be in the field and walk and talk on a squad radio, have done it many times. I can call in a 9 line medevac request while at the same time continue to treat the patient. Hell I can even drive a MILITARY VEHICLE AND TALK ON A MILITARY RADIO (military vehicles are far heavier, bigger and harder to control than civilian autos) but for some unknownst reason other than someone's idea of what "professional look" is I cannot do the exact same thing with a cell phone in hand sounds less like professionalism and more along the lines of some old fuddy duddy doesn't want to embrace new technologies of Leaders staying in touch with their troops and rather hold endless formations to relay information instead because afterall that is the way it has always been done.

Lucky6Agent
04-16-2010, 08:42 PM
What about the lack of rules? Case in point - The Army Writing Style has been thrown out the window and given way to the worst grammar and spelling that I have seen on NCOER's and other paperwork.

We can use the 18 pages of this thread as another example.

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

adrbuddy
04-16-2010, 09:16 PM
Oh my god Tell me about it ! ....

The ARMY is full of inconsistencies. Leadership does not really care about their soldiers anyway. At least that is what i have learned for the past 6 years of my contract.

ADRBUDDY

BIOS
08-19-2013, 04:05 PM
Ever heard of TRADOC? Let me give you a small taste of what it's currently like to be in AIT

1. No drinking. Ever.

2. No leave (except emergency and holiday exodus)

3. No travel outside of the set radius (which sucks when you're in bloody nowhere)

4. Night formations (i.e. - COB at 1700, accountability formation at 2100, bedcheck at 2300 fri, sat nights, wtf?) God forbid I have any time to myself.

5. Battle buddies, at all times, same sex only. I've also heard of permanent battle buddies (i.e.- your roommate) I don't know any females who can handle their roommates for that long, even when they do get along. Thanks for screwing all the females in male dominated MOSs, so much for integrating women into new MOSs or, you know, creating any kind of cohesion between men and women. Apparently we're all too paranoid about SHARP for that to work out, God forbid I'll get to a unit and find myself surrounded by members of the opposite sex.

6. Once a month PT tests - because making you take twelve when only one of them actually counts is the only way to know if you'll pass!


Here's some fun ones unique to my company

- Formation movement at all times - This is epic, my 1SG decided we can only move in formation in groups of 4 or more. So after COB when we go back to our barracks, we have to form up and march 10-20 feet back to our barracks. No joke.

- Once a week ruck marches - Let's wake everyone up an hour earlier so we can march god knows where before we march everywhere else the rest of the day. What's an 18 hour day when all the others are 17? Remember: Don't fall asleep in class.

- Saturday everything! - We don't have time for additional training during the week, we're just going to send you to class all day on Saturday. We don't do enough field training, let's do a once a month FTX on a saturday to go over all the things you learned in basic, so we can do less on the real FTX! You can sleep when you're dead.


Yeah, AIT is a joy. If anyone had told me that it was going to suck this much, I'd have picked a much easier, shorter AIT, so I could get screwed for about a quarter of the time.

Mr. Joe
09-15-2013, 07:40 PM
Agree with Nurses can multitask better than most people! (My daughter is one.)
Add that years ago you had to bring in an empty cardboard roll to get a new roll of Toilet Paper , and a burnt out light bulb to get a New Bulb from Army Supply room.

