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CommunityEditor
01-17-2007, 03:21 PM
National Guard and Reservists, listen up.

Recently released surveys show that civilian employers say they are less inclined to hire members of the National Guard and Reserve due to the increasing likelihood that they will be mobilized and deploy in support of the war In Iraq.

Tell us, is this true? Are civilian employers showing bias against Guard and Reservists? Or have you not noticed any difference?

What has your experience been?

The Universal Curmudgeon_guest
01-18-2007, 01:24 PM
Recently released surveys show that civilian employers say they are less inclined to hire members of the National Guard and Reserve due to the increasing likelihood that they will be mobilized and deploy in support of the war In Iraq.

Tell us, is this true? Are civilian employers showing bias against Guard and Reservists?I presume that what you actually mean is "Are civilian employers refusing to hire members of the National Guard and/or Reserves with any greater frequency than they are refusing to hire people who aren't - but who have the same likelihood of not showing up for work for extended periods of time (and who could be replaced if they didn't?"

If I were hiring and had to pick between equally qualified applicants where

[a] was a member of the NatG/R and was 40% likely not to come to work
[b] wasn't a member of the NatG/R and was 40% likely not to come to work
[c] was a member of the NatG/R and was 60% likely not to come to work
[d] wasn't a member of the NatG/R and was 60% likely not to come to work
[e] was a member of the NatG/R and was 10% likely not to come to work
and
[f] wasn't a member of the NatG/R and was 10% likely not to come to work

I'd hire in the following sequence [e], [f], [a], [b], [c], and [d] - as would 99% of all employers.

However, in the pairings "[a]/[b]", "[c]/[d]", and "[e]/[f]", if there were a difference in qualification, I'd go for the most qualified applicant - as would 99% of all employers.
:cheers:

jbanna_guest
01-19-2007, 06:41 PM
What about the question:

Would you hire a reservist who is the most qualified person, if he/she promises to return if activated?

I have encountered several situations where my job interviews went great, every qualification was met, the personality fit was there, I stated that I would not be a volunteer for any deployments, and would come back for sure if involuntarily activated, and etc., but found out I was the "second choice". Of course, each interviewer had many specific questions about my reserve commitments. While I cannot prove that my reserve status cost me these jobs, I am highly suspicious. So, the results of this new poll conducted by Workforce Management do not surprise me, even though the question was somewhat loaded and the survey completed in a non-scientific manner.

rjmcnary
01-19-2007, 11:37 PM
My situation does not deal with whether or not an employer would hire me due to my Reserve status, as I have worked in the same field, for the same employer, but in different departments, for nearly 20 years and my job is protected by Civil Service regulations. What I'm finding is that transfers to desirable assignments and promotions are also affected by one's Reserve status. I'm in the USCGR and am 3 1/2 months into my 3rd activation since 9/11 (the first was in 2003 for 6 months and the second was in 2005 for 3 months). This is projected to run until Sept of this year. I have, on several occasions, applied for transfers to desired assignments, only to be told that I don't have enough experience. It's kinda hard to believe that one since I've been doing the same job for 18 1/2 years, with my evaluations being either "Very Good" or "Outstanding."

On the flip side, I will say they are very good about maintaining my pay and benefits while I'm gone. I receive the difference between my military pay and civilian pay and all benefits (i.e health insurance, vacation/sick time accrual, pension contributions) are maintained. This is the one bright spot, since I know that once I return to civilian employment, I'll likely end up with an assignment a monkey could do well at. :wall:

JRT00888
01-21-2007, 12:44 PM
can tell you personally that I have (and continue) to experience my same civilian employer of almost 10 years having great issues with regards to promotions. I was originally deployed from Oct 2001 to Sep 2002 for Homeland Defense (Operation Noble Eagle), returned to my civilian employer...re-learned all operational systems, etc. A promotional opportunity came up of which I was the only rational/established candidate that completely fit the profile out of 27 associates. Upon going through 4 interviews, my employer rounded it down to "the top 3" candidates; whereas one of the candidates was disqualified, which left myself and one other. Approximately 2 weeks before a final decision was to be made, I was activated to proceed to the desert March 2003....within the next 3 days, I was on a plane. About a month later, I found out that they went with the only individual left. When I had the chance, I spoke to the JAG's office and they told me there was nothing I can do until I get off of active duty. October 2004 I was finally released from duty and returned to my civilian employer and spoke to my director & Human Resources about the situation. They basically were biased the whole time and stated: "Well, what were we supposed to do, the other candidate was the only one left?" (Note-this job was about $20,000 more a year than what I was making). Needless to say, they back-tracked and stated: "let's see what kind of change we can find and that we can appreciated you didn't bring any outside entity into this situation." Within 2 weeks, I was given a measley 2% raise....what a slap in the face!!!! I contacted the ESGR, was assigned an ombudsman (who eventually stated this is the worst employer he had to deal with in the 12 yrs he has been doing this). It eventually went to the Dept of Labor (2 months later), where as my employer buried them in 12" thick worth of paperwork that got them off the main reason why we even doing this; after 5 months it is currently up to the US Attorney General's office. The DOL has told me that this is the toughest thing to prove of an employer, but I am/will not give up. If it weren't for the people like me (and you), these employers would not have a business to operate). All in all, it has been a very bitter experience and I am continued to be asked about "in-depth" questions about my military time/experiences, length of deployments, how often, etc. and it boils down to he said/she said.....which is obviously ultimately zero protection for the Reserve or Guard member! Good luck if you have experienced any of this.

SGTB74_guest
01-24-2007, 07:11 AM
I am a Sergeant with 10 years of active duty. I left the Army in 2003 and since then have been working as a union laborer doing highway construction. In 2006, I reenlisted with the PA Guard. The unit I am in is transforming to a STRYKER Brigade and our current drill schedule is intense, with all of the NET training required. There have been months, where I have had to go to "Drill" for two and three weekends. Personally, I love it because I love wearing the uniform. But when I have bills to pay and a family to support it makes it hard. I only get paid by the hour. If I miss a day for drill, I do not get paid. And being a union laborer, I make really good money. Anyway, with the current drill schedule and all the NET training going on. I would miss at least 5-7 days of work easy. My employer was upset over this and in November, I was laid off due to "lack of work." After talking with people around the company it was really due to my drill schedule. I talked to union representatives and was told that there is nothing that can be done. I was also told that with my future drill schedule, over the next year, it would be hard to place me in another job. Why would an employer hire me on to do a job, when I will have an Annual Training period that will last at least 30 days, a drill schedule and NET training that will require me to miss at least two weekneds a month, and the very real possibility of a deployment in the very near future? I see both sides of the situation. But I am in stuck between a rock and a hard place. You try raising a family on unemployment pay! It sucks.

CW3_guest
01-24-2007, 04:56 PM
I worked in a company that fully supported my involvement in the National Guard. The division I worked in had 3 employees. But when I was deployed, 1/3 of their workforce disappeared for 12-18 months. (At the time, I didn't know for sure how long I was actually going to be deployed.) So this company had a tough decision to make. Do we hire another employee, OSHA train them (HAZWOPPER 40 hours) MSHA train them (40 hours), knowing that it is only a temporary position? Looking back, this is what the company HAD to do, and this employee couldn't really "work" for over three weeks until the training was completed. What a financial burden! Was the temporary employee a member of the National Guard? No they weren't. Then when I did return, I needed to take the OSHA and MSHA refresher courses BEFORE I could do any work!! This makes for a very easy decision for me to stay a member of the National Guard. I've put in my military time of over 20 years. It's now my time to support my employer, and not the employer supporting the guard.

douglas.j.james_guest
01-25-2007, 04:06 PM
In July 2006 I returned from 16 months of military duty, 12 of them in Afghanistan. My employer complied with the law, but not the spirit of the law. I have a job with the same salary level, but was transferred back to a position that I started in seven years ago. Further, the position is a dead-end with no opportunity of advancement.

I have spoken with management and career advisers about what skills I need to add to improve my skills for advancement, with no response. I am retiring from the National Guard to try to salvage my career as a systems programmer.

There is no overt discrimination, but I have definitely been made to feel unwelcome. I am being punished for my service.

Skweegee_guest
01-25-2007, 05:30 PM
As the Devil's Advocate, why wouldn't civilian employers shy away from hiring guardsmen and reservists? Once you put aside all the talk about patriotism and supporting the troops, the employer is stuck with a vacancy when the person leaves. Maybe he can hire a temp, but the temp pool may have a limited number of qualified persons willing to take the job on a temp basis until the reservist returns. If he hires a permanent replacement, he will likely have to let someone go when the reservist returns. By not hiring a reservist in the first place, he can avoid these hassles.

jhawk_guest
01-26-2007, 01:06 PM
It is my experience in the NYPD that they do not enjoy military members of the service. There are so many incidents whereas the member either going away or returning ended up on the short end of the stick; not just to OEF/OIf but to guard/reserve duties.

There are several units within the NYPD that do not want military members when transfer requests to specfic units come in to them. There was one federal case where a NYPD member who is the military and was denied a position within the NYPD Aviation unit; he ended up winning but the judge's instructions to the jury regarding the law in USERRA did not do much for closure to the case. With that type of ruling, it will not force the NYPD to make changes.

How can we make changes?

super123_guest
01-26-2007, 03:49 PM
In my experience with the LAPD, if you are in the Reserves, try not to mention it too often or it is the kiss of death to your career. Everyone likes vets, however police are "at war" 24/7 and need people too. Your work should stand on it's own without telling war stories as an ace in the hole. However if you are mobilized you have to make up for lost time when you get back.

This last year the LAPD won the ESGR freedom award for supporting Reservists. They matched pay, refund medical insurance premiums and have
even have a full time Officer dedicated to helping Deployed Reservists.

If you are a Marine, you have a home at the LAPD. The problem is when you do get back from your deployment, you have to compete with Officers (civilian types) who never left. You need to put yourself out there again build your reputation and try to get promoted. When it comes to promoting, I have been told behind closed doors to "keep the military" out of your interview and you will get promoted a little easier.

"Keeping the military" out of an interview after you have been gone for 2 years leaves you discussing accomplishments you made 2 years ago in comparison to your peers who have moved on to specialized units.

The only solution I can see is to suck it up, be squared away, get promoted and help other Reservists once you get higher up the foodchain. If you are not in a civil service job, you are subject an employer who would rather eat the attorney fees after they let one go then keep a Reservist.

I am not sure If anymore laws can help since they place the burden on the indivdual who doesn't want to make waves and is generally a team player.
This is what some active duty folks don't understand.

Wait until it's your turn to get out, your vet status will only mean something to vets on the job so please have a little more patience with Reservists.
Good luck

gabby1369@sbcglobal.net_guest
01-26-2007, 05:12 PM
I am a Vietnam Veteran but I have seen first hand in two cases here in Ohio. One was linked to a suicide of the service member in the Columbus Health Department. Another happened in Canton, Ohio. It is the reason why I have done the research into the state laws that run concurrently with USERRA. I wanted to know just how states help or hinder service members in reemployment rights. The matter is a very complicated issue some states like New York, Illinois, Washington and Maine are doing well. I have posted all the state laws on one website http://www.userraproject.org

ccsanderson
01-26-2007, 10:18 PM
Yes. I was told directly by a member of the board of directors of the company that hired me to lead it not to mention my reserve status in interviews. After I was hired, I brought it up to plan for future possible mobilizations. I was told that the board would like to fire me, and I responded that USERRA made that impossible and requested a meeting with my ESGR representative to iron things out. At the next board meeting, the board members voted to dissolve the company. It was an arts company, and I am a successful arts professional who happens to spend time defending the freedoms that the arts must have to thrive... I can assure you that anti-reservist sentiment runs high in at least one former nfp company's corporate stewards. Don't worry about me, though, "adapt and overcome," I'm on to a bigger and better gig, and about to deploy with the new company's blessing and support. "Sweet are the uses of adversity" - William Shakespeare

17760704usa_guest
02-07-2007, 08:36 AM
I'm in the AGR program in Indiana and have applied for numerous part-time evening postion around central Indiana. ALL of these positions I would be more than qualified for, yet I haven't received one single phone call for an interview. I have a job, but for our Brother and Sister Soldiers that don't, that are traditional Soldiers, what can be done? We can't make employers hire us, we can't lie on applications, will our State and Federal Governments help us out, who knows. If this trend continues something will have to be done. Maybe anyone feeling the effects of this trend should start contacting their Congressman, if we speak up, someone will eventually hear us. STRENGTH IN NUMBERS!

gabby1369@sbcglobal.net_guest
02-07-2007, 01:04 PM
My State Senator John Boccieri has just returned from Washington, DC where he made a presentation on Veteran Issues. This is what was reported in the local newspaper here.

[QUOTE]In the next year, Boccieri added, the council will look into problems in the Uniformed Services Employment and Re-employment Rights Act. USERRA was passed to prohibit discrimination against persons because of their service in the Armed Forces. USERRA prohibits an employer from denying any benefit of employment on the basis of an individual's membership or application to the military. It is also designed to protect the rights of veterans, reservists and National Guard members to reclaim their civilian employment after being absent due to military service or training.

"The majority of time we see employers who honor veterans and their service," Boccieri said. However, on occasion we've seen gross violations of this federal law which has loopholes large enough to fly a C-130 through." Boccieri is a major and C-130 pilot in the Air Force Reserve.

Boccieri fears that changes in the service of reservists and National Guard will see USERRA violations increase.

In the past, a reservist or National Guard member could only be called to active duty two out of five years. "Now it is unlimited, Congress has basically federalized the reservists and National Guard."

The Guard and Reserve troops have to speak up when they are not on duty and tell their side of the story. You are correct. I am gearing up my website http://www.userraproject.org to hear from you Guard and Reserve Troops and I really do want to hear from you Guard and Reservist. I am trying to get good state law past here in Ohio and in other states. The only way that is going to happen is if the Guard and Reserve know about their rights under USERRA and speak up by writing legislators. They should read the GAO Report on USERRA that came out.

Job Discimination is illegal! :mad2: This angers me the most. Those who join up and who are part-time soldiers should have the respect and honor of the community but it seems that it is not so to some employers. I am reminded of an old chestnut saying that could be revised, remember now that I am a combat Vietnam Veteran and I have the highest respect for you all. .:thumbup:I say the following with tongue in cheek
The philosophy of some of the employers seems to be that the all the Guardsmen has to say, "Please don't tell them that I am a Guardsmen or a Reservist when I am not here, my other job is a piano player in a house of ill repute." You will get hired! :eek:

SSGChester_guest
02-10-2007, 08:42 PM
Yes there is. Been there done that. Have experienced it first hand. Now own my own business. We're a small business. At times I've offered work to Reservists/Guardmen. Now I won't. Even though I'm a vet, and been in the Reserves and Guard and been deployed twice.
At one time people got deployed for at the most 279 days. Not anymore. Sure if a person works for the Gov or a big contractor with Gov contracts you're better off.
Most employers have never served in the military nor do they want too nor will they let their children.
Sure they wear an American flag on their coat. Sure they say, "Thanks", and they'll go see a parade. But that is where it ends.
Sure, there are "laws" to protect you, but unless you have millions in the bank, don't bet the ranch on getting justice.
So, if you are a Reservist or Guardsmen I suggest this. When you go talk to your boss or your supervisor or human resouce people, take a small tape recorder with you. Record your conversations with them. Yes, sadly keep the recorder with you at all times. Don't let them know you have it.
Keep them recordings in a safe place. So, if you are deployed, and you loose your job or or not promoted you have real evidence to fall back on.
Yup, sounds dirty, but let me tell you, if they have the potential to treat you badly and you don't have a big fat bank account to hire a lawyer, then you'd better CYA.

Adak1957_guest
02-21-2007, 05:10 PM
Beginning in 1990 with the first Gulf War, there has been increasing reluctance for civilian employers to hire NG/Reservists. Throughout the 1990's with Bosnia, etc, civilian employers became more and more hostile to NG/Reservists. With the first Gulf War, many employers kept called up employees with full benefits, even supplementing their military pay to equal their civilian pay. That's all gone now. And it will only get worse for NG/Reservists, many of whom are going back to Iraq for a second tour. This includes Reservists working for large corporations as well as small firms...even Defense Industry contractors.

gabby1369@sbcglobal.net_guest
02-21-2007, 05:29 PM
I was talking to a few JAG officers the other day and they told me that there is a a fear of reprisal from the employer to the service member.Since the Guard and Reserve have been federalized many service members have returned home to no jobs even though they had one when they left. Many states have good law but other states do not. In Ohio where I am from, I have the opportunity to change law. I need help from those who have been damaged by coming home to no job. Many fear that if they speak up that another employer will not hire them or if they say something now the negotiation with their employer is going to fail. It is a catch 22 for these warriors.

I need you people to speak up so that law can be tighten up. If you remain silent you will loose. http://www.userraproject.org

Skweegee_guest
02-21-2007, 05:38 PM
Even though I am a guardsman, I can't help but feel sorry for many employers who have to deal with this issue. The original Soldiers' and Sailors' Civil Relief Act was passed during World War I, reenacted during World War II, modified during Operation Desert Storm, and then replaced with the Servicemembers Civil Relief Act in 2003. With regards to the employment aspect, the initial plan was to cover servicemen who went off to war one time for an extended length. Employers could deal with that, especially when faced with World Wars 1 and 2.

But now we have multiple deployments, shorter lengths, coverage for drill weekends, etc. We have numerous instances (at least in the Air NG and Air Reserve) where imany individuals are not volunteering to deploy out of patriotism. They are volunteering for multiple short AEF tours of 45-120 days to make tax-free money and earn retirement points. And don't even think of arguing this point. The ANG and Reserves deploy most of their aircraft capability and most support using volunteers for either a full 120-day AEF period or broken down into 45-day or shorter rotation periods. I have done this several times, many within my wing have and continue to do it, and conversations with other guardsmen from other states indicate that many do this. Orders will say "involuntary mobilization", but the method for most is that they volunteer to be involuntarily mobilized.

I know that the majority of Army Guardsmen and reservists (and some Air) need these federal protections. They are not volunteering and will actually be in direct harm's way. But maybe employer resistance to National Guard service has a benefit by allowing civilians another avenue to protest military actions that do not have the support of the American people.

gabby1369@sbcglobal.net_guest
02-21-2007, 05:50 PM
If your employer wanted you to waiver your USERRA rights in order to obtain the good job would you take it. If your were about to be deployed, walked in and told your employer this and was summarily fired. How would you feel. These are the War Stories I here at home. We have a standard of taking care of our service members. I could go on. There are good employers but there are bad ones too! The only way to help the service members is to speak up.

Skweegee_guest
02-21-2007, 06:27 PM
If your employer wanted you to waiver your USERRA rights in order to obtain the good job would you take it. If your were about to be deployed, walked in and told your employer this and was summarily fired. How would you feel. These are the War Stories I here at home. We have a standard of taking care of our service members. I could go on. There are good employers but there are bad ones too! The only way to help the service members is to speak up.

Not sure if you are responding to my post but I agree with you. I guess the problem is that there are just about no limits to current law and many employers are being seriously hurt by the current use of the Guard and Reserve. Without any limits, what happens when a local police force is predominately made up of soldiers from the local unit that is mobilized? This is not unheard of as both the police and military recruit from the same pool. In this situation, why shouldn't there be limits to how many police officers can be in the Guard or Reserve to ensure that the entire force is not decimated when a unit is mobilized? If this happens, why not also protect the businessman whose business will suffer when he loses many of his employees. Maybe we should all be supportive and willing to bite the bullet to protect this nation. And we probably would if we only used the Guard and Reserve for wars that most would support as directly protecting this country. But when the Guard and Reserve is being used for conflicts that appear to have little bearing on this nation, then it is hard to muster that kind of support.

gabby1369@sbcglobal.net_guest
02-21-2007, 08:36 PM
I was replying to your post and yes there always has to be a balance but that is where good law comes in. Good law can only be accomplished if those who are involved speak up. Since 1994 the USERRA Law has attempted the protect the service members. This present conflict, Bosnia and Gulf I has really put a strain of the Guard and Reserve. We need to protect the Guard and Reserve giving both good retention and recruitment. Having the fact that you could loose your outside job because you are a member of it is not a good idea.

leftbehind_guest
03-16-2007, 04:26 PM
Not sure if you are responding to my post but I agree with you. I guess the problem is that there are just about no limits to current law and many employers are being seriously hurt by the current use of the Guard and Reserve. Without any limits, what happens when a local police force is predominately made up of soldiers from the local unit that is mobilized? This is not unheard of as both the police and military recruit from the same pool. In this situation, why shouldn't there be limits to how many police officers can be in the Guard or Reserve to ensure that the entire force is not decimated when a unit is mobilized? If this happens, why not also protect the businessman whose business will suffer when he loses many of his employees. Maybe we should all be supportive and willing to bite the bullet to protect this nation. And we probably would if we only used the Guard and Reserve for wars that most would support as directly protecting this country. But when the Guard and Reserve is being used for conflicts that appear to have little bearing on this nation, then it is hard to muster that kind of support.

Wow, did you listen to yourself when you put this down? If a person is in the Guard, he/she has no control as to where he/she will be deployed. An employer can't say, "If you fight for our country here, you'll have your job when you return, but if you fight Bush's political and selfish war in Iraq, I'll have to replace you.". Does that make sense to you?

Furthermore, the chances of "many" employees leaving for the same deployment would not happen unless it is in an area where it is a large employer and the majority of the population is enlisted in the Guard. In that case, the corporation would be large enough to buck up and support the employees who had to go.

The issue of the police force suffering may be a different matter since it is to protect citizens from harm, not to line someone's pockets.

I'm sorry, but there is no good excuse to not hold a job for someone deployed. I would consider it an honor if I were an employer.

gabby1369@sbcglobal.net_guest
03-16-2007, 05:18 PM
In the March 10th article in the Cleveland Plain Dearler "Jobs: Casualties of War" by Brian Albrecht talked about this subject.
http://www.cleveland.com/plaindealer/stories/index.ssf?/base/cuyahoga/1173520054150840.xml&coll=2

I have had the honor to chat to two more service members who are going over to Iraq. Both are SeaBees. One notified his employer of his impending deployment and the employer gave him a going away gift by terminating him within two hours of notification. :mad:

The other was a school teacher within an Ohio School System that because of his deployment will not be getting his tenure yet there is a Warrior to Teacher Program in Ohio. The Petty Officer 1st Class is 1 or two credits away from his Masters degree.

http://www.userraproject.org

tenetetcetera
03-20-2008, 10:25 AM
I have been in the Army National Guard for six years with one deployment under my bellt. I am currently finishing up the ROTC program at the college I attend - and I certainly do appreciate the benefits I have recieved from Uncle Sam for this cause.

However, I am currently trying to find post-college employment in the private sector, and it is absolutely ridiculous. I made the decision to be an Accounting major specifically because the career field is hot. And it is hot for most people - I was the elected president of my university's accounting club, and everyone that I have talked to who worked for me in that organization has found employment, and I've talked to approximately 7 of the 12 who were on the staff during my tenure. I have a 3.5 GPA and heapfuls of more experience than my peers. During interviews (which aren't hard for me to get), I have always been asked how much longer I am contracted to the Guard. After telling one employer "6 years", his reply was "wow, that is a long committment". Now I'm interviewing for positions which start at about $10,000/year less than the standard CPA (Certified Public Accountant) candidates out of college are offered.

I conciously worked harded and volunteered more during college in order to mitigate the hindrance I assumed would happen due to my committment to the ARNG. Clearly, it was either not enough, or it just did not matter.

If the last two jobs I have interviewed for turn me down, I am going to actively seek to be released from the ARNG in order to finish up my non-IRR committment in 3 years instead of 6.

ringjamesa
03-20-2008, 12:41 PM
Not sure if you are responding to my post but I agree with you. I guess the problem is that there are just about no limits to current law and many employers are being seriously hurt by the current use of the Guard and Reserve. Without any limits, what happens when a local police force is predominately made up of soldiers from the local unit that is mobilized? This is not unheard of as both the police and military recruit from the same pool. In this situation, why shouldn't there be limits to how many police officers can be in the Guard or Reserve to ensure that the entire force is not decimated when a unit is mobilized? If this happens, why not also protect the businessman whose business will suffer when he loses many of his employees. Maybe we should all be supportive and willing to bite the bullet to protect this nation. And we probably would if we only used the Guard and Reserve for wars that most would support as directly protecting this country. But when the Guard and Reserve is being used for conflicts that appear to have little bearing on this nation, then it is hard to muster that kind of support.

Actually, there are limits. There are limits on how long you are covered, documentation you must provide, etc.. Also the Guard isn't covered by the Federal law at all for state activations (most states have state laws to protect thier jobs).

BUSAMASTER
09-30-2008, 05:49 PM
I am a high school teacher when I am not playing AF. I've been activated and volunteered for multiple deployments. I got a lot of resentment from my human resources office upon my first activation, but when the employer figured out that USSERA was going to be in their face, that all but stopped. However, when trying to secure a new teaching position within a different subject area even at the same school, I have met resistance and of course I "know" why. There is not much I can do about it since it would be very hard to prove such, but it is aggravating. It makes me want to keep volunteering for deployments out of spite, especially when the Sec Def has printed on all of my orders that OIF and OEF do not count towards any of the limitations(5 years cumulative time away) placed on reserve service.

bill_fogarty
10-03-2008, 01:47 PM
I am a high school teacher when I am not playing AF. I've been activated and volunteered for multiple deployments. I got a lot of resentment from my human resources office upon my first activation, but when the employer figured out that USSERA was going to be in their face, that all but stopped. However, when trying to secure a new teaching position within a different subject area even at the same school, I have met resistance and of course I "know" why. There is not much I can do about it since it would be very hard to prove such, but it is aggravating. It makes me want to keep volunteering for deployments out of spite, especially when the Sec Def has printed on all of my orders that OIF and OEF do not count towards any of the limitations(5 years cumulative time away) placed on reserve service.

Unfortunately, many more NG and reservists will see what you describe. Especially with the jobs market in the pits, every employer (government, schools, corporations, and especially small businesses) will be scrutinizing very carefully who they hire or who they keep. The core issue is we have a reserve force and a National Guard force which was never intended to be deployed except in a WWII type scenario. What they are doing now is multiple tours to pick up the optemp of Active Duty forces that do not have the manpower available.

Sure you get POTUS or SecDef make some public statements, but it is all smoke n' mirrors. There was no update on the USERRA of any significance to support the change of role of reservists from strategic reserve to operating reserve. And likewise, no actions have been started by Bush or Congress in aligning national policy and regulations with this change in manpower sourcing.

In short, employers are barely staying afloat and will likely not hire a reservist over a non-reservist. Why would I, as a small-business owner, even hire a reservist who will be gone 12 months out of every 3 years? That is an immense cost of retraining and hiring a temp to fill that spot. I can't really blame the employers in this regard.

Until SecDef, Congress, and Administration solves the manpower issues in the military (active and reserve and NG), we will all see more and more reservists and NGs out of work.

As someone who has served both active duty and reserve, here is my advice to reservists and NG:
(1) If you want to keep a career in the military, then it is best join active duty and stay in. Sure, you may deploy a lot, but you already do that with reserve and NG (and get none of the active duty benefits or pension).

(2) If you want to keep a career in the civilian world, then it is bet to cut the ties and get out of military altogether. The bottom line is keeping a reserve career is no longer a viable option for those who want to maintain a civilian career along with raising a family.

Guardsman
11-12-2008, 10:53 PM
I found this topic to be very interesting just liked to say that here in Canada you are more likely to be employed if you are or were a reservist than if you weren't because we are well known to work harder and more efficiently than civis in most cases, even the anti-army separatists here in the Province of Quebec employ us over a fellow separatist because they fear the army for what happened in the early 70's. Is there cases in the States where certain groups feel resentment against the army? (in Canada we had the Mohawk natives but many joined the army and now they are one of the many places soldiers are proud to be, the Quebecois nationalists or separatist feel resentment against the army but fear the army and doesn't act against it though they try their best politically.)

CL Polgen
03-28-2009, 11:59 AM
Really appreciate all this insight, everyone. One question remains, though: what about those who sign up? USERRA says that it protects the employment status of those who join the military as well, but I'm curious what experience anyone has with the practicalities of this. I am ready and willing to join the ARNG but I want to make sure I don't face significant retaliation at work and want to make sure I'm not leaving my employer in the lurch.

What experience does anyone here have with joining the Guard or Reserves while having a civilian job? I'm preparing for ARNG, and attending State OCS thereafter. That's 8-9 weeks away from work, and with goals to be met and constant deadlines that's a big challenge. We just had a mother out on maternity leave for 3 months and while there was absolutely no resentment, it was like an eternity for us.

Any insight would be much appreciated! How have employers reacted to this? How have you handled the initial conversation? Should I have a plan for all of my work goals and tasks, re-organized around my 9 week absence?

former31B
04-06-2009, 08:30 PM
Any insight would be much appreciated! How have employers reacted to this? How have you handled the initial conversation? Should I have a plan for all of my work goals and tasks, re-organized around my 9 week absence?

Having a plan laid out would be a really good start. Still, the white elephant in the room will be what your employer is supposed to do when you deploy for a year.

In your current job part of your intended career? You might want to explain how military service fits in with your career goals and dedication to your employer.

In this economy, I'd hesitate to join the guard/reserve if you already have a job and have no obligation to the military. Unfortunately, military service is not seen as enough of a plus in most employers' book to justify taking the risk of what your current employer will think.

The poster who responded a couple of posts up said it best:

If you want to have a military career, join the active duty; if you want a prosperous civilian career, stay out of the military. The reserves/guard is no longer the place for those who want minimal commitment to the military; it is a very active part of the military structure.

CL Polgen
04-07-2009, 10:41 AM
While I'm disappointed to read this, I'm not surprised. I really can't thank you enough for your candor. That said, I know I still might take the risk of jeopardizing my civilian career (or at least the job) to serve. I really can't imagine not joining the Guard or Reserves. Probably a bull-headed decision, but it feels like its what I'm supposed to do.

As for this job as part of my larger career... absolutely. It is. While I understand our reserve forces have been used in very different ways over the past few years than they were in previous decades, I find it sad and troubling that we have the option, but that there is such a tendency to punish those who choose to serve (even if only part-time). Oh well.

Thanks again for the advice.

RobotChicken
06-06-2013, 01:52 AM
Welcome home solder; WAIT! I need those nail clipper you got before you board...M-16 is ok...