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View Full Version : Is this BAH fraud?



FatCat40
04-09-2009, 11:40 AM
Single E6 has 2 children. Gets BAH at the w/dependant rate but both kids live fulltime w/non military custodial parent. Service member pays no child support at all. Situation has been going on for 5 yrs. IMO this is dishonest at best and fraud at worst. The kids seldom even visit.

Battleshort
04-09-2009, 11:55 AM
Single E6 has 2 children. Gets BAH at the w/dependant rate but both kids live fulltime w/non military custodial parent. Service member pays no child support at all. Situation has been going on for 5 yrs. IMO this is dishonest at best and fraud at worst. The kids seldom even visit.

Report it.

CrustySMSgt
04-09-2009, 12:30 PM
Sounds wrong to me (given the presented info)

imported_WILDJOKER5
04-09-2009, 12:33 PM
Are the kids legally supposed to be with the mil member? If they dont pay child support, have they given up rights to the child? If so, then they dont have dependents and shouldnt get BAH.

fufu
06-18-2009, 06:23 AM
Proof? Seriously, butt outta people lives.

imported_pheenix
06-22-2009, 01:11 PM
Proof? Seriously, butt outta people lives.

Exactly...allowing potential fraud to go unreported is so much more noble.

Measure Man
06-22-2009, 01:17 PM
Actually this is not fraud at all.

The member is entitled to BAH with dependent rate. He has dependents. How often he visits his children and how much he pays in child support...has nothing to do with it.

Unless he is not meeting his court-ordered child support, there is no issue here.

imported_Seasons
06-22-2009, 01:20 PM
Actually this is not fraud at all.

The member is entitled to BAH with dependent rate. He has dependents. How often he visits his children and how much he pays in child support...has nothing to do with it.

Unless he is not meeting his court-ordered child support, there is no issue here.

Perhaps the issue then is if they qualify to be listed as his dependents.

imported_Seasons
06-22-2009, 01:21 PM
Proof? Seriously, butt outta people lives.

All servicemembers have a duty to report fraud, waste, and abuse.

CrustySMSgt
06-23-2009, 01:34 PM
Actually this is not fraud at all.

The member is entitled to BAH with dependent rate. He has dependents. How often he visits his children and how much he pays in child support...has nothing to do with it.

Unless he is not meeting his court-ordered child support, there is no issue here.

Unless I'm reading the reg wrong, I think you're wrong:

http://www.defenselink.mil/comptroller/fmr/07a/07aarch/07A26j.pdf


260406. Support of Dependents
A. Proof of Support. The statutory purpose of BAH on behalf of a dependent is
to at least partially reimburse members for the expense of providing private quarters for their
dependents when government quarters are not furnished. The entitlement is not to pay BAH on behalf
of a dependent as a bonus merely due to the technical status of being married or a parent. Proof of
support of a lawful spouse or unmarried, minor, legitimate child of a member generally is not required.
When evidence (e.g., special investigation reports; record reviews; fraud, waste and abuse complaints;
sworn testimony of individuals; statement by member) or complaints from dependents of nonsupport or
inadequate support of dependents are received, however, proof of adequate support as stated in
subparagraph 260406.E shall be required.

According to this the member SHALL pay support as a requisite to receiving with dependant rate, even in the absence of a court order


E. Adequate Support. If the support requirements are not established by court
order or legal separation agreement, a member shall provide support in an amount that is not less than
the difference between the “with-” and “without-” dependent BAH-II rates applicable to the member’s
grade. The amount of support required to retain or receive BAH on behalf of a dependent does not
necessarily mean that such amount is adequate to meet the policy of the Service concerned as to what
constitutes adequate support in the absence of a legal separation agreement or court order.

Measure Man
06-23-2009, 01:59 PM
Perhaps the issue then is if they qualify to be listed as his dependents.

They are his children. No doubt they are entered in DEERS and have ID cards.

For example, I have a 20 year old daughter...she is on her own, I no longer support her...she is still a dependent until age 23 I believe.

Although she isn't my sole dependent, so I don't nec. get BAH for her.

Measure Man
06-23-2009, 02:32 PM
Unless I'm reading the reg wrong, I think you're wrong:

http://www.defenselink.mil/comptroller/fmr/07a/07aarch/07A26j.pdf



According to this the member SHALL pay support as a requisite to receiving with dependant rate, even in the absence of a court order


260406. Support of Dependents
A. Proof of Support. The statutory purpose of BAH on behalf of a dependent is
to at least partially reimburse members for the expense of providing private quarters for their
dependents when government quarters are not furnished. The entitlement is not to pay BAH on behalf
of a dependent as a bonus merely due to the technical status of being married or a parent. Proof of
support of a lawful spouse or unmarried, minor, legitimate child of a member generally is not required.
When evidence (e.g., special investigation reports; record reviews; fraud, waste and abuse complaints;
sworn testimony of individuals; statement by member) or complaints from dependents of nonsupport or
inadequate support of dependents are received, however, proof of adequate support as stated in
subparagraph 260406.E shall be required.


According to this the member SHALL pay support as a requisite to receiving with dependant rate, even in the absence of a court order.

That's not what it says Crusty. "It says IN THE ABSENCE of a court order, the member shall...."

Perhaps...he has a court order that does not require him to pay anything. Maybe his ex- makes more than he does...? Or she agreed to it to make the divorce easier.




E. Adequate Support. If the support requirements are not established by court
order or legal separation agreement, a member shall provide support in an amount that is not less than
the difference between the “with-” and “without-” dependent BAH-II rates applicable to the member’s
grade. The amount of support required to retain or receive BAH on behalf of a dependent does not
necessarily mean that such amount is adequate to meet the policy of the Service concerned as to what
constitutes adequate support in the absence of a legal separation agreement or court order.

So...his ex- can probably complain if she either doesn't have a court order or he isn't meeting the court order they have....but either way, I don't think it's fraud.

imported_Seasons
06-23-2009, 02:38 PM
They are his children. No doubt they are entered in DEERS and have ID cards.

For example, I have a 20 year old daughter...she is on her own, I no longer support her...she is still a dependent until age 23 I believe.

Although she isn't my sole dependent, so I don't nec. get BAH for her.

I think Crusty's reg was what I was looking for. My understanding of it was always that you only get dependent rates if they are actually, in a way, dependent on you.

Also, the age at which point you must annually reinstate dependency with a valid reason for it is 21, I believe. The allowance of time is for college students. The cut off may be 23 though, but starting at 21 its no longer an automatic thing, and before that even if the child is removed from one's care and not supported in some way the dependency status should vanish.

imported_kvnhlstd
06-25-2009, 09:18 PM
Kind of reminds me of an old case I investigated years ago...

Had a guy come in and complain the his soon to be ex-wife was committing fraud beacause she was divorcing him and going after half of his retirement. Now the rest of the story.

Guy mets girl and lives with girl for about a year. Guy gets orders overseas, Girl had become accustomed to shopping at the BX and Commisary and hanging out at the club with Guy. Guy decides if we marry I can PCS and get BAH and live the high life without a dependent around, Girl decides "I liked the idea of having a id card with no husband". They marry and live apart for the better part of 13 years, he never supported her but kept her on DEERS enrollment and flew back to see his family occasionally as well as get her id card renewed. Guy finally decides to retire and tells girl/wife that the id card will be getting cut off after the retirement, she had a better plan, she filed for divorce and 1/2 of his retirement pay... they had been legally married under Nevada law for almost 14 years. Yea... we had a great time investigating this case, proved fraud because they were so pissed at each other that they both told us that they married with the only intention of getting the id card and the extra money and had only lived under the same roof for two weeks.

fufu
06-25-2009, 11:55 PM
Exactly...allowing potential fraud to go unreported is so much more noble.



Single E6 has 2 children. Gets BAH at the w/dependant rate but both kids live fulltime w/non military custodial parent. Service member pays no child support at all. Situation has been going on for 5 yrs. IMO this is dishonest at best and fraud at worst. The kids seldom even visit.

Lots of information there.:rolleyes: And, still no proof. You can hurt people lives or careers with false accusations. We have 3 lines of information. Maybe the poster is seldom even home when the kids seldomly visit....?? Either way, unless there is significant proof, once again I say butt out.

If I remember correctly, the member only has to have the kids 6 months and 1 day a year to draw full BAH. So, this poster could have only noticed the 6 months the kid were with the other parent.

And, this is why I don't live on base.....too many nosy neighbors.

fufu
06-26-2009, 05:30 AM
This is FWA:

http://www.militarytimes.com/news/2009/06/marine_osprey_afghanistan_062309/

Shrike
06-26-2009, 05:54 AM
This is FWA:

http://www.militarytimes.com/news/2009/06/marine_osprey_afghanistan_062309/

Large-scale FWA is how government organizations run, from the top down.

We're only concerned with small-scale FWA, like a history of too many packages of Post-It Notes being ordered by one workcenter. THAT'S where the true waste of taxpayer dollars occurs.


:eek:
:rolleyes:
;)

Cynicism...it's not just for breakfast anymore.

Measure Man
06-26-2009, 06:11 PM
If I remember correctly, the member only has to have the kids 6 months and 1 day a year to draw full BAH. .

Nah...the 6 mos and 1 day thing is to be able to live in base housing.

You get dependent BAH even if you never see your kids.

fufu
06-26-2009, 09:24 PM
Copy.......

Kronus
06-26-2009, 10:02 PM
All servicemembers have a duty to report fraud, waste, and abuse.


Really,well I guess it should be mentioned the 30 worthless NightStalker II flashlights we have in our armory that cost 7 grand a piece, have to be charged for 24 hours to get 4 hours use, and are 18 inches long and as big around as the fat end of a baseball bat...but hey, they arent even as bright as my handheld surefire, they come a really cool, and useful, sling--in case you EVER decided to draw one, much less use it--but, on brightside, the contract most likely rode in on some retired Colonel's coattails (padding his pocket no doubt) like so much of the other garbage MARCORSYSCOM or whoever decides is vital to the execution of of the Marine Corps mission.

Just my thoughts on "fraud, waste, and abuse."

imported_Seasons
06-26-2009, 10:15 PM
Really,well I guess it should be mentioned the 30 worthless NightStalker II flashlights we have in our armory that cost 7 grand a piece, have to be charged for 24 hours to get 4 hours use, and are 18 inches long and as big around as the fat end of a baseball bat...but hey, they arent even as bright as my handheld surefire, they come a really cool, and useful, sling--in case you EVER decided to draw one, much less use it--but, on brightside, the contract most likely rode in on some retired Colonel's coattails (padding his pocket no doubt) like so much of the other garbage MARCORSYSCOM or whoever decides is vital to the execution of of the Marine Corps mission.

Just my thoughts on "fraud, waste, and abuse."

Sooooo....report it if you think its such waste.

Kronus
06-26-2009, 10:22 PM
Obviously...but who would I report it to...My CO knows its there, as does the Battalion I am sure, Division, etc...I really think that the ONLY people who would care would be the American Taxpayer...but I'll tell you, the American Taxpayer would care a whole lot more about worthless equipment appropriations I think than they would about BAH fraud...most civilians don't believe we get paid enough anyway. Now, does that make it right, no it doesn't...I guess, it is what it is...

imported_Seasons
06-26-2009, 10:54 PM
Obviously...but who would I report it to...My CO knows its there, as does the Battalion I am sure, Division, etc...I really think that the ONLY people who would care would be the American Taxpayer...but I'll tell you, the American Taxpayer would care a whole lot more about worthless equipment appropriations I think than they would about BAH fraud...most civilians don't believe we get paid enough anyway. Now, does that make it right, no it doesn't...I guess, it is what it is...

Your local OSI, NCIS, or CID office. Believe it or not, FWA is their job to investigate.

Born Invincible
11-14-2009, 11:07 PM
Really,well I guess it should be mentioned the 30 worthless NightStalker II flashlights we have in our armory that cost 7 grand a piece, have to be charged for 24 hours to get 4 hours use, and are 18 inches long and as big around as the fat end of a baseball bat...but hey, they arent even as bright as my handheld surefire, they come a really cool, and useful, sling--in case you EVER decided to draw one, much less use it--but, on brightside, the contract most likely rode in on some retired Colonel's coattails (padding his pocket no doubt) like so much of the other garbage MARCORSYSCOM or whoever decides is vital to the execution of of the Marine Corps mission.

Just my thoughts on "fraud, waste, and abuse."

My unit had that same idiotic piece of gear back in 2006/2007 and they all mysteriously disappeared. Those flashlights suck.

I want to know how the person writing this thread was privy to this info. sounds like a disgruntled ex to me. i want more info... i really just like gossip and being nosey but i still want more. lol

garhkal
11-15-2009, 03:47 PM
Kind of reminds me of an old case I investigated years ago...

Had a guy come in and complain the his soon to be ex-wife was committing fraud beacause she was divorcing him and going after half of his retirement. Now the rest of the story.

Guy mets girl and lives with girl for about a year. Guy gets orders overseas, Girl had become accustomed to shopping at the BX and Commisary and hanging out at the club with Guy. Guy decides if we marry I can PCS and get BAH and live the high life without a dependent around, Girl decides "I liked the idea of having a id card with no husband". They marry and live apart for the better part of 13 years, he never supported her but kept her on DEERS enrollment and flew back to see his family occasionally as well as get her id card renewed. Guy finally decides to retire and tells girl/wife that the id card will be getting cut off after the retirement, she had a better plan, she filed for divorce and 1/2 of his retirement pay... they had been legally married under Nevada law for almost 14 years. Yea... we had a great time investigating this case, proved fraud because they were so pissed at each other that they both told us that they married with the only intention of getting the id card and the extra money and had only lived under the same roof for two weeks.

So what happened to the two of them/

Pueblo
11-21-2009, 09:50 PM
Unless I'm reading the reg wrong, I think you're wrong:

http://www.defenselink.mil/comptroller/fmr/07a/07aarch/07A26j.pdf



According to this the member SHALL pay support as a requisite to receiving with dependant rate, even in the absence of a court order

Crusty according to that definition, there is nobody to enforce that but the spouse who should be receiving it. If I were that E-6, I'd save it for a college fund. The reg also doesn't say the money has to go the the ex, just that it needs to go towards "support"

firenomore
11-30-2009, 01:24 PM
How do you know the ins and out of this person's relationship with their kids? If you have kids, then you get dependent rate BAH/OHA. The A.F. did this to cut back on the BAH Diff payments a while ago. There is no fraud here with this person getting with dependent BAH. Sounds like a bunch of hating though. Why dont you ask the person about their situation instead of us? They may not have a court order to pay child support. The individual may be socking away money into a savings account or college fund, or maybe even gold. Stop plotting and ask them. If its truely fraud, then do what you feel necessary. I say to mind your own damn business.

HorsesOfProgress
06-30-2013, 06:20 PM
Resurrecting an old thread because, as a "probationary user", I cannot create a new one. I have a friend who is married with 2 kids to a guy enlisted in the Navy. He lives on base in another state but receives BAH for the house they are purchasing back home. Their marriage has recently become rocky and, due to this, for the past several months he has been refusing to pay the mortgage and is pocketing the money. Does she have any options to ensure the the money he is given for BAH is used for his children's housing?

Pullinteeth
07-01-2013, 06:51 PM
Resurrecting an old thread because, as a "probationary user", I cannot create a new one. I have a friend who is married with 2 kids to a guy enlisted in the Navy. He lives on base in another state but receives BAH for the house they are purchasing back home. Their marriage has recently become rocky and, due to this, for the past several months he has been refusing to pay the mortgage and is pocketing the money. Does she have any options to ensure the the money he is given for BAH is used for his children's housing?

Doubt it. It is more likely than not that he lives in gov contracted housing and they take his BAH so he couldn't give it to her even if he wanted to....

garhkal
07-01-2013, 07:56 PM
Resurrecting an old thread because, as a "probationary user", I cannot create a new one. I have a friend who is married with 2 kids to a guy enlisted in the Navy. He lives on base in another state but receives BAH for the house they are purchasing back home. Their marriage has recently become rocky and, due to this, for the past several months he has been refusing to pay the mortgage and is pocketing the money. Does she have any options to ensure the the money he is given for BAH is used for his children's housing?

If he is still legally married, then she should be able to speak to the command about him not meeting his financial requirements..

garhkal
07-02-2013, 04:49 AM
As a q to everyone. For those saying that living 'together' just to claim benefits of being married but not actually BEING married is IYO not fraud, what exactly do you consider fraud?

Pullinteeth
07-02-2013, 01:35 PM
If he is still legally married, then she should be able to speak to the command about him not meeting his financial requirements..

It might be a hard sell if they voluntarily took on a mortgage while living in gov contracted housing. He is still providing a house even if they are choosing to live elsewhere...