CORNELIUSSEON
11-22-2013, 04:10 AM
. PT in formation in a combat zone
2. Formations in a combat zone
3. Eyewear, Ear plugs, when mowing or weed eating really does anyone wear this crap when mowing a lawn at home????
4. Reflective belts with a PT uniform period wasn't the thing touted to be "reflective when we bought it"
5. Wearing a reflective belt with PT's at NOON in a war zone
6. The "troop strap" on the backs of cargo trucks really have these things ever prevented a Soldier from being injured in a rollover, accident etc.
7. Banning of social network sites in a combat zone, then the Army come up with it's own myspace, facebook etc page
8. Barracks inspections (you don't do housing inspections do you, turn the barracks over to POST housing and if a problem let THEM inspect)
9. Giving Single Females who get pregnant military housing (aren't these the type of "irresponsible" people you would want in the barracks in order to keep an eye on)
10. Keeping the injured, infirm, non deployable on the "books" in order to increase numbers of the unit, even though these folks cannot perform the mission.
11. Keeping the above IN THE MILITARY instead of medboarding them out
12. Not talking on a cell phone when driving (yet you can talk on any military communication gear while doing the same)
13. Keeping troops at work when you obviously must come up with work for them to do to justify having them there to begin with (ie yard detail, area beautification etc hire some damned landscapers already lord knows we waste enough money on everything else)
14.

3) This one has been around for a very long time, and was established for two very good reasons. Eyewear is a good idea since very few people take the time and trouble to do a police call before mowing lawns, with the result that solid objects are ejected out the cut grass port that can hit the operator. As for Earplugs, I remember when they were made mandatory issue items to cut down on troops suffering from Tinnitus from being subject to excess noise from not only from lawn mowers, but from vehicles with very loud engines and firearms on the range. Eliminating these two items would reverse the hearing and face protection.

6) Troop Straps were originally added to cargo trucks to provide something for troops to hold onto when boarding or alighting from the trucks. It was never intended to prevent troops from being ejected in the event of a rollover or other accident.

8) Barracks Inspections have been part of Troop Discipline for a very long time. When the Military handled their own Post Housing, there were indeed housing Inspections, both when the incoming occupant took occupancy and when the outgoing occupant relinquished occupancy. The Housing Inspections indeed passed on to the private Land Lords when the Military got out of the Post Housing business. Barracks - on the other hand - are required to be operated by the Military to provide sufficient housing to house all of the members of a unit. Of course, Post and Off Post housing have become the norm these days, but Barracks are still required.
(12) Talking on Cell Phones while driving vehicles is now illegal in a rising number of States, so the ship has sailed on that recommendation. As to Radio Communication, It was always the person in the right-hand front seat who was the Radio Operator for the exact reason that it was long ago judged unsafe for the Driver to be the Radio Operator while the vehicle is moving.

TJMAC77SP
11-22-2013, 01:56 PM
3) This one has been around for a very long time, and was established for two very good reasons. Eyewear is a good idea since very few people take the time and trouble to do a police call before mowing lawns, with the result that solid objects are ejected out the cut grass port that can hit the operator. As for Earplugs, I remember when they were made mandatory issue items to cut down on troops suffering from Tinnitus from being subject to excess noise from not only from lawn mowers, but from vehicles with very loud engines and firearms on the range. Eliminating these two items would reverse the hearing and face protection.

6) Troop Straps were originally added to cargo trucks to provide something for troops to hold onto when boarding or alighting from the trucks. It was never intended to prevent troops from being ejected in the event of a rollover or other accident.

8) Barracks Inspections have been part of Troop Discipline for a very long time. When the Military handled their own Post Housing, there were indeed housing Inspections, both when the incoming occupant took occupancy and when the outgoing occupant relinquished occupancy. The Housing Inspections indeed passed on to the private Land Lords when the Military got out of the Post Housing business. Barracks - on the other hand - are required to be operated by the Military to provide sufficient housing to house all of the members of a unit. Of course, Post and Off Post housing have become the norm these days, but Barracks are still required.
(12) Talking on Cell Phones while driving vehicles is now illegal in a rising number of States, so the ship has sailed on that recommendation. As to Radio Communication, It was always the person in the right-hand front seat who was the Radio Operator for the exact reason that it was long ago judged unsafe for the Driver to be the Radio Operator while the vehicle is moving.

I find your use of word capitalization to be interesting.

raider8169
11-22-2013, 06:10 PM
Anyone else love it when threads from 4 years ago are recycled